>comparing artistic work with oild refinery labor
That's kinda silly.
490 for manual labor? that seems a little low.
And yet we still treat our staff better than Japan does.
>>64378331
It's around 1500-2000 a month. Not bad actually.
>>64378333
the japanese get to animate things that are visually appealing
>>64378391
That's fucking awful.
Out in the Alberta oil sands, starting wage is close to 500 A DAY.
You get paid a shitload for jobs like that, because it's dangerous as fuck, and the work environment is monumentally shitty
>>64378391
24k a year is a livable wage for you? are you a 15 year old working at a grocery store?
>>64378535
>24k a year is a livable wage for you
it's not for you? Fucking millenials.
>>64378511
You pay 10,000 a month for unskilled labor? That's 120,000 a year for manual unskilled labor. I call bullshit.
Most animators are still rightly pissed about their attempt to unionize getting squashed.
This is what happens when you have a occupation that does not have it's own union to support it and jobs are easily outsourced to countries like Korea, Taiwan and Canada
>>64378511
Working in the oil sands in Alberta is awful though. You work like a nig for 4-6 weeks onsite to have 1 week offsite.
Most people are rednecks, most of those get hooked on drugs, etc.
>>64378535
That's what almost every entry level job pays. You'd know that if you actually ever had a job.
>>64378576
the base salary is low, but they get tons of bonus to work in dangerous place, usually in missions for month out of their home and stuff. Not everybody is willing to work like that so they have to motivate with a good pay or else they get nobody at all to do the job.
Meanwhile titmouse employees get fucked in the ass because art schools put thousands like him in the job market every year.
>>64378576
No it's true, I have a friend who gets paid 20 bucks an hour to sit in his truck all day and make sure that pipes don't leak. It's not 500 bucks a day but oil field workers get paid pretty well. The only problem is it leads to stupid boom towns where a shitty shack is 100k.
>>64378535
Where the hell do you live that grocery store teenagers get $14 an hour
More like butthurt artists thinking their hobby deserves grade A salaries getting BTFO
A guy doing manual labor on an oil rig gets paid more than some slob in an air conditioned office drawing funneh boox? No fuckin shit.
>>64378594
>>64378583
more of them will start moving to europe for the higher wages
this is another reason why Hollywood is going to die
>>64378535
I get around 7k a year being a full time university teacher with a PhD.
THIRD WORLD YAY
>>64378631
Probably Australia
>>64378333
That's not exactly hard.
>>64378679
wat,
I make 7k a year as a graduate student teacher.
>>64378535
>not eating rice and beans forever.
>>64378640
>their hobby
working to create 100% of highly profitable content for some of the richest companies in the world is a "hobby" ?
>>64378679
What country? And can you get the same job with a Masters?
Oil rich places are a special kind of world. So much fucking money just flying around that even the giant companies don't know what to do with it all. Just about every single job related to it pay ludicrously well.
I'm no even involved in the oil part of Alberta, but we still see the byproduct benefits where I work, like 50$ more a day, and shit cheap alcohol.
Also disgusting rig pigs everyone. Seriously, the only thing stopping most people from working on the rigs is that 99% of your co-workers are muscle bound coke heads who belong in prison, but ended up on a rig instead. Hope you don't show a moment of weakness, or they'll kick the shit out of you.
>>64378645
>animators
>work in europe
France is the only place to potentially hire them and they already produce way better animators to do the job to begin with. Also they'd still have to adapt with French way of work which is usually way different than the USA's.
>>64378645
Even European studios outsource the grunt work to Korea.
>>64378576
Well, they have to pay you to live, and move to, bum fuck nowhere. The Dakotas are experiencing a population boom because of the new oil out there, but there are simply not enough people to keep the wages low. Restaurants and retail stores have to pay their employees like $18 an hour in order for them not to simply leave ad go work in the really fast expanding oil drilling process.
Why doesn't everybody quickly move out there for the jobs then? Because its fucking miserable cold work in the middle of nowhere. Not many people want to do it.
>>64378640
Titmouse is an animation studio.
At any rate, you can't compare an oil rig worker who needs things like hazard pay due to location alone. It's like apples and baseballs.
>Still believing that American animation is still a thing
>>64378288
>bitching about making $400 a week
who are these faggots?
>>64378721
Putinland
And you can get an only slightly less paying job with a bachelor's since no sane graduate wants this shit.
>>64378773
The industry missed the opportunity of the internet and is way too close to TV channels entirely at the moment for sure.
>>64378746
Ireland is expanding it's animation industry every year too
>>64378773
>liking soulless, talentless, flash shit from CANADA
>>64378798
People with high degree of specialisation that didn't get lucky to have a strong union to defend their rights?
TIL /co/ doesn't make very much money
>>64378798
>who are these faggots?
people who make their employers millions a year while barely getting enough money to live in exchange for highly-skilled college-educated work
How many Western Animation Studios are left?
I feel like I know way more of the Jap studios.
