If you had the choice between an authentic version of a meal, and a tasty version of a meal? Which would you choose?
btw if you choose the first then you are clinically autistic.
Depends. If I just want to eat something then I don't give a crap about how authentic it is or is not. If it's tasty that's all that matters.
On the other hand if I am trying to learn a new type of cooking then I think there's something to be said for understanding the original before branching out and fucking with the recipe.
Sometimes I want tex-mex/Italian-American food, sometimes I want my own bastardized interpretation of them, sometimes I want real Mexican/Italian food. All of them are tasty in different ways and it's disappointing to get one when you're in the mood for another.
>>7175583
You don't put the basil on after it's cooked, i'd throw it in the garbage and make it again.
>>7175583
The authentic version of a meal is usually an extremely tasty version so I always win by chosoing tradition.
Why not both?
>>7175583
If the authentic version of a meal isn't the tastiest version then it's not worth having
I know you're shitposting but I agree with the sentiment. I don't care about to the letter authenticity if changes can make it tastier.
Honestly most authentic food only exists due to food constraints 100's of years ago anyway, if italians had access to cream they'd have put it in Carbonara for sure.
>>7175627
I don't understand why this is a meme now. Once you click on the thumbnail, the pizza actually looks pretty tasty.
>>7175583
>If you had the choice between an authentic version of a meal, and a tasty version of a meal?
Nice false dichotomy there. Traditional foods are usually worked out to be delicious, because they benefit from generations' worth of honing to work out the best possible form for that dish. If an "authentic" dish comes out less than tasty someone fucked up with the technique or the ingredients (or both). Many traditional dishes rely on very specific ingredients and techniques. For example, the pizza in your pic depends on San Marzano tomatoes, buffala mozzarella and a very hot wood fired oven for its tastiness. Slack off on any of those details and you won't have the traditional result.
That's where traditional and tasty diverge - when someone half-asses it and calls "authentic". The rest of the time they tend to be one and the same.
>>7175677
Fuck off you fucking wop.
I will take the authentic, thanks.
>>7175622
This
Anyone who disagrees with me is a junk food subhuman flyover trashman who thinks pizza with doughnut batter as crust and a heap of fourth rate meat on top is fit for human consumption
>I'll take the authentic please, just like I had on my gap year
>>7175688
3rd generation wop detected.
>>7175667
>if italians had access to cream they'd have put it in Carbonara for sure
If you make it properly it's objectively better without it, so no
>>7175681
This applies to any cuisine from a place where people put a high value on food tastiness. Italy, France, India, Sichuan and Canton, China, Japan, Mexico and SEA are all examples.
But these cuisines are popular in places far from their origin, which means many dishes end up being made with ingredient substitutions and technical changes that end up undermining the food's tastiness. This is why a pizza that looks like OP pic can be amazing in Naples, but underwhelming in Peoria.
There's also the matter of typicity, which varies by region and culture. If you grew up with your baseline for pizza being something covered with low moisture cheese and greasy meat toppings you expect pizza to be akin to a cheeseburger and fries as far as salt and grease are concerned. A lighter style like Neapolitan defies your expectations, so you might consider it less tasty. It would be like giving an espresso to someone who usually drinks drip coffee with cream and three sugars.
>>7175705
>italians
>doing anything properly
This is the nation that managed to half-ass national socialism,anon.
Tasty
Authentic and taste bad is for status
Non-authentic and taste good is for people who actually like food
I used to be a stickler for authenticity. But then I tried Knorr ® Chicken Stock Pot ™. They make any dish, taste better.
You should try it.
If the authentic version isn't the tastiest then you shouldn't be eating the dish!
>>7175712
Since you're autistic as fuck, I'll explain it to you.
1. DO YOU WANT AUTHENTIC
2. DO YOU WANT FOOD THAT ISNT AUTHENTIC BUT TASTES BETTER
Fuckwit.
>>7175716
>Authentic and taste bad is for status
>Non-authentic and taste good is for people who actually like food
This is only true if you live in a place where there are no food traditions reaching back hundreds (or even thousands) of years.
>>7175726
You're trying to force a false dichotomy, and I'm not taking the bait. If the traditional version of a dish is not very tasty you're either dealing with a shitty cuisine or a slack ass cook.
Sure, lightning strikes every now and then, and someone comes up with something new that's delicious and catches on. That's how new dishes are created. But the average cook is not going to beat the combined wisdom of generations of grandmothers and chefs. Unless your baseline for tasty is fast food, in which case you might have trouble with anything that doesn't taste like fast food.
>>7175739
You're so fucking dumb.
