Wait. So how do Catholics, atheists, Buddhists, scientologists, etc. feel about the Norse god of thunder just chillin' in New York eatin' schwarma?
>>80825976
>Wait. So how do Catholics, atheists, Buddhists, scientologists, etc. feel about the Norse alien of thunder just chillin' in New York eatin' schwarma?
Him being an alien and not a god probably helps.
>>80825976
>WE ARE NOT GODS!
>>80825976
>>80826004
Then how to Christians atheists, etc etc etc in the Comics deal with this then?
>>80825976
Yo, Catholic here.
Just because there are beings of immense power from other dimensions running around doesn't mean God doesn't exist or they can somehow lay claim to the name. There's a pretty specific definition used for God by Judeo-Christian theology that Thor very definitely doesn't live up to.
>>80825976
Ask Cap'n 'Murica
>>80826057
There are humans and mutants as powerful as Thor, why would Thor seem relevant enough to beat someone's theological beliefs? You're not thinking critically.
>>80825976
Because God exists in the Marvel universe, too.
And he can beat all of the Asgardian gods at the same time across all dimensions.
>>80826004
There is no difference.
Gods from every other religion and mythology walk the Earth too. As well as the Celestial space gods who are far above them. Just because they're there doesn't mean you have to worship them.
>>80825976
Thor isn't actually contradictory to most those Mythologies.
Christianity can be read as a Monolatistic religion not Monotheistic. So essentially "No other gods before me" doesn't mean other gods don't exist, it means OTHER GODS AIN'T SHIT! It used to be a common tactic to take a native populations religion and either say Jesus is buddies with them or beat the ever loving shit out of all them.
>>80826473
>So essentially "No other gods before me" doesn't mean other gods don't exist, it means OTHER GODS AIN'T SHIT!
Many of the altered passages in the book of Exodus, I believe, referred to this. It was one of the Egyptian gods who "hardened pharaoh's heart" forcing God to continue the plagues. And the priests of Egyptian gods had some magical power, as they replicated the cane-into-snake trick. But the key to all of it was that the god of the Hebrews kicked the other gods' ass, and got his people out of bondage.
Because the Egyptian gods ain't shit.
>>80826473
>"No other gods before me" doesn't mean other gods don't exist
It's amazing how many people miss this.
>>80825976
i mean, everyone understands that other forms of higher beings exist. spirits, demons, all kinds of shit. you're only in trouble if you bow down and worship him instead of your own god. only weird soccermom american christians have problems with the supernatural EXISTING. you're just not supposed to, like, use it. you're not supposed to go to a fortune teller instead of praying to god.
>>80826568
yeah no. among other things no records old enough to justify the belief in alteration
the hardening heart thing is something people have a lot of trouble understanding but it's pretty fucking clear if you use your brain: god can't just go around forcing people to do what he says by bullying them with supernatural power. He made it so that the pharaoh can't give up out of fear, or even out of selfish interest. he can only let them go free if he genuinely believes he should.. which he only does once grief makes him realize these are PEOPLE whose BABIES he's been killing.
>>80826473
that's just what the romans have always done since time immemorial. only the jews wouldnt play ball, though the romans were able to influence them anyway, make them more legalistic. then after they got tired of persecuting them and especially their messianic subcategory, they decide to just SAY they're christian now and start enforcing it the way they enforced their old stuff. no real christians actually bought it, but they were easy enough to wipe out.
>>80826146
>a loving God allowed mutants to happen
Explain this then
>>80827079
Stock answer: God works in mysterious ways.
>>80825976
Because it's a Pagan religion, thus not real.
>>80825976
In the new Ms. Marvel, Muslims don't seem to give a fuck about real deities and aliens existing so as long as they keep their own values
>>80826975
>i mean, everyone understands that other forms of higher beings exist. spirits, demons, all kinds of shit.
No they don't
>only weird soccermom american christians have problems with the supernatural EXISTING
Or anyone with common sense
>>80826975
>this post
>>80827118
>a loving god works in mysterious ways
Explain this then.
In any other work of fiction we recognize it as bad writing when a character goes out of his way to keep secrets for no reason. Why does god get a pass?
It helps that God ACTUALLY exists in the MCU
>>80827201
er I mean marvel universe
>>80825976
The Buddhists wouldn't think it particularly relevant. There's always been gods and demigods who are too distracted by pleasure or too busy doing dumb shit to seek enlightenment. They waste all their good karma and end up being reborn as something shitty.
>>80827198
Because the Bible isn't meant to be read as fiction.
>>80826057
At one point, a priest says something to the effect of "How can I go back in there and say that there's only one God, when you're out here?"
Thor later said something to the effect of "I'm a God, but even Asgardians pray to something. We are not supreme beings."
>>80827216
Yeah, the One Above All, who is the true God of the Universe, and Yaweh, the minor sky-father god of Earth, who Humans may have created from primordial god-stuff out of their own beliefs.
