>yfw Cap's not your friend anymore
>>77793528
This is a rare case where the childhood best friend actually wins endgame.
>>77793528
He is Tony's friend. Tony's just being a jealous cunt.
>>77793554
This
he's acting like a chick
cap is still his friend he just has more than one friend don't get your iron panties in a bunch
>>77793528
Batman is more of a friend to the Joker than Cap was to Tony.
>>77793528
Steve was never his friend to begin with, at most he tolerated him and had some moments of understanding with him when Tony wasn't being an asshole but that's it.
Cap was alone/working with SHIELD post freezing until he met Sam and with Sharon and Bucky joining in he'll have his on posse, Tony has Rhodey (probably Pepper unless he fucked that up).
>>77793554
>>77793571
Tony's mad because he's made mistakes in not trusting his comrades and doing whatever the fuck he wants because he "thought it was the right thing to do" at the time, and now he sees Cap doing the same thing with Bucky, who, in spite of his brainwashing, was responsible for the deaths of many important figures in history (likely including his and Black Panther's fathers.) Before that, apparently Cap's team fucks up in Africa or wherever and gets people killed in the crossfire, if the leaks are to be believe, leading to the Sokovia Accords passing. When Cap found Bucky, he immediately said that he can't trust Stark with this information because of the Accords. Stark probably wants Bucky to stand trial for what happened, and for Cap to cut it out with the "no you move" bullcrap so they can make the best out of a horrible situation.
Think about how this looks to Stark; when Tony fucked up, he was held responsible and did everything he could to make up for it, but when Cap fucks up, he fucks off to become a fugitive, actively fights his former trusted comrades, and Bucky critically injures Stark's oldest and most loyal friend. Add in that Stark probably looks to Steve as a bit of a moral compass after leading them all to victory in AoU, and he's really fucking angry about what Cap's doing now. From Stark's perspective, this is basically a giant betrayal, especially considering he was really starting to look up to cap.
>>77793723
Yet Stark's vision in AoU confirms that his comrades are the most important thing to him, even if he'll never admit it openly. They had their differences, but if you think that fighting Alien invasions, globe-spanning terrorist organizations, and killer robot armies together doesn't form bonds as strong as family, especially when Stark helped provide the majority of the tech, logistics, and funding the Avengers used during that time period while fighting alongside them on the frontlines, then you're probably an asshole.
>>77793528
>>77793915
Wow you are reading too much into a straight to netflix movie seriously this was made to last 2 hours before the next movie where they're all magically friends again like this movie never happened
You shouldn't treat it as some philosophical debate the entire movie looks like it was filmed in a Canadian parking lot
>>77793528
>anymore
>>77793528
Cap and Tony are about as close as Bruce and Clark will be in BvS.
>>77793943
why are you on /co/
>>77793943
I think you're on the wrong website, buddy. This is kind of a whole board about discussing fiction with more fervor and scrutiny than the average normie on facebook.
Oh wait, it's trolling.
Is this a stealth gay thread?
>>77793528
Tony is just mad that Cap got second white male friend while Tony doesn't have any.
He gets Black Panther so he can at least have more black friends.
>>77793528
Who needs friends when you got justice?
>>77793915
That's a lot of reaching, buddy.
>>77794001
valentine could have made america better.time to re-read SBR again
>>77794930>tfw you'd rather vote for Valentine than Trump
>>77793578
you know that's pretty fucking messed up.
>>77793554
>>77793551
This. Tony is being his entitled shit self, and is jealous that Cap is siding with the guy who treated him like he was special before he was Cap over the guy who thought the only thing special about him came out of the bottle. I love how the trailer kind of shifted the coversation from Team Cap/Team Iron Man to Team Bucky/Team Tony.
My sister claimed Team Tony over Thanksgiving while I am sticking with Team Bucky.
>>77793528
It's not that bad. Friends fight all the time.
>yfw you're not Cap's best friend anymore
is more accurate IMO.
I wonder if Sam is jealous of Bucky
>>77793915
>who, in spite of his brainwashing
You really can't dismiss this in a post Jessica Jones MCU.
The things he's done are horrible, and let us not forget that the assassination of Tony's parents are included in them, but Bucky wasn't in control. It is not fair to hold him accountable.
>>77793973
This is completely unrelated but I need more bait pictures.
Please continue posting them along with your discussion.
>>77793915
>in spite of his brainwashing
Diminished capacity to an extremely retarded degree, his brain was literally washed and reprogrammed during his service to HYDRA.
It wasn't some dick-in-the-butt indoctrination that individuals have fallen for later in their life and cry about later that it wasn't their fault, it was SCIENCE! reprogramming, no one could convict him for anything.
>>77793915
>Yet Stark's vision in AoU confirms that his comrades are the most important thing to him
Not at all. His vision shows he sees the Avengers as tools to keep the world safe and that if they were stopped, the world would be at risk. It was because his vision showed a threat that stopped them that became his motivation to create Ultron. I think he'd prefer to keep them alive if he could, but the priority of his intentions in AoU was protecting the world. Not his team.
>>77796451
>>77796772
Thanks
This line doesn't change the fact that this movie looks like trash.
Remember when you guys fell for that with the age of ultron trailer?
Anyway. The line doesn't make sense, Tony and cap were never firends
>>77793528
heh check this faggot out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVEL9exTrXY
>>77796451
>>77796451
>Age of Ultron is all about Tony having to learn that you don't get to play god with no consequences and that the Avengers need supervision
>Cap is the one who stood firmly by this idea throughout the entire movie, rightly giving Tony shit for all the stupid things he did
>Cap is doing the same fucking thing but justifies it because "muh Bucky"
Iron Man better win this shit
>inb4 it's Captain America's movie
Which would only make it even more pleasant and surprising if they had the balls to have Cap be wrong
>>77798341
>Age of Ultron is all about Tony having to learn that you don't get to play god with no consequences and that the Avengers need supervision
No, it wasn't.
>Cap is doing the same fucking thing but justifies it because "muh Bucky"
No, he isn't.
>>77798341
I'm pretty sure they are going to make it ambiguous.
The conclusion will probably be a compromise of some sort.
Anyway, that fucking webm
>>77798341
Tony
>Mess with an alien tech, almost gets the whole world killed
Steve
>Manages to rescue his brainwashed friend from Hydra, knows it wasn't his fault because brainswashing. The trailer makes it clear Bucky won't get a fair trial and will be killed on sight.
>Cap
>Being wrong
>For wanting to defend human life
>Cap
>Being as wrong as fucking Tony for wanting to save the life of his friend
>>77798818
>The conclusion will probably be a compromise of some sort.
>>77798875
In all fairness Tony did what he did so none of the Avengers would ever have to do anything again and the world would have no conflict because he realizes the Avengers as a whole are dangerous. And in the case of Vision it kind of worked.
>>77798818
>Let me take away your freedoms!
>No!
>Okay, lets meet half way.
>>77799424
That's how it works in real life, too.
>>77799438
Yep, and then the other half are taken in small chunks.