All OP wants to know is, do you value authenticity over taste. I wish he would have just asked the question bluntly so people like you don't get confused
>But the average cook is not going to beat the combined wisdom of generations of grandmothers and chefs
A dish can easily be improved with ingredients or cooking methods that weren't available at the time it became authentic. And this is the case almost all the time.
>>7175677
>Traditional foods are usually worked out to be delicious, because they benefit from generations' worth of honing to work out the best possible form for that dish
And that's a good thing.
But traditions can also be limiting. A dish might benefit from ingredients not native to the area. Ditto for technique: perhaps there is a better way to prepare a certain dish but people don't try because "we don't do it that way around here".
Also don't forget that many traditional dishes were born out of poverty and the "classic" recipe can easily be improved upon. Take coq au vin for example. That's what a French peasant farmer made when there was nothing left to eat but the stringy 'ol barnyard rooster. The dish can instantly be improved by using a younger chicken.
>>7175747
>All OP wants to know is, do you value authenticity over taste.
Authenticity is meaningless - it's a buzzword used to sell things like Levi's, Budweiser and Saveur magazine.
Tradition counts, but only in a place where tradition actually exists. Would I seek out pho in Saigon, gumbo in New Orleans and chocolate mole in Puebla? You bet I would, because there's a tradition of making those dishes exceedingly in those places. Would I seek out those dishes in Pittsburgh, PA or Eau Claire, WI? No fucking way. Because nine times out of ten if I could even find them they'll have been cooked by someone only passingly familiar with the traditions behind them, who has added his own "improvements" and fucked them up.
There's no doubt tradition can be improved upon, but that's likely to come from a talented cook who is very familiar with tradition. A person like that would be a rare find in a place that doesn't have much in the way of food tradition.
It's not a matter of authenticity vs taste. It's a matter of whether you're in a place where tradition is relevant. If you are the traditional dishes are likely to be very tasty. If you aren't they may be best avoided.
>>7175747
the question is flawed though
in my opinion authentic pizza like the one in the OP pic tastes way better than greasy pizza with lots of toppings (which would be not authentic) so there is no unauthentic better tasting pizza
unless the authentic pizza is shit in which case the question is even dumber
>>7175760
>That's what a French peasant farmer made when there was nothing left to eat but the stringy 'ol barnyard rooster. The dish can instantly be improved by using a younger chicken.
You've obviously never heard the saying, "The older the bird the sweeter the broth." Using a young bird will cut down on cooking time and produce a more tender result, but very much at the expense of the actual flavor of the dish. The taste will be nowhere nearly as robust.
This is the kind of shortsighted thinking that leads to cooks completely fucking up traditional dishes when they set out to "improve" them.
Someone whose only experience with chicken is commodity grade birds from the supermarket would have no reference point for what various kinds of birds taste like, and thus no idea what the flavor of the dish is supposed to be,.
>>7175690
First generation Korean actually
Your flyover pizza is shit, deal with it
>>7175788
Almost all of the world disagrees with your pizza opinions.
>>7175788
when i say authentic i mean traditional italian pizza, i do not care if it was baked in a stone oven or in a modern oven that can achieve higher temperatures if that results in better taste
>>7175792
if you wanted to know whether people prefer the traditional italian kind of pizza or american style you shouldve asked that instead
the original question implies that traditional pizza is bad and people only eat it because they care about muh authenticity or whatever but that is not the case
>>7175789
I said a younger bird, not the youngest-you-can-possibly get. Of course the flavor of a chicken improves as the bird ages. But there's point at which the opposite starts to happen as well.
The point I was trying to make was that the bird ought to be slaughtered at the optimum age as opposed to oh-crap-there's-nothing-to-eat-but-the-rooster.
>>Someone whose only experience with chicken is commodity grade birds from the supermarket would have no reference point for what various kinds of birds taste like,
Agreed 100%. And it's getting worse: it wasn't so long ago that if you went to the market for a chicken they'd ask if you wanted a fryer, roaster, or an "old hen". Sadly, that choice doesn't exist in most supermarkets these days. Fuck trying to get a heritage breed, it's hard enough find a stewing hen.
>>7175788
This is where the word authentic falls apart into meaninglessness. Neapolitan is my favorite style of pizza as well, but I wouldn't call it any more "authentic" than a New York slice, a Chicago deep dish or the kind of Midwest chain style exemplified by Pizza Hut. They're all legit styles. All are "authentic". Neapolitan is the longest established, and the mother of them all, but if done poorly it can be totally lackluster in comparison to the others.
If I lived in or were visiting a place where I couldn't get a good version of a traditional Neapolitan pizza I sure as fuck wouldn't order it, because it wouldn't satisfy.