>>80827079
he's just memeing on them
>>80827378
Have we put any Bible Characters through some online marry sue test yet?
>>80827680
That one bitch who saved the jews with her vagina is the biggest mary sue
>>80826001
>>80826004
>>80826026
They are the beings worshiped by Viking cultures, no matter where they come from, that makes them gods. No matter what Odin has to say on the subject, he's STILL the Odin people used to worship. Like it or not, they are gods.
>>80826146
>as powerful as Thor
Ha, no.
>>80828552
That's horseshit and you know it, logical fallacy man. You can call Michael Jordan a god but that doesn't make him one. If Odin says he's not a god, then he's not a god.
>>80828603
if there is a formal religion that revolves around worshiping michael jordan as a god then yes, he is a god.
Thor Heaven and Earth pokes at this question
There are older comics that talk about it too.
It boils down to "Thor acknowledges himself as an immortal being that controls the fucking weather but does not expect to be worshiped as a god"
He does however still answer prayers.
Different writers handle this in very conflicting ways.
Didn't Spider-Man meet God before OMD? And he told Peter to let Aunt May go?
>>80825976
>>80827079
I think you mean
>a loving God allowed Sublime to happen
Explain this then
>>80828603
How is that a fallacy? God is such an ill defined term. A statue of Sonic the Hedgehog can be a god
>>80828844
Shit, better tell all the Catholics, atheists, Buddhists, scientologists, etc. to stop, then. CWC's the one true prophet.
>>80828899
What does the word god mean to you? I guarantee there are many people on earth who would disagree. More to the point, what difference is there really between a super powerful alien and a god? If the alien can do things that seem like miracles to us, he's probably a god to somebody. Shit, there are tribes of people living on islands in the pacific that worship airplanes as gods.
>>80829009
And the people OP mentioned don't drop everything over those fucking airplanes.
Nor would they over the latest gimmicky superfreak.
>>80828844
>what is medieval philosophy
read something nigger and then post about topics you right now know a fuck-all about
>>80829053
>And the people OP mentioned don't drop everything over those fucking airplanes.
Are you intentionally trying to be dense? The difference between us and someone who worships an airplane is the fact that we know what an airplane is, and the mechanics that allow an airplane to fly are understood so it fits nicely into what we know is physically possible.
Introduce something so advanced that it seems impossible under our understanding of the universe, and that thing might as well be god.
>>80829108
Are you? This is the Marvel Universe, not ours. The usual laws of physics need not apply, and with all the zaniness going on 24/7 Thor's barely anything special. Might as well ask why people don't forgo their beliefs because of Strange or Thanos or Black Bolt.
>>80827353
Right, like dating Natalie Portman.
No part of any religion really impedes Buddhist beliefs.
>>80829140
>Might as well ask why people don't forgo their beliefs because of Strange or Thanos or Black Bolt.
Well? Why not? A lot of those guys sound more powerful than Jesus.
>>80829140
>that pic
So let's say Jesus rides to earth on a ray of sunlight, declares that he's here to take the true believers with him, and oh, tells us that the Pope is indeed his chosen leader on earth.
How do we know that Jesus isn't just an Interdimensional alien? How would his existence prove that there is a resting place for our immortal souls? How do we know immortal souls aren't just the result of super advanced alien technology beyond our understanding?
>>80829252
Effectively he's all those things in the context of Marvel. Really it's all a matter of perspective.
If you want to tip your fedora all day, you can take the Pym way. If Bible Thumpin' is more your style accept Jesus.
Ultimately there's no difference.
Nobody in Marvel actually thinks that Thor is a god aside from those who know him personally. To the general public he's just some guy with electric powers or tech who calls himself Thor.
"There's only one God, and he's American"
>>80828657
Of course if you assume an atheist position from the outset then of course theistic beliefs are absurd. Do you really think the degree to which idol-worship is formilized has ANY bearing on what religious people thinks is and isn't Divine?
If you're going to use a semantic debate AT LEAST use the other persons' definitions. Otherwise you're just talking to yourself in the corner.
>>80825976
Why would you believe person X is a god in a universe full of super powered beings that run around in spandex?
Any brick house with access to high level tech could mimic Thor's powers.
>>80825976
Atheists feel the same as usual; Stupid.
>>80828657
>>80830042
Definition does not change reality. Our awareness of the Asgardians as simply powerful aliens reduces them from omnipotent gods to just higher powers. We may worship them as deities but because this is a fucking comic book that is defined by its own rules, they are just superpowers and the fact that they receive idolization does not make them literal gods, only that by the definition of the common people in the world of the comic, they are only known to be 'gods', except in the case of say the Avengers, who are aware that they are just powerful.
>>80830604
>Our awareness of the Asgardians as simply powerful aliens reduces them from omnipotent gods to just higher powers
the norse pantheon were NEVER omnipotent being. There were as many stories of them being outdone as there were of their victories. None of the gods were the best at what they did because there were still things above even them
>>80830574
if I was in the Marvel universe I would legit consider most of their A-list supers as gods, or as avatars of godly powers
>>80825976
Easy. You don't recognise Adgardians as Gods.
