Is there such thing as "too many entrepreneurs" nowadays every kid wants to start a franchise or run a small business. Most of which aren't economically necessary, so we basically end up with all these people with no tangible skills, and if everyone wants to be a business owner eventually three would be no emloyees. How can this be prevented?
>>1235970
there's no such thing.. back in the early days, everyone was an entrepreneur.. shoemakers, blacksmiths, bakers.. they all owned their own business
cuckslavery and wallstreet merchantilism is a fairly new phenomenon
>>1235970
Specify country please. At least here in Canada, where small business form a significant portion of tax income for the government, you can never have too many entrepreneurs.
Half of them will fail, the next half will go out of businesses, and another half of them will stop when they realize being their own boss doesn't mean they can do whatever they want and get paid
>>1235997
this is true.
im only 20, decided to start up my own business because i was so 'fuck the 9-5' 'fuck the 1%' 'fuck being a corporate slave'... boy, did i fuckin grow up in 1 year of business
now trying to diminish my role in the business and go full time work for secure salary and meeting my financial goals
>>1235997
>3/2
Trust fund babies are a plague though.
>>1235988
And back in the early days the population was not 7 billion
The weak, poor and disabled were were to fend for themselves or gotten rid off pretty quickly
>>1235970
Supply and demand mechanisms. Prominence of entrepeneurialship both reduces the supply and increases the demand of paid labour, which is reflected in wages, which go up, making the choice between entrepeneurship and wage work more tipped towards the latter.
Another possibility is the situation in South America and urbanized parts of Africa and India where majority of labour is ran by small time entrepeneurs i.e kiosk owners, street vendors etc, but that is not simply a possibility in US.
also
> economic necessity
Does not exist in market economy
> How can this be prevented
Market economies do not prevent internal changes
>>1236051
Actually no, a lot of evidence in social history shows that the weak/poor/disabled indeed survived and were able to gain providence one way or another. Paris in 1600s had third of its population earning a living through beggary. Cripples were often helped by religious organizations, the schizophrenics were considered full members of community even when they weren't earning their bread.
What you are doing now is inserting this ahistorical protestant-capitalist mindset into a history that combined market capitalism that implants a great deal of its understanding of life with religious morality regarding things like necessity, order and worth.
>>1235997
What are you on about?
Sure, a lot of people have the "huhuh business owners become millionaires from not doing anything!" mentality, and they will fail, guaranteed. That is, if they even try.
Others grow up or have a more mature mindset.
Starting a business is working like a slave and living like a bum for potentially years, with no real gurantee of it paying off, ever. Survival bias and skipping the boring details, combined with a montage culture, make it seem easy to become a successful business owner.
Starting off a business is an enormous sacrifice.
Are you willing to lose friends?
Are you willing to not buy anything, and have the same clothes for years?
Are you willing to do things you don't want to at first, out of free will, to possibly get a reward later?
Some people don't even try, be it due to values, economic liabilities, or fear. Economic liability #1 tends to be the people who breed early, or take out large loans.
Some people dip their feet by starting a side business next to their job, and see their first, second or third attempt that fails, as a guarantee that they'll never succeed in their own business ventures.
Some people become wantroproneurs, living in the dreamland of "tommorow" and "some day"
Some people quit their job, live like a bum on a shaking financial ground, and try their best every day to increase their chances of their business succeeding- A lot of people quit because they see how hard it is to adjust to this lifestyle, and they quit.
While entrepreneurs have become the the new rockstars for a lot of youngsters, I do not see the conversion rate increase, just more people articulating their dreamy wonder life as "CEO", that allows them a life of more consumption than they currently have the ability to.
TL;DR: People are all talk as always. Becoming a business owner is the new pipe dream.
>Source; founded first business at 18, finally seeing some income, and I've had countless conversations with people like this
>>1236064
Top post, nigga. I'm two years in and just staring to pay my bills with hustle.
>>1236060
>muh egalitarianism
>>1236002
I would like to hear more about your story if you can share
>>1236080
You're an idiot. Prove that the sick and dying were left on the street to die if you've got the evidence
ITT > people who believe in the new world order
>>1236531
>Spain
Explains a lot.
>>1235970
Nope. Its pretty much universally a good thing.
