Ok business majors. You've thought about it. But it seems boring.
It's time for "Ask a Senior Accountant anything!"
I can tell you about recruiting, pay, and what to expect on a day to day basis.
>>1175533
Would ou say your potential to an hero is greater then average?
Can you just list ppyou hve a degree or do employers really look into your gpa?
how easy is it to pull office pussy?
>>1175533
How do you feel knowing you job will largely be automated in the next 20 years?
>>1175802
not OP but never pull office pussy. Yeah ofc the secretary want to suck ur dick because you are important AF and walk around in suit all day, but you're putting your career on the table for a mediocre BJ. Not even Bill Clinton could pull it off and he was the president of the USA.
>>1175533
Also how many $$ u get?
>>1175807
this will literally never happen until I, Robot tier AI exists, you don't understand accounting at all
>>1175809
It's okay to pull office pussy from above you though, it's her ass if she gets caught.
>>1175818
I did a second major in accounting and finance and a first major in computer science. Most of accounting can be automated.
>>1175533
Hey, I am in uni and I am having a very difficult time deciding between a specialist in public account or in finance & economics.
To my knowledge, public accounting just seems really boring and unrewarding for how much work you put in to learn it and how much you get paid out of it until you get to the senior levels/or become an auditor.
Finance just seem so much more appealing but it also seems to be a lot more competitive in terms of finding a job.
What made you choose accounting over the other business streams?
Also is public accounting really as bad as it sounds? My prof said it is boring as hell and most people transfer into private accounting to get paid more and live a more exciting life. Thanks for any advice!
how do I into VBA and excel? I already now Java. I'm a first year comp sci major btw.
>>1175826
lol no it isn't. You have the higher position, it's your professionality at stake.
>>1175839
I doubt you would want to automate auditing a Fortune 500's statements. LOL
That being said, bookkeepers will get BTFO by the robot cock.
How bad are the hours?
How much does big 4 treat you like cattle?
What's your branch? how do you feel about tax/audit/managerial?
How much do auditors get to travel?
>>1175807
Says the guy who doesn't know what accountants do.
>>1176013
>>1175982
Tell me a few things accountants do that cannot be automated? I know there is some decision making, but LARGELY the field can be automated.
And I'm a project manager for software developers making six figures in a low cost of living area at age 23, so go crunch numbers and feel high and mighty being an excel jockey.
>>1176043
And just to be clear almost all decision making can be done using algorithms, but sometimes it doesn't make financial sense to do so when you can hire some losers to do it.
>>1176043
lel. Do you know what SOX is? Guaranteed accounting jobs. Managers also rely on us for everything because they're fuckwit brownnosers who sucked cock instead of studying.
>>1176052
Acts can be repealed numbnuts once computers prove themselves to be more accurate.
And if your field is kept alive by legislative bureaucracy you should feel bad.
>>1176059
This argument was about if accountants will be needed or not; it wasn't about whether or not legislature will keep it alive.. Just saying.
also, are you assuming AI is in the near future? Because from what i've read, complete AI is still a figment of our imagination and i can't see it becoming a reality with our modern understanding of technology. Maybe with quantum computing, but that's still a ways away considering we're still trying to understand quantum physics.
Yes, basic accounting/bookkeeping will be automated. No, We're not going to rely on technology to consult and weigh in on what to do with all of its calculations.
All in all, learn accounting cause it's the language of business. Study finance because it teaches what to do with the information and there's much more room for growth.
>>1176104
But you don't need artificial intelligence - nothing needs to be learned here (the programmers will learn the new laws and implement the algorithms accordingly).
Almost all accounting can be boiled down to a yes/no decision tree.
>>1176104
Also I don't think you understand how computing works. We have enough computing power now to implement the basics of artificial intelligence, we just don't have the software to do it.
Quantum computing doesn't fix that problem.
>>1176109
Just dropping in to tell you you're a retard and have no idea what you're talking about.
>>1176117
How's that? I guess we would need to define artificial intelligence, because creating a sentient being is way off.
But how is creating a computer to automate decision making in accounting any different then what has already been done in another fields? It's just more complex with the laws constantly changing.
>>1176117
I've already worked on simple algorithms to automate healthcare credentialing decision making processes, I know it would work for accounting too.