Freedom is an illusion anyway in our world. In a completely 'free' world there is no real social contract beyond 'wow, your daughter is really cute, think me and my boys are taking her with us. And all your food. Actually, we might leave her after we are done, as it's another mouth to feed. We will take the food though. Or else.'
>>77799602
>Edgiest Post Of The Year.jpg
>>77793926
I see this posted a lot. Who are the first two characters that Cap approves of?
>>77793915
>when Tony fucked up, he was held responsible and did everything he could to make up for it
Yeah like Ultron, or a literal act of war in the first movie with attacking terrorists.
He's always "makes up" for that.
>>77796493
>>77796393
The other argument could be made is that while Bucky may indeed not be to blame for his past actions, that because of HYDRA's conditioning he's still a ticking time bomb who can easily be reverted back into a dangerous weapon at any time and Steve is being selfish for protecting a guy who might continue to kill.
>>77793915
Tony has fucked up so much and not answered for some of those fuck ups, dude was even willing to let Sokovia drop with people but Cap wasn't willing to move until every single person was evacuated.
We don't know what Tony wants with Bucky yet from the trailer but it's clear that him and everyone pro reg doesn't want Steve to protect him and it's clear that Steve is doing it because it's very likely that most of the pro regs' interests don't lie on helping Bucky or giving him justice as much as they just want to incarcerate or kill him. Bucky suffered through so much shit from Hydra so he doesn't deserve getting more shit.
Also the Avengers may have formed bonds but Steve and Tony weren't two of them, Steve seems to tolerate Stark until Stark pisses him off and Stark has so much bagagge.
>>77800227
Steve probably doesn't give a rat's ass about Tony, but I think Tony does care a lot about Steve on some level, like a dysfunctional older brother. He probably feels possessive of him or something.
>>77799602
Oh, hallo, Oberstgruppenfuhrer Schmidt!
How's that new transcontinental bomber coming along?
>>77796342
Why would he? Cap is still his bro and Sam knows how important Bucky is to him, that's why he helps him.
Sides Sam and Bucky will develop a friendship of their own eventually.
>>77796342
The Avengers prove you can have more than one bro. It's not like Steve's gonna ditch him for Bucky. He's totally cool with them being a trio.
>>77798341
Fuck off Tony had no consequences from Ultron and he didn’t even apologize for that shit even when Bruce pointed guilt on both of them.
Cap didn't make a murder weapon, he is trying to save his friend while everyone else is ready to condemn him with no trial or kill him.
>>77798977
>It kinda worked because Vision
Vision was created by Ultron and as good as he can be, several people died in the process and if it wasn't for the combined effort of all avengers they wouldn't be able to stop Ultron's plans.
The entire point is that Steve is not fucking wrong if we go by the trailer and to compare his actions to the creation of fucking Ultron is a no contest, Tony fucked up, Steve didn't.
>>77798977
He fucking started the whole shit regardless of intentions, he just cleaned his own mess by making another mess that miracously worked and turned into something good.
>>77793943
GTFO /co/, you casual faggot.
>>77800364
Steve is the sort of guy who would stop when asked to, so this is BS.
>>77800364
>gay
>>77800291
Tony has been hearing about Steve since he was a baby and from his dad who had a lot of love and respect for Steve and if you go by Agent Carter his biggest wish was to find him alive in the artic and bring him back home.
Also Howard had so much Cap memorabilia and you even see some in Iron Man 2, so yeah Tony already made up his feelings about Steve before he met the guy and yeah he does kind of care for him while Steve only sees Tony mostly as a coworker and Howard's son at the most.
>inb4 "Iron Man for the thinkers"
>>77800364
This is kinda gay, anon.
>>77799602
of course it's a fucking illusion, what are you 14? You live within the boundaries of society. Even ISIS lives within their own boundaries, if they don't follow the rules, they are punished or kicked out. All you have is freedom in your own head, that is ALL your true freedom is. Which is why freedom of speech is one of the most important things to protect and these days both the right and left are clamping down on it and it has to stop.
sorry to /pol/ out on you. And to /sci/ out freedom of choice is an illusion anyway and our brains and thoughts are all deterministic anyway
>>77800600
Ultron was only created by an accident of looking into alien tech. Sure, Tony should have been more careful but it was something to be opened up and studied. Ultron who was imprinted upon the alien tech was something they didn't forsee happening. Bruce and Tony didn't know what the brain network in the Gem was but they didn't want it to get out immediately. They didn't forsee Ultron almost killing Jarvis and getting into the network.
Yeah, stupid mistake by both Banner and Stark but it's not like they didn't have a failsafe in place, just one that didn't work cause of the fucking Mind Gem!
Tony being put under government control is the responsible thing to do.
>>77798341
>Tony reveals that he began work on Extremis after considering the medical uses
>tests it on himself after the Anti-Reg side messes up his armor
>Bleeding Edge armor is introduced to the MCU
>Tony kicks Cap's ass to pieces with it
>Cap states that Tony went over the line by using Extremis
>Tony shows to Cap the multitude of safeguards he made depending on if someone got a hold of Extremis or Anti-Extremis tech
>Cap is taken to stand trial with Bucky, Clint, and Sam
>Scott Ant-Mans out of there but Pym takes away the suit
>the four in jail are approached by Fury to become the Secret Avengers alongside Quicksilver
>Pym reveals to Scott he was preparing the suit to become full Giant Man and reveals the new Wasp suit but will only allow them to use it if they register
>Black Widow, War Machine, Scarlet Witch, The Vision, Ant Man, and the Wasp form the New Avengers
>Tony is mostly independent again with the addition of being registered
>movie ends with the reveal that his armor is now space-ready and he's sent to investigate what's basically a teaser for Thanos
>>77801476
>muh physical determinism
literally the most autistic concept in the world, perception is reality and we perceive choice.
>>77801659
>mind gem
>tech
fuck off moviefag
>>77800364
>implying Tony isn't too much of a control freak or that Steve isn't the bottoming type
>>77801154
Not if the balls don't touch.
It's fine, he doesn't get to bring friends
>>77802402
perception is a pre-programmed choice. The illusion of free will is real and useful in society in terms of law and other things. On a personal level it exists, but not at a physical level.
>>77793943
Bait but bvs is ultimately the same thing they're just going to be friends again after fighting that's the problem with hero v hero it's so temporary it's an awful idea
>>77793528
> Rhodey hospitaled
> Vision has been turned by Wandalust
> Cap is no longer my friend
>>77804050
how is Pepper going to abandon him now?
>>77799922
I'm under the impression that HYDRA have let Cap find Semi-Fucked Up Bucky to lead down a path of retardedness.
>>77804604
Or so Bucky could be activated to kill him in his most vulnerable moment.
>>77793528
They were friends?
>>77799727
Buttblasted anons.
The first one's Starbrand: Due to the death of the multiverse, a white event occurred which is what empowers Starbrand. The AoE of that empowering fries a college and then the Avengers pretty much keep goading him into a fight until Starbrand gets tired of kicking their shit in when the dude has had no training over his powers. Cap makes him an Avenger to keep an eye on him and make sure he gets the training he needs.
