How will this impact businesses in California do you think?
What do you think we will see in terms of businesses who are able and mobile to move their workforce or industries elsewhere?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-minimumwage-idUSKCN0WW25S
>Increased total cost and marginal cost for businesses
>How will this impact businesses?
jesus dude think before you post
If people make more money, then they spend more money. That's what drives the economy, lol. Fuckin Republicans such dumbass.
>>1171171
>Less tipping (why do you think you need a tip when you make that much)
>More restaurant closures
>More part-timers so they don't have to pay medical
>More automation so they don't have to pay workers in the first place
>If you're a full-time minimum wage worker, you'll feel good
>>1171187
Then why don't we like make the minimum wage 1 million dollars. Then the economy would amazing right berniefriend?
>>1171180
Liberals claim that this is just bogus economic theory that doesn't actually affect businesses and the market will become healthier with it.
It really is a good thing to allow the super liberal states to run their own experiments.
We saw how well gun control worked, lets see if they're wrong about this too
At the very least, we can finally end this argument on raising the minimum wage with real data
>>1171180
I can, but I found it outrageous this wasn't mentioned in any relevant board (/pol/, /biz/), even though it will have huge impacts.
Thus why I created a thread for discussion, mang.
>all of these faggots who took econ 101 and don't quite understand equilibrium pricing
>they did pick up on "surplus labor"
>didn't follow it up with labor economics to understand that the econ 101 demo of what happens when labor prices go up is actually bunk in the real world
You've probably heard the expression that a little knowledge is dangerous.
It's a price floor on the cost of unskilled labour above its free market value.
It will create a surplus, ie. unemployment.
It will also encourage businesses to invest more in capital than in labour and drive them towards automation.
>>1171208
shut up you dumb faggot, minimum wage exists solely to ensure a living wage to every worker. $8 an hour is not a living wage anywhere in America save for maybe West Virginia or the slummiest of inner cities
tl;dr kill yourself you dumb faggot
>>1171171
This is a well done credit card.
>>1171287
See this faggotry? This is exactly what I mean. Straight out of econ 101.
>>1171322
anon isn't wrong, minimum wage increases cause unemployment to increase among 16 - 24 year olds
>>1171171
I live in CA and I'm all for it even though I don't make minimum wage. Raising minimum wage drives up other jobs wages. I make about 50k a year and this should eventually drive it up to 60k. It also raises unemployment but I'm not worried since I'm indispensable in my current position.
>>1171322
http://www.businessinsider.com/carls-jr-wants-open-automated-location-2016-3
>>1171314
>minimum wage exists solely to ensure a living wage to every worker
You do know how businesses run, right anon? Some workers will make $15, some will be fire. Some companies will even move to other states to escape this shit.
God, go post about bernie on facebook or something you underage b8.
>>1171358
nothing to do with bernie, I like Trump, just calling you out for being an ignorant tool. Minimum wage was created to make sure people make enough to survive
>>1171361
& those jobs are for people who are in high school or college and need some side cash. Minimum education/intelligence = minimum wage.
I would love to take the IQ of all the workers in these positions (minus the people in school) and average it out. The city i live in cant find enough qualified people for positions... There's financial positions opening up every single day, and they stay open for months because there isn't enough people kek. seriously tho, go post on facebook.
>>1171361
>just calling you out for being an ignorant tool
1. Wasn't my OP, dumbass. Look at tag
2. democrats favorite word. "ignorant" go masturbate to clinton literature plz
>>1171196
>More part time so they don't have to pay medical
but then the $15 per hour won't help much will it? All those minimum wage workers will have to buy their own medical plans for a premium (oh, and you can't opt out of it because Obamacare) so actually that might hit em with a net negative and they will take home even less money since most of the shit medical plans out there are around 200 bucks a month. And that's the shitty plans...
Fuck California man.
Any point in finishing college now? I mean I'll be making the same as a dishwasher
>>1171411
No, you'll just make more money too.
>>1171423
its like magic or something. when you raise hourly wages for 2% of the population, the other 98% get huge pay increases because their boss sees it "isnt fair"
>>1171379
Full time Cali college student working min-wage part time. I made so little that I wasn't even penalized for not being covered. $12k taxable.
I really need to move somewhere mid-west.
The minimum wage is always going to be $0. If a company can't get more than $15/hour worth of value out of an employee it won't hire them.
Things you can be certain of:
>Higher production costs will get passed on to consumers. Things are going to get more expensive.
>Choices are going to be reduced as less companies find it economically viable to compete in various spaces.