>>64378807
Ohh. well I could just get a 1,000 to 3,000 a month job teaching English in Moscow.
When you say titmouse to me, I just think of Anna Kendrick. You know, I think she got a breast reduction or something, so is no longer "titmouse".
>bitching about making a perfectly livable wage
>implying breaking down your body in sweltering heat isn't more deserving of compensation than sitting in air conditioning and dicking around on the computer.
>implying wasting money on an art degree makes you entitled to a high paying job.
>>64378391
That's fucking horrible. He works on a fucking oil refinery and makes dirt money.
>>64378576
No, it sounds about right. It's dangerous as fuck.
>>64378966
>bitching about making a perfectly livable wage
The guy who told him that his 400 were acceptable probably makes 3 or 4 time this + yearly bonus + tons of shit paid by the company while having an actually lesser diploma.
>>64378966
>thinking it's an either/or situation
>thinking that's a livable wage for a skilled trade
Hello 1%er apologist, I know you want a world where it''s just the richest people and the working poor with nothing in-between.
>>64379006
>while having an actually lesser diploma
explain
>>64378966
>livable wage
that's piss money in the first world
you couldn't survive on that in most of europe
>>64378866
Moscow is not really Russia. You get paid 4x more, the rent is 10x more, and everyone outside the city hates you.
>>64379006
I make $310 a week and manage just fine. No, it doesn't afford a life of luxury, but it's quite livable if you're not retarded.
>>64378595
>most of those get hooked on drugs, etc.
Depending on which drugs, that's not exactly exclusive to oil workers...
>>64379095
Take into account things like cost of living near an animation studio and student debt accumulated from acquiring that art degree and it's unsustainable.
>>64379049
>you couldn't survive on that in most of europe
I disagree, I live in Paris on my own, I need 500 euros per month for my flat, then another 500 for the life expense and food. I'm not rich but I'm not begging in the street either (actually beggars in Paris do more money than me, since they don't pay taxes on that shit)
>>64379026
Marketing is a 2 years posr school diploma around there, animation will take you 3-4 years.
>>64378640
>A guy doing manual labor on an oil rig gets paid more than some slob in an air conditioned office drawing funneh boox? No fuckin shit.
And celebrities/music artists get paid more than both combine for just shucking and jiving. And they go home to their mansions and no one cares.
>>64379130
Isn't college tuition in France free? Not in the US it isn't.
>>64379119
>like cost of living near an animation studio
and considering this particular one is in NEW YORK CITY
>>64379119
Didn't these people research the average wage of their chosen profession before they invested all that money in a degree?
>>64379155
>Isn't college tuition in France free
depends of what you do, but even the private schools are cheaper than the american ones, and you can get some help money for good grades and coming from a small poor familly usually.
Taht said the problem there imo is that people should just make "enough to live", work is supposed to be "the more efforts the better pay" and it's not true for many jobs these days. An animator can be pissed that hist 7/7 10/24 efforts pay less than his superior's 4/7 7/24 job.
>>64379192
right, so nobody should get into animation
it's sad how they fucked the whole thing up
>>64379192
If everyone does that, it leads to no animators at all and an overabundance of people in higher-paying professions e.g. right now there is an overabundance of people with law degrees who are pretty much fucked financially.
>>64379192
This doesn't work those are long studies, by the time you chose it and the time you need to get a job the situation might evolve a lot. I know, I got screwed by doing just that and going for computer engineer. Now the job that used to pay well is outsourced in India.
>>64379072
Well I'm more interested in teaching in United Arab Emirates anyways with their $3,500 tax free a month pay plus free housing.
>>64379263
>Now the job that used to pay well is outsourced in India.
And yet here in Chicago there is a drought of CEs and they make top dollar and are constantly being recruited.
>>64378288
You should accept shit pay or your jobe will be outsourced is NEVER a valid argument.
I do not work in the animation, , but no matter what, I will never accept that I should accpet bad pay just so my boss can get rich without taking the trouble of dealing with oversea jobs.
>>64379312
>Chicago
No thanks. I'll take India.
>>64379192
Are you suggesting people shouldn't get into animation because the wages are bad?
How does it make any sense that the solution isn't to just ask for better wages and worker rights instead of outsourcing to people living on pennies?
>>64379340
>You should accept shit pay or your jobe will be outsourced is NEVER a valid argument.
Of course it is you retard
If you are having work done on your house to you hire the guy that gave you the highest estimate?
>>64379371
You would probably be safer honestly
>>64378679
>>64378807
wtf. im from an asian third world shithole, and that is just barely more than how much i used to get as an ESL tutor.
im never listening to /pol/ again for overseas job opportunities.
>>64379452
Which shit hole do you teach in? I've been in a couple as an ESL.
>>64379263
Is there any stable job other than manual labor?
>>64379452
You should never listen to /pol/ again for anything on any topic.
>>64379407
>comparing a presumably middle class 4chan user to a multi million dollar corporation
>implying outsourcing to lower quality workers for pennies is automatically better than paying more for quality work
>>64379192
Imma teacher, and I started at 60k a year.
