I need some brutal honesty. How do you feel about authors writing minority roles? I'm usually of the "race doesn't matter"-caliber when it comes to fiction, but that's because I focus on fantasy/sci-fi where real life is completely tossed out the window. I think that's the only time that race truly doesn't matter unless you make it matter in that fictional world.
On the other hand, if authors are writing a story that has basis in the real world, do you think they should take into account and research the historical and current culture of their ethnicity? Is it possible to write, hypothetically, a Muslim character without doing crazy in-depth research of Islamic culture so long as their faith isn't an integral part of the story? Like if it's a comic about friends who hang out but don't talk about religion. I mean, obviously, if they order pizza, they should find a halal establishment to help accommodate their friend, but... you get what I mean, right?
Additionally, is there ever a time when stereotypes can be used in a way that aren't negative? Do you suppose it would depend on context and tone of the overall work? South Park is a good example as they make fun of everyone indiscriminately, but what about stereotypes in non-comedies?
Disclaimer: Most of these questions are hypothetical. I just want to know how people feel because I am sheltered and curious especially as an artist who wants a diverse cast in his works (with reason), but holy hell, I don't want to be an insensitive, naive fuck. ESPECIALLY UNINTENTIONALLY.
>inb4 buzzwords gb2tumblr etc etc etc
Enjoy your deleted thread
I don't care if someone wants their characters be whatever colour and whatever stereotype, except maybe indulging in strange things like depicting large numbers non-Whites in medieval Europe or something.
But I don't think anyone has to be enthusiastic to see characters they love being replaced by minorities and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fascist.
>>78028551
Eh. It's worth the risk as it's a serious question of mine.
>>78028590
Yeah. I don't like that old characters are being replaced with "upgraded, more diverse" versions. I'd rather people make new characters than rehash (bastardize) old ones.
>>78028528
>I mean, obviously, if they order pizza, they should find a halal establishment to help accommodate their friend, but... you get what I mean, right?
most muslim young adults I know aren't so forceful. They just get something vegetarian if the meat isn't halal.
>is there ever a time when stereotypes can be used in a way that aren't negative?
No. that's what gets you shit like 'all asians are good at math and know kung fu', which amongst other things, generalizes distinct cultures into a vague amorphic bloc defined only by geography.
That said, having the parents be humorously stereotypical while the kids are more fleshed out tends to go over pretty well.
the bottom line is always research. look into the culture's traditions and history, how they tend to be depicted in media, who their folk heroes and celebrities are, and what topics tend to be a source of conflict within their communities.
>>78028528
You're missing the point. Authors are doing this "diversity" shtick not to develop and enrich their work, but due to the fact that 95% of them are arrogant assholes. To them their audience is the lynching mob, and they are the teachers, the enlighteners, the prophets.
>>78028528
>Is it possible to write, hypothetically, a Muslim character without doing crazy in-depth research of Islamic culture so long as their faith isn't an integral part of the story?
Ms. Marvel is a good example of this. I obvious that she's Muslim but that is only a minor part of her character and it doesn't factor into the plot at all.
>I just want to know how people feel
Most people don't care about race or gender as long as you aren't obnoxious with it. The idiots you see arguing about it are just vocal minorities that you're better off ignoring.
Honestly, its works best when it feels natural; if a characters race or fair isn't particularly important to the current situation, it shouldn't be something that is or needed to be constantly referenced.
If your making a more realistic story, the minority characters shouldn't be that much more different from most others if they are very assimilated (i.e. not fresh of the boat). If they are, maybe some further research is needed, but not much more than just being generally observant and seeing how other people act in day to day life.
As for stereotypes, as a lot of them are based of truth, you could probably fit quite a few subtle ones in, and have it come of as more realistic than offensive. Some less subtle stereotypes can work as well, especially if they're referred to jokingly by the characters themselves.
>>78028798
So what you're saying is: white people are charismatic leaders whom gullible idiots will always follow?
Anyway, I want to get in on this "diversity" shtick because I want to possibly make a comic based on my workplace where there are hundreds of people with different backgrounds.
>>78028875
>Most people don't care
I had a feeling. I know there are reactionary types out there, but I don't want to cater to them.
>>78028616
>I'd rather people make new characters than rehash (bastardize) old ones.
the market doesn't allow it. From the bronze age onwards, big 2 readers have demonstrated they have no interest in buying the books of wholly original characters.
and make no mistake, Big 2, and occasionally Hollywood, are the only place that happens. Everywhere else continues the same 'squiggly mashup of things I like' that has driven fiction since time immemorial.
>>78028528
I'm far more sympathetic to certain "minority roles."
I find homosexual/mental illness types much more fascinating. They clearly come with a lot of demonstrable baggage in terms of character. Elements of covering up their identity, choosing when to reveal it to people, who to reveal it to, etc.Plus, my teacher made me have my own "coming out" experience about my mental issues to my class, so I have a lot of in built sympathy for homosexuals and the like
With race-baiting and feminista shit, neither of those roles are necessarily hindrance. You can be a black millionaire, and all your racial drawbacks won't matter, and you can make a decent argument it's better to be a woman in the modern day West. With homosexuals, a substantial portion of the population thinks what you are doing is morally abominable regardless of how you're doing, what you're doing, and when you're doing it, which has got to leave an impression.
