Why are belgians and french so good at making comics?
And they are good at animation in general.
the question is,why?
>>78421556
Easier access to "inspiration"
I think it's because they weren't as big as Americans on censorhip, and artists who aren't bound by things like a comics code tend to develop a stronger footprint. That said, the same kind of went the wrong way with manga in Japan but it's probably because Japan had massive cultural turmoil in the XX and XXI century.
>>78421597
what is "comics code"?
>>78421611
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority
Censorship that regulated comic books in the US from 1954 to ~2000
>>78421671
So that is why the "american caped hero fighting big meanies" stereotype exists.
France was pretty much the center of all artistic culture in the world for decades. It's still a huge hotpot for art, including comics and animation. There's a degree of artistic freedom in France baked into their DNA. People used to make pilgrimages to Paris to make art there.
France is just inherently tied to the arts. That's why, anon. American art was traditionally landscape and environment oriented until Duchamp brought Cubism stateside, which was pretty late in the game. France and much of Europe just has a lot it inherent within their national culture in a way America doesn't. Cartoons are French as fuck, political cartoons have historically been mostly a French thing and it's a national pride. Cartooning in general, really.
So that's about why, really. Belgium's proximity to France, specifically Paris really, is why there's so much talent in the area. It's a lot more closely tied to their artistic heritage throughout the great wars than many other countries.
>>78421556
It is because comics are considered real art there. And they never pigeon holed themselves into turning an entire medium into a vehicle for one specific genre for the better part of a century like we did.
What about Finnland.
They made Donald duck
>>78421759
I don't think the comic book authors themselves actually wanted the medium to turn out the way it did, its just that the CCA had them in a veritable stranglehold
kind of ironic such a thing happened in a nation so keen on freedom, then again hypocrisy always has been an acceptable cost for raising kids "the right way"
>>78421792
Even with the comics code. the mentality about comics for decades was that they were simply for children. It really wasn't until the underground comics movement came along that perceptions started to change.
The comics code authority just helped remove the few remaining genres that were prevalent in comics at the time. Horror, etc.
So it helped continue to strip down an already stripped medium.
>>78421834
something like horror comics could have evolved into something adult significantly easier than cape comics though
>>78421855
Lad,that is serious art.
except for the japanese.
I don't really think breasts work like that.
>>78421855
French people know where it's at.
>>78421855
based frogs
>>78421556
>Why are japanese so good at making comics?
>And they are good at animation in general.
>the question is,why?
>>78421890
>Japanese "comics"
Why do they think right-to-left is a comfortable reading method?
>>78421870
>japanese
>understanding the boob
>>78421597
France and Belgium has serious censorship of comics in the fifties and sixties. Comics like Harakiri opened them up. Jidehem wanted to use a cute busty female for a series. Guess what he made:
>>78421597
Don't be stupid on the time of the comic code, their works were very safe too.
>>78421709
Why these are so few good cartoons coming from Europa them? Lately there are some good movies and anima animation projetos and shorts, but their shows are usually uninspired and still mostly made on France. Hell, wakfu, for example has a horrible animation.
>>78421855
Vive la France!
>>78422299
Shit, new smarthphone from christmas is fucking me with the autocorrect.
>>78421775
And Spurdo!
>>78422299
Not that anon
A lot used to come from Europe, but this stopped several decades ago. Germany, Britain, France, and many of the nations of Scandinavia and even Eastern Europe all the way to the Balkans and Russia had at least decent animation industries. However, this would stop with time for a medley of factors.
I recall hearing a story about a somewhat famous Slav animator who, these days, can basically only live on donations because the government won't pay him, even though his work was quite good. Nations do not think about animation these days. France, Britain, and Russia still make animation of their own.
>>78423499
Why the governament should pay him?
And what good cartoons are you talking about? It's always good to expand the horizons...
Bumpt
>>78421916
They are clearly improving it.
>>78426488
Nah, it was fine on the 80 and 70's, look at Ranma. These days, their fanservice is all anatomically strange and exagerated.
>>78426547
>Exagerated
That`s what I mean by improving.
>>78421556
In the US, they apparently created structures and trained people that make sure that nobody ever follows Will Eisner's advice about how to not alienate your current and potential future readership.
>>78421556
exotism, diversified (if small) market, respectability in media, excellent schools for both art and animation (though the drawing schools have taken a bad hit in the last two decades by focussing on expression instead of tehcnical skills), [a suivre] and metal hurlant in the '70s meaning that adult artists of every style had an outlet.
Eurocomics had their crises too, though.
