>I hate superheroes. I think they're abominations. They don't mean what they used to mean. They were originally in the hands of writers who would actively expand the imagination of their nine- to 13-year-old audience. That was completely what they were meant to do and they were doing it excellently. These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it's nothing to do with them. It's an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men, usually men. Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love of Green Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal. This is a significant rump of the superhero-addicted, mainstream-addicted audience. I don't think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it's a rather alarming sign if we've got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s.
what did he mean by this?
>>78179245
>what did he mean by this?
Stop liking what I don't like.
>>78179245
Capeshit and their fans are scum
>>78179245
I kind of wonder what his reaction to the mlp fandom would be.
Alan Moore is a disgusting dengenrate
>>78179245
>MFW he's 110% correct
>>78179285
/thread
>>78179245
exactly what he said
and he was right
cape comics used to be fun and dumb because they were written for children
now they are as dumb as always (because the idea of superhero is dumb itself) but they are extra edgy to appear more mature to make it easier for retarded manchildren to be delusional about themselves
>>78179285
Effectively.
While I think people need to learn to enjoy stuff like this for hat it is, and not put it up on a pedestal of being stuff like 'modern mythology', Alan Moore is a bitter old man.
>>78179358
So he's only 11% correct?
If percentage goes past 100, the next digit implies completion.
>>78179245
>>78179579
But children don't read comics in America, because America's mainstream comics are not aimed at children.
>>78179245
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my next misanthropic and rape-filled epic about fucked up versions of historical figures and public domain (or not, tee hee) characters and concepts, soon to be published by Avatar "American Guro" Press.
>>78179245
>They don't mean what they used to mean
aka
>NOT MUH
>>78179615
This is hilariously wrong
>>78179245
"What did he mean by this" is 100% indicative of a shitpost and should be added to your filters list.
>>78179664
What children do you know that read Marvel or DC anymore?
>>78179245
I love how this is from the guy that looks like Willy Wonka and Hagrid in that picture and writes fish rape comics.
>>78179684
Relatives, church goers, kids i see at the store ect.
>>78179245
It means "I get to talk shit about other dark superhero comics that are meant for adults, all the while I make dark superhero comics for adults because fuck you that's why".
>>78179245
So where does Necronomicon fit into this?
>>78179245
#based
>>78179454
>the idea is dumb itself
Meme
>>78179245
>can't into history
>>78179454
Just because an idea sounds dumb doesn't mean it can't be executed well.
>>78179285
>you see a stranger's opinion as an imperative
Your life must be chaos.
>>78179579
>as long as a child likes it, an old person isn't allowed to criticize it
How is this any different than IT'S 2015?
>>78179703
Where do you live at where kids actually read comics? NYCfag here, the only people I ever seen reading funny books are other adults on the train, and I work with children
>>78179758
Nowhere because it's not a superhero comic nor it's aimed at kids?
>>78179245
It means he's being a contrarian old fart.
Little kids play sports and I never, ever see anyone outside of myself say "sports are for kids" and I only say that as a counter-argument to this kind of weak ass argument.
You know it's good to have things that both adults and kids like. Sometimes, I know this is shocking, people HAVE KIDS and ENJOYING THE SAME THINGS helps bond with those kids.
>>78179508
I... uh.. what...well... neat. Okay then, I never knew that. Thanks mathanon.
>>78179755
I really love Moore and (almost) all of his work, and I think he's almost always right and gets unfairly trashed by newfags wanting to look edgy by taking a legend down a notch...
But yeah, I can't see how Moore can say with a straight face stuff like Watchmen or his Swamp Thing run were attempts at mature, adult-oriented superhero books.
He himself led the way for superhero comics to attempt to do more than be children's adventure fantasies. His successors and imitators attempted to do this and often did very, very badly, but that doesn't change what he himself did (well).
>>78179821
Kids knowledge of Super Heroes literally comes from everywhere EXCEPT comics these days.
movies, cartoons, game versions trump all.
It means he's a fucking pedophile
That alan moore is a faggot
>>78179245
Manchildren need to grow up. Maybe picking up actual books with no purdy pictures in them to read.
That capekeks can't handle truth bombs.
>>78179454
>(because the idea of superhero is dumb itself)
That was literally the point Moore made in Watchmen, that the idea of a superhero is not only stupid but dangerous and would only be practiced by the damaged or insane if it were a real thing.
>>78179856
Except he made those in the 80's and they no longer reflect his current opinion. In fact, he has outright denounced most of his previous work.
>>78179755
Wasn't Watchmen supposed to be a deconstruction of morality in capeshit?
Because I can't see how he could've pulled it off without superheroes.
>>78179245
>They don't mean what they used to mean.
They really fucking don't.
Men want you to believe comics are important so they can sustain their childlike egos.
Women want you to believe comics are important so they can turn it into another cultural megaphone.
Which of these do you think is sadder?
>>78179615
This.
