- Anyone here have a successful and durable experience in forex trading ?
- What's techniques did you use ?
- With how much money did you begin ?
- Gives me advice for a beginner like me, please.
I am really sad when i read specialized forums in forex, why?
Because all the trading journal I read ends the same way :
They end up losing all their gains and have their account to 0 dollars, after 6 months or 1 year.
I need testimonials from people who really live forex successfully since several years.
http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/70214-truth-about-forex-you-cant-become-rich.html
I think this method is the best to learn forex or index cfd:
Depositing tiny amount less than € 200 and try to make it grow until 1000, once in 1000 reached 900 withdraw.
With the remaining € 100, try to grow them again to € 1,000, remove 900 ... etc.
Do it 10 times successfully
Instead of dropping € 50,000, losing after six months, redeposit € 20,000 and lose again after one week.
Warning : this thread is only for winner in forex market.
>>1368060
warning: winner coming thru
sma 50
ema 25
thank me later
:p
>>1368373
Excuse me
>>1368373
>sma 50
>ema 25
Simple moving avg and exponential moving average. OK.
Are those # of days?
>>1368373
should tell us the timeperiod as well lad
Instead of this repetetive autism thread everyone hates shouldn't we just create a Daytrading General?
>>1369102
I just today went from 1k to 20k. no joke.
warning: winner coming thru
ursi (30)
ill catch you later
>>1369717
do you mean RSI or is URSI some next level indicator
>>1369699
Are you in alaska?
>>1369699
How? Proof? Are you black?
>>1369699
If you're not careful, you'll be 20k to 100k to zero in a heartbeat.
Be conservative.
>>1370941
unsmoothed
not like your moms butt
>>1369699
Do you live in a house made out of dirt?
Maximum autism required to spam this shit so much
>>1371041
By trading the forex.
I am black, (well actually dark skinned asian-Indian).
Proof attached.
>>1371016
I am not, I am living in western country though.
>>1371041
There's certain niche's that DO exist in the market, These are things only a very small handful of people know. If you can find and exploit them, then you can laugh at people that make 5% a year, or even 5% a month, 5% a week. 5% a day? Now we're talking.
>>1372034
Nope, I live with my parents. The housing in my country is shit-expensive, I will try to save the near $1,000,000 required and buy one. (Hope the price crashes before I do though).
>>1371045
I've experienced that before. I think I've got it under control now.
I've written a sort of pdf ebook on how I did it, but I won't sell it or anything. Maybe il'l give it out to friends/family if i discover I have bowel cancer or if the strategy still works after I've made a shitload of money from it.
>>1372204
>I live with my parents
do they know about your autism? are they also niggers?
>>1372302
What?! How dare you say this to me? I am deeply offend about what you said, this is unacceptable. etc.
tldr; yes.
>>1372429
>>1372204
Im interested in learning these niches
What kind of time are you (profiting ones, anyway) putting into it? I know the basics and I have some free capital but I have a lot on my head nowadays, and I know I'll lose cash if I just go in and half-ass it.
>>1372454
BASTARD! HOW CAN U SAYING THIS?
etc.
>>1372578
I sit in front of the computer most of the day. Usually I spend 30 mins at the start marking out opportunities that might occur during the day, and setting up alerts.
Then I play vidya games, watch movies, shitpost on /pol/ and /v/, normal stuff. I hear an alert maybe, place the trade set the stops and alt tab back to gaming.
>>1372204
Hey what time frame are you trading? (1m, 1h, 1d?)
Also 654 trades within one month? is it some sort of martingale strategy where you double up if you're wrong?
>>1372564
Wouldn't be a niche if people just broadcast it when they found it.
>>1372681
Sort of martingale, but there's hard stops to kill the run-away bad trades. (if you look at the history, you can see a few times the balance will go down by 1 or 2k), and the win-rate of the underlying strategy is near 100%.
5 minute strictly. You can do it on hourly, and four hourly, but they require more time, patience, and money.
>>1372690
thanks for the response. do you trade all day or just between some specific hours?
>>1372696
All day.
In fact my sleeping hours are completely fucked compared to normal people.
Something like Sleep at 5-6am, wake at around 1-2pm. This allows me to catch the mid-end of the aus-japan session, all of the euro session, all of the NY session.
