He's a decent writer, his Batman is bad, and his fans are the worst kind of cancer
>>81009865
>his Batman is bad
I can't speak for the "Bat epic " but Batman Gothic is really good
Grant getting to do his own thing, with his own characters is great. Grant taking pre-established characters and being allowed to do whatever he wants only ends badly. I didnt like what he did for X-Men, and I didnt like Batman.
>>81010082
I'm a big fan of Morrison but holy hell sometimes he can take a character and just....go off the fucking deep end with them. I recall him doing shit with Fantastic Four that just didn't sit right.
That being said I absolutely loved All-Star superman. But i'm not a life long superman fan and its one of the few supes stories i really enjoy.
>>81009865
Eh. His run of Batman was very clunky, really - the problem is that Morrisson can't write interesting supervillains. Interesting antagonists, sure - but not supervillains.
I mean, there is a reason why noone has ever used Dr Hurt or Proffesor Pyg after that (well, except Beware The Batman which kept just the visual design and changed everything else about Pyg).
Also subtext of the stories is actually pretty interesting if you want to analyze them - except subtext is probably better done than, well, actual text, actual story. I mean - we've got a brilliant immortal schemer who's a master psychologist specializing in manipulation and shaping people's identities, and last step in his masterplan?
...
Fuck some shit up in Gotham with some Batman villains rejects from Shithole, Mexico and Fuckhole, Australia? Really?
Also, he's the precedent for allowing legacy characters to run around at the same time as the original does, so he's partially responsible for current clusterfuck with two Spider-Men and two Captains America.
>>81010082
>Grant taking pre-established characters and being allowed to do whatever he wants only ends badly.
But it ended great for Animal Man and Doom Patrol.
I disagree. I really enjoyed his Batman and his fans are no worse than any other fans. In fact, I think the complaining about Morrison fans is worse than the actual Morrison fans.
>>81011003
Because they weren't very good in the first place.
So, corollary: Grant taking pre-established characters THAT DON'T NEED CHANGING and being allowed to do whatever he wants only ends badly.
Don't fix what ain't broke.
>>81010966
The fun subtext is picking out the ambiguous fourth world references and parallels.because that's totally what he was doing with the post-FC batman
>>81011026
Nah, most Morrisonfags are pretty damn insufferable, they believe all of his work is immune to criticism and love to fall back on the "you're just too stupid to understand it" line.
>>81011094
I was talking e.g. about concept of "wanting to be Batman", exemplified by Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh and entirety of Return of Bruce Wayne as applied to Bruce. Also Battle for the Cowl, while not written by Morrisson, still strongly deals with this theme as seen by lense of bunch of characters who do exactly that - want to be Batman, THE Batman - and there is an evolution, where it seems that after Bruce comes back, theme changes to wanting to be A Batman - with Dick being one of two characters working as Batman at the same time, and with pretty much entire concept of Batman Incorporated - Morrisson really takes a lot of time disseminating question of "what is Batman?" - a superhero? a symbol? a god? a role one can fill? a marketing brand?
It's probably better suited for literary analysis rather than enjoyable in traditional sense, because ignoring the subtext and concentrating on the actual content, story is generic cliche "They kill Batman, but he was prepared for that, he had a spare life in his utility belt!", just taken to absurd extremes.
>>81010405
>I recall him doing shit with Fantastic Four that just didn't sit right.
You mean Fantastic Four 1234? That was a Marvel Knights book.
>>81011184
The one thing I have a problem understanding about Morrison is why he would bring Quietly onto an ongoing comic knowing about his work speed.
> You guys enjoying Quietly on Batman and Robin
> Well here's Philip Tan
I probably would've enjoyed his Batman run more if I wasn't skipping issues with bad artists all the time
>>81011091
>Because they weren't very good in the first place.
Mugga, I will fight you. Original Doom Patrol was great Silver Age shenanigans.
>>81011026
I mean - it's enjoyable, I'm just tired of seeing him on the lists of "best Batman writers ever!!!". Like, he's probably about as good as Scott Snyder, slightly worse than Alan Grant or Paul Dini - and definitely worse than Denny O'Neil, Jeph Loeb or Chuck Dixon.
I mean - the most iconic story that came out of his run is Battle for the Cowl, and he didn't actually write that. Neither he did Black Mirror, which was written by Snyder, when he was doing Detective Comics when Morrisson was on Batman.
Batman RIP is a good story, but claiming it's the best ever is most likely sign of someone who doesn't read a lot of Batman.