They are not divine beings in the sense of Abrahamic religion.
They are not all-powerful, all-knowing or omnipresent.
They are essentially just strong aliens, no matter what they or primitive cultures call themselves. Much like Hulk is not a God.
Other concepts are harder to square with Christianity, but a guy with a flashy hammer is no threat to religion.
>>80830006
Except for the fact that a city in Oklahoma regularly interacted with Asgard and by the year 2099 worshipping Thor becomes the major religion.
>>80826568
The plagues were meant to be symbolic of Yahweh murdering the egyptian gods. The nile turning to blood was Hapi being defeated, the sun being blocked out was Ra being overthrown, etc
A true God would not have been so completely BTFO by Ghost Rider.
>>80827680
Moses led a revolution, talked to God, put God's word into stone, changed God's mind, got to see a glimpse of God's essence. Finally he couldn't enter the Promised land but he died and God personally dide the funeral. Beat that, David
>>80830875
Don't fuck with ghost rider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiwT-mGEzhE
>>80829180
You're thinking of Jesus when he walked on earth, as human. The real Jesus has all the power on heaven and earth. In Marvel terms, He's the source and shaper of all things
>>80830916
That's actually kind of dumb. Galactus doesn't kill out of malice.
>>80827680
Joshuah (Moses' successor) prayed for more time to beat the Amorites, and the sun stood still in the sky. That's some cosmic shit although Joshua didn't really do it himself, but God did. Arguable God/YAHWEH is the ultimate Mary Sue by definition
>>80830963
He still causes terrible fear and suffering.
>>80830916
Is this canon? Like the other Anon pointed out, it's silly. Galactus doesn't crop up his feelings of guilt until the Ghostrider brings it out. In fact, I believe at some point the living Tribunal said that Galactus was a necessary force of the universe?
>>80831023
I just remember, that's what the Tribunal said about Thanos when he wiped out half of life in the universe, and no cosmic injustice was being done
>>80831055
It would seem that The Living Tribunal is pretty lazy.
>>80830963
Galactus is the ultimate jobber.
>>80830916
anyone have the page with Ghost rider where he turns on Skin Bender and goesBURN
>>80831099
well yeah. it outsources most cases to interns anyway. even She-Hulk had a tenure working for the living tribunal
>>80825976
He's an alien that norse mythology is based around
>>80830916
Reminder Ghost Rider is a cosmic entity created by the one above all.
>>80831216
what the fuck
why is he executing a sailor scout?
>>80830660
This. Old school gods weren't all knowing or benevolent and loving. They were jealous and fickleAnd therefore more human
>>80831246
dude hates anime for some reason
>>80831246
He's out to get himself some Sailor Poon
>>80825976
You don't know anything about those religions do you?
>>80828831
What I Got is a really good song?
Better question: How happy are metal fans about Thor existing? Do you think he drops by the odd Sabaton concert?
>>80831354
>faith reserves
>>80825976
catholics don;t care because gods other than YHVH don't count
atheists don't care because no one can prove anything
Buddhists don't care because this life is a cruel illusion and the only thing which matters is achieving enlightenment and finally being free from this torturous samsara
scientologists don''t care because all uninitiated are liars possessed by aliens
>>80831393
How about Muslims?
>>80831416
I honestly don't see how this is an issue for any modern religion, which generally define God as an omnipotent omniscient being.
In that context, worrying about Thor having been worshiped because he's an unusually powerful alien is about the same as worrying about Ancient Greek athletes having been worshiped for being unusually strong.
>>80831416
same as catholics
>>80831494
>the only religions still around are abrahamic
could you get any more sheltered?
>>80831494
>>80831354
>literally stellar empire
>knows about Phoenix, Thanos' shit with Abstracts
>probably aware of cosmic hierarchy and a design behind Celestial's activities
lmao mathematical proof. This is simply dumb.
>>80831354
>This is what atheists actually believe
>>80831557
>>80831584
The majority of the world follows the Abrahamic religions and I said generally, so I think you should calm down senpai.
>>80831557
name one other that matters (besides confucianism enabling communism in China, as it doesn't fit)
>>80831584
nice try hippie
>>80831615
Maybe that's the point, their nihilistic faith is what saves em. Still dumb thou
>>80831623
>The majority of the world follows the Abrahamic religions
>>80830963
>>80831023
I take it as circumstantial. One, in the clip, Galactus was extremely malnourished and poisoned. He was dying, so his powers weren't anywhere near maximum.
Second, the sheer amount of pain and death he's caused across the universe would be incalculable by human standards. That combined with his current weakness was enough to overwhelm him.
In any other situation, Galactus would've been able to resist.
>>80831354
>There are people out there who unironically believe in atheism
>>80831697
prove it otherwise desu
>>80831703
Don't worry, they're all space aliens or mindfucked international criminals.
