Finished reading Dent's the Demographic Cliff and the man has been spot on regarding economic events in the past and most recently the late 2015 sell-off. He's not a perma bear like Schiff or Faber either. He's called bull markets as well.
Looking to off my 500oz stack that I've accumlated since July 2015. Recently graduated and it was more of an impulse to keep buying. I prefer p2p lending or dividend stocks (MO in particular, shareholder since 2010, keep puffin).
Any experience selling silver? What's the markdown/brokers fee?
>>1162081
please highlight the reasons i'm interested in buying silver cause of the dollar bubble and cause silver already under the return as for mining and in short supply.
i'm aware that some powerful groups are playing with paper silver and pressing the price down i imagine they want to make money on it down and up.
i figured it has to go up eventually i just don't know when.
it might even hit $7 per ounce they say.
Read that book as well. I'm more inclined to buy into local agriculturally zoned land and local businesses rather than buy silver.
>>1162126
well i'm a poorfag in a poorfag country and a city boy also government tampering skyrocketed the prices of real estate you could build new homes on, so that is also off the plate.
i planned on buying a piece of land in the outskirts where development would be expected in the coming decades but as of yet cheap but they fucked it all to hell prematurely before i got the money.
It was an excellent read. Rental property, specifically farmland is an excellent choice, I wish you success.
Maybe the other guy can touch on it too but theres a few reasons cited:
1) The dollar was the safe haven in the last meltdown
2) Commodities will experience a continued deflationary environment from the stagnating/deflating global economies
3) Our dollar losing purchasing power is from an extended supply chain. Before we grew our food; now there's multiple middle men and the money supply expanded as a consequence of everyone specializing/doing their job.
I recently read Mike Maloneys Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver.
This is some critical thinking on my part analyzing both sides. And my conclusion is precious metals aren't even an inflation hedge and definitely not a crisis hedge.
Real estates about location. Coastal cities and highly productive land like the aforementioned agricultural land is the best. Read a story about a guy that owned acreage that was leased to chicken farmers. By the lols of it, it was a disgusting shit and feather filled plots. However it was lucrative, highly lucrative.
>>1162133
well that's the thing.
the dollar probably won't be a safe haven next time cause it will be the reason of total economic crisis.
maybe mike mike is too hysterical about it but the numbers are chilling.
i don't see how it would be possible to supply
the industry with silver without raising the price of physical silver either.
if you buy under $15 in theory you should make profit on it. and silver is a hysterical market.
my main problem is you can buy silver all right but how do you sell it? who would buy it? i mean i wouldn't buy from a random guy i would only buy from a trading house of some repute. fakes are everywhere i'm not equipped to spot them. the traders are using this insane gap on sell and buy prices almost guaranteeing you won't make money on it. and when prices fall into the hysterical rang for a short while they not going to be buying it. they are not stupid.
>>1162133
Commodity prices have a lot to do with the value of the dollar and precious metals relate heavily to interest rates. Hypothetically, in a low interest-rate, low dollar (or fear of a low dollar) scenario, PMs should become a safehaven and skyrocket, ala 2011. The strong dollar is the only thing keeping metals down right now, IMO.
>>1162182
>The strong dollar is the only thing keeping metals down right now, IMO.
the fuckers shorting it and making money on it probably have a hand in it too right?
anyways if you look at XAU/XAG it shows that silver right now is pretty undervalued compared to gold which means they are not in this ride together.
however if you look ate inflation adjusted silver prices it looks like it could go a lot lower for a long time.
this is the part that i don't get, if there is a silver shortage and if the mining is not profitable at current levels how can it go under for a long time?
From my research it seems that there's a 5-15% brokers fee at your local coin shop. There's three in my area that I've frequented a couple of times each. Didn't always buy, but I did make it a point to strike up a convo. Shit idk. I might hold my stack and just not buy anymore.
Maybe gold is the safe haven. Silver is the industrial metal of the two which is usually touted as one of the benefits. Maybe it's the downfall in this commodity cyclical downturn. The demographic cliff paints a decent picture of why the markets are fucked in general.
>>1162195
well the prices i look at when i hesitate on buying or selling is like this currently:
silver spot is $15.2
you can sell a 1oz coin for $15.6
you can buy a 1oz coin for $20.3 + 27% VAT ($25.78)
i mean this is crazy right? i can buy from estonia VAT free for about $20 but that is still a huge immediate loss of value to spot unless i try to sell to a private person competing with the shops but only an idiot would buy silver off some random dude even personally.
so for me to make some profit on this silver spot should go over $22.