I'm gonna say the one issue per year and semi-episodic structure of most series also plays a big role, because you can make very good art without worrying too much about the deadline.
Plus lack of editorial universe like the big two, so you don't have to make your story fit perfectly and can build your own universe/characters.
>>78421855
>saggy
gross
>>78421902
The way they organize their sentence structure is reversed too. This is rooted to their cultures upbringing so it's normal to them.
>>78421556
How do you guys feel about Dutch comics?
>>78432552
is that a spoof on secret agent man?
>>78421556
Don't forgot the Italians, OP.
Seriously though, I really wish the comics industry here in America would get its head out of its ass and be more like Europe and Japan. In Italy you can go to anywhere that sells Newspapers or magazines and buy a shit ton of comics for dirt cheap (A 300-page Dylan Dog goes for 6 euro). In Belgium comic shops are very refined places, like a Barnes and Noble almost, while here they're just populated with fat neckbeards and autists. This country really needs to respect comics more.
>>78426547
To be fair, their feudal era breast expansion anime has some nice tit physicsand sound effects.
>>78421584
>27 rubbers
oh baby
>>78421855
Left one really does look better. Far right would flop around everywhere and probably have disgusting dark veins.
>>78421556
testing
>>78430779
>small market
Tex Willer moves more issues in Italy than Batman does in the US.
Does this one exist in english?
Should I scan it?
>>78422299
Because they cost a SHITLOAD of money, and if you don't pump out merchandising, it 's a waste of money.
>>78421584
It's funny because Uderzo is better at realism art with Tanguy and Laverdure.
>>78421556
I never see people talk about based Blake and Mortimer, I used to read this series all the time when I was a kid.
I should really dig around in my storage shed, I have tons of old(er) Euro Sci-Fi comics.
Blake and Mortimer, The Rise and Fall of the Trigan Empire, Neige (Snow)
As well as the comedy staples Lucky Luke, Spirou and Asterix. I wonder if those are still salvageable, I noticed the Lucky Lukes were slightly waterdamaged.
>>78432552
Oliver B. Bumble is the only good comic to ever come out of the Netherlands.
>>78443005
I can't say if the Netherlands produced a lot of good comics but David the Gnome and Alfred J. Kwak were pretty based shows, I must admit.
>>78442887
Either way I'm intrigued.
>>78421556
Tradition of writing them, and the luck that the "default" comic genre here is adventure/comedy rather than superheroes.
>>78421597
Eh, there was some equivalent to the comics code that sort of prevented characters having a love interest, which explains why most characters written before the 70s are bachelors, with sometimes some unplanned gay undertones.
>>78422299
Not as much of a consumer base because you have to compete against American and Japanese show (among others). Movies tend to be marketed internationally (and sometimes to adults) more often.
But "we" used to make lots of good cartoon shows, it just stopped about 20 years ago.
>>78421709
>Cartoons are French as fuck, political cartoons have historically been mostly a French thing and it's a national pride. Cartooning in general, really.
Eh, the origin is more divided than that, including GB, Germany and Switzerland.
>>78421855
So France prefers real boobs to fake/pushup boobs.
>>78423571
Not him but Animals of Farthing Woods (international), Once upon a time Life/Man (France), a number of French-Japanese coops like Ulysse 31 or Mysterious Cities of Gold, Watership Down (GB), La Linea (Italy), Space Goofs (France), Oggy and the Cockroaches (France), Tintin (France), ....
>>78430779
>>78441774
The Franco-Belgian comic market is larger than the US comic market period.
Also don't forget Fluide Glacial.
>>78443026
That they were. AJK only had three comics, some good art on here by one of the shows animators/comic artist.
https://one1more2time3.wordpress.com/tag/alfred-jkwak/
>>78443164
Christ, that is some amazing landscape art as well.
>>78443222
Right? Doubt the comics were ever translated to English.
>>78421556
The French never had something as powerful as the CCA nor did comics become stigmatized and labeled as a "nerd" thing, nor they were engulfed by the idea of comics = superheroes
>>78422191
Never knew about that, what where sixties french comics like?
>>78423571
From what I know, it's rare for an animation work to be profitable. The American industry has to creatively stiffle itself in order to sell toys to survive. If you are not japan or murrika you'll need government funding or someone willing to put out
>>78443130
It is? Do we have sales numbers?
>>78441774
Italy is it's own beast, completely different artistic traditions.
>>78421556
Because a lot of people read comics over there, so more money and effort is put into them, then more people read them because of the improved quality and choice, which allows to put more money and effort into the comics market, etc...
