How many of you faggots still think index investing is superior to doing your own homework and picking stocks accordingly?
>>1098356
What does your homework entail that allows you to beat everyone else?
>>1098361
Buying undervalued stocks. Christ, read a Benjamin Graham book.
Dude sell. Wtf is wrong with you, OP. Who holds a stock that's up 90+%? Greedy fucker
>>1098364
Value investing is just trading for illiterate poorfags who want to buy a cheap stock and pray to god it goes up someday.
>>1098356
I know for a fact that indexing is superior to stock picking, and my results prove it.
my gains > your coin flips
>>1098356
I actually think index investing is stupid as fuck.
Before seeing all the Vanguard shills here I thought it was only for old people that buy bonds for family members as gifts.
>>1098377
>Value investing
>trading
Kek, another /biz/ idiot who thinks trading and investing are the same things.
>>1098381
Sauce on the picture?
>>1098380
Prove that isn't a paper account.
>>1098390
>Prove that isn't a paper account.
Newfags. Newfags everywhere.
>>1098410
prove you didn't suck 10 million dicks to get your principle, faggot
>>1098410
How much did you start with, and how long ago?
>>1098410
Hey iHaz, legitimate question from a novice investor:
Does the choice of index matter? For example, Vanguard S&P ETF or total market, or any internationals mixed in as well?
Also, what do you think about REITs/commodities to diversify further?
Dear god the newfags
Ihaz is a well known richfag here stop trying to shit on him, there's a lot to shit on but not his money
>>1098410
I'm jelly, not going to lie :0
>>1098427
Looks like 5 million based on his Vanguard history
>>1098424
>Does the choice of index matter? For example, Vanguard S&P ETF or total market, or any internationals mixed in as well?
Yes, selection of idex matters because it's important to diversify into multiple markets and asset classes.
If, for some reason, you can only choose one, then always choose Total Market over S&P 500. S&P 500 is only large-caps, are therefore excludes small-caps and mid-caps which are important for providing growth potential. And yes, internationals also add important market diversification as well.
The Four Fund Portfolio is the best starting point to construct a portfolio. REITs are a very strong fifth addition to the Four Fund Portfolio.
I'm not a fan of commodities. To me that's just adding risk without corresponding reward. There's no evidence that including commodities is accretive to long-term performance, and a fair amount of evidence that its harmful.
>>1098427
>If I recall correctly he inherited money
You're correct. I inherited $250K.
And I've earned $5,000,000 from my job, made $6,000,000 in the markets, and $3,000,000 in private equity profits.
But by all means, feel free to focus on the $250K. Kek.
Index investing is proven to be superior to all forms of investing and trading. Just read up on peer-review financial literature. Index investing outperforms value investing and day(option)trading. Index funds allow you to diversify and avoid losing a huge chunk of your money. These investors sailed through the 2008 crash and came out on top. Ihaz can prove it you as well. You can start by investing 10% of your salary a month and do monthly deposit into those index fund so you can watch it grow. Index funds historically returns 8% a year.
>>1098434
What do you do for work IHaz?
>>1098434
no you got called out for it being your dads fund
we need picture ID with your name on it and the name on the account with the account number to be able to prove it's actually your account and not your grand-daddy's account
>>1098380
Show us your picks plz
>>1098445
This.
>>1098445
>What do you do for work IHaz?
I'm an attorney.
>>1098450
>you got called out for it being your dads fund
Interesting theory. So I have access to my father's online Vanguard accounts and all his financial statements. Whereas I doubt your dad trusts you with his cigarettes.
But sadly, I must decline your request to post my "picture ID with your name on it and the name on the account with the account number."
>>1098453
>Show us your picks plz
I don't have "picks" (that's kinda the whole point of my post, and of this thread, btw).
My Vanguard account is a highly diversified mix of index funds and low-cost actively managed funds. Although it's about 40 separate funds, in the aggregate the core of my investments is highly similar to a Four Fund Portfolio. To that, I've added a number of additional Vanguard offerings that I consider suitable for my needs and risk tolerances.
>>1098444
Well stated. Although in fact an 80/20% equity/bond index portfolio actually returns closer to 10% historically. I don't know why people keep saying 7-8%, but perhaps they're omitting the dividends.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/saving-investing/model-portfolio-allocations
>>1098450
Identity theft? I'd think the paper statement would be proof enough.....
>>1098479
>all of his financial statements
Well, you're the one saying that, so I'll take your lead on it.
And, of course, you'd decline to prove that it's actually your account at all.
>muh proofs
>>1098479
You still post here man? They're not worth the help. All the original SFIG fags left because these shits aren't worth the effort. They will never listen. It's about getting rich quick.
It's akin to telling a nigger to invest in index funds instead of buying lotto tickets
>>1098489
Why do you even give a fuck how much he makes?
I hate attention whoring tripniggers as much as the next, but he hasn't said anything that isn't completely true.
Assume it's fake, whether it is or not, and focus on what you can prove.
>The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
>>1098489
I'm sorry that I'm not willing to hand you the tools necessary to gain access to my 8-figure investment account.
I suppose I shall have to find a way to live with the disappointment that my provided bone fides have failed to convince an anonymous user of an anime picture board.
>>1098494
I agree that board has gone downhill. That "Robinhood" thread is an abortion of delusion and ignorance.
Still, it never hurts to remind people from time to time that there is a smarter way to grow their wealth.
>>1098503
Robinhood thread is a completely different beast, people use it mostly as a first try for the stock market when they just have a few hundred to invest, there's no point in a vanguard at that level
I'd argue that you can still cherry pick stocks, you just have to think like a fund manager. Most people don't do this, especially when they're new.
Low income is awful, I have only 40k in indecies myself :(.
At least robinhood threads might lead them toward a more sensible investing style....
emphasis on the might :P
why don't you just spend all your money right now on things?
like a girlfriend.
One day I will be rich as that ihaz guy
Pulled out my eth monies which grew from 500$ to 2000$ , and now will do options trading
On my way to gazillions, wish me luck
>>1098444
>Index investing is proven to be superior to all forms of investing and trading. Just read up on peer-review financial literature.
Sauce dat nigga.
>Index funds allow you to diversify and avoid losing a huge chunk of your money.
You can achieve 90%+ diversification with 5 stocks. You also reduce gains with that much diversification. I'm willing to risk more to gain more.
