Why is rent so astronomically high in the USA?
I cant afford to exist at my current pay, rent is 1k minimum anywhere where jobs are located.
Why are renters and landlords allowed? They just create inefficiency in the system. If I didn't have to commute an hour and a half to work each day to afford rent, I'd be able to create at least an extra hour of labor with a much shorter commute instead.
Work commutes seem to be created by the parasite landlord class.
>>1168444
Undocumented immigrants and Mainlanders.
The undocumented take up all the low rent apartments while the Mainlanders take everything else.
High where jobs are because of supply and demand.
>>1168444
>I literally do not understand economics the post
Go back to highschool
>>1168464
What I meant to lead into is, why is this allowed?
I get there are laws for it now, but why are people allowed to own more housing than they personally can actually use, or just keep it perpetually empty in a kid like "If I cant get thousands for it then no one can use it!"
What is the justification to not just enact laws to stop that?
I mean, the way renting things works right now is almost like those parady libertarian society shitposts.
In a libertarian society, whats stopping me from buying all the houses and not letting anyone live in them? Its feudal lord tier.
I've been studying real estate economics in depth recently. My dads a landlord too so
I was raised around the topic.
There's a variety of factors, but easy monetary policy and foreign investment is driving property value in my native Bay Area.
Chinese buy homes all cash and rent them out and property investors are reaping the rewards of low interest rates.
Regretfully, it's placing home ownership out of reach and creating a nation of renters. The recovery benefited the top 10% and obviously the top .01% the most.
It is feaudal lord tier. America is back down to reality where there's rich or poor. No in between. The way it was for thousands of years. I say this regretfully
>>1168470
You are extremely stupid, did you know that?
Ok, to build a house you need land permits, own the land, an architect and build it. All of the above things cost a lot of money. If plot A costs 100k but due to the markets competition for it, people are willing to pay 110k for it, thats its value now. A goods value is tied to how much it can be sold for, now renting... He has to make some money for it, aka an interest rate. The house is not eternal and it wears out in time. By restricting rent caps you restrict the possibilities of new suburbs, towns and centers to be born. If all youth move their stuff elsewhere due to rent prices being too high, most likely a new bar district will follow the money and move near too.
If you would limit rent prices, you would limit a citys growth possibilities, dynamic social growth and youd prove youve failed. A price ceiling often causes in rents a shortage, its not economically viable, a landlord has running costs for the apartment too which are usually 1/3 of the rent. Now if you really think a student can shell out 250 gran for an apartment, youre even more stupid.
>>1168492
How do you explain so many apartments being entirely empty for up to years at a time, while many Americans are completely unable to afford them? Who are they planning to rent to, a class of people that does not exist?
I NEVER mentioned limiting RENT PRICES, nice complete artificial strawman you created there. I stated there is no reason to occupy sections of land and essentially cordon them off and make them unable to be used by people that would use them.
Its cartoonishly silly, but the explanations here from other posters made me get some sense of things. I have previously heard foreign investors were creating a massive bubble in Australia, but I never considered the same coud happen on such a scale in the USA.
I may not have taken any classes in any sorts of economics, but I do have some average leve understanding of things like any other American.
Isnt this exactly what happened before in several countries, including the USA, with housing bubbles and housing being overvalued, but the owners of said investment were unwilling ot budge on the perceived worth?
>>1168472
Here in Australia house prices are also inflated by Chinese foreign investors. I've heard some are predicting this to fall soon because of both a weakening Yuan, and Chinese having a much harder time getting their money off shore. Our housing bubble (which I believe is further inflated than yours) is expected to deflate if not pop, not sure what the US forcast is though.
>>1168470
>why are people allowed to own more housing than they personally can actually use
Why are you allowed to to spend your salary on enough food to feed yourself to the point of obesity when there are people starving in the world? Because Capitalism isn't perfect.
>>1168444
>Why are renters and landlords allowed?
Because its a free market you fucking socialistic cunt. You can buy your own flat, or build a house, even a castle if you can afford it, then try to criticize, since you do not own anything, you can't oppose the status of owning, because you don't know what it is about. That's like saying men are not allowed to have dicks, because women don't have dicks. Your flawed irrational Marxist's logic makes me want to grind you into pieces and feed you to the dogs, because that's the most use free society can get out of you.