>>1162189
>this is the part that i don't get, if there is a silver shortage and if the mining is not profitable at current levels how can it go under for a long time?
Conventional commodity wisdom would say it can't. The cure for low prices is low prices, as no one can afford to produce.
My personal opinion is that smart money drives prices down while waiting around for dumb money to enter and supply and demand numbers are all completely fabricated. When conditions are right for the public to rush into silver, smart money will have already accumulated massive positions and be able to control liquidity
>>1162220
>My personal opinion is that smart money drives prices down while waiting around for dumb money to enter and supply and demand numbers are all completely fabricated.
>When conditions are right for the public to rush into silver, smart money will have already accumulated massive positions and be able to control liquidity
yeah my thinking exactly, i just think i can ride the wave and make some profit.
i have this itch like a gut feeling that if i wait too long i will miss out for this particular reason. there won't be anything to buy.
you have to get into this upwave in time possibly while silver is still going down some but already undervalued and leave it in time before it reaches the summit where people are stumped by disbelief and they won't buy your shit.
so i would like to buy at $10 and sell at $30 or start selling at $20 in steps. i'm just not sure it will even fall to $10 given all the market conditions and the difference between official inflation and real inflation.
>>1162230
Dude just buy silver mining stocks. Bear Creek Mining (BCEKF) is one I've been watching since it was at .40. It hit 1.00 when metals spiked earlier this week and has been dropping since. I might buy if it hits .60s. They have some really good assets that theyve decided not to mine till they become proftable (~$20 spot).
I dont see how theres much room for profit in physical silver, what with fees and such. I just buy silver coins to collect as a hobby and to have in case of nuclear war or whatnot
I had HL at 1.80. Locked in a 48% gain little while back. Silver would need a 40% gain to reach 21-22. Hmm thinking if I should sell
>>1162239
even if you don't profit they will withstand inflation better than currency. real estate market is so fucked here it's a joke. no percentage to speak of in safe investments. i don't know shit about the economy i only understand the most basic principles so stocks are scary to be honest.
i want to do something with my money. i want to trade something. silver is just a small portion and more like a hobby on the side.
my national currency has a steady decline over the euro but the entire monetary system is just a big pile of debt growing bigger and bigger. i will soon reach the savings amount where i can no longer add to my savings by working because i will lose more to inflation than my wage. and if not that it's still diminishing returns.
>>1162252
dunno man, i watched a vid recently where a guy was trying to convince himself and all others that they shouldn't sell silver at $28-30 after 2011... silver is now under $15 if they sold and re-bought they would be way better off.
but they are waiting for everything to turn around since 2012-2013 and it can still go down if you look at it.
it's a gamble either way. i guess it all comes down to what you believe in.
Well to be honest, it's an excellent savings tool for delaying gratification. One starts to covert a impulse buy into oz of silver.
>>1162267
when i look at this pic i always ask the same question
is this gonna repeat now? are we gonna have a bounce before plummeting under for decades? is it even possible for silver to do that now? can i make profit on it?
Doubtful man. Think I should sell? I might take the cash and dump it into p2p lending. Be a Jew.
>>1162295
i still remember bitoin was like $10 i wanted to buy for $100 and i wanted to get into mining cause it fascinated me... i asked my family if they wanted to invest into it too, they talked me out of it. so i bought nada. then i just watched and watched and still can't believe what happened.
i'm not saying the same shit will happen to silver probably won't since they can just mine the shit out of it if it goes above $25.
but if i miss out on this bubble that's eventually coming too i'm gonna regret it for the rest of my life. gold has been shit to me in recent years it's much more stable than silver the "profit" i made on it probably doesn't even cover inflation so far.
>>1162081
These people are idiots.
What do you own? ASEs? Paper silver? Go to provident and split the buy/sell price. That's the lowest you ought to ask for what you have. Go on some coin/precious metals forums and sell your stack. Depending on what I have, I can liquidate several thousand dollars in silver in a day or two through forums. ASEs sell alright, junk silver sells better. If you have anything you expect numismatic value out of, you should expect to take even longer to sell or expect a loss to sell quickly.
>>1162289
Here you go
>>1162303
same here except with friends. even though I knew they know jack shit about bitcoin, and are just talking out of their asses thinking they are helping me or know stuff.
lesson learned anon, lesson learned.
>>1162239
>nuclear war
yea, I collect coins. I try to collect stuff that historically has increased in value, such as new release silver eagles and gold eagles, graded. Also older silver coins ungraded that i just stack for fun. Better than buying clothes or video games or car parts or whatever. Probably make a bigger gain by contributing all I spend on coins to a mutual fund, but its a hobby too, something I enjoy. At least some day I'll have a nice collection to pass on to my children or sell if I need.