>>81010966
>so he's partially responsible for current clusterfuck with two Spider-Men and two Captains America.
Technically speaking, there is nothing wrong with multiple people using the same codename. Marvel just sucks at the execution, big surprise.
>>81010966
I dunno man his Lex Luthor is GOAT
>>81011501
Okay, I should've specified - CREATING new villains. Using established villains is okay - if they're not female cause Morrisson doesn't seem to know how to write female characters, really.
>>81011501
>his Lex Luthor is GOAT
I'll always prefer a Luthor that doesn't at some point try and physically beat Superman.
>>81011184
Well... the sad thing most of the time it's actually true, and the people that hate on him are kind of pleby and don't understand what they read. I myself don't like some comics from him, but you just know when it's someone that just didn't get it and just want lowest common denominator escapism.
>>81010966
>I mean, there is a reason why noone has ever used Dr Hurt or Proffesor Pyg after that
Dr Hurt has not been used because he isn't really a villain who has much weight as a reoccurring villain. He has no real simple, iconic gimmick that would naturally make him easy to use, he's a mastermind villain which automatically makes him less likely to be used because he only works in stories where he's got some kind of an epic scheme. Just look how little Hugo Strange gets used for the same reason.
Pyg has been used pretty regularly, but his problem is that what made him so fun was the way Grant himself wrote him. Under other writers, he's lost all the creepy subtext that he had when he was talking to Damian in B&R, and just became a Z-list villain in a pig mask.
>>81011418
Loeb and Dixon were shit. You're just randomly throwing names there, just because they were popular.
>>81011576
Grant's Talia is probably the best use of the character in years. She for once was more than a prop used for nostalgia value or plot device to get Bruce out of a jam because she hungers the bat-cock, before going right back to serving her nutjob father.
>>81011418
>I mean - the most iconic story that came out of his run is Battle for the Cowl
WTF are you smoking if you honestly think Battle for the Cowl is his most iconic Batman story?
FINALLY somebody fucking agrees with me about this knob.
All-Star Superman was awesome, but I fucking HATE his Batman run, with a passion.
Shitty half-baked ideas like Damian Wayne, Batman Incorporated, Dr. Hurt, Black Glove, Jezebel Jet, Talia raping Batman, pushing Tim out, all that Final Crisis tie-in bullshit with time travel, Jason is Wingman, etc, etc.
And every fucking Batman thread here becomes a giant cock suck fest for Morrison, like he was the first Batman writer these jerkoffs ever read. Fuck him and his cosmic holistic approach to Bat mythology and his weird dialogue and messy writing style.
Most overrated run of a comic character I've ever had the displeasure to read.
>>81011709
Dude, Grant hates Talia and it's pretty obvious in every way he writes her.
>>81011860
True patrician post. I would like to subscribe to your electronic newsletter, good sir.
>>81011860
>like he was the first Batman writer these jerkoffs ever read
That's because a lot of the time it's true, but it doesn't stop most of them from calling it the best Batman run of all time
>>81011709
Not only is his Talia a joke, but it's a joke on every Morrison fan who insists that he's sooooo careful and meticulous with his research and planning.
>"Yeah, I couldn't remember what happened in that classic story that I'm referencing, so I just made it up as I went along lol!"
>"P.S. Alan Moore is obsessed with rape, but I *NEVER* put rape in my comics! I've gone for 30 years without including any rapes xd xd xd!"
>>81009865
You're right about everything except him being a decent writer.
>>81011977
meme response
I liked Batman Gothic, but his actual run with Batman wasn't that good for me.
>>81011860
>>81011939
I read all the essential batman stories before Morrison, to finally catch up with his run back then... and his run is just THE RUN of Batman... seriously what else is there? apart from the great short, individual stories, there's no other long run that holds up like his, Snyder's maybe
>>81012142
>Snyder's maybe
eeeeeeeeehhhh.
>>81012142
FFS, read the classics. O'Neil, Moench, Dixon, Rucka, Dini.
>>81011301
This. The change was so jarring.
>>81012195
I'd put Alan Grant over Rucka
>>81012228
Whatever. Robbins, Conway, Barr, Grant
Shit, even Wolfman. Well, some of Wolfman.
>>81009865
>>81012195
Moench is goat
>>81012286
>>81012195
Stop embarrassing yourself, those wrote decent story here and there but nothing too memorable or defining.
>Dixon
Jesus
>>81012367
Moench is pretty underappreciated. Especially his Kelley Jones stuff.