>>1098508
>Robinhood thread is a completely different beast, people use it mostly as a first try for the stock market when they just have a few hundred to invest
Even still, it encourages the development of bad habits. Stock picking individual equities, frequent trading, disregard for normal costs and tax consequences. If and when those wannabe-Wolves of Wall Street get any real money, they're going to be starting at square zero (or worse).
>>1098546
>and now will do options trading
Yeah, good luck with that. Options are one of the many mistakes I made in the past. It wasn't until I stopped doing stupid things like options that I started making real gains.
>>1098519
>you just have to think like a fund manager
You mean the people who underperform the index 95% of the time? Great role models. Pic very much related.
>>1098571
>You can achieve 90%+ diversification with 5 stocks.
Kek. You actually watch Cramer and believe the bullshit he spouts? How sad for you,
Actually you'd need about 60 stocks to be 90% diversified, and even then you're looking at a statistically significant deviation from the index. That's before accounting for the cost of constructing this portfolio.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/11/illusion-of-diversification.asp
>You also reduce gains with that much diversification. I'm willing to risk more to gain more.
Typical gambler's fallacy: thinking that higher risk equates to higher rewards. No understanding at all of risk-adjusted returns or risk premiums.
Risk is fine. Risk is necessary. Risk without a risk premium is stupid. Don't be stupid,
Sad what gets taught to kids these days. Or doesn't get taught, I suppose would be more accurate.
>>1098582
hey.
buy sandridge. it's 5 or 6 cents a share, you could probably buy all the common stock tomorrow.
Here is mine. Gains were very good before the huge drop in the stock market. -80% is uwti. I had initially invested $3000 in it. I am very tempted to dump another $2000 into uwti.
>>1098582
So you recommend index funds over all else?
What are your thoughts about the current potential recession in the near future, planning to cash out or go for the long run?
>>1098356
NO ONE, can pick the correct stocks with regular frequency. Has never happened.
>>1098356
Dat survival bias.
Index has outperformed nearly everyone over the long-term.
Cya in 15 years :)
>>1098588
goddamn that's tempting.
>>1098627
With a market cap that small, it shouldn't be tempting...
There is no liquidity and you have a high likelihood of being stuck with the bag (of shit).
Enjoy!
>>1098410
Why is the pen covering up the chart for 2015? It looks like it fucking skyrocketed up that year, in which case im calling bullshit.
>>1098608
Except the various hedge funds which regularly outperform the market before they take their cut.
>>1098410
I don't disbelieve you, but what's to say that number isn't photoshopped?
>>1098582
>s&p 500 had an average of 6% ROI in the past 10 years
Holy Shit that's huge. That's not taken into account dividends.
>>1098831
Most hedge funds under-perform. There are only a handful of active funds that outperform that market. But those funds have years of under-performing. You're better off managing your own fund with multiple index fund investments. 80% in equities and 20% in bonds. During a market downturn invest in volatile and gold ETFs. The recent market downturn saw gold and volatile ETFs shootup 8% a day. You pull out when the regular market come back. This is how you short an ETF. The only time you should do it.
>>1098827
>It looks like it fucking skyrocketed up that year, in which case im calling bullshit.
Wow, Sherlock, you totally solved the case!
Or perhaps I cashed out of a substantial private equity investment in 2015 and deposited the proceeds in my Vanguard account?
>>1098606
>So you recommend index funds over all else?
Well, not necessarily over ALL else, but certainly over:
* individual stock picks
* options
* commodities or metals
* FOREX
* penny stocks
* leveraged funds; and
* shitcoins
That being said, while index fund should form the core of your portfolio, you should feel free to add additional investments once your portfolio value starts to mature. There are a few high quality, low-cost actively managed funds that I recommend without hesitation. Also, you might wish to add tax-managed funds if consistent with your tax planning strategies.
I'll also mention home ownership here, since that's a major investment that many people add to their "portfolio" at the right time in their life.
And when you finally hit true wealth and become an accredited investor, then we can talk about private equity, direct investment, private mezz financing, and alternative investing. I don't discuss these much on this site because there's not many (any?) who qualify.
So, no, it's not ONLY about index funds. But it's definitely where you should start.
>>1098870
I don't care whether you believe me or not. My wealth has nothing to do with the quality of my advice.
>>1098871
Be careful talking about ROI on this board. Very few understand the concept, and most don't know the difference between ROI and CAGR. They'll shit on index funds for "only" showing a 5-7% ROI. In any event, ROI usually isn't a useful comparison tool anyway since everyone's inflow timing is going to be different.
>>1098827
this
>>1098831
Except that you are not in a hedge fund and you aren't an accredited investor... so you don't even have access to invest with them.
You don't have the tools, training, work ethic, background, or abilities to pick stocks like the guys within hedge funds... and most hedge funds still lose money or underperform against the index - especially given enough time.
You may have a bit of success picking random stocks but eventually you will lose your shirt.
Indexing for you.
>>1098891
>I don't care whether you believe me or not. My wealth has nothing to do with the quality of my advice.
Strong talk from someone with an ID of iHaz Millionz on a board designed to be anonymous who posts pics of a multi million dollar account.
You can give out this good advice just as easily as an anonymous poorfag
But in all seriousness, how can this board believe a picture that can be easily photoshopped? Or perhaps you work for financial advisers and this is a client's account?
Also that infographic from before would be better showing long term total gains, not harping on beating the market almost every year. eg: a fund underperforming a market by 1% for 9 years then beating it by 50% in the 10th year underperformed 9/10 years but overall resulted a greater return. This is of course fantasy. A clearer view of the stats would be nice.
>>1098898
>Because rich people don't have hobbies and never browse 4chan.
>>1098891
>Owning property
Would you say this is something to do early or late in your investment life? I've been tossing up between investing in various index funds first and then going into property and doing the opposite, going into property first and then stocks.
Ausfag here
>>1098901
I never said they didn't. I just don't see this as solid proof.
>>1098905
>Would you say this is something to do early or late in your investment life?
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. I bought early, and I don't regret it. I paid off my 30 year mortgage in about 16 years, and now I live for "free" in an asset that appreciates far faster than the expenses needed to maintain it. My house has been one of my better performing investments.
But, I had a lot of income, and that allowed me to accomplish home ownership AND still make substantial investments in my tax-deferred and taxable investment accounts.
