Buy a house they said
Cheaper than renting they said
Real Estate Riches they said
All the rich people own real estate they said
>I believed you Dolf
>I..b.believed in you
The deal fell through because the AC was bad, the furnace was bad and it was bank owned and they were dicking with me. They ended up selling to someone else for $8000 less.
Thousands tossed away on fees, interest and middlemen pushing paper. Cash is the way to go.
>m-muh opportunity cost
>m-muh meme tier econ degree sayz..
>b-b-but market returns invested elsewhere
>mortgage interest tax deductions!
So many people fall for it too or believe the renting is cheaper meme. It's sad.
>>1057330
That's why you always offer a bit more in exchange for them covering closing/settlement costs
>>1057330
All of that is true, and $5K in closing costs which I can't believe you didn't know about before hand doesn't change that.
>>1057392
Bets they would do is pay for a new natural gas forced air furnace. There wasn't much negotiation. At first it was really weird because they wouldn't even talk to me. Everything had to go through a middle man.
>>1057330
You bought a $37k house?
>>1057390
>So many people fall for it too or believe the renting is cheaper meme. It's sad.
In DC it is cheaper to buy a house than it is to rent. The average 2 bedroom apartment is $2500 per month and climbing. A $400k mortgage will be around $1700-1800 per month on average.
>>1057433
I don't see how it would be cheaper to buy when you factor in taxes, maintenance, lawn car, etc.
>>1057437
Do You not realize the person you rent from has to pay all that and make profit from you.
>>1057460
Yes, but that was already assumed to be included in the $2500/month lease.
>>1057464
I own a house repairs are not even 100 a month. I bought a space with land and purchased goats, so I pay zero lawncare and pay zero taxes thanks to agricultural exemption
>>1057407
Where do homes cost 28k?
Or are we talking about a garage or a patio or something?
t. Toronto with average SFH price of 600k.
>>1057437
Taxes you pay for anywhere renting or owning. So that doesn't factor in. Your landlord isn't shouldering the tax bill, you are.
Maintenance is majorly exaggerated by a lot of people on this board. It costs me around $1000 year if I were to average it out. Better yet, say 2% of the homes value annually. That's if you do preventative maintenance and take care of issues promptly before they add up. What's important to remember is most of it adds to the value of your home so it's not money wasted. Especially if the repair ends up being an improvement.
Lawn care? I've had the same lawnmower I bought used for $50 like five years ago. It's about $1 per week in fuel and $3 for lawn bags. Well, make that $1 per month now with gas prices. Unless you plan on buying a gigantic property that's a non issue.
If you're not ready to get your hands dirty and learn how to do things yourself home ownership definitely would be a burden. In the long run it is cheaper though.
>>1057498
In my experience people with homes disregard a lot of the money they put into homes or use your argument that they are improving their home equity by making an improvement. Like they are ever going to get that money back. They probably never will because most second homes are more expensive.
>>1057484
Pittsburgh dude. The blacker the neighborhood the cheaper.
>>1057330
>buying frenzy starts in spring 2015
>all the cheapest condos disappear off market within a week
>trying to purchase a second rental condo (just one unit since that's all i can afford)
>the bulk of the cheapest ones can not be rented due to the associations prohibiting it
>finally find one that is priced semi decently and can be rented
>close on the condo
>week of closing new association rules go into effect
>9 pages of rules turns in 20 pages
>fines added to every single rule that is broken
>10 days to approve tenants after lease is signed
>4 months after closing finally find a prospective tenant
>association rejects him because he has a pickup and they don't want pickups parked on the lot
>nearing the 6 month mark and condo still vacant
>prices stagnated so can't sell the piece of shit condo without a loss
>best option is to rent it just so i can cover the monthly fees and sell it once the market picks up
fuck home owner associations. the fucking monthly association fee is higher than my mortgage and they don't even pay for the cooking gas.
Fuck man north versailles is such a shithole you dodged a bullet. I wouldn't even live there if I profited 10k a year
>>1057330
the worst part is that when you want to cash out real estate it costs you to equal to 7-9% spread in stocks etc.
2016-2025 does not look for real estate, the best scenario is that prices dont fall at their current levels. in europe many capital cities prices have already stopped rising 5 years ago and turned down slowly
>>1057539
if another recession hits it will be a good time for rental real estate. more tenants and cheap foreclosed housing.
>>1057534
Its not that bad. It does have a housing project not to far from there that causes problems. Basically the area is mostly white trash though. The Walmart gets stuff stolen a lot.
>>1057524
Not to far from you - Cleveland. Some other people might but I'm speaking from experience as well. Wife and I decided we didn't want debt our whole lives. We had no social life for 3 years after we got married. Bought our first home (shack) cash out. Lived there for a while. Fixed it up some. Saved. Two years later took out a very small mortgage (because of a huge down payment from savings in rent vs owning) in a nicer area. Rented out the first.
