Is he right?
I think American animation is a lot less ambitious but as far as technical skill is concerned they're the same.
>>78980339
>America never mastered 2D animation
What is Fantasia?
Technically, anime is probably better.
However in terms of execution, it's picked up a lot of really really bad habits - particularly in shounen. So much of it is formulaic, predictable, bland and 'safe'.
>>78980412
we should probably try to separate content from medium before anyone tries to start a slap fight about it
>>78980339
Anime doesn't even have lip synched dialogue
>>78980448
>implying
I'm pretty sure he never said this and it's edit on level of the Miyazaki ones.
>>78980492
SPOOKY OUGI
>>78980531
I'm sure american animators can make an Akira if they wanted. Problem is there would no one financing or organizing such a project.
>>78980339
it depends. low budget US animation is about 1000x better than low budget anime,
in the US it is bare minimum that you animate on twos or ones, never threes or fours like you see in Japan, in the US you have to lip sync even if it's bad it was matched up to existing audio, in Japan you just flap the mouth and let them figure out dialog later. even low budget animation in the US will sometimes use moving holds, anticipation, and dramatic well silhouetted poses. I've never seen that happen in low budget anime.
but when your talking about the high budget stuff it's more opinion based, because on high budget stuff you see very similar use of all the elements of animation and there are pretty big stylistic differences which is easy to confuse with technical elements, most people aren't going to notice how well weighted characters are, they are more likely to just look at modern appeal vs dated appeal.
>>78980339
In terms of animation, sure, anime looks better. But that's it most of the time. A whole lot of style with the nothing really good to go along with it. There's just as many anime masterpieces as there are for the West.
Trying to put one over the other is stupid.
Also, inb4 "anime is in the stars while the west is in the sand" or whatever bs quote it was.
thank you spooky ougi
"Cartoons were a mistake" - Walt Disney
>>78980706
Something animated on 2's or 1's isn't better than 3's and 4's, that how Japan does it. It's their style and way of life. You're looking too much at the Illusion of Life method while the Japanese may exactly adhere to that but that's okay.
It's like comparing hamburgers and sushi, both are good but different. Different is good.
>>78980800
*may not exactly
I'm such a baka.
>>78980706
The big difference is that low budget anime and low budget cartoons are on very different levels of cost. Anime can be on a shoestring budget, but even cheap cartoons are a good level above that.
Also, there's a lot more anime every season then there is even cartoons in a year. That leads to a huge range of quality. There's good and bad and everything in the middle. It's just the business model that they chose.
>>78980339
Fantasia is the first thing that came to mind.
>>78980800
>I am full of shit
>>78980339
Then why did Japan never produce anything on the level of Fantasia or Pinnochio?
>>78980886
>I have literally never seen an anime but I'm going to run my mouth anyway
Alright buddy.
>>78980886
I'm pretty sure literally every movie Satoshi Kon or Miyazaki ever made has easily blown both of those out of the water.
>>78980886
Money, duh.
>>78980886
Yo.
>>78980912
I'd be anxious to put most of Kon's stuff in the same kind of "raw animation" as Fantasia or Pinocchio, but he certainly was cut short with his death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-QpfLV8dQw
>>78980912
What are you? Ignorant?
I can't believe Don Bluth is a weeaboo!
>>78981009
>but he certainly was cut short with his death.
His death is such a big loss for animation.
If you haven't seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz49vQwSoTE&ab_channel=EveryFrameaPainting
At least, there's still Mamoru Hosoda.
>>78981193
I love that video, and EFaP.
>>78980886
Did you not read the OP image?
Besides, cherry picking is silly anyway. This type of thinking just boxes people in and makes them less accepting of different styles. Sure the classic Disney style is wonderful, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to go. Something like FLCL or Jin-Roh is just as great to me animation wise.
>>78981193
Wolf Children is great. Fuck the son though, ungrateful little faggot.
>>78980448
This. There's such a weird standard of quality in anime, or rather, lack thereof. Not only do the lips not sync to the dialogue, but often times they don't event start running their mouth animation cycles at the correct times. Characters are constantly moving their mouths with no sound coming out. It looks lazy as fuck.
>>78980494
101 Dalmations is fucking awesome. It was my favorite Disney movie as a kid, but I haven't seen it in like, 20 years for some reason. Time for a torrent, I think.
>>78981504
>Not only do the lips not sync to the dialogue, but often times they don't event start running their mouth animation cycles at the correct times. Characters are constantly moving their mouths with no sound coming out. It looks lazy as fuck.
What the fuck kind of anime are you watching?
>>78981533
>"Well I don't notice it, so it isn't true"
Open your eyes. I don't mean that characters go on flapping their lips for an entire scene with no dialogue, but you get the distinct idea that the animators just generally timed the line of dialogue and ran an arbitrary "open-closed-open-closed" lip flap sequence for roughly the amount of time needed. It doesn't always match up. Often, if the VA has a slight pause or a breath in the line, the lips will just keep on going right through it.
