Why do people like the X-Men? To preface, I'm saying this as a very big fan of the X-Men. I was thinking about it the other day, and I can't immediately think of any really, really good runs of Uncanny X-Men outside of Claremont's first. I can think of several exceptionally bad, but no others that are exceptionally good. With that in mind, why are people still fans?
>>80806411
because of runs like this
>superpowers
>shipping
>drama
>>80806472
Superheroes in a nutshell.
>>80806411
>With that in mind, why are people still fans?
Your mistake is thinking quality matters to long term fans, they're invested in the characters and not much else
>>80806411
I like it because the premise of .1% of the population developing superpowers at puberty and the social fallout from that triggers my anthropology boner.
Also Rightclopa, Xavier and Mags as characters due to how they reacted to there dc scenarios.
>>80806411
>Pre-90s persecution of every minority sub-culture.
>During the 90s, hip to be square met xtream
No one likes them now.
>>80806448
that was actually a very meh run
basically everything that was wrong with capes in the 00s
>>80806411
because deep down, they are good characters, very developed with a universe on their own
If you can't think of good runs outside of Claremont, how about Ellis, Gillen, Spurrier, PAD, Nicieza, Alan Davis, Carey, Yost & Kyle, Remender, Milligan?
>>80808320
>erything that was wrong with capes in the 00s
Nah I think the nostalgia wank was way worse than something at least trying to be new
>>80808684
True, but frankly, the best marvel comics were already done at this point. Let's face it.
RIP Marvel
1961-1991
>>80808320
Here's your (you)
>>80808320
>>80808684
I disagree with both of you
I agree with the meh part but it's not even what was wrong with capes in the 00's. That honor goes to Identity Crisis and also some Millar comics.
Nostalgia wank can get tiresome but at least back then it felt like they were competently doing comics. Decompression and reducing the number of words to read feels like a breath of fresh air but after 15 years of bad writing it's coming off worse and the novelty for it is dead.
>>80808772
Why are you morrisonfags so insufferable?
morrison's run really dated horribly
>>80808813
And while you disagreed with me, I have to agree with you, because it's true.
>>80806411
>I can't immediately think of any really, really good runs of Uncanny X-Men outside of Claremont's first.
I was just thinking this recently, too. I'm also a big X-fan. Claremont's first run is the answer to the question. That's it. He made all the most popular X characters popular.
Claremont's First is like 2 decades of material
>>80808813
>Decompression and reducing the number of words to read feels like a breath of fresh air
NO.
>>80809958
Read the post before responding next time
A bunch of superpowered people that live, train and hang out together. Its a comfy concept.
>>80808841
Shit man, I'm not trying to be a prick. I still really enjoy the run, though
>>80810074
>it's an "X-Men chill at the Xavier Mansion playing superpowered baseball and shit" episode
>>80811492
this!
>>80806411
I grew up reading Claremont.
Lobdell ruined things for me.
Morrison brought me back.
Claremont comes back.
House of M ruins it for me.
Whedon? Fuck yeah!
Warren Ellis? Meh.
Still waiting for some sign that it'll get good again.
>>80812298
>it's a giant DA watermark episode
X-men had a little bit of everything for everyone
pervy fetishes? yes
but also appealing to some liberal shitheads.
testosterone alpha males? check
but also interesting female characters.
The X-Men was a really fair comic in the portrayal of the society, and politics
The main villain after all, is a jew, who survived auschwitz, only to become an even worse person than hitler
Unlike other heroes, anyone from anywhere could be a mutant and become an X-man. It makes them a great wish fulfillment fantasy.
>>80813221
Really, I actually liked Gen X. It was the only Lobdell thing I will ever praise.
I didn't liked Whedon or warren ellis they were both pretty meh. Morrison was solid but he gets way too much praise his works aren't nearly as amazing as they think it is.
House of M was terrible for mutants but the writers around that time managed to make it amazing.
It was around utopia where things went to fucking shit but didn't actually turn till AvX.
>>80815276
San Francisco was a mistake. Never shoulda left Westchester after Messiah Complex.
They were super pushed during the 00's when I was a kid and there were a bunch of second run Claremont volumes at my local library so I read the shit out of those and enjoyed them.
They also appealed to me because they were a team that lived together in a school, and that sense of camraderie and friendship while living in a dorm was attractive because I was an only child who didn't have too many friends.
Also, they were despised and treated as second class citizens by the general public just because they were born different which I resonated with since I was a minority (granted I was of the yellow variety so I didn't get it that bad outside of the occasional small eyes jab).
And they have some fucking cool characters; Cyclops, Wolverine, Colossus, and Nightcrawler being my favorites.
I'm not sure, either OP. I do like certain runs, as well but not a whole lot of them; I've enjoyed more X-force and X-men related solo books more than actual X-men; and, while the concept of social outcasts and weirdos creating a family and world for themselves should (and kind of does) resonate with me, personally, I can't get past so many glaring flaws. It's a bloated universe of mangled continuity, rife with esoteric characters that we're actually expected to give a shit about and dredged up storyline minutae. It's basically a literal comic book soap opera in every characteristic and a poster child for everything that's wrong with superhero comics. But goddammit, it could be so much better. There's so much potential. It just needs consistently good writing.
>>80806411
Because, up until Whedon left they were able to tell a variety of stories with a dynamic and every changing cast both in terms of new characters and characters developing in different ways.
I mean in general there had always been at least one good X-Men book until them ie giant sized until new mutants started Uncanny was great, then New Mutants was great until fucking Liefeld. Excaliber was great until canceled, and Gen x was pretty good for the 90s before Morrison and Joss made All New and Uncanny great again
>>80812298
Too bad no Kitty means no Kurt.