Some of my coworkers are making 100k.
>>64379407
outsourcing is a really bad practice for your local economy, you spend wealth abroad that will not come back in your local economy in any way. It's not good on the long run. Just hink about it, look at how rich is China at the moment, it's only because foreign country pour their money there instead of in their own economy. They are bleeding themself out for something that profits so few people in their country it's ridiculous.
>>64379403
>Are you suggesting people shouldn't get into animation because the wages are bad?
People shouldn't get into animation knowing the wages are bad, and then bitch about the wages being bad.
>How does it make any sense that the solution isn't to just ask for better wages and worker rights
Because this is the United Corporations of America. You may as well ask the desert sky to rain.
>instead of outsourcing to people living on pennies?
Those people need those pennies more than you. You have many more options for making money than them. Check your fucking privilege.
>>64379490
civil servant I guess. But good luck living inside the nuthouse yourself for years without becoming nut yourself.
I work at a grocery store and make around 21k a year gross.
Maybe I should get into doing shitty animation for a slight pay raise.
Or maybe I should go back to school and get a degree. Then I'll have thousands of dollars of debt AND a shitty job at a grocery store, just like several of my co-workers!
>>64379665
>Maybe I should get into doing shitty animation for a slight pay raise.
what skills do you need at your current job? a pair of legs?
>>64379608
>Check your fucking privilege
I had a feeling you were a cunt and this just proves it.
>>64379608
>people should just accept things the way they are and not challenge unfair or immoral business practices
>it's better to mindlessly funnel money into other countries for little to no returns
>>64378288
This is basically why television and movies are being bled dry by the internet and video games.
>>64379608
>Check your fucking privilege.
>>64379776
fuck off occutard
>>64378966
Fuck you, no seriously fuck you and every ignorant fuck like you, do the world a favor and fucking kill your self you fucking faggot you are undeserving of the same air I breathe.
>>64379793
>no really please just blindly accept everything the way it is it really is better
>corporations are your friend
>>64379608
fuck you too buddy i need the money more than some brown uneducated mongrel in a 3rd world hell hole
>>64378391
For a job working on an oil rig, it's fucking atrocious.
>>64379436
Provided he doesn't have a cunt, or at least act like one.
>>64379665
Yes! Being uneducated is the smart choice in life!
>>64378535
Not everybody lives in New York City, you know.
>>64379937
It is when the rich have decided to grind the middle class into dust.
>>64379737
Same as any other retail/service/grocery job. Nothing special. But people still manage to be too shitty to do this job.
I don't have high ambitions. I'd be perfectly fine with, say, a factory job that gives me a living wage, but there aren't any now that manufacturing everything in China is the norm.
>>64379937
Considering that literally 75% of college graduates don't enter a job where their degree is relevant, it kinda looks that way.
>>64378327
That just means appreciate what you have
>>64379966
>>64379959
Keeping people stupid is the best way to keep them poor.
>>64379959
Dude, when media starting fagging on about needing a college education, even if its' for bullshit degrees, to even exist in the middle class you should have known something was up.
The middle class now is the lower upper wealthy class from generations ago.
>>64378391
Goddamit, as a graphic designer I can expect making that number... but in PLN. So about a third of that in USD.
You Americunts have no right to bitch about stuff being expensive.
>>64379996
Saddling them with a shitload of debt by forcing them through a broken educational system that more resembles a Ponzi scheme than an actual method of giving people job skills is a great way to do it too.
>>64380032
Actually, we do
>>64378828
>TIL
>>64380032
We do when our cost of living is proportionally higher.
>>64378444
Japanese don't animate shit. They ship it all to other countries too. How else do you think they air a show once a week for ten years straight?
>>64380062
>>64380069
You earn three times as much while you pay half what we do for gasoline.
Poland has a pretty high living cost for it's average wages. We get EU prices but not EU salaries.
>>64379996
That used to be the case. Now we just make it so the education they get saddles them with more debt than they'll ever get rid of, and make sure that the education is required not to have a good chance of a livable wage, but any.
>>64379996
Corporations don't need people to be stupid to keep them poor anymore. Educating them is much more profitable.
>>64378333
>And yet we still treat our staff better than Japan does.
We do not.
The average budget of a Japanese production may be significantly lower, but the per-person pay is better than US because that budget is spread out more evenly. In other words, in Japan the guy on the top isn't paid obscenely more than the guy at the bottom, but that is the case in the US. The numbers become even worse when you include all staff involved in the project, including the overseas studios to which Americans outsource. You can't boast that we have fair pay, when the guys actually doing the animation make less than US minimum wage.
Taking a grander view, US CEOs across all industries make 300~500 times what the average worker makes, while the typical Japanese CEO makes 50~60 times the average salary.