Second is Ex Nihilo, who, in trying to ensure the multiverse doesn't die, seeds several genesis bombs on Earth that allow it to start becoming sentient in order to defend itself from the dangers to come. Eventually they agree to keep themselves out of each other's hair until Thanos pops up and tries to rape the universe. Cap makes Ex Nihilo and his sister abyss reserve Avengers pretty much until Infinity is over and then they become largely irrelevant until 8 Months Later when, once again, they're trying to save the multiverse.
Iron Man and the Illuminati come up with the solution that to save their own universe, they're ok with genociding alternate Earths Steve "There's always another way" Rogers takes issue with this and the Illuminati force him to forget he ever knew about the end of the multiverse via Strange magic. Cap is understandably pissed that they've decided to want to keep destroying other earths and then forcing him to forget so that he can't interfere.
>>77800888
Howard kind of neglected Tony while bigging up Cap so there's an inferiority complex there.
Russos described it as "kind of a sick relationship."
>>77802336
>but will only allow them to use it if they register
But Pym was very anti-government in the films. You're retarded.
>>77793528
such great friends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02cpKtKhu-M
>>77805022
Pym wasn't Anti-Government persay. He was against using the Pym Particles as super weapons which only a handful of war mongers were pushing for. Using them in a safe, non-destructive way and having either people trained or weapons as a backup in case the suit goes into rogue hands is viable to be in-character for Hank.
>>77805022
Not anti-government in general, just anti-SHIELD with good reason because they were fucking HYDRA.
>>77804604
He's a honeypot to troll all the Stucky shippers.
>>77805825
Pym wouldn't leave his particles in the hands of the Government to do with as they wish. He wouldn't even let Shield touch them, and he's gonna entrust them to Ross?
No. He'll back Scott's decision to remain renegade.
>>77800227
Common rumor is that as the Winter Soldier, Bucky was the one responsible for assassinating Howard Stark. Like T'Challa, Tony takes it personally.
>>77793528
But Cap was never his friend
>>77800497
>Steve there's a nigger following us
>what'd he say?
>WOAH BUCK there are some things I need to brief you on before we start meeting people
>if Tony don't kill his ass I get second dibs
>I don't understand ...
>>77800589
>if we can't respect limitations we're no different from the bad guys
>>77805022
And hates Starks!
>>77793528
>>77813987
>>77793528
>>77813532
Do they have to be sucking each other's dicks and cry about how good friends they are before you accept it?
They're not besties, but they're clearly friends by the end of AOU.
>>77800364
>Steve being a rapist
>Steve topping
Western fujos are utter shit.
>>77793528
Good
He was a loserI hope he gets shot
>>77793915
I hope every single thing you say is true, obvious canon in Civil War.
>>77799922
>Steve is being selfish for protecting a friend
You're completely full of shit. Steve completely gave up his reputation and status as an avenger to make sure that Bucky stayed alive. That's not selfish. Call it stupid, sure, but it's not like he isn't paying for it whether he wins or not.
Sure, Bucky's possibly a time bomb, but you've got to see where Steve's coming from here.
These guys aren't gonna recondition Bucky or give him PTSD therapy or anything like that. They're gonna straight-up kill the guy. Of course Cap's gonna take a stand against that. That's just his nature.
>>77815360
But not so close that they're like a married couple like that one dumb line implies.
>>77793528
>demeans and belittles Steve at any given opportunity, even more so than the rest of the Avengers
>clearly has the same relationship with Cap as Batman does with Hal Jordan: reluctant tolerance at best
>is upset and on the brink of tears because Cap chose to side with his actual childhood friend over him
They were never friends to begin with.
>>77799785
This. If they're gonna send swat teams in for a guy who wasn't in control of a wake of destruction he was directly involved in, they should go after the guy behind Ultron. And there's no guarantee that Tony won't end up making an equally destructive mistake as he goes on.
>>77813698
Howling Commandos included Gabe Jones, son.
>>77805008
This explains why Tony gives Cap so much shit.
It's like being a kid whose parents won't shut up about the favorite son. Like Tony's jealous because Steve's everything he's not. The "everything you are came out of a bottle" line seems to back this up. He tried to crunch everything that Steve was, and not just his powers, into a simple formula that could be applied to anyone. He was trying to bring Steve down to his own level, at least in his head.
>>77815834
I don't think he should die. He should live with the mistakes he's going to make. Have those memories sink into that insecure mind of his. He'll drink himself to death.
>>77815924
It would be the classic dilemma of whether Steve should protect someone he cares about but who is probably going to murder a thousand people in the future, or sacrifice his friend and his own personal happiness to protect that of the people Bucky would've otherwise killed if he was allowed to live. It's Heaven's Feel, but hopefully with less worms or rape.
>>77796312
Bucky all the fucking way.
The guy who accidentally brought Ultron into the world has no right to hang a brainwashed soldier out to dry.
He didn't seem to mind when Hulk went out of control, and even prepared for it. He's literally gone AWOL and Tony's not doing a fucking thing to hunt him down, despite full knowledge that he's far more likely to go on a rampage than Bucky.
If Bucky killed his parents, and that's the reason why he wants to bring Bucky down, he's still not in the right. That's just petty revenge. He can add reasons like "he's still dangerous" or "the people need justice" but the bottom line is he just wants to kill the man who killed his parents.
Meanwhile Cap just wants to help his friend, even if it costs him everything to do so.
>>77816354
So either he destroys his best friend and happiness or he destroys his freedom and reputation.
Cap's got it the worst here.
>>77815806
>steve topping
>bad
He's a red blooded American. America doesn't take dick.
>>77816354
Obviously Cap should let Bucky live because at least he's not a wifebeater.
>>77816397
Bucky cared about him before he had the serum and the shield and the world just thought of him as 4F. The choice is clear. End of the line, and Steve ain't going back on his word.
>>77816496
Tony needs to stay out of this fucking conflict. The whole thing is making him look like a hypocritical asshole, and he's clearly going after Bucky out of revenge anyway.
War Machine should lead the manhunt at least. Somebody with no emotional attachment one way or another.
>>77816397
Cap's naturally going for the former. He's a pretty self-sacrificing guy who doesn't really care about any of that stuff as long as he's got Bucky with him.
But if Bucky gets Sputnik'd into killing tons of innocents, then even if he can prove that Bucky was mind-controlled by HYDRA when it happened, it's going to have to have to weigh on Cap's conscience pretty heavily. All those people who died were probably someone else's Bucky.
>>77816507
Oh, no question what he chose to sacrifice. I don't blame him either. He'd have to be a coldblooded prick to do otherwise, and that just isn't Steve.
>>77816518
I hope Steve calls Tony out for his blatant hypocrisy. The Avengers stuck by Tony after all his fuckups. Sam is the true friend, helping Steve rescue Bucky.
>>77816527
Yeah, it would fuck him up.
He'd be less likely to think "I was wrong" than he would "I should've looked into it."