>>80831643
Hinduism is just shy of a billion followers.
of the 7.6 billion people on earth, only 3.4 billion follow an abrahamic religion. that's less that 50%. No majority for you.
>>80831697
>As of 2005, it was estimated that 54% (3.6 billion people) of the world's population considered themselves adherents of an Abrahamic religion
I suppose facts and statistics are only for the sheltered such as myself?
>>80831760
I was asking for a one that matters, you know, as it had/has an impact on the history of humankind as a whole. Hinduism doesn't mean shit unless they rip this world a new one nuclear bombing the Pakis (or the other way round of course).
On the side note, Catholicism is getting pretty popular in China, so we'll see about that wikipedia statistics in a decade.
>>80831354
Fantomex, there are about four million things greater than you.
>>80826473
>actually being a heretic
Filthy protestant
>>80826208
Kind of ruins things for any religion claiming monotheism, though, dunnit?
>>80828844
>A statue of Sonic the Hedgehog can be a god
No, that would be an Idol.
>>80831804
Hinduism and Zoroastrianism are the two most culturally influential religions in the entire history of mankind.
>>80831834
Yeah, you either have to go henotheist or monolatric
>>80831697
>he thinks pajits outnumber Christians and Muslims
>>80827680
>>80830982
>Whenever god isn't on screen, people should be asking "where's god?"
>>80831899
>introduce Marvel America to cosmic gods
>defendthefaith.exe
>Mutants no longer even on their radar
Magneto plx
>>80831760
Oh wow, a religion only followed by people who shit in streets, so important
>>80831870
Not with the gnostic bullshit again, Christianity (Catholicism and Orthodox Church) borrows heavily from Greek Philosophy (that is true but spare me the "pythagoras traveled to India blah blah blah" well guess what, Plato and Aristotle didn't) but zoroastric influences were branded as heretic from the very beginning and for a good fucking reason too.
>>80825976
He is handsome
>>80832022
>zoroastric influences were branded as heretic from the very beginning and for a good fucking reason too.
I know fuck all about zoroastric shit, whats so bad about it? Human sacrifice?
>>80832121
a) Threatening to monotheism
b) Official religion of the Babylonian Empire, so the empires that followed tried to tear it down to promote loyalty to the new order.
>>80826067
Former Catholic here, pretty much this, intelligent people could easily reason that it doesn't affect their faith, dumb people wouldn't care and/or ignore any facts about it.
>>80831834
Unless they believe in an even higher single god and everything else, no matter how reality warping, is beneath it
>>80832190
Hey, maybe the anti-vaxxer nutjobs would focus their pointless and uninformed bile against Thor instead.
>>80831834
>>80831899
>>80832202
Wasn't the whole thing with the plagues in Egypt also accompanied by God pretty much saying he'd kick the asses of the Egyptian gods?
>>80831216
plz notice me I need that page
>>80832153
You have two gods, basically equal to each other. Good and bad. Good is light and spirit, bad is darkness and body (matter). Naturally you follow the good one. So, you have a great and unending hatred for everything corporeal - be that your own body, perspective of prolonging the existence of humankind a.k.a. having children, people's amassing material goods or simply enjoying what little they have and so forth. Think about it as overly-zealous Franciscan contempt for material wealth - completely over-the-top when you dismantle the very society and commit acts of torture and murder because you hate material world.
>>80831614
tbf Noh-Varr's originally from an alternate universe.
>>80829180
Only for christians who believe in the holy trinity.
>>80832415
of course it was meant as a supplement for >>80832121
with addition, that I'm talking about the heresies that sprung from zoroastric influences on Christianity, not the Persian religion itself.
>>80831237
Created by Yahweh, anon. Just another skyfather.
>>80826067
You're right. That doesn't mean god doesn't exist. Just every single other piece of evidence does.
>>80831697
I got second hand embarrassment from this post
>>80832153
>Official religion of the Babylonian Empire
What? Zoroastrianism is an Iranian religion, an extant of the Proto-Indo-Europeans' religion. The Babylonians' religion was a muxture of their own early Canaanite pantheon – Baal, Ishtar, Moloch – and the Sumerians'.
>>80832121
Essentially, Ahura Mazda is Eru Illúvatar and Angra Mainyu is the Idea of Evil. Fire and dogs are considered to be sacred. Idleness is considered bad and so monasticism and seclusion are verboten.
Also, there're the Daevas (demons; comparable to the Asuras of Hinduism) and the Ahuras (angels; comparable to the Devas of Hinduism)
>>80825976
Who cares?
Why are americans obsessed with vikings.
>>80832806
No one cared ten years ago, it's a recent infatuation.
>>80825976
Play spiderman 2 on the ps1 and get to the ending.
>>80828682
Which, in the end, is the reason why he makes for a fascinating character. Gods walking on earth and living mortal lives are an incredibly engaging paradox that has been around since far beyond Jesus Christ. I feel like Supergods by Grant Morrison probably addresses this but I haven't read it yet.