>>81012297
Now, whoever wrote that ingenious dialog there was obviously so insightful as to know exactly what the criticism of his own work would ultimately amount to, and preempted it before that writer had even finished the work that would be so criticized.
Wow, the haters must be so infuriated by stuff like that.
>>81012448
He really is. He has some weird ticks, but I just love his stories, especially his collabs with Jones. I just have a soft spot for artists that love a lot of black.
>>81012195
>>81012228
O'Neil I agree with but up to 1990 or thereabouts.
Moench and Dixon's Batman was kind of hit or miss as the years went on. I would still put them on the pulp characters that Dynamite has, though.
Rucka I wasn't too impressed with. Ditto Brubaker. I liked their other work though (and Gotham Central) so maybe it's just their Batman I'm not interested in at all.
Dini is okay but his run was way too short and a little inconsistent.
>>81012286
Alan Grant I'll agree with
Frank Robbins I like as both writer and artist (despite fans getting flustered over his art)
Conway I haven't really read yet
Barr is kind of hit or miss
Haven't read Wolfman
I think I prefer Morrison over half of them but consider Englehart, 70's O'Neil, Dick Sprang-era of Batman (I think Bill Finger and Sheldon Moldoff wrote around this time?), maybe Robbins and Alan Grant better than his.
>>81012380
>>81012448
Moench's run would've been much better if it wasn't for those meddling events.
>>81012380
>Denny O'neil
>not memorable or defining
Morrisonfags everyone
>>81012604
Well, should have said most of them.
>>81009865
Hack Snyder of comics.
>>81012965
Nice try, /tv/ but we know you've never read a comic
>>81012639
Even still
>Moench & Dixon
Knightfall
>Rucka
The good parts of No Man's Land
>Dini
Damn good run overshadowed by Morrison's shit
>>81011091
>pre-established characters THAT DON'T NEED CHANGING
So, nothing?
>>81013406
It got overshadowed for a reason. I was reading it at the same time, and it was just nowhere near as good.
>>81011184
>Nah, most Morrisonfags are pretty damn insufferable, they believe all of his work is immune to criticism and love to fall back on the "you're just too stupid to understand it" line.
I don't know if "all" Morrison fans are like that, but I've definitely encountered the type online. I remember reading a review on CBR or Newsarama of a Morrison comic and the whole review was pretty much the reviewer saying "I don't know where Morrison is going with this, but he's smart, and I'm smart, too, so I'm just assuming this is going to be the best thing ever and if you don't agree with that, then maybe you're just too stupid to read Morrison's comics."
It's pretty funny when someone uses their choice of superhero comics as a yardstick for intelligence.
http://www.tcj.com/flex-mentallo-and-the-morrison-problem/
The experience of reading about Grant Morrison’s comics is frequently more stimulating than actually suffering through the work itself. In undertakings like The Invisibles or 7 Soldiers, Morrison slaps together elaborate sagas that span volumes, centuries, and dimensions, ganglial constructs that weave themselves around grand themes like time, language, identity, and heroism. The elegance with which some brave souls like Douglas Wolk and Marc Singer have untangled and explicated this mess can situate readers at an appealing remove, surveying Morrison’s story-worlds from the kind of extra-temporal, fifth-dimensional vantage point one might expect to find elsewhere in the author’s sub-Dickian oeuvre. But this critical distance too often simply amplifies the spiralling, vertiginous feelings of idea-rich complexity that Morrison is everywhere at pains to induce, and ignores the hollowness that resounds at the work’s core.
>>81013406
>Damn good run overshadowed by Morrison's shit
Aside from couple of issues, Dini's run is nothing special.
>>81013676
The perfect picture of this kind of strenuous vapidity occurs in Doom Patrol, in an issue where a character flexes his biceps so hard that he turns the Pentagon into a circle: certainly this is a feat comparable to revivifying a moribund superteam franchise (JLA, X-Men), or crowbarring a slew of not-ready-for-primetimers into their own ramshackle epic (7 Soldiers). But what the hell is the point? Morrison, like his character Flex Mentallo in that earlier comic, may succeed for a moment in changing the shape of the system, but the rules by which that system operates, the things it stands for, remain forever unaltered. Flex’s new Pentagon, like Morrison’s new conception of the superhero, ends up circling a big empty nothing—though there sure is a lot of impressive-looking flexing involved.
>>81011184
>they believe all of his work is immune to criticism
Plenty of people disliked books like Happy and Vimanarama, broheim. It's a rather popular sentiment and even on books like Batman: Gothic and say Nameless is pretty divided between those you like it and those who didn't.