Comic companies don't even try to market comic to kids anymore. They don't even try to make a branch of books for kids so there is nothing to market. Comic books are now written by old fans trying to enact their fanfics into canon. Marketed towards adults who insecure about reading comics so they demand there be more sex, dark themes, violence. The comic book companies give it to them. It's sad.
Basically anyone with more than a passing interest is this board's shit is an autist, no exceptions.
You can say that what Moore described isn't a bad thing, but you can't say it is not true.
>>78179907
I know his opinion on his own older work, but he's just wrong on that point.
Watchmen is hailed as a milestone not just by aging comic fans, it's one of the few comic works that gets mainstream accolades and attention. There is copious academic analysis and discussion of it. It was even on things like Time Magazine's Top 100 Books published since Time's founding in 1923, the only graphic novel to be included.
Watchmen is the definitive counter-example that a work can be about superheroes and be serious and intelligent, and that the concept and the exploration of the concept is worthwhile.
>>78180064
Are you missing the fact that the one work about superheroes that receives massive accolades is the work that completely tears the entire concept to pieces and takes the piss out of it? Did you consider that's WHY it's so acclaimed in the first place?
It's only NOW that played straight capeshit is suddenly considered even passingly respectable to the mainstream because of the faux-nerd culture bullshit.
>>78179615
Are you sure they're not for children?
I'm sure people thought the same thing when theather evolved into movies and movies into tv. Get with the times gramps.
>>78179973
DC has or use to have books target towards younger readers but as you said they didn't push them. They were usually one shots or short lived series.
>>78180108
>Are you missing the fact that the one work about superheroes that receives massive accolades is the work that completely tears the entire concept to pieces and takes the piss out of it? Did you consider that's WHY it's so acclaimed in the first place?
Of course, but that means there was something there to "take the piss out of", or else no one would care about a deconstruction. Superhero works mean something to the culture at large, and they're worthwhile to analyze and to make.
The fact that many examples of them are badly made doesn't mean the concept itself is worthless.
>It's only NOW that played straight capeshit is suddenly considered even passingly respectable to the mainstream because of the faux-nerd culture bullshit.
I think you have it backwards. Superhero movies are in the mainstream now because they've only really been possible relatively recently, technology-wise. Once they became technically feasible, they made money. Once they made money, they were embraced by the media because they made money.
I disagree that they're considered "respectable". I don't think anyone in the mainstream holds them up as examples of high art.
>>78180155
I hate that shit so much. American sensibilities folks!
>>78180064
You can he shouldn't feel this way, but he does, so by no means is he being hypocritical.
It's quite common for authors to hate their work, Virgil tried to destroy the Aeneid, which is considered the best piece of Roman literature.
>>78180155
America
>Swearing is bad
>boobs are bad
>but Sentry ripping a nigga violently in half showing everything is okay
I mean, he's fucking right.
Like Inarritu's right when he says superheroes movie are dumb.
Nowaday it's a whole genre created by nolife neckbeards for others nolife neckbeards who will grow into others nolife neckbeards thinking that's all there is to it. Superheroes today are basically what 90s boybands were for 13yo girls.
ive been saying this in the identity crisis/jla threads lately but ill give it one last shot to see if anyone gets what im saying:
identity crisis is the epitome of 80's comics. it was just past its time. there was nothing out of place to make it no different then the material Moore and others did in the 80s with heroes.
its the perfect example of the "adult=mature" notion that came with the sappy 80s hero stories.
>>78180215
anon means "respectable among your peers."
As in, if Tom Hiddleston is in the movie, girls will now tolerate the concept of Thor comics. Fem-Thor is Marvel's strategic response to that phenomenon.
>>78179245
Alan Moore is just JELLY AF because check this out
first he wanted to be edgy and say superheroes a shit, way back in the 80's, and this was before any of these movies became a big deal, and comics were a smaller thing, so he thought he was right
but as superheros became a huge deal, he refused to admit he was wrong, and so now he is mad that he didn't get to come along for the ride, all because he is too stubborn to admit he was wrong. Now guys like Brian Michael Bendis get to have all the glory, while Moore sits alone in his home, suffering through all of the rage and animosity
fucker got what he deserved Tbh
>>78180246
You are on a blue board on 4chan right now. Think about that one for a minute.
>>78179358
>>78179294
>>78179454
/tv/ spotted
>>78179245
>Comics should only be for children
So... Are you telling me that Moore is...A NORMIE!?
>>78180322
don't even get me started on the "no gore-focused material" on /aco/....
Yeah, I'm gonna storytime Caceres' Bathory comic on /d/, that'll work.
>>78180250
I could see that. People say that the 90's comics were influenced by Moore (and to a certain extent, some were, like Robinson's Starman and some others), but I'd say 00's comics were the ones that were more obviously inspired by him. Identity Crisis definitely feels more like it came from someone reading a Moore comic and getting the wrong ideas from it than Liefeld's early Youngblood did.