And that's if Cap doesn't have a plan to examine the extent of Bucky's brainwashing if he clears his name. There's no reason why he wouldn't.
>>77816527
Sputnik knocks Bucky out, it's not a trigger to kill. But I wouldn't doubt there's something implanted in him that Hydra will still try to trigger.
>>77816575
In the comics yeah, but chances are the movie will turn it into a killswitch of some sort given that it's the movie's working title. There was a recent interview from Sebastian Stan about how HYDRA's conditioning goes deeper than Bucky thinks.
Steve was better friends with Tonys father than he is with Tony himself. That's likely why there is more animosity between them than friendship. Steve had the admiration and respect of Howard Stark that Tony himself never felt that he could live up to. He feels the same insecurity and sense of inadequacy that he felt towards living up to the legacy of his father towards living up to the ideals that Steve lives by.
The Captain better have a cohesive plan to prove Bucky's innocence.
If a single innocent person dies as a result of Bucky's actions, then he goes to Trial.
I don't give a shit how much of an emotional tie Captain America has to him. Even if Bucky was brainwashed by Hydra - he was responsible for a number of murders via hypnotic suggestion.
Bucky's too mentally damaged to do any good as a hero. He honestly needs to just turn himself in. He also needs to undergo Psych Evals, then be tried in a court of law.
As for Steve - you don't jeopardize national security and uproot the entire Government - Superhero establishment for one person. There are steps and protocols that need to be taken. You can't just go all Gung-Ho and expect everyone to bow down to you.
Again, if a single person dies In the crossfire of this little "War" then it's on everyone's head, especially Steve's.
>>77816608
I'm sure there will be conflict and fighting off their control, but highly doubt they'd trash Bucky's redeemability completely by making him go on to slaughter innocents after Steve sacrifices everything. That'd ruin any chance for BuckyCap and also be a pretty rough way to wrap up the Cap trilogy. He loses Bucky in 1+2, stakes are higher than ever and he can't fail this time.
>>77816608
>>77816575
WORDS THAT KILL
>>77816495
Taking dick is the only thing America is good for now.
>>77816766
>he was responsible for being strung along like a literal puppet
That idiocy aside, you seem to think they're gonna bring this to trial. All the evidence shows that all everyone, Tony included, wants to do is kill Bucky as soon as possible.
Steve isn't protecting Bucky from due process. He's protecting him from a lynch mob.
>>77816766
>Bucky's too mentally damaged to do any good as a hero.
And yet even Stark gives him the shield to take over as Cap when Steve dies.
>>77816822
Cap has never been a symbol of modern day America.
>>77816832
My point is that regardless of fault, he was still the causal factor that murdered people. I just think Cap's constant attempts to protect him from the Governor are stupid.
I don't hate Bucky. I honestly think he should be caught and tried asap.
Before any "bloodlusted" heroes like Iron Man or Black Panther can get to him.
>>77816766
The system has proven corrupt. Hydra even had people in the Senate. Why would I trust General Ross over Captain America
>>77816832
So just one person has to go to jail or kick the bucket to keep stability?
I'm that case, get him before he presents a danger to himself or anyone else. The only person who really gives a shot about him is Steve.
As far as I'm concerned, Bucky should've died all those years ago.
>>77816904
He's killed too many influential geopolitical figures to receive anything but death. This is beyond normal civilian affairs. Bucky would inevitably receive punishment he doesn't deserve.
>>77816904
There's no question that Cap is stupid over Bucky. Remember when he was going to walk all the way to Austria in spandex with a prop helmet and shield all in the offchance that Bucky might have survived capture? Bros, man.
>>77816958
>Bucky should've died all those years ago
Whedon, pls go.
>>77816958
Bucky is Steve's brother anon. They're with each other to the end of the line. Loyalty like that is worth fighting for
>>77816904
See, I agree with this, Cap would probably agree with this, and even fucking Bucky would be all for this. I don't think they're unaware of the problem, nor do I think they're hiding it.
There are a couple of things to mention, however: 1.) Cap likely has little trust in the government after what went down in Winter Soldier, and 2.) (and this is the big one) the trailer seems to heavily imply that Panther and Iron Man are the least of Bucky's problems. It's like absolutely everyone but Cap and some of his friends want Bucky burned at the stake for what he was forced to do (after all, that wasn't Tony's swat team busting their door down). Cap wouldn't see this as justice, but rather martial law or even an abuse of power (which Tony, especially if the dead parents rumor is true, seems to be supporting), and of course he's gonna fight that, to the death if necessary.
>>77815924
This is the other dumb thing. Why kill him at all?
Bucky knows many Hydra secrets. Even if he doesn't know it. He could be useful as a prisoner.
>>77816958
And you're an edgy fuck.
Why not contain him and study how exactly his head got fucked? They clearly have the technology at this point to do this without even hurting the guy. Such study would be incredibly helpful, especially if there are other brainwashed HYDRA agents about.
Killing him would accomplish nothing but to appease masses who are easily distracted anyway.
>>77817032
Bucky doesn't know anything. The world would just want him dead
>>77816975
>>77816976
I understand Steve's connection to his friend, but it's still monumentally stupid.
He is literally instigating a conflict with the potential to tear apart the United States over his friend.
One man will never be worth the lives of hundreds of millions - no matter how important they seem. How many people have to die in the name of your beloved best friend?
Steve is not justified under any means here. Neither is Tony for being a selfish, jealous bloodlusted bastard.
Much like in the Comic Arc, both sides are too blindly entrenched in their personal beliefs to the point where they disregard the opposing side.
This makes for an action packed conflict, which could've easily been avoided if both sides weren't led by self-absorbed hypocrites.
>>77817032
Exactly. This is what makes any debate on Tony's side idiotic at this point.
The simple fact seems to be that Tony's side only wants Bucky's head with no compromise. From a writing standpoint it's the only decision MCU Cap would firmly stand against, but it ends up turning team Tony into a bunch of mad extremists no better than ISIS.
>>77817047
>He is literally instigating a conflict with the potential to tear apart the United States over his friend.
No, he's literally keeping someone from being killed without a trial.
>>77817047
It's not just about Bucky man. Steve knows it's a mistake to submit themselves to the will of the government's that have proven corrupt time and time again. He's earned the right to operate with autonomy. Steve is absolutely justified in doing what he's doing.
Why do you support giving the authority over the operations of a superhero strike force to the hands of politicians proved to abuse their power?
>>77817047
>He is literally instigating a conflict
The angry mob fired the first shot.
>>77817062
You can't see why they'd want to kill him? He's extremely dangerous, mentally unstable and could easily slip back under Hydra control, and has already killed dozens of important political leaders in the world
>>77817078
Did you miss the part where the world's Premier Superhuman are now fighting each other because of Bucky?
If innocent people get caught in the crossfire then all of them are at fault.
Or would you rather a family member get killed in a conflict which could've been prevented by turning the man in?
>>77817093
This I don't agree with.
That said he is justified in not allowing a strike force, government funded or otherwise, to shoot Bucky down without the chance to defend himself in a court of law.