>>64380089
I was referring the bill of rights
>>64380078
Soon all animation work will be outsourced to one man in a hut in India.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaZ57Bn4pQ
If working in America is so shit why don't you just move to another country. I left America for Japan a long time ago and now I live a nice life with plenty of spare money for soaplands. Living the dream.
>>64380124
sources?
>>64380089
You also have universal healthcare and free higher education. We get fucked in other ways. Just because our bloated, greedy nation gets a volume discount on oil doesn't mean individuals have it easy here.
>>64380144
And all back breaking manual labor to one single Australian guy.
>>64378763
And the people I've met who did that work are some of the toughest motherfuckers I've ever met.
>>64380170
Personal experience for the animation studio salaries, but for CEO pay here's a somewhat outdated article that sites BusinessWeek as its source:
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/07/08/106536/japanese-ceo-american-sixth/
>>64379828
How about you state some reasons for them to kill themselves rather than sounding like a self important bitch. You just blow in from tumblr or something?
>>64379937
>Yes! Being uneducated is the smart choice in life!
OK faggot, my friends who went to college are all working shit jobs and up to their eyeballs in debt
I started working right after highschool and have 0 debt a house and plenty of toys and make considerably more than any of my friends who went to college so yeah go get your degree in women's study then bitch about how unfair the world is when you can't move out of your parents house.
>>64378798
That is only 19,200 dollars a year. Keep in mind these people have student laons, car payments, house payments/rent, food expenses. ect ect. Yes this sounds like a lot of money when you are living with your parents making minimum wage. But in the real world you need to be making 30K a year to be considered middle class.
>>64378768
Except one is a highly specialized field where you have to have talent to work in IE Animation. While the other is unskilled labor. Yes There is hazard pay involved but any able bodied person can be a laborer while not everybody can pick up a pen and start animating on a professional level.
>>64380192
Thanks Hermes.
>>64380355
You think that working on an oil rig is something that just anybody can do? Yeah fucking right. It takes a special kind of masochist to be able to handle that.
>>64380297
Middle class is a lot higher than 30k. That's working class.
>>64380355
>not everybody can pick up a pen and start animating on a professional level.
More people have the talent than their are jobs requiring it hence the shit wages, hell go to any starbucks on a weekday afternoon and you are sure to meet a half a dozen aspiring animators.
>>64380355
The job you can easily die doing not surprisingly pays more than drawing pictures
>>64379937
>getting a degree is the only way to be educated
>>64380297
>400x52=19200
wat
>>64378288
That's how much I get paid working as a grocery store cashier.
>>64380407
Depends on where you live really parts of the country you could live like a king on 30K
>>64380355
>any able bodied person can be a laborer
Not really. It takes a fair bit of mental fortitude to put up with the drudgeries of physical labor day in and day out.
>>64380469
In southern California you can barely scrape by on that.
Fuck, I'm making 9k less and I have to live at home right now. I need to move out, but I don't want to live at the corner of Stab Whitey and Rob Whitey so I'm kinda stuck right now.
>>64380469
A single person, sure, but one can't support a 50s-style single-income household with that.
>>64378640
Animation is a lot more work than you think it is ass hat. Also the amount hours they put into creating content forces them to practically live at the studios.
>>64380144
First thing I thought of. Thanks for the link.
>>64380558
And oil rig workers still deserve to be paid more because they provide a vital service to every industry in the world while putting their own health at great personal risk while enduring all the mental stresses of working such a job as well.
It's really retarded that our country's economy is mostly service jobs and moving money around.
>>64379937
University education meant something 20-30 years ago. There were fewer people attending, even fewer graduating, and having a degree meant you were above the average person.
People who grew up with this being the case understandably assumed this was due to the education and not the rarity of degrees, and fed their kids the narrative that "if you don't go to college you'll wind up flipping burgers," simultaneously overvaluing education and undervaluing work experience.
These days having a degree means jack and shit because the market is flooded with them. Worse, due to well-meaning initiatives to help people afford college, tuition and book prices have skyrocketed.
The end result is a generation of kids with a worthless education and thousands in debt entering a job market with no room for them. This is made even worse by the recession, which robbed boomers of their retirement funds and put them back into the workforce.
>>64380448
Federal income tax, anon. You never get your entire paycheck.
>>64380536
If that's your goal in life, you'd work your ass off to get a position to support that lifestyle. Fuckloads of time in college and everything.
I on the other hand never want kids and frankly dont care if I ever get married. So enough to live in a place of my own is good enough for me.
>>64380638
Then 18700 would be a better estimate, considering SS and Medicaid
So yeah... Imma be a teacher, I think...born in the wrong time for cartoons and shit. I have to do SOMETHING with my art skills cause they're the only skills I have.
This thread gives me anxiety for the future, like no joke. This fucking sucks.
>>64380674
If you can, get a cheap house or condo on homepath and start building equit. That will allow you to refinance or take out a HELOC for a significant sum to make real investments and earn real money.
Living on a wage/salary alone isn't a good idea. Building personal wealth is.