>>7175583
>implying authentic and tasty are mutually exclusive
You're some variety of stupid, but I cant put my finger on what.
>>7175792
>Almost all of the world disagrees with your pizza opinions.
almost all of the 1st world eats at McDonalds, listens to Top 40 Pop Music and shops at IKEA and H&M
eat shit you plebeian fuck
>>7175821
>And it's getting worse: it wasn't so long ago that if you went to the market for a chicken they'd ask if you wanted a fryer, roaster, or an "old hen". Sadly, that choice doesn't exist in most supermarkets these days. Fuck trying to get a heritage breed, it's hard enough find a stewing hen.
Preach.
>>7175806
>when i say authentic i mean traditional italian pizza, i do not care if it was baked in a stone oven or in a modern oven that can achieve higher temperatures if that results in better taste
You just contradicted yourself. Traditional Italian pizza is traditionally baked in a wood oven. The wood fire contributes part of the taste. You can't throw around words like tradition, but ignore aspects of that tradition all willy-nilly.
The classic New York pie was cooked in a coal oven and topped with fresh cow's milk mozzarella. There are still a bunch of places in NYC that do that. Not traditional Italian, but traditionally New York. Worth tasting sometime if you're ever curious about what pizza was like when it first appeared in America in 1905.
It's pretty good.
>>7175867
>listens to Top 40 Pop Music
This is entirely and 100% objective. You are not superior for your taste in music.
In the case of Chinese, authentic usually means tastier. Corn starch is an abomination.
>>7175884
And yet the use of starch pastes (not necessarily corn, but arrowroot, etc.) is super traditional in Chinese cooking.
>>7175881
I never said that I was. Music isn't automatically better just because it's more obscure. Chart pop is fucking garbage though so my point still stands.
>>7175913
Chart pop is not garbage you fucking highschooler.
>>7175913
>Chart pop is fucking garbage
Not the same Anon, but I'd argue with you on that. I'd say it's like the fast food of music - crafted to be appealing to the casual listener who has a limited set of reference points for appreciation. If you haven't listened to a wide variety of music in your life pop sounds great, just like if you haven't tried much of the great food out there fast food tastes great.
That doesn't mean the work that goes into a Dr Luke production or the latest offering from Taco Bell is meaningless. That shit is pretty carefully worked out, you just won't find that many musicians and chefs respectively enjoying such things.
>>7175669
One or two people reposting the same image in multiple threads doesn't make something a meme.
In case you missed it, that image was from a thread where anon bought a bunch of cheap pizzas and added a bunch of different toppings of his own, with an emphasis on anchovies.
>>7175996
*cheap frozen pizzas
>>7175943
>Chart pop is not garbage you fucking highschooler.
okay jimbo
>>7175971
pop music isn't bad, I love me some good pop music.
most of chart music is terrible. don't confuse the two.
of course lots of pop music has been chart music at some point, but not all.
not all chart music is terrible, just most is.
not all pop music that didn't chart is good.
it's really not that fucking hard anon. most people have shit taste because most people have a completely superficial interest in music, literature, art, food or architecture. that's just the way it is.
>>7176000
fuck you
>>7176000
luke fucks leia
>>7176012
>it's really not that fucking hard anon. most people have shit taste because most people have a completely superficial interest in music, literature, art, food or architecture.
Absolutely agree with your sentiment, but I wouldn't call it shit taste. I'd call it uncultured taste. Not everybody has the time or inclination to become cultured. That's fine. I wouldn't look down on someone for liking chart pop or fast food. I'm just not going to enjoy either of those things with them, because I have managed to cultivate a less casual interest in those things.
But I don't consider myself superior for it, though. I'm completely ignorant when it comes to cinema and fine art. And I'm OK with that.
>>7175689
10/10 would hang out with
Who wants to hang out people with shit taste in food?
>>7176021
shit taste and uncultured taste are synonymous for me.
if anything it all boils down to subjectivity anway, so my point was "most people have a completely superficial interest in music, literature, art, food or architecture" so that is all I had to say.
this has nothing to do with superiority. taste cannot be objectively superior/inferior. even measuring "interest" or "involvement" with art is pretty silly.
>>7175689
>>7176024
the funny thing here is not the image in itself but rather the fact the "hipster" is used to critisize someone's autheticity -
though the person pictured actually sounds fairly interesting and unique. as a joke this is self-defeating and really shows the nature of the people that call others "hipster" -
they are insecure about their own preferences.
I would get smashed with him and alison 2bh
Taste is only one part of a dish, so many other things factor into your enjoyment of it. Authenticity is over if those things.
Tasty first, of course.