If your circumstances require you to choose one over the other, then I'd probably say to buy the funds. The additional growth generated by early compounding will help bridge the gap later when you divert money to a home purchase.
That's the best advice I can give in a general sense to what is a very individual question.
>>1098906
>I just don't see this as solid proof.
And how, exactly, do you expect me to prove how much money I have without revealing any personal information? Ponder on that question, and you'll understand why, at the end of the day, I don't really care if you believe me because there is no such thing as "solid proof" that doesn't expose my identity.
So I provide what I can, and let my 2 years of posts speak for themselves. Posts which you, I gather, have never seen because you're obviously new to the board. Welcome.
>>1098426
iHaz is the biggest samefag on this board and also a fraud. He's been caught samefagging multiple times and doesn't have anything to say about it.
>>1098962
>iHaz is the biggest samefag on this board and also a fraud.
I'm Jewish too. Can't believe you left that out.
I shouldn't have to do your work for you, lazy bitch.
>>1098998
Jewish? I could care less if you're missing some cockskin. I just find it funny you manage to stick that cock in your mouth in every thread you're in. It's disgusting to watch you suck yourself off. We all know your "defenders" are really you, you're not fooling anyone. Although there are faggots in this board, even they don't like you. After 2 years it is sad and pathetic that you are still here and still making the same bullshit claims and the same repetitive posts.
>>1099014
I don't know who he is, but you sound like a butthurt faggot
>>1099020
You do know who he is iHaz. Lmao so pathetic
>>1099014
>>1099024
>>1099024
Stay mad family, lmao smdh tsk tsk tsk
*Insert le ghetto emoji*
>>1099047
I literally have no idea what you're talking about, and I literally couldn't care less.
Have a nice life kid.
Invest safely. If you want to speculate, then do so with options.
>>1099060
>acts like he doesn't know what a samefag is
>acts like he doesn't samefag
Suuuuuure buddy. There are a lot of us who have been around for more than a few months and we haven't forgot the times you got caught samefagging. As for you really being rich? It seems super sketchy and is not likely considering how hard you samefag. If you go to the trouble of changing IDs then I don't put it past you to photoshop some "evidence". You lost all credibility a long time ago my friend.
>>1099060
Other than indexes, what else do you invest in? I'm looking to put my paychecks into something I can use to beat inflation and low interest rates.
>>1099071
Do you have any evidence of this when it happened? Archives?
>>1098953
What do you think about owning SP500 index funds and selling options? Been selling calls until my position gets pulled and then puts until I get assigned again. I do try to time the market in a sense where I don't pick a strike I expect the market to each. Last year I did 10% in an even market and have been outperforming SPY 3 years running.
>>1099078
Yea it's all over the archives.
>>1098998
>Jewish
It's all so clear now
>>1099071
Did I photoshop my law degree, and did I photoshop my LSAT score report too? I posted photos of both of them too.
But look, I get it. You don't believe me. You think I'm a liar, and I change IDs, and I killed your puppy, and I definitely fucked your mom. That's cool man; you keep on being you.
>>1099086
>Yea it's all over the archives.
[citation missing]
>>1099080
>What do you think about owning SP500 index funds and selling options?
Not a fan. I understand the ability to micromanage risk is attractive in the short-term, especially with recent market volatility. But its not a viable long-term strategy.
I can't provide you with direct evidence that matches your strategy exactly, but let's look at the relative performance of the S&P 500 Index and the S&P 500 Covered Call Index, which simulates a buy-write strategy. Over the last 5 years, you paid a 17% penalty with the buy-write strategy. While I understand that the results will be different in declining markets, the fact remains that falling markets are significantly fewer and shorter than rising markets. Not to mention, the tax consequences are terrible (STCG and OI -- yuk). As such, I have a hard time rationalizing the utility of the strategy.
I certainly haven't done exhaustive research on this, but I reviewed it sufficiently to dismiss it for my portfolio.
>>1099105
>killed your puppy
Not really. I know for a fact you samefag like a little bitch and can prove it with archives. The rest is just speculation. It's just that knowing youre a lying faggot puts everything else you say under question - even your supposed "proof" of your wealth. It may not be photoshopped but because it is so easy to shoop and because of the incredible effort you take to samefag and seek validation for yourself, my guess is it's bullshit. I would bet good money on that.
>>1099119
>Then you delete your post and repaste it... everything you do and say is super sketchy.
Fixing a typo is super sketchy?
But you make some really legitimate points and don't seem psychotic or obsessed in the slightest.*whistling*
>>1099123
>because I'm the one who makes the exact same repetitive posts month after month and seeks validation so much that I post the same "proof" of wealth and tripfag and samefag every thread I'm in
>but I'm the one with issues
Kek
...oooookay bro. Whatever you say...
>>1098380
Holy fuck.
Lmao at all the asshurt fags in this thread. Their denial is amusing and delicious at the same time. Doing God's work there iHaz.
>>1098410
Perfect example of why you clear your desk before you leave the office for the night. Some after hours janitor will walk by, snap a pic and play rich kid on the internet for validation.
>>1099285
>denial
>>1099287
>truth
>>1098953
That's a great reply, thanks. Just sitting on a modest lump of savings and have a decent income but I don't know if I'd be able to maintain both mortgage repayments as well as investing in funds
>>1098356
Hi what are some good sites, forums, and books you would recommend for newbz? Thanks
>>1099281
This. Thanks for the good advice iHaz. This board doesn't deserve it.
So do I just call my credit union and ask them about investing in index fund?
I don't know any financial lingo by the way.
>>1099123
Hey iHaz, new investor here. I'm Canadian and I recently opened a tax free savings account.
My plan at the moment is to put four index funds into it. My bank pushed mutual funds a lot but I have access to a lot of index funds. The four in the picture are the ones im deciding on. I know you posted a vanguard picture so im assuming you go with vanguard and theres a vanguard Canada. Am I better off buying Canadian vanguard indexes or my banks cheap MER indexs. See pic related and thanks for the input.
>not realizing that you can actually pick stocks
>not having the balls to put your money where your mouth is
>not being up 50% for the month
This is why I'll always heckle iFag.
>muh slow and steady
>muh turtle investing
Seriously low energy like iYeb!