>>80832490
can you name at least one m'friendo?
>>80825976
Atheists and buhddists would have no problem with it.
>>80831623
>The majority of the world follows the Abrahamic religions
Maybe that's why mankind is so cancerous.
>>80827680
>new testament created after the old testament
>jesus is related to the big guy in the original book
>has some big destiny
>everyone loves him
>has any power he wants
>>80834465
You forgot
>gets killed
>just comes back three days later
>>80832806
Lot of Scandinavian immigrants, especially in the midwest.
I wonder if the appearance of Thor or other gods has resurrected any of the old ass religions in Marvelverse.
When's Bill going to be in the movies?
>>80832490
>>80833475
There is zero evidence that God doesn't exist.
There is also zero evidence that he does exist.
You can also make this argument of flying pigs or Cthulhu, mind you. There is no more evidence of God than any other fantasy creature.
I can only speak for Buddhists, here. I dont think Buddhists would be against it. We're all about that living in harmony with everyone. I think that would include deities/aliens
>>80838752
>There is no more evidence of God than any other fantasy creature.
>Jesus was a historical figure
>one could make a decent argument the Resurrection occurred
>the Shroud, Sudarium, Miracle of the Sun, Miracle of Lanciano, and the various testimonies and events in the life of saints provide supporting albeit imperfect evidence
Careful with the absolutes, anon. They are absolutely tricky business.
>>80838752
>zero evidence
>implying only empirical, scientific data counts as "evidence"
There are several proofs and arguments for God's existence that rely on logic and rationality, and many branches of Christianity maintain that you can be led to believe in God through reason alone (but reason alone does not SUSTAIN faith or a religious life or relationship with God)
I can't get my christian stepmom who normally loves movies, to watch Thor because I tried to circumvent the whole "Norse God" thing by simply describing him as an alien. But I could see her eyes glaze over because God didn't create aliens either.
>>80827079
Christians always use the "It's just god's plan" argument like if you ask "why does god let people get murdered?"
>>80841359
And I understand if people react poorly to that argument, but it's a legitimate argument. God exists outside of our limited mortal perspective and has perfect knowledge of events and the full expanse of time and creation.
Saying "WELL IF I WAS GOD I WOULD DO X, SO SINCE X DOESN'T HAPPEN THEN GOD CAN'T EXIST" doesn't follow because we can't assume God would make the same decisions as a random man on the street.
They know The Future Foundation™ is the One God.
>>80841513
>Letting some kid die of cancer is only just what some fag thinks God™ should do.
Edgy/10
>>80841168
>>There are several proofs and arguments for God's existence that rely on logic and rationality
Like? Genuinely curious here.
>>80841240
Thor movies are shit anyway.
>>80841676
Probably the most notable are Aquinas' proofs, there are others but I'd need to look up the specifics on the others, since I'm not a trained theologican or philosopher so I'll probably fuck something up just typing them from off the top of my head on my phone here.
>>80841629
What I'm saying is that down here where we are we know it's an awful, awful thing and can't see what good can come of it.
But God does. Part of the virtues of faith and hope is understanding that there is a larger plan oriented towards the best good of all things, and that we have a place in that. Even if things seem really shitty at the time.
As part of the Church of Madoka I like Thor.But Evans is best Chris.
>>80825976
GEE IF THE NORSE WORSHIPPED SUPER POWERFUL ALIENS AS GODS MAYBE MY GOD IS A SUPER POWERFUL ALIEN TOO
>>80841756
Not him but those were bullshit when I learned them at catholic school and most of them still are
>>80841756
>Aquinas' proofs
That's neat and all but even assuming all that is sound it says nothing about God's current function other than an origin point and no reason I need to worship him in any specific fashion or an fashion at all.
>>80842079
>presented with set of logical arguments
>"Here's my rebuttal: that's bullshit, man"
Good going.
https://youtu.be/GSnHM3rn1jc?t=39
>>80842305
>That's neat and all but even assuming all that is sound it says nothing about God's current function other than an origin point and no reason I need to worship him in any specific fashion or an fashion at all.
That's a rational conclusion at least. That's why I said that reason can bring to you understand that God exists, but there's got to be something else that takes you the next step to develop a religious life that involves that mindset. People find that in different ways.
>>80842846
Nah I'm good.
>>80827154
>because it's religion and there for not real.
Ftfy
>>80825976
Not a real god in the sense that a Hindu deity is a god. Or in the sense that God is God. The bible doesn't say that there are no other gods, it just says that you shouldn't worship them because they didn't make everything in the whole wide world. And as long as Thor doesn't say that there is no galactiv emperor named Xenu, Scientologists are good too.
Gods are strictly speaking irrelevant to Buddhism as it is just a collection of method for self-annihilation (or self-relativization). Even if gods exist in the real world, so what? There are people who worship Gautama Buddha and other boddhisattvas, but that goes against Buddhas own teachings.
