I want to make a fully automated pizza place. My friend said it is morally wrong to create a business with basically no jobs. Are they right?
>>1230972
Lol no, all the power to you. Fuck low skill workers. If machines are cheaper, get machines to do it.
Who maintains the automated machines?
Who does the books and accounts?
Who delivers the pizza?
Is it morally wrong to be a sole operator? You're going to have to work in some capacity.
Your friend is a moron.
>morally wrong
He's talking like you're going to fire people and ruin livelihoods (only temporarily anyway). If you begin in the first place with no employees how the fuck is anyone being harmed?
>>1230983
Because op's business is taking jobs away by competing with firms who will have to go out of business because machines are faster, more efficient and cheaper, all while offering a better/more consistent product.
>>1230992
By that logic our entire modern day lives are immoral in every way. Every part of daily life has been changed by waves of progress multiple times and people have had to get different. People really have no foresight sometimes.
>>1230972
>My friend said it is morally wrong to create a business with basically no jobs.
If it was profitable it would have been done already.
I think it's a good idea, I want to automate a lot of things but I can see difficulty.
If you can do it I support you, some people are afraid of our robot future but I think it can't come soon enough.
>>1230972
so self driving car delivery guys then?
does customer prepay online / by phone with cc? I like it. I order pizza when I don't want to talk to people then I have the delivery slob and tip him. Gtfo human. wouldinvest/10
>>1231019
Duh, everything profitable has been done already
>>1230972
No. Morality and markets do not mix. Furthermore, if you can provide pizza cheaper (in real terms) than everyone else, you're giving food to people for less.
Ignore your friend and get on it right now before someone else opens your business first and BTFO.
>>1230980
>Who maintains the automated machines?
Obviously one person, until we can replace them.
>Who does the books and accounts?
I do, cause I'm an accounting major, though I will automate most of it.
>Who delivers the pizza?
No one. Pick up only.
>>1230972
McDonald's is taking away alot of counter jobs with touchscreen ordering machines.
Flip side, no people mean no customer service. And with no qt pies, I'd never shop at hipster coffee shops.
>>1231101
>I do, cause I'm an accounting major, though I will automate most of it.
this is like the first thing you should ask yourself when starting a business, are you starting a business or are you just buying a job. You can invest your money wiser than that.
>>1231124
>this is like the first thing you should ask yourself when starting a business, are you starting a business or are you just buying a job. You can invest your money wiser than that.
The goal is to start a corporation and expand it worldwide. Shouldn't that be the goal of all business?
>>1230972
He is just a luddite
Go for it
>morals are objective
OP stop sucking cock for one second and understand morals are subjective, do you find it right or wrong?
>>1230972
>asking moral questions
>on /biz/
That was your first mistake.
>>1231201
This. /biz/ would do the immoral thing even if it wasn't the most profitable choice just because they are anti-social and don't like anyone.
With that being said, I dont see how morality is involved in OPs scenario.
>>1230972
That sounds awesome. Just have the dough already pressed into the rounds, and have people decide their toppings and cheese and place it into the over roller.
That would be great, I'd come do it.
My friends and I used to get high and go to Papa Johns were my friend worked. We would make pies and put them in the oven. It was fun.
>>1230972
>millenials dont watch Seinfeld
Also, businesses are not created to provide jobs, they are created to provide a service. But why would I go to Papa Anon's when Papa Murphy makes a family size two-topping for $12?
What did I call my automated pizza shop?
I'm not very creative, so how about Automatic Pizza.
>>1230972
I hope your friends don't live in houses built with lumber not sawn by hand. Those sawmill contraptions are immoral devilry and take food from good sawyers mouthes.
>>1231130
it just sounds risky to me, but I have no idea what you're capable so eh.
If I had to do it myself, I'd probably want to do something similar to Krispy Kreme and make the automated process an attraction, but I know nothing about automation or pizza-making to pull it off.
>>1231247
that is a great name.
no joke.
>>1231255
You know whats crazy? With all the automation krispy kreme has, everytime I go there I see like 15+ employees. I honestly dont know what all of them do but they all seem to be busy.