>>78180290
I think that's just a function of them making money now. If a movie earns a billion dollars, anyone associated with it is going to get respect.
You'll notice that the success of the movies doesn't translate into success of the comics. As much as comic movies are accepted as a phenomenon, it's still not really "cool" to read actual comics.
>>78180437
I think the 90s and 00s were influenced by Moore in different ways, and got him wrong in different ways.
The 90s focused on the most immediate and shocking aspect of Watchmen (and other stuff like TDKR): the violence and brutality. The kind of stuff Moore and Miller showed was fairly unheard of in mainstream comics at the time, and lazy imitators in the 90s aped that, so you got the empty ultra-violence and "extreme" attitude.
The 00s, reacting to the 90s, focused on the intellectual side of Moore's 80 work, the dissection and exploration of superheroes as a concept, but as with the violence the successors and imitators couldn't do it as well so you get stuff like Identity Crisis.
I hate all this talk of "manchildren" or "childishness." Comics appeal to our baser, primal urges. That's it. Sex isn't childish. Violence isn't childish. Fantasy fulfillment isn't childish. The only reason people conflate those things is to get shit banned. Stop it.
I think he's right in that they changed their demographic. I think he's right in that if comics returned to that demographic, that wouldn't really be awful. I think super heroes benefit from appealing to that demographic in large part. I disagree that adults are restricted from them. If they can enjoy them same as the primary demo, I don't see the harm in enjoying fiction outside your age group. Then again, I still watch anime and cartoons. Take my opinion with as much salt as you like.
>>78179245
>It's an out of context, shitpot stirring, selective quote chosen Alan Moore hate thread...featuring everyone's favorite fandom the colorfully costumed superhero comic book commentary community.
>>78180296
> implying alan moore cant work on whatever the fuck he wants and get showered with gold
>>78180064
>Watchmen is hailed as a milestone
Think about why that is familia.
>definitive counter-example that a work can be about superheroes and be serious and intelligent, and that the concept and the exploration of the concept is worthwhile.
Yes, can be, seldom are. That's why any berry seems edible in the wilderness.
>>78180654
Stop being sensible you're hurting my sense of holier-than-thou self aggrandization.
>>78180654
That's exactly why they're childish. They fullfill a desire of onnipotence that primary belongs to children or immature adults that cant cope with the complexity of the world
>>78180654
Power fantasies are inherently, maybe not childish but appealing to an adolescent mindset
>>78180810
So you're telling me that adults don't engage in wish fullfillment? You're fucking retarded. Valiant tales to inspire people are as old as storytelling.
>>78180869
>Valiant tales to inspire people
That isn't what capeshit is today.
Capeshit is literally progressive leftist propaganda that tries to ram it's bullshit down your throat and instill a feeling of hopelessness that only being 'progressive' can solve.
>>78179508
Actual autism.
>>78179245
Comics should have more adult themes, such as rape.
>>78180810
>>78180844
Losing your enjoyment of dreams and fantasies doesn't make you an adult, just a defeated shell of a person.
>>78179758
Jesus, source?
>>78180964
So you're saying an autist btfo >>78179358
then.
>>78179245
What does he know? He believes in magic. That's for children.
>>78181034
What's the difference?
>>78181056
Necronomicon by Alan Moore.
>>78180348
>capeshit fans are scum
>what did he mean by this?
>he meant "capeshit fans are scum"
Time for another course of "Facts and Opinions"
It's all just so boring.
Every Superhero has the same pallet-swapped sob story about childhood, and if they don't it's ONLY to obviously and consciously subvert this cliche.
Saving the world is boring, the villians and their motivations are boring, the morals of the superheroes are boring. It's all the same bland, uninspired, simple, manufactured, corny, preachy dogshit.
As a kid I would always prefer books over comics, I had this habit of just reading the dialogue bubbles and skipping over the pictures in comics because I didn't appreciate my mind's eye being handheld. But now I have to tolerate the mind-numbingly dull plots of capeshit in movies.
FUCK is capeshit bad.
>>78181056
Alan Moore's Neonomicon. A pretty shitty horror comic, but Moore redeemed himself now with Providence which is probably the best HPL related thing ever.
>>78181034
OK, and? Go post on your tumblr blog about it.
>>78181114
Sure thing /tv/
>this entire thread
>>78181077
>Magic is for children
I'd be careful of that if I were you.
>>78179806
"I'm taking my toys and going home." - Alan Moore, 2015
>>78181114
Capeshit has effectively strangled what could've been a great medium
>>78181134
Oh, what are you gonna do? Turn me into a toad?
>>78180209
Marvel adventures was fun while it lasted.
>>78181034
Nor does it living in denial and enjoying shit that enforces it. I mean, am I srsly having this conversation? What, you guys masturbate watching Dragon Ball? Seeing the shy kid get the fine girl? The bully become a no life mcdonald employee?