>The amount it costs for a "living wage" will go up, meaning in a few years people will be crying that the minimum wage needs to be increased again
>Blame will be put on "the big businesses" for A) Driving smaller local competitors out of the market B) Not creating "enough" jobs and C) Not paying enough taxes or whatever to fund all the social welfare those unemployed people need
>Higher percentage of the workforce will be making minimum wage
>Higher unemployment for: Minorities, women, the uneducated, the disabled, etc.
>>1171269
Supply and demand is debunked in the real world? What?
>>1171562
>Blame will be put on "the big businesses"
I never get this. Raising minimum wage is the public actively putting pressure on small businesses, not big ones.If raising the minimum wage raises unemployment, its the fault of the people that voted to raise minimum wage.
>>1171171
Here in Australia the min wage is higher. Shit teir jobs just become harder, and pushed to do more work as employers need to get more worth out of employees. It will make it harder to get and keep your jobs, but it will be better once you get one. I reckon it will take a year for your workforce to adjust to it, then it will be like nothing ever changed as far as the consumer and management is concerned.
>>1171562
>Higher production costs will get passed on to consumers. Things are going to get more expensive.
This will happen but the costs will be spread across all income brackets so the minimum wage earners will still be better off.
>Choices are going to be reduced as less companies find it economically viable to compete in various spaces.
And more choices will be added as companies rush to take advantage off the new markets formed by the newly "wealthy" min wage earners.
>The amount it costs for a "living wage" will go up, meaning in a few years people will be crying that the minimum wage needs to be increased again
The costs will not increase 1:1 with the minimum wage. And once again the effects will be spread through the entire society, so the minimum wage earners still benefit.
>Blame will be put on "the big businesses" for A) Driving smaller local competitors out of the market B) Not creating "enough" jobs and C) Not paying enough taxes or whatever to fund all the social welfare those unemployed people need.
And perhaps rightfully so. Larger business are much much more efficient. The require less employees and pay less local fees/taxes than small businesses for the same amount of commerce. This has obvious negative effects on local economies and governments.
>Higher percentage of the workforce will be making minimum wage.
I would like to know where you draw this conclusion from and if you think that this is inherently bad?
>Higher unemployment for: Minorities, women, the uneducated, the disabled, etc.
So on one hand this is obviously just a more efficient labor usage. Since White men are or are at least perceived to be more productive.
Are you for or against the minimum wage increase?
Do you think these trade-offs are worth the increased purchasing of the lower class?
>>1171590
You are given the option today between opening a business in California and opening a business anywhere else in the country.
Which do you choose?
>>1171314
it is a living wage though.
you can have your experiment, but the same people will be whining at 15/hr. yeah some people get exploited because they never learned how to do anything, but that's the reason everyone else gets to live so well. if you think 15/hr will end the exploitation you're a fucking retard.
>>1171736
The minimum wage should increase with cost of living and inflation. Far fewer people will complain with a $15 minimum wage. And you seem to be in favor of some people getting exploited.
Wouldn't some of the raise be offset by Bernies proposed tax hikes
It's just giving the government more money and power to spend as they please
>>1171361
>Minimum wage was created to make sure people make enough to survive
but it can't ensure that. it only ensures that people whose labor isn't worth $15/h will make nothing
>>1171590
>And more choices will be added as companies rush to take advantage off the new markets formed by the newly "wealthy" min wage earners.
Companies are free to pay their employees $15 (or more!) right now. Why don't they do that if it's so good for business?
At the risk of sounding trite, explain to me in logical terms why we can't just pay everyone a trillion dollars an hour? That should really get the economy going right? You can say that wage inflation is only good "up to a point" but what point is that exactly? If $10 isn't it, why is $15 enough? Why not $20? Why not $50? Why not a million?
Knowing full well that mandating increased wages will introduce some combination of increased inefficiency in employment and increased prices how does one determine, in concrete mathematical terms, what a "living wage" is and why are we prohibiting people from working for less than that if they would otherwise be willing to work for that? How are these people clearly living on less than a "living wage"?
>>1171171
Commifornia has businesses?
Am I in bizarro world?
>>1171830
>How are these people clearly living on less than a "living wage"?
Working 75hrs a week to pay rent, side gigs, dealing drugs, theft and robbery.
>>1171836
>Working 75hrs a week to pay rent, side gigs
They clearly like where they live enough to do this. Why is this such a problem that we should outlaw it? Should people not be allowed to work extra hard to get things they want or live where they want? Or were you implying that everyone who wants to live somewhere (anywhere I suppose) should be able to afford it because reasons?
>>1171841
>what if people want to work 75hrs to survive instead of working, say, 45 hours and maintaining the same lifestyle?
Do you actually know anyone like this? Also nothing would be preventing them working the same amount of hours and taking on side gigs.