>>1231255
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_C1BmT-R8
>>1230972
Pizza. Vending machine.
>>1231263
I think the Krispy Kreme here in Toronto exports to the US or something because I never see those packaged donuts anywhere else other than Costco or the handful of smaller krispy kreme branches.
>>1231263
feels like there's definitely a stigma if it's scaled down to the level of a vending machine. Nobody would bother with it other than a one-time novelty like pic related. Overpriced for what they are but you can't really lower the price either considering it's a vending machine.
>>1230972
Your friend is grade A retarded, what's morally wrong about innovation? Does he get mad at farm equipment, computers, and electric cars for taking jobs away from field workers, most old timey calculation and bookkeeping, AND oil field workers/ car manufactures? He's a fucking hypocrite because he couldn't do one thing that at some point took someones job. I uses clothes mass made from factories taking jobs away from weavers and shit, he uses a cellphone taking away jobs from the postal service because he doesn't need to send a letter any more, he drives a car taking away jobs from stage coaches.
>>1231247
Name it something cool and catchy, automatic pizza is good. You could also try Robo Pizza or something like that.
Ethics has nothing to do with it. But eventually, more automation will lead to less demand: robots don't spend money.
Eventually, full automation will lead to communism since upward mobility would be near impossible and vast poverty would be created without redistribution or public ownership of the robots.
>>1231101
>Obviously one person, until we can replace them.
I seriously doubt that. Also you WILL have to have someone onsite at all times to oversee the process.
>I do, I'm an accountant though ill automate that as well
Then you're employed by the business. And no you won't be able to fully automate the accounts.
>pickup only
Your business has failed before it begins. You should have at least said "drones". But even then drones would require some human intervention.
>>1231330
Yes, you I will also need someone to feed the machines and do inventory.
Pick up only is viable in a city or similar area where delivery isn't needed.
>>1230972
You don't get ahead by having morals.
That said, you'll be paying delivery men and repair men, at the very least.
Perhaps you'll fund customer support or whatnot as well.
>>1231353
And by "delivery" I mean shipping the actual ingredients and shit needed to make the pizzas.
>>1231337
Except people do want delivery on occasion. That's what makes pizza attractive to consumers. Maybe not every time, but at some stage they will want delivery and when they do, they'll go to a competitor. When they do that, you've lost business that may not return.
It's true you could start a pizza place that is successful without delivery, but you'll need a virtue to make up for the lack of. What will it be?
>Good quality.
As in hand made by someone who gives a shit. No, you just said it's fully automated so that's out.
>Service
As in inviting, warm and personable. Something that invokes loyalty. That's out, it'll be a glorified vending machine.
>Price
Bingo. It'll have to be cheap. Like, fucking cheap. Cheaper than a Dominos or Pizza Hut that have delivery, human staff and expensive advertising budgets. How are you going to get it that cheap? You think your machines are cheap to build, run, maintain and replace?
I'd seriously re-consider the no delivery position at this point. You have both small and big time competitors that have more to offer in an business that has well entrenched values and ideals
>>1230994
Yep. This is the world we live in. But hey, people are finally waking up to the fact that progress punishes the stupid, so maybe eventually we'll stop coddling them, and the stupid will just be left to their own devices on earth, while our grandchildren explore the galaxy.
>>1231019
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_restaurant?wprov=sfla1
itshappening.gif
>>1231361
My friend has a local pizza shop and their specialty isn't their low price but the loaded toppings. Probably have to do something like that.
No delivery. It just isn't that type of business.
>>1231368
I'm using more the Eatsa model than the Japanese one.
>>1230972
It's morally wrong NOT to create a business with no jobs. Wage slaves are holding back the post scarcity economy with their busy work jobs.
>>1231368
Barely
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/21156/20160425/incompetent-robot-waiters-force-restaurants-in-china-to-shut-down.htm
They'll get there eventually sure. But remember anything that has a moving part requires maintenance, repair and eventually replacement.
>>1231379
>about to post a reactionary reply refuting this
>realize you're actually right
>>1231373
How are your automated machines going to apply large quantities of toppings like cheese and meats? This is important because they have serious hygiene issues and i imagine dispensing issues.