>economically necessary
We're talking about a market here. Not a planned economy.
>>1235970
Free market will solve it.
>>1235970
It has become a meme with people my age
>when some people you knew from high school join pyramid schemes and call themselves entrepreneurs
>>1235970
>implying competition isn't "economically necessary"
You sound uneducated, but hey, this is 4chan.
The market will decide if their businesses is necessary or not. They will either succeed or not. What would you rather have happen, we enact rules preventing more people from being entrepreneurs? The barriers to entry in any market is already high enough that most wageslaves like you just keep spinning your hamster wheel, allowing the people with the will and ambition to take charge to get rich on your behalf.
>>1236042
True that, but there are plenty of people who grew up poor but have everything it takes besides capital to run a business. I try not to be jealous of the trust fund babies when daddy funds their business all the way into the ground. Meanwhile I work my ass off saving pennies to become eligible for a business loan.
Some of you need some history on the change that's been happening...
The % of pepople working (their own) small businesses has been on the decline since the '70's.
You always hear politicians say small businesses are the backbone of America's economy? Well, that backbone is shifting towards corporate jobs and fewer entrepreneurs.
That trend doesn't seem to be slowing down either.
Bloomberg just did a surver where they leaned Millenial generation is very afraid of failure, unlike the boomers and gen x ers.
Bunch of millenials growing up in the pussified "participation award" era where there are no "winners" and "losers".
Now all those little bitches are living at home in mama's basement too scared to go out and try to make it on their own.
>>1235989
In the states. I mean yea small business that provide and give back within the community are good. But now you got every other kid dropping out to sell keys chains and t shirts on a beach. What happens noone can do the grimey trench work?
>>1235970
stop telling kids they can do anything the want when they grow up and tell them whatever they do they have to work for it.
>>1235988
Technically no, they just exchanged their services in products usually in barter form. Wasnt really a business it was just their part of serving the economy while being self sufficient
>>1237823
And which generation raised them? They didnt teach themselves these ideals. It likely has a lot to do with the fact that many young people have massive college debt, obvious preventing them from realistically starting their own businesses.
>>1236057
Makes sense.
>>1236064
You described me.
How to go from pipe dreamer to action taker?
>>1238871
Get off 4chan and get to work. Work 80 hours+ a week or you'll never make it.
Take care of your body so you can make it in the long run.
I'm currently working to expand a manufacturing/design company.
My daily schedule is...
5:30AM wake up and exercise for 30 mins
6:00AM shower, eat breakfast, take 200mg modafinil
6:45AM-7:30AM read and respond to emails
7:40PM be at warehouse/office (live 5 mins away)
7:40AM - 12:00PM get stuff done - most important period
12:00PM - eat lunch, my mom brings me lunch to save time
12:30PM - 4:00PM - 2nd block of work time, usually in office still
4:00PM - 8:00PM - meet with clients/maunfacturers around this time, I'll be driving around a lot most days
Any remaining time 4-8PM, I'll read books or something else productive, will also look at ways to cut costs, etc.. Sometimes, I'll get home 9-10PM though.
Finally, go to sleep 10PM - 1AM.
>>1236531
What does this graph mean?
>>1235988
And they benefited from none of the supply chains or economies of scale and scope that our society depends upon today.
>>1237823
Or maybe it's because they are beginning life with far more debt than their parents and grandparents and that affects how risk adverse they are, eh? Or maybe it's because they grew up and witnessed the second greatest recession in US history and are have less faith in the economy than people who grew up in boom times, eh?
People who explain things with "this generation was raised poorly!" are literal idiots. If there are legitimate economic reasons why a group behaves a way, guess what? It's probably those reasons.
>>1238887
>80+ hours a week
If the options are literally "be a wagecuck and make plenty of money to live comfortably and work a standard 40 hour workweek" and "work 80+ hours, probably make the same, maybe a bit more, but almost certainly not twice as much, but have 'freedom' and 'independence' and 'be my own man'", is it really hard to imagine that most of us see that first option as the obvious choice? Not all jobs where you work for a company treat you like shit. Most well-paying, highly-skilled jobs value their employees.
I don't get the meme /biz/ has about this.