(or use to trade for food/water after the nuclear winter)
>>1162334
except that consecutive bubbles tend to be bigger and bigger even inflation adjusted
also don"t think that the top hysteria spikes count that much in value dynamics.
>>1162344
>also don"t think that the top hysteria spikes count that much in value dynamics.
>current value is meaningless without those spikes
So you're saying you expect it to return to an inflation adjusted $6. So $8-12? Okay.
>>1162345
i say it is very much possible based on the historical data alone.
except i think the inflation adjustment is off scale because there was much greater real inflation than official. official inflation is easily tampered with by government policy and the central statistics bureaus.
so either we are scraping rock bottom soon until there is a financial crisis and gonna bounce back just a tiny bit short term or it will perform this jump up to $25-30 before hitting under $10 if i'm wrong about inflation.
>>1162349
I've been buying silver since it came back down below $20 again. I'm bearish on it right now. I am not using silver as an investment medium to get rich, I am using it because it will never go below $8-12. If it does, it will be a wonderful opportunity to long it, but I think you are far too bullish. I hope you aren't too heavily invested in silver. You should use it as a hedge, not a source of income.
Lately i collect these 5oz silver America The Beautiful coins (more like a hockey puck)... you can get'em for about $21/oz and they definately have numismatic value besides the intrinsic value. Some of the past years are really valuable now. Plus they are fucking cool.
>>1162345
>>current value is meaningless without those spikes.
that's totally wrong tho if you remove the largest spikes smoothed them out it's much more informative.
>>1162349
so here is my thinking i'm okay with both possibility, because if we hit rock bottom then i can hold silver for long as safety from coming inflation which i'm worried about. if it bounces i will do a hit&run and cash in then after it hits bottom under $10 i will hold.
only scenario where i get fucked if i buy now is if silver slowly descends into $6 and stays there for 30 years. highly unlikely with the market situation imo.
>>1162356
What if it only stays there for 5 years? 3 years?
What other investment vehicles do you use? What % of your retirement is in silver? Please answer both.
>>1162352
i'm a bit overexcited yes but did not bought any yet.
i plan doing my first buy if the currencies line up for it. (low eur/nc low silver/eur for a moment)
i don't think it will stay under $15 long term because the mining companies would all board up.
>>1162357
0% as of yet i'm willing to go up to 10% tops.
right now all my investments ran out i don't see good opportunities.
>>1162358
>i don't think it will stay under $15 long term because the mining companies would all board up.
What is the minimum that they are able to operate and still profit? Where are the resistance levels for miners? Do you have any hard numbers on this whatsoever? What do you know about the silver mining process? If you don't know much, what do you know about aluminum? Rare earth elements?
>>1162359
5-10% is the recommended maximum. I'm more heavily invested in silver than that but I am being more aggressive in other areas now.
>>1162361
i read a long paper on how it's around $18 to break even currently, and i heard this figure a lot also some real life examples companies making loss right now.
>5-10% is the recommended maximum
i know i have like 2-3% gold rest is cash and i find this state very unsettling the fiat currencies just go puff overnight, my national currency had about 300% inflation (relative to other currencies) in my lifetime and over 10000% in it's history, and the big currencies don't look too good either.
i don't want to sit on all this cash it's unsettling.
>>1162364
>i read a long paper on how it's around $18 to break even currently
Could you please link that paper? If you can't find it I'll understand.
Also, it isn't really recommended you keep too much cash either. Ideally you should have enough to cover any immediate costs, and the rest should be invested to earn more money.
>>1162367
wish i stared it but i found this
https://srsroccoreport.com/top-primary-silver-miners-results-q1-2015-still-losing-money-even-with-lower-costs
https://srsroccoreport.com/the-primary-miners-the-fed-18-silver/
>>1162367
i used to have some in state bonds but they don't give any meaningful percentage anymore.
i make more money by playing with the currency exchange rates between my accounts than what i get on any guaranteed investment.
i don't feel prepared to go play on the stock market and the real estate market as i wrote is fucked by gov.
>>1162125
Did you mean to press 7?
>>1162531
i'm not native english speaker or versed in financial vocabulary so it's possible i choose wrong words.
>>1162081
i didn't read the book but watched a lot of vids and interviews with the guy.
one thing is i'm sure that my country is utterly fucked age-tree wise. the country has 10 years according to this guy and then decades of economic deflation/currency hyperinflation.
I slept on it. I'll hold, just won't buy anymore.