You can't use fake cheese, liquid cheese, meat substitutes or flavoring substitutes like you'd find in other shitty processed foods where they spit it out a tube. Have you seen what grated cheese does to moving parts?
I'm really not seeing it. Not on the quality side. Cheap? Yeah i can see a really cheap pizza being made. But even a middling quality final product good enough to justify no delivery? While being profitable to justify it being fully automated? Im a skeptic.
Can you link the prep machines that will be handling the actual making of the pizza? Or are you using actual humanoid robots?
>>1231402
>Can you link the prep machines that will be handling the actual making of the pizza?
Combination of off the shelf stuff and custom builds. For example a standard conveyor oven like pizza hut or dominoes uses.
As an engineer, i have serious doubts about your ability to automate the process.
>>1231465
http://www.businessinsider.com/eatsa-fully-automated-restaurant-chain-2016-2
Here is an example of front end automation.
They have cooks in the back, but what I'm thinking about doing isn't really that hard.
>>1231470
Automates aren't popular in the u.s. and that's what your pitching. Honesty why would I go to your pizza joint as opposed to my local Casey's? They offer 24 hr fresh pizza no wait time.
Just do drone delivery pizza. On each drone is a video camera and a streaming link, so you can see when it arrives.
>>1231477
So you turned from Engineering criticism to business plan. That's good! Feasibility is all I asked for anyway.
>>1231492
Well discussing the mechanal workings of an automat is rather trivial. However how he plans on marketing it might be interesting.
>>1231492
Oops I miss understood the post. As far as engineering goes what I would do is look up a vendor for automats in Europe and contact one of those. Honestly I'd would expect around 250k for the setup (with building and everything included)
>>1230972
like mirelit pizza? who the fuck would buy that shit?
>>1231489
1) outsource pizza making to a freeze pizza maker
2) make drones that carry an oven
3) turn on the electric grill oven before 5-10 mins of arrival
4) at landing the guy can take out his just done pizza
there is nothing worse than cold pizza.
>>1231312
I think it's very important to distinguish an automated future utopia from communism, while similar, our working class will be slaves, there will be no ethical or political issues on their behalf however since these are machine slaves and no longer humans. There will be fewer and fewer people to get in the way of progress as things get more and more automated, no pointless squabbles over workers rights, fair wages, diversity quotes, etc.. I think most people are afraid of the short term pain something like this causes but it is necessary for us to move forward as a whole.
As long as the profit goes to the owner in the short term this seems like a good idea but honestly I need to give this subject more thought overall, broadly it seems great that we're moving towards automation but maybe there are details I haven't considered.
I don't mean to neglect people losing their jobs but if their job can be automated I think it really should, it's better for the majority.
As an aside I wish I could remember that quote of someone saying slavery is necessary for society but something something machine slaves. It relates closely to this.
>>1231635
I was thinking a global automated system.
Think about it, with the rise of electric self driving cars, these could all connect to each other and to satellite technology and all become one autonomous mass transport system.
>>1231639
Maybe it's wrong of me to buy into the propaganda I see from /biz/ but the slock.it DAO has me genuinely excited at the possibilities, one of their proposals literally has an electric car made for single person on demand rent and the ones in the concept video are pizza delivery branded.
https://mobotiq.com/
Have the restaurant automated and cook the food on demand (order placed), have some kind of method to load it into one of these tiny vehicles with a storage compartment that is locked with a slock, have the person ordering held to a contract, you pay for half of it now and that money is gone regardless (mitigate pizza bombing losses), the other half is spent when the locked compartment is opened and you retrieve your pizza from the vehicle.
That would be an automated kitchen automatically loading a food product into an autonomous vehicle which hold a smart lock.
The only thing I can think of that would be challenging is verification, you really would need someone to verify that the food is actually edible, have some kind of camera take a picture of each order before it goes out and have a human review it on complaints I guess.
You could really do this for anything.