Does anime even adhere to the voice before animation process? Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent. I don't imagine that it's very important at all for the human element to come first. It wouldn't surprise me if the animation sweatshops churned out episodes first and then the VAs came in to shoehorn their dialogue in as best they could.
Not that they do that good of a job in the first place. Most dubs match the lip flaps better than the original
>>78981755
>Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent.
How do you know? You don't speak Japanese.
>>78980339
Hes confusing animation quality with final product quality, animation is hit or miss when comparing east and west.
Writing quality tends to heavily favor the east though, the way they monetize anime allows for better writing to show through.
There are exceptions to every rule, but it cant be denied running shows perpetually until ratings drop can really effect quality, look at the AT threads on /co/ these days for a recent example.
>>78980339
These quotes seem like bullshit unless you can provide a source.
>>78981755
>Most dubs match the lip flaps better than the original
>>78981860
>I-It can't be helped
>Don't say such things!
>Is this the true power of ________!?
I guess I should have said the writing wasn't subtle or intelligent. The voice acting may be good, I don't know. But the dialogue itself is so superficial. Characters are never nuanced, they never speak emotions, they only flat out state things, often in an awkward and stilted manner. Across the board, from the cheapest cookie-cutter slice of life show, to the supposed "masterpieces", any sort of character relation or development is done through the same tired archetypes, and even the same regurgitated phrases. It's fine if you can ignore it, because the anime that are good or interesting enough to warrant watching are usually enough of a spectacle that they entertain without actually having any character depth.
>>78981894
>Writing quality tends to heavily favor the east though, the way they monetize anime allows for better writing to show through.
This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific. It's so wooden and rigid. It's like the culture's strict adherence to tradition and archetypes makes the writers afraid to try something new. Even if the concepts of a show sound inventive on paper, they all get approached and executed in the same tired way. It's awful.
>>78982069
>"I can't contribute any evidence to prove otherwise, so I'm just gonna whip a reaction image out of my bottomless folder"
Dubs, especially English dubs, often spend a lot of effort making their spoken dialogue match the lip flaps, which is why so much of it comes out awkward. Part of why, anyway. The other reason is that dubbers never re-write dialogue to sound better anymore, which was more common in older anime dubs. They do a literal translation, which sounds like garbage.
>>78981461
>Wolf Children is great.
His last movie is out this week where I lived. Can't wait!
>>78982214
>The other reason is that dubbers never re-write dialogue to sound better anymore, which was more common in older anime dubs. They do a literal translation, which sounds like garbage.
you're spouting a lot of bullshit, but this is true for a lot of anime. Honestly that's more of just way less budgets for bringing anime over now that we can torrent and stream with subs so much easier
>>78981504
It's because dubbing in Japan is not donethe same. In Occident, when you dub a scene there a paper rolling under the picture with marks indicating when each of the characters starts and finishes to talk. In Japan, they kind of go with the flow, no marks, nothing, so it's a lot less precise.
>>78982214
>This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific.
No way the west writing is often just shit tier extended toy commercials and thats far more often than the east.
Manga tends to break tradition far more than its western equivalent, when is the last time you seen something actually different come from Dc/Marvel compared to WSJ or any of its equivalents?
Youd have to start looking at 2000ad or Darkhorse to even begin to get the quality the MAINSTREAM anime and manga producers put out.
>>78980339
I dont think he ever said that. This seems wrong. Considering Richard Willaim's animation was all about smooth motion, and gesture based expression. most anime is the opposite of that.
>>78982214
Okay, you either haven't watch a lot of anime, are partial to japanese stereotypes but not to occidental ones, or watched mostly bad one.
The way they speak their emotions is a cultural thing. For a long time, I thought japanese va were always exagerating until I heard a group of teenage japanese girls yell in the subway (I don't live in Japan). So no, va are not always going too far.
Do you think Evangelion's characters were a standard 20 years ago? You really think things never change in anime?
Have you seen Shin Sekai yori more recently?
When Anime produces a show as well designed, animated, Voice acted and well written as Steven Universe, then you can say the East has caught up.
As it is now, Anime really doesnt have a leg to stand on, and Steven Universe is the Pinnacle of animation, that all other works needs to measure up against
>>78982600
>>78982637
Show me a scene in anime that can surpass this one, in tone, animation, design, voice acting, action, camera work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JARVfb-FBg
you will not find anything that comes close to equaling it.
>>78982708
I'll have a go when I finish laughing.
>>78981755
>>78982214
>>78982729
Ill lower the bar a bit for you, find something in anime that is better than this whole sequence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3GhYt66Qk
>>78980494
Well that is the work of Milt Kahl so really only proving OP's point.
>>78982827
TOP KEK
O
P
K
E
K
>>78980339
Age ghetto kicked the feet out from under american animation productions.
It's not skill it's funding
>>78982214
Someone needs to watch Shouwa Raguko. Right now.