>>80842846
But there is no proof in the first place
By saying faith you are basicly saying
>i want to believe therefore I shall be ignorant
>>80843167
old school shitposting
>>80843580
>shitposting
Sound like reality, not insane fables
>>80843569
>Religion
>ignorace
>Atheism
>ACTIVELY TRYING TO CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST
>Not ignorance
>>80825976
Asgardians aren't supposed to be the creators of our universe so the religious people just see them for what they are , aliens that look and act like humans. You can discover anything new in the universe, new planets, new aliens, new dimensions etc the christians will still say that all of this is part of the creation.
>>80843569
I mean "proof" in the traditional sense of a philosophical thought experiment that starts with a premise and works its way to the conclusion.
>>80831494
Sure just rule out the billions of Hindus Confucians Buddhists Animists and Pagans. Clearly they are all just confused and only you see the one true way.
>>80825976
pretty good
>>80843728
No I'm pretty sure the Atheism is actually looking for answers rather than to outright disprove god. But there is no proof so why blindly believe and be ignorant.
>religion is about blindly ignoring all proof that god is illogical, contradicting, and a cult that rejects basic scientific principles.
>>80843741
Exactly so where is the proof?
>>80843866
>No I'm pretty sure the Atheism is actually looking for answers
Don't be retarded. Atheism is a positional statement.
Ascribing any greater motive to it than that makes it a philosophy or a religion, which it isn't. It's a component of some philosophies and religions, like Marxism, non-Christian existentialism, and so on.
>>80827079
top kek
Jesus is cannon in the marvel universe. Jesus is the son of god,who created everything. He is the son of The One Above All, THE SON OF STAN LEE AND JACK KIRBY
>>80835864
I think Thor and Hercules go out of their way to discourage that kind of thing
>>80843569
My man, realize one thing: it's not ignorance, but accepting human mind's limitations.
People much smarter than you and me, and most of the "big brains" of today, who are too specialized to ever see a bigger picture figured (first Plato, then Plotinus, then, most notably St. Anselm of Canterbury) that when you think about God (the Biggest Guy, a highest, Absolute being) rational mind finds a wall - it perceives a wall, it knows something is beyond it but it cannot comprehend how to get past that epistemic wall.
So there you have several ways, or proofs - for example Plato thought that simply contemplating the Forms, ideal structures, shall eventually lead you to comprehension of the first Forms (I don't know the exact English translation, but I'd try to make something at the spot) - One-ness and the Undefined Duality (these two are making up reality as it is).
Now Plotinus thought that at the center of everything is an Absolute Source of creative power that he called simply the One (without errr ...gender-specification?) and because it's Absolute and completely Infinite It slips out the rationality, only through ecstasy you could attain any knowledge about It.
Anselm created two so-called "Ontological Proofs (or Arguments)" that he used for it. If you'd care to read about it, just make sure that you're not reading about Descartes, or Kant's versions because they're distorted and, frankly, sloppy compared to the originals. In short - he proved the existence of an Absolute Being, if only we take a presupposition that "existing in reality" is better than "non-existing in reality, but only in thought". But still he stated that "I see the Light that God is radiating, therefore I know that He is. I can't see Him and how He is, and here my faith takes over".
That's for anybody actually debating in this thread also, I'd hope somebody can carry on with merits and not reddit-tier shitposting.
>>80843866
If it's supposed to be about finding answers, then why are they outright trying to ignore one possible answer?
>>80843973
Their kind feed on and are shaped by belief. Marvel Thor and Hercules going out of their way to discourage a revival of old religions would be like a starving man torching granaries and cows.
>>80843896
The unanswered questions of the universe. Like gravity and souls.
>>80843929
People who are atheist have questioned religion and don't think its logical or has any proof.
Everyone looks for proof, but religious people blindly believe what they were born into without question ignorantly and call it faith.
>>80841168
You serious?
If it's not empirical than it doesn't prove shit
>>80844060
Gravity and souls, for now, at least, are yoked together by the fundamental forces.
If we can free our souls from being weighed down by gravity, we can achieve our true destiny.
>>80843580
That's how I roll ;)
>>80844060
Gravity waves have been proven, google it
Gravity is easily explainable actully and has been for a while.
Souls are made up.
>>80844110
:^)
So mathematics and 90% of modern physics are bullshit?
>>80830963
Ghost rider guilty stare power is based on suffering inflicted to others it doesn't matter if he did it to survive or not.
>>80844110
>he believes that the only truth in the universe is based in physical, empirical sciences
>>80844110
>If it's not empirical than it doesn't prove shit
Have you ever stepped outside your 5th grade world?
Only a small fraction of science (and some of the arts, confusingly enough) is based on empiricism.
>>80844060
Are you retarded?
>>80844060
>unanswered question
GOD DID IT
>unanswered question
Let me make a scientific hypothesis and gather data with equipment and testing procedures, while carefully documenting my results.
See the difference
>>80844252
>Let me make a scientific hypothesis and gather data with equipment and testing procedures
What is this, the 17th century?