So essentially yeah, I trade all day.
>>1372705
greeat and do you have a favourite pair or pairs? or do you just trade whatever
>>1372728
Some pairs are great:
EUR/USD, GBP-AUD/NZD/CAD/USD/JPY.
Some are coin flips, XAU/USD(gold).
And some I just don't trust like USD/CHN. I'm pretty sure the chinese economic data is fuill of shit 90% of the time, there's no telling when that party is just going to collapse out of nowhere.
>>1372204
obv you had dd's bigger than 15%
>>1372776
True,
That was this month.
also it's counting balance draw downs, not equity drawdowns, which is why is says 14%.
>>1372787
so you didn't go from 1k actually you started with some other amount
>>1372795
No, I actually did start from 1k exactly.
As in the balance AND equity of the account on 29th april this year was 1k exactly.
Currently the balance AND equity is 20k.
The maximum balance draw down was something like 14%.
The maximum equity draw down was a bit bigger, maybe 30%.
>>1372803
so when your balances goes from 2k to 1k, that's obv not a 50% dd
>>1372807
It is. If my balance went from 2k-1k, my max balance drawdown for the strategy would be forever recorded as 50%.
Even if the account gets to $100k size.
>>1372683
Can you explain the concept of finding such niches without naming names?
Nobody will take a Taiwanese backgammon board seriously. ;)
>>1372809
okay, so when your size when from 2k to 1k, why didn't it record that as a 50% dd...
>>1372826
They are usually combinations of commonly known things.
You need a way to quickly test strategies. Demo accounts simply aren't fast enough as you want to be modelling months/years of testing... and 90% of the strategies you'll try will fail.
One option is automated testing, but some strategies are very difficult to code. Usually it's never as simple as "If price is > indicator line".
Especially if your strategy involves identifying and exploiting trendlines dynamically.
The other option is using forex simulation software (the path i went down), these let you play back weeks/years of historic data in minutes.
So you can think up a strategy, sit down for an hour and simulate a 6 month test, and know exactly where the strategy falls short, and you can work from there.
Third thing is, these niche strategies aren't some sort of cheat that warren buffet doesn't know about, there's a trade off. You're taking on more risk than you should normally take.
For example there's like a 1-2% chance you'll blow the account up on my strategy. That's small enough for me to be able to build fairly robustly.. but I'd never use this kind of strategy on a million dollar account (Which is why warren buffet is famous for making 30% a year, and I'm making 30% a week).
So if you're looking for these kinds of niches always expect some level of unstability. but the trick is if you can make 500% or something, and siphon 300% off and then blow up. You're in the money.
This is the phase I'm up to with this one.
Now I want to use the 20k, to put away maybe another 20k into a seperate savings account, and then move up from 20k, to 30k. That way if the worse case happens and it blows, Il'l still be deep in the green.
>>1372857
looks like he is showing in his image only between July 1 to now, so his DD for that period was what is shown. if she shows from April 1 to now then it might show the bigger drawdowns
>>1372857
Because I never went from 2k to 1k. I went from something like 12k-10k, and 19k to 16k~
>>1372871
Eww... I don't know why it spaced it out like that.
>>1372877
actually nvm it shows 1750 to FUCKING ZERO
>>1372894
Equity and balance difference.
Pic related zoomed :3.
>>1372897
the balance didn't dropped from 1.6k to maybe 1.2k?
The equity damn near wiped though.
With low acount sizes like 1k though wiping isn't the endd of the world.
>>1372899
the equity includes the balance, you fuckwit
you almost wiped out the account, that's not a 14% dd
>>1372905
Yes, I almost lost 2k.
But that statistic your commenting on is literally balance drawdown, it's calculated on closed trades, NOT equity.
>>1368060
>- Anyone here have a successful and durable experience in forex trading ?
No.
Quit asking.
>>1372909
exactly
you almost lost your account
yet you say the most you were down was 15%
>>1373023
how could pajeet successfully money changer when he can't even learn how to poo in the loo?
>>1372909
if you had 1k equity and put on a 10k trade, and you lost 500, on that trade; the drawdown on equity would be 50%. your trade drawdown would be 5%.
nobody ever talks about drawdown in terms of how much you lost in a position. especially when you're using leverage. you are gambling and using a fuckload of leverage. you're gonna get fucked hard one of these days. and your broker is going to either force liquidate the position resulting in a massive loss before putting equity negative.....