>>1176109
Programmers will create these algorithms, sell them to corporations, and then the corporations will hire accountants and financial managers to read and provide insight into the numbers. Simple as that. I can promise you that the business world would rather consult with someone they can create connections with rather than a machine that just spews out vague yes/no answers. The world/business changes every single day and what i'm saying is that without nearly instantaneous computing the accounting profession will always be needed.
I think we're both agreeing that many of the basic accounting jobs will be lost, but there will always be a necessity for human knowledge to weigh in opinions.
>>1176059
>Acts can be repealed
AHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA you def don't know what SOX is.
You're stupid and I'm gonna laugh at you. Thanks, asswings. :^)
>>1176130
The answers are not vague yes/no answers though. The underlying decision making process relies on yes/no operations. Eventually the decision making done by the financial managers will also be automated, it will be a gradual process.
>>1176132
You can have software certified to verify the accuracy of financial statements. Once again, this will likely be a gradual process where software plays a bigger and bigger role.
I know your butthurt that you will slowly be phased out, but explain to me why I am wrong.
>>1176138
Who watches the watchmen? Hint: me.
>>1176104
AI, just needs a huge set of data to be trained on for making accounting decisions. If I had the capital I would start a company that would buy or collect large amounts of data on the accounting decisions the accountants made, and train it on an artificial neural network, in order for it to learn accounting decision making.
You guys may think that is some science fiction shit, but do you want to know the dirty little secret of A.I research? It is basically statistics and probability.
the point of A.I is basically to make the statistically best decision. In order for a program to know that it needs large data sets and then data scientist(meme word) using statistical magic and probability whilst offering human sacrifices to the spirit of Bayes, are able to turn this data into something a program can "digest" and learn from.
Back to my point, This company would be the company other companies outsource their accounting work to. To comply with SOX there would be one CPA who has confidence in the program, to sign off on all the SOX documents.
Why hasn't anyone done it, because the field of data science (cute buzzword) is obsessed with the other cute buzzword of social technology, so there are plenty of project using twitter to determine flu outbreaks and shit, but not enough in non-tech fields. even though the results are more applicable and interesting http://news.mit.edu/2016/prediction-tool-rogue-waves-0225
>>1176156
finally someone who gets it
What do you mean by senior accountant? Are you a senior in a public firm or is your title "senior accountant" in some private company? Tax, audit, advisory?
I'm a second year auditor going into TS soon. Audit is boring as fuck, but TS looks like more creative work and less hours for movie pay.
>>1176138
Actual finance consultant here. A lot of what we do is already automated. There are computer systems designed specifically to handle compliance for SOX, GLB, HIPAA, etc. These are not "one size fits all" systems, however. Due to the differing business models of publicly traded companies, these systems have to be custom built in order to conform to each specific company. I once scoped an internal control matrix for a corporation that was heavily into M&A so had 15 different operating companies all with different policies and procedures, not to mention 15 different accounting systems. The aim of SOX is not to tell companies how to run their business but to determine how they currently run their business then force accountibility. Meaning: if you say you are performing EACs on contracts worth more than $15 million then we want to see evidence retention with an executive signature of approval to prove that you really are.
In short, because of the ever evolving nature of compliance there will always be accountants required that can take the new laws and regulations and interpret them into key or mitigating controls that define how business processes operate. These accountants are also necessary to determine what form of evidence retention is needed for key controls and how GAAP is changing to determine business practices for standard controls as well. Since businesses all operate differently, no system can be devised that handles this process short of a fully functioning AI. There us software and hardware that facilitates our job, but none able to fully replace it.
>>1176156
The AI you are envisioning is a lot more complicated than you realize. There are millions of moving parts in just one company, let alone entire industries.
>>1176201
cheap accounting would be a good incentive for companies to standardize their accounting processes. Hell, they basically all use excel and SQL.
The issues you bring up seem quite simple, it seems like it is a question of linking the right documents to each other. The only reason accounting systems are such a clusterfuck now, is because they are created by accountants.
Imagine a standardized framework, that links compliance documents together, to the process they are needed, relational databases have been around forever. this is not insurmountable.