>>78980412
Gotta follow the money senpai, get that waifu yen and that shonen merch
>>78982600
>>78982708
>>78982827
>>78982600
>Steven Universe is the Pinnacle of animationI know its bait but I'm going to bite
I'm a fan of SU and I'm just going to laugh at you
This thread is cringe. It's so sad to see inept people on /co/ or which is to say everyone on /co/ look at what the worst anime has to offer and think it's the standard all in an attempt ignore the west's mediocrity. Why can't /co/ admit that when it comes to the west, animation is a stagnated medium?
I will admit that anime and manga usually prefers quantity over quality but sadly America has neither.
>>78982949
>>78982947
>>78982867
>>78982827
>>78982791
>>78982729
>>78982708
>>78982637
>>78982600
Samefag
>>78982600
I know this is bait but it still makes me a little mad that there's probably some idiot who genuinely believe this.
>>78982214
It's like you watched Naruto and think all and every single anime is like that. You're a faggot and one of the many problems with what's wrong in /co/. And before you say shit like being a weeb or defending Japan or somehsit. I'm indifferent to anime and I have been a /co/mrade for six years but even I can see how the west treats art and animation like trash.
Watch more anime and read some decent manga, bro before you type up stupid shit.
>>78982600
>>78982708
>>78982827
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NSI5niLQtc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nlS8KU6p4o
Okay some of the people in this thread need to watch some standup comedy.
I'll supply a clip at random.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4
That was chosen at random, I assure you.
>>78983045
come on man your making us SU fans worse then we already are
I think with Japanese animation, animators either go all out (Akira, Little Witch Academia, etc) or just appeal to Moe-fans (Lucky Star, Lucky Star, Lucky Star.)
However, I feel like with American animation, you go with what sells, which is flash animated 'deep' appeal to nostalgia shows, or 3d animation, which isn't AS impressive as old drawn animation, but still neat and pretty..
Great thread guys
>>78980412
>says the superhero-dominated American comics industry
anyone else hate this board
>>78983119
>Summer Wars
>Good
>>78982214
>a language has different idioms to my own!
>that means its shit!
Every language has them.
>>78983530
I hated this board for a long time. I have been here since 2010 and I keeping hoping one day /co/ would stop being so damn liberal and having shit taste. Protip: they didn't.
>>78983543
>posting SU
It's like you enjoy shitposting.
>>78983530
I hate everything.
>>78980412
This thread is about the animation, not the story.And anime writing is actually garbage except for specific classics like Totoro, Galactic Railway and Moomin.
>>78983530
>>78983733
A correct opinion haver.
>>78983739
>i'm a casual who's only seen three anime at most
>>78983872
Most anime fans have already come to terms with the fact most of the anime they like sucks, why haven't you?
>>78983530
Despite the constant shitposting, /v/ is a better place than this mess.
>>78982984
Because /co/, and most of 4chan for that matter, is full of irrational children.
>>78980800
Animating on 3s and 4s means half as many drawings, which means jerkier animations. Not to mention all the panning stills that they abuse in cheap anime to try and make audiences forget that nothing has actually moved for several seconds.
>>78983920
At least /v/ is honest with their awfulness and they can be pretty fun at times if you know where to look. /co/ is such a damn drag. It's like this place is full of girls and normies.
>>78982600
>When Anime produces a show as well designed, animated, Voice acted and well written as Steven Universe, then you can say the East has caught up.
Congratulations, anon. You've managed to fall into circular logic in one single argument.
>>78982708
This scene is nice with a funny DBZ + Sonic reference but stop baiting, please?
>>78980339
TAKE A SHIT IN HIS MOUTH AND FIND OUT
>>78983900
They should stop watching moe shit and the last successful shounen.
![quality[1].png_w=780.png](https://i.imgur.com/jBpuWYL.png "quality[1].png_w=780.png")
>Japanese animation
How many threads are we gonna have about western animation vs eastern animation today? Was alan rickman a weeaboo?
>>78985140
>Super
No one is gonna fall for it.
>>78985194
Is he was then he's knows it's the superior animated medium.
>>78985140
>japanese animation
>>78982888
Trips for fucking 19 year old girls.
>>78985297
What is that from?
>>78985623
Bobby's in Deep!
>>78985297
So was this rotoscoped like Take On Me, or nah?
>>78985692
Animated entirely by hand.
>>78982708
People like this shit?
>>78983900
You must be really young and stupid to think this. The past few years do not represent anime as a whole.
What's so good about these replies is
1. Nobody realises that Richard Williams never said this, it's all fake subtitles.
and
2. OP or whoever made that image must be a big fan of animation to know to mention Inoue, Okiura et al because atypical to 'anime' style, those animators create beautiful movement using many frames, so everyone arguing anime 'looks better but doesn't move better' has Inoue to answer to.
OP who are you you big sakuga nerd
>>78987482
>I literally haven't ever met one single japanese animator: the post
>>78987482
>No one realises Richard Williams never said this
Nigga please. It's not about who said it, it's about what it is.
Who's your favourite Japanese director, /co/?