>>64380709
I understand that feeling. Anytime someone brings up the job market it freaks me out. This is in part why I'm getting a degree in accounting. The work sucks but it will hopefully pay well enough.
People have always recommended I get a job related to a hobby I enjoy, but that just seems like career suicide.
>make 2k a month
>have a decent apartment
>bought a brand new car (Genesis) in April
>manage to go on nice trips when I want
>weekly expenses are never a problem
How is this a problem? Are you people unable to handle money?
>>64380777
This. I'm getting an accounting degree too. The work is gunna be boring, but a job isn't meant to be fun. I'll have fun in my free time.
>>64380783
>renting
>thinks he can talk about finances
You're fucked if absolutely anything goes wrong.
>>64379828
so mad.
>>64380783
The serious answer is it depends where you live.
In my small podunk town, 40K~ is walking around money. Enough to settle in one of the suburbs around here.
In New York, you'd get laughed at by the bums flaunting that around.
>>64380879
How? I have money saved in the bank for emergencies and put money away every month.
>>64380918
For sure.
>>64380595
Supply and demand my friend.
You can Corn Shuck 100 of those Oil rig workers for every one Sound engineer.
Hell, look at a fucking Oil rig for example, the Engineers and technicians get far more pay than the fucking retard muscle. At one point I was helping build and design autoparts, I could have bought a fuck working as a mechanic with the wage I got.
>>64380879
Can we just assume that he/she is lying?
>>64379306
>tax free
Well anon is in for a surprise...
>>64380709
>>64380777
I'm in the same boat.
I love drawing and want to teach drawing, but I'm also really good at crunching numbers which people say will get me money. And if that money gives me enough time and funding to draw off hours then I think I'm good.
>>64380962
But I'm not.
>>64380975
It will not.
>>64380945
The money you are saving is insignificant and you aren't building any kind of safety net like the kind equity would provide. One bad accident and you'll be unable to make your wage and the associated health bills will devour your savings.
If you have enough in savings for a down payment on a condo (~20k with the right loan type) start looking.
>>64380975
One word.
Architect.
You want to make mad shit for doing drawings you like, Build shit for people.
>>64378828
TIL /co/ is western /a/ and wants American animation to die.
Why don't you support American animation, /co/?
>>64380777
>>64380852
We're in it for the long haul, anons.
I don't even want to work for one of the big firms. Hell, I'll still be the first in my family to have a white-collar job.
I'm planning to save up money and move back to my hometown down the line, where the cost of living is ridiculously low.
>>64381008
Yeah I'm too poor for that. If a big enough accident happens, then sure, I'd have trouble covering my expenses. Thankfully my family watches out for me. I've never had to ask them for money, though.
To this guy and illustration anons:
They're a reason the phrase "starving artist" exists.
Financial security or a career in art; pick one.
>>64381015
Architects have the highest unemployment rate of pretty much anything ever.
You want to build shit you be a civil engineer.
>>64380964
Why would the UAE lie? They are know worldwide for their honesty. Is Dubai not the most trustworthy city in the world?
>>64380536
again it depends in East Bumblefuck Wisconsin you can easily do it on 30K, In Chicago no you'd starve to death.
>>64381093
Building shit is for poor people, he wants to be DESIGNING SHIT.
I used to design Cars, Never had a single one built, still got paid a ton.
>>64380997
>>64381093
I shoulda listened to my old man and joined the Navy, but I hate the smell of sea water.
And now I'm stuck...
>>64381062
You're lucky your family has your back, a lot of people in your position wind up destitute because of something as simple as a car crash.
It's good that you have a handle on your budget, though. That really is more than most can say.
OP here
we're all gonna make it brahs
>MFW seeing a guy on /v/ who owns a few hotdog standsand makes $5k a week
>>64381096
us citizens pay us taxes anywhere in the world.
>>64381186
That's likely revenue, anon, not profit.
>>64381186
Yeah you learn to run stands right and you can make a fuckton of money selling hotdogs
>>64381178
Except for those of us who don't.
>>64381186
Yeah. If you can get into a franchise you make even more.
>>64380709
>going into education
Enjoy no job
>>64379937
Going to college for the sake of being educated is one of the worst decisions a young person can make. I didn't want to do it but my parents did and everyone around me was doing it and so because I was/am a spineless faggot and didn't listen to my gut I'm stuck in Uni getting a shit degree that will saddle me with debt that I can hardly pay off. I have some luck because I go to a relatively cheap state school and haven't taken out as much in loans as some of my peers who go to more expensive schools but it still sucks.
If you finish high school and you're not entirely sure of what you want to do with yourself I don't think college is a good way to find out. For some people it does work out but I think more often than not its not worth it.
The internet is the place to be really. We live in a time where the internet is accessible to most people and marketing is right at your fingertips. Build a website, have a portfolio, show off what you can do, self advertise and gain a following. Build a name for yourself so companies can find you or make a living off selling merch if you create content. Once you've established yourself as someone people are going to start wanting YOU not just for your work but even you name.