My stack is comprised primarily of 10oz bars, 1oz rounds, and ASE.
>>1162796
ase is pretty overpriced
what i find is you should buy the least premium items those are the kg bars probably
or maple leaf which is probably the best value coin overall i just wish that bitch wasn't on it
>>1162334
Ah, $50 silver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Bunker_Hunt
The Hunt Brothers were a couple of crazy oil tards who tried to buy all the silver on the planet. COMEX shut them the fuck down to preserve the integrity of market, and they got blown the fuck out. Charged with price manipulation, bankrupt due to lawsuits, and that was basically the end of them as a force in /biz/ness.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most metals your only resale option is pawn shops or a specialty shop. APMEX will only buy from you if you have a minimum $1000 value
>>1162189
I said the same thing when oil was near $100/bbl and they were drilling like mad. The market is sometimes out of whack for years.
>>1162081
Why do you guys think silver will rise? Because it was once $40/oz? Interest rates are set to rise which is very bearish for metals. What else am I missing?
Check out Nautilus Minerals, this shit will explode if they success.
>>1163472
People are going to lose faith in fiat and the current financial system and where do they go when that happens? Precious metals.
Also, the gold to silver ratio (gsr) is at abnormally high levels, for it to return to a more normal ratio either silver needs to explode or gold needs to plummet.
Called the shop out of curiousity and they said for my bars it'd be 15.20/oz
Not bad for future possibilities. It's easy to buy, but was always curious to sell.
Mining firms aren't a great way to hedge inflationary environments. Every aspect of mining requires inputs that are inflationary driven. Metals into the machinery and oil to power them.
>>1163597
where are you located?
I`ll buy it off you..
Bay Area CA
>>1164197
ah...
I`m in the wrong part of the world...
norway :/
>>1162557
Gotcha. $7/Toz would be incredibly low.
>>1164210
it would be the absolute low where it would bounce back almost immediately.
>>1163597
>but was always curious to sell.
What the fuck are you talking about? Silver is one of the easiest things to sell. There are hundreds of places I could go in my city to sell it. You can't say that about practically anything else.
>>1163472
what you are missing is that the economy has no steam all revenue is artificially generated illusion by printing dollars like crazy.
it works for the moment but it can come down very quick.
when that happens for a short while metals go up then come down after all the retarded middle classers sold their stocks and bought metals at high spot.
do you guys check out silver before you buy it off an other anon?
like acid test and weighing on precision scale and ultrasounds?
>>1165486
Multimeters are $20 at home depot. Nothing resists electricity like silver, except silver.
>>1165595
yeah well silver plating is the most used method to make quality counterfeit so there goes your genius idea.
in fact even the magnetic properties of silver coins are now emulated with metal inserts.
>>1165673
Sorry, should have expanded on this for you plebes.
Multimeters are a good place to start, but your silver in question should pass multiple tests before you confidently buy.
The multimeter test coupled with the chime test would verify a plated coin.
>>1165693
chime test? the vibration is more dependent on geometry than material used.
>>1165716
>>1165716
Try taking a 1964 Kennedy Half-Dollar, blance it on your finger, and strike it with another coin. Note the pitch of the chime.
Now take a 1967 Kennedy Half-Dollar (same geometry), and do the same thing. Note the different pitch in the chime.
Different purities cause different pitches in same-shape objects.
>>1165744
that is surely true but i never held a piece of silver in my hand so i wouldn't know.
fist purchase and all.
isn't there some app that can tell by recording the voice and analyzing it?
>>1165747
>isn't there some app that can tell by recording the voice and analyzing it?
Not that I'm aware of.
>>1165760
my first useful app idea
damn
>>1165763
This could work similarly to how a guitar tuner works. You could have a bunch of pre-programmed geometries (coins, rounds, and bars) and have the meter give you a Purity reading based on the known pitches of a given geometry.
>>1165788
best thing about it it's probably impossible to make fake coins that pass this test and the weight and dimensions check also and not contain the rated silver.
>>1165790
Only trouble is non-standardized geometries like jewelry, but if you're buying precious metals as an investment you're NOT buying jewelry.
>>1165824
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYR3pT10C8
found something
>>1165832
Same anon as >>1165824 but I switched from my phone to my PC.
Not bad - I wonder if the type of surface on which you spin the coin would effect the frequency readings. I also noticed he spun the second coin slower than the first - would that effect the frequencies being read by the app? If so he could very well have manipulated his results...
>>1165857
the technique is wrong, too much noise that doesn't have to do with the coin and all.
balance on fingertip ping it with hard object it will give much clearer result.