Fuck off.
Alan Moore is totally fucking right and this thread proves it.
Read a goddamm books every once in a while ffs (and no, G.Martin isnt a real writer)
>>78179245
"Comic books were a mistake."
-Alan Moore
>>78181148
Sure, m8. Suuuuuuuuuuure.
>>78181170
>not being able to separate fiction and reality
I'm sorry for your condition.
>>78181114
>skipping over the pictures
You realize admitting a lack of visual comprehension is not an admirable feat, right?
>inb4 no good art
If you browsed only shit, sure, but that's entirely on you.
>>78181215
Or it says something about how dull superhero comics are drawn and they can get far too wordy.
>>78181170
>What, you guys masturbate watching Dragon Ball? Seeing the shy kid get the fine girl? The bully become a no life mcdonald employee?
m8 what you're up to is called projection and it is the instinctively inclined thought process of an under-developed psyche. You're not doing yourself any favors.
>>78181214
See, that's the thing. If you totally separate them, then what's the point? Isnt then, by definition, actually mindless dumb shit you use to fill your free time?
When I read, I want to get something. If I'm exactly the same, then it's not worthy.
>>78181304
>what's the point? Isnt then, by definition, actually mindless dumb shit you use to fill your free time?
>When I read, I want to get something. If I'm exactly the same, then it's not worthy.
And yet here we are on 4chan's /co/...
>>78179245
The same can be said about children's movies like Toy Story, or video games or even fucking cartoons. In fact, why the fuck are we giving a fuck about what a jaded and senile old man has to say?
>>78179341
He'd make them Gone. If we're lucky
>>78179245
The truth.
Nerds are the worst.
Fanboys are death of culture.
Those mindless consumer whores are worse than any normie chad or bob could ever be.
that's a fucking lot coming from Moore whose entire line of work has never been aimed at the 9-13 year old demographic
>>78181363
>he same can be said about children's movies like Toy Story, or video games or even fucking cartoons.
No it can't, at least not on the same scale as capeshit. Most cartoons and games are boldfaced for kids / teenagers and don't try to dress themselves up in daddy's pants to look mature. Mario and Kirby never pretend they're telling a deep and thought provoking mature story like Batman dreck does.
>>78179245
That Johns and Slott are hacks.
>the guy who wrote Killing Joke mad that capes aren't aimed at children anymore
It was his fucking fault in the first place
>>78181118
HPL?
>“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -C.S. Lewis.
>>78181170
>thinking a medium is inherently better than another
your 13 year old is showing
>>78179245
Did he steal some curtians to make that coat?
>>78181304
>Isnt then, by definition, actually mindless dumb shit you use to fill your free time?
Yes. That's exactly what it is. That's why it's a hobby, a leisurely pursuit. If you think that's a problem or expect anything more out of it, then maybe it's because your life revolves around your hobby too much.
You can say most comics, and most entertainment for that matter, are crude, unambitious, and appealing to the lowest common denominator. That's all quite fair. But people didn't get nothing out of it. Their brains got a shot of dopamine. They relaxed. Their worldly problems were forgotten for just a moment. Considering the kind of movies and music and pop culture that makes the most money around the world these days, a lot of people value that kind of brain dead escapism.
>>78181515
>massive baby afraid of women who wrote Christian propaganda that Tolkien boldfaced called shit right to his face has become the rallying point of adult MLP, capeshit and Pokemon autists
How utterly proper.
>>78181491
Howard Phillips Lovecraft
>>78179664
Comics like Nova and Ms. Marvel attract more paedophiles than actual children.
Children today watch movies, play games, or just yank their doodle dandy rather than read comics. Hell, they are actually reading books over reading comics.
>>78179615
>because porn isn't aimed at preteens
>because horror movies aren't aimed at children
>because 4chan isn't aimed at underage loners
>>78181547
>>78179245
I had no idea alan moore was this based.
We are living in a generation of manchildren
>>78181556
Thank you.
>>78181547
and Morrison calls Moore shit, what about it
It's not like Moore has written anything worthwhile in the past two decades. And even then, why would you take the word of a cape writer if cape writers only write worthless drek?
>>78181528
Well, I'm happy we agree with Moore then.
It's mindless shit.
>>78181170
>>78181547
>>78181570
/tv/ projecting again, I see.
>>78181442
>Those mindless consumer whores are worse than any normie chad or bob could ever be.
Super-debatable.
I'll use other media as an example because Manga and Comics are kind of hard to really draw proper parallels. The universal natureof video games (and anime) are an easier litmus test.
If we look on one side we see our Maddens, our Calls of and so on. On the other however we have Otaku domination of anime and the "traditionalist" mindset strangling a lot of genres back into infacy in video games but really both have their pros and cons.
The dudebros for example provide enough income for the sales to be used elsewhere in a company, that's not always the case but it's a possibility and the progress can be seen, at times...with time.