>>81013699
Scope, complexity, ambition—all the hallmarks of a potentially expansive SF experience. But despite the abstract appeal of Morrison’s ideas and approach, there is very little enjoyment to be had in their execution, not least because he assails his readers with verbiage at once high-flown and ham-fisted. The Morrison touch—deployed everywhere, endlessly—is to crowd one high concept after another, reverently leaving each alone, never to return to any one idea again. The technique works well enough when trying to gesture toward a vast back catalogue of adventures for Flex, so that a panel featuring an exploit with “Origami, the Folding Man,” leads into other enjoyably spurious antics with “the Lucky Number Gang” or “the Baffling Box,” in one of the comic’s few successful homages to superhero nonsense. But too often Morrison tries to convey a sense of unearned wonder by spilling out vagaries in overheated prose, adopting an awestruck tone and asking his readers to “imagine” half-baked fantasies that seem rescued from Burroughs or Ballard’s litter bins.
His solo Batman i don't like much.
But the Batman in his JLA run is one of my all-time favorites. Unforgettable...
>>81013699
Wait, out of all of the things, this guy is using Flex turning the Pentagon into a circle as his prime example as to why Morrison's writing is hollow?
>>81013406
I just find Knightfall gets too overrated on this board. That doesn't mean it's a terrible story. It's far better than most Marvel/DC/Image superhero stuff in the early 90's. But it just seems kind of plain.
I mean, I prefer Moench's Vampire Trilogy over this.
>>81013749
These visionary moments are too often hypothetical, too seldom committed to and drawn out. But what’s worse, they’re derivative, too: one character, confronted with the cosmos, actually gives voice to the sentiment that we’re all “like ants… just ants.” Morrison’s mouthpieces in the story, though, contend that such cliché revelations are on the contrary dangerous and revolutionary. The book begins with a police lieutenant transparently explaining for us just how crazy and subversive Morrison’s ideas really are. The terrorists that Flex is searching for, he says, leave cartoon bombs in crowded public places to “show us how fragile the whole system is,” to “damage the foundations of the establishment.” Morrison seems to think that, like the characters he’s created, he too is leaving these cartoon bombs in the middle of a system that could use some shaking up—the very funnybook you hold in your hand will change the course of comics forever! Like the useless plastic bombs of his characters, however, Morrison’s, too, are duds.
>>81013755
I haven't read that article in a long time. The analysis seemed shallower than I remembered.
>>81013825
Comics, for Morrison, mean superheroes, and life seems to mean something equally cartoonish. Wally Sage, the lieutenant, and Flex himself all constantly hold forth on the state of the world in general, and the superhero in particular—why they do so is anyone’s guess, since their ruminations never seem provoked by anything other than a whim of the script. Sage especially indulges in tiresome laments for the “good old days” of comics, the prelapsarian golden age of “when you’re a kid,” when superheroes “loved us,” when we could “look up to” them, when there was no use wondering “who always saves the world?” because the answer is always, and reassuringly, “Superheroes, that’s who.” Flex Mentallo, and Wally Sage, seem traumatized by Crisis and Doomsday, Liefeld and Shadowhawk, so I suppose it’s possible to forgive Flex‘s often elegiac tone, its rosy-eyed nostalgia. Let’s even grant that in such a context, proclamations like “[superheroes] abandoned us, left us to die” may not sound risible, or it might not be asinine to say that “all the heroes are in therapy and there’s no one left to care about us.” There’s still no excuse for a hunched over, defeated-looking Sage to mewl, “Why didn’t the superheroes save us from the fucking bomb? … Why didn’t they stop my mum and dad fighting?”
>>81013755
No. He's just using it as an illustration.
>Morrison, like his character Flex
>Flex's new Pentagon, like Morrison's new conception of the superhero
Reading comprehension, bruv.
>>81013875
Even if we’re charitable enough to write off such prattle as the mawkish dying words of a suicide—Wally Sage spends the book medicating himself to death, after all—we would have to contend with the comic’s concluding, and by all indications heartfelt, sentiments. “We can be them,” says Sage, after the superheroes reveal the secret of the universe to him. Soon after, Flex echoes that huckstery Atlas ad copy: “I can show you how to be a real man,” says the superhero, hand outstretched manfully to scrawny Wally Sage. Superheroes as moral exemplars, as platonic ideals, as fiction bombs left latent in our universe and which will one day explode in blinding blazes of inspiration and mass perfection: does Morrison actually believe this cack?