But authentic tends to be "authentic" in a way where a sense of tradition trumps cost-cutting measures, so often a "authentic" food is fucking amazing in taste as well.
>>7176044
>really shows the nature of the people that call others "hipster" -
I suppose, although this creature does exist. There are young, trendy types who flock to specific urban neighborhoods and consider themselves to be connoisseurs of popular culture. And their arrival in a neighborhood signals a sharp rise in rents and the imminent opening of cute coffeeshops, with trendy restaurants soon to follow. I've been surrounded by them for a decade and a half.
>they are insecure about their own preferences.
Or annoyed that someone might have a preference that's outside of their "normal". The kind of person who considers a US chain the apotheosis of pizza is very unlikely to have a preference for Neapolitan or Roman style pizza based on personal experience. They live in a different fucking world.
>>7175583
In the case of pizza, the authentic version is the tasty version.
If you disagree then you are an autistic faggot.
>>7176041
>shit taste and uncultured taste are synonymous for me.
I'd agree they have quite a bit of overlap, but there are always examples of undeniable good things that bubble up from Every now and then a chart topping pop hit is actually a really well crafted song. A chili dog is delicious. A cinder block rectangle of a building, painted pink with a corrugated metal roof might be bad architecture, but it looks cute as fuck under the Bermuda sun.Kerouac's writing might be unedited and all over the place, but it's compelling as hell.
Plenty of stuff that comes from the uncultured world is good, but lots of it is shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqzbCk1LjfA
>>7176605
>people accusing others need to point the finger at themselves first.
That's a lovely thought, but it's Psych 101 that it's way easier to spot the flaws in others than in yourself. And people who feel insecure tend to seek solace in deriding people, ideas and things they find threatening together.Often the ringleaders in that shit are hypocrites, too. The DA who makes a show of going after vice is fucking whores and doing blow. The guy making all the homophobic remarks is the closet case. And the guy calling foods "hipster" or memefood probably wishes he could have access to whatever his concept of gourmet shit is without being mercilessly mocked by his Podunk friends.
See? Projection is fucking easy. I just did a bunch of it.
>>7176044
“Hipster” is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else’s authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.
It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.
Meanwhile, a market myth has sprung up around the term, as well as a cultural bogeyman consisting of elusive white 20-somethings who wear certain clothes (but no one will agree on what), listen to certain music (no one can agree on this either), and act a certain way (you’ve probably sensed the pattern on your own).
You can’t define what “that kind of behavior or fashion or lifestyle” actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That’s because you don’t use “hipster” to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.
The twist, of course, is that if it weren’t for your own insecurities, nothing that a “hipster” could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity - “Do I wear what I wear because I want to? Do I listen to my music because I truly like it? I’m certainly not like those filthy hipsters!” - so you project those feelings.
Suffice it to say, no one self-identifies as a hipster; the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the authentic Us from the inauthentic, “ironic” Them.
>>7176752
love u clt
>>7175583
>implying the two are mutually exclusive
OP, I'm gonna rape you.
>>7176752
>"Hipster” is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else’s authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.
I suppose. The first time I heard it in the modern parlance was from a 20-something guy who had recently moved to the city from the suburbs who worked a meaningless day job and spent most of his leisure time going to catch live rock and roll shows. This would have been around 2001, so the bands he was into were Modest Mouse and Chrome Cranks. He used the term to define Johnny-come-lately fans who latched on to a band that was becoming popular, as opposed to "real" fans like him who had followed the band since before they were well known.
By 2003 that distinction seemed to have disappeared, and "hipster" came to mean anyone who lived in Williamsburg and dressed like Albert Hammond Jr from the Strokes. Which was a lot of fucking people who weren't entirely devoid of irony about it. I heard guys jokingly break each others' balls by greeting each other with, "Hey, hipster!"
It wasn't until five to seven years ago I heard teens using it to refer to bandwagon jumpers and the supposedly unworthy things they jumped upon bandwagons over.
Iver the last decade it came to mean something trendy you didn't want to be associated with instead of a newcomer to something you already liked that happened to become mainstream.
>no one self-identifies as a hipster
I identify as an aging hipster, because I was among the tastemakers at the start of the thing, and I'm not above ironic self-deprecation.
>>7176830
youre a cool dude so im letting u kno that ur replying to stale pasta
>>7176865
But in this case it parallels the discussion, pasta or not.
Hipster used to mean an outsider trying to be part of a scene, then it came to mean anything trendy someone didn't like. Just like authentic used to mean actually being what something claims to be, and now it's just and advertising buzzword.
