Are there people who actually make money off of day trading?
>>1259238
With the exception of Goldman Sachs using HFT to game the market, profitable day traders are like unicorns. You've heard of them, but you've never seen any proof of one.
>>1259238
We already told you, it's not GoPro's fault their stock went down, so you have no standing to sue.
You're not going to get any of your money back.
>>1259238
Yeah, most of my trades are daytrades. I'm up 27% last year and 40% this year.
However, I'm a collegefag so I've only made ~4K in profits, but I'll hopefully be a richfag in the longhaul.
>>1259238
Correct me if Im wrong but from what I understand, if you have enough capital to dump into a stock and then that stock jumps up 2-3% and you sell, then wait for it to drop and then rinse repeat. You can make decent income?
>>1259246
Look at SKLN for example, it repeatedly jumped up and down between 0.14 to 0.15 a share. Could you not just buy the dip and then sell 20 mins later then buy the dip again and do that all day?
>>1259250
Honest question:
What's stopping you from doing just that?
I make 120k a year and then just dump it into ETFs, index funds, mutual funds, and bonds.
I couldn't be bothered to be an active day trader... seems like a shitty way to make a living.
>>1259256
A trade has to be a minimum 1k to offset the fees of buying and selling cause its usually 10 dollars a trade or 20 dollars total to buy and sell one time
>>1259258
robinhood?
>>1259258
So if you had 1k, you would already be doing this?
>>1259259
>>1259260
No I have TD waterhouse, I just lack the capital to trade like that right now. I'd require more than 1k because I wouldn't spend money Unless I had a decent surplus in case you gotta quickly cut losses where a stock goes the wrong direction you wanted it to go.
Using SKLN as an example, 3k would be an ideal number because a jump from .14 to .15 is roughly 200 bucks after fees
>>1259265
>200 bucks profit after fees
>>1259265
>I just lack the capital to trade like that right now
Sounds like there are two options here.
One, is that this is not a profitable strategy, and even those with 100x your capital are not engaging in it.
Two is that the pros are purposely not utilizing this strategy in order to divert attention from how lucrative it is.
>>1259276
You're probably right, Im no professional when it comes to trading but Im sure this strat can burn you eventually if you get unlucky
>>1259279
I'll tell you this much.
The most obvious strategies have been considered and rejected, or, in the worst cases, co-opted from the other end in order to better profit from the chum that is newbies.
I exclusively day trade. I actually have a rule about not holding a stock into close unless it's on earnings and I've done a ton of research.
It works if you know how to do it. You'll be leaving a lot of people holding the bag constantly though.
>>1259336
Where did you start. I currently have 3 days off with my current job that I do t do anything.
I don't want to get a second job but I habe no idea where to start learning hardcore how to trade.
>>1259336
>I exclusively day trade. I actually have a rule about not holding a stock into close unless it's on earnings and I've done a ton of research.
>It works if you know how to do it. You'll be leaving a lot of people holding the bag constantly though.
>>1259336
>>1259336
This right here. If you don't have rules and stick to them your going to get burned. My number 1 rule is take your wins when you can and cut losses quickly. People get too emotionally invested in a stock when day trading and end up holding too long.
>>1259351
Investopedia is a good place to start. Lots of free resources.
>>1259336
>I actually have a rule about not holding a stock into close
They only go down between sessions?
>Not day trading leveraged ETFs
>no brokerage fees
stay dumb /biz
>>1259377
No, not necessarily. You just cant get out if the stock all of a sudden plummets.
>>1259381
>he uses Robinhood
>no margin account
>no short selling
>>1259381
>Not trading with a TFSA account
>Paying taxes on gains
Stay broke lel
>>1259774
>he pays commissions
top pleb
>>1259238
Keynes made >10% per year day trading during the great depression
>>1259793
t+3 lmao. when you plunk more than 10k on a position, you probably don't care to use a RH account. IB gives me access to every major global stock market, forex, CFDs, whatever. you name it. i just did a forex CAD to USD using their inhouse routing, lost 3 bucks in conversion. basically no spread. then oil went down for the day so i was up like $80 lol. hotshot comin through.
>>1259777
CRA has been cracking down on that. just google it. they're probably stupid and looking at total profits not % gains though. apparently like 2 years in, there were people with 200k already from gains. gov't went NOPE.