>>1099549
Let's not get all tingly and warm though. He is still autistic and relentlessly spams daytrading/quant threads, wheter or not statements are posted. He has a thing for dubious 30years ago studies conducted on the Taiwan exchange, and apparently that only allows him to disprove active investing.
The image he posted before just cherrypicks a few underperformers, chants the glory of index funds with the benefit of hindsight, and similar amenities. He is really rich tho,but he is more likely to be a trust fund babby with a Vanguard account. Who knows. But his relentless autism, bragging and samefagging truly do not help his case.
But hey, let's not make mistakes here since the overwhelming majority of the posters replying to him is far more autistic and frustrated than he is
>>1099738
>he is really rich tho
Kek
>posters replying to him are autistic
Poossssibly. The good news though is that if I come off as autistic, I am just an anonymous voice in the crowd. I can goad him all I want and not even feel slightly embarrassed. However, his frustration and desperation for acceptance will always be connected to his trip every time he uses it. I don't think he realizes how many people here pity him.
>>1099567
>So do I just call my credit union and ask them about investing in index fund?
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
>>1099655
Those fees aren't terrible, but they're not great either. Vanguard's fees for their major index funds are closer to 0.1%, which is one-third to one-fifth lower than the TD funds offered by your bank,
Fees matter, a lot. Even small spreads like this make a significant difference over long periods of time, which is what you're planning for. If you have the ability to switch to lower-cost fees without disrupting your savings plans, then you should do so.
(If you're stuck with those TD funds for now, that's ok; it's not the end of the world. Just move them to lower cost options when the opportunity exists.)
>>1099738
>that only allows him to disprove active investing
How am I, an attorney, going to disprove active investing? I have neither the credentials nor the resources to do the research necessary to publish an academic study on the subject.
Fortunately, there are many, many smart researchers -- including Nobel Prize winners -- who have already done that work. And, in the finest tradition of peer-reviewed scientific research, they've made their studies available to us to read and understand.
Being interested in money, I've read a great many of those studies. If you took the time, you could read them too.
Active trading is a failed strategy, true, but I'm not the one who proved it. You seem to think that attacking the messenger somehow invalidates the message. The world doesn't work that way.
>>1099832
>how many people here pity him
It's nice that people can show empathy towards a fellow human. It's hard to remember that all of us have more in common than the differences that separate us. You're probably poor, uneducated, and live in squalor in some third-world hovel. My own experiences can't compare to that at all.
But we can still feel mutual empathy. Great post, kid. Thanks.
>>1099846
>appeal to authority fallacy
>>1099846
>It's nice that people can show empathy towards a fellow human. It's hard to remember that all of us have more in common than the differences that separate us. You're probably poor, uneducated, and live in squalor in some third-world hovel. My own experiences can't compare to that at all.
Haha I don't think you realize how cringeworthy this sounds. Then you wonder why we pity you. Some day you might get some realization about yourself. Some day.
>>1099846
>Those fees aren't terrible, but they're not great either. Vanguard's fees for their major index funds are closer to 0.1%, which is one-third to one-fifth lower than the TD funds offered by your bank,
Fees matter, a lot. Even small spreads like this make a significant difference over long periods of time, which is what you're planning for. If you have the ability to switch to lower-cost fees without disrupting your savings plans, then you should do so.
(If you're stuck with those TD funds for now, that's ok; it's not the end of the world. Just move them to lower cost options when the opportunity exists.)
Thanks for the thoughtful answer. The thing is TD has a 75 dollar fee to transfer accounts.. And my TFSA max allowed contribution is 36k, I plan to max it out in the next few months because I have the disposable income.
Nonetheless can you link me these low (MER) vanguard indexes. Also do Americans have a tax free savings account option as well?
Again thanks for the thoughtful answer
>>1099859
Fucked up the format on this haha, also wanted to add that Canadian mutual funds have abnormally high (MER) 2.10% was TD banks offer... and I could only apply for index options through sending them a letter in the mail, going to the brank or calling wouldnt let me pick any of their indexes.. so when I found these 0.30% MER from TD i thought i found something very worthwhile
PS sorry for any typos im typing this pretty quickly.
>>1099846
>including Nobel Prize winners
Who,Merton and Scholes? kek, they did one hell of a good work with their LTCM
And no, don't worry i am not bashing passive investing, nor will never hear me doing such a thing. When your equity reaches a certain size, you encounter liquidity issues that make active management/trading of your assets not attractive at all.
As of me, i have worked for 2 years in a prop (later stopped and worked in my original field), i know a lot of guys in the buy side who retired as traders. I assure you the Ph.Ds in the industry are not getting paid to slam their dicks around.
While you post cute excel spreadsheets, i can enlighten you with this image. That's right, a bullshit moving average crossover vastly outperforms your index funds, while reducing the maxDD. No overfitting involved. I hope you realize the autism of your ways and stop posting
>>1099865
>GETTING THIS FUCKING #REKT
>>1098479
>>My Vanguard account is a highly diversified mix of index funds and low-cost actively managed funds.
Well what are your index /fundspicks?
>>1099846
Hey iHaz, given that you've been posting here for so long and you're so open with sharing information, would you be kind enough to put together a guide for new/young investors? I believe in your advice, and if you made a guide, I'd totally follow it along with a lot of other anons I presume
>>1099914
Samefag.
>>1099921
Hey man, he advocates passive investing which I'm interested in. I'm not saying there are no other/better ways (mostly cause I'm a noob), but he seems to know his way around this topic, so why not compile it in a helpful guide for others interested on /biz/?
>>1099952
Would be cool tbqh senpai
>>1098385
Clearly not, retard. Nobody indexing has made money this year.
>>1099859
I don't know much about investing in Canada, but I did find the following list of Vanguard Canada's ETFs.
https://www.vanguardcanada.ca/individual/etfs/etfs.htm
>Also do Americans have a tax free savings account option as well?
Yes, ours are called 401ks, IRAs, HSAs and many other designations. But because every country has different tax laws and market systems, you should look for advice from a source specific to your country. In the U.S., we have a site called bogleheads.org that provides comprehensive information abou index investing. In Canada, the closest equivalent is the Financial Wisdom Forum and their wiki located at:
http://www.finiki.org/wiki/Getting_started
>>1099853
>appeal to authority fallacy
No, it's actually a legitimate argument from authority. A legitimate argument from authority can take the general form:
* X holds that A is true.