I graduated college and am thinking of going to cons to sell work. Made 500 dollars from a 3 day con practically sitting at a table dicking around with friends for 12 hours, but it was fun as fuck. Trip cost about 300 dollars so I turned a profit. I know someone who makes thousands at just for going to cons.
>>64380184
>You also have universal healthcare and free higher education.
Both untrue and oversold.
>>64380602
This. I see so many people going to college essentially because everyone else is. They find the degree that is superficially interesting to them while simultaneously not being difficult and they go for it. The problem is virtually every high school student with an IQ over 95 does the same thing and the market is flooded and they eventually end up getting a job that isn't even related to their degree, something they could've probably done before except now they have a shit load of debt. STEM degrees can shave the fat because of their difficulty but the humanities and social sciences don't so typically those are the least employable degrees.
>>64381905
>Didn't go to college.
>Worked landscaping for a few years.
>Lived with parents, didn't party, didn't booze, didn't car.
>Paid for college as I went.
>Graduated with technical degree and a big network of friends.
>Got a 40k per year job one year after college.
>No debt, no nothing.
People who take out student loans are fucking stupid.
>>64379022
Unfortunately he's going to get his way. Modern technology is already becoming able to perform far more than the menial tasks it was once used for. Within the century I believe we will see machines which are able to perform 90% of the jobs humans currently perform, including self-maintenance and, coincidentally, cartoon animation.
This should be a moment to celebrate. Our species should finally be free of the burden of perpetual work. However, the so-called 1% will be the ones who own the machines and the factories, and I will be extremely surprised if they're willing to share what they produce.
I only hope the public realise this before the military becomes largely automated, because otherwise we're fucked.
>>64381008
>and the associated health bills will devour your savings
America, land of the free.
I can't believe animators are dumb enough to not realize how much works like mining, oil refinery labor or even trash collecting actually pay. It's shit nobody wants to do.
>>64382075
Well aren't you special.
>>64379608
>suggesting paying foreigners shitty wages far below the value of their work is actually somehow a favor to them
Here's a novel idea! How about we demand decent pay for everybody, and not just depending on whether it directly benefits us or not?
As a guy who use to try getting into animation, it's not as hard as it use to be. Everything 2D is still done on computers. The amount of effort is a lot less than it was in say the 90s.
Also, oil refinery work is a lot more threatening, hence higher pay.
>>64382075
How cheap was your college?
>>64382075
I put my money on red and won $10,000 yesterday. Those fuckers who waste their money betting on black are retarded.
>>64382075
>full scholarship
People who pay for university are fucking stupid.
>>64382166
That would require a majority of people to be compassionate and benevolent. Generally people lack compassion for anyone they don't personally know.
>>64382179
>Baww, I have to get $500,000 in student loan debt or else I'll never get a job!
You make me laugh.
>>64382175
~$600 per course. Took me longer than other people to get through it but I paid in money, not promises.
>>64382214
Yes, I agree. I almost qualified for a full ride scholarship but I didn't have the foreign language requirements.
It was stupid of me to not just take foreign language electives in high school like everyone else.
>>64382234
I've paid my student debt off too, although that may be less of an achievement since I'm not from The Land Of The Free.
>>64382166
>whether it directly benefits us or not?
You mean directly benefits the guys at the top
Seriously half this thread is arguing over whether a company should get millions or multi millions in profit.
>>64382123
Yes, I am. Mr. Rogers says so.
>>64380124
This. American executives have managed to fool us into thinking our work is valueless and profits are low. Wages have stagnated for years and years while the price of everything else goes up with inflation. You know what that means? In real value, labor is getting cheaper and cheaper. We're paid way less for the same work while CEOs pocket the money. Does a few extra million do some asshole any extra good? No. Does it make living harder for the rest of us? Yes. Is it damaging to equality and human rights everywhere when we export this model of work and pay to other countries? You can bet it is.
>>64378288
>payed
Shouldn't it be paid? I studied English for some time now, I thought Payed was an old form, and currently the verb refers to an action involving placing planks on a ship.
>>64380355
>any idiot can work on an oil rig!
>It's not hard or dangerous or likely to kill or injure you!
top kek
>>64382368
He's payed for oil, not for spelling.
>>64378391
$24,000 a year is fucking peanuts. Shit, the only people I know that make less are service industry wage slaves and teachers.
>>64381079
>crappy pay is justified because trope
>>64382075
Personally I think that's the way to do it unless you're an excellent student in high school who is relatively certain of what he/she wants to do. Even if you end up changing majors if you're good enough to get the grades and connections it could work out well
>>64378604
There are plenty of entry level jobs that pay $50k, $100k, more. You'd know this if you weren't a troll.
>>64382368
He works on an oil rig, it's a given that he doesn't have a perfect or even relatively good grasp on his own native language.
>>64382228
That would require EXECUTIVES AND LAWMAKERS being compassionate and benevolent. Seriously, why aren't you guys on the street over this? Big businesses are gearing to fuck us in the ass harder and harder.
