What stories do you think helped inspire Scott Snyder's Batman run?
>>78045256
Whatever Morrison story came out two years before
DKR, he often admits his love for it.
He's trying to forge his own take but got sidestepped on the fucking Joker for 2 years now and everything after Court of Owls has been shit.
>>78045348
Specifics? Or are you just quoting what you've seen others say?
>>78045363
I'm under the impression he's creating his own way while incorporating what was lost in the reboot. Trying to fit the 75 years lost into the ten year span DC says Batman has now.
>>78045363
Zero Year was good
>>78045499
>Specifics
The Black Glove is the inspiration for the court of Owls, right down to fake Thomas Wayne, with a sprinkle of the Batcult stuff
Batgordan is a combination of Dickbats and the evil fake Batmen made by GCPD
Joker pretending to be the doctor in Arkham is a rip off of Oberton Sexton
Joker saying he's an immortal evil force is a Rip off of Dr. Hurt saying he's an immortal evil force
Batman's "death" is a rip off of RIP (memory loss) and obviously the period of time where he was dead
Not even the anon you responded to, it's just pretty obvious.
>>78045653
>Oberton
I'll never understand this typo/misreading. If you haven't read Shakespeare, maybe you've seen Gargoyles?
What the hell guys?
>>78045717
I actually have read MSND, I dunno why I spell it wrong, I honestly thought that was his name.
>>78045653
To be fair, DickBats was just taken straight from Prodigal
SnyderBats is Morrison Bats for people who aren't character history nerds.
>>78045653
Black Glove is hardly the first hidden society within Gotham. Hell the Court's focus on Gotham is a trait it doesn't share with Black Glove which was an international group made up of world leaders. Best the court had was Gotham's upper class.
DickBats isn't the only one to take the mantle. Did we just forget about JPV?
Joker's pretended to be a lot of things including doctors. That's been one of his earliest MOs. The difference here being Sexton was a result of Bruce's departure while the Arkham Doctor was still Joker just carrying out a plan. Morrison may have gone about this idea more creatively but he's not the only one who can use it.
Bat's has disappeared before. And he didn't suffer total memory loss to the point of giving up the Bat suit. In fact RoBW stresses that Batman is a part of Bruce Wayne that he's always connected to where as the amnesia in Snyder's story is looking a life Bruce could have without the Batman. Shit RoBW wasn't even about getting his memory back, it was about becoming Bruce Wayne again.
So your examples are generic plot developments not unique to Morrison.
>>78045539
I liked it. It was time for Riddler to shine.
>>78045784
The concentration of the similar plot elements near Morrison still makes the run worse even if it's not intentional thievery. We literally just saw most of these plots. Obviously Dickbats is like Prodigal/JPV but that's 20 years later. Court of Owls was literally while Morrison's run was still going. Like this is half of Morrison's general plots, and Snyder eliminated everything good from Morrison's run. No more patronly bruce who is becoming more like Alfred. No more Batman Inc related shit at all (I know Morrison shut it down, but fuck could Snyder have used some good recent new/revitalized characters instead of creating bad OCs?), intentional destruction of the Batfamily.
>>78045981
We saw similar plot points sure but its not as if Morrison wasn't doing the same thing other writers had done or were doing themselves. While he was writing the Black Glove DC was also getting ready to release a League of Assassin's story which has more in common with the BG than the Court does.
Like wise the Joker comparisons are common that nearly every writer uses them. Dini wrote a story about Joker impersonating a paramedic. Hell he was writing a story about Hush impersonating Bruce Wayne while Hurt was claiming to be Thomas Wayne. I don't see anyone claiming Morrison was ripping off of him then, or that the similarity of plans by the main antagonist in anyway affected the others run.
You're looking for things you want to see and allowing that to decided how you judge each book. If your complaint is "Snyder isn't Morrison" that's fine, we all have our own taste, but trying to make the mental gymnastics to claim that Snyder's run is bad because he isn't Morrison is just childish.
Also Court of Owls was released during one of Morrison's long episodes of failing to turn in a script on time. Batman Inc was supposed to have been in its second stage long before the reboot happened. You can't blame Snyder for telling the story he wanted or DC for moving on when Morrison was the one dragging his feet. It's Morrison's fault he found himself in a position where he was forced to make concessions.
Take Morrison's own advice. That story you want and love is still there in those pages. Read that if you want to read Morrison's Batman. Stop trying to turn every writer into Morrison and get upset when they don't tell that story.
>>78046187
I don't want every writer to be Morrison, I just think that what he did with Batman is good, and I do think Snyder legitimately threw any character development Morrison wrote directly out the window.
I don't understand how Hush being Bruce is at all similar to a villain attempting to play with Bruce's desire for biological family, which is what Snyder did in the same way Morrison did with Hurt. That's the same plot beat, identity theft of the MC is a completely different plot beat.
I really don't think I'm going through mental gymnastics here making the CoO/Lincon March comparison to Black Glove/Thomas Wayne.
Batman dying and giving up the mantle for the second time in 5 years seems like a sales gimmick so I don't even really blame Snyder all that much, but it's still an over-saturation of the same concept.