* X is an authority on the subject.
* The consensus of authorities agrees with X.
* There is a presumption that A is true.
It is only a logical fallacy if one of the above statements is false. Since all of these statements are true, the argument is logical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Whether it's true or not can still be debated, of course. However, you'd have to provide contrary evidence of equal stature and significance, though, which you're unable to do,
Thus endeth the lesson.
>>1099856
Thanks for your continued concern about my well-being. It's nice that even knowing that I have millions of dollars, a carefree life, and unlimited freedom, you can still feel empathy towards me. You're a prince, kid.
>>1099865
I was referring to Eugene Fama from the University of Chicago.
http://www.chicagobooth.edu/faculty/directory/f/eugene-f-fama
>While you post cute excel spreadsheets
I haven't posted any excel spreadsheets, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Good luck with your manufactured evidence, and I hope your strategy proves wildly successful for you.
>>1099990
>even knowing that I have millions of dollars
That's the thing. Nobody here knows you have millions of dollars because you don't have millions of dollars lol. The only thing we know for certain is that you're a tool.
>>1099990
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
It's important to note that this fallacy should not be used to dismiss the claims of experts, or scientific consensus. Appeals to authority are not valid arguments, but nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence. However it is, entirely possible that the opinion of a person or institution of authority is wrong; therefore the authority that such a person or institution holds does not have any intrinsic bearing upon whether their claims are true or not.
Example: Not able to defend his position that evolution 'isn't true' Bob says that he knows a scientist who also questions evolution (and presumably isn't a primate).
>>1099952
>>1099966
>taking investment advice from some autistic tripfag who is so insecure about his gorillions that he needs to shill them on a chinese image forum
The tripfag has literally no idea what he is doing, which is why he is so obsessed with diversification and mental gymnastics about his index fund being the best thin there is. Don't worry, he is gonna stop posting for a while once he will realize how good it fares in a bear market
>>1099990
>denial
Listen bub, maybe being an attorney means that you are used to peddle bullshit with a pedantic tone for a living, but nobody gives a shit here.
As for the manufactured evidence, i have yet to understand your end game since your posts provide zero quality and zero contenents whatsoever, besides your autistic and sterile amusement, and desperate looking for approval from a cohort of neckbeards online. Which kinda puts the whole "I've got mullionz he he xD" thing in question
But afraid not, i'm here to educate you nonetheless.
>>1099888
>Well what are your index /fundspicks?
>>1099914
>a guide for new/young investors?
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
I don't believe in recreating the wheel. Assuming you're from the U.S., everything you need to get started in already right there. Good luck, and feel free to ask any questions you might have. The bogleheads.org forum is active and helpful to young investors.
>>1099986
>indexing has made money this year.
Indexing is a long-term wealth growth strategy. We don't measure success by short term movements of the market, which are proven to be random in any event. Market turbulence, and even downturns, are inevitable and unavoidable. Studies have proven that the best approach is to stay the course.
Hope that was clear.
>>1100018
>studies
>short term movements of the market are random
This is the guy you are taking financial advice from, everyone.
Meanwhile, let's keep going
TOPS OF KEKS
>>1100015
>are not valid arguments, but
You don't seem to understand the difference between a logical fallacy and the merits of an argument itself. An argument can employ sound logic, and still be incorrect, just as an argument can be correct, but presented using faulty logic.
If you want to debate the merits of indexing, then make an argument on the merits. I'm more than capable of engaging in debate with you on this topic.
>>1100016
>tripfag who is so insecure about his gorillions that he needs to shill them
I'm not sure how I would "shill" my "gorillions" to anyone. My "gorillions" are not for sale, and I have no financial interest in convincing people to invest one way or another.
Ironically enough, if it could be said that I have any financial stake, it would be that people like you keep on doing what you do: trade indiscriminately, pick individual stocks, and try to time the markets. Your mistakes are what make indexing so attractive and successful.
So, by all means, please keep on doing what you do. It's been extraordinarily lucrative to me so far.
>he will realize how good it fares in a bear market
I stuck to the index principles through the entire 2008 financial crisis and never wavered. That makes today's market chop look like a calm ripple. And my discipline was rewarded by my net worth being tripled in 6 years. Tripled.
If anything, the last bear market convinced me that indexing is the best strategy. When/if we find ourselves in another bear market, you can rest assured that I'll stay the course.
>looking for approval from a cohort of neckbeards online
Don't be so hard on yourself, kid. If you're not having fun here, then go outside and play. Life's too short.
>>1100058
you're arguing with butthurt faggots bro bro
waste of time desu
>>1100058
Don't know why you're getting so much hate, but then again I'm fairly new to /biz/. From what I've seen so far, though, is, in my eyes, sound logic from your side.
>>1100058
Don't you have a few stocks you pick yourself, a very small portion of your portfolio or something?
I was planning to put most of my savings into some kind of index fund but I would also like to get some experience in picking a few myself.
>>1099990
>I don't know much about investing in Canada, but I did find the following list of Vanguard Canada's ETFs.
>https://www.vanguardcanada.ca/individual/etfs/etfs.htm
>>Also do Americans have a tax free savings account option as well?
>Yes, ours are called 401ks, IRAs, HSAs and many other designations. But because every country has different tax laws and market systems, you should look for advice from a source specific to your country. In the U.S., we have a site called bogleheads.org that provides comprehensive information abou index investing. In Canada, the closest equivalent is the Financial Wisdom Forum and their wiki located at:
>http://www.finiki.org/wiki/Getting_started
Do you think it wise to just go with the moderate MER my bank offers index wise, maxing out ym tax free savings account and then everything else into sepperate vanguard investments or should I put my vanguard as much as I can into my TFSA?
>>1100037
>Is there a difference between investing strategies in US/EU?
In terms of strategy, no. At a high level there are some currency issues to consider, but that's not critical to getting started. What's primarily different are the types of investment vehicles and the ways to invest,
If you're in the EU, the start here:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/EU_investing
>what's a lower bound sum for starting to invest?
No one right answer, but generally I'd say at least $3000 free cash that you have no need to use in the next 5-10 years, after establishing an appropriate emergency fund.
Also, you shouldn't invest unless you also have a steady and reliable income (wages/salary). Investing is not for making money. It's for taking the money you make from your labour and growing it into wealth over your lifetime.