>>77817110
A fight that could easily have ended if Tony or somebody at least said they were going to give Bucky a fair trial.
This is the same country that puts school shooters in bulletproof vests on the way to their trial.
If Bucky doesn't get similar treatment then there's a serious abuse of power that requires address. It's simply not justice.
>>77816870
Who cares, he's still taking dick.
>>77798341
>>77798469
>>77798875
>>77798818
Cap is right in saying Bucky deserves a fair chance and that his life is worth protecting.
Tony is right in saying that Cap and the rest of The Avengers should really have to answer to some level of objective oversight.
>>77817110
I wouldn't be so quick to surrender my ideals and loyalty to my brother because people are afraid and people might get killed.
This is what your argument boils down to. Trying to impose guilt and shame upon people who hold themselves to a belief that they are willing to die and shed the blood of others for. You're still wrapped up in the soccer mom safety locks mentality. People like you, there is nothing you wouldn't bow to, belief you wouldn't sacrifice, brother you wouldn't betray in the name of "safety"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
>>77817150
Even then, there's no fair trial for Bucky. They found him guilty for murder and fucking sent him to the Russian gulag.
>>77817093
Because the original idea of the SRA was fine.
At it's core, The Governor wanted Superheroes to be held accountable for their actions, something that should've existed from the beginning.
The problems arose when writers for Civil War wanted to justify Cap and Iron Man duking it out.
Leading to moments of mis-characterization and extremely out of character moments from both men.
If you leave superhumans without a means of being assigned personal accountability, you run the risk of destabilizing society.
Or do you honestly think that rules were made to be broken? They exist to be enforced.
>>77813832
>This isn't some cute technology like Iron man suit!
>>77817185
Who would deliver this objective oversight anon? There is literally no elected official, no politician that I would trust more than Captain America. I think Steve has the proper judgement for this oversight.
If you actually think about it, Steve has never done anything to warrant such a demand. It's only been Tony who's been irresponsible and destructive. He's the only one who needs to be controlled. Steve has done his duty right by everyone in everything he's encountered. He works with the already established authorities and doesn't go beyond his reach. He contently does his job and stands up to threats when they occur in the world. Tony is the one who tries to play God and has a savior complex that drives him to extremes
>>77817210
In what world are they not accountable for their actions? In what world would the corrupt government not just immediately abuse having a superhuman strike force at their disposal that does whatever they say?
Everyone constantly complains about stupid shit like collateral damage, like superheroes are somehow a burden, but these are the same people that have saved the entire world multiple times. They deserve some grace on our part for what they do.
>>77817196
So you would willingly put yourself in situations that could potentially lead to needless. Suffering all in the name of your ideals?
It's one thing to cause pain and suffering over something tangible. But over a personal belief?
>>77817210
The choice isn't between direct government control and no oversight. Why can't the government just enforce laws normally. If the avengers go to far or start doing shit like murdering people, the have a trial, investigation and if needed punishment.
>>77817209
Being sent to prison isn't the same as getting shot down in the streets, which is something that would almost definitely have happened if Bucky walked out with his hands in the air, and that's according to the trailer.
>>77817324
Beliefs and ideals lead to tangible outcomes in reality. Fighting for a ideal usually means that you think the world would be better of with the ideal in practice. There's nothing wrong with fighting for ideals, the problem is the content of the ideals themselves, but thats a seperate argument.
>>77817324
Suffering in the name of an ideal is not needless. It's people like you that cast away your honor and sell your soul at the first sign of sacrifice. Your only ideal is your own comfort.
>>77817319
Nobody complains about superheroes saving the world. That's to be expected of them.
They complain when their family are unfortunately killed in the battles. When their homes are upturned and destroyed.
In the mind of an average person, a superhero who isn't capable of containing a conflict is no hero at all.
The story In Civil War happened because a new generation of heroes were irresponsible and short-sighted.
Also, governments aren't inherently evil, and the SRA mainly wanted superheroes to begin officially holding responsibility for unfortunate events as a community.
It's the first steps to easing us the General public, hopefully to the point where we can trust them someday.
>>77817319
Ever seen the second act episodes of Gurren Lagann?
It doesn't really matter who is responsible, politicians and people need/want someone to blame, anyone, for any tragedy or disaster. So, with a villain already behind bars (or in some cases loose) people will quickly betray their own saviors.
At least in fiction.
Thankfully I have yet to hear of non-suicidal people suing Firefighters for water damages to their burning homes.
>>77817282
This. And it's not the first time Cap's stood against what he thought was his government for something that turned out to be right. It was Hydra all along, but Cap didn't know that at the time. He just knew that the people he worked for were about to do things that interfered with the peoples' rights, and the second those rights are threatened, even for one person, even if they're the precious few rights of a criminal, he's going to fight until those rights are no longer threatened.
>>77817373
You're judging me for recognizing that I want a world with as little conflict and strife as possible?
I'm not trying to take the more high ground here - at least not as adamantly as you are.
Judge me all you want, just be absolutely sure what you're fighting for is worth it. The second you have doubts.....
>>77817374
Superheros aren't expected at all to begin with, they're above and beyond what humans are capable of. Every time they've saved the world should be seen as a blessing, not taken for granted. Fate can be cruel and people will die, but we also are all alive because of these heroes.
The world should not bow to the whims of the average person, who is themselves morally reprehensible, petty, short sighted, ignorant and fickle.
>>77817210
Except that argument only works stripped of the context of the MU. This is a place where in less than twenty years the President of the USA was a member of neo-nazi organization, the Secretary of Defense was the Red Skull, SHIELD and various other government agencies had been infiltrated by terrorist groups, supervillains, and aliens, a crimelord was able to buy the services of superhuman Army operative, and the US government had sponsored two separate programs to hunt down and kill mutants. Probably the only comic universe that has the MU beat for a horrific and incompetent intermingling of government and superheroics is Wildstorm.
>>77817282
Presumably, some sort of multinational, perhaps UN-sponsored coalition of elected and appointed officials who will authorize and monitor the actions of The Avengers Initiative.
Obviously, Steve is an exemplary individual whose conduct has repeatedly proven to be beyond reproach, but that's not the point. S.H.I.E.L.D. and The Avengers claim to be an organization that represents the protection and preservation of the entirety of humanity, buy by and large answer solely to themselves whenever they act. That lack of oversight is frightening; a handful of individuals with no accountability or mandate from anyone but themselves routinely make decisions that dramatically impact the entirety of the world.
Hell, the example you have about Tony is exactly WHY oversight is needed, and why he himself is so adamant about creating it. Tony knows that, at the level The Avengers operate at, it just takes one bad mistake that you convinced yourself into thinking was the right decision to place the entire world into peril. Had there been more rigid oversight to answer to, there is no way Project Ultron would have ever been greenlit. Cap has never shown significant error on his decision making so far, but there's no guarantee that it will continue in the future. All it takes is one terrible mistake.