And yes, I do think editorial has a responsibility to say to their writer, we just told that story, we are looking for an extremely fresh take on the character for the new 52, would you be able to alter it in any way.
>>78046705
I like Snyder's writing. One thing I don't like is that it's sometimes approaches torture porn. His Batman gets beat up A LOT. I think he just likes to watch Batman bleed and grunt.
>>78048451
I like a lot of his other comics, but not Batman.
He made Bruce too much like 90's Bruce, a lot of anger and brooding, doesn't tell anyone his plans and then doesn't apologize if those plans are dangerous/bad for other people. He also has not stuck the landing once with an arc (although I haven't read Zero year or the last 4 or so issues)
>>78048478
Which is why I prefer Morrison's Bruce/Batman. Less brooding and he's actually somewhat funny at times.
My only problem with Morrison it's that some of his stories are a bit campy. Some lightheartedness is alright by me, but the whole Mayhew's island? Did not like that one bit. His Bruce is miles better than Snyder's though.
>>78045256
Being hack
>>78048562
>not liking Mayhew's island
whats campy about that besides flashback
>>78045348
Beat me to it.
>>78045363
Zero Year was fucking fantastic as a whole, what are you on? Sure it wasnt an "Iconic" Year One type story where he builds up from taking out the mob but it was damn entertaining.
>>78045780
That's one of the things I disliked about Morrisons run.
>Hey have you read every Batman story ever? No? Tough shit, I'm a pretentious cunt who writes the vaguest shit ever.
Even the Black Casebook didn't cover a lot of his little references. I loved the run as a whole but it put me off a bit. His dialogue was also very fast paced, as was the art and I sometimes wondered wtf was going on. Suppose I'm the type that needs to be spoonfed.
>>78045653
You forgot the Joker coming back with his face off being a lazy one-upping of the chelsea grin he gets in RIP.
>>78048686
But that's what makes it interesting. Morrison stuff is jam packed with history.
Since there seems to be a whole bunch of knowledgeable people here right now, I'm going to go ahead and ask how I get started reading the Cataclysm/No man's Land story arcs in tpb.
>>78048843
buy them?
google it?
>>78048794
I think, for the most part, he provides some explanation or background info. But some bits of batlore is bound to stump most people throughout his run.
>>78048794
Yeah and I like that concept it's just how he goes about telling it is always very vague or it throws you straight in without warning or explanation. It's like reading something by someone with ADHD
>>78048902
2deep4u
>>78045780
>>78048686
The thing is Morrison used the history to change the themes/tone. He took every part of Batman's histroy and showed what made Batman an effective character throughout the years. He touched on pretty much every popular comic genre/style and how Batman is a character that works in every setting. I can see how some people don't like the way that Morrison injects this into the narrative, I'm actually not hugely into the whole hyperadapter/batgod thing myself, but he tones it down after Bruce comes back to life.
There is nothing Snyder is even coming close to trying to do with the work in this sense. That doesn't make it bad by any stretch, I think the bad writing and pacing do that, but I think it makes it totally unfair to compare them in a way that isn't beyond "Snyder's retreading some of Morrison's plots already"
>>78048936
How many years is Batman supposed to have been active by the start of Batman and Son? Somewhere between 10-20 I'd imagine for all that shit to have happened.
>>78049312
Morrison says 15 is his headcannon in the intro to The Black Casebook.
>>78048794
>>78048936
I agree it's what makes Morrison interesting. Unfortunately it also frequently makes his Bat run heavy-handed and just overwrought in general. It definitely has its great moments (I like Morrison's Batman & Robin in particular despite thinking Damian's an awful, useless character) but it also occasionally approaches being pure dreck.
I think Snyder's faults are similar in that his ambitions undermine his work. The difference being that Morrison prioritized his "epic" and the history that shaped it and Snyder has a problem with making everything an "event" instead of telling a good story. Morrison's run just had the benefit of having more thoughtful ambitions.
>>78048686
>>I'm the type that needs to be spoonfed
There's literally thousands of straightforward Batman stories out there, with new ones published monthly.
What made Grant Morrison's Batman better, was that there was so much bubbling under the surface, and that you don't get it all the first time. I've read quite a bit of Batman, and even still I'll pick up on some new little reference or variation on a theme on each re-read.
BUMP
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>>78050005
Regardless it not being accessible to newcomers in no way is a fault. Not every story needs to be new reader friendly and as someone that has entrenched myself in Bat history for the last decade I very much appreciated a run that referenced that history and made the knowledge that I have obtained actually matter.
>>78051045
>Regardless it not being accessible to newcomers in no way is a fault.
I don't disagree with that.
Newbies love Snyder's run, but he can never close shit. The ending to Court of Owls? Fucking awful. It starts out ambitiously, but fuck does it fall flat.
>>78045348
Ops post was bait for this
>>78045256
Shadow the Hedgehog
>>78045785
Riddler is my favorite villain and Snyder did a shit job with Eddie.
He showed up and the arc didn't get less boring, that's when I dropped Snyder's run
Literally treated him the same as he treated every villain he wrote before: God Mode for the first 75% of the story, and then Batman pulls a win out because WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE apparently means you can read your foes' minds.