OR you're gonna be this guy https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/3bcutg/negative_balance_from_broker_debt_collection/
>>1373675
I think there's a massive difference between simply over-leveraging and what I'm doing.
I mean any noob can over-leverage and make big returns. But how many of them can stably turn 1k into 20k? in a few months?
I completely understand there is a risk of me blowing up the account. I accept that. That's the trade off for making 2000% in 3 months.
But I don't think that risk is anywhere near straight up 'gambling'. (otherwise I never would have made it to 20k).
I think a lot of people misunderstand Forex, they see the big money managers making 2% of a 30 million dollar account per year, and say "Yep, I'm going to make 2% off my 1k account!"... What's the point?
There's one big advantage retail traders have over big guys and that's they don't get sued if they blow the account. 1k isn't that abd to lose, heck 100k isn't that bad to lose...
But if you lose $20,000,000 of client money, that's possible jail time for negligence and career's end. That's why they don't take risk.
I think something like 2000% returns while putting 1k of my own money at risk, with a maybe 1-5% chance of blowing the whole thing up (losing 1k) is perfectly acceptable. I'd take that trade every. single. time. And I'd be ridiculously wealthy for it.
>>1374006
can you do a how to not shit in the street for your next blog, pajeet?
>>1374063
Only 3 poo loo responses.
I'm a little dissapoint;
Surely you can do better than that;3
>>1374206
>mfw your equity curve
There was a time where i would have called you a cuck and a liar, but i have enough experience to believe you now
Just be advised, your strategy is simply the result of overfitting+favourable market conditions. In a different environment you are likely to blow up, and you will (prices are not normally distributed)
If i were you, i would withdraw half of my account and then proceed to try again to reach 20k with 10 accounts with your remaining 10k.
For the record, statistical gambling systems are not hard to create, provided you know it's still gambling.
That being said, try to get the opportunity to look into longer term swing strategies, shooting for 15 R or 20 R per trade (yes, your win rate will be shitty). Long tail strategies are inherently more robust, and are far more scalable
>>1374206
Addendum: these threads get filled quickly with underage kiddies with demo accounts using big words to impress their fellow underage shitposters.
Don't bother arguing with them
>>1372871
>The other option is using forex simulation software (the path i went down), these let you play back weeks/years of historic data in minutes.
>So you can think up a strategy, sit down for an hour and simulate a 6 month test, and know exactly where the strategy falls short, and you can work from there.
What software?
Did you program the API for your trades?
Also, what broker, and why?
>>1374364
Perhaps.
But this is discretionary manual trading. I adapt as the market changes.
I will eventually have to move onto longer term strategies, but the danger there is the longer you hold, the more you leave yourself open to news related spikes that can devastate your trades.
>>1374382
Platform is Ctrader.
No API, just dumb retail trading on pre-built platform.
I went with IC-markets as the broker. It's an ECN broker with somewhat high commissions and small spreads.
If you're going to be trading like this you can't trust a market maker broker to not screw you over. (No one wants to be on the other side of a 1k-20k trader, and they WILL find some way to screw you out of it if they can).
>>1374482
>But this is discretionary manual trading.
Ah, better. I never had any luck with short term trading, found my way with a longer term swing approach. Systematic, a bit of discretion involved.
Anyway well done mister. Also check out intraday trading with indexes, heard that's where the $$$$ are. I'll probably move there once i can make the transition to full time trading
Well done lad, just be careful
>>1372705
>In fact my sleeping hours are completely fucked compared to normal people.
>Something like Sleep at 5-6am, wake at around 1-2pm.
S-So like my normal sleeping schedule? NEET here.
>>1372705
>2016
>trading manually
nobody does that jesus christ you people are medieval. at least 95% of all market is algos trading nowadays not even retailers trade manually
>>1374554
I trade manually as well
>>1374006
>in a few months?
overfit trading method. 5-10 years and you'll know how reliable your strategy is. most market models imply a normal probability distribution. the reality is not the case. that tail will catch you at one point or another.
i agree with your risk taking mindset. i'm an active trader. but only dabble here and there in forex. what i don't agree with is your overconfidence. the market is a fickle thing.
