What's with the Thor movies and the strange aversion to magic, but not actually averting magic?
>It's not magic, guy!
>It's the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
Also, they tried to play up the whole WE'RE NOT GODS thing, yet Thor has never corrected anyone the dozens of times he's been called a god.
It's Marvel thinking that "Audiences would think magic is stupid" and "Not to offend Christians"
I enjoy a highly advanced race treating super tech as magic. I like to think they're all in on the idea and think its funny/do it to bewilder inferior races.
There I was thinking this was a general Thor movie problems/issuesthread, but it's just more /co/ circlejerking on the whole magic thing.
IF
I love the Thor movies, even The Dark World. I even enjoy the hokey Natalie Portman romance.
There. I said it.
>>80928161
>>It's the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
I guess that makes boomboxes magic then.
Are we seriously going to have this argument again?
>>80929331
That's fine for OCs but to make the Norse Gods like that is retarded
>>80929674
>read hokey as hockey
I need to get out of Michigan
>>80928161
I always assumed they simply considered actual magic shit the same as technology. i mean odin whispers into the hammer ensorcelling it, and what loki does is magic. He doesn't have some kind of cyborg implants or some shit its magic he learned from his mother. But to them whatever forces produce magic are the same as tech to us so their society is built upon it.
>>80929701
Why?
In Star Gate the made the Asgardians into literal Greys that were mythologized for their power and technology by early humans and it was cool.
>>80929701
They aren't norse gods. Theyre a movie version of a super hero comic version of norse gods. people do the ancient aliens viewed as god things all the time. The whole point is 'hey look this thing you thought was this thing is actually this thing, and it really exists'.
>>80929701
Tell that to Marvel comics then, 'cause that shit has been canon for ages
Someone post that pic of asguardians taking down enemies with giant laser guns
>>80928161
There was a line in... I think it was the first Thor movie, which was something to the effect of "We treat magic and science interchangeably." I know that's nothing close to the actual wording, but that was the message of it.
Increasingly, especially after having Thor take a dip in that magic pool in Age of Ultron, I think the idea here is "Oh, yes, it's absolutely magic. No question there. We just approach it in a scholarly fashion rather than as mysterious and unknowable superstition."
>>80929844
Yeah his line is 'where i come from they are one in the same'.
Which i think alot of people took as 'its all technology but so advanced we would think of it as magic' rather than 'its fucking magic but we just use it and understand it the same way you do technology'.
So, I think it's pretty clear at this point that Loki's illusions, while potentially a form of "technology", (it's a pretty broad term) are not caused by any machine, otherwise they probably would have taken it from him in jail, and it wouldn't mean anything that he is a "master of magic". So either he's doing some kind of universe manipulation like they've been talking about with Doctor Strange, or it's an innate biological effect. I'm leaning toward the first, because they said Frigga taught him to do it.
>>80929910
I like the whole Soul Forge sequence in Thor 2 where the Asgardians are all uppity about their magic and are all "bitch, it's a fucking Soul Forge" when Jane was understanding that it was actually a quantum field generator.
>>80929844
The line was "I come from a place where they're one and the same" and I think it is stuff that might most accurately described as magic, it's just that all of it has scientifically attainable explanations, and ancient advanced beings have had a long time to study it scientifically.
>>80929827
>Earth X is canon
Fucking MCucks
>>80929760
Because the comics they are based on are not like that?
someone post that picture of Asgard that looks like the fucking Jetsons
>>80930057
Frankly anon, I don't give a shit.
>>80930063
Of course you don't.
>>80930063
Because you're a casual. Go to the film board if you don't care about comics
>>80930084
This entire thread doesn't belong on this board by that logic.
>>80929677
>boomboxes use supernatural forces
we just might have to m8
>>80930002
My main problem with this is Thor obviously doesn't understand it scientifically. He doesn't understand Iron Man's armor, even though,if you take the whole "it's just advanced science" thing seriously, his hammer should be way more advanced. It'd be like a modern guy going back in time and somehow not understanding bows and arrows or something.
>>80928161
>>80930057
>>80930063
???
>>80930267
Hey anon. Build me a Galleon, as a modern person you're fully aware of all of the necessary engineering involved right?