TLDR; LGBT stuff is interesting, race/gender war is not.
>>78028875
>that is only a minor part of her character
>no bois allowed
>main villain is the secular "muslim" boy (corrupted by kafirs)
>constant meming about kafir pigs
>imam as a mentor
Srsly, it's literally religious propaganda, just imagine something like that with Catholic themes.
>>78028962
>You can be a black millionaire, and all your racial drawbacks won't matter
Great point. That reminds me of Django when he became a black slave-driver. The white characters withdrew their usual racist attitude toward him when he acted "like a slave driver", but then the slaves were fucking pissssssed.
>>78028962
Your teacher made you tell your class that you have mental issues?
>>78029058
I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at age 5, and I didn't have much of a friend group. My teacher took pity on me, at the time I was around 10, seeing me so isolated, and felt the other children didn't understand my condition. So after a session with the school psychiatrist to do some tests (the tests that determine your secondary education, which I did well in, thank god) she got me up at the front of the class, and she sat beside me, as we both tried to explain to the class what it was like to be autistic. I actually liked doing it.
>>78028528
>How do you feel about authors writing minority roles
im mexican and i recently started watching star vs the forces of evil, i like how they wrote the main character, he is mexican but they never make him go full burrito lucha libre sombrero
it's really cool because he is mexican and he looks and acts like a normal personthat kinda makes me self insert sometimes
that being said i also love el tigre the adventures of manny rivera, because the characters are cool and welll the creator of the series is mexican so he knos how to write our traditions and culture in a cool way
so as long as the writer is good i have no problem with it
but something that i hate is when they take a character and replace it with a minority i would hate to see something like a mexican captain america or a mexican ironman, shit like that is unoriginal
>>78029165
I think that's important for kids to do especially in school. It's hard to get to know someone when you don't understand why they don't act the way you or your friends do. It just ends up ostracizing the kid who's "not normal".
>work at day camp during summer in middle school
>kid with intense speech impediment attends
>basically can't talk properly at all but forms complete sentences
>you can understand him if you listen carefully and gets easier as you go
>dumb fuck other kids make fun of him for being "stupid"
I don't think kids should get "special treatment" when they have disabilities or impediments, but having everyone be aware of it would allow for more sensitivity.
>>78029001
>>no bois allowed
Not Muslim exclusive.
>>main villain is the secular "muslim" boy (corrupted by kafirs)
He wasn't the main anything. He was a henchman for 2-3 issues.
>>constant meming about kafir pigs
You mean the Doom dogs? What?
>>imam as a mentor
Again, what? Is this new?
>just imagine something like that with Catholic themes
If I were as retarded as you I would say Daredevil fits the bill.
>>78028928
>So what you're saying is: white people are charismatic leaders whom gullible idiots will always follow?
What the fuck
>>78028528
>I'm usually of the "race doesn't matter"-caliber
So write a character, he is of a certain race.
Job done.
I mean, if it's just writing, you don't even need to mention their races. They could be of any race the reader would like, unless it's important for the plot, I don't see the point of describing the race of the characters.
As for more visual work, if race doesn't matter, then there is no issue making the cast of various races. It has the objective advantage of making your cast easily visually distinctive, which help a lot.
>>78029368
>Daredevil fits the bill
Miller's DD was pro-life and anti-contraceptive?
>>78029415
Accurate. Sorry anon.
>>78029455
It ain't. I'm just saying that in both cases, it can be covered up by someone, and there is a lot of prejudice about both of them.
>>78029493
It ok. We all miss the joke some time or another.
>>78029455
I'm hoping he's saying that they both have external and internal factors going against them, but that it's actually an illness.
>>78028528
make whatever you want
nobody should be attacking you, they should be trying to change the upbringings people get until they don't want to do that anymore. it accomplishes nothing if people do this shit without wanting to, only because they were pressured into it.
they ARE changing those upbringings, so that is the only victory they can have. and it's inevitable.
what happens is they get addicted to the feeling of being oppressed and fighting back against it, so even when they win they never stop
>>78029555
That it's not an illness*, though there's plenty of people who seen to think so
>>78029478
Was he?
OP here. I thought this thread would backfire for sure. Thanks for responding, guys. I'm feeling a bit more confident now.
>>78028879
This
>>78028962
>TLDR; LGBT stuff is interesting, race/gender war is not.
The issue here is that race/gender ties into LGBT more than you might want it to do so. You can't really have a LGBT story without focusing on gender to some extent.
>>78030522
By gender, I meant feminism/token women stories.
Others have voiced a lot of my thoughts, but I just wanted to mention that while I do appreciate authors adding diversity, I don't think they need to do a Burger King Kids' Club type thing where a token of every possibly minority they could cram in shows up. It's impossible to represent every single kind of person possible in ever work of fiction, and I find it a bit condescending to throw tokens in there honestly.
>>78031027
I feel the same. Throwing in token characters just feels like an attempt to pander without actually setting up a relationship with other characters or even making sense to the plot in and of itself.
But if there is opportunity for diversity (where it makes sense), I think it's important to, at the very least, consider.