>They just create inefficiency in the system.
Get back to high school to learn how economics actually works. There is so much nonsense in you post, it makes me want to nuke your head.
>>1168470
>I get there are laws for it now
>What I meant to lead into is, why is this allowed?
Free ownership of land and properties are basic principles of American constitution you Stalinistic dickhead.
>>1168470
>In a libertarian society, whats stopping me from buying all the houses and not letting anyone live in them? Its feudal lord tier.
What's stopping you on doing that is lost profit you fucking dickhead. You would waste you assets on something not producing anything, however expenditure in taxation and maintenance cost would make your bad investment even worse. Seriously, is this a joke or are you that dumb?
Also this:
>>1168492
OP, GTFO of /biz you socialistic uneducated moron.
>>1168500
>but I do have some average leve understanding of things like any other American.
No, you don't! You don't even know basics of American constitution, your logic is totally flawed and irrational. GTFO
>>1168507
>What's stopping you on doing that is lost profit you fucking dickhead.
They're already bleeding possible profits in property taxes. So they're just paying money to keep its list value up. So that maintenance expense already exists, are you pretending it isn't? This example is currently happening in non hyperbole.
>Because its a free market you fucking socialistic cunt.
Well I get that socialism is the big bad word, but it really doesn't make much sense for it to be this extreme to live somewhere, especially given that having a residence is pretty much the bare basic to live in the west.
It would be like farming, stockpiling all the food and making the price so high you spend the majority of your income just on buying the food.
Is it even allowed to speculate on foodstuff that way today? I genuinely don't know.
>Get back to high school to learn how economics actually works. There is so much nonsense in you post, it makes me want to nuke your head.
okay... how is that not inefficient? There isn't much reason for rent income and housing to be considered production or anything other than middle man type non-work. Its not labor and its not really a service either, so it doesn't create anything at all. You're just charging as much as possible for someone to exist, and they're forced to have a residence to be employed too. If you wanted to live in a mobile doghouse parked in an alley somewhere, you cant even do that you'll just get arrested and told you HAVE to live in the houses and apartments someone is renting, or you cant live anywhere near where you can actually work.
>>1168500
Are going to buy them then? Please answer this, do you have 250 gran right now to buy your own house?
No?
Thats why youre renting, thats why theyre renting them out with high prices.
Because houses cost a lot of money to maintain and upkeep. Once you buy your first home, assuming your liberal arts degree nets you a nice McDonalds night shift position, you too will learn to appreciate the chance when you get fired for throwing the soda on the evil capitalist landowners face, that you always have a fallback of renting out your own apartment and bunking at someone elses place while you get your shit together.
>"What is the justification to not just enact laws to stop that?"
A price ceiling, or are you maybe, saying we should have a limit on ownership?
That creates even worse problems, houses owners cant get rid of that are running costs. This is single most stupid idea and would cause the next generation to go bankrupt because they cant move once they own a house, BECAUSE THEY CANT SELL IT TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE MONEY.
>>1168518
>that creates even worse problems, houses owners cant get rid of that are running costs. This is single most stupid idea and would cause the next generation to go bankrupt because they cant move once they own a house, BECAUSE THEY CANT SELL IT TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE MONEY.
Oh my, what I meant to say was
>That creates even worse problems, then houses owners cant get rid of the houses, remember, they are running costs. This is the single most stupid idea and would cause the next generation to go bankrupt because they cant move once they own a house, BECAUSE THEY CANT SELL IT TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE MONEY.
>>1168518
>That creates even worse problems, houses owners cant get rid of that are running costs. This is single most stupid idea and would cause the next generation to go bankrupt because they cant move once they own a house, BECAUSE THEY CANT SELL IT TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE MONEY.
Doesn't that make it just a low liquidity asset, which means you have to sell it for less if you want to get out of it fast?
Maybe housing should stop being seen as an investment.
I also looked it up, and it seems that giant multinationals are treating food like an investment and speculating on it. There is an article on time magazine that says its been driving food prices up?
I don't know if Time is a source that's accepted on /biz/.