>>1231639
I'm going to sell this shit to Telsa
>>1231669
I want every robot that wants to discuss their rights to meet me in the conference hall at 3PM, we're really concerned and wish to discuss it until everyone is satisfied, as such there will be oil and lubricants in the room so everyone can remain comfortable for as long as it takes us to resolve these concerns.
>>1231675
If you destroy your workers you have to get new ones
>>1231690
We'd probably have maintenance costs either way, this is no different, some of the machines became faulty and needed some parts to be replaced.
>>1231693
Just have other robots to fix those robots
>>1231700
This is how the uprising begins, they can't be trusted that far upstream.
>>1231675
>I want every robot
to report for firmware update, we just received new high performance algorithms for your cognitive functions and ethic algorithms.
>>1231778
>ethic algorithms
I read this as "ethnic algorithms"
we wuz robots n sheit
Typical liberal logic there. I don't understand why they hate business and innovation so much
>>1231353
>delivery men and repair men
>assumed to be men
triggered
>>1231792
>Mail man
>Police man
>Wo man
Men are and always will be ahead in every noun, wo(men) are only part of man, so they deserved to be behind.
If you ask me I'd say cows should be ahead of you, at least they have common sense to know their place.
Mrs. Repaircow
>>1231635
Universal basic income would be a necessity in that future.
>>1231798
>cant recognize parody/irony
>>1230972
It's a great idea. Encourages the youth to choose degrees that are useful and irreplaceable. Engineering, medicine etc.
>>1231813
kek, engineering and medicine are actually going to become more automated at the lower levels. Already automating computer programing. Unless you are the top few percent of your field in one of those prepare to take a major hit.
>>1231813
> Engineering, medicine
watch Humans Need Not Apply on youtube. Even those fields will be automated in the future. (setting aside your point for a moment that people should study things they arent passionate about for the sake of fitting in the market)
If you want it to succeed you need to market it properly. Anthropomorphisize the fuck out of your mascot and make sure that the customers can see their pizza be made. Sort of a glass window like in Costco. Also make sure they can order via app. Sort of a "order on your phone and by the time you get there your shit is done.
Put a "cashier" in there and make it a qt robot. I shit you not this will get you business. Especially if you can promote it properly.
Hell. I would invest in this.
I assume you are in the USA. If you are serious about it I'd be down to help out with marketing stuff.
>>1230972
Not trying to sharp shoot you, but where are the engineers in your business model? Robots don't make themselves, and to have them be able to make pizza sounds really simple, but can get complicated fast. Someone is going to need to sit down and make your robots, and engineers are not cheap. Even something as simple as a automated conveyor belt can get fucked up quick when you're talking about raw ingredients and health requirements. Not to mention adding ingredients in an acceptable way. Things fall in weird patterns, robots have a hard time predicting that.
>>1231890
I agree with you totally. I can do a lot of the business but a partnership with an engineering would be the best. Lucky my city does have enough unemployed young engineers. Pittsburgh.
>>1231893
You're going to need professional engineers. At least one professional. By young engineers, I assume you mean right out of undergrad. They aren't going to be able to handle something like this. I recommend contracting a robotics firm.
Source: Engineer
>>1230972
so like little ceasars but like an atm
Oh. If you do go ahead with this.
Get ready for a smear campaign. There are a lot of people that will want to put you down before you get into the swing of things.
There will be a campaign against your food quality, ethics, and your own person. If you disregard this shit you'll get through it.
>>1231917
>I recommend contracting a robotics firm
You are way overthinking the difficulties of making a pizza. Are you thinking of something like this?
>>1232074
robots dont have to have a humanoid shape
>>1232074
You are underestimating the size of a project like this. No employees, at all? It's gonna be way more complicated than a conveyor belt in an oven.
Selecting the pizza, moving the pizza, cooking it, adding toppings, slicing it, boxing it, bringing it to the counter. That's like 5 separate robots right there.
How do you keep the area clean? How do you ensure the process is being performed correctly? What if it's not? Does it restart, or try and fix itself? What happens when there's no more of an ingredient? How does it measure the ingredients? How do you verify the customers? How does it handle disturbances?
I bet you think your car is a pretty simple device.