>>77817374
The problem is that government has no inherant insight that would make them better at controlling superheros. Accidents will happen with or without government control. Only under government, instead of crimes, these accidents will be state sanctioned and therefore will be made to look legitimate and warrented in the name of national security.
>>77817411
>Cap has never shown significant error on his decision making so far, but there's no guarantee that it will continue in the future. All it takes is one terrible mistake.
Calling it now; Cap is wrong about Bucky. He's still rogue, and he ends up killing Tony.
>>77817403
Absolutely, as that strifeless path you're paving leads straight to Hell. This is the mentality of Tony's that created Ultron. You're going beyond your reach as a mortal.
Steve knows that there will always be strife, suffering and conflict in the world. He's humble enough to accept his limitations and know that he cannot change the nature of reality. He simply takes upon himself the responsibility of standing up to these threats when they show themselves. It's not his lot to go beyond this
>>77817411
More likely some military official would have seen the ultron project as a potential asset and approved it. Government oversight doesn't mean accountability in any sense, it just means that any crimes or destructive actions of the avengers are now directed by the government.
>>77817404
The funny thing though, is that it kinda is.
It's why Superman will bend over backwards to help the average person. It's what he was raised to do.
Nowadays, superheroes are essentially seen as public servants. Everyone goes Apeshit when a cop either abuses their power or screws up in fantastical manner.
The Same would probably be applied to Superheroes.
That's the whole point of Spider-Man's character. The average New Yorker will probably shit on him for the rest of his career.
Does that stop him from being a great Superhero and helping people? Nope. He'd die for the average man if they were in danger and he were capable of saving them
If he didn't he wouldn't be able to live with yourself. Say what you will about guilt, but it's a powerful personal motivator to become a better person.
>>77817374
>>77817411
HYDRA infiltrators detected.
>>77817374
The New Warriors had been around for years at that point with several of their members also holding membership. in the Avengers. Their reality show was the second in-universe superhero reality show. The New Warriors weren't doing anything that had been deemed wreckless, irresponsible, or short-sighted until after the fact. The fact is that the SRA scapegoated superheroes for the actions of a supervillain who would have done the same thing if faced by cops.
>>77817436
I'd fucking love for this to happen. The tears from the "Cap is Always Right!" Brigade would sustain me for years.
>>77817403
Inaction doesn't ensure there's less strife in the world, and surrendering to an oppressive government, while nonviolent, is far worse for everyone in the end than conflict; no government should be above its own rights.
Sometimes conflict is necessary, and some things must not stand. It doesn't matter how much peace you want.
>>77817411
Anon, giving the UN the authority over a superhuman task force that they have complete control over is far more terrifying than having this team lead by Captain America alone.
Why do you think these UN officials would have better judgement than Captain America? Because Steve might make a bad decision in the future? Is the UN immune from corruption and making bad decisions?
>>77817436
hasn't it been all but confirmed that Bucky still has a bunch of killphrases he's completely vulnerable to?
>>77817446
That speaks more to the narcissistic entitlement of our society than anything else, viewing a man like Captain America as their servant that they believe they deserve and can tell what to do.
>>77817404
>Superheros aren't expected at all to begin with
'Superheroes' have been a thing since WWII in-universe. The majority of people alive had never known a world without them
>>77817521
That doesn't mean that they aren't rare and unexpected forces in the world. We're talking about a handful of people here
>>77817492
>Is the UN immune from corruption and making bad decisions?
Even better, it's so bureaucratic that it barely make decisions. A UN controlled superhuman task force would spend all its time running peacekeeping missions in Africa.
Someone needs make an edit of this with Cap, Bucky and Tony
>>77817562
whoops, forgot image
>>77817439
Meh, there's nothing wrong with thinking big. It's what got us to where we are.
As for the nature of reality, everything is subject to change. The beliefs and ideologies people have now may not even be carried into the future.
Around 40 years ago, blatant Homophobia, Racism and Sexism were the norm. Nowadays, you can still be anyone of those things, but lost People will end up ripping you a new asshole.
If it weren't for numerous people who had the balls to try and think above the paradigm, things wouldn't have changed in the manner they did.
You seem convinced that people just are the way they are, ignoring the fact that literally every single one of us are the product kg our circumstances, environment and choices.
For all of his bad choices, Tony Stark still tried to do the right thing. He could've easily ended up like Stand, a madman who would rape the world for his own personal gain. Yes he fucked up, numerous times, and that's apart of his character. But in spite of all the shit he's done, and has been done to him - he STILL has the best of intentions.
>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
I have nothing against you personally, but I can't accept a world were people refuse to think big, who refuse to try an be something more than what others say they are.
>>77795976
>implying thats a bad thing
valentine IS a good president that just happened to want to rule the world like any president would.
>>77796342
nah
>filename
kek
>>77798341
so no one is gonna post the rick and morty edit?
>>77793551
Kyoani found a way.
>>77817580
You don't realize that the end point of your thinking is to impose your ideology forcibly on others. Ironically, for your talk of thinking big, you're only thinking a few steps ahead. You'll find the people who agree with you and want to live in the world you envision, but what do you do when you encounter people within your society who do not want to share your vision or live in your world? You have to take their autonomy away from them.
Maybe we aren't meant to have God complexes and try to alter the course of society. You always forget that you will be destroying many people's Iives in the process
>>77817580
Hanging your friend out to dry for no other reason than to keep Tony from shooting at you and possibly others is not the same thing as thinking big.
>>77817557
They'll be playing geopolitical games and simply be making it look like they're doing something in the world when they're not
>>77817436
Unlikely since RDJ is confirmed for both Infinity War movies and has less reason to be turned into some sort of Infinity Force Ghost.
>>77817645
Why do you assume that if I think of something, I'll want to subjugate your own beliefs?
I might talk to you about it. Discuss it with you, but I'm not going to hold a gun to your head and force you to accept my beliefs. You're nowhere near that important to warrant that. :) /s
Seriously though how have this major us vs them mentality going on. Like someone's gunning for you.
The people who pushed for big ideas only received positive responses from everyone else when demos and small examples were shown of situations which proved the value and utility of said ideas.
Not by threatening them. Seriously dude, no one's out to get you.
>>77804974
>Buttblasted anons.
>
>The first one's Starbrand
Best bit was when he blasted the Hulk off the face of the planet. Carol flies up to retrieve the big green guy and decides to Hulk them all from orbit (to be sure). She must have been so disappointed to fly back down and see Stark survived.
>>77796342
The Empire interview with the Russos made jokes about it, yes.
>>77817580
What does that have to do with whether Bucky should live or die?
Sure, Tony's trying to make up for his mistakes, but the bottom line is he wants to kill (or at the very least taking the side of those who want to kill) a man who scares people in the attempt, despite the fact that such a man is innocent in the eyes of the law until proven guilty.
While making up for his mistakes he's simultaneously refusing to give someone else the chance to make up for his own.
That's blatant hypocrisy. A bigger man, and a bigger thinker, would be his bodyguard on the way to the trial.
>>77817699
Second panel looks like Carol and Hulk are going to slip into a supply closet for a quickie.