Comparatively the constant nostalgia comparison checks done can help prevent a series from straying too far from working formula, which maintains a certain degree of quality throughout and as a standard.
>>78181547
/thread
>>78181634
Is crying about /tv/ all you're capable of?
>>78181611
>And even then, why would you take the word of a cape writer if cape writers only write worthless drek?
>>78181547
>real book authors are better than comic writers
>meanwhile these people use the words of a comic writer to trump a real author
wow, this shit really writes itself
>>78181611
>It's not like Moore has written anything worthwhile in the past two decades.
Umm...Neonomicon
>>78179245
>says that guys that made the biggest amount of pretentious edgy garbage in capeshit
Oh my, do i love some hypocrisy
>>78181547
>Using Tolkien as a staple of anything
Regardless of the depth and size of the writing, if there was anyone more linear in their creative process than the fucking Bible it would be him.
>>78181671
Depends on the authors quality, George R R Martin writes books but I'd hardly consider him a good or respectable author
>>78181646
Crying about being revealed as /tv/ won't help you.
>>78181646
He doesn't really have to put more effort since he's right, the majority of reaction images and vernacular give away where a poster and their mindset are from and why it's pointless to engage them in any meaningful discussion.
>>78181697
Depends on how much of a legacy you think C.S. Lewis has
>same stale pasta over and over
>LE WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THIS meme
Why do we have mods again?
Also, sage
>>78181671
this
it's obviously /tv/ shitposting
>>78181634
That last quote isn't even wrong though. Children could give a shit about what Marvel/DC comics are doing. You really think they're interested in the level of continuity wank? That ain't for them.
>>78181690
Agreed JRRT is far too over rated. Hobbit was also a better book than LOTR
>>78181766
Wow, that was actually the most sensible response in this entire thread. I don't know how I ended up in here again.
>>78181783
Marvel/DC don't give a shit about children though.
>>78181515
Whatever you think about Lewis himself or his work, his point stands.
The people, like many in this thread, who loudly and strenuously go on about how childish and inferior superhero comics are reek of insecurity and desperation.
They are trying so, so hard to show everyone that they are smart and mature and indulge in only the most refined and intellectual pursuits, because they are desperately afraid that if they don't people will question their maturity or intelligence.
If you really don't like or care for cape comics, you wouldn't jump at everyone opportunity to tell people how above them you are. You would just ignore them and discussions about them.
These people have something to prove to themselves and the world, and it's sad.
>>78181766
>>same stale pasta over and over
>>LE WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THIS meme
You see these on /tv/ a lot.
Also you see people complaining about superhero films on /tv/ a lot too, so it probably means most of the anti-superhero posts in this thread are from /tv/ shitposters.
>>78179245
Mainstream comics about superheroes certainly do appear to suffer from this situation. They're infantile, emotionally stunted, and utterly revolting, largely the sort of content that I wouldn't give a child to read. Definitely a hallmark of the adolescent adults that are overrunning the world nowadays.
It's consumerist shit playing to the lowest common denominator and the fad of the day. They include memes and references, politics reduced to absurd notions, and the very worst bit of all, they don't mean anything. They are nothing, only mindless distractions.
The shit is poison for the mind.
>>78181783
>That last quote isn't even wrong though.
>>78181570
>Comics like Nova and Ms. Marvel attract more paedophiles than actual children.
That actually does sound like someone from /tv/ projecting.
>>78181114
Like this desperate, sad individual.
If it's all so boring, ignore it. you don't have to tolerate "the mind-numbingly dull plots of capeshit in movies" you can...just not watch them.
People who go on about something being boring are boring.
The Killing Joke was meant to appeal to 12 year olds?
>>78181863
>mindless distractions are poison, you should only play chess and read intellectually stimulating books!
this was literally mewhen I was in 7th grade
>>78179245
Unless he was 13-year-old when he used to write comics, the whole "BUT CARTOONS/COMICS/ANIME/MANGA/VIDYA/ R 4 CHILDRUNNN" argument falls really, really flat.
Or did Moore never read anything he wrote?
>>78181863
I love this "consumerist" bullshit.
What, do you only attend underground avant-garde theater put on illegally? Or only read handwritten manifestos?
You're just as much a consumerist drone even if you consume different content. This is like teenagers wearing an anarchist shirt they bought at Hot Topic thinking they're so above society and are striking a blow against capitalism.
>>78180917
>Stories about selective, exceedingly powerful beings fighting each other 24/7 is propaganda for saying everyone is equal
I chose a Scott Pilgrim panel like the other guy, just to emphasise this
>>78181824
I never said they did. They clearly don't aim their comics at them.
I'm saying that neutrally.
>>78181916
He didn't say comics are for children.
>>78181889
He regrets doing TKJ.
>>78181909
>only
When it's the bulk of what you consume, it makes you brainless. You are what you eat, so the saying goes, so it's easy to see why there are so many vapid, intellectually lacking idiots in the comics fandom.