>>1259822
They just limit how much you can deposit in your tfsa per year. If you have 10k and theoretically turn it into a million, you'd pay zero tax. They've already massively reduced the ammount we can deposit a year. Based on my age my max I can deposit is $46,500 which I am not even close to and my gains dont count towards that cap
>>1259826
you're wrong
http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/tfsa/canadians-with-too-many-wins-in-their-tfsa-being-targetted-by-cra
>>1259832
lol liberals so mad that they can't take our money to fund their wastefule expenditures
>>1259793
>muh $5
If $5 is make or break on your trades, stick to your sandwich artist job. The commission is well worth it for better quality in terms of types of trades allowed, execution speed, good pricing on stocks, etc. Unless you get true real-time bid/ask elsewhere, robinhood is fucking you on that as well.
>>1259836
yep. i'll just stick to trading normally. i'm not dealing with that shit. most of what i trade isn't stocks anyways so what do i care.
>>1259238
if you have enough capitol you can consistently make money. I haven't taken a loss once. I'm either extremely lucky or maybe I'm on to something. The thing is the more money I have the more conservative I trade so essentially I'm gambling more money for less returns out of fear.
>>1259804
that was 80 years ago
>>1259837
not that anon but I agree. I personally think robin hood is shit. the way it works you could loose your ass before your trade goes through. 10 bucks a trade is well worth the guaranteed 2 second execution.
>>1259841
Yeah and 2% gain on 1k vs 10k is actually profitable after factoring in fees.
>>1259822
>t+3
too bad I have RH instant cancuck
>>1259859
>You can get early access to Robinhood Instant by inviting new users to join Robinhood. The more people you invite, the more you’ll move up in line. This helps ensure that all Robinhood users who are excited about Instant have a fair chance of getting it, independent of how much money they have in their account or how often they trade.
you mean i'm forced to viral for this company just to use a feature that's free with a legit brokerage that also allows me to trade any other financial instrument globally while having well above industry creditor balance protection?
holy shit! lemme transfer all my cash to RH.
>>1259842
I don't see how that's relevant. The question was whether people made money day trading.
I could also point to the plethora of hedge funds who have a positive ROI via basically daytrading. It's worth noting that the upper tiers of management usually play with their own money as well as their client's, so if they were losing money I doubt they would offer up their own funds.
>>1259841
>I haven't taken a loss once.
Of course you haven't.
>>1259870
nigger please, I referred one of my best friends who was looking for a broker anyway. got instant the next week
you sound anally annihilated buddy. enjoy your 5 dollar a trade
>>1259265
I think your math is quite a bit off there.
>>1259876
you sound poor. gimme your paypal. i'll send you $100. probs quadruple your RH account.
>>1259872
buy low sell high. I may just have picked some good stocks. I know everything about the businesses I picked and their competitors. My advice would be dont invest in things you have no idea about. if you do that you might as well go to vegas.
>>1259880
No its not?
3 grand spent at .14 a share and then sold at .15 a share is $214 minus 9.99 a trade and you're at $194
>>1259872
I ran in to a guy like this Wednesday!
Several, actually. None of them had any losses, and they were all consistently beating the index returns.
They were all on Robin Hood, so i guess they know each other.
>>1259777
You'll get busted. I work at a firm where people made over million in their TFSA's. They all received massive tax bills. You can still buy and then sell in a couple weeks or a month and it won't be considered day trading. If you are buying and selling the same stock 5-10 times a week then you will be noticed and put on radar.
>>1259987
I dont understand how they can do that, They are the ones that let me open the account in the first place. Just making new rules as they go I guess.
>>1259377
The issue is they can do anything while market is closed... You day trade but decide to break your rule just once and hold oil over night because it's looking good for the week and 3 hours after close there is a nice BP oil spill. Enjoy waking up to months of lost gains.
Find a set of rules that works for you and don't deviate from them.
I set a stop before I buy, if it reaches it I sell out. Sometimes the stock bounces back and it sucks, but sometimes it would have meant holding for months or years for the trade to go green. If I get green I edge out of the position. When it first levels off I sell half the position, if it dips I sell the rest. If it rallies I let the position run and sell half again at next leveling. I repeat until the position is gone.