Our tenants pay the property tax and maintenance where they're living plus half of our mortgage. All with 100% equity in the first one plus a solid source of monthly income while they're building our equity in the second.
Half a mortgage payment in a decent area, extra money for retirement, toys, vacations and some stranger is helping to fund that for you. How is that NOT the way to go?
And I'm not being that 'hey look at me' guy. Just saying if you're in the right market (which in Pittsburgh you are) you can't go wrong IMO. That's just my 3 cents. Everyone is different.
>>1057543
yes if the prices drops heavily and you've got cash then buy
>>1057551
I've managed 200 apartment units as part of a housing association and I have seen the worst of people that I would never want to rent to anyone.
>>1057564
generally, tenants are pieces of shit until you start dealing with luxury apartments. unfortunately, the monthly rent on luxury apartments is usually less than 1% of the purchase price. you make less money but you deal with a better class of people, so it's a trade off.
also, judging based on where you wanted to buy you've dealt with the bottom of the barrel as far as tenants go.
>>1057564
Yeah, we had a few idiots starting out.
We learned and found solid tenants. Screen the hell out of them. Credit reports and background checks for each person living there. We make them pay for it up front (even if they're denied). Verify employment and references personally I don't outsource it to some background company. Also I do a quick inspection every 6 months which is included in their lease agreement. It sounds like a lot but it's not that bad really.
>>1057330
$28k to buy a house? What's the job market like in the area? Worth moving from Australia and living on easy street?
A house is literally the worst investment you can make
>stationary, moving moving costs, realtor fees
>degrades over time
>can fall victim to a poor environment(crime, natural disasters, ect)
>have to pay absurd amounts of taxes
>have to pay for repairs
>have to pay for upgrades
>cities are expensive as fuck unless you live in a ghetto, therefore you have to buy in some suburb and waste more money on a car, gas, insurance, also time
>basically owned by the bank
Wow! After 30 years you finally have some equity, now imagine if you put all that money in a diversified portfolio that grew 7% a year
Why the FUCK would somebody buy a house in the year 2016?
>b-but it will increase in value
Yeah I'm sure in the future all the wealthy millennials working at starbucks will be able to afford your house once the market is flooded with babyboomers looking to get out
>>1057580
You are not going to move around the world just to live in a soon to be bad area just to afford a cheap house.
>Buying a house
>Investing
>>1057581
>projecting this hard
>mfw rent payments generate 9% ROI YoY without the market swings
Upgrades? lmao just save, anon. You'll get there bb.
Can someone else with an expensive house post all their closing costs?
>>1057627
Well you live in Cleveland where you can buy a house for the price of a VCR, but here in Canada shit's fucked
>>1057460
>being this cucked
Just put the numbers in: https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-calculator/
Plenty of areas are not profitable for landlords unless they bought years ago at a cheaper price. They can't charge more for rent because so many others can undercut them.
>>1057643
That's very true. My strategy would never work in a lot of other locations.
>>1057645
Why do you make the assumption every landlord has a mortgage on the property? Some inherited, some have good jobs - saved and bought cash. Some bought when it was cheaper etc. That mortgage rental crap is no where near like it was in 06-07. Most landlords own it outright or close to it.
you did it wrong
you're supposed to:
>buy/build a fourplex (biggest you can get without being classed as commercial property in most states)
>calculate monthly cost of mortgage, taxes, plumber/hvac/snowplow whatever
>divide by three
>charge each tenant that much
>live for free in the fourth unit
>do this for a few years
>take out HELOC
>purchase more properties
>>1057656
Cool, that proves my point even more.
>>1057662
Which is what exactly?
You're still building equity where as with renting you're gaining nothing but a roof over your head and putting money in someone elses pocket.
So even if you're at break even on renting vs owning. What's the endgame there by not buying? Rent forever - even in retirement? All of that pinned to the hopes that the market doesn't screw you when you need it as it has millions of others?
I'm not a SHTF scenario type person but I do believe in diversification is one of the first rules of investments and financial security/stability. You're talking about all your eggs dude. In one basket. F that.
>>1057330
I wonder where you can buy a house for 38K... must be something made out of cardboard..
>>1057672
>building equity
That's assuming your area has the correct margins. People act like it's rent for 1k/month or buy for 1k/month, when in reality in plenty of areas it's closer to rent for 1k/month or buy for 1600/month, and only 350 of that is equity, and you still need to pay for repairs, and you need 20% down payment, and you pay closing costs, and you now have to pay all of your utilities while rent often covers water and sometimes heat.
Buying is fine in about 50% of the USA but in most first world areas the margins have gone to shit. The only real benefit is the assumption that rent will drastically increase, which isn't a guarantee anymore after two decades of wage stagnation finally catching up to the market.