>>78182015
"The Killing Joke was a mistake." -Alan Moore
>>78180711
>Think about why that is familia.
Oh shit, this is one of those memes, right? Now I KNOW you're a serious intellectual. I better watch myself.
As I said, it shows there's potential in the genre. You're right that it's seldom actualized, but that's kind of true for most things. Most work in any area is shit, only a few works really rise above.
If Moore can make Watchmen, there's no reason to think that the potential of superhero comics has been exhausted by that one work.
>>78182015
I thought he only regretted crippling Barbara.
>>78182015
Is there ANYTHING Moore doesn't regret doing?
>>78182015
He regrets everything.
>>78182033
>so it's easy to see why there are so many vapid, intellectually lacking idiots in the comics fandom.
Yet somehow geniuses like yourself continue to grace us with your presence.
I think you're setting up a false dichotomy here. You don't have to choose between reading comics and reading books or some other "intellectual" activity. Most comics nerds I know are also big readers, chess players, etc.
How did you manage to avoid the dark trap of comics and flower into the gifted intellectual you are today, if I may ask?
>>78182074
Familia is just family in Spanish, ya dingus.
>>78182133
Thank you senpai desu senpai
Did I do that right? Is that how these memes work?
>>78182015
goof, it was shit. Only people that want shock value enjoy that shit comic. Want a good Batman-Joker comic? Look at Arkam Asylum by Morisson and McKean
>>78182033
>if I read something intellectual, means I'm smart!
Jesus Christ, I hate the "education = intelligence" bullshit that gave birth to so much pseudo-intellectual trash.
>>78180248
I can't look at Grant Morrison and Neil Gaiman and see a neckbeard.
Or Moebius
>>78182182
>memes memes memes
???
Are you trying to summon Beetlememe?
>>78182185
You mean like
>>78172027
>>78172406
>>78181973
>liberals
>Everyone being equal
>>78182233
Th...thanks, anon. I've only written it twice so far, you saved me from a big mistake.
>>78182124
There is a split, some readers are very intelligent. But they had since stopped buying comics from the big two and have now started reading Indi comics. But they don't buy as frequently. So you have the stupid kids still buying DC and Marvel team books that keep their sales up
>>78181846
Upvoted :^)
>>78179245
>I think it's a rather alarming sign if we've got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s.
This is all true.
>>78182188
Gaiman never made super hero comics.
>>78181170
Bro, do you need a hug?
>>78182328
>Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?
>>78179948
I pick #3: Guy on Chinese cartoon imageboard trying to bait strangers into a flame war.
>>78182326
So, so true :^)
>>78182079
http://www.blather.net/projects/alan-moore-interview/killing-joke-brought-light/
>>78182100
He only disowns things that he doesn't own but he was proud of most of his work. He mostly feels bad about broken friendships.
>>78181170
Life is shit, my man. Of course we want to escape from it.
>>78181846
Yeah but capeshit and capeshit fans are ashamed of their subject matter being childish which is why they have to poorly shorehorn in 'mature' themes the writers are clearly not equipped to handle for the sake of putting on the front of 'see this stuff is really adult subject matter, pls stop laughing.' Capeshit is literally ashamed of itself and has brainwashed an entire generation into this misguided belief that this shit is on par with literature or even more egregious is applicable to real life situations, ie those autists who think Superman is a good figure of moral guidance to their every day life.
>>78182328
He's done work on stuff like Spawn and Miracleman.
Preacher is basically a cape book except powers come from religion and myth instead of [Science!]
>>78182405
more people need to know there is more to comics than super heros
>>78182283
Ironic shitposting is shitposting.
>>78182405
Thunderworld was a largely well-received title by everyone though
>>78179245
>These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it's nothing to do with them.
Says the guy who wrote Watchmen, a comic certainly not for 9 to 13 year old kids.
>>78182414
And Preacher, Spawn and whatever use the powers as a background and setting for the comic. They aren't super heros, they are avetars
>>78181646
>OF CORSH!
>>78181743
Was Lewis this hot?
>>78182033
I agree. I am a cannibal apologist. I don't bother eating healthy. I eat healthy people instead.
So anon. How is your diet?
>>78182183
Yes, Grant, we know you're better than Alan. You don't have to get mad.
>>78182405
You're right, it works both ways. People who try really hard to defend superhero comics are ashamed
But you'll find this with most genre fiction. Science Fiction, for example, is largely considered a literary ghetto and has struggled very hard to be taken seriously by the literary establishment. It's why writers like Margaret Atwood refuse to call themselves SF writers despite clearly writing SF.
I think if you really enjoy a genre and want to elevate it, just write good material. Moore looked at the genre and wrote Watchmen, and thereby showed the genre's potential.
Also, I disagree that people looking to Superman as a moral guide are "autists". Plenty of people look to fiction for moral or ethical guidance.