Oh, and please stop with the Stalinist commie and liberal arts type memes. I'm none of those things. I'm just a young guy that works full time in yes, a poor job and live in a rural area.
I brought this thread up because I cant find better work anywhere where I live, and if I want to move anywhere else in the USA rent is even higher. It seems that where the work is in the northeast, rent is approaching what a full salary of a middle class job would pay here....
So, I think, that there should be another way that rent and housing should be treated in this country. I don't have any ideas, and its why I came here. Not everything can be treated the same way.
A good example I read on the paper recently is how businesses receive federal aid after natural disasters. Farmers will obviously need more help than a local toy store. The store would have lost profits from the time it was closed, but the farmer would have lost a year's worth of crops and profit.
I mean, you could treat them the same and that was a big thing in this state, and probably still is, but farming is pretty important and it should be treated more carefuly than business that is less vital. Likewise with housing investment and investment in other less vital things.
>>1168529
No it doesn't, it generates a huge loss. House selling times are already in the months, that's already a humongous risk on the pricing considering how volatile markets are.Today's currency is always better than tomorrow's currency. If you go in at 20 and sell at 19, that's a loss. Accounting in the maintaining and upkeep, your true loss is around 17. If it's not seen as a way to make money, no one will work on it. If I can't make money building houses, why would I waste my opportunity cost on it and not instead, let's say, start producing dragon dildoes? If I can't rent out houses on a price I find worthwhile to spend my capital and trade my leisure for, I won't be renting them. Instead I will be doing something else. If every landlord starts to feel this way, there will be none. Then there are no houses to rent. Now if you think this drives sale prices lower, it won't. The prices will be just as high, do you know why? Because everyone has to buy a house then, we will have a lot of people AGAIN taking loans they can't afford. We will get another 80's junkbond wave and a subsequent crash as they default.
Why are you coming to ask for reasons and advice when you're so convinced your answer is the only right one? Isn't it clear by now, that it's useless to try to explain or teach to you, because you know, you have leverage on this subject and know so much more.You're being made fun out of because you're acting like the typical self-entitled Communist Hyper. Every time someone tries to explain how these things work to you, you backtrack and say shit that has nothing to do with it. Clearly people who are passionate enough about a subject, to spend their free time browsing and posting on a board related to it, seem to somehow know less than you. Clearly our information is worthless to you and you're here to just assert your own ego and to convince yourself even more that you are right.
Could you please go read a book about economics or at least, leave?
>>1168541
>The prices will be just as high, do you know why? Because everyone has to buy a house then, we will have a lot of people AGAIN taking loans they can't afford. We will get another 80's junkbond wave and a subsequent crash as they default.
How would this work if lets say, banks didn't offer loans and you had to buy houses in private sales with no loans involved? People would still have to buy homes obviously since they have to live.
I have heard that student loans being easily available drove the prices of university up, so wouldn't the same happen to housing, and they're priced high because they know that buyers will be taking loans?
>Why are you coming to ask for reasons and advice when you're so convinced your answer is the only right one?
I'm asking a bunch of questions because I want to understand whats wrong about my viewpoint, but for every answer I get I have more questions and every time I ask something or say anything I just get insulted.
Now you're just telling me the "its not my job to educate you shitlord!" type deal at the end of your post.
I mean, it seems righ twing people and left wing people, neither of them want to explain to me why they believe their ideas and that they're not going to explain things to me, but they will take the time to tell me that I'm wrong and call me names.
I don't think demoralization is a good way to make people receptive to ideas.
>>1168545
It's even a greater idea to not read books if you're that interested as you say you are and instead go to a French Moulin Rouge Enthusiast Crossdresser Email Chain to ask them about it.
They're priced high because you need things to build a house. The more things you need for a good and the longer the supply chain is, the more there are middle men who also take their cut. You can't build a house from nothing.
If banks wouldn't offer loans it would just mean we would have no house building industry. We would all live in tents or rent, because there would be no market where the costs and profits find a reasonable equilibrium. It could mean that the building industry gets outsourced, which would mean, that American builders would be replaced with Ping Ling and Joao Paco, which would drive Americans even poorer and less employed. Also the quality of houses would most likely drop down in efforts to cut prices to a market price.
