Why do people say that "men will never understand" saga?
isnt it written by a man?
who are these "people"? tumblr accounts?
>>78595844
It's a meme, you dip.
fucking everything is a meme now
>>78595844
>Why do people say that "men will never understand" saga?
I am 100% positive nobody has ever seriously said this.
>I can't believe people say [Thing no human has actually said]
>>78595844
It's Romeo and Juliet in space with a baby. What's there to not understand?
>>78595844
I hate that the new arc is YET ANOTHER fucking timeskip, but we got more of IV and his son so everything is forgiven.I can't wait for Squire and Hazel to meet.
>>78595844
I don't believe a real person said this
But in the newest trade, I did cringe at the lines about how "women always suffer the most in war, even when they're not doing the fighting." Like, what the fuck?
>>78596312
the line was delivered by a girl, raised in great part by her grandmother in a women's prison, after several personal experiences of women being shat on by war. It's perfectly fine in context.
>>78596312
Hilary Clinton also said that women are the ones who suffer most from war.
>>78596312
Well they're losing their sons and father and brothers and husbands. That's what I assume what the line meant.
>>78596447
As opposed to the men...who have to fucking die.
>>78596312
Dead man can't suffer. Because they're dead.
>>78596447
Those sons and fathers and brothers and husbands kinda lose their lives though. I'm not sure, but I think being dead kinda sucks, since you cease to exist and whatnot.
>>78596480
> dead vs survivor's guilt + losing your family
anon, please.
>>78596480
>>78596520
Everybody dies and Death is usually the end of pain and suffering. Widows and orphans get to live tho, without their live ones.
>>78596376
That's fair, but I felt this line stuck out among Hazel's other narrations which were a bit more impartial and straightforward in their tongue-in-cheekness.
>>78596405
>>78596447
>>78596480
>>78596487
>>78596520
There, now you all get a (you).
>>78596312
I've noticed /co/ seems to have a lot of trouble when it comes to understanding when a character's lines are just true to the character or when they're the writer's genuine thoughts.
>>78596607
>Bending this far back for shillary
>>78596608
No (You)
>>78596376
No it isn't. It's stupid regardless of context.
The people being shot, burned, exploded, and dismembered suffer plenty. War's not a contest to see which gender gets shat on the most. It's a silly phrase parroted by feminist loonies.
>>78596607
>Implying all orphans are girls
>>78596608
joke's on you, anon
>>78596798
Not all but some. Just like how not all widows would be women either but the point is that most soldiers who see combat are men and their deaths affect their love ones.
>>78596752
how dare a character have a view different from yours!
Also, we have a lot of oppinions regarding war in the comic: Dengo's was that children suffered the most in conflict, IV clearly thinks that soldiers don't receive enough support, Marko supports civilians, and so on.
>>78596615
Sort of. /co/'s problem is more than all character lines are treated as if they're being delivered by the writers.
>>78596752
Goddammit anon if you want to bitch about feminists go to /pol/
>>78596865
But you're saying that death isn't a horrible end by claiming women suffer more in war. I would rather live than die. So would the men who die in war. Trying to make their fear, pain, and suffering less legitimate by comparing it to the fear, pain, and suffering of women is, forgive me, sexist. You're claiming the men who fight, are tortured, and die in war have it easier than the women who do not.
Again, it's a silly feminist notion.
>>78596896
>strawman
>>78596930
But someone posted the comic here.
>>78596933
There's nothing particularly feminist about it. In fact, if it's sexist as you claim, it's not feminist at all.
>>78596933
I am not fucking saying men getting it easier fighting in a war but I am saying that the homefront gets their fair share of greif.
>>78596865
>Just like how not all widows would be women
But all widows ARE women though. Males are widowers.
>>78596977
>but I am saying that the homefront gets their fair share of greif.
And they have the opportunity to pick up their lives and continue living for the dead. The dead just stay dead.
>>78596607
but they get to live, life may not be good but its better than the void
>>78596312
>Like, what the fuck?
they say the same about policeman and fireman like burning in a house or freezing in stake outs is easier than staying up "worrying"
>>78596977
I would rather be sad than dead.