The fact that OP sees a dichotomy between authentic and tasty implies he has a kind of hipster hating sensibility, in the most current sense of the usage. Because otherwise he wouldn't perceive such a conflict.
>>7176903
I fully agree with you (and your post before that) my man
Authentic italian pizza and food in general is fucking lame
>>7176912
spotted the casual
"Authentic" pizza us the best pizza I have ever eaten. Authentic as in properly made with the right ingerdients and by people who know what they're doing. Even the cheap shit pizzas in italy taste better than newyork or whatever the fuck else style in the us.
A healthy version
>>7176918
>Even the cheap shit pizzas in italy taste better than newyork or whatever the fuck else style in the us.
Quality of ingredients counts. If you get 99 cent pizza in New York or chain pizza anywhere else it's made from the poorest quality ingredients possible so it can be sold cheaply and still be profitable. Some of those ingredients aren't even legal in Italy, because they're not considered fit for human consumption.
>>7176954
>Some of those ingredients aren't even legal in Italy, because they're not considered fit for human consumption.
tbqhf i need a source
>>7176973
There is no source, it's protectionism by pizza cartels in Italy, no doubt run by the mafia in cahoots with the catholics. Quality is a hallucination on the part of hipsters in thrall of these communistic, unhygienic pizza cartels who are merely trying to use Big Government to pull the wool over our eyes and force us to eat "better" (it tastes good to me).
There is literally nothing wrong with making pizza out of cigarette butts, meat that wasn't even good enough to put into Spam luncheon meat, and a binder made primarily of high fructose corn syrup and nonfat milk solids. Anyone who disagrees with me hates America and has literally never even set foot here. I cannot possibly conceive of anyone who would think differently, because I have never met anyone who looks, thinks, acts, or behaves differently than me. Therefore, if anyone in this thread pretends to do so, they must be trolling or clinically insane.
Sincerely,
Wisconsin
>>7176789
That wasn't implied. It was pointing out that authentic doesn't necessarily mean better and some people would prefer it to be authentic than better, given the choice.
>>7177029
Don't be stupid. That was the exact meaning of the question.
>>7177033
No it wasn't
>>7175583
That makes no sense because the authentic meal is how it's supposed to taste
What does "tasty" even mean? Dump MSG and salt into it?
>>7176973
Italy is opting out of growing GMO crops:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-gmo-eu-idUSKCN0RV4C620151001
And they have pretty strict restrictions on what a D.O.C. pizza can be. The government approved VPN guidelines spell out that you must use:
1. A Wood-Burning Oven:
Pizza Napoletana must be cooked in a wood-fired dome oven operating at roughly 800ºF.
2. Proper Ingredients:
Tipo 00 flour, San Marzano tomatoes, all natural Fior di Latte or Bufala mozzarella, fresh basil, salt and yeast -- only fresh, all-natural, non-processed ingredients.
3. Proper Technique:
Your pizza dough must be kneaded either by hand, or with a low speed mixer. No mechanical dough shaping is allowed, such as a dough press or rolling pin, and proper pizza preparation. Pizza baking time should not exceed 90 seconds.
>>7177036
Shit is supposed to taste like shit but the authenticity of the shit doesn't make it good
>>7176988
you forgot that some of the people who disagree might just be pretentious, too. pretentious people always claim to like different things instead of normal things because they think they're better than everybody else.
>>7177048
>Shit is supposed to taste like shit but the authenticity of the shit doesn't make it good
Are you Finnish?
>>7175849
We ought to meet then meat. Then, you ought to propose. At the ceremony, I shall wear my silkiest petticoats beneath my finest frock and tuck my penis neatly so as to make it inconspicuous. Just for you. Then we shall wed and live marriedly ever after in our combined superwisdom that is seemingly far above that of the untermenschen.
>>7177074
No, thanks. But I appreciate you taking the trouble to type all of that. Someday you'll find the right guy for you, tiger!
Outside top restaurants I've never eaten a dish where the bastardization was better than the traditional. Just doesn't happen.
>>7177211
Americans need not apply
>>7177223
Never heard of the top restaurants in America.
Sometimes I'm in the mood to try something the traditional way even if it's likely to not be as nice as what I'm used to. It's just fun cooking and eating that way. I usually only intend to do it once, but sometimes it turns out nicer, i.e. carbonara without cream, since you can actually taste the eggs, pepper and pancetta. I get the feeling people who prefer cream in carbonara have either never tried it without or cooked it wrong, since cream only dilutes the flavour.
As for pizza, I love making traditional margarita, but still get the occasional craving for local take-away pizza stacked with cheap toppings.
I don't know why I bothered giving a serious answer though seeing as OP is only attempting to incite an argument.