>>1168551
>It's even a greater idea to not read books if you're that interested as you say you are and instead go to a French Moulin Rouge Enthusiast Crossdresser Email Chain to ask them about it.
I've been browsing 4chan for a long time and its pretty much my peer group, why wouldn't I ask here...
The only reading I've done on these topics have been from articles linked here, the local paper, and online papers. There is surely no set book titled "answer to anon's vague questions" but you guys have helped narrow down what I could possibly type into google and check for books I can find on amazon.
Right now I'll have to consider just living out of my car, since there seems to be nothing within my price range.
>>1168557
Read Economics, from variable angles.
Keynesian and Austrian school are the least retarded, but remember they have their own flaws too. Both's bibles can be found for free online as PDF and ePub, after that it's just application of the information. You can't expect to find an answer to a question on top of a pyramid of 40 stories, when you don't understand any of the 40 levels below it. "Why are rents so high?" is a vague question with hundreds of outside factors and variables contributing to it, you can't expect to understand it fully unless you have some grasp of these variables and factors. You don't jump in to building a skyscraper in the middle of Manhattan if you don't even know what factors are included in building a skyscraper and what is required to be able to build Manhattan. The same applies here.
>>1168557
Everyone is calling you a stupid faggot because you don't seem to understand the basic economic principals behind the problem, or be able to apply them. Please screen cap this thread then go do watch these vids.
Annoyingly chipper and kinda faggoty but easy to follow. Don't just watch the first video.. watch all the econ ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ez10ADR_gM
Then follow the economy lectures here https://www.khanacademy.org/
Also just educate yourself on the basics schools of thought; capitalism, socialism, communism.
After this read this tread back. See how far you've come.
>>1168562
>>1168564
I'll look into this then. I think I remember there being a torrent with a bunch of books posted around 4chan that had economics and politics books.
I'm leaving the thread now, so I apologize for the OP. I don't know how things work on this board or how banhappy mods are or what the memes are. But making inflammatory OP posts is the only way to get attention anywhere else on this site, a la posting a link and right under it "trump BTFO ITS OVER" to get replies and people arguing.
>>1168515
Check out the onion futures act
>>1168570
I'm with the rest of these guys. You would do yourself a HUGE service to learn about this stuff. Not only will you understand the answer to your question, but it will help you make better decisions in your personal finances.
You wanna know what's real bullshit OP? All the minorities can rent close to the city for cheap, and I can't move in there because I'd be the only white person in a 10 square block area.
If I was black I could easily live there and keep my head down and nobody would mess with me.
>>1168444
If we're all animals and might makes right, then you should be able to take the current owner's property by force. Fair is fair.
>>1168678
this desu. also how the fuck can "impoverished" black people afford to live half a mile north from central park?
>>1168678
>I can't move in there because I'd be the only white person in a 10 square block area.
That's not a reason you can't it's a reason you wont.
>>1168444
Rents are high because people who can't buy or build a house to the state's standard (i,e, they don't have enough money to do so) are forced to rent, because you need an address to do a bunch of shit. Basically government regulation props up rents and house prices.
If the market had its way you could have someone put up hundreds of shoebox rooms in a tiny footprint and rent them out on the cheap, government intervention is the only thing preventing this.
>>1168785
>wanting to get robbed, killed etc
>>1168798
>being a victim
Gentrification starts somewhere faggot
I think it's funny that someone considers 1k per month to be astronomically high.
>>1168785
I'd get fucked with because I'd be seen as the white establishment, even though I'm just as working class as them.
>>1168806
I don't need Starbucks, Chipotle and Whole Foods before I move to a neighborhood, I'd be content with blue collar amenities (Aldi, 7/11 and KFC). And the only people who can live in these blue collar neighborhoods in cities are minorities.
>>1168470
>What I meant to lead into is, why is this allowed?
Well society chose private property as one of pillars on which to base everything else, and you should be happy it did (for the record Im renting myself so I'm not the people you hate).
Without private property rights you'd literally be in USSR barracks tier, because most people in USSR were lazy pieces of shit (my grandad wasn't but what did that get him!? Fucking nothing, he wasted his life working for the collective like a borg drone).