For most investors(read 95% or more) you can make more money by minimizing losses.
As a day trader you minimize your losses by minimizing exposure. If I only buy stocks I think are likely to go up, and I only hold them for a few hours, and I'm watching them the whole time, the chances that I take a red day is exceptionally low.
But these are just my rules. I am a part of a chat room, we gouge as a group. I know guys who like gap plays and love buying close and selling open. We have a guy who likes to short after our calls run. There is honestly so many ways to make the market work for you. You just gotta find the niche you excel at and hone that skill until it's an art.
I'm personally really good at picks. That's my thing. But I dump disgusting hours before open into finding things to watch. Most guys don't like that kind of thing.
>>1259351
My start was crazy. I had almost no rules, broke the ones I did have often, and was very lucky. Not good.
Took awhile before I learned how to reduce my risk. As for information investopedia helped a lot. I then got involved in the more social side of stocks(Stocktwits, Reddit, /biz/) and formed a group.
>>1259990
There is a pattern-trading report that most compliance/tax departments run. CRA gives has criteria to what's considered a pattern trader and if you meet that criteria your account will be labelled as a pattern trader.
>>1259993
Does it say that when you sign to open a TFSA trading account?
>>1259991
Oh, I was just making a point about negatives versus positives.
Namely, that the market can jump as a result of news, as well as tank. It's just risk tolerance.
I don't stress about my positions, even from 8pm-8am or during earnings, because I built them with an eye to risk. That is, size-wise, they won't break me, even if they crater.
>>1259238
there is an anon on here that made big off of bitcoin and ETH and day traded with the earnings and supposedly has 3.7M USD and he just recently cashed out and currently isn't doing shit including helping anyone. he deleted me from skype. pic related. he used to give loads of advice if you let him but he stopped because NEETs were too stupid and wasted his time. he spends like 3 hours a day on omegle playing his $3000 guitar he bought for giggles so you'll catch him there. he always shills The Millionaire Next Door as being some mandatory read. supposedly he randomly buys shit for anons "if he likes you". he went on some binge where he bought a dozen anons boxes of kit kats from amazon. he bought someone a $2000 guitar because he liked how they played. shit like that. i only know all of this because /r9k/ is practically a 4chan gossip columb as are the skype groups and i'm a fucking NEET loser who is on 4chan 16 hours a day.
he hates /biz/ btw. kek. says we're laughable. he hates if you bring his money up so if you want to see him get triggered, ask him for something or ask about money.
>>1259991
What's your chat room name? I've been looking for something like this where other investors can talk in real-time about day trading.
>>1259238
yes, but relatively few and a good portion of those who are 'successful' at some period in time are just lucky
of those who've had some longevity they've invariably gone though an early period of luck too before establishing some edge and building up to a position where they can sustain some losses
but basically yes there are people who make a living from intraday trading... lots of them these days are either running a semi-automated approach or increasing their holding periods rather than trying to scalp or engage in any other areas where they'd be directly competing with the bulk of the HFT algos out there
No, there aren't. Even IF you beat the index (and only 0.6% do), you need to do it enough to offset the time it takes. So really, dump it in index funds when SMA50>SMA200 and bonds when SMA200>SMA50.
>>1260518
>No, there aren't
>admits a small percentage beat indices
>small amount = none
You can't make this shit up.
>>1259837
Wait, where do you go that's $5 per trade? I have $10 with some free ones
>>1259238
I was thinking about this but fuck I'm just a pleb who can't afford 25k for a day trade account. However I was looking and it seems so easy.
a)Watch scanner for gap ups and then find one that looks like its getting volume
b)Read news at 9AM and look for significant earnings beats it doesn't matter if its Apple or McDonalds its going to push it up.
You make 5% on each trade with 25K and you know 25K will fill because these companies are freakin huge and low risk. You can just stop loss 2% or something. Tight stops.
If your average per day was 1250 bucks - 30% taxes you'd get 4800 a week. I don't know about you but 18k monthly is good for me.
Its just that its only just a dream and no idea what it would really occur.
Reminder that if you lose the money in your TFSA you will never be able to regain the cap space. Don't daytrade with your TFSAs anons, you will regret it later.