>>80930030
Is this Earth X
>>80928161
What aversion to magic? Also, did you ever consider Odin saying they're not gods is just his own opinion and NOT a fact? What IS a fast, is this is the Odin and Thor worshiped by Vikings, they're gods regardless of what Odin has to say about it.
>>80930326
>Gods having Kirby desgins means they're not gods
The only time they are explicitly aliens is EX
>>80928743
I think it's more if you understand magic like the Asgards do it's no different than science
>>80928743
I don't know any Christians who watch Marvel and is offended by Thor and his comrades. It's like meeting a Christian who's a fan of Harry Potter and thinking he would have a problem with magic. There has been countless movies, shows, boardgames, novels and video games that unapologetically acknowledges the existence of gods, supernatural beings, and magic. It's not like Marvel is breaking new ground or anything, and most religious people can tell Marvel's films are fictional, and not out to personally offend their religious beliefs.
>>80930448
But there were Christian outcries against Harry Potter.
>>80930109
It doesn't. Moot burned us when he let live action bullshit stay on this board
>>80928743
It's not "don't offend Christians" it's "magic is banned. From China and we need in on that market"
Stop being fucking retarded
>>80930291
What about the page where Doctor Doom, who is better at both magic and science than every character in that image, explains that they are different?
>>80928743
I certainly wouldnt be offended
>>80930515
Sounds like China is the one that's retarded.
>>80930559
lel, he's not even a real doctor.
>>80930559
He's insane.
>>80930594
>>80930615
MCU apologists are unbelievable.
>>80930483
Yeah, and there were a clear minority. Many more Christians were fans of the work, the movies didn't get banned, nor were the books, and even the author, Rowling, admits she's Christian herself, and that Harry Potter isn't intended to encourage pagan worship, anymore than LOTRs, Disney's animated magical fairy tales films, or Star Wars supposedly does.
>>80930084
Not that guy but i've been a marvel fan since i was a kid...probably got into claremont x-men in 89.
i could give a shit about them changing shit for movies. Comics are comics. Moves are an adaptation not a carbon copy. Mewling because shit isn't identical is fucking stupid, may as well just go read the comics instead...theyre still there.
>>80930559
Post it if you can, i'm curious
>>80930515
So we're supposed to be waiting for China to ban DC movies since you guys praise them for being "more open" to magic?
>>80930594
Fuck off Reed, I got my degree from the Von Doom College
>>80930559
>Puny earthlings thinking they know better than ancients.
>>80930448
...marvel films are fiction?
SANTA MARIA!
>>80928161
>Also, they tried to play up the whole WE'RE NOT GODS thing, yet Thor has never corrected anyone the dozens of times he's been called a god.
"If someone asks you if you are a god, you say yes."
What I found weird was that in Avengers 1 Tony calls him a demi-god, which is weird because there's nothing demi about him. He's either not a god or fully a god.
>>80930291
Chthon just said "fuck dat shit" and created Chaos Magic.
>>80930448
This. In fact, more people, including /co/, were constantly quoting Cap's monotheistic beliefs when he said there was only one God and that he doesn't dress like Thor.
>>80930312
No, but i get the basic principle of buoyancy. I didn't say he should be able to build Iron Man armors.
>>80930704
I figure it's kinda along these lines
>Thor is a god and the dude is Thor
>But he's really a mortal alien rather than a god
>But he does wield godly power
>But he's not an all powerful christian styled god
He's a god....but he's not. He's an alien. Therefore demi-god, sorta.
>>80930704
Is his mom a god?
>>80930909
I think that's Tony's reasoning. He's not a god, but is kinda godly.
>>80930909
An incredibly sexy alien.
>>80930653
Doom claims here there is a difference between science and magic not claiming they are one and the same.
Anyone kind of annoyed how Fox thinks Doom is a stupid name and that they try to change it to something more foreign? It's not like Doom is really out there. I had a classmate who's surname was Outlaw, and another who's family name meant Bloodborn. Doom just sounds quaint in comparison.
>>80931013
Doom is dealing in powers he doesn't understand. That's the difference. He is treating it as magic and not attempting to understand it scientifically. He's like an african child soldier with a gun. They don't understand engineering or physics but they know how to fire an AK.
Magic is just science we don't yet understand. If you choose to abandon rationalism and believe in it as magic then it remains magic to you.