>>1374583
market returns are log normal with a slight upside bias
this is how you account for fat tail risk (plus using the fat tail risk indicator known as SKEW)
though this is concerning equities and not currencies
>>1374554
Only 85% of all trading activity is comprised of algorithmic trading. Don't confuse electronic orders coming from e-trade and shit with algos. Also, volume doesn't equal mass. Algos trade more volume but there aren't more algos trading than humans.
>>1374491
Ive been trying to implement a Trading Robot in Metatrader 5 for ages. I backtested the shit out of my about 50 strategies until now and i cant seem to find a strategy to work. Overfitting is just one of my problems. Order execution the other problem when trying to develop a scalper.
So do you recommend manual trading to adapt to market conditions and see when the price is influenced by news?
>>1375153
Don't scalp ffs.
Protip: use 3 timeframe above M30, make sure the trend is aligned on all 3, fade any opposing move on the lowest tf. Always use a stop loss.
Trailing stop or use Low/High of the month/week/day as reference points for your take profits.
Don't forget pyramiding
>>1374625
more generally, i'm talking about black swan events like brexit. you would have been a fool or a genius to have an existing open position going into the referendum. it was much safer to determine the trend while the votes were being casted. a 17 cent drop in forex is no fucking joke.
>>1375153
this is my opinion: scalping as a retail algo guy won't work. that's how the HFT firms make most of their money. they fight each other over basis point movements. you can't beat them at that game. personally, i tried scalping as my first strat. couldn't get it to work either. you gotta find a niche. something the quants overlook.
>>1375681
>brexit
>black swan
I don't think you understand what a black swan is.
>>1375685
le wiki
>The black swan theory or theory of black swan events is a metaphor that describes an event that comes as a surprise, has a major effect, and is often inappropriately rationalized after the fact with the benefit of hindsight.
Based on the author's criteria:
The event is a surprise (to the observer).
The event has a major effect.
After the first recorded instance of the event, it is rationalized by hindsight, as if it could have been expected; that is, the relevant data were available but unaccounted for in risk mitigation programs. The same is true for the personal perception by individuals.
all the bookies were betting that it would be a stay. every single headline the day after expressed surprise. the ES hit almost 2120 going into brexit. it hit a low of 1980. why? because emotional momentum. i mean OBVIOUSLY, you should have shorted the GBP against every pair and shorted the major indexes. OBVIOUSLY. CLEARLY, the GBP was going to lose well over 1000 pips against every pair. only fools and geniuses dare to predict.
it was too bad because most of my indicators were negative and i was seriously going short at 2100. hit a low of 1980. i didn't want any of the fucking volatility so i stayed out. and now we are at all time highs. personally thought the move was overdone at 2000 so didn't short further.
>>1375703
>brexit
>surprise
What's the surprise in a vote?
>>1375703
oh btw you don't seem to account for social indicators
if everyones buying then you should be selling. quite simple, really
>>1375708
>all the bookies were betting that it would be a stay. every single headline the day after expressed surprise.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-how-the-bookies-got-eu-referendum-odds-so-wrong-40-million-bet-a7100856.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/how-they-got-it-so-wrong-complacent-traders-stunned-by-brexit
the surprise was in the outcome. you can be contrarian to your hearts desire. but fortunes were lost shorting the dotcom bubble because prices just kept going up until they finally collapsed well past the profit target. i want to short the ES now but i'm not about to fight market inertia.
everything is perfectly fine in the world. the SPX is at all time highs. the fed will keep rates low. the employment situation is improving. BUY BUY BUY.
>if everyones buying then you should be selling
put your money where you mouth is. open a short position on the broader US indexes. etf, futures, short stock. whatever. as you say, it's simple.
>>1375724
it was a binary event, or maybe, if you wanna be a big dick sucking faggot, a mostly binary event with a small chance of a tie.
the result of a vote isn't something that hasn't occurred before. there have been many, many votes in mankinds time.
>>1375730
i don't know why you insist on arguing. the outcome was perplexing. as well as the massive rebound after the reaction. the market priced in a firm STAY outcome. it was leave. and then, we hit new highs. makes perfect sense.
i'm going to play some video games and look at some charts now. you can insist on brexit being a foregone conclusion but hindsight makes everybody a genius.