Or worse.Chemical engineering?
>>80843993
Nobody's ignoring God, it would be difficult when his followers make such a racket. It's just the arguments for his existence aren't at all convincing unless you are just going to say "fuck it I'm going to believe because I want to"
Which is fine, you do you just don't pretend you've hit on an indisputable TRUTH.
>>80844358
If we don't think that it's the Truth then why would we believe it and go out of our ways to make radical life changes according to it?
>>80844202
Not him
Regardless of exactly what type of evidence processes one goes through math and scientific hypothesis have actual proof to back themseves up.
Religion
>god did it cus I say so
Oh boy.
Ok, Thor and Tony and Cap exist in the same dimension/realm as each other.
One can't be the creator of the others.
Now get ready for it.
The ones that created those three are infact the writers.
*mind blown*
Tony wouldn't have any adventures or exist without the writers, it doesn't matter if he doesn't beleive in them or never seen them. The creators don't live in the same """""level""""" as the created.
This is exactly why Jesus isn't the creator.
The initial creator is on his own level above all the other levels.
>>80844358
>these niggas still thinking fact and truth are the same thing
Fact: Spam is made of pig bits.
Truth: America did Pearl Harbor.
See the difference?
"Truth" is what people use to justify stupid bullshit like bombing goat herders and voting in presidential elections. Facts are reality. They do not lie.
>>80844358
>truth
bro, truth could be unattainable at all. Science isn't uncovering truth too, it just gathers more and more facts. Even physics and mathematics gather crumbs of a bigger picture that human mind is possibly unable to comprehend.
>>80844407
>god did it cus I say so
>the sum totality of 2000 years of philosophical reasoning and arguments reduced into a shitpost on 4chan so that some edgy fedoralord can feel superior about his lazy world-view
Sure thing, bro.
>>80844288
It's called the scientific method
>>80844407
>math and scientific hypothesis have actual proof
Non-empirical disciplines like math "prove" things in the same way Aquinas "proved" god.
What I'm trying to say is Math is retarded.
>>80844464Which was codified by a Franciscan friar
>>80844425
Also the writers have just as much power over Thor as Tony.
That is another reason why Thor is not more devine than Tony.
>inb4 hurr durr but the writers aren't part of the marvel universe
That's my point. They are above it, on a higher plane of existence.
Just like our God would be, he doesn't live in the clouds or in the same universe as us even.
Well, as far as catholicism goes.. Same way they reacted when they discovered the New World.
Determine if Christ died for Asgardian sins.
If so, then send missionaries.
>>80844454
To be totally honest, if you're living in America, don't have any proper education in history and philosophy, you go on 4chan and on top of that you're stuffed with progressive propaganda all the time you can be a piss-poor debater when it comes to most important ideas.
>>80844464
It's called "an outdated mental technology that the more backward physical sciences still rely on".
The only reason you people still insist on shoving it in everything is the same reason you people still use the Imperial system of measurements. Because you can't be assed to change.
>>80828552
The Phoenix would like a word with you and thors power level
>>80831834
Marvel literally has a character known as "one above all."
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/One-Above-All_(Multiverse)
He pretty much is God in the Marvel universes and all the other gods that walk around in those universes are just powerful beings that are all still weaker then him. Basically its like how the gods in Lotr are set up as just really powerful Angels to one Uber God that made them.
>>80844490
And?
>>80844526
How exactly is the scientific method outdated or backwards?
>>80830604
>Definition does not change reality
>god: a thing that is worshipped
>michael jordan is worshipped
>therefore he is a god
>>80844386
Like I said it's all good your beliefs are your own an I am in no way belittling them but believing a thing doesn't make it true.
It's this assumption that just because a group of people want something to be true they must be right everyone else must be wrong that's infuriating.
>>80844480
Math as we concieve it proves itself. How the concepts work outside of the realm of marhematics is another story but then again theres a certain point where it isn't meant really to.
>>80844490
So
>>80844480
Na 2+2 is 4
You can physically prove it
The aquenas or whatever you spell it is assumptionist non proof
But yes math is bullshit when we get up to math for college readyness. Absolute bullshit.
>>80844606
How about the fact that it relies on the impossibility of "controlled conditions" and reproduction, both physical impossibilities?
And even under the most rigorous of controls, it still relies on a caveman like approach of brute force in the name of "data collection".
What do expect from something codified by the English?
Logic, which relies on the power of the human mind - or more recently, the minds we've created to do our thinking for us, is more refinable and reliable than the scientific method. Hence mathematics.
>>80844563
And Tolkein desinged all of that shit.
So he is the """""""""God""""""""" of all of the chacaters in Lord of the Rings.
It wouldn't matter if none of the characters ever saw Tolkein, it wouldn't matter if none of them beleived, he is on a higher plane of existence to them.
All he had to do was write it and it would be real, none of the characters no matter how powerful they are would be able to defeat him, however all tolkein would have to do to make a character stronger than another would be to write it.