>>78987531
what can you tell us from your fateful meeting then
>>78987566
Which is why I went on to make point #2. He's not citing anime in general, but those superstar one-of-a-kind animators whose work does rival that of Kahl, Tytla and the like.
>>78987645
Akiyuki Shinbo
>>78987723
>one of a kind animator
But there are so many great animators in Japan?
I'm going to generalize the hell out of both mediums that are biased from my own experiences from the two and I don't even watch anime that much so I'm sure I'm going to get many replies, probably valid, disputing me and proving that I'm a dumbass but whatever:
>Animation
Japan>America
>Writing
America>Japan
![Fantastic-Planet[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yiRGRoO.jpg "Fantastic-Planet[1].jpg")
French animation was here.
Ya'll a bunch of bustas.
>>78980492
>>78980574
>CQC Bro
nice trollpost
>>78980886
>I have never watched any anime ever.
Yes, thank you for telling us this.
>>78982637
Sauce please
>>78980408
a bunch of different Disney animation shorts that varies art styles, directors and genres, some are good and others are completely meh. the jap equivalent to Fantasia is Genius party
The fact that even the most high budgeted Japanese animations still rely on stoic pans and lack of lip sync after 60 years says otherwise.
Stealth weeaboo thread is exactly that.
I grew out of watching Anime because of everything I had to complain about "local" animation was more pronounced in Anime. The whole commercial for toys/games is practically 80% of the anime/manga that gets sent this way, and the left-overs are all rehashed cultural situation based fluff. I'm cool with watching a movie that is interesting or is aesthetically pleasing (mostly Studio Gib. stuff, but even that can get moony and stupid looking). I get that there are cultural shorthands that western types will not naturally understand because that's just normal (or normal for whatever place it's from anyhow).
Ultimately, I am happier watching "western" style cartoons though because I don't need a history lesson to understand the context of why X-person is tapping on their shoulder and wriggling their eyebrow. I'm rewarded for watching in a more useful way than "What is the story of the three clay pots, and what fucking meaning does it impart onto the plot? WHY DO I NEED TO KNOW THIS? Why did they spend 17 minutes explaining how this guy is such the greatest fighter ever and how he used the dull side of his blade so as not to draw a single drop of blood, you know how I can tell someone is a good fighter? When they kick all the ass."
>>78987645
fucking "Robot Carnival" was amazing, and that story gave me more feels than everything else in anime ever. Battle Angel Alita is a decent 2nd though.
>>78989928
>i don't want to think at all when watching something
>>78989615
they are deep, you just don't understand!
>>78990005
>duh derp duhrrrrrr!
That's what you sound like, fucktard.
>>78985611
You mean adult women?
>>78980706
>in Japan you just flap the mouth and let them figure out dialog later.
Zettai Shounen just pans at the character's feet or back of the head during telephone conservations....
>>78980339
USA prefer live action
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-14/alan-rickman-dies-from-cancer-aged-69/7089984
>>78980706
Are people really bothered by mouth flaps?
>>78989192boku girl
>>78980412
as if western cartoon are any better. the bulk of western animation is for kids and very rarely does anything particularly ambitous come out.
Meanwhile there's some more interesting stuff coming out from some more auteur driven animation like pig related
>>78990642
le maison de petits cubes was also pretty ambitious for a japanese project
>>78983893
I'd be interested to see the data and methods behind this.
>>78990693
>le maison de petits cubes
that looks really european though
kickheart is awesome also
>>78983893
I must be a newfriend, because I don't remember when this poll was taken.
>>78990585
when you've spent hours matching mouth flaps and shapes to dialog, then it really bugs the shit out of you. I liked anime a lot more before I animated anything.
also it brings in elements I think are terrible personally, a lot of odd drawn out dialog and a lot of horrific sighing and grunting for no reason. great voice acting is a huge factor in the quality of the final product.
>>78992656
But consider the quality of the average TV show, they don't put the costs into inane shit like that, rather they put more into the more costly and well drawn out scenes.
>>78980886
> Hi I was born in 2003!
Good job ignoring Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Record of Lodoss War, Venus Wars, Demon City Shinjuku or any of about 40-ish titles that all surpassed those what 2-3 Disney movies from 70+ years ago.
>>78992826
>Demon City Shinjuku
Neo Tokyo was better senpai
>>78990624
Oh yeah.
Wonder what would be made if somehow the exact same situation of an anime studio was made in the US.
If by some weird chance, miracle, or wish from a genie there was a studio that made animation that was
>Focused on character design quality (albeit their own overly stylized version)
>was willing to throw a large budget at it
>had a legion of animators perfectly willing to do 60+ hour weeks while earning about $22K a year doing it
>They are only paid for 40 of those 60 hours
>barely pay the original author/creator anything at all in terms of royalties and they are happy just to see their work on screen
Could the US squeeze an Akira out of that situation?
>>78983754
The Foolkiller was such a good storytime
>>78980339
Where is this from? Seems interesting.
>>78993105
Akira was high budget passion project, the goal was to push the boundary of how good animation could be, it's not the typical production mill stuff your describing. granted if the US was set up like that it would probably bring the technical quality down quite a bit.