>>1238923
I was looking for this point you got it first.
>>1238929
The idea of being "wagecuck" is new age fuckery. I actually am an entrepreneur, but im hard headed and don't have a shit ton of disposable income. Even if you want to be your own boss you can get into sales jobs and get in the trenches and seeing how shit works.
So yea.. Agreed
>>1238834
>they just exchanged their services in products usually in barter form
> Wasnt really a business
retard pls go
>>1238887
You don't actually want to work 80+ hours per week. It flat out sucks. It drains you both physically and emotionally and leaves you chronically exhausted. I've only ever known one person who could really do it, we were interning the same summer in IB and ended up both getting full time offers. Honestly, I think the guy just really really loves investment banking and that's how he does it, but the hours are truly grueling and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.
>2016
>giving VCs control of your company for millions of dollars
shiggy
>>1238932
Wagecuck is overused by neets so they can justify their misery. Anyone with a real job (salary, office/cubicle, or anything that's not working at a restaurant/retail really) isn't a wagecuck. The fact is that most of the neets perpetuating the term are miserable and feel the need to tell themselves that everyone else has it worse.
>>1238942
Barter system and service transaction is not a wild concept. Since you used "pls" im gonna go ahead and assume you're a chronic masturbater.
>>1237817
>>1237817
Commodities can easily be manipulated, whethrr through, law reforms, manufacturing corpation consaldation with banking industries. That leads to what the demand of what the current market needs at the time.
And no. free market allows people to try to sell stupid things.
And you clearly don't understand residual income and passive assets work. You can have a 9-5 and be financially free. A steady stream of income allows you to fuck around with that.
So i believe youre in the hamster wheel. You can sell all the feathers while i raise the chicken
>>1235970
>economically necessary
A frog poster and a communist, how cute.
>>1238949
Hey now don't know restaurants, I'm a wagecuck but I wait tables a couple nights a week on the side and typically make more per hour doing that than wagecucking. It's the party lifestyle that gets to people in the industry, not a lack of money.
>>1239093
Don't knock restaurants *
>>1236480
I can't because they're....dead?
>>1239088
Communist cant only exist with an equal and opposite element. Socialism and communisim are to sides of the same coin. The both works off of each other within a system ment to keep people from being self sufficient while acquiring the assets of their of their own debt system.
See pattern?
Me niether.
>>1239211
Nevermind the typos. Sleep is rare these days.
>>1238923
>economies of scale
Most of the economies of scale are regulatory and created by Wall st. So the point still stands.
>>1239093
The issue is more when you need to raise kids on the income working at a restaurant gives you. It's not necessarily bad, but my point is that a wagecuck certainly isn't everyone that works. That's just what jealous, autistic NEETs say.
>>1238929
>>1238947
>>1238887
>implying anyone works 80+ hours a week
People who brag about this shit are just lazy retards. They feel like they work so much because of how little they actually get done.
First boss was like this.
- If someone called him, he would spend 45 minutes on a conversation that could have been over in 5.
- Would take 30 minutes explaining his grand vision for the company to me on a daily basis
- Would spend 2-3 hours on linkedin a day
- Would take on stingy clients even though we had enough work
- Constant networking events and meetings that were a waste of time
- Would spend 1-2 hours a day on personal shit like getting his car fixed or going to get a haircut
Then he would come home and sit down to do actual work until midnight to meet various deadlines.
You could say he worked 80+ hours a week.
But to be fair he only spent 20-30 hours doing actual work. The other 50 were a mix of interruptions, pointless networking and commute.
It's not an uncommon pattern for these idiots. They sit down to do work that should take an hour and end up spending 4 hours reading blog posts on how to increase productivity.
[spoiler]I'm posting here to see if spoiler tags work in /biz/.[/spoiler]
>>1239863
hey, kill yourself amigo :)
>>1236042
>1/2
>1/4
>1/8
Half of a half of a half. Granted, his wording was retarded.
>>1239852
I know a guy who works 80+ hours a week.
My mom's husband, he has 3 jobs in the health sector and works 36 consecutive hours.