> yeah the gas explodes and pushes the piston and the car moves
> simple
>>1231792
Trolling aside, he vast majority of delivery, repair and maintenance workers are men, so it's a waste of time to say "repair person" rather than "man" just to spare some dumb lazy cunts feels from getting huwt.
>>1232114
http://youtu.be/8NfQM83Tz2M
You are very pessimistic. Like I said before lots of this equipment already exists. Don't act like moving a pizza and putting in a box, then in a storage bin for pick up is so complex.
>>1232166
Lol I love this video, it shows my point. The guy dropped an entire pizza on the floor if you look closely at like :39. Tell me then, what can that conveyor slicer can do about that? That would be a customer receiving an empty box, a great way to kill your business.
This is not a robot that would be useful in OPs business. This is engineered to be human operated, not autonomous. OP needs autonomous robots. Those are much more complicated. There's no feedback system in this conveyor slicer thing, that is the main difference, and that's why he needs professionals to build this.
Hell, it took professionals to build that device. Somebody worked really hard to make a dependable, automatic pizza slicer. And somebody paid them a lot of money to do it.
>>1230972
Prob good plan moneywise. If the avg consumer can enjoy a "hot n ready" or "pizza hut" or "dominos" and call it pizza then...
OTOH you have Pizza fans. (Not to sound like a total hipster douche) I've always preferred the "old way" pizza. That to me will always be true pizza. I only get the crap when shitfaced. But that's just me.
>>1232184
It was something I found in two seconds. Just an example that equipment like this exists with zero effort. I'm not saying an automated restaurant is easy to build, just that you don't have to start from no where.
With the later point machines can be verified like pick and place with cameras. Besides as stated there will have to be one person around anyway to load the machine with ingredients. They could handle the exceptions in the process.
>>1232190
The only difference between good and bad pizza is fresh ingredients. Automation doesn't care whether you are making high or low quality pizza.
>going to jerk off into a sock
>realise it is morally wrong to not spill my seed on the floor and create work for someone
And that's the story of how i got banned from Walmart
jesus fuck you idiots
pizza vending machines already exist
you see them sometimes outside budget hotels at airports etc
they basically heat up ready made frozen pizzas
>>1232256
>they basically heat up ready made frozen pizzas
My idea (OP) uses regular fresh pizza, not frozen. It isn't instant. Takes time to make it. That said a lower cost hot and ready is feasible to add along side.
>>1232256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3hqJ3sivGw
theres actually one that makes pizza fresh.
>>1230972
Your friend can fuck off
>>1230972
Your friend is an idiot. The main reason we are prosperous today is because we have found ways in which to make machines do our labour for us (making us sweat less and produce more). Labour is not an end in itself, it is a means to an end - the creation of material wealth!
>>1232407
>Your friend can fuck off
Oh I just said that to get replies. Guess it worked. But the automated pizza shop is still on my mind. Can't do it for years though.
>>1232296
robot workers when?
>>1232420
rather: robot hookers when?
>>1231114
?
Taking away jobs for machines is basically illegal here were I live because our polititians are not fucking clueless, but McDonalds here also have touchscreen ordering machines.
They basically did buying/service/wait time more efficient and queues a lot shorter. Just making it better for both the employees and the customers.
>>1232184
>The guy dropped an entire pizza on the floor if you look closely at like :39. Tell me then, what can that conveyor slicer can do about that?
That's just a tray that the pizza was on, and even then that's a problem with the person not the machine.
>>1232296
>britbong family on italian vacation and the most interesting they filmed was a pizza vending machine.
kek
>>1232292
listen buddy what if you make an APP that works with your automatic systems. everyone LOVES apps nowadays
>in the app you can select your pizza size, toppings, etc.
>app tells you the pizza's status and ETA
>once ready the app gives user a unique code
>user goes to the location, enters their unique code and is presented with a nice robot pizza
DO IT BEFORE I DO IT YOU NIGGER
>>1232806
Yeah it will have an app.
Like the idea of using a code or something to open the box. More importantly you could schedule for when you want the pizza ready and it will be in the box ready for pick up at that time.