>>1057539
>in europe many capital cities prices have already stopped rising 5 years ago and turned down slowly
What shithole part of Europe are you talking about? Prices in Amsterdam and London are going through the roof, with bidding starting above the asking prices. Of course prices are going down in Athens or some shithole in eastern europe, because nobody wants to live there.
>>1057330
>Purchase price 36.900
>City property taxes 8 months 927.33
What the actual fuck. You have to pay over 100$ a month in taxes for a cuckshed in Bumfuck nowhere?
>>1057611
>You are not going to move around the world just to live in a soon to be bad area just to afford a house that was cheap in 20O4
>>1057330
Why are you butthurt about a real estate deal that went bad 12 years ago?
The bigger question is, have you done anything positive with your life in the TWELVE FUCKING YEARS since, or just sat around bitching about how unfair the system is?
>>1057351
Also, it looks like Kelly Glew flipped it in 5 months for a profit of over $20k, which is a 71% ROI in 5 months. assuming her closing costs were the same as yours. It appears even with the exorbitant fees, it was still a good deal.
It also appears Kelly has bigger balls than you.
>>1057639
Closing costs are only expensive if you are a retard. who makes bad decisions. Pic related, $200 closing costs on a $80k house
>>1057819
wow, good job desu
>>1057401
>All of that is true, and $5K in closing costs which I can't believe you didn't know about before hand doesn't change that.
>>1057797
The south got its ass kicked --and kicked bad-- as a result of the Civil War and they are still pissed off about it in a big way.
Memorable ass kicking are never forgotten. Ever heard of the Crusades? Ask a Muslim about that.
>>1057769
Welcome to Pennsylvania!
>>1057755
Name a few examples in the USA, I'm curious to see.
If that's true it's probably best not to buy being that bad. If people stop buying for insanely over-valued prices they will drop off eventually.
Nowhere I've ever even looked at has prices that upside down. I know a few friends in Austin, TX have told me about some pretty high prices due to all kinds of hipsters moving there. Even still, I think it's in near break even territory so it continues to beat renting.
Living in a shitty midwest rust belt city has it's benefits I guess.
Semi related. Should I get a mortgage to move out of my parents? I have 10% down payment and can most likely afford the monthly payments. It will be a shitty house (north of England)
>>1058369
>most likely
Just rent cheap with a roommate and keep the money banked
>>1057580
>What's the job market like in the area?
Pittsburgh is good as long as you don't work in oil and gas.
>CMU is in the top 3 for engineering and CS in the world
>companies started by CMU grads stick in the area
>UPMC is one the top 20 hospitals in the US with a massive research program
>decent amount of manufacturing, including 1 steel mill
>>1057581
>Wow! After 30 years you finally have some equity, now imagine if you put all that money in a diversified portfolio that grew 7% a year
But you can't because you are paying some else's mortgage by renting. In most areas renting the same number of bedrooms is more expensive than buying them with a 30yr mortgage. In Pittsburgh there are decent houses for under $150k. You can find rent that is close to the cost of the mortgage, but it will be a run down 1br in the ghetto.
>>1057330
Why throw money into the bottomless pit known as renting?
With a house it's a big pit, but it ain't bottomless.
>>1059640
Wholesale?
>>1059574
Ever heard of Flint, Michigan?
As a successful landlord, this thread just makes me smile. All my investment properties are cash positive. They are all easy tenants.
Unfortunately, this is likely impossible for the vast majority of you. Many of you lack the temperament for this business and you are too incompetent to find great locations.
Closing costs are hilarious I worked in real estate development and the charges are literally "just cause" charges
You pay the city a few hundred dollars just to make sure some third party doesn't have rights to the land kek
Is there a site where you can learn about property trends for different countries, specifically South Africa?
Like I want to know if we are in the meme of a bubble or when there may be an expected crash?
Houses are liabilities for the average person
Unless you're rich or have a big start up capital, it's better to rent.
Don't go mortgage.
>>1059647
That's when you agree on a low price with a motivated seller, put it on a contract, and then either assign the contract or double-close. The investor pays a premium (your margin) but still makes a shitton of money. Win-win.
Assignment contract: "anon and/or assigns" as the buyer.
Double-close: You are technically the buyer. Seconds after you close on it, you sell it instantly to your investor for a profit. Both are exercised with the assistance of a title company (in adjacent rooms, haha).
You need to read up on this shit to do it right. Also, you need well-written contracts, with the help of your lawyer.
>>1059824
great post, you fucking faggot. take your dick waving to reddit where you might get some upboats.
>>1059925
For the average person (99%) a mortgage IS a massive liability. The largest liability that they will ever take on in life. A mortgage effectively prevents most people from taking on better opportunities (including better employment/compensation in other cities/states).
Mortgages are often only assets to the bank.. which is ripping homeowner assholes wide open on interest rates.