"and then a leaf killed the Uber God"
However none of the characters in the books would have any affect on him.
Now Tolkein obviously isn't God because he died. Jesus isn't God because he died.
They also aren't God because they were born and people saw them and they lived on the same realm of existence as everyone else.
God is on a higher level than us. He doesn't live in the clouds or whatever.
(not that you said he does)
I'm just trying to explain that characters that live on the same realm as each other aren't inherently superior to each other. And the creator of that realm, doesn't live inside it.
>>80844449
>>80844440
Umm, isn't that what I said?
>>80831834
monotheism isnt the belief in one god, just the worship of one god. they can believe other gods exists, its just the one they worship is the one true god or the god above all other gods.
>>80844526
It's not outdated and I use both the metric system and the imperial system
>>80844454
2000 years of philosophical bullshit sumed up as a self delusion
Dont get angry and call it edgy just cus your parents lied to you. They're parrents lied to them also
>>80844807
>Jesus isn't God because he died
transfiguration and all this stuff nigga, I ain't gotta explain
>>80844753
Whatever nigga...
Why is every thread about philosophy/religion turning out to be reddit-level shitposting and few people desperately trying to make complicated stuff easy enough for dumbasses to comprehend?
You know its kinda like how we always ask how the joker isnt put death row or why shit happens, in the comics that all religions and semi right, the real questions is hell, where does your soul actually go? Ithere multiple types of hell
>>80844747
Define 2, define +, define =, define 4 (hint, there are many mathematical definitions to each, and they are not all consistent. except =. = is usually pretty consistent)
Nothing about math is physical. Everything that is "true" is true in context. Putting two sets of two fingers up and counting four does not "physically prove" anything because, again, math is not physical. It is definitional.
[/mathfag]
>>80844950
Then somebody better tell me how many fucking apples I have right now goddammit!
>>80844497
Thats a nice theory
But where's the proof?
I mean you can believe it if you want to
What is still something you just made up
>>80844989
For that, you should probably ask a linguist.
>>80826001
That's not what he said, dipshit.
>>80843993
Cuz there's no proof and its made-up
>>80844994
You think Thor has more power over Tony still or?
I don't get what part of the sentence you're disputing.
>>80844950
Nigga I have 2 apples, i have 2 more apples, I have 4 apples
PHYSICAL REPRESENTATION
>>80844940
/co/ sometimes does religion threads really well, but not so much anymore since the mods started deleting Chick threads.
It's more /tg/'s wheelhouse though.
>>80845131
If we basicly live in a comic book and gods in another realm
That's as plausible as saying we all live in a glass jar
>>80843248
>The bible doesn't say that there are no other gods
It's inconsistent about it, sometimes humoring them and other times claiming God is alone.
>>80844735
>Math as we concieve it proves itself.
No, it relies on a set of completely unprovable axioms and it isn't even consistent in those axioms.
>>80845172
I didn't say we live in a comic book. Or a glass jar???
I'm saying "God" or the one that created the universe doesn't live inside the universe.
Yet again a glass jar or petri dish is on the same level as us.
Game worlds for example are a different level, you can't physically go to them or touch them.
I understand it it makes sense for you to beleive this is the highest level.
But you can't argue that a character in a comic book, like Tony, Thor or Cap can deny their being a creator (and being correct) because their creators are the writers.
>>80844490
>>80845334
Well my point is is there is no proof that applies to us.
In considering that you made it up your self.
>>80845606 I did not mean to reply to>>80844490
>>80829180
Thanos actually DOES have worshippers, or be did. Death of Captain Marvel starts with a fight against them, and in Rage of Ultron, they hide in one of his churches.
As for Black Bolt, during Hickman's FF run, one of the kids refers to him as a "space Messiah King" so assuming it wasn't sarcasm, he probably has a few worshippers too.
>>80845606
The proof is that the universe has a beginning.
If it began, something must have began it, it didn't come from nothing.
What ever began it is God, I haven't seen them though. Batman never saw Bill Finger etc
If the Universe was always there then I'm a retard and nevermind.
>>80831354
Which is fucking bullshit, since Kree, by fucking nature practically worship the Supreme Intelligence.
>>80827160
Go get your fedora blocked
>>80830916
Wow, that was a nice ghost rider
>>80827079
he set nature in motion to work a certain way
celestials came and fucked with it
he let them because people have free will, but he also kept his people ALIVE. maybe theyre fucked-with, but theyre doing okay. this is another challenge they have to overcome.
You know, out of all of the comic book versions of atheists, Batman is arguably the most reasonable. He simply notes that every "supernatural" phenomenon he's encountered follows some degree of consistency and logic and can be measured and understood to a reasonable extent. He has yet to encounter an all-knowing, all-powerful being, and until he does, he is acting under the assumption that such an entity simply does not exist.And if he does encounter such an entity, it's going to have a LOT of explaining to do.
>>80840599
>Careful with the absolutes, anon. They are absolutely tricky business.
Not always, Anon.