>>78980339
I know that's a troll image, but the Japanese aren't as good character animators compared to their American counterparts. The former makes up for that by being better all-rounders though.
>>78992768
your confusing aesthetics with the technical aspects of animation. skipping lip sync for a well rendered painting you pan over isn't an option in the west. in fact several low budget cartoons did both in the US, Ren and Stimpy, early Spongebob, Cow and Chicken, Flapjack, granted mostly for gross out shots, but you can manage both in the west on a cable tv show budget, may be higher than a typical anime's budget I don't know, but it is what it is for comparisons sake.
I think we are all looking at this the very wrong way. Trying to compare two subjects for an objective conclusion is not possible. Let's look at this situation in two scenarios.
High budget animation comes to the same technical level between America and Japan. The focus differs greatly between the two. Japan likes fluidity and detail in production, ranging from the action-packed Akira to the delicate landscapes of Garden of Words. The emphasis on beauty might give the impression that it is technically better at face value. American animation is definitely geared more towards character acting. While Anime was brushing up on its backgrounds animators like Milt Kahl were studying things like the walking pattern of a cat very intensely. Or maybe the flight motions of a bird. Things to incorporate into acting. If the characters felt truly alive, you would get a better impression of those characters. How many minor characters in major anime movies can you name compared to western ones?
On the low budget, it's a different story. Similar to how the American entertainment market is riddled like cancer with rehashed-to-the-bone movies and a hopeful-yet-very-tired television shows, Japan has mass market anime. And like the US's movies and TV shows, they are mostly a commercial market looking for products guaranteed to sell. Thus, lots of rehashed concepts and shit. Even Japan's drawing styles for anime have mutated to the point of being called "inbred" from borrowing so much from other artists.
They are both the same. They have flaws and good traits. Whichever is better is based on your preference.
>>78993680
Anime has to deal with lower drawing counts; the norm tends to be around 3000 to 5000 frames for a 20 minute episode. Western cartoons average around 10000 in comparison. That amount is only reserved for special episodes in anime.
If you haven't watched this Film Board of Canada short, you have no right to post anything in this thread.
https://vimeo.com/12663186
Funny how everyone on /co/ ignores shorts and art-house.
>>78993826
It's more like American and Japanese have different approaches to character animation. The American animator is concerned about how a motion is going to express the character's emotion and personality in a scene, while the Japanese animator thinks about how the motion can be portrayed.
Americans also have a very different style choice for characters.
Since the 50's American animators seem to like totally designing their own character to their own tastes. It's not totally a budget thing. They actually appreciate a completely individual appearance even if it means tube arms, no necks, and giant eyes.
Japanese try harder to conform to a set design with human shape. And it comes off as adhering to a natural design more than westerners.
>>78980445
This
>>78993956
I watch Japanese shorts though.
>>78981009
>>78981193
I couldn't give less of a shit about anime but Paprika is one of my favourite films. The star that burns twice as bright burns half as along and all that.
>Is he right?
No.
Threads like these are like watching people argue about which terminal cancer patient looks healthier
East
West
Animation is fucked and largely regarded as children's stuff when it can be so much more
>>78996958
The topic is about the actual animation you idiot.
>>78996894
Japan has a lot of problems with overworker employees, not only in animation studios.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5bVWzTyJ7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po8IPh64rVM
>>78998867
>tfw Japan is slowly killing itself
;_;
>>78989296
>the jap equivalent to Fantasia is Robot Carnival
ftfy
https://youtu.be/PgsPIX4dQAc
>>78983045
> 8 out of 9
not bad, actually.
For art, however...
>>79002811
This doesn't really hold water. The Japs could've totally gone for a more realistic aesthetic in their art. Just look at the clothing in that picture on the guy in the 'Japan' section, for example.
Their art followed the aesthetic of their kabuki theater, though, and was purposely stylized to suit their cultural needs.
>>79002974
A lot of thing could've totally happened.
But they didn't.
Honestly I think Star Vs has the best animation right now
I'd probably put Super Jail second
>>79003600
Therefore all that follows must be regarded as shit because one piece of art dictates it as such?
Come the fuck on
>>78987645
Yuasa
>>78980448
>>78992656
Consider that the japanese language is full of vowels and you open your mouth a lot more than you would with other western languages
>>78980339
No, he isn't right.
>>78980412
A lot of anime looks good on the surface but the actual animation itself is static
>>79005080
Western cartoons are actually worse at this
they mask this with extreme closeups, brighter colors, and smears
>>78997151
these threads always devolve into pissing contests retard
>OP is clearly talking about the quality of animated feature films
>Thread turns into an argument about TV shows
Every fucking time
>>78980978
>funded by americans
>>78980978
God, I fucking hate cyberpunk.
Jesus Christ, this thread. And weeaboos wonder why everybody hates them.
>>78980339
Old ass fucking weeb, go back to hot gluing your figures.
Okay, I've watched a lot of the so-called anime "masterpieces" and I'd like to know if this is really the best anime has to offer.