>>1176156
Then why can't AI take other jobs over? No more doctors, no lawyers, just install health or law software. Hell, they can design buildings and shit, too, design the roads and fuck, let 'em write the laws and make the investments and manage the companies, let 'em cook the food and give massages and build the houses. They can teach the kids, too, kids love ipads and a robot won't diddle them. Let trash trucks drive themselves and collect it themselves. Automate all the factories and the stores. Have little robots serve the food.
With your logic, there is literally no job that is safe from automation.
>>1176156
You don't really understand what auditors do.
You're really thinking about bookkeeping, which auditors really don't give a fuck about. Once you get to the caliber of a Company rich enough to afford the Big 4 for it's audit, most of it's bookkeeping is fine, unless the controller is full retard.
Auditors are more concerned with the decisions being made by management, and the pressures being exerted by the shareholders/BoD/parent company that will lead to the HUMANs to do something wrong. Nobody thinks Oracle will fuck something up horribly unless the IT department/consultants didn't do their jobs properly, which they most definitely would at such a large company.
Accounting requires judgement for things like
>Auditor: Hey why is this fixed asset being depreciated at X years? (Depreciation can be used to manipulate earnings across periods)
>Management: Well, uhm we've been doing it this way for years
>Auditor: Well, this model you just added has Y-new Technology, which is said to improve the lifespan of Z-type fixed asset by # years. As such, you should be depreciating this new asset at T years rather than X. Unless, of course, you have your own reasoning for keeping it X years?
>Management: Well, you see we actually use it for a certain purpose wherein we are required by legislature to use this type of equipment for X years, and we can't use it for T years even if we wanted to.
>Auditor: blah blah blah
>Management: blah blah blah
Your AI would be required to have reasoning abilities, the ability to read and comprehend contracts flawlessly, speak to humans, perform assessment of management character/workplace environment and whether it encourages ethical practices, etc...
Numbers really have little to do with auditing, as >>1176196 alluded to with his explanation about controls.
>>1176215
It's true.
It's already happening. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/computers-should-make-more-decisions-in-the-nhs-instead-of-doctors-jeremy-hunt-says-a6679966.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-machines-burger-robot-2014-8
Tablets are already in classrooms helping teachers.
They can design buildings and roads.
Lawyers are special because personality is more important.
No job really is safe from automation. I know it sucks, but it's the future.
>>1176223
see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_learning
>>1176213
Accounting processes are already standardized under GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles). It's not accounting systems that are all over the place, it's how each individual company does business. In fact, most Fortune 500s use Hyperion which is an automated financial management software developed by Oracle. You are under the impression that the deficiency lies in financial software. It doesn't. It lies in the fact that businesses have different controls due to the different ways they run their business. Trying to use a computer program to determine how a businesses policies and procedures affect every single operation would be like trying to use one to determine how an individuals personality affects all their actions. There are so many variables in play that if there was an AI that powerful, it would be able to replace every job, not just accounting.
>>1176223
This.
>>1176227
Then we're all fucking fucked and automation doesn't apply in particular to accounting any more than anyone else. Unless the world is gonna burn to the ground and we all turn into cannibals, there's gonna be a solution made.
In short order, either we're all fucked or we're all fine because everyone is in the same boat. The thread is pointless.
>>1176255
not me - I create algorithms
>>1176228
Machine learning doesn't do anything if the machine is reading false information.
>>1176265
So does skynet.
>>1176279
>what do you mean?
You're assuming the AI will be reading correct input. This is not not necessarily the case, and auditors will also test this. What you're proposing should be automated by AI is already automated by ERP solutions, and usually customized for for each individual company by their IT department or some outside consultant. This is a non-issue. The issue lies between the keyboard and chair.
>>1176287
You can cross reference data sources and use other various error checking algorithms that can do a lot of this.
>>1176298
You don't cross check a one of a kind contract, anon. That's not how business works.
>>1176043
"How much is" Said the client "two plus two?" Replied the co-operative accountant "How much did you have in mind?"
Accountants are professional musical chairs players, but there is in reality never any less chairs, they just stack them on top of each other, turn them around, convince you there are in reality three more but you just can't see them but they're totally there, like for real and occasionally build pyramids from them.
Occasionally you see an accountant be so adep that he makes a copy of Mona Lisa with shit stained moldy plastic 1$ chairs.