I'll try to explain the best i can, his schedule is like this:
7AM to 5:30PM as a nurse technician in an ambulance
6PM to 00AM as a nurse technician at a hospital
00:30AM to 6AM in another hospital (He works every other day in both hospital jobs)
After he leaves the second hospital he goes to the ambulance again, then he finally goes home. There are resting times in all three jobs and he gets some sleep during his night shifts but still, it's too much work, and this kind of work is mentally exhausting.
Many people, including his coworkers and even his bosses think he is crazy and he is probably doing serious damage to his physical and mental well being, he also has really bad eating habits, eats a lot of junk food. He's 37 years old and has been at this for 8 years.
He has been saving around 65% of his combined income all these years and plans to quit one job this year and another in the next year, he will use 70% of all the money he has saved to buy land, build houses and rent them, he already knows what side of the city is expanding and he can buy a lot of land there cheaply now, the value on these areas will grow a lot in the next years and will have certainly skyrocketed in 10+ years, the city is growing and new industries have been moving here. He says he will study smart ways to invest the other 30%, and if he can make enough money to live comfortably with his passive income and investments, he will quit his other job and dedicate himself solely to the management and betternment of his investments, maybe starting a business.
A small funny fact, my mother also works in the health sector (they met each other working together), she has a degree in nursing and works 7AM to 5PM in a high management position (in one of the hospitals he works in), makes more than him in all his three jobs combined but she wastes too much money.
>>1239852
Google investment banking. 80 hours is a good week. There's a reason I'm getting out of this mess in June.
>>1239852
Precisely.
Too often people confuse "being busy" with being productive
>>1239958
I know people who work in investment banking. They "work" 80h which actually means they doodle on their phones and play clash of clans for like 5h a day. Sucks to be stuck at the office though.
In my case, as a small online business owner, the only burden is the costant availability, but i can squeeze 50percent of the productive shit in 2 or 3 mornings and just read and reply mail occasionally or have some skype call the rest of the week, while i do my own shit. It's all about having good partners and planning ability.
>>1238887
>Work Hard
Work Smart
>>1238907
it means it isnt harder to open a business for yourself despite how liberals will complain that the odds are stacked against new businesses.
it means you have no excuse since most immigrants have succeeded in opening their own businesses most of which came over with little to no education scrimping and saving by working in sweatshops to open their own businesses
>Have startup
>Have beta version of product
>Initial testers like it
>Adding one more major feature, then starting on marketing
For some reason I'm now really fucking nervous. Both because the "one more feature" is the most important one to not fuck up, and because marketing is stressful as fuck.
What's some good ways to take my mind off the stress?
My older brother started his own business/freelance web dev for the last year. He's had 3 clients, pretty much just older people he is "friends" with.
Where can he get more clients? I feel bad for him since he is living in his ex-girlfriend's dad's store.
>>1238887
How did you get started? I have ideas like everyone, but no capital, or knowledge of how to execute them? Would you ever consider mentoring someone?
>>1241682
jack off to porn
I cant handle going into a business.. virtually any business and seeing them just completely being retarded in their business practices:
Not capitalizing on opportunities that are so painfully obvious, terrible customer service, or just over all design of the inside of the shop is just wrong.
It's like I wish I could just find the manager and say " I can increase your business by 30% if you got 5 minutes to listen to me."
But I just usually nope the fuck out and sure enough 3 months later that place is closed or under new management.
Yet here I am afraid to pull the trigger and start my own business.
>>1241723
being a critic is easy
>>1241759
True, but when you see obvious flaws. I am not talking about stupid stuff like forgetting to say "thanks you" and making the customer feel warm and fuzzy. I mean stuff like having displays that block flow of traffic, retarded ordering policies,
a coffee shop that does not offer sugar or milk because "They want their customers to enjoy the coffee as purely as possible." instead of you know offering these things so the customer can have the coffee as they WANT IT. ( true story).
A coffee shop that doesnt grind coffee beans for customers who want to bring coffee home to brew.
A pizza shop that doesnt sell by the slice.
etc.
>>1235970
Every field is over saturated.