Its seems, regrettably, so. Nowhere, in Flex or elsewhere, is there a world beyond the superhero for Morrison—there’s only Our Benevolent and Perfect Role Models, or there’s some ineffable beyond. In Flex, our reality has been constructed (and botched) by Nanoman and Minimiss, just as in All-Star Superman, there’s only Superman’s world, or the world he deigns to create for us, where our lives are no more than little experiments. If such a comic-book reality is unacceptable, though, we can escape it, don’t worry: but the only escape is oblivion. So characters in Flex experience their moments of cheesy, drug-induced cosmic awareness as blanched-out obliteration, just as The Invisibles will later dissolve into panel-less whiteness.
>>81013896
It just strikes me as a rather weak thing to wrap your point around. Makes for nice sentence but it sounds a bit silly to make one of your arguments be that since one rather insignificant event in a story feels pointless to you, it's an intricate example of how Grant's writing has no substance.
>>81013927
Not much imagination goes into what life, or comics, might be like outside of the gleaming standards superheroes have erected for us. The closest we get to reality, in Flex Mentallo, is a morose rockstar, strumming on his acoustic; the comic’s idea of real life is a relationship in which your girlfriend, clad perpetually in a clinging tube dress, nags you so much that you forget how much you love her, man.
Even shorter shrift is given to “adult” comics (by which I can only guess Morrison means to indicate undergrounds—the book provides scant details). These are apparently even more morally corrupt and baneful than the plague of dark superheroes. Not only do they fail to deliver young Wally Sage any kind of moral compass—in their pages, “Nowhere was safe. There was no one you could trust”—but they also fail to inspire any kind of ennobling activity, other than a quick wank. Says Morrison through Wally, his proxy, “I knew I shouldn’t have read those ‘adult’ comics.” So much for the source of every major aesthetic achievement in comics over the last half century.
>>81009865
Why does every high profile writer have professional pictures of them looking like magicians?
>>81010082
>I didnt like what he did for X-Men
Yeah. Meme Herman, tiny Cassandra Nova and mutants are hated because evil bacteria xD
On the other hand, he put Jean in ground instead of giving us OMD X-style.
>>81014196
It's from a DC thing
>>81010082
>I didnt like what he did for X-Men
I used to be like this. Then I matured as a reader and actually started to appreciate that Grant was not just aping what Claremont did, kicked the old status quo to the curb and actually dragged the molding franchise kicking and screaming to the the 21st century, only for Marvel to immediately try to force it right back to that mold once Morrison left.
>>81014282
This. Most people hate the run because of how it was different from the 90s shit. There's a reason x-men turned to shit when they tried to revert back the quo.
>>81014196
He is a magician.
>>81014113
He isn't using it as an example, though. Not really. Just borrowing it as an illustrative model. He's just playfully using it as an image.
I don't know why you're latching onto it.
>>81012195
How do you pronounce Moench? I've always read it as "Mench" but I've heard it pronounced "Mench" "Monch" and "Munch" from different pros.
>>81009865
Moore-fags are worse. Not that Moore is a bad writer (Swamps is GOAT) he just got the worst kind of fans.
>>81014196
Artists are magician whether they realize it or not. Art is magic. Magic is art.
https://youtu.be/k1qACd0wHd0
If you don't like Morrison then you don't like comics.
I assert that people who don't like Morrison's Batman are mad NOT MUHs and continuityfags.
>>81011266
You are ignoring the fact that Morrison can write a great traditional comic story in his sleep. The criticism that he doesn't know how to write an enjoyable straightforward story does not hold water.
>>81015510
Monk
>>81018028
but Morrison's batman is the cornerstone of hypercrisis and only continuityfags like hypercrisis
>>81012142
>>81012195
As someone who read most of the classics long before Morrison's run began and picked up RIP on a whim to try and get back into comics I 100% concur that it is the definitive run on Batman. It is vital, boundary pushing storytelling that demonstrates an innate understanding of the history and mythos of Batman. The classics are great, but they are inevitably hindered by their time periods and the corresponding limitations of the medium. Regardless of opinions, Morrison crafted a timeless ode to the entirety of Batman's history while also simultaneously managing to deconstruct, redefine, and expand the character in ways that will probably not be topped for a long long time.
>>81018058
No, he's saying that in this case Morrison didn't write a great story, not that he's incapable.
>>81018028
Morrison's entire body of work hinges on Not Muh and being a continuity fag.
>>81009865
>his Batman is bad
Arkham Asylum is god tier, Gothic is very good and his Batman (Dick) and Robin (Damian) is pure enjoyment.