>>1171841
>Or were you implying that everyone who wants to live somewhere (anywhere I suppose) should be able to afford it because reasons?
Also no, I just think the lower end of society needs a hand and so we should give them one, and think increasing min. wage could well be a part of that.
>>1171847
>Gimme dat
It all becomes clear now.
>>1171358
Living wage, nah that's a new term.
It was meant as the minimum wage to buy recurring expenses like food. It wasn't meant for shelter.
The most expensive things in the world are space and time.
Why would employers buy for you one of the most expensive things in the world.
man, imagine being someone who worked their way up to 13-15 $/h through hard work and taking on additional responsibility
and in a few months someone who dips battered chicken into oil will get paid more than you starting
>>1172054
Another thought:
Isn't the key issue here underemployment, not low wages?
Even Wal-Mart starts you at $10/h. It's just that they'll work you as little as possible to avoid overtime, benefits, etc.
Won't we see hours fall even further when they are legally mandated to raise wages 150%?
What are some current 15$/hour jobs
30k/year btw
Small business will go out of business
Big business will take the hit and then raise prices once all the small business is gone
>>1171314
>feelings, the post
>>1171562
Why can't the top just absorb the decreased income though?
Isn't that always the debate, that the top should take a little less and spread a little more out?
>>1172054
Tbqh working """harder""" at jobs at that pay is arbitrary.
>>1171214
We tried trickle down economics didn't work Roosevelt tried socialist ideas and it worked nuff said
>>1172174
um he delayed the recovery for multiple decades, It took ww2 to unfuck his economy.
>>1172180
WW2 didn't unfuck the US economy. It fucked everyone else's economy to the point where the US was the only non-wrecked country left in the world.
>>1172193
This. The US turned war into an industry. Since then they have started a new one every decade or so.
>>1171171
inflation will go up
that's it
while not a bad thing, it's not where we needed raises or for there to be the source of inflation
>>1172064
what we will more likely see is less employment and more skeleton shifts
>>1172047
>Can't even argue basic economics
I'm fucking laughing
>>1171314
Still didn't answer my question you overly aggressive pussy.
>>1171830
>explain to me in logical terms why we can't just pay everyone a trillion dollars an hour? That should really get the economy going right?
Why offer such a softball question? Hyperbole of this kind only works if you don't go so far as to make yourself seem more foolish than those you are attempting to malign.
Either way, Softball is fun.
>why we can't just pay everyone a trillion dollars an hour?
There is literally not enough M1 in America to pay the graveyard shift of a McDonald at $1t/h
>>1171334
Be prepared for no rescinding of tax brackets to reflect the higher base wage pay. Enjoy the double fuck at the federal level.
>>1172338
I think he will just enjoy the higher take home pay for the same hours worked.
>>1172338
Will this be the thing that turns tax recipients into tax protesters like the rest of us who work?
>>1172340
>citation fucking needed, Ina
why would someone making 50k get a pay raise as a result of the minimum increase?
>>1171366
You know the average age of those working minimum wage jobs is 35 right?
Let me tell you how it goes down. Minimum wage goes up $15, prices rise, employees are cut, the employees that are left get more work load, unemployment rises, people are angry. Anything I missed?
>>1172357
I was responding to >>1172338 Who was responding to >>1171334 who claimed that his wages would go up.
I was simply stating that in the scenario where his wages did go up as >>1171334 claimed. The added tax burden brought up by >>1172338 would still fail to fully remove the increase in take home pay.
So why is It my job to prove to you that 50k would go up with an increase in minimum wage?
>>1171314
In the Mid-West if you are not living urban like Chicago, St.Louis or Cleveland you most definitlly can survive off of $8. What do you think a person needs to live on? Poverty in America is twice as good as most people live in the world. Plus, if you come in under 12,500 you are eligible for all sorts of subsidies, ain't it grand.
oh, and, you libtard, cognitive deficient, mongrel-inbred-ogre. Fuck me, I'd fuck me.
>>1172365
>the employees that are left get more work load
For more pay.
>unemployment rises
Unemployment will rise, but labor force participation will increase and less people will be reliant on government assistance.
You guys need to think about how this would actually play out and not just rely on political talking points.
>>1172370
Topkek you are a moron.
>>1172370
wut.
Also, you failed to take into consideration their Obamacare subsidy will be greatly reduced. This can actually result in a net loss in pay
it will have no impact.
wages remain symbiotic with prices.
there aren't many industries that would leave, or have the capacity to.
Any good recommendations for a restaurant automation company?