>>1375738
>leave
>remain
>perplexing
>>1375741
sweet meme texting friend. open a short on the US indexes if you're so sure. you put a foot in your mouth by proclaiming "it's simple". my assessment of your general level intelligence has been steadily dropping as this conversation progressed. i feel stupider continuing to converse with you so i'm closing this thread and hiding it. feel free to reply to me with more meme arrows tho.
>>1375762
dude
the vote already happened
>>1375762
Fucking rekt
>forex
Why? You're not beating algos/central banking rigging.
>>1375762
>you have to short US indexes if you're so sure
How about I bathe in my silver and gold earnings instead?
Oh, you weren't even in precious metals? Sucks to be a cuck.
>>1375153
Automatic trading can work, but youl'l find that most strategies do well for a period and then fall flat on their face when market conditions change. This is really really hard to avoid because your algo can't say "Oh shit, Japanese election, let's not long the Yen at the moment".
You'd need to write some really sophisticated stuff that's way beyond just "If price > indicator then buy". I think most professionals that are doing this are regularly changing algos based on market conditions.
I did see one guy in a Machine learning class I did have some pretty amazing success with a neural network which compared commodity prices, bank rate decisions, and global indexes before buying.
I do recommend manual trading to people starting out though. It has the advantage of you being able to make judgement calls on things world news events. That said you need a working strategy before you make judgement calls on when NOT to take trades.
>>1375427
This works.
Throw in a lot of fundamental analysis (generally use fundementals to pick a trade and a direction, use technicals to pick an entry)...
Use extremely wide stops, and don't be afraid to go 1:1 profit/loss ratio.
This is about the strategy I was using before the one I used now.
Although I disagree with the 'don't scalp' remark. The 1k-20k was scalp based.
Why should I not bet against the euro when bad news is inevitably announced on July 27th regarding DB? Would this not be a blow to the euro? Asking for input from anybody who has experience.
>>1374206
>designated
>>1375940
>Use extremely wide stops
Why do I feel like you've been trading for a very short period.
If you use martingale type trading you're bound to wipe out your account sooner or later.
>>1375703
I don't want to be "that guy" but my system signaled me a huge GBP dump one hour before the exit polls. Didn't get in because i was afraid of volatility fucking me in the ass, but i would have made 20R in a couple of hours
As per the black swan thing, Brexit wasn't a black swan event. Black swans happen when a market event is poorly priced or not priced in at all (see CHF event or that drop of the NZD during august last year)
>>1375948
Market has already priced in that event senpai, too late for that
>>1376034
Bout 3 years now.
>>1376034
statistically speaking, if you have a short stop, you're more likely to get stopped out than not
>>1368060
It is near-impossible to trade forex alone profitably. The best Forex trader ever (George Soros), Immediately pulled his money out and diversified as a result of his successful bet.
>>1376855
You clearly pulled that out of your ass but hey
>>1376929
not as clearly as your mom pulled my dick out of her ass but hey
u gotta look at the stocks and forecasts and read the news and think about it to see what stock will go up than buy and sell ( or sell and buy if its short ) at the right time and u can make big profit and cut yourself like a 20 or 30 or 50% percent share of the total assets, please help me guys how do I get into trading and make a fortune off it
>>1376994
be 12 elsewhere
>>1376835
No shit, but the less probable will have larger hits.
>>1377371
Hey, look how many posts ago i called this >>1374367
Silly me. Now read again my posts carefully youngblood, there is enough to build a reasonably enough robust system.
Otherwise, feel free to fuck off since i will not bother responding you again until you are 18
>>1375933
Thats it. I never got to successfully forward test any of my strategies. (Meaning to fit the strategy to a certain time period, say 3 months, and simulate it for the next 3 months with the fitted parameters and make profits again in the second 3 months)
I thought i could find repeating patterns in market conditions, where an input parameter change can be enough for adaption.
Btw in the end my strategies kinda resembled neuronal networks (as in a blackbox model where input and output dont get a causal link) with so many parameters of indicators and derivatives therof.
The thing with analyzing bank rate decisions is the automatic interpretation of the algo. Maybe my programming isnt good enough.
I think ill try this:
>>1375427
Thanks for the Tip!
Anyone else tried automatic trading? or is everyone manual trading?