>>1100037
>is there a pattern there that I'm missing?
No, he's just trolling. Or perhaps he's the kind of person who sees animal shapes in the clouds.
Most academics and intelligent people believe that the stock market is inherently random, but subject to a positive long-term bias due to external factors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk_hypothesis
We take advantage of that inherent long-term positive bias by investing for the long-term in diversified low-cost equities and bonds (indexes). It's been an extremely successful strategy historically, outperforming the average investor by 4-8% year after year.
>>1100078
There are some other obvious reasons, but partially it's because I don't shy away from telling stock pickers, day traders, and wannabe-Wolves of Wall Street that they're making huge mistakes with their money. No one likes to be told that they're pissing their own money away. No one likes to be confronted with evidence that their "investment" strategy has only a 5% chance of beating the index, especially since they all believe they're the special snowflake who will beat the odds.
>>1100018
>bogleheads
>intentionally ignore opportunities like the drop in oil prices and just invest in low risk funds whatever the weather
So you saved most of the capital you earned at your high end job and doubled your money in ~10 years or so for about the market average annualized returns. I'm sure you made very sensible investments, unfortunately this isn't feasible for most of the plebs here who can only invest maybe 10% of their income unless they want to literally follow the "use both sides of toilet paper" style advice in a frugal thread. The most they can hope for in life is to save for their retirement so they don't die in poverty after the US economy collapses due to Greece-like socialist governments, climate change and overpopulation.
Why couldn't you, for instance, pull a proportion of money out of indexes and put it into a potential opportunity whenever one arises? Are we really that useless? I beat the market average trading paper from 2013 to 2015 before I stopped due to the china bubble popping and volatility suggesting the bull market was over, worst case scenario a stock doesn't do what I predicted, but because I didn't choose a company that was going to collapse any time soon it only goes down 10% in the short term before rising back up a year or so later. Most likely my money does nothing or I gain 10% to 20% returns in a few months.
>>1100037
Yes.
The individual investor can easily outperform the benchmark using trend following strategies, while minimizing drawdowns. Since liquidity is not an issue, you can make in a couple of months what indexfags do in a year, provided you know what you are doing, and providing you are not dealing with millions
The kind of knowledge required to create and execute such a system requires years to be obtained, which explains the high mortality of newbie investors who attempt active management.
http://www.trendfollowing.com/clarke_worldwide.html
>>1100058
>And my discipline was rewarded by my net worth being tripled in 6 years. Tripled.
And i'm very impressed. Should have been fun losing more than 56% of your equity in 2009 without being able to do anything about it. This is called being a degenerate gambler, not a wise investor.
Again, i posted tons of evidence in favor of active investing. You just wave around dubious chinese stock market studies, even more dubious financial statements and long and pedantic posts with no real contents whatsoever.
That being said, i don't pick stocks, just apply trend following quant strategies on a basket of commodities, indices, currencies and fixed income. I have been doing it for years and making handome money. I will keep doing it
Again, i believe you should go doing something more productive with your time and your more or less imaginary millions. Considering that for a 10M dollars man you waste so much time on 4chan to indulge your autistic tendencies and your wild fantasies
>>1100102
>I have been doing it for years and making handome money.
proofs. i need proofs
>>1100058
So question. Vanguard is by far and away the cheapest fund manager.
I have a hard time believing that they can get away with being so low cost. The difference in fees is too huge.
Most places charge 100+ basis points while Bogle goes <=25 basis points.
What's the secret sauce or catch on their end?
>>1100089
>Don't you have a few stocks you pick yourself, a very small portion of your portfolio or something?
Yes, I allow myself to make discretionary picks for about 5% of my portfolio (max). Currently only about 2% of my portfolio is invested in individual stocks and ETFs.
And before I get jumped on by the autist critics, I've never said that you have to be 100% index to make the strategy work. If you read up in the thread, you see that I nothing against other types of investments, including even actively managed funds (as long as it's the right kind of actively managed fund).
I think many committed bogleheads similarly allow themselves a small allocation for individual picks. As long as you stay disciplined with the balance of your portfolio, it's not going to harm your long-term prospects.
>>1100091
Without knowing a lot more about you and your financial circumstances and goals, I can't give that kind of detailed advice. Especially not for Canada. The general rule is to max out your tax-advantaged savings before making deposits to a taxable investment account. But exceptions do exist.
I'd suggest you visit the Financial Wisdom Forums that I linked above. You'll be able to get plenty of informed advice from fellow countrymen. A fewer trolls.
>>1100096
>Why couldn't you, for instance, pull a proportion of money out of indexes and put it into a potential opportunity whenever one arises?
If you actually read my posts (including the ones in this thread) you'll see that have nothing against doing exactly this. Index funds should be the core of your portfolio, but don't have to be 100% of your holdings. And yes, if life presents you with a good financial opportunity, you should take it.
The problem is understanding the difference between a financial opportunity and a gamble. Market timing isn't a "opportunity" -- it's a coin flip. It's nice that you got lucky and guessed right, but it's not a viable long-term approach.
>>1100115
>Vanguard is by far and away the cheapest fund manager.
No its not. Schwab and Fidelity have equally low-cost index funds and ETFs, among many others. The industry has matured and competition for index dollars has gotten fierce, all to the benefit of smart investors. Vanguard was first, no doubt, but there perfectly acceptable alternatives today
I personally recommend Vanguard for three reasons:
First, Vanguard is investor owned. Which means that the index funds themselves own the parent company, Vanguard. Therefore, profits made by Vanguard (the parent) benefit the funds. As such, there is no perverse profit incentive to raise management fees. Schwab and Fidelity are not investor-owned.
Second, Vanguard has contracted with some highly skilled active fund managers and offers some of the finest low-cost actively managed funds in the world. To be able to get PRIMECAP, Wellington, Lazard, Oak Tree, William Blair and other advisory services at a fraction of what they charge their retail clients is a real bargain.
Third, it has an incredibly broad array of index funds. This doesn't matter much with a Four Fund strategy, of course, but some people (like me) take a somewhat surgical approach to portfolio construction. I like the ability to tweak very specific asset class, country, sector, and market allocations using individual funds.
>>1100124
I don't think you're lying about your strategy or earnings -- thought it wouldn't matter much if you are. Indexes give decent, reliable returns, so it makes sense to me.