>>77817697
You're literally defending General Ross and the government doing exactly what I described to Steve and the Avengers. What happens when we have this conversation and we're diametrically opposed and cannot reconcile this difference? What if the world you envision and your way of life directly conflicts with my way of life? It always ends the same way, with one group just surely knowing that they are right and taking away the autonomy of the opposing forces. You might start innocuous enough, but like I said, you're only thinking a few steps ahead. You aren't seeing where it ends.
>>77817715
Tony is just as emotionally invested as Steve. Bucky killed his father. The whole world will want him dead
>>77817766
Given that Bucky was basically a hollow shell and living weapon under HYDRA, it's not really different from how Wanda and Pietro felt towards Tony's weapons.
>>77817715
What exactly do you do with Bucky? Apparently handing him over to the Feds is an automatic death sentence.
Not because the evidence will show him guilty of murders he was mentally compelled to commit, but rather because apparently Governments are automatically corrupt now.
And because of the latter point, any evidence proving him innocent will automatically be considered fraudulent.
On the flip side you can't just hide him forever. With Stark Enterprises and the U. S. And possibly the UN nowhere is safe for Bucky.
What the fuck are you supposed to do with him /co/?
>>77817766
And such mentality must not stand.
There's a reason cops aren't allowed to take cases when they have an emotional stake in it.
Steve's invested as well, but he's ultimately keeping a lynchmob from killing a man who has just as much a right as anyone to be innocent until proven guilty.
>>77817778
Steve and Bucky will have to go on the run and live off the grid until Bucky can do something to redeem himself in the eyes of the world. It will be just like the Outsiders
>>77817791
All of these governments will be emotionally invested. As the Winter Soldier, Bucky only killed important and influential people in the geopolitical community.
>>77817769
I wonder if they'll draw that parallel with Wanda and Tony. It would be a good point for her to make in defending Bucky.
>>77817778
Hide him until the next big event and in the meantime figure out how to erase his kill switches.
>>77817809
Then Steve will keep fighting until he dies or he forces the government to reconsider. Considering this same government created him, it wouldn't exactly inappropriate.
>>77817753
It's funny how you assume that I'm the one that's gonna strike first because I thought of a really cool idea.
Not you, who think said idea is an infringement on your beliefs.
People like thunderbolt Ross and Obadiah Stane are not good people regardless of factional beliefs. That's a false equivalence to assume that they're representative of an established entrenched belief.
You're also the one who brought up the idea of diametric opposition. That's a worst case scenario which assumes that both sides go into discussions with the intent on actually destroy g the other.
Why would we reach an impasse because of our beliefs? I respect yours going into the discussion. You seem like a good person.
Also, Ross is only one person in government, even the general doesn't make all of the decisions.
Government is comprised of people like you and me, they're not your enemy.
>>77817766
Wanda should have killed Tony according to Tony and T'challas' logic.
>>77817836
I don't believe that our government represents me, or any government actually represents it's people. The people these governments are comprised of have nothing in common with you or I, and only have self interest and the interest of the people who bring in their money. A team like the Avengers being autonomous from the government is what I consider ideal. Governments have proven to abuse their authority time and time again
In this whole conversation, you seem to be thinking of an as of yet unnamed idea rather than talking about the Avengers becoming employees of the government.
>>77817882
You know what man? You're right.
That is all.
>>77817645
>You don't realize that the end point of your thinking is to impose your ideology forcibly on others.
Isn't this what everyone does? Isn't it the entire point of politics? This is what police is for.
>>77817882
This. While, ideally, a government is not one's enemy, the truth of the matter is that it always ends up rotting to its core. A Hydra infiltration is an example of this, and abusing its own power to bring down a suspect, even one who may be a political assassin, without even so much as an announcement to arrest, much less the trial he has a right to, is another one.
Power corrupts, and government is, simply put, powerful by design.
>those deluded fucks thinking they're going to kill Caps and NOT have him as the caps on infinity war
Yeah, sure.
>>77817918
Even then, police can be bought, used, and otherwise made into a tool to be wielded by a power, rather than a neutral defender of the law that power put in place.
>>77817918
It's what Captain America is for. Steve lives a simple, humble life and does not reach beyond it. He is what stands between the forces who wish to impose themselves on others and those who simply want to live and be content.
>>77793571
>misogyny
>>77817943
>implying Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man won't end up teaming up to fight Baron Zemo, who ended up with the killswitches anyway
>>77817897
It's Captain America who's right, as he always is
>>77817957
This line is more illusory than you think.
>>77818073
It's his greatest struggle. That's why his best stories are the ones where he discovers the institutions that he was defending have been corrupted, and he is pushed to the point where he is fighting for the sake of his ideals in their pure forms rather than for the societies formed around them that have failed
This is a surprisingly good thread, for a movie one.
Keep it up /co/.
>>77818128
So...he's another Marvel character stuck repeating the same storyline over and over again?
>>77818425
Hey, it's called capeshit for a reason.
On a positive note, at least Cap typically makes points that can't be stressed enough.
>>77818398
I prefer movie cap to comics cap, honestly. The one thing I like about the MCU is that after Infinity War there won't be much left to tell. James Bond is the closest thing to a /co/ film franchise there is in the sense that the same character gets different, yet inevitably similar treatments for decades on end.
>>77798341
you're so fucking stupid it's not funny
Hypeless-the movie
>>77817185
>oversight
>in mcu
>better than cap
just stop
>>77817446
Black Spiderman's venom sting is such total bullshit, why give him a magical "I WIN" button on top of all his other spider powers?
>>77793915
>Think about how this looks to Stark; when Tony fucked up, he was held responsible
Bullshit. Tony fucked up by building a super powerful killer robot and then his solution was to build a second super powerful robot AI to stop it. He was told by half his team that was a stupid idea, and instead of considering that he might be wrong for trying the exact same thing and expecting a different outcome, his immediate reaction is to get all condescending and act like he can do no wrong. Then after he gets lucky and the second robot isn't hostile, he gets to shake everyone's hand and leave amicably.
Not to mention he's a huge hypocrite for harboring Banner, who is just as unstable and more dangerous than Bucky.
>>77798341
i hope they fix the cgi in that shot, it looks a little floaty
>>77819239
He is weaker then spiderman and lacks the two most important things.
Spider sense and spidermans humor
He needs the sting to even things out.
>>77798341
Tony "played god" by building a genocidal robot that nearly wiped out humanity and then trying to fix it by building a second robot AI.
Cap "played god" by trying to prevent his friend who had been forced to commit crimes against his will from being executed without trial.
But sure, it's the "same fucking thing"
>>77817110
An innocent person is already caught in the crossfire: Bucky.
Cap can either do nothing and allow am innocent man to be killed for sure, or do something, which according to Iron Man (kek) might possibly lead to an innocent person being killed, maybe.
If there's any responsibility to be thrown around due to the collateral damage this conflict causes, that's all on Tony's side for forcing there to be a conflict in the first place.