>>1377408
>he doesn't into math and statistical expectations
i wont be speaking again to you since you will have been margin called by the time you read this
>>1377410
>I thought i could find repeating patterns in market conditions,
There are plenty of them if you look carefully enough.
As per the automatic trading thing, i have cooked something like 80 strategies, they were all shit. Except one that still needed some manual intervention to work properly.
The only advice i can give you is to look into trend following systems. If you can bear the volatility, you can literally make money with random entries and random stops, provided you milk the trend.
Look for reactions near High/Low of the month/week, these levels tend to have a certain importance. Shoot for extremely high R, even if it means having a low win rate (mine is around 14%)
>>1377410
Oh and if your programming skills are good, stop wasting time with forex and look into futures. They are relatively easy to scalp, much, much more than fx since you get a real order book to look at, real volume and tend to react well to intraday mean reversion models.
Look into market profiling if you want to go that way. I have heard a lot of good things about DAX
>>1372204
growing 5% a day means in a year you'll turn $1000 into $67 Billion
>>1374012
1:20's a pretty nice limit. Personally I don't use stop losses so in a pinch I double up from 1:40 to 1:80. This year I got stuck in a pinch twice in 3 months and that was how I doubled the equity.
>>1374006
>I completely understand there is a risk of me blowing up the account. I accept that. That's the trade off for making 2000% in 3 months.
I think the point is making a strategy where in 99.999% of scenarios you DON'T blow up the account. I have a very conservative risk strategy that maximizes loss at 5% for any given period and typically pulls in >35% annually. I imagine it would be extremely difficult to consistently profit >500% per year (without being involved with market making) without eventually blowing up the account over a 20 year time frame. But I do think it's possible to profit >150% per year with relatively little risk. And if illustrating enough discretion one can make on average >1,000% per year over a 10 year period if they only trade based on macro-events like the Ruble collapse but they would have to be quite accurate when it comes to timing.
>>1372871
>and I'm making 30% a week).
Impressive.
>but the trick is if you can make 500% or something, and siphon 300% off and then blow up. You're in the money.
That's a neat operation.
>>1374006
>I think something like 2000% returns while putting 1k of my own money at risk, with a maybe 1-5% chance of blowing the whole thing up (losing 1k) is perfectly acceptable. I'd take that trade every. single. time. And I'd be ridiculously wealthy for it.
Isn't this really the point of the forex? But those returns seem impossible to me, is the forex really that predictible?
How the fuck do you trade forex profitably? I've tried so many different strategies, I've spent countless hours creating, reviewing and revising my strategies and I've lost thousands of dollars. How do I improve, how do I make it? I'm really desperate.
>>1378521
you can't.
http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/70214-truth-about-forex-you-cant-become-rich.html
>>1378521
since you're desperate-
http://babypips.com/school
http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/45414-understanding-price-action-chris-capre.html
>>1378555
I've already read through everything on babypips and I frequently use their forums but thanks anyway, any help I can get is appreciated.
>>1378583
there's some more decent free stuff by chris capre at 2ndskiesforex.com
>>1378608
thanks, do you have any other tips?
>>1378636
every conceivable strategy is completely useless without good money management
>poorly veiled advertisement for your website on an underground pine cone decorating forum that few visit, care about or take seriously
wew lads
like clockwork too.. it hurts mom where am i
>>1377467
No I've already capped my income per trade, or atleast scaled it down.
Now the larger my account gets the SAFER it gets, as opposed to just generating more profit.
I already make 5x or so what I'd make at a day job per day.
>>1378451
>>Isn't this really the point of the forex? But those returns seem impossible to me, is the forex really that predictible?
Forex itself is unpredictable, but human nature is predictable.
For instance, instead of trying to figure out where the market is GOING to go look at the actions of people reacting to where it HAS been.
You see a heads and shoulders pattern. Does it break the neckline? Good. You KNOW a whole bunch of people shorted that (And a whole bunch Longed it and lost their money)..
Where are the people that shorted that going to take profits?
YOU KNOW that they ARE going to take profits, at some point, it's no longer so much of a guess as it is a "how big will the move be of all those people taking the profit"... Well look at the volume of the neckline break. Large volume = Large amount of people taking profit at the same time.. Find out where that's likely to be, and you've got yourself a scalp that's a LOT more likely than the original heads and shoulders pattern.
>>1378669