>>78596972
>Men have it easier in war than women.
Uh, no that's pretty feminist.
>Feminism isn't sexist.
Oh boy, here we go!
>>78596977
Agreed. And you know what? Vaughan disagrees, apparently, when he said women suffer more in war than men do. It's war; everybody gets fucked, comparing suffering numbers is stupid, and not something a semi-orphaned jesus kid would give two fucks about.
>>78596376
nah its stupid.
>>78597128
Newsflash: Kids are dumb. More at 11
>>78597103
Look, if artists had any brains, they'd be in a different industry.
>>78597024
Yeah that's how being dead works anon. Being dead means you don't have worry about how will your kids will grow up without a dad or being heartbroken or having good memories turn against you in the middle of the day because his favorite song came up on the radio. The dead have their peace but the living still get to suffer only now you're suffering alone because war took your brother or dad or husband or son.
>>78597086
>they say the same about policeman and fireman like burning in a house or freezing in stake outs is easier than staying up "worrying"
toppest kek, I'm reminded of a recent slate article where the writer questioned whether women should be paid for "emotional labor," i.e. worrying, wondering, etc.
>>78597152
>>78597152
Newsflash: the writter puts those words in
>>78597181
No, but men should be for putting up with them.
>>78597174
You are literally arguing that being brutally injured, tortured, and murdered is a form of privilege.
Holy fucking shit, leave it to SJWs to invent "death privilege."
>>78597171
Vaughan writes, Staples illustrates
Fiona Staples gets top billing on some issues because the art is more than half the reason to read the book
nigga
>>78597103
He didn't say that. A character said that and like an illiterate retard you think what the character is saying is what the author thinks. You know else who does that?
>tumblr
Congrats anon.
>>78597174
>The dead have their peace
says who? the dead?
>>78597174
>suffering alone because war took your brother or dad or husband or son.
yeah because you chose to do that.
>Being dead means you don't have worry
>implying those are not the kind of shit you worry about in trenches
>implying you don't get existential crisis that could take up 10 lifetimes.
>implying melancholy over the dead is a bigger pain than burning in your tank
>>78597096
Oh, you're one of those idiots. Okay, I'll ignore you then.
>>78597219
No that's not what I'm saying at all. Anon if you want to get into imaginary arguments that's fine but don't drag me into it.
>>78597181
>should be paid for
by whom?
>>78597234
>He didn't say that. A character said that.
>like an illiterate retard you think what the character is saying is what the author thinks.
Here here!
>>78597280
The patriarchy obviously. It's not like the feminists are making any money
>>78597253
The living actually, Dead people can't talk.
>or can they?
>>78597269
A feminist moron walks away from a reasonable argument? How shocking. Bye!
>>78597278
No, you are saying that. You're saying men have it easier in war because they're dead. You have turned death into male privilege and you're so stupid and/or dishonest you can't even own up to it. Acquitting yourself from your own words is pathetic. Defend your position or concede your error.
>>78597152
The point-of-view of Hazel's narration is pretty clearly double "I." She's speaking from an adult perspective far removed from the narrative's current arc.
>>78597188
And writers never write dumb characters or characters who are wrong or characters that have opinions that are different than theirs.
Reading this thread, I'm convinced that /co/ doesn't read comics because most of the people on the board are illiterate.
>>78597281
See now that a shitty example because the film glorified the klan and wasn't about a character glorifying the Klan.
>>78597234
Unless biased feminism is part of Hazel's value system at the time she's telling the narration from, you're wrong. I acknowledge that could be the case, but this is the first time I can think of Hazel's narration saying weird shit like that so it comes off as weird shit. And weird shit in writing is usually the author's fault.
>>78597171
>faulty premise
>>78597388
artist detected
>>78597351
>And writers never write dumb characters or characters who are wrong or characters that have opinions that are different than theirs.
usually not the main character in a slow moving publication
>>78597343
>/pol/ baiting and meme spouting
>reasonable argument
I ain't even a feminist you cuck, but go on frothing mad about something you know nothing about. I'm sure that'll get you far in life.