Employers love homeowners. They give up so much bargaining power.
>>1059971
>ripping homeowner assholes wide open on interest rates.
With rock bottom interest rates? Not even factoring that it's tax deductible on top of that..
>Employers love homeowners.
I have never had an employer ask me if I was a home owner. Ever. I've employed people myself and never asked them either.
The only semi-legit point you make is that it limits your mobility. I say limits because you can still sell. People do it every day.
How you NEETs manage to talk yourself OUT of home ownership is funny to read. I'll give you that.
>Average rent for 2-3bdrm, non shit house in my area
$1200/mo
>I can buy same house for ~$100k
With PMI, insurance and taxes it's possible to have a ~$700 payment.
Why would I let the landlord jew make money off me?
Renting is almost always cheaper if you're just looking for somewhere to live.
It's classic division of labor.
>>1057581
>what is rent
Really, biz. Come on.
>>1061319
Cheaper? Well, technically, I suppose so, but in one scenario you're just throwing money away and in the other you're buying property that you can sell or pass on to your children.
How is the former better if you can afford the latter?
I bought an apartment recently for 43k euros, I have no regrets. I mean, if that money was everything I had in the world, I wouldn't dream of it, but otherwise it's a solid long term decision.
>>1059971
>Employers love homeowners. They give up so much bargaining power.
Don't buy in the middle of nowhere and you have bargaining power. Any decent sized city will have thousands of jobs open at any time.
>>1061299
>Why would I let the landlord jew make money off me?
Because sometimes the mobility and less capital-intensive nature afforded to you by renting is worth more than the $3,000 a year you'd save owning. That's the position I'm in. I'll be advancing and relocating every two years or so with my company, so it'd be foolish to own a home.
>>1057526
>thinking a condo would be the best investment.
Dumbass
>>1057543
It's still a good time for rentals if you've got the cash. And good luck with finding any foreclosures. Real estate isn't doing bad right now.
>>1057330
faggot, you didn't BUY A HOUSE
BUY A HOUSE means PURCHASING SOMETHING WITH MONEY and then it becomes YOURS
not entering into a multi-decade agreement designed to separate fools from their money
>>1057564
Well you live in the ghetto so what do you expect?
>>1057581
>Hurr put your money in a diversified portfolio at 7% durr
>how do I real estate I'm so fucking stupid.
I hope you like living in an apartment forever, loser.
>>1057797
/thread
>>1057616
Just goes to show that /biz/ doesn't understand real estate.
>>1061391
PREACH BROTHER PREACH
>people looking to sell their houses are telling me what a great investment houses are!
>what a coincidence!
>>1057645
>implying every landlord has a mortgage
>>1057657
That'd be ideal but it's not always feasible.
>>1057749
Niggerville.
>>1059824
>as a successful slumlord
FTFY
>>1059885
Pretty much
>>1059922
Just google South Africa property trends.
>>1061391
So much this. This faggots still bitching over a fucking deal he lost 12 FUCKING YEARS AGO. Let it go, OP.
>>1059885
>just to make sure some third party doesn't have rights to the land
This sounds a lot more important than you're making it out to be.
>>1061430
It is very important
>>1061391
Unless you put 0% down you do own a portion of the house. The bank owns the rest.
>not entering into a multi-decade agreement designed to separate fools from their money
The same can be said for rent. The only non-jew'd way to live is with your parents... but they expect help around the house and hand over some cash to cover your expensive ass. I know you can buy a van with cash and live in that! You still got to pay the government jew for registration, the insurance jew for insurance, and mechanic jew for inspections.
Just go and live in the woods and hope whatever jew owns that land does not find you.
>>1057524
God fucking damnit. Fuck Canada seriously. You'd be hard pressed to find a mediocre house in the middle of nowhere for under $200k
>>1057581
>pay $2000/month rent for 20 years and have nothing whatsoever at the end
>pay $2200/month mortgage/fees/etc for 20 years and have property worth six figures at the end
Figure it out stupid
>>1061448
The question then becomes will a person stomach renting in a shittier place than they would buy if they bought because they don't care as much about how it is in 20 years.
If so, the amount you save if invested in an index fund over that duration could easily leave you with more in 20 years time.
>>1061451
Please shut the fuck up.
>>1061382
my first condo clears me $600 profit per month on a ~17k investment (closing costs and down payment.) that's over 40% returns per year. i just rushed and fucked up with the second condo. should have waited until i find something i'm fully happy with and not what was the best deal at the time.
>>1061451
>If so, the amount you save if invested in an index fund over that duration could easily leave you with more in 20 years time.
Not likely after you deduct the cost of your rent.
Of course you could rent a room instead of an entire house for far cheaper, if that's how you want to spend your life that's no skin off my cock
>>1061456
Now you've learned from your mistakes, I hope.