If you think accounting is no big deal and can be even mostly automated, you probably shouldn't be investing at all, Anon. Because most likely your stock picks are shit and you fall for every single Goodwill and Tangible Assets ball juggle that ends up showing a 150% return per every dollar of return. I can picture you sitting on the Shitstained chair Mona Lisa bragging on an Estonian Sour Cream Connoiseur Convention, Anon.
>>1176298
>just write an algorithm
Said every programmer ever. You guys cant even solve p vs np let alone automate a job that isnt completely menial to begin with.
>>1176332
>>1176301
Have 2 people enter it in. Scan it and use OCR or machine learning to parse it. Yes that's far out - but it's possible.
>>1176332
Most programmers are shit. And if you're so smart solve p vs np and get a million dollars. Plus - A lot of NP hard problems can be estimated to a point that is acceptable. See google maps and the traveling salesman problem.
>>1176362
Actually that's not a good example, but anyways people can estimate the traveling salesman problem very well.
>>1176223
>Auditor: Hey why is this fixed asset being depreciated at X years? (Depreciation can be used to manipulate earnings across periods)
>Management: Well, uhm we've been doing it this way for years
>Auditor: Well, this model you just added has Y-new Technology, which is said to improve the lifespan of Z-type fixed asset by # years. As such, you should be depreciating this new asset at T years rather than X. Unless, of course, you have your own reasoning for keeping it X years?
>Management: Well, you see we actually use it for a certain purpose wherein we are required by legislature to use this type of equipment for X years, and we can't use it for T years even if we wanted to.
>Auditor: blah blah blah
>Management: blah blah blah
if that is the threshold A.I needs to pass in order to replace auditors, the future for auditors is pretty grim
that is literally the manager adjusting the setting on this certain asset. Companies will still need CFO's and some accountants to manage and monitor the system so the managers don't fuck it up, but they won't need so many pencil pushers.
>It lies in the fact that businesses have different controls due to the different ways they run their business
what is to stop the companies from conforming to an efficient widely used accounting system that interfaces well with the accounting A.I system? The A.I system is not a one size fits all, it can be customized, for different companies.
>>1176528
>if that is the threshold A.I needs to pass in order to replace auditors, the future for auditors is pretty grim
It's a simple example because you probably know nothing about actual technical issues. Obviously it's a little more complex in reality compared something you cover in general requirement accounting 101.
This thread is cancer holy shit. Further proves that accountants are autistic retards that should probably be put down.
>left an 80k/year job auditing the health care industry to avoid putting a bullet in his head and now works as a plumber
>>1175533
Here's all that needs to be said: Accountants + Enron = The Shit Hitting the Fan
>>1176563
>staying in audit
You're doing it wrong.
Go into private, move to a better department, or you better fucking love audit to stay in audit beyond senior/manager.
>>1176308
Finance grad here. Where should I look to learn better accounting skills?
>>1176043
Systems accountant here. I automate all this. Ask me anything
ITT: a bunch of IT morons think they understand business or finance
L
>guys guys lets just create artificial intelligence that can do all the problem solving and reasoning that humans can do!
>its that easy!
>>1175533
How did it feel to fail actuary exams and settle for accounting?
>>1176682
Accounting is logical. It is possible to automate it to a certain degree. Someone will always have to create the allocation models and oversee consolidation however.
>>1175807
Retarded comment. Accounting is already an extremely automated field even in internal audit. Accountants have used financial systems for quite a while now. Where have you been? What are you going to tell us next, that payroll is going to be outsourced? Bravo genius, you are so ahead of the times.
>>1176675
Ar you concerened abiut being replaced by 3-4 cheapmforeigners? Computers?
Basic accounting degree?
Future job security?
>>1176707
This is actually true. We only have 5 people in our accounting department overseeing 10 billion in assets because of automation.
Like I said though, we have people just for allocations, profitability, systems, investments and consolidation. We do outsource audit though, I guess that could add a few more people in reality.
>>1176710
No, they will always need a systems guy.
Especially one that can create quality. You can always outsource, but the quality always suffers--or you end up paying too much for the product when you could hire someone.
Last time we outsourced just one piece of the models, it cost $1 mil. Much cheaper to hire someone to become an expert on it.