>>78597171
You could say the same about writers. Which is why they try so damn hard to get into TV and film and just use comics as a stepping stone
>>78597400
Just a writer. But, you know, continue to argue like an idiot.
>>78597280
In case you're legitimately curioushttp://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/12/the_year_we_wondered_if_emotional_labor_should_come_with_a_price.html
In searching for this, I was reminded a what complete garbage Slate is, and I'm a liberal
>>78597424
What leads you to believe I'm a misogynist? Because I correctly label modern feminism as sexist? How about, instead of calling people names, you engage in an argument? Or is that just too much for your tender sensibilities?
>>78597433
So are you going to address the point, or are you just going to sit and pout?
>>78597281
> writers can't create characters with different viewpoints than them
>>78597451
>>78597455
Look, I'm lumping all of these guys under the title "artist" How hard is that to understand?
>>78597428
Usually not what? Dumb characters? Fuck, literature is full of them. Wrong characters? Literature is full of them too, protagonists and antagonists alike. Characters with different opinions? That describes, like, all characters.
>>78597343
/pol/ I don't know how you got DEATH IS MALE PRIVILEGE from what I wrote but you can eat a dick if you're just going to keep putting words in my mouth.
>>78597477
Incorrect!
Mediocre!!
>>78597477
You haven't made any points that garner responses beyond, "you're wrong" and "do some research next time." Nice try though.
>>78597174
You're assuming guys just get killed in war. What about those who return with PTSD, or are horribly maimed? Or the men who lose their comrades? They are also guys that live with the horror of war.
>>78597381
What part of "hazel was raised mostly by women and around women" you don't get? It makes sense for her to be biased toward women's suffering. The subject never came up before, so she had no reason to mention it.
>>78597480
>writers reveal none of themselves in writing
I mean if you're going to strawman, let's just go all the way.
>>78597500
Your argument was that men have it easier in war because they die. That isn't "putting words into your mouth," that's what you said. In effect, you are claiming men literally have privilege in war because they die and are spared the suffering of their loved ones. It's right there in your post. So you aren't going to address your own point and you aren't going to defend yourself beyond claiming I'm from /pol/ (I'm not). So yeah, back to pouting you go.
>>78597477
I think you're misogynist because you refuse to admit that women suffer. Like you don't want to even bother with empathize with how shitty it would be for a mother to get news that her baby boy died and how that will affect her.
>>78597482
I never said I wrote creative work. I mean, I guess all my academic and professional work could be considered art, so fine, artist. Your premise is still faulty.
>>78597517
There's also women who live with that.
>>78597517
Prince IV's character arc clearly adresses that and his opinion is that yes, it sucks, mostly because everyone around expects them to ignore the trauma.
>>78597553
>you refuse to admit that women suffer
Where did this occur?
>>78597514
>you're wrong
You are, but I've done you the courtesy of explaining why.
>do some research next time
I have not wrote anything remotely close to this. You're so desperate to "win" the argument you're starting to make shit up. Come at me on reasonable terms and we'll have a reasonable discussion. Don't hide behind falsehood.
>>78597512
Sure!
Whatever!
>>78597540
what about that trans guy or the fact that many women in her life ar dumb bitches?
>>78597547
Everyone has it easier when they die.
>no more pain
>no more worries
>just peace of the grave
Sounds like the life.
>>78597553
Never mind women who never travel to a front and are still maimed, murdered, and raped. This suffering olympics is some bullshit, though. Let Hazel be Hazel, I say. If you don't like all her opinions, good. She was never meant to be any of our sock puppets.
>>78597598
I hope he disappears down the same hole those gay reporters fell into.
>>78597581
I think the argument here is less male/female and more people who serve/people who don't, except we're grouping it under gender because 99% of the time it's males for one group and females for the other
no one says that
>>78597594
You've explained exactly jack and shit to me. You're learning, but you're not a Jedi yet.
>>78597587
It's just a feeling when I read your responses. Like you have completely written off women and assume anything relating to their woes is just feminist bitching.