>>1240392
I would consider being stuck in the office time worked. Honestly, in any career you don't actually work for 100% of the time you're in the office. What particularly sucks is that the work is often unpredictable. You could get a pitchbook or model back from an associate at some bullshit time like 8 pm and they want it in a couple hours. Sure you can screw around some, but at any given time something can blow up where you need to do something within 1-2 hours because the client needs it. The only good part (for me) was that you have more flexibility on when you can come in in the morning (relatively speaking). I have friends that work in S&T who need to be in the office as early as 6 or 7.
>>1235970
I'd bet everything I have that you're in your early 20s
>>1238887
You have lot's of free time, do you honestly call this hard work?.
>>1241769
wow those people sound like elitest fags at that coffee shop
>>1241723
>a company with 12 employees and a sales and communication budget of $0 (zero) complaining about lack of clients/orders
I swear I'm not making shit up
>>1236002
This is awesome, a shame to hear it didn't go your way. However a secure salary is not the way to acheive financial goals, unless your goals are to be a middle class tax-cuck up until and even after death.
>>1243169
Do you not understand residual and passive income?
>>1236057
This exactly. At least one anon in this thread actually knows something.
>>1235970
Yea, but it doesn't exist.
Every goddamn person who calls them self an entrepreneur is either
a wanna-trepreneur or feel like they're a special, precious little snowflake that is better than everyone else.
It's no different from cunts who have no notable hobbies, put 'hiking' on their profile because they know how to walk.
It used to not be synonymous with small business owner.
>>1243179
>passive income
It doesnt exist bb. The only people making money out of passive income are people who just talk about it.
>>1244371
It's a relative term dude. "Passive" income requires capital, knowledge, planning, maintenance etc whatever it may be. It's not that it requires NO effort, but it's more "passive" than scrubbing dishes for $8 an hour.
>>1237823
>Bloomberg just did a surver where they leaned Millenial generation is very afraid of failure, unlike the boomers and gen x ers.
>Bunch of millenials growing up in the pussified "participation award" era where there are no "winners" and "losers".
Just read that article.
Bloomberg does a great job of explaining why this generation is so afraid to take risk and create something as compared to the Boomers and Gen Xers.
Alot of it does have to do with the millenials having no character, not knowing how to lose and then get up and try again.
The millenials grew up in an era where "Everybody is Special!" and everybody is a winner and there are no losers.
This has in essence created a Sheltered, pampered generation that is afraid to try anything or take risk.
>>1244493
link?
>>1235970
The market balances itself out. Not everyone is cut out to run a business, and therefore if they try to run a business, it will fail. This will never be a real problem because if a business doesn't provide value to the market it won't exist, if it does it will thrive.
>>1235970
tl;dr take all your money and invest in a mutual fund.
i've never fancied the idea of being an entrepreneur cause quite frankly, unless you're producing top-of-the-line quality, which you won't as a small business, you're just gonna end up with cringe worthy marketing and a half-assed product.
i've always loved the idea of trading and investing though. so i'm thinking of convincing a bunch of foreign investors to invest in a small caribbean nation, cause real estate is gold here
>>1241723
>>1241759
i've also considered being a consultant. i have a natural tendency to walk into a small business and by the time i leave i have at least 3 things in mind of how i would improve the business. dad says it's not a waste of time and i just need to market myself, but that seems painfully hard.
>>1244493
not sure where you went to school but no one ever told me im special
>>1235970
The pyramids took thousands of peasants dying.
SpaceX took thousands of peasants trying.
I prefer the latter.
>>1246937
peasants didn't work the pyramids tho they were tending the fields.
Some of my friends are really self-directed and are the entrepreneurial types.
Some of my other friends would rather follow orders and help support those that direct themselves.
There's gonna be a support group for every few leaders, if they can build a friend group, or any kind of community environment that they can somehow use or create a business with/within.
The point is that those ideas and group without support may fail more often than those without support. Economy's version of survival of the fittest will work itself out.
>>1237823
>>1244493
link of article, pleaseee
>>1238887
>my mom brings me lunch to save time
My older brother just started a business of his own, he saved 20k euros to do so. And I am worried for him.
He started his own fish and tackle shop. Sure he has fished for the majority of his life.
In his business he offers lures he made from start to finish, as well as a service to get anything of a fishermans hearts desiure trough his shop.
For years he gathered possible customers, and now he is about to launch.