>>80931130
Doom is the only person on the planet who mixes his magic and science. Fuck right outta here
>>80931013
But he didn't. He's just saying that's easy to mess with Tony with magic because he can't (or doesn't want to) understand it
But even if we wanted to read it your way, it's a single example against many others, does it nullify them? After all comics writers forget or stop caring about continuity pretty often
>>80931130
>Doom doesn't understand magic
wat
>>80931130
>second best wizard on the planet is like an African child with a gun in terms of his knowledge and prowess with magic
Kill yourself you fucking casual
>>80931130
The fuck are you going on about?
Doom studies both magic and science and mixes magic with technology in projects like his armor.
>>80930909
Yeah, but that's not what the term demi-god means though. Either you authentically consider him a god, or think he's no god at all. No matter which position you take, you can't empirically call him a demi-god. I guess it's just Tony (or Whedon) not knowing the terminology.
But I think if you think he's only sort of venerable enough to call a god, you might a well just say god rather than abuse terminology, considering the ancients had gods of doors and individual rivers. And to distinguish from the "Christian styled God" I think it's clear enough to just use the word small-G god, since the Christian notion of God is different enough from pagan-type notion of gods (contingent, flawed), that really the terms "gods" and "demi-gods" are equal in terms of being non-Christian.
>>80931130
>>80931218
So your admitting it's just up to the writer and that claiming it's science definitively is stupid?
>>80928161
Well, one of the biggest mistakes the Marvel comics ever made in my opinion was not strictly controlling how magic worked in the setting so it was consistent, and also making the most powerful mage in the setting a major character instead of something to strive towards or something ominous and beyond comprehension. There's a lot of fun and potential in something like that. I'm betting that they want to contain straight magic to the Strange films so that they can do a better job with establishing the rules and mechanics of MCU magic more effectively.
>>80931104
I think the problem is more his birth-given name just happening to match his destiny. Like if a character just happened to be called Steven Ullyses Perhero. I personally don't mind it when stories do that tough when it's subtle enough.
>>80931318
I think your mistake is thinking that Tony is talking authoritatively on the matter. Tony doesn't believe in magic and understands that Thor is an alien and not a god. Him calling him a demi-god is a play on his status as "mortal alien that's not actually a god but also still the mythological god Thor".
It's word play essentially.
>>80931429
*when stories do that though
>>80931104
I once had two teachers who's surnames were (in italian) War and Soldier, it was hilarious
>>80930656
>Honoris Causa degree
Go pull rabbits out of hats, Vic.
>>80931354
Chthon and Shuma Gorath are both better sorcerers than Strange. The fact that Doom uses science as well as magic also makes him superior to Strange.
>>80931560
There's a soccer player called 'Boa Morte' that means 'Good death' in Portuguese. I think he's from Angola.
>>80931613
There was a soccer player called Roberto Lopez Ufarte.
Me and my brother nearly permanently lost our sides when we saw his name in a FIFA panini sticker album.
>>80928161
>What's with the Thor movies and the strange aversion to magic, but not actually averting magic?
You're mistaking /co/s spergtantrums for actual canon. The films have no aversion to magic. Jane tries to explain it using science (to some success), Thor describes it as "one in the same", but those things only indicate that Asgardians use magic in their science.
>they tried to play up the whole WE'RE NOT GODS thing,
But no, they didn't play that up at all. The only place this comes from is a single line of dialogue where Odin, in an outburst of frustration rebukes Thor with "We're NOT gods!"
But Odin is old, jaded, and weary. Is his word absolute truth? Or is it just his point of view? How do you define a god in the first place?
But nerds latched on to both things because they wanted so desperately for Marvel to screw up muh Thor that they've been blown out of proportion (see: meme of murder)
Both instances were relatively minor and vague enough to leave the "truth" ambiguous.
>>80931457
Yeah I see what you mean, but I mean the term "god-like" is even the same number of syllables and has about the same sense. I guess I'm just a hopeless pedant. I'm still thinking maybe Whedon genuinely goofed.
>>80931104
>Not having a friend whose surname was Grimheart and another whose surname was Hammerfist
Their names made mine (Armstrong) look like plain white bread.
>>80931685
>How do you define a god in the first place?