>>77796312
>Team
Fuck I hate this. Maybe it's because I'm a youngfag and had to hear that stupid shit all through middle school with Team Edward and Team Jacob, but I can only imagine a dumb fucker when I hear people say "I'm Team X or Team Y"
>>77819590
>Team Edward and Team Jacob
>middle school
Youngfag indeed. I was a college freshman when the first movie came out. I agree with the overall sentiment of this post though
>>77797790
Every superhero is friends nigger its fucking superheroes its like saying mickey mouse and goofy were never friends.
>>77819590
Not to mention it's kinda tribalistic for the other heroes to suddenly bow down to Cap or Tony, instead of voluntarily associating with one of them due to individual agreement.
>>77821323
That is basically everyone but Falcon who's seemingly just backing Cap because Cap is his bro. In the trailer he even seems to be trying to talk him into going with the accords.
Wanda hates Tony and the US government. Bucky will probably be executed if he doesn't side with Cap. Hawkeye wants to make sure his family stays out of it. Ant-man wants to keep Pym's suit out of Government hands.
Rhodes is military, he has to follow the law and probably thinks its a good idea. Widow has a grudge against Bucky and wants to remain good in the eyes of the law. Tony is Vision's creator while Cap opposed making him so obviously he'd not join the guy that didn't want him alive. Panther has his own agenda.
>>77817502
What do you mean still?
Bucky wasn't shown to work like that in TWS, they just zapped his brain into confusion and indoctrinated him.
>>77821528
>Tony is Vision's creator while Cap opposed making him so obviously he'd not join the guy that didn't want him alive.
I'm getting really tired of people going "Tony made Vision" or "Vision is based on JARVIS, with his memories" to explain why Vision would be on Tony's side.
You really think the character you saw in AoU, who lifted mjolnir, who only declared allegiance to life itself is that petty to side with daddy?
>>77817943
I am guessing Cap will end in a coma/arrested/presumed dead to the world (while he goes underground)/or just be MIA until Infinity Wars happens.
Bucky may end up with Steve's shield and he will symbollically be Cap and carry on for him, no one but team Cap will like it.
Civil War will somehow end up in a downnote for Cap though, that's the story of his life.
>>77823166
People aren't willing to accept that MCU Vision isn't JARVIS even though it's openly stated he is not.
The people I know who don't read the comics are bummed JARVIS is gone and don't care much for this new Vision guy. So they want him to be the character they've known since IM1.
>>77823166
He would give him the benefit of the doubt. He even did that to Ultron in the final scene, he knew he had to kill him but was sad about it.
>>77823420
I may be missing something here. But how is he not Jarvis 2.0? His whole 'birthing' scene was him experiencing things for the first time. He attacks them because he has never had real sensation before.
>>77823503
>He would give him the benefit of the doubt
About what? What are you talking about?
>He even did that to Ultron in the final scene, he knew he had to kill him but was sad about it.
What does that have to do with the benefit of the doubt? Do you know what that phrase means?
I think Vision will go with the government trying to preserve life at first. He'll see how fucked up the government is and Dr. Manhattan off to mars or the moon or some shit.
>>77819204
That's hat people said about Ant-Man.
>>77823618
>Vision goes to Mars
>Wanda goes to talk to him
>Literally turns air into gold with chaos magic
>>77823420
It's somewhat understandable when you take into account that JARVIS is the only character besides Stark that has appeared in 5 movies total and his 'death' was handled rather poorly in AOU.
A big show was made out of Coulson's death, a minor character no one really cared about. But JARVIS? A character people have gotten attached to and we've been shown several times is Tony's most trusted and reliable friend? His destruction was simply glossed over, Stark just looks mildly annoyed when he tells the team about it. Only for JARVIS to return so he could quickly 'die' again to become another character altogether.
>>77823544
He's not Jarvis 2.0, because part of Ultron was downloaded into him before Tony saved what was left of JARVIS in him. He's a new being.
>>77823399
>Post FYW Thanos tries to tempt Cap with how pointless life is
>Cap just rebukes him like the same scene from Infinity Gauntlet
>>77823544
He's made up of Jarvis, Thor's powers, the mind gem and the robot body Tony built for Ultron with borrowed alien technology.
>>77823670
Why did they destroy all of the things that make MCU Tony iconic to casuals? First the Arc Reactor, now his British butler AI.
>>77817465
>>77817436
Too bad it won't happen.
>>77793943
nice b8 m8
>>77823670
>no one cared about coulson
I guess that's why they not only gave him a show but brought him back from the dead for it too
>jarvis is tony's most trusted and reliable friend
That's definitely Rhodey, the guy that's know him for years, found him in the desert, and keeps him in check all while working together.
You know JARVIS isn't a sentient person right?
He's a complicated Siri, not something with emotions.
And Stark has back ups of other voices/personalities. It's not like he's keeping a bunch of sentient AIs on USBs trapped in oblivion until they're needed.
>>77823544
He's not Jarvis. He's more than Jarvis, with the Mindstone giving him a level of sentience an A.I program, even as complex as Jarvis's cannot compare to (remember the comparison between Jarvis and the Mind Stone's networks).
Jarvis was smart, and capable of feelings, but when being ordered to attack all Extremis signatures he was too dumb to recognize Pepper a person he interacts with on a daily basis and figure out that Tony most likely wouldn't want her fragged.
That being said Jarvis is clearly in there somewhere, based on his voice and snark at Tony once or twice.
>>77823670
>JARVIS
>A character people have gotten attached to and we've been shown several times is Tony's most trusted and reliable friend
Not Rhodey?
>>77823773
>Thor's powers
no
>the robot body Tony built
no
>robot [from] borrowed alien technology
no
Why do people answer questions when they don't know what they're talking about?
>>77823940
but how is that not Jarvis 2.0? It's a very increased network brain but it's still the same basis. I guess I could explain it as evolution, like a Human from Lucy, but they never really explored that in the movie. And from comics the Decendents are the best example of this idea.
>>77823959
>>77823670
JARVIS never betrays Tony or tries to steal his suits. But that's because he's not able to, he's a fucking program who has no choice but to do what 'Sir' bids him. He's not a real person, or even an AI. Vision is an AI with a mind of his own.
However, Tony treats Jarvis and the robots as real people, not disposable tech in the solo IM movies.
>Don't leave me buddy.
>Talks to them like they're sentient.
>Makes the effort to retrieve Dum-E from Malibu rubble to rebuild.
>>77824185
A defining characteristic in Jarvis's personality is that that he cannot disobey an order from Tony and he has no mind of his own - any snarkiness and humor has been programmed into him. JARVIS literally means: Just A Very Intelligent System. Obeying Tony, keeping Tony safe and entertained is everything he is.
Vision is his own person, he can decide for himself whether or not to help Tony.
>>77824742
Well that's actually not entirely true.
Jarvis actually takes orders from the other Avengers, or at least Cap.
Also Jarvis escapes onto the net keeps Ultron from the nuclear codes and reforms himself and goes back to the Avengers tower all on his own.
He also actively wanted to be made into the Vision.