>Akira
Actually good. One of the few anime I'd admit to liking.
>Ghost in the Shell
Trash
>Spirited Away
Decent
>Princess Mononoke
Decent
>Totoro
Decent
>Angel's Egg
Mediocre
>End of Evangelion
Mediocre
>Jin-Roh
Mediocre
>Paprika
Mediocre
>Perfect Blue
Mediocre
>>79007770
Yes. And if you think there's more than a couple of non-Japanese 2d animated movies that can compare in animation quality to any of those made these last 20 years I'd like to know them.
>>79007770
I think you just don't appreciate visuals enough. It's not for you. Understand that almost every film you listed has an appeal that can't be satisfied by 99% of western animation, even if you don't see it.
>>79004111
It's called "bait" anon. You actually aren't supposed to reply to it.
"Hi, remember when there were those scattered episodes of your favorite cartoon that had animation that was above and beyond? That was me."
American 2D animation never really went anywhere. People talk about Disney as being "full animation," but their animation and movies in general were very limited in scope. Disney's overinflated reputation is a result of ignorance, low standards and nationalism.
>>78980582
They really couldn't, and it's preposterous that you think they could. They don't have the skill, and these days there's hardly even any 2D animation being made in America. Anime's animation and character design style is also not something you can just do on a whim. Very few Western artists are able to draw a convincing looking anime (or manga) style character (I say "very few," but I've actually never seen it done).
>>78980706
It's a popular myth that animation quality is decided by the number of frames, but nothing could be further from the truth.
All this complaining about lack of lip syncing is just people grasping at straws, desperately trying to find some way of propping up American animation.
>>78980743
>There's just as many anime masterpieces as there are for the West.
>Trying to put one over the other is stupid.
Anime is objectively superior.
>>78981755
>Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent.
Even if that were true, it would still be vastly more subtle and intelligent than American voice acting.
>>78982214
>But the dialogue itself is so superficial. Characters are never nuanced, they never speak emotions, they only flat out state things, often in an awkward and stilted manner.
>This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific.
Translation: "I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about."
>It's like the culture's strict adherence to tradition and archetypes makes the writers afraid to try something new.
Projection ahoy. It's American animation that does virtually nothing except children's entertainment and adult comedy. It's anime that does, roughly speaking, everything live action does.
>>78987969
HAAAAHAAAA
>>78983530
More and more, every day. There's almost no reason to visit now that /aco/ exists.
>>79007078
>God, I fucking hate cyberpunk.
I cannot comprehend why you would hate cyberpunk.
>>78993956
>Funny how everyone on /co/ ignores shorts and art-house.
I don't understand, why would I do that? There are no waifus. There is no shipping. They've never aired on CN, Nick, or Disney? So why bother.
>>79002974
>cultural needs
lol, wut?
>>78983893
>100 isn't even half the height of 139
The fuck?
>>78983193
>>79002562
Which one is real?
>>78983327
This makes no sense. You are comparing movies and OVAs with TV shows, and there is no "moe" animation style.
>>78984486
Sometimes people don't move. That actually happens in real life too.
>>78987766
American animation does barely anything except children's entertainment and adult comedy. How could its writing even begin to compete with anime?
>>78989615
This obsession with lip syncing really is curious.
>>78989928
So you watched a couple of shounen shows, and now you think you know all about anime and "grew out of it." Ok.
>>78993105
Frozen had a budget of $150 million. The Wind Rises had a budget of $30 million. American shows seem to typically have their episodes in production for 9 months, whereas in the same amount of time an entire 12 episode anime show could be produced from start to finish (not including pre-production). A voice actor on The Simpsons costs more per episode than the entire production budget of one anime episode. Animators in Japan are paid less (in the beginning of their careers) than they would be in America, but it's not like the Koreans who handle most American animation are paid much either. Anime also has much smaller budgets and tighter schedules. Animators have to be good and they have to be fast, and the production pipeline has to be efficient.
Arguing that anime only looks so good because of slave labor or some other kind of jewery is just rationalization. America never cared about animation as much as Japan, never took it as seriously, and never invested as much effort into it. Disney did put effort into their animation, but it was so narrow in its focus that it was only good for making Disney movies.
And you really underestimate the difficulty of realistic, high quality animation and filmmaking if you think you can just pay some people a lot of money and they'll somehow make it happen. Who exactly is going to animate it? The producers would probably just outsource it to Japan.
>>78990891
>data and methods behind this
>implying
>>78987969
>>79008714
Daily reminder.
>>78983119
>"Those are our lives you are talking about!"
Does Japan have a gambling problem?
>>78993487
American character animation is very cartoonish and uses simple designs and camera work.
>>78993826
Disney's animation is like a toolbox that only contains a hammer. It's the greatest hammer ever made and you'll never pound nails better with any other hammer, but you'll also never do anything except pound nails. That is to say, Disney's animation is highly limited. It's great for cartoonishly exaggerated hyper-fluid character acting, singing, dancing and physical comedy, and that's about all it's great for. Anime animation is highly flexible and suited for any kind of storytelling, and can scale from amateur productions to TV shows to high end movies.