I kinda enjoyed AvX. Schism was mostly meh. House of M was fun. Is my taste shit?
>>80812298
Who's that next to Jean? M?
>>80816362
>New Mutants was great until fucking Liefeld
Not really, the post-Inferno, pre-Liefeld stuff dragged.
>>80806411
Because it's a soap opera and it's addictive.
Also in my experience people who read it at its '90s peak of popularity see themselves in the characters - they're perfect for young people to identify with, because they're beautiful outcasts.
So I know a gay guy who found the Legacy Virus story very important to him, as a gay kid before homosexuality was normalized, because it told a story he could identify with. The stories weren't very good but it doesn't matter. They were stories kids could see themselves in.
>>80816362
They were also one of the few superhero books that didn't feel like it was nostalgic. That's because Claremont was anti-nostalgia and kept introducing new characters to freshen it up, and even for a few years after he left, the writers and editors continued to add new characters.
Eventually in the mid-90s it became what all Big Two books are: a nostalgia book running on old characters created for a previous generation, and with new characters unable to become popular. But from 1975 to 1991 it was constantly freshening up. Which is very different from Superman, Batman, Spidey, etc. which run on characters created decades ago.
>>80806411
Great characters, great story/idea. Just solid at its core. The same reason why Spider-Man will always be liked.
>>80806411
People like things you don't like. Shocking, I know.
>>80818369
Depends. It has it's ups and downs. Until recently it was shitty in places better in others but there was balance. There were amazing arcs along with shitty arcs. It wasn't all pointless drivel. At least until Bendis took over and he and aaron continually raped the x-men because they didn't feel like understanding who the fuck they were writing.
Marvel seems to purposely be sabotaging the line and it still seems to be thriving when it honestly shouldn't. Not when the characters are written like they currently are. not when the stories are fucking terrible.
Peter david was the last good writer and with X-factor cancelled it's pretty much the only thing that was keeping x-men readable.
>>80817880
I've been asking that same damned question for almost 20 years.
M wasn't yet created when that was drawn.
Half of the femae characters are human girlfriends... so... ?
>>80806411
Joss's run was good. Did a great job of showing how as much as they'd love to just be good guys, doing so would also be resigning to extinction
>>80815176
And anyone can get bitten by radioactive spidet or struck by lightning while working in lab.
>>80824169
Didn't Angel have a black cop girlfriend before ending up with Betsy for maximum Disdain for Plebs?
>>80827789
>>80824169
>>80817880
That's Stevie Hunter, debuted as Kitty's ballet teacher, then kinda hung out with them for awhile.
Colorful.
Flashy.
Lots of drama.
Dealt with adult oriented issues in ways I understood as a boy.
Rogue was my first comic book waifu.
>>80806411
They're cool.
I mean for me that was it. I started comics about 4 years before those covers came out (i bought all of them and still own them). X-men were when I read them instantly what made me a lifelong marvel fan and x-men fan. I think theyre treated like garbage now, but the reason i've always liked them since the age of like 10 is because theyre fucking cool.
Theyre the outsider, theyre strange and different and the world is unable to accept them. They aren't like the avengers, theyre outcasts and I felt like an outcast. I was kind of a fat little nerd who most people didnt like. I looked to x-men and to me that was a super group I could be in if I was in the marvel universe. Some strange person unfit for the normal world, but accepted into this cool secret school that trains people with strange and unusual powers to save the people who hate and fear them.
They had the coolest powers, and costumes, and my fav villains. They had beast, and psylocke, and storm, and fucking WOLVERINE, and collosus and even stuck up Cyclops had his moments. Their villain kinda had a logic to him. Magneto wanted his people to endure and take their rightful place in the world. And holy shit when I first read apocalypse, he was my fav villain for all time.
The claremont stories were awesome, the X crossover events (NOT ONSLAUGHT) were kick ass to my young eyes. Age of Apocalypse is still my all time fav event. And then after i kinda got out of comics a few years when i came back...BOOM grant morrison is blowing my fucking mind issue after issue after issue. Then BOOM AGAIN Joss Whedon blowing my mind with every story he told.
For me I love and will always love x-men because theyre the kids who nobody accepted but in the end theyre the smart ones, the cool ones, the mysterious and dangerous ones. They're the Breakfast Club of super heroes.
>>80822954
Yeah x-men now is just a goddamn travesty. I mean Between Remender and Peter David....honestly when your two high points in years are a fucking run on X-force and X-factor you know something is fucked up.
>>80806411
It used to have long interesting story arcs that didn't just involve fighting and would add new villains/worlds. Now its just infighting in 6-12 issue arcs to fit in trades or sprawling crossovers events that have lost their novelty and my interest.
>>80828304
The Legacy run with Legion was the last one I enjoyed.
>>80806411
There's tons of different reasons for different people:
There's an element of perversity about the X-Men, lots of weird body-horror, this is the kind of stuff that's relatible to pubescent kids who won't find Superman dealing with these kinds of problems.
Social rejects and outcasts find them to be kindred spirits who can offer a positive philosophy for dealing with society's rejection.
The mish-mash of different types of very unique people thrown together by circumstance and despite themselves being there to support each other is far more dramatic and realistic than other superhero teams.
There's a great deal of soap-opera melodrama snuck into the stories that appeal to a larger audience than one would want to admit.
There's a sort of realism in the idealism that this comic offers, you don't really get the underpinning, that hatred on a cultural level is something to be fought heroically because it makes victims of us all, in any other comic.
And of course, I just read it because I'm a mutant myself. ... metaphorically, of course.
>>80822954
The main books turned to shit around the time House of M happened. They just haven't had a clue where to go from there and it's been one misguided direction after another one.