>>78443307
>37 million comics sold in 2012 for France alone
The thing is that a comic book is different in France or Belgium from what you have in the USA.
>The French never had something as powerful as the CCA nor did comics become stigmatized and labeled as a "nerd" thing, nor they were engulfed by the idea of comics = superheroes
You still have some parts of the population calling it "fake books" and "kids reads" but most people are confident enough in their own mental capacities so they don't need to compensate with statements like that.
>>78443307
>nor did comics become stigmatized and labeled as a "nerd" thing
Eh, a bit. The stigma isn't as strong as in the US but it's there and most adults don't regularly read comics.
>what where sixties french comics like?
Early Asterix, early Lucky Luke, late Tintin. Boule & Bill, The Smurfs. Really innocent and kids focused.
>Do we have sales numbers?
I recently did a Google search but can't really find proper numbers now. Pic related should give you an idea, it's 2013 sales numbers for European Francophonie only. Note that 2013 was apparently a bad year which was only saved by Asterix.
The only thing Fr*nch are good at is worshipping Allah.
Belgians do all the heavy-lifting in Franco-Belgian comics.
>>78443478
>>78421556
No censorship (including self-censorship). No PC crap. Since capeshit is not popular the authors have to make different kind of stories instead of reheating the same old soup.
>>78443361
Looked around and found that USA unit sales in 2012 was circa 120 mil (+80 mil for top 300 plus 700 other comics with a 35000 median). Dunno how much is trades and how much is floppies. Is it possible to draw a comparison with say, total page count?
>>78443403
>Nombrils, LEO's Antares and Blacksad have +100000
Damn, that's awesome and unexpected.
>Asterix: +2 mil
sheeeit
>>78443577
Most Franco-belgian comics are 48 pages long but it can be longer like in stuff like Blast or Quay D'orsay. Don't forget that you have 5 times less inhabitants in France.
>>78443607
>5 times less inhabitants in France
That will change once Francistan becomes a muslim capital of the world :^)
>>78443662
>>>/co/
We are talking about comics kid, go back to your containment board.
>>78443607
Promethee and Wunderwaffen the original are 50 pages long. The English editions are 25...
>>78443577
>>Nombrils, LEO's Antares and Blacksad
Funily enough none of those are really French. Nombrils auhtor is French-Canadian, Leo is BR (although I think he writes in French) and Blacksad artist/writer are Spanish.
>>78443607
That's the standard but graphic novels are oftently way more longer.
Pic related is 700 pages long.
>>78443781
>L'affaire des affaires
Good taste anon. I say most comics are 48 pages long because of the Asterix, Spirou, Tintin and others.
Of course you have way longer ones which is what I said.
I hated this one as a kid, but I discovered recently that's a metaphor of a rebellion of young cartoonists (led by Moebius) against Goscinny in Pilote Magazine.
>>78443916
It was one of my favorites as a kid.
>>78421855
I hate fake boobs, but USA looks more like a woman in a bra than Frankentitties.
Look up Jollyjack for shitty boobs.
>>78421855
I don't get it. Is it talking how they draw breast ? Is it about the cutting of their female fashion?
>>78421556
Most of the problems with the American comic book output can be traced to three or four specific incidents that nearly collapsed the entire industry.
>>78442967
The only thing I remember from Blake and Mortimer are the terrible wall-of-text exposition
>>78443403
>Game Over
Remember that this is what good gaming comics can pull off.
>>78445971
Those were like from the 50s, mang.
>>78421556
We only get the good stuff because no one bothers to bring shitty comics and cartoons over
While american productions are much more"international" in distribution so the whole world sees Minions 5: The Minioning
>>78443403
Mangoes do pretty well also.
I have no idea what the US figures are, but assume these figures are impressive considering the french-language market is only a fraction of the english-language.
>>78449289
>Naruto
>on the very top
But why
>>78450415
Ninjas > Pirates I presume.
>>78450415
>>78450767
both are garbage?
>>78442887
>>78443035
I'll dump it tomorrow.
>>78449289
According to the cleck at my comic store, manga is their most important range. Plus it's the teenagers sweet spot, so they build a good customer base and can sell more goodies.
I wonder about manga production costs, they're sold between 5 and 8 euros here..
A bd is sold between 10 and 15€ and usually costs around 3,50 to produce.
>>78435413
>pic
Your tastes are god-tier.
>>78443005
Believe it or not the full length cartoon was on video in the US. And they changed Tom Puss to a girl,Kitkat.
>>78443326
More Alone!