>Thus, lots of rehashed concepts and shit.
You are assuming that rehashing something necessarily makes it bad, and that making something original necessarily makes it good.
>Even Japan's drawing styles for anime have mutated to the point of being called "inbred" from borrowing so much from other artists.
Funny how nobody ever says anything like this about Western arts. That's because the unspoken logic here is that Japanese arts are only good when they borrow from Western arts.
>They are both the same.
They couldn't possibly be any more different.
>>79008662
Though I think you're weebing out a bit I agree. All the talented animators in the west just make slapstick for kids. I think a big factor is the west has moved away from 2D and moved to CGI, which they are the best at, despite being over-funded.
>>78996894
How does that invalidate what he (supposedly) said?
>>78996958
But it already is more in Japan.
>>78996958
I don't even care about anime and know you're retarded.
There are 0 legitimate opportunities to work in animation outside of children's stuff in the west.
There are definitely more than 0 in the east.
>>79008276
>>>/a/
You'll be more at home there, weeb.
99% of anime is trash, and 99% of that trash is porn created for pervert otaku.
There are probably as many masterpiece animes as there are western cartoons.
You're posting this on /co/, though, so you clearly were just looking for a (You).
>>79008918
Atleast it puts more than ramen on the table.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BPTNdmdJSc
>>79009031
>You'll be more at home there, weeb.
Why don't you complain to the OP rather than me? I didn't make this thread.
>99% of anime is trash, and 99% of that trash is porn created for pervert otaku.
TV anime can't even show nipples, and sex of any kind--even off-screen--is very rare. You're just spouting memes and buzzwords because you have no idea what you're talking about.
>There are probably as many masterpiece animes as there are western cartoons.
American animation is virtually nothing but children's entertainment and adult comedy, and very cheap-looking outside of feature films. Western animation at large has more serious works, but not many. There's also less animation made than in Japan.
>>78980574
thank you spooky ougi
>>79009093
Wonder how much that kind of thing affected how much they put food in their movies.
>>79009128
Well, considering I never even specified TV anime, or even said TV in general, nice strawman.
https://hanime.tv/
You wanna try another argument? This all looks like anime porn to me.
>>78983893
>Most of 4chan is smarter than the average person
>Like 10 boards are in the top 5% of intelligence
lol ok
>>79009181
Hentai is separate from the rest of anime, just like porn in America is separate from television and cinema. Hentai has also diminished significantly since the 80s - early 00s.
Here's what's actually airing this season:
http://anichart.net/winter
>>79009257
You're completely dodging my point. I don't care what is airing on TV over in "muh glorious nippon". I don't even care what's airing over here.
>Hentai is separate from the rest of anime
Hentai is still anime. It's animation from Japan. Anime. There is still a shit ton of anime porn, and it's all trash.
>>79008800
>American character animation is very cartoonish and uses simple designs and camera work.
There's nothing wrong with a cartoony approach to animation, it's not inherently inferior or superior. Also, there are numerous skilled Japanese animators who have a cartoony approach to their work.
Western designs do tend to be simpler, but that allows for animators to put more effort into animating. Frankly, anime could stand to benefit from simpler designs too.
The camerawork in cartoons are simpler since they are supposed to be presented like a stage play, where the full figure of the actor is shown. This is why western animators are like actors, where they have to consider the personalities and emotions and convey it.
>You have never seen ghost in the shell, record of lodoss war, yadda yadda yadda
Yeah, seen 'em all. The animation and art is really nothing to cry home about. I'd rather watch something from France.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgD2ALDhlwc
>>79009327
I've seen better animation in Metropolis.
>>78982600The irony of this is two fold. I've been watching Zeta Gundam and loving the shit out of it.
>>79007078
>>79008738
>Does Japan have a gambling problem?
Kinda.
Pachinko is still very big and it's essentially legalized gambling.
As if that's a real quote. Williams fucking adored several American animators.
>>78982362
>No way the west writing is often just shit tier extended toy commercials and thats far more often than the east.
So exactly like Japan wherein all the fig buying otakus are basically paying for the show.
>>79009421
Yeah except the figures are good.
>>79009432
That's the dumbest retort I've ever heard. Congratulations anon, you've outed yourself as a retarded weeaboo.
>>79009453
lol ok
Have fun with your Funko.
>>79009453
Well it's less a retort as it is,
"western cartoons are toy commercials, as is anime, but, the toys for anime are actually good."he's not wrong.
>>79009473
>implying I buy toys
I'm an adult anon. Nice assumption though.
>>79009473
>implying I litter my house with plastic shit
>>79009480
Also posting that image was a mistake.
Sorry.
>>79009421
>otakus are basically paying for the show
That hasn't been thing since, I think, '09 or so. It's all about fujobucks now.
>>79009308
Porn is still live action... except nobody's ever going to make the argument you're making and apply it to American television and cinema. Because it would be retarded.