Referencing a Shakespeare character as an inspiration doesn't make you any smarter than referencing Superman if it's something that's helped you be a good person. People draw their inspiration from art and literature and movies all the time, and that's fine.
>>78182459
doesn't make him wrong. He wrote adult stuff, he's musing about how even teen comics are adult. Siege where Sentry ripped apart Ares was marketed to young audiences. Bendis fucked up there.
I want adult comics, but that shit doesn't belong in teen comics
>>78182569
except teen comics exist like Ms. Marvel and Starfire
>>78182444
Yes, there are comics about depressed, quirky teens and adults doing depressed, quirky things.
This is apparently deep and meaningful.
>>78182550
>Plenty of people look to fiction for moral or ethical guidance
the bible
>>78182604
>>78182550
>Referencing a Shakespeare character as an inspiration doesn't make you any smarter than referencing Superman
Smarter? No.
More tasteful? Yes definitely.
Superman is a corporate product, he's no different than Micky Mouse. He embodies nothing beyond what DC dictates. What he represents one day can become irrelevant or forgotten about tomorrow.
>>78182328
/tv/ poster confirmed
>"My advice is this. For Christ's sake, don't write a book that is suitable for a kid of 12 years old, because the kids who read who are 12 years old are reading books for adults. I read all of the James Bond books when I was about 11, which was approximately the right time to read James Bond books." -Terry Pratchett
Bait thread, but I will reply.
All he really said is that the writers of superhero comics today are using them wrong in trying to appeal to an adult audience.
Trying to make something more mature removes all the wonder and magic from it.
That's just correct.
But then toward the end he starts to say that adults men simply should not be entertained by concepts that are meant for children like superheroes which is bullshit.
Maturity is nonsense, and there is no reason that you should stop enjoying something just because it was intended for a younger age group.
Really almost any fantasy story uses concepts that are meant to entertain children, but that doesn't make Hellboy immature.
Alan Moore is just old.
>Miyazaki Quote: The Thread
at least /a/ got over that shit already
>>78182678
At least I've seen mods on /a/ delete those threads.
It's official, we're worse than /a/
>>78182633
Do you even own a fedora?
>>78182603
as opposed to The Vision who just lost his 'family'
>>78182640
I'm not who you're responding to, but that's not true.
What Superman represents is not decided by DC, it is decided by the reader.
The reader takes each story and chooses the ones that they like, the ones that speak to them, and that builds the true meaning of the character, no matter what editorial or continuity say.
>>78182569
>hyperviolence
>not teen material
>>78182640
No fictional character embodies anything beyond what the author writes. They're not real people.
Superman clearly has a core meaning that has survived for decades, and that inspires some people. "Tasteful" is just subjective bullshit. It doesn't matter if you draw your inspiration from Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu or from a superhero comic if it helps you be a better person.
>>78182715
That's great but it doesn't affect how he's portrayed in the comics. You can say Superman represents the Aryan ideal or the subversive alien invader or some shit and while that makes sense in your mind that won't hold over to what people read.
>>78179245
He is at least partially right - but seriously, times have changed. We have more free time and more access to entertainment and a wider choice.
One can enjoy pulitzer prize winning novels and flashy stories about laser shooting robots the same way he can enjoy hamburgers and caviar.
>>78182269
>some readers are very intelligent. But they had since stopped buying comics from the big two and have now started reading Indi comics
This bait is too obvious.
>>78182745
>that has survived for decades,
Only the most basic bare-bones shit has survived the decades: strong alien who works as a reporter
What he represented in 1938 and what he does now are completely different
>>78182755
So?
Who gives a shit what other people think?
Why would you base your consumption of media around other people's shitty opinions?
At the same time, why would you discredit the great Superman stories just because a lot of them suck?
>>78182794
>the corporate whore says
>>78182770
To some extent. But just, tastes have changed. Everything's HD and greebled and dark and gritty, or else it looks dated. You can't have a decent Lone Ranger or Green Hornet reboot without turning it into a vapid bromance comedy flick because modern eyes see its simplicity and optimism as naive and campy.
Heck, as well as The Flash works on CW, and as much as they stuff references into it, they make sure to make everything modern and urban. No pastel costumes, just desperate people suddenly given powers.
>>78182853
>LE CORPORATE WHORE meme
Just kill yourself
>>78179285
He even has that same pose.
>>78182843
>Who gives a shit what other people think?
Because this is what leads to the 'not muh ____' mindset comes from
You can't have people arguing their subjective view of what some character represents against what the actual product portrays them as
>>78182812
Jesus Christ, this is sad. You really have to resort to taking panels out of context?
From the very beginning Superman was about helping people. Action Comics #1 featured things like Superman saving a woman from an abusive husband and taking down a corrupt Senator.
That's what inspires people. He's always been explicitly about the powerful using their gifts to help those in need, from day one, and that's never changed.
I feel sorry for anyone here that reads more Marvel and DC than independent comics. There are very few good stories in the top two right now.
