Hey /biz/
I am considering to start playing poker online to cover my student loans. I have prior experience, but only on an amateur level.
Does anyone have any experience with long term profit from online poker?
And how can I improve my own play, to maintain long term profit?
>>1166573
you will lose money before you make money
>>1166577
Is there no viable way to get good at poker without losing money? I am willing to invest some into it, but if we are talking thousands of dollars, then it probably isnt a bright idea
>>1166584
you can get lucky, but you have to get used to each level
>>1166584
Take it from someone who spent years trying to achieve success in online poker. You have to be willing to lose a lot to make big returns. By the time I invested enough time and money I was making about 40$ an hour and it was so boring it made me hate my life and I no longer value money the same way I used to. I'm now focusing on the things I enjoy and find important because that was the most mindless/stressful/repetitive job you could ever have. It's not worth your one and if you want to make It really big you have to either play tournaments and hope you win your coin tosses or grind your heart out which means taking out none of your winnings and moving up stakes as fast as you can; you can easily go broke
>>1166584
Iirc you need a bankroll some 20 times bigger than the size of the games you'll be playing in to absorb random bad luck. pro poker takes a lot of time and patience. If it was easy and fun everybody would do it
>>1166618
>40$ per hour
But that is a shitload.
That is like 320$ a day.
1600$ a week.
6400$ a month.
Ah wait, it is actually not that much.
>>1166676
Well playing poker for 40 an hour is better than working in Mac Donalds for 10 an hour.
>>1166695
considering you have to play as many hours as humanly possible and will have weeks and months where you are actually negative cash flow it can be very stressful and downright impossible depending on your life situation. If you have a family you can basically forget about it. Most pro poker players have people stake a large majority of their play so that they can live stable lives because if they funded themselves 100% they would have points where they come very close if not past the point of losing more than their net worth (IE Tom Dwan).
It drains your soul; if you're intelligent enough to actually succeed at beating online poker and getting to a moderate level of success ($40 - $80) you're smart enough to pretty much do whatever you want. That's the point I think I should have made. You are either incapable of doing this at which point you'll lose money, or you can do it, but could be spending your time on much more meaningful things.
Long term you'll be down. Short term you'll be down. However people golf and blow the equivalent of a tournament buyin on green fees, cart rentals, and balls (because who's really good at golf?). Sure golf is exercise but who really considers walking and hitting a good workout. Every now and again one might make a few hundred to a grand in a tourney. Golf you get nothing.
>>1166815
this guy gets it
you'll think about everything in terms of EV
every waking moment of your life will be spent thinking about poker
it will crush our mind and soul
"poker is a hard way to make an easy living" is an enormouse understatement
>>1166676
>>1166695
It's not the best money in the world, but you can hide some of it from the IRS depending on your job situation and it's a fuckton better than having a boss to deal with.
also when all of your friends have degrees and are in debt with children and no jobs and you're making 100 an hour talking shit to people, you feel like a fucking god.
>>1166815
>It drains your soul; if you're intelligent enough to actually succeed at beating online poker and getting to a moderate level of success ($40 - $80) you're smart enough to pretty much do whatever you want.
That couldn't be more false. Online pro poker players are some of the biggest retards on earth. Lazy, entitled, socially inept, and moronic.
>>1167644
I was unaware that all non-poker jobs necessarily required buying unnecessary shit and having kids.
>the logic of a poker player on display, ladies and gentleman
>>1166573
online poker is a scam don't waste your time
>>1167655
hmmm...
you know, i was making a post saying that while the money isn't the greatest (especially at the lower levels) you're still much better off than most people.
Though, im sure you understand that logic, seeing as you like to poke holes in other people's logic
>>1167644
I am not talking about playing poker for life on a professional level, just playing poker to make some money inbetween studying. Going pro on poker obviously will be very repetitive
>>1167648
Low IQ plebeian detected. Here's a hint: intelligence objectively measures one's cognitive ability. Words such as "lazy", "entitled", "socially inept" and "moronic" provide no quantitative information, and should not be brought up at all in a discussion related to cognitive ability.
Moreover, being entitled or socially inept does not hinder a smart person from earning money by playing online poker.