My question to you is: why haven't you bought any businesses? There are a lot of low-margin companies that can quickly compound to hundreds of k in profit. Particularly - tech companies are easy to bootstrap and give good returns. Why haven't you invested in any startups in exchange for equity? I've made millions doing this and they're not hard to pick.
>>1100058
it's not the argument itself. it's YOU. you're appealing to authority because you can't back up what you're saying.
>>1100102
>you can make in a couple of months what indexfags do in a year
>The kind of knowledge required to create and execute such a system requires years to be obtained
These are exactly the kinds of statements that should make the new investor cringe and run for the hills.
Beware of anyone who promises you fantastical returns, many multiples higher than you could get elsewhere, but warns that you'll need special knowledge, special tools, or special guidance. They're liars and shills, and -- protip -- never provide proof of their ridiculous claims.
I'll be honest here: indexing isn't going to make a poor person fabulously wealthy. It's not going to outperform other strategies by 2x, 3x, 10x or anything close. It's not going to swell your bank account by tomorrow, by next month, or even by next year.
But here's the truth: Indexing will beat the average investor by about 4-6% per year, according to the Dalbar studies. That will add up to quite a bit of money, given enough time. It'll let a poor person have a comfortable retirement, and it'll let an average earner experience financial freedom in their lifetime.
Those are pretty worthy goals, I think.
>>1100158
>why haven't you bought any businesses?
I have. I've invested millions of dollars in private equity and direct investments. I've made incredible profits off those investments.
But I don't spend a lot of time talking about those investments here because not many people on /biz/ have the ability to get into those investments. There's maybe three accredited investors that have ever visited this broad, myself included. There's not many who have the freedom to invest in $100K blocks with no need to see visible returns for years.
On the few occasions that I've ever received intelligent questions about my PE investments, I've answered. But I'm not going to trot it out in a random discussion thread about indexing versus stock picking. What purpose would it serve?
>>1098410
Started with $5 million
Dude you were already a rich faggot, you can play riskier stocks with your trust fund still holding millions more
>>1100178
I don't follow your logic. If a person doesn't have 50 - 100k to invest in businesses and "not see a visible return for years" - what makes you think index investing is a good idea? What you described basically is the definition of index investing.
I think in general your advice is sound advice for people who already have what most people would consider fairly significant cash flows, but I think for other people the best advice is still to buy or start their own business and forget about the market.
>>1100178
>I have. I've invested millions of dollars in private equity and direct investments
Please enlighten me. I have 2m € to my name and would like to put them to work. Assuming you can offer advice for someone living in Europe of course.
>>1100185
You guys always hate on ihaz but his posts are the only non shit thing spouted on the board
>>1100197
I didn't start with $5 million. If you're basing that off the chart on my portfolio statement, you should know that's only a 5-year trend line. I've been doing this for a lot longer than five years.
My first deposit to Vanguard was $3000, and I purchased an S&P500 index fund. Just like every other normal person.
I don't have more than most people because I started with more. I have more than most people because I had a *very* high salary that I invested smartly.
I've never claimed to be a rags-to-riches story, in any event. I come from a professional upper-middle-class home with parents that supported my development in all respects, including financially. I consider myself very fortunate in that respect.
None of this has any impact on the quality of my advice, of course. But since you asked ... no, I never had a trust fund.
>>1100243
>If a person doesn't have 50 - 100k to invest in businesses and "not see a visible return for years"
In order to devote $100K to a risky investment, you'd want at least 10x that in something safer. So having $100K isn't want makes it possible to invest with confidence in private equity; it's having $1MM,
The reality is that private equity, direct investment, mezz financing, and other alternative investments are suitable for a very small cross-section of investors, very few of which frequent Taiwanese cartoon boards.
>start their own business
Completely different animal. Entrepreneurial undertakings aren't traditional investments in any real sense because they involve a massive set of external risks and considerations.
I have a lot of respect for those who take the entrepreneurial plunge, but I don't consider it an alternative to indexing. Apples and oranges.
>>1098380
Nice 1 year + returns
>>1100245
>I have 2m € to my name and would like to put them to work. Assuming you can offer advice for someone living in Europe of course.
I don't know enough about EU securities laws to know what your circumstances make available to you.
Do you have any existing relationships with investment bankers or someone in private equity? The kinds of investments that I've used have primarily come through work connections, family and friends. If you don't get exposure to these opportunities in your normal life, you're probably going to need to go through a financial advisor.
What a narcissist.
Tell us .. what hurt you? Where did he touch you?
>>1100115
Are you Chinese?
>>1100287
Fair enough. How high is the bond position in your portfolio, if I might ask?
>>1100308
>How high is the bond position in your portfolio
About 15% currently, though I'm working to push it to 20% organically over the near-term. I'll probably hold at 20% for the next five years.
I don't need (or want) the income, but I'm getting to the point in life when a little less volatility is welcome.
iHaz, what do you think about the current market? Good time to invest in something like an S&P500 index fund? Do you just buy and hold, regardless of what the market is currently doing or do you attempt to time the market somewhat?
I prefer investing in ETFs and rotating sectors. e.g. selling oil and commodity ETFs after they peak, and then buying them up again before they inevitably recover
>>1100477
Haha this is the absolute worst thread on 4chan right now. The majority of the posts are made by a tripfag and a ton of other posts are made by him samefagging. You can tell the frequency of samefagging by the amount of times that a new ID makes 1 or 2 posts then is never to be seen in the thread again. It goes something along the lines of this:
>hey iHaz since you have millions and all and offer great advice can you tell me what to do in x and y situation?
Or
>hey why are you guys all butthurt about iHaz? Is it because he is insanely rich and super smart?
There's a couple things wrong with this. First, I refuse to believe there are so many kissasses on this board. The responses in his defense contain more faggotry than the rest of the board combined. Second, his advice isn't all that original. You can get it from 10 seconds of reading anything by Bogle and it all can be condensed into one sentence "Buy Vangaurd index funds". That's it. That's his entire advice. He's just a complete douchebag so it comes out 1000% more verbose than it really needs to be. Then he regurgitates it oooover and over for at least a couple years and then samefags to try and make it seem like people really need his advice. Honestly? I think the guy has mental problems. I usually don't respond to these shit threads but fucking hell I can't take it any more after months and months of seeing this.