The first volume of Batman Inc. is pretty interesting too.
People who dont understand his best works are stupid, yes. If you don't 'get' Doom Patrol, Flex Metallo, Animal Man, Serious House on Serious Earth, Invisibles, All Star, We3, His Bat-Epic, Multiversity, New-X-Men, Marvey Boy, or Final Crisis. You are in fact stupid.
However, he has written bad books. like Fantatic 1,2,3,4! Bad book.
>>81020425
We3 is a pretty fucking simple book. Final Crisis is just a shittier version of Seven Soldiers. Invisibles covers a lot of well-worn philosophical themes and doesn't really say anything new about them. SHoSE is a character study of Batman that casts his enemies as mythological/cultural figures. His Batman run is inconsistent and has a not of unsavory subtext involving parent/child relations, especially in the context of adopted versus biological children. All-Star is CliffNotes for a part of Superman's Silver Age history and works best the less familiar you are with Superman's history. Multiversity hamstrung itself by it's format and length, and several issues are completely pointless in regards to the plot. Flex Mentallo often reads like a parody that forgot it's not supposed to be sincere.
>>81020877
t. Alan Moore
>>81020877
Those are shallow criticisms.
>>81009865
quoted for truth
>>81021899
>>81022200
Do you really want to defend the sentiment of "If you don't like what I like then you're stupid"?
Is that really what you think is for the best?
>>81011418
Batman RIP was fucking horrible
>>81022644
Is this bait?
>>81011932
this is how a mad morrisonfag looks like
>>81022806
Are you not reading the thread?
>>81014196
and why everyone but Moore is a poser?
>>81014282
>I didnt like what he did for
>I used to be like this. Then I matured
every Morrison thread ever
>>81023077
don't be so rustled
>>81017987
I liked his X-men and Animal Man.
>>81023130
am 2 mature for that
In another universe he's probably writing for Marvel and had some input on the MCU.
>>81018058
He probably can, idk, maybe he had troubles trying to merge deep subtext with a straightforward story? Or simply fucked up, who knows, I'm not a mindreader.
>>81020425
Smelling a morrissonfag. No offense, but "you just don't get it!" is a shitty defense.
Yeah, yeah, I get all the meta convoluted shit, subtext and metatext and all that crap. It's not that complicated as you might think. But those thing aren't substitutes for good stories.
>>81010966
Hurt is dead m8. Joker killed him.
>>81024640
>Yeah, yeah, I get all the meta convoluted shit, subtext and metatext and all that crap.
Are you sure?
>>81011418
He didn't even write Battle for the Cowl and Lobe and Dixon are mediocre as fuck. You're full of shit.
>>81024689
But that anon said that Morrison didn't write Battle for the Cowl.
>>81011699
Loeb's run regularly sold 200 thousand copies a month, in early 2000s - we're only starting to see this kind of sales recently, after 15 years of industry recovering from the 90's clusterfuck - otherwise it was normal for top selling comics to sell 100k tops - and it was usually X-Men, before Loeb.
So, sales aside, stories like Long Halloween and Dark Victory are considered some of the best Batman stories out there, and not by me but by thousands of people around the world - so sorry, your personal opinion doesn't mean jack shit here.
>>81010082
I loved Grant's X-men until the end. I know Planet X is supposed to be a commentary on the repetitive nature of X-men but fuck that whole story was so boring regardless. And the Sublime shit is so bizarre and stupid. It's all about evolution so I guess it makes sense to have the ultimate villain come from the primordial soup but shit man it's all so contrived and stupid. And that's not even counting the disgusting retcons that went on after. Still the early parts are fantastic and I wish people did more with it than just stick the copying Claremont and hurling annual holocausts at them.
>>81014282
>kicked the old status quo to the curb
By having Magneto be the big secret bad guy?
>>81024955
>Loeb's run regularly sold 200 thousand copies a month, in early 2000s
You mean Jim Lee
His Batman run was extraordinary. Really a staggering achievement. Nolan babbies stick with Snyder.
>>81025337
bacteria were the big secret bad guys though
>>81024955
You do realize that you're basically saying that Loeb is better than Morrison because his Loeb's Batman comics sold better, right? By your logic it means that Loeb is also a better writer than Rucka and Brubaker.
Hush sold that well mainly because it was Jim Lee on Batman. Long Halloween and Dark Victory only were around the 50,000 level when it was monthly.
>we're only starting to see this kind of sales recently, after 15 years of industry recovering from the 90's clusterfuck
Also more bullshit.