>>78597598
Dumb bitches, but they are/were HER dumb bitches. Compare to the guys who wanted to kill her, separated her from her family, etc. pretty much the only positive male models in her life have been Marko and her grandfather.
>>78597553
>I think you're misogynist because you refuse to admit that women suffer.
But I didn't. So good job! You're arguing from a false premise I never brought up and never even hinted at.
My argument was that claiming "women suffer the most in war" is bullshit. Just like "women don't suffer in war" is bullshit. They're both impossible to quantify and rely on shoddy reasoning to support. They're crap arguments.
I can empathize with a terrified soldier afraid of death just as easily as I can with a mother living with the reality of her son's death. You clearly can't.
There now. That wasn't so hard, was it? Am I still a misogynist or can you admit you're wrong?
>>78597610
>maimed, murdered, and raped
>implying
>>78597540
I haven't actually seen Hazel's upbringing yet, so I can't say whether those lines are retroactively reasonable. That's all. I tradewait Saga, if that matters.
>>78597626
Fuuuuuuuuck I forgot about the gay merfolk reporters. I liked them.
>>78597600
>Everyone has it easier when they die.
You assume.
>>78597638
So, you're strawmanning?
>>78597626
The gay reporters are due to come back soon, aren't they?
>>78596480
>>78596487
>>78596520
>What is post traumatic stress disorder? Im retarded and distracted by the cock in my mouth
More soldiers kill themselves than die in combat these days.
>>78597636
No, I have. You've been running away from it because you still don't feel like admitting you made a crappy argument. The Jedi are autistic weebs and to hell with them.
>>78597710
Okay....Doesn't really invalidate the point.
>>78597687
More like a judge of character.
>>78597747
Based on a deliberate misinterpretation of what I said used as the basis for an argument I never made. So a strawman.
If you're this bad at arguing you must be an even worse judge of character.
>>78597770
Don't blame me for the fact that you spend your time looking to get into internet fights anon.
>>78597832
Sore loser! Sorry you can't keep up a cogent thought for more than eight seconds. Thanks for the laughs, better luck next time.
>>78597868
I'm just blaming you for being an idiot, not that arguing on the Internet is more decorum than anything else.
>>78597877
Yeah you can chalk this up on your board as another 4chan debate won.
>>78597732
After months of mental anguish and inability to acclimate to civilian life.
Memories of friends dying. Friends who looked you right in the eye as primal fear consumed them.
Loud noises cause you mortal panic.
Conflicting emotions. Wanting to love your family. Wanting to serve your country. But violence and the knowledge depravity of your fellow man is always tick tick ticking away in the back of your skull. Knowledge that your country isn't the shining beacon you imagined it was when you entered the service. Knowledge its all a sham.
You struggle for months Breaking down. Lashing out. Verbally and sometimes even physically at those you love. People who used to adore you and hold you in the highest regard. They missed you. but now you're certain they wish you were gone again.
You hold on and fight it for months. Years.
Until you die. Or kill yourself
And this all assuming you're coming back with all of your fucking limbs.
I knew a nam vet who couldnt look at every day house hold items without it triggering some kind of memory. He told me about a time someone in his unit killed men with a bike chain. As I fixed my fucking bike.
>>78597898
You should blame your mom for drinking heavily while pregnant instead anon.
>>78597917
Will do. Thanks again for all your help.
>>78597929
You're just adding to the point that guys go through a lot more shit during wartime/military conflicts.
>>78597877
>sore loser
But really what you have won today?
>>78597991
Oh shit. My bad.
Half asleep.
MOst of the way drunk
Misread some of those.
>>78597940
It's an easy mistake to make if you believe feminism and women's rights are the same thing. I said the idea that death in war is a form of male privilege is a line parroted by feminist loonies, which is correct.
>>78597969
You're killing me!
>>78597096
>excited wrestler.gif
>not knowing who he is
Fuck you.
>>78597997
Nothing. Not the point, really.
>>78598037
Don't sell yourself short, chief! You kept it up for as long as I did. One almost thinks you're just a teensy bit involved after all this, what with your continued replies.