>>1172398
generally this. it will mostly affect food prices and maybe your internet. also since its the government they'll just fuck you on the assistance you would have had before because what else are you going to do?
i think it won't be truly tested until a big recession hits. maybe it will hold and most people will be okay, but i have a feeling that nobody will come help a bunch of idiots who spent their entire lives asking for money and not much else.
>>1171208
leftists don't understand simple economics
>>1172415
it ends at 62k
>>1172421
62k is for a family of two.
I am working under the assumption that he is single because he gave me no evidence to support any other assumption.
![federal-poverty-level-obamacare-tax-subsidy-eligibility[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/OLSYoaZ.png "federal-poverty-level-obamacare-tax-subsidy-eligibility[1].png")
>>1172446
Forgot image.
>>1171171
>falling for the union scam
>>1171942
>I deserve more money just because I have money, while other people deserve to stay at the same level of wealth unless they earn more because reasons
It's always been very clear that the rich are the real gibs me dats.
>>1171196
This.
Add in any business who needs minimum wage workers and can't charge more going bust. Ag businesses come to mind.
>>1172446
How does that quote go... assumptions are for assholes...
or something like that.
>>1172504
I guess all economists are assholes then.
But I would rather be an asshole and right than a cuck and wrong.
>>1172506
>all economists are assholes
Struck the nail right on the head. Also, all assumptions cant be right, js.
You motherfukers bitching about 15 minimum wage know that the VAST majority of employers pay their workers real living wages. It's about time all these shit hole indentured slave drivers get what's been coming to them.
>>1172490
>"It's always been very clear that the rich are the real gibs me dats."
>If you want something expensive but don't earn a lot of money you should be given more money so that you can buy it.
>If you aren't given more money then it's because rich people are too greedy to share.
>>1172520
I get paid less for doing more honest work in a hardware store in Colorado.
And no, it isn't some no-name store either. It's a mom and pop that's the center of a pivotal city here in the state, and I'll let you guess where I might work.
The fact they can't give me more than two raises a year (or a promotion) despite I've been commended by others, multiple friends of the owner, etc goes to show that even rising rent of the town is having repercussions on our business.
It's the retarded yuppie liberals who do this to themselves. This town in question is highly liberal, and because of that, they're attracting exactly that in terms of yuppie technological jobs and others. Google is coming to town, expanding. Other tech firms are coming.
Then the entire city is left pondering why we have no fucking parking spots/space left in this town, why the rising rent of the city (in terms of business and residential) are driving low and middle-low income families out to the rural towns and making it nigh impossible to get anyone to fill these "middle-low" jobs that beyond burger-flippers, but underneath said tech workers, all whilst needing English (leaving out the [illegal and legal] Mexican migrant families), and needing full time workers (eliminating the college work force).
It's hilarious shotgun meets foot theory here.
I can only imagine what would occur if my city or state somehow did this same measure, I'm fairly sure my current employer would go out of business at that announcement.
>>1171180
But it is more nuanced than that. There are lots of factors at play. Just to name a few:
>it matters if the raise will lead to a wage that is above the labour market equilibrium wage; orthodox (and very simplistic) economics says that only after this will there be a negative impact on the economy
>you need to take into account the welfare/food stamps savings that the state is going to have from big minimum wage employers like Walmart and fast food chains ...etc
>you need to take into account that all wages, not just minimum wage will be increased to some extent; if you have any kind of trade, the wage is negotiated as a percentage above the minimum wage, even if your wage is not negotiated, the labour market will obviously be affected and wages will go up
>so then you have lots more money allocated to the most potential spenders; you need to take that into account
>then you need to take into account what businesses might end up closing; how many are working with such thin margins and have such high costs of labour that a raise will render them financially unfeasible?
>you need to take into account businesses moving out of state as well
>you need to take into account inflation; most goods and services won't be affected but rent will because suddenly you have people moving out of ghetto areas to safer ones where the rent is higher
So really there's lots of positive and negative affects that all need to be taken into account and the answer is not trivial at all.
But the good news is that we have econometrics, we have tons of data to work with and really I cannot see why one couldn't possible crunch the numbers to get an approximate understanding of what is going to happen.
I mean economists supposedly know already that TTIP will be a net positive increase in GDP of so many billions. And that's a huge amount of regulation that is going to affect the whole EU and the US, not a simple increase in minimum wage. This is a much easier task.
>>1171187
>trickle-down economics the post.
>Just give tax cuts to capitalists, so they can invest in the places they live!
> Have engineering degree.
> Make $39,000 currently
> Have Car payment, insurance, gas to get to work
> ~$500 after all said and done.
If they raise this shit in Ohio to $15hr, I'll be quitting my job and getting a job at the local target or lowes and come out on top when I get rid of my car, insurance, and gas expense.
I FEEL THE BERN /sarcasm