And I feel sick for him. Sure he offers a service where you can get your very own custom lure, sure he saved money for this and thinks that the money lost will only be a bonus in his resume in the future.
He guarantees our family that he has it all under control. Goddamnit.
Yeah sure he has a faithful following trough making lures, but still....
Should I try to make him call it quits
>>1248281
So...what's the problem?
>>1242095
>in any career you don't actually work for 100% of the time you're in the office
I'm a chef
I do.
>>1238887
I think eating modafinil makes even the most lazy person do stuff. Try doing all of this without being high on amphetamine like substances.
Im not afraid to admit i am a wantrapreneur...
i have qualifications to go back to my old physical job where i can earn 10k per month. yet now i am studying a masters without a BA.
one of the modules was EFB [entrepreneurship and family business] i am now obsessed with the idea to get the ball rolling on a project once my course is finished early 17'
anyone else still putting off starting something?
do you have a valid reason to not start tomorrow?
>>1248281
Lol what a strange, morose post. One would almost assume you wish your brother would fail for not being a beta faggot like you
>>1249376
I took the semester off to work on something with a friend. Well he dropped it, and the whole thing fell apart and I'm now realizing how unfeasible it is. Now I'm working (min wage internship) while living at home and saving money. I want to save up enough money to pursue something else. I'm almost at 1k in my account, never had this amount before. Succeed or fail, I want to take advantage of my time between now and next semester.
>>1249406
go for it mate, every attempt is an experience and unforgettable learning curve.
>>1236139
im original poster just different computer
well basically you do work out that all that time trying to plan a perfect business model, sales strategy, etc. is really all for nothing until you actually launch
my advice for anyone that wants to start up their own thing, just do it. don't overthink it. you learn more from the 'real life' experience rather than the behind the scenes stages. also dont take anything you learn/read at face value.
>>1243169
also an update, was looking at a full time position to start negative gearing properties and by the time i graduate uni be making six figures income from property alone
but ive decided to give it a break and really give my business a shot but more so that it revolves around my own needs rather than the contrary
good luck to all other /biz/nessmen out there
>>1249455
thanks anon. I will!
You guys are awesome, i could learn a thing or two from all of you
How do you find out whether there is a market for your product?
Computer science major here with no /biz/ background whatsoever. Specialized on machine learning.
I am too considering this, among other ideas. Could the experts give some input what would would be a good idea for a startup with this background?
I know NOTHING about business, but I do have a business proposition. From a practical standpoint, I am not "ready" to start this business. Before I make the complete leap from my current career and path (scientist), I'm not sure whether it'd serve me best to (1) spin my wheels at a tangential, entry-level part-time job or (2) devote 100% of my energy to launching the business with guidance from the local SBA and mentoring.
Advice?
>>1241682
I have a software product managed by my development and design company. We've also been contracted to work towards selling it as well - and we fucking suck at it. I feel you when you say you're nervous about marketing. My team makes a great quality product but we're not as good at selling it. My suggestion to you is find a PARTNER that is good at it. Find someone else that can market/sell don't do it yourself. It's worth giving up 50% equity if you can find the right person.
I know my company makes a damn good piece of software. But I've learned we can't sell it very well, it's not our competitive advantage. So now I know for the future, focus on making killer software, let someone else who is good at selling do the selling.
>>1245779
I also know this feel. But I've already started a business that is semi-successful which gives me credibility and a realistic way of thinking about things.
I'd say this is the best thing for you to do. Do a sample project or something for a friend/family member with a business for free to give yourself a track record and credibility.
Before you go into a meeting make sure you know at least 10% of the information available to you can act like you know exactly what you're talking about. pro strat :^)
>>1249567
Find a business partner that has the business and marketing knowledge to do what you can't. Otherwise, leave your current body and don't come back until you have 2-3 years of business knowledge and experience.
>>1237804
Holy cow to me that people are just brain dead and the more you try to reason with them the more I realize that they deserve being chiseled.
>>1235970
> looking for jobs
>every 2/3 job lists required skill: is an entrepreneurs, had already start his own business
>>1239933
Bullshit. So you're saying he sleeps half an hour between jobs assuming 0 travel time. More like your moms husband has a side bitch who he sleeps with from 0030 to 0600 am