I work for General Dynamics, I know alot of older guys who put all there money into GD stock, being old timer company men and all, and that has beat the market for the past 40 years. Same thing can be said for berkshire hathaway. Not saying thats a good idea, but it debunks the idea that no one can beat the market long term.
>>1098434
Are u also a navi seal with over 500 confirmed kills?
>>1100477
>Good time to invest in something like an S&P500 index fund? Do you just buy and hold, regardless of what the market is currently doing or do you attempt to time the market somewhat?
I don't try to predict the future, so no I don't believe in market timing. All academic research suggests that timing errors are one of the two biggest reasons that the average investor underperforms the market.
While timing does have an effect on your performance, obviously, there's really nothing you can do about it. No one in the world can predict market tops or bottoms. And, fortunately, the passage of time tends to minimize the impact of timing anyway.
As such, the best time to invest is when you have money to invest.
>>1100630
>Are u also a navi seal
Navi?
>>1100663
At least you have a talent for wasting a ton of words to say so little. Kudos to you iHazn't.
>>1100585
>1000% more verbose than it really needs to be. Then he regurgitates it oooover and over for at least a couple years and then samefags to try and make it seem like people really need his advice. Honestly? I think the guy has mental problems. I usually don't respond to these shit threads but fucking hell I can't take it any more after months and months of seeing this.
Which is why we can all agree on calling him out on his own autism. But it's not like it's my problem anyway, computational investing/active management is not for everyone. But i have made multiple threads in the past, discussing quant strategies, risk management modules, recursivity and profitability of certain patterns.
All wasted time, iHaz and his autistic minions/sockpuppets came in no time and started regurgitating memes and worthless studies debunked 40 years ago. There was one guy who used to scalp S&P for a living, another one who shared his insights on quantitative investing and how to create a portfolio. Another tripfag was bretty gud with forex and frquently posted his stats
These guys no longer post here anymore. Just relentless autism, shilling scamcoins and robinhood threads. Which is a shame, because index investing is not bad per se, and it's probably the best investment for the large majority of investors. But it's still a suboptimal way of investing.
>>1101025
You sound right friend, I wonder though, how much of this thread is people backing IHaz into a corner because they can't accept he has 10 million dollars and demanding proof so much, he can't really breathe a bit and share true advise because iHaz is defensive, worried that people are trying to steal his money with the info.
If people would just stop caring so much about trivial bullshit and accept his advice on face value and do whatever they wanted with it, he could have been more forthcoming with advise and honest.
>>1098410
Teach me, sensei.
>>1101044
I don't think I've ever seen faglord give good advice, and I've seen him post in a lot of threads.
>>1101044
>and demanding proof so much
Yes, annoying, jealous and autistic more than he is.
That's too bad tho. This board used to have many quality posters
>>1101061
Jealousy is sickness
Envy is ambition
-Thomas Jefferson
IHaz how often do you rebalance? Do you recommend automated investing platforms that automatically rebalance?
>>1101100
>how often do you rebalance?
I don't rebalance in a traditional sense because the tax consequences would be severe. I have substantial accumulated capital gains in almost all of my funds, and therefore any selling activity triggers a large tax hit.
Instead, I try to "rebalance" only using new money additions to my portfolio, allocating new dollars to any funds that might have become under-represented. Since I tend to make 2-6 large-ish purchases per year, this generally allows me to stay reasonably close to my targets.
>Do you recommend automated investing platforms that automatically rebalance?
I don't recommend them because rebalancing is something that anyone with a little financial education can manage for themselves, and fewer fees are always more desirable.
Having said that, I don't go out of my way to dump on shops like Betterment or Wealthfront because they do a lot more right than they do wrong. It's FAR better that someone have their money in index funds in one of these platforms than making the classic mistakes of individual stock picking, etc.
>>1101044
Maybe he shouldn't tripfag and claim he has millions then? Just. A. Fucking. Thought.
Any "advice" wether good or not, can be just as easily given anonymously. The tripfagging and samefagging is what turns people off, not necessarily his generic advice.
>>1098870
who fucking cares? Jesus
>>1098905
Aren't Aussie home prices stupidly inflated right now
>>1101228
This. Nobody cares. Trying so hard to validate yourself on a Taiwanese finger painting board is idiotic.
iHaz, what's your cash situation like?
Do you earn enough from your law work to cover all of your expenses, and sweep the remainder into your Vanguard account?
Or do you have some of your funds pointed to a cash account and have the dividends flow into that, which you can use to pay for living expenses?
How much cash do you keep liquid compared to your annual expenses?
Do you just have a check and/or savings account with a bank? Money Market?
>>1101290
>iHaz, what's your cash situation like?
I retired some time ago; I no longer have any earned income. I live entirely off the proceeds of my investments, which aggregate to about $400k/annually. About 3/4 of that are from my Vanguard funds, which I reinvest. The remaining $100K is from other investments, private equity, etc. That has proven sufficient to cover my ordinary cash needs so far, with the exception of my Federal income tax obligations.
>How much cash do you keep liquid compared to your annual expenses?
I keep about $100K in cash, which is somewhat more than 12 month's ordinary living expenses (excluding income tax). Maybe $60K of that will be in my retail bank accounts, split between a checking account and a money market savings. The balance of the cash sits in my Vanguard money market fund, ready to be spent or invested as circumstances dictate.
I probably keep more around than most, but I'm a bit paranoid about avoiding the need to make any unscheduled withdrawals from my investments. Doing so incurs substantial capital gains, which means I then have to adjust my quarterly withholding or face penalties. Due to my business interests, I pay taxes in four states in additional the the Fed, so this is a bigger deal than it might sound at first blush. It's just easier to avoid the situation by keeping a nice cash cushion on hand.
>indexing is easier
>just need a small 5 million dollar loan
>>1101236
Sikh gains bro
>>1101473
Thanks iHaz . was a nice read. I would totaly suck your dick for 1$
>>1101473
Blah blah blah
>>1101582
Yea because you're a faggot lol
>>1101642
Its the 21th century, closeted homophobes are worse then fags.
>>1101202
>The tripfagging and samefagging is what turns people off
I don't mind the tripfagging. It makes it much easier to spot and filter (or troll along with) conceited Chinese Canadian forever college students and multi-billionaire douchebags with mediocre advice.
Time to become an attorney and make $$$
Brb