>>64382075
How in the fuck did you pay for college?
>>64382300
This is true my friend.
>>64382438
How high are you?
Still thinking about becoming underwater welder
>>64382089
The common person already has enough information and access too technology and other knowledge to live like royalty with a decent small job.
If healthy living and living within one's means was pushed more then more then people would be far better off.
>>64382501
One class at a time?
Seriously, why do you attribute this mystique to paying for college? You think you have to go all at once? You think you have to live on campus or something?
I mean really, do you honestly believe it's impossible to finance something without going into debt.
>>64382089
uh... plenty of this technology already exists, anon. A lot of the work being done by workers in China could be done by machines. It isn't because sometimes paying a human a shit wage is cheaper, and other times China actually pursues policies that employ people because they are actually sort of interested in creating a Chinese middle class.
>>64382228
Actually no, that would require people not being so stupid that they can be suckered with the every popular "you're better then they are so just sit back and watch as we fuck them and do you the honor of giving you lube for when we start fucking you"
>living in a country where you have to pay for college
>>64382564
>one class at a time
>for like 120 credits
Are you 70 anon
>>64382564
We were discussing the typical 4 years of college thing.
Not the common sense and old way of doing it a few courses at a time and testing out of courses after self study way.
>>64382399
>teacher make less than 24k
Lol they got to you with their propaganda
http://www.fcps.edu/hr/salary/pdf/fy15/FY15218dayTeacher.pdf
>>64382607
>living in a country where you have to pay shitmillion dollars for college
seriously, what the fuck guys
>>64382440
Ah, I have seen this mistake quite frequently now, I have started to second guess myself.
>>64382546
>living within one's mean
Seriously why would this help anybody? Do you think that people are poor because they are bad with money? How would ANYBODY have any social mobility if they had to pay for college and other stuff out of pocket? Some credit allows people to live decently.
>>64382620
I spent two more years in college than most people. So what?
I paid one class at a time, not that I went one class at a time. Averaged two or three courses per semester, hence the need to live at home, carpool, work landscaping, not eating out, that kind of stuff.
Yes it sucked. But being in the same situation with $80k of money that isn't yours riding on your back sucks even more.
>>64382676
>Seriously why would this help anybody?
So how deep in debt are you, anon.
>>64382546
>If healthy living and living within one's means was pushed more then more then people would be far better off.
This is a really good point. When people start to make more money what to they tend to do? Buy buy better stuff like a better house or a better car instead of saving up to be able to retire younger or just to have a rainy day fund.
An American making twice as much as his peer is likely to live in a house that's twice as expensive instead of living in a similarly priced home and paying it off in twice the time.
>>64382677
>$80k of money that isn't yours
Fuck, And I thought my $60k debt was bad, and I at least got a masters out of it.
>>64382701
Actually, no. Not at all. People pay back their debt anon.
>>64382723
So it sounds more like people need to be taught to live within their means while simultaneously raising wages to something that is more respectable.
>>64382676
>Do you think that people are poor because they are bad with money?
Not that anon, but I can collaborate and say yes. From personal experience, and statistics, this is an empirical fact now. Not the entire picture, but it is part of it.
This is why poor people who win the lottery end up where they started. They blow the money off, and return back to poorsville.
>>64382723
>Buy buy better stuff
like an education, decent living conditions, healthy food and clean clothes, things that enable them to live reasonable lives. Then they can find better work because they're taking care of themselves and their family and they pay back the money. Debt is not particularly harmful unless you have way too much of it.
Muh austerity
>>64382761
>those poor people should just be better with their money! That would fix everything!
No, I'm pretty sure we should just demand decent wages.
>>64382752
Crap. I'm going to be $40k in debt for just a bachelors. Granted about $10k of that is from debt from a previous ultra-expensive school I went to before I fucked up and realized how bad of an idea that was.
>>64382790
Yeah, as much as poor wages fuck people over let's not pretend a lot of the poorest people could manage wealth if they ever got some. To be fair, this is criticizing people for being poor with something they have very little of. But a part of this might just be the way we promote how everyone with money needs to live in a mansion with a Jacuzzi in every room.
>>64382790
It's a very small part of it, and honestly the cause and effect is usually the other way around. People who have lived their entire lives being poor are obviously not going to be equipped to handle actually having money.
>>64382754
By living in their means.
People use all sorts of horribly irresponsible methods to pay back their debt. I know people who shuffle debt between credit cards, paying off one with money from another and justifying it by saying the interest isn't that bad.
Credit is a privilege and too many people go nuts with it.
I'm poor enough and did well enough on the ACT to have my college paid for me. I have no fucking clue what I should study and expect to end up stuck working stock at a grocery store once I finish getting all my general studies credits.
>>64382790
>statistics
Uh huh
Show me some
>>64382872
Also the whole system is set up to fuck over people who don't have money. If you don't have money, most of the options you have to manage your life will only put you in further debt, but are inescapable due to the short-term relief.