>>1260540
He made it very clear beating the index doesn't necessarily imply making a profit. The time spent on day trading can be worth more than the "profit"
>>1260741
You're not going to make 5% a day consistently. You're more likely to lose your entire principal before that happens.
Why is this so hard to explain to people? Why does everyone think they are some special snowflake who can consistently beat the top tier elite stock traders with experience and education?
>>1260776
The idea sounds good on paper, but they never see what the other side has
>>1260776
Also expanding on that.
On the off chance you could show a long history (1-x years, not months) of beating the S&P 500 there are companies that will hire you right now that will offer you more money than you could ever earn on your own.
>>1260712
IB. 0.005 cents per US share. don't fuck with penny stocks. anything over $10/share with a $10 000 position is $5.
$100/shr @ $10k is $0.50; good as free in my book.
you'll need that $10k to open an account with IB though.
>>1260789
i'll see you guys in a year. i've been backtesting and forwardtesting a strat for close to a year now. went live with it on friday. made 3.3% on my risk capital which was 54% of my total account.
>>1260807
kek my bad. forgot IB has a minimum of $1 commish. still fucking cheap as shit.
>>1260807
You've made 3.3% in a year?
>>1260763
>The time spent on day trading can be worth more than the "profit"
Right.
And my time is "worth" $80 an hour.
So I guess if you're not making $520 a day from trading, you're not "profiting".
Cool math you have there.
>>1260789
I think half this board ignores the elephant in the room which is QE and 0.25% interest rates. Sure the market is doing ok and you 'tested' strat has been performing well over the past few months but who knows when the next big substantial dip or crash will be. Sure feels like speculation.
>>1260812
in a day. my strat has been tested over the last year.
>>1260818
I'm nobody but do you have proof? You'll make the news if what you're saying is true.
>>1260823
Option #1) This strategy is so valuable, he can't risk telling you anything about it.
Option #2) This strategy isn't valuable, but he believes it is, and can't risk telling you about it.
Option #3) This strategy is fictional, and as a result, he has nothing to tell you.
Sounds like you won't learn shit from him.
>>1260830
Notice how i didn't ask about his strategy at all just proof he made 3.3 points a day average? I'd be lying if i said i don't want to know any more about it but i would only like to know if he's telling the truth; i have doubts.
>>1260823
IF and that's a big if
>Option #1) This strategy is so valuable, he can't risk telling you anything about it.
>mfw i sniped the top by about 3 mins and exit well before everybody. le smileyface
>mfw missed a big short opportunity by 3 mins and could have made another $600 easily. le sadface
fuck the first day jitters. 2 trades already made my heart explode.
>>1260841
This doesn't prove anything.
>>1260844
it proves i made a profit on friday. my first live day. you're right though. that screenshot can be made from excel for all you know. i legit don't care if anyone believes me. anybody who legit profitable doesn't care either. and i have no idea what will happen over the next year. except to say what i'm able to take longs or shorts. this strat does not rely on a bull market.
>>1260840
>i have doubts.
given this board, I assume they're gigantic ones?
>>1260850
>show proof for sake of proof
>LOL I DON'T CARE LEGIT
Fuck off faggot. You can't even lie right. You could've just vomited up something about compromising the integrity of your strategy etc etc.
Confirmed lying shitter.
>>1260861
you acted like a decent human being right up until this post. juvenile namecalling won't get you very far in life anon. and this is why anyone profitable on /biz/ will never discuss anything. and for all i know i'll blow up my account in 1 month. i simply give no fucks. least of all, if anon believes me.
wait that's bullshit. everything i said is bullshit.
EMH
random walk
that's all you need to know. invest in the indexes. and don't look back.
>>1260861
Hes not necessarily lying, the thing is it may have worked this time but things always work until they dont. You hear about peoples successes but people arent making threads when they lose 3%. There are people finding arbitrage opportunities all over.
My theory is this guy spotted what he thinks is a consistent pattern, and is trying to repeat trades with it. He likely has very little capital so hes not big enough to make waves if it was a truly profitable arbitrage opportunity
>>1259991
What group and how do I join? I've been day trading for 2 months now and am up 10%
>>1260823
Maybe he's only traded for a day?