>>1168718
>Intelligence
>Objective Cognitive Abillity
>>1166573
Poker can already be beaten by AI most of the time so it's becoming a dying game. Online poker sites are filled with quite good players/bots so it's a lot harder to make money than it was 8 years ago.
>>1168766
Can you name me a better method of measuring cognitive ability in a maximally objective manner? I'm guessing you can't, since if you could achieve said feat, you'd be a world-renowned scientist by now.
>>1166573
I'm playing pretty much online poker, and I think it's great. The games are getting tougher and tougher, but if you are able to study poker (and not only playing) I think it should be possible to move up in stakes pretty quickly. When I started playing online, I had played some live, but it was hardly comparable to to online scene. I studied some strategy online along with my playing, and it didn't take to long before I was moving up the stakes.
I think it would be possible for me to generate a decent income playing online poker not too far into the future. And if you become a decent online player, you should be able to crush the live scene.
>>1168834
Why write something you obviously have no clue about that? Poker is very far from a solved game, look into it.
>>1166573
>And how can I improve my own play, to maintain long term profit?
yuo shud butit all n redd
>>1168718
dude read a book about what intelligence is... ffs just start reading the wikipedia article on what the IQ actually means...
you will realise it means jack shit
>holy fuck people are getting more retarded each day...
>and everyone on /biz/ has a IQ of 200+
if you can't even understand what is relevant in this world how the fuck do you expect to be able to even invest in shit
second with >>1168766
>>1169821
>I can't explain what intelligence is
That's what I read.
>>1169387
Sounds like you're the one without a clue. Bots have been around some sites for years now; and they can certainly be programmed to be profitable, the only downside is in losing everything after being found out.
>>1169910
Bots really only work well in HU limit games, where they can calculate every possible outcome. In MPNL games, bots can be easily crushed because it is impossible for them to calculate all the variables in play. To put it simply, AI and overbets confuse the shit out of them. The problem with bots is they will react the same way with the same hands and same stimuli and always play the same ranges. They will never act rash or wildly like a real player would. For this reason they are predictable.
>coming from someone who has programmed bots before and also used bots created by other people
To be fair, bots pull positive EVs consistently in heads up play. Do not think that this makes playing online a rigged game, however. Just learn how to calculate pot odds and you will play on par with them. They are only meant to take money from amateurs. This should be your goal too. If you can't spot pros or bots while in a game, you have no business in that game.
preflop 3bet
cbet/flop donk
float
probe
These things will help you out with your game.
>>1170407
>flop donk
I never understood this. It just looks like such a retarded move to me. If you are bluffing, people will be able to tell because of the frequency. And if you're value betting, the ones who call would have probably bet anyway.
>>1169910
>>1169912
How the hell you can tell a bot?
I mean, you don't even have to run it on the same device, you just have to have another computer running with a simulator bot and put it all the cards quickly. Hell, you can program it to use webcam and read from your screen, since pokerstars and shit probably have protection against simultaneous processes running. So you have this machine you input all the game data into and it makes the best value judgements percentage wise. I mean, how the fuck are they going to find out? You can even make a few errors, so it does not play PERFECT. How is this NOT going to work?
>>1170523
it's a line most people won't know how to react accordingly to. it's best to donk flop against opponents who cbet bluff too much. they'll be induced into bluffing even more, or shut down, allowing you to steamroll the table with little interference.
>>1169910
GTO is a term used in poker for a perfect strategy. The only scenario which has been "cracked" and a GTO discovered is where two players are HU, and they can only go all in, fold and call. This is a totaly unrealistic scenario, and someone with just a tiny bit of experience would be able to trap a bot and win close to every time.
Poker is solveable, if everyone played perfect, then over time everyone will break even.
Bots can perhaps in the future become something to worry about, but today no bots is even close. There's just to many variables.
>>1170407
>flop donk
I have actually jused this as a strategy against semi-good opponents live. They bet pre, and if I really make a good hand (flop set or better) I sometimes tend to donk bet half pot. The pre flop raiser very rarely folds here, and you will often face a 3-bet. Which is very good when holding premium hands.
What site do you guys play on?
Hey, I play at Party and today they started this "Sit & Go Hero" thing, which apparently is called "Spin & Go" in other sites. Is it worth giving it a shot?