>>64382845
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that workers do need to be paid something beyond the piss-poor wages we offer right now, but at the same time we as a culture should value the ability to manage money as well. Basically to avoid the problem that one person brought up about people who win the lottery and spend beyond their means.
>>64382845
>decent wages
If you had some sort of reasonable social safety net you wouldn't need a $40 minimum wage.
It's just more garbage spouted out of people who don't understand the problem.
>>64382873
A few people do that. Not enough to say to everybody who would never in a million years be able to pay for safe healthy living conditions and the means to move up to better jobs, "fuck you!"
>>64382849
Let's crucify the rich for their shitty stupid excessive spending habits before we crucify the poor for buying a working refrigerator on credit.
>>64382928
>If you don't have money, most of the options you have to manage your life will only put you in further debt
Such as?
>>64378288
I can't tell who's on whose side in that little exchange. Who am I supposed to be cheering for, and who do I copypaste "BTFO!!!@" about?
>>64378444
>anime
>visually appealing
>>64382958
>Let's crucify the rich for their shitty stupid excessive spending habits before we crucify the poor for buying a working refrigerator on credit.
Fair enough.
>>64382958
>A few people do that
More than a few. Stop pretending there are angels here.
And I'm not saying that, get fucked.
>>64382930
Well, I can't disagree with you there. It's an important thing, but not a super important thing or something that would solve a crucial problem.
But since we love bringing up the lottery over and over, you know it isn't meant to create millionares right? Part of the reason states do it is because it stimulates the local economy. Even if that asshole has blown all the money, a bunch of people got paid because of it. That wealth didn't stay in one place, and it wouldn't be useful if it did.
>>64382958
>Let's crucify the rich for their shitty stupid excessive spending habits
Like what?
>>64382959
Payday loans are a very profitable business, and it's not just idiots who use them. Almost any cheap version of a product is guaranteed to be less durable and less healthy, regardless of whether it actually cost more to manufacture.
>>64382761
Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with those who think wages should increase. Regardless of what people do with their money they should be paid for their work with fair wages.
>>64382826
Yeah I'm not saying people should avoid debt and credit like the plague or anything, just that I think people should be a little less materialistic and have a little more foresight with their finances. There's nothing wrong with upgrading or getting spending your money on luxury items if you can afford it, I just think some people prioritize the right things. I myself aspire to live in a house with a fairly large yard, something like 2-5 acres, so I'm not above wanting nice things but I think at the same time I should be realistic and prioritize financial security over luxury.
>>64382849
>But a part of this might just be the way we promote how everyone with money needs to live in a mansion with a Jacuzzi in every room.
That pretentiousness seem to affect a very envious sector of the middle class, rather than the lower classes. Lower classes fail at something called life management, reason why illegal aliens are more likely to get out of poverty by the 2nd or 3rd generation, while poor people born in the same country stay poor.
Life management was one of the virtues of socialism, helping people who flat out did not know how live freely, by taking some of the burden from their hands, the problem was that some of those programs failed because it only taught poor people to be lazy, and even more irresponsible. It seems the way to foment progress is by poking the poor every once in a while.
>>64382936
I study this problem every fucking hour.
Labor has gotten cheaper. If minimum wage had gone up with inflation it would be over $20. "You're just bad with money!" is only something dumb rich bastards say. Check yourself
>>64382873
...
Princess
If people unilaterally stopped using credit to buy useless bullshit, then the economy would grind to a screeching halt.
And nearly every major business you can name will go under.
Like it or not, not only our economy but our fucking country itself is built upon debt slavery.
>>64380709
>>64380975
Seriously. Same boat as all y'all Anons.
...but the worst part is, I don't think I have the math skills to pull of a banking or accounting job.
I'm not really "numbers-smart", so I don't even know what other alternative I have.
I've only putted around my junior college, rather than flooding myself with debt, but it's getting close to me transferring to a big-league college and now I'm having doubts if I should keep art as a hobby or not.
On top of all that, I still don't think I've developed enough skill to have a career in art, anyhow.
So I guess I'm super fucked, either way...
>>64383077
>Payday loans are a very profitable business, and it's not just idiots who use them.
That's not true, but ok.
>Almost any cheap version of a product is guaranteed to be less durable and less healthy
If you shop around you'll find a passable cheap version.
Food is another issue entirely, and you're right about that.
>>64383027
Give me some numbers sweetheart. You have nothing.
>>64382959
Furniture, food, a decent car, home repairs, heating said home and keeping it cool in the summers. You know, little stuff.
>mfw animation/illustration is pretty much the only skill I have
Looks like a bright future for me.
>>64383123
Fuck off, son.
I'm not lecturing anyone about funds here. I said if we had a reasonable safety net you wouldn't need exorbitant minimum wage.
>Check yourself
Really? You choose the rallying cry of radfems, otherkin, and MRAs everywhere?
You're slime. Die in a hole.