I mean I'm no expert in Norse mythology, but I think some of it may have to so with them being superior beings, occupying a higher realm in the hierarchy -- Agard to our Midgard -- who possibly played some ancillary part in forming this mortal world and humanity (although the cosmology seems complicated so I'm not really sure), and who are explicitly the rulers of humans and the human world of Midgard, and take an interest in their affairs, so that humankind is basically subject to their will. Like I said, I'm no expert on Norse mythology so I could've got a lot of this wrong, but if it's anything vaguely like that (gods as rulers, human actions are of interest to them, played some part in the forming of the cosmos as we know it), then I suppose you could say that from the movies' perspective, the people had a naive understanding of the Asgardian gods and their role in the universe. But this misunderstanding may be what made them venerate them as gods in the first place; so, if this is the case, then Odin's exasperated statement may only be taken as an admission of something that is actually, literally true, both from an Asgardian perspective and, crucially, from an ancient Norse people perspective.
>>80931130
I don't even read comics, and even I know that what you wrote is bullshit.
>>80928161
One reason is that china doesn't allow magic in their movies unless its chinese culture or a fable
Norse mythology is safe-ish, but I think they didn't want to risk it
>>80933019
I see want them to make said Fables canon.
Mostly do to all of the fun wtf moment old folk lore brings.
And that thing Journey into Mystery that I dont know how to put into words.
Something about mortals making the gods real with storys or what ever the hell was going on with Kid Loki trying to retcon him self from being a bad guy.
I dont even...
>>80933299
And that being said, if Thor is going to get killed in Thor Ragnarok 3(if only tempory) it MOST be by the midgard serpent.
That how he dies in the myth.
You dont get more canon then that!
>>80933374
I hope Red Norvall is in it!
>>80933545
Eh, I'd rather have Beta Ray Bill.
He's a fricking space horse man!
>>80933745
True. But Red played a big part in Ragnorok. Odin set it up so he would die in thors place so the prophecy was satisfied
![4199542-1630136737-38517[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/x1m5Z9C.jpg "4199542-1630136737-38517[1].jpg")
>>80931429
Doom's case is anything but subtle, but when you're as iconic as he is and have enough badass moments as he does, people give you a lot of leeway.
>>80931130
Fuck outta here filthy casual
>>80933954
Ah okay, I have not read it so I did not know that.
>>80928161
Disney.
>>80934239
It was interesting. Red Norvall used Thors belt and gauntlets and was able to wield Mojnir. But turns out Odin set it up. Since Red has the Power of Thor and Odin Said he was the new thor just before ragnorok Red is the one that died fighting the Midgard Serpent. And The Real Thor avenged him.....Odin is actually a better schemer then Loki and knows how to play the long game
>>80934646
Neat.
But I wonder if they are going to go into the whole, Ragnarok has happend before and will happen again thing.
>>80934854
I kind of doubt it. But would be really good. Check I am hoping it has Hel and the Midgard Serpent
>>80928743
I think this may have been the case in 2011, but given the acceptance that marvel has had with the general public, plus the success of guardians of the galaxy (Easily the trippiest MCU movie yet), they can safely introduce magic (as an entirely different thing from asgardian science or high tech) in Dr Strange.
>>80933299
Hmmmmm~
>>80928743
>>80928161
This. This is the type of shit you get when you're trying to appealing to opposing cultural groups and please everyone.
>>80930448
Someone doesn't live in the Bible Belt thing where "getting offended over everything" used to be the Christians favorite game until the SJW stole it.
But I've seen a significant decrease in Chrisitan Soccer Mom's lately. It's not a fad like it was in the 90s/00s.
>>80935767
>It's not a fad like it was in the 90s/00s.
And thats something I thank the gods for.
Thanks Loki!
>>80929910
>Which i think alot of people took as 'its all technology but so advanced we would think of it as magic'
Well, yeah. The main thing I took from the fist Thor movie is that it proved that Schmidt was right. There is no such thing as sorcery/magic. It's all just super advanced science we don't understand.
>>80935558
>>80930267
>his hammer should be way more advanced
So? He only uses it, he didn't design or make it.
>>80936663
>Not knowing how your computer works and the protocols of the network transport layer while you are using it
Magic is harder to explain than Alien technology while alien technology is harder to explain the mutant superpowers.
I jus realise mjolnir I's downgraded to basically a magic wand that he can hit with