>>1176715
Thats good to know
>>1176711
Actually, not entireally true.
We do have 2 accounts payable specialists. You'll always need those as well because it takes a human to look over the invoice to make sure it is okay to pay.
Again you could outsource this, but it's not worth it because of the cost.
One of them does specialize in facilities as well.
Including the outsourced audit team and all of us hired internally, I would estimate it is about 15 people max for 10 billion in assets.
That's pretty good in my opinion. Of course, 10 bil is nothing these days. I'm curious to know how other companies like BAC and JPMorgan operate with 1 trillion in assets.
>35 ACT in high school, but profound psychiatric baggage
>accepted into Chicago, stayed public in-state because of money and anxiety
>pre-MBA marketing management
>totally strike out, hate my classes, 3.05 after semester 3
>go back on medication, get into serious car accident, have "moment of clarity"
>switch to neuroscience w/ pre-medical in november 2015, have a cakewalk 4.0 for spring 2016 so far
>begin to realize that I could have been working through the best business program in the country (and surviving) if I didn't have brain problems
okay, so if I don't get into an elite medical school (which, assuming the 4.0 doesn't last forever or I have a shoddy MCAT or this wave of manning up turns out to be fleeting), how much am I fucked?
>>1176707
Not sure how true your comment on audit is though.
We're public, and there's no way we could go to the SEC or our investors and say our audit team is automated. The account systems can be automated, but you would want humans auditing it if you're public.
Also, the cost of auditing isn't insane in comparison to some other accounting products, so using EJ for example is financially sound
>>1176733
Fixed assets really are not applicable for SOX. It's the revenue process that will bring the most scrutiny for governance. Your average F500 with a few billion $ in revenue per fiscal year has an internal audit department about 15 deep and a total finance crew of about 30 at corporate and half of that at each main offices/opcos depending on the services they provide. Its not a ton because of the volume of publicly traded companies it adds up since you add external audit to the mix. You would be surprised but the unemployment rate of accountants is actually very low.
>>1176745
You're thinking of external audit. Two totally different things.
>>1176747
We don't look at fixed assets for SOX, we look at it for profitability and responsibility accounting. Therefore it is ideal to have someone who can specialize in allocations and facilities so we know how profitable we really are.
We don't sell products per se, so it can get difficult to determine how profitable we are.
>>1176752
True, but ideally you would want them both concrete. Even as a systems guy, I don't like internal audits being automated. We have things to check on for internals that is less scrutiny than external, but I'm comfortable we have both bases covered.
>>1176756
I just never heard anyone relate the size of audit team/cpas to assets before. It just seemed like a really weird correlation to make instead of revenue.
>Even as a systems guy, I don't like internal audits being automated.
Internal audit is mostly automated already. It just makes more sense to have a system keeping track of remediation instead of people. At the end of the day, IA is there mostly just to collect evidence and change control wording as the business evolves. They are there for system maintenance more than anything. Risk management is mostly responsible for the real decisions, not internal audit.
>>1175882
>how do I into VBA and excel? I already now Java. I'm a first year comp sci major btw.
Don't do VBA in excel, do VBA in Access, that is what I do, way more fun and interesting.
>>1176144
The coastguard?
>>1176156
Have you ever seen an Accounting GAAP or Tax Standards book? They are like 5 inches thick and 9 size font. I work as Accounting/MIS and I do a lot of automation for my large accounting firm. There are so many different directions you can take the numbers there is a reason no one has tried to write an algorithm yet. And as we all know as programmers once the dataset gets really large and the algo becomes more complicated the greater the likelihood of bugs. Just because you fully automated a billionaire's return and there is a bug that cost him a couple million dollars, you think he will come back to file his return? Hell no. Accounting will become more automated in the future for sure, but just as the economy changes so will the role of the accountant.
>>1176675
What accounting software should I learn if I want to remain relevant despite high automation?
I've seen SAP and Oracle Hyperion mentioned in a lot of job ads. Anything else, or do you do custom software?
>>1176805
As other people have said in this thread, accounting is already as automated as it is going to get, save a sophisticated A.I. coming along that can rationalize better than humans (this is still sci-fi territory). The only places where you will see less automation is smaller companies which don't have the same budgets as larger companies do to pay for expensive financial software. With that being said, if you were to learn Hyperion, you would always be able to find work. Oracle is always front line when it comes to enterprise software.