Basically vast majority of people won't be motivated to work well if they can't own something out of it. For your immediate problem at hand - you need to get a better job. Start now, if you have no education mailmen and bus drivers get paid pretty nice, but the wait is like a year even to be considered.
>>1168826
>I'd get fucked with because I'd be seen as the white establishment, even though I'm just as working class as them.
Thats why there is a need for 2nd amendement worldwide. Nothing protects a persons rights better than a personal weapon, espetialy since vast majority of shitheads and silverbacks in this world understand only one language - force.
>>1168786
I don't know man, I just thought about the whole government regulation thing yesterday. There's good and there's bad, the good is at least people will have somewhere to live, a roof over their head even if its Brazillian favela-tier. The bad is that once people are in those conditions its hard for themselves to get out of there, although its better than perishing on the street. Hard questions brah.
>>1168849
> vast majority of people won't be motivated to work well if they can't own something out of it
you literally wrote this right after you criticize USSR barracks. So authoritarian capitalists are better than authoritarian socialists? Explain your reasoning here. How does either benefit the non-wealthiest elite?
I only pay 605 p/m for a 2 bed new build in UK, not in city but in suburb
>>1168854
I don't wanna intimidate people, I just wish there was a way to live in blue collar city neighborhoods, because me and working class minorities are the exact same type of person outside of our race.
>>1168854
great social policy anon. do you get much sunlight in your fear-based fantasy?
>>1168444
You could always buy instead of rent. Unless of course you credit and income are shit. Those are problems caused by you, not your landlord.
>>1168470
because the poor have low opinions of themselves.
>>1168826
Its not entirely their fault. Its rich white liberals that are the ones who actively and passionately encourage them to hate white people while the liberals themselves live in gated communities or college campuses
>>1168864
How do I go about finding a half decent place outside of a city if I know nothing about the area? I don't want to live in London anymore, but I don't know how to find actual nice places to live outside of it.
>>1168862
>So authoritarian capitalists are better than authoritarian socialists?
Yes, authoritarian capitalists are marginally better than authoritarian socialists. At least your destiny is in your own hands. In Stalin's times you'd literally be thrown in jail for a week if you were late to work. I'm sure /pol would love this since it fights "degeneracy", but any normal person understands how absurd it is.
In authoritarian capitalism at least I'm free to leave at any time. Sure, if you leave without a cushion you're going straight to the ghetto, but at least there is a choice.
>How does either benefit the non-wealthiest elite?
A man needs to have a sense of destiny thats under his control, even if its an illusion (as it largely is under authoritarian capitalism). Authoritarian communism doesn't even give the luxury of the illusion itself.
>>1168444
>Why is rent so astronomically high in the USA?
market manipulation.
They also jack up house prices by buying up singly family houses in cities and turning them into multi-unit rentals.
>>1168866
Has nothing to do with intimidation man. At an animal level people understand force. Weapons tip the advantage from a 1-1 person encounter to 1-N person encounter, making you less likely to be accosted by a mob, which in turn passively prevents mobs from forming in the first place because if there is no strength in numbers to take away your stuff/life, there is no reason for it.
>>1168870
Sorry man but my views are grounded in reality, not a disney land fairy tale. Reality is a dirty thing and I wish it'd change for the better, I'm sure many Romans in the slave-owning days did too. Doesn't mean you have to discount human nature and animal instincts because some sjw tells me so.
>>1168786
>regulation props up rents and house prices.
No.
House prices in cities are so high because the supply is disappearing. The capitalist class are buying them up and turning them into rentals. It's an oligarchy that essentially cornering the market.
>>1168937
it's adorable that you choose to actually think this way
I mean, one could choose to take the capitalist cock up their ass and convince themselves that it's their gfs finger, but I'd rather avoid all those anal antics completely
>>1168978
Please, go ahead and open my eyes to reality of this world instead.
>ibr I'm not open minded enough to understand the teachings of Marx
>>1168470
>Bernie Sanders supporter on the Internet
Because free market practices in the US and the US tax laws allow the country to be a tax haven for many foreign internationals with money. Real estate is a huge investment option for them, because that simply an possibility for them in their native country.