>>78179669
Along with autism, kek and degenerate. There are some other tentative warning signs that you are reading a shitpost but not as guaranteed as those are.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people come to /co/ for no other reason then to shit all over cape comics and the people who like them
If you don't like superheroes why are you here, why even click on /co/ you know is mostly capeshit you know most people here enjoy it
why are you here
>>78182915
HOW he does it sure has changed though. Today he would never beat up a abusive husband or take down corrupt senators. How he's just about pushing the progressive left like every other capeshit.
>>78182812
OK, you just admited that you don't read comics.
Also, acting like the character, and bit the writter is the importante thing behind it, is kind of naïve. The good thing about this corporate thing, is that you are able to ser multiple reinventions of an idea, multiplex interpretations, and ser which idéias stick and whuch ideas chance. It's kind of fascinating.
>>78182946
Exactly.
It's like people who go on the porn boards and tell other people they're sad and pathetic.
If superhero shit is so terrible, just don't visit /co/, or at least don't participate in cape threads.
But no, they need you to know that THEY'RE superior because they're so insecure inside.
>>78181766
because you people don't report posts
>>78182946
cause some of us like fantasy or sci-fi comics and not your stupid cape shit
late night, with european users we get conversation abou that
>>78182678
But the "anime was a mistake" quote never happened. Do people seriously believe he said that?
>>78182946
Indiefags fags basically want /co/ split into three boards: one for cartoons, one for all capeshit and the last one for cartoons. A /co/ like that wouldn't survive long.
>>78182998
Unless you're autistic, you do know you can just not comment on posts that don't interest you, right?
The existence of cape threads doesn't preclude you discussing sci-fi or fantasy or Euro comics.
>>78182946
Maybe they just get entertainment out of teasing people about things they like.
>>78182910
I disagree.
The idea of Superman and what he means to people is much more powerful than the product.
DC only has so much control over how people view the character.
It's kind of like that Morrison idea which I forget the name of where people really create the character themselves through the stories that they individually enjoy. That is more important than the product.
Again that's just my opinion on it, you're also right that the character loses a certain amount of credibility since he's ultimately the puppet of a corporation.
>>78182946
>saying this while posting a picture from a non-cape comic
>>78182928
Not untrue, there is actually kind of a drought in capeshit at the moment
>>78182745
>>78182550
Act like Superman in real life and you'll be exposed as delusional retard, comic book morality doesn't apply to real life whatsoever. This is why people hate capeshitters. You are not a super-powered alien from another planet who is essentially beyond reproach for every and any action you take, you cannot apply his convenient morality to the real world where real people live.
>>78182998
>late night, with european users we get conversation abou that
And this leads to making threads and posts about capeshit you don't care about how?
>>78183037
That's really sad.
>>78182928
More or less is whatever, but I do think it's a huge shame that some people never venture outside of a single genre within the entire incredible medium of comic books.
>>78182998
Not really.
>>78183052
>Act like Superman in real life and you'll be exposed as delusional retard,
So you're saying you do act like Superman in real life?
>>78179245
get off my lawn!
>>78183052
yeah but you can be kind and friendly and use the skills you have to help people. you can choose to believe humans are flawed but capable of nobler things.
no one is suggesting that you act like a superpowered alien in your daily life. why are you this autistic?
>>78183052
How are you this autistic?
"Inspired by" doesn't mean "literally act as". Just Google for example of people inspired by fictional characters. You can be inspired by, say, a sci-fi book without thinking you can fly a spaceship or be a robot.
>>78183037
I think more than some people shitpost on 4chan
>>78183052
Can you describe to me what "acting like Superman" is? Just curiois.
Looks like Moore picked up the wrong medium, then went on to write multiple wrong stories. Even "his" creator owned stuff lends characters and concepts wholesale from HP Lovecraft his victorian heroes. But the truth is, Moore's work as a pure writer can't stand on it's own two legs, nevermind Moore trying to eke out some creativity instead of teenage snark.
What the fuck is with the report captcha?
Why does it give me the damn error every time?
>>78183052
How do you know how Superman act, or is currently acting, if you don't read cape comics?
>>78183068
Not really, you should try it sometime, it's most of this site. What would be sad though, if someone took anonymous imageboard comments to heart.
>>78183052
Next up
>Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
How can someone be like a summer's day! First of all, a day is a unit of time and a person can't be a unit of time. Second...
>>78183258
Oh, like you're doing now?
he was right, you know.
>>78183272
Got me!
>>78183103
I've had the best conversations at 3 AM central time, maybe you like argueing about DC V Marvel all day, but at these times I can find conversations about Indi comics, politics and all sorts of things. /co/ is much better in the middle of the night
>>78183258
Nah, it's sad. It would be nice to be able to talk about things we like sincerely. If that's not someone's cup of tea, they should go elsewhere.
What's wrong with posting sincerely about things you like because you like them?