>>1176768
We may be in a different industry where you are not familiar.
Our system is not IA, but rule based. Coming back to my point, I don't think IA has a place in accounting since it is procedural in my experience. I would not trust a system based in IA, but that's just me.
>>1176805
Oracle/MS SQL/VB with VBA for Excel
You could learn a priority software that is the accounting system. You would be indispensable but very niche specific.
>>1176859
>Our system is not IA, but rule based. Coming back to my point, I don't think IA has a place in accounting since it is procedural in my experience. I would not trust a system based in IA, but that's just me.
None of what you just said makes any sense. Stick to systems, bro.
>>1176859
>VBA for Excel
I know other programming languages, and am thinking about getting into VBA, but I wonder: How important is it for me to know the most commonly used language in industry vs. say Python that is more powerful but none of my coworkers will be able to extend or even keep running without my assistance? I know this is specific to a company culture, but just generally what do you think about using something non-standard in the industry?
>a priority software that is the accounting system
What is this? I don't understand.
>>1176255
>Then we're all fucking fucked and automation doesn't apply in particular to accounting any more than anyone else.
Information security auditor here, now you're getting it. I started in finance, wrote settlement processing algorithms for an F F500 financial institution; moved over to information security because it's the only area of audit that won't be easily automated in my lifetime.
SOX auditing is a joke, financial auditing is already largely automated, and the only people doing something a computer couldn't are the ones building the algorithms that control the flow of processing, and the ones answering phone calls from irate bigwig customers. Everything else is gonna slowly get automated as labor becomes cheaper and machine learning technology more ubiquitous. The Internet of things has already shown to be a huge benefit to machine learning in the vast majority of fields.
All the accountants sputtering about their necessity can't see the forest for the trees. We've been automating the logging, monitoring and auditing process for years; you really think we can't figure out how to use all that compiled data to help build automated decision making?
>>1176884
>moved over to information security because it's the only area of audit that won't be easily automated in my lifetime.
IT audit is already mostly automated. It is actually more easy to automate compliance for IT than Finance because it mostly has to do with data retention, backup servers, encryption of sensitive information and disaster recovery. Finance auditors outnumber IT auditors by a landslide.
>>1176710
>Ar you concerened abiut being replaced by 3-4 cheapmforeigners?
Sure, but it's unlikely. More likely to get replaced by a big 4 once you've built the automation/auditing tools.
>Computers?
Someone's always needed to run the computers.
>Basic accounting degree?
Not if you intend to do technology. Accounting is relatively easy, don't waste your degree in it. Study something challenging like computer science or informatics or crypto. Accounting is established principles that can be easily calculated by a machine, the real challenge moving forward will be building the automated decision-making built off of the accounting models.
>Future job security?
Again, someone is going to have to work the computer or build out the algorithm. Then, most companies will build in at least some form of manual testing/red team testing. Those types of jobs probably won't go away during our lifetime, but will become highly specialized.
>>1176887
True, but information security still requires auditors for implementation projects and oversight for cybersecurity operations. Yes, there are fewer of us, but I'll never be out a job; my industry is woefully understaffed, and is expected to fat outpace qualified applicants in terms of growth over the next ten years. There may be more financial auditors right now, but that's just because the cost of automation hasn't come down enough to replace all of them yet.
>>1176662
I stay away from companies with too adept accounting. I don't get it and I don't even attempt it, because from my experience it never leads to anything good. Embelishing and toning the numbers is normal, but straight up Hardcore Sixth Dimensional Wormhole Musical chairs is something that usually does smell fishy and leads to nothing you can't count me out of. At some point the management starts buying their own bullshit.
Mostly by learning accounting and reading books like "Fooling Some of the People All of the Time". Just go through what adept accounting looks like and you can after that recognize it slightly better. I would still just plain stay away from companies that practice it, things like Allied, the fact people knew Madoff had enlisted an unknown two person accounting firm to handle the business rang alarm bells for some people and they didnt invest. Some people knew this and didnt care. Adapting the mathematical concept of imaginary numbers for use in the business world is impressive but not impressive enough for me to want to be a part of it.