Again, hentai is separate from the rest of anime just like porn is separate from other live action in America. It's completely irrelevant to TV and cinema anime. There was a time when it was a little more relevant, when OVAs were still popular, but even then it was a niche thing.
You are making a complete bullshit argument and have no idea what you're talking about.
>>79009311
Cartoon animation is fine when you're making a cartoon. It is not fine when you're trying to make cinematic animation and trying make works in many different genres about many different subject matters, which is what anime is about. Therefore cartoon animation is inherently inferior.
>Western designs do tend to be simpler, but that allows for animators to put more effort into animating.
But it's very limited animation. And it's not like the character designs are somehow separate from the animation; the more complex the designs are, the more difficult and impressive is to animate them, and the better the animation looks (all else being equal).
>The camerawork in cartoons are simpler since they are supposed to be presented like a stage play, where the full figure of the actor is shown. This is why western animators are like actors, where they have to consider the personalities and emotions and convey it.
Yes. This is one of the major limitations of American animation.
>>79009498
Then why are you here watching western cartoons?
>>79009527
Maybe he's not.
Maybe he's here to shitpost.
>>79009513
How could that be the case for shows outside the fujoshi demographic
>>79009540
DVD/BDs newfag.
>>79009540
>>79009401
This. He would never look up to the inferior Japanese animators. The works of the latter lack the 12 principles of animation. Anime violates so many principles of animation—where’s the squash and stretch? The secondary action?
>>79009526
Holy shit, you must be autistic and retarded.
It's anime. I don't care if you don't like this idea, because you're wrong as all hell. Western cartoon porn is porn, and yet somehow it's still a cartoon. The same applies to Japanese cartoon porn. Not only that, but you're comparing anime porn to live action porn as if that helps your argument in any way.
Are you too dense to understand this, or just that autistic that you have to defend your "precious nippon".
>>79009540
Most shows that aren't marketed towards fujos are flopping like flies. It'll all be over soon.
Anything that has female protagonists is inherently shit and anime has tons of those. Ergo, anime is shit.
>>79009623
Don't you talk shit about my Zeta Gundam.
>>79009594
You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>79009629
Mechashit is inherently shit too.
>>79009623
>>79009640
Quit it with the funposting.
>>79009640
ok
>>79009630
Nice comeback. I'll just assume you're too ass flustered to even understand what I'm saying.
Anime is shit. It's all hentai and nobody gives a fuck about the stuff that isn't hentai or shonen otaku virgins.
If you fags want to discuss anime and how "superior" it is to western anime, there's a board specifically designed to contain your autism.
>>>/a/
>>79009675
Spoonfeed baby.
I am a fan of 80's and 90's anime.
>>79009687
>it's all hentai
No.
>nobody gives a fuck
Generalizing, no again.
>western anime
There is no such thing.
>this whole thread
Those are some top tier bait lads, keep em coming.
>>79009708
riding bean
>>79009421
Figures are not toys, and the primary factors of commercial success for a show are sales of the source material and disc sales.
>>79009513
Is this the latest meme or something? Fujoshi anime is in the minority.
>>79009594
>It's anime.
"It's live action." The exact same thing can be said about porn. Except, again, nobody is going to say that. Because it's completely retarded.
Hentai has nothing to do with TV and cinema anime, and was a minor thing even during the OVA heydays. You are grasping at straws in a desperate attempt to find something, anything, to attack anime with. And making yourself look like a complete moron in the process.
>>79009687
>nobody gives a fuck about the stuff that isn't hentai
Except it's completely the opposite, with nobody giving a fuck about the hentai. Even ecchi anime is of minor importance compared to everything else.
>or shonen otaku virgins.
What in the hell is this even supposed to mean? Did you just string together words at random?
>If you fags want to discuss anime and how "superior" it is to western anime, there's a board specifically designed to contain your autism.
Again, why aren't you complaining to OP? He's the one who made the thread.
>western anim
The what now?
>>79009729
I think I'm gonna go for stardust memory after I watch zeta gundam/ double zeta gundam.
It was on toonami years back and I never saw it. How was the art and animation in it?
>>79009770
I'm not sure, I don't watch Gundam. Just stuff like Lupin III.
>>78980574
thank you spooky ougi
>>79009762
>Fujoshi anime is in the minority.
And yet those are in the majority that even manage to cross the 10k+ line in sales. Soon it'll be nothing but fujo pandering.
>>79009717
Maybe by western anime they meant this?
>>79009762
>Figures are not toys
They're both models of characters. It's the purchasing motive whether the consumer is 8, 18 or 28
>>79009892
This is really reminiscent of gundam.
At least for a second there.
>>78982268
Pioneer/Geneon's dub of Red Jacket Lupin III was amazing. Shame it'll never be finished.
I think we can all agree that France > Japan > America
>>79009513
>>79009892
I never liked how that animation looked. Far too choppy.
>>79009907
Japan > France > shit > America
>>79009892
What is this and why do I have to suffer through Rebels instead of this?