>>78595844
People only say that because Saga has had two acts of dumb shit when it comes to gender
Acting like Marko throwing a bag of shopping at Alana is as bad, if not worse, than being a drug addict around your child
And saying that women are always the biggest casualties when it comes to war
It's kind of charming how Saga brings out such family-centered insults.
>>78598169
...you're an autist, aren't you anon?
>>78598199
No but I play one on TV.
>>78596896
You should note how none of those people say a clear cut gender has it worse. Children are all children, the soldiers in the saga universe are both genders and Marko cares about all civilians. To bad is daughter is a fucking idiot.
>>78598221
And? They are opinions based on their personal expereriences. It so happens that Hazel views war trough gender.
>>78598143
>than being a drug addict around your child
That shit drove me up a wall and made me nearly drop the book.
>>78598212
>who is Jim Parsons?
>>78598127
What, your's didn't?
>>78598261
>They are opinions based on personal experiance
Nice excuse. This just makes it acceptable to say Hitler was right to hate the Jews
>>78598266
Yeah it was especially grating because if Alan had had the temper tantrum and throw shopping at him he would be expected to apologize for hurting her feelings. I probably would have dropped the book if I was reading it monthly but the trades keep me into it with IV and The Will
>>78598261
I'm just not sold on that gender bias based on what's been penned so far. She's narrating from far into the future so I may have egg on my face someday, but it feels like Vaughan was inserting an unnecessary hyperfeminist message with those lines.
>>78598327
I didn't say they were right, I say they were valid. For example, if you had gone through the same shit a IV you'd probably have strong opinions about ptsd.
>>78598360
At the very beginning she talks about a man breaking her heart, so my guess is that life will shit on her in some way related to a man (IV's son, maybe?) , further cementing her views.
>>78596607
What about the soldiers that don't die in war? You know, the people that can get PTSD and other mental disorders from going through the hell that is war. Or even worse, the people that survive a disfiguring injury or lose most of their limbs and can no longer do anything for themselves without someone helping them.
>>78598989
Well that just goes and showthe that life is hell and that it's the dead who are truly at peace.
>>78598452
>a man breaking her heart
I thought that just meant her dad disappointed her or something or maybe it means him dying breaks her heart and BKV is just being cute?
>>78599114
Are you dead? Are you somehow shitposting from the afterlife? We don't know shit what occurs when we die, so saying the dead are 'truly at peace' is an insult to their lives. Unless that person chooses to die, I'm pretty sure they'd much rather be alive than dead.
>>78596480
Plenty of civilians, including female civilians, are killed in war. And mass rape is unfortunately common.
>>78599175
You don't know either buddy. Maybe the afterlife is actually fucking awesome and the spirits of our ancestors ride in batlle with the heroes of yore or maybe there is no afterlife and when you're dead you're dead.
>>78599352
If that's the case, then wouldn't our suffering in live be an insignificant speck and thus negligible in comparison? I just take umbrage when people act like death is so much better in comparison to shit like rape or emotional trauma.
>>78599175
Would you rather be a PTSD ridden double amputee with no dick and only one eye or would you rather be dead?
>>78599390
You can still rape the dead tho.
>>78599393
Personally? I'd rather be dead, then again I'm a depressed cynical asshole with suicidal thoughts now again already so it wouldn't take much to push me over the edge. There are plenty of people on the other hand that would be happy just to be alive, even in that state.
>>78599390
I'm just saying we can find peace within our eventual demises.there's no need to be so negatively towards death as there's nothing to be ashamed of our grief towards it.
>>78599504
I agree with that statement, the only problem is trying to say death is somehow a better alternative to those outside of what you would prefer happen to you personally.
>>78597666
Landmines don't exactly discriminate.Here's your (You).
>>78599526
Sometimes the most comforting thought you could have after watching someone you love suffer endlessly is the idea that they're no longer in pain. I think that's just basic human logic when you get right down to it and you call it insulting or derogatory but i honestly that's just a human response.
>>78595844
It's the written by a man part that they don't understand
>>78599167
Wouldn't the phrase be in a panel with Marko, then? The panel had IV.
>>78595901
men will never understand memes
Retarded /tv/ shitposts are not opinions.