>>1176870
It sounds like you're fresh out of college. It's okay, with more experience you'll start to get it if you keep an open mind.
>>1176873
VBA for excel is very important. You will most likely come into a company that wants to automate their spreadsheets to some extent, and it's a great selling point.
I meant "proprietary" software. You can learn one accounting system, but then it can be very niche. But you'll get paid.
>>1176890
Agreed. I'd do a combo of accounting an IT if I were to do it all over again.
>>1176900
>There may be more financial auditors right now, but that's just because the cost of automation hasn't come down enough to replace all of them yet.
The reason that there are more financial auditors is that there are more financial processes than IT processes. An average fortune 500 usually has around a few hundred controls around revenue, human resources, payroll, legal, indirect expenditures, tax, fixed assets, etc. but only around 30 for information technology. IT is just one business process among many, and a small one at that. As far as automation, both inhouse finance and IT audits are mostly automated (equally). There is no further automation that can be done, save a computer advanced enough to define an entire business procedure, analyze it to the point where a control can be created to ensure compliance to new rules and regulations, test the control based on specific criteria from a risk management perspective and then be able to explain how the evidence retention is sufficent enough to an external auditor. It is unrealistic at best. You have to take into account that businesses are not only completely different from each other but that they evolve and change the goalpost for policies and procedures often.
>>1176905
>it sounds like you're fresh out of college. It's okay, with more experience you'll start to get it if you keep an open mind.
No seriously. Stick to systems. Your ignorance about finance is really obvious. Not even one single thing you said about internal audit makes any sense at all. You cant just mumble something about your system not being internal audit but rule based. What does that even mean? It's complete nonsense.
>>1177308
>I'm saying the decision making part you do will be automated too.
Having a finance degree you should agree that CPAs, that are not part of upper management, make very litte actual decisions. They are there to verify the accuracy of earnings reports and financial statements after the financial system compiles all the data. Due to regulations, multiple people are required to sign off on earnings reports so that the company can't shift accountibility. This is called segregation of duty. Even in just a strictly practical sense, accountants are a failsafe against inaccurate reporting and fraud.
The other aspect of accounting has little to do with numbers, as mentioned previously in this thread. It is the job of internal auditors to keep abreast of financial regulations and general business practices and ensure that businesses are operating efficiently and compliantly. This sometimes involves redefining entire policies and procedures which have company-wide implications. This also involves monitoring and policing process owners to make sure that if there are any control deficiencies, that they are addressed and remediated. They are there to make sure that when the external auditors perform their audit that the company does not fail and get shut down by the SEC. It's actually a very necessary job.
A senior accountant is in the office of his CEO late one night. He is opening files and drawers on the CEOs desk. In one drawer he finds $500,000 in cash. The accountant gasps! What should the accountant do?
Easy: Credit sales; debit cash.
>>1176933
By rule based I meant procedural in the system. You have a few main development philosophies, object orientated and procedural are some of them.
I guess it was my fault using systems jargon. I think we would work well together if we knew what each other meant.
>>1178257
Oh no. I perfectly understand tech jargon and completely know what OOP is. I used to be a tech writer and now work as a developer for financial systems. I'm not an accountant or finance consultant like others in this thread or the anon you were responding to. That's when you said "I would not trust a system based in IA" I was scratching my head because internal audit is just a subset of accounting. I'm just not so sure you fully understand finance to be responding to this thread with such confidence.
>>1177360
Ok. That makes sense. Thanks for typing out such a well thought out reply.
Would you recomend an accounting minor for an aspiring actuary
>>1178761
It really depends where you see yourself moving in your career, but accounting and risk management go hand in hand. In my opinion, it would be tougher to eventually make a vertical move in to upper management without at least some sort of accounting background.
>>1178686
Glad that I could help.
Whats with all the CS babbies? if you can automate accounting then CS will be long gone by then.
My gpa is pretty shit 2.5444... How should I go about finding a job? I'm networking but everyone I'm talking to says "get that gpa up" but other than that I make good impressions and can shoot the shit. I believe I have a part time internship this summer and have worked since 16 so have good resume other than grades
Any tips?
>>1179674
dude. get that gpa up. it's 2016. you can't just graduate into success anymore.
>>1176043
>And I'm a project manager for software developers
literally 21st century meme job
