Memes and /pol/itics aside, what do you think of Donald Trump's proposals for the economy?
>Crackdown on illegal immigration (cheap labor supply).
>Confront Chinese policies (declare China a "currency manipulator", etc.)
>His tax plan (lowering taxes on corporations to keep jobs in the US).
Sounds that he's running on emotion, not actual logic.
>>1013487
It's pretty good. I like it.
>lowering taxes on corporations
>further increasing the income inequality gap
Not good
>>1013528
>Lowers taxes on income earners below $25,000 to 0-fucking-%
If you remain poor after this, you have no one but your retarded self to blame.
>>1013519
>current campaign not based on fear mongering.
>implying Muslim and general immigrant position isn't fear mongering in the highest degree.
>>1013491
Well you just defined the art of politics.
>babbys first election
>Crackdown on illegal immigration (cheap labor supply).
This would upset to much vested interests, this won't happen even if Trump gets elected
>Confront Chinese policies (declare China a "currency manipulator", etc.)
China can just as fairly call the US a "currency manipulator"... starting shit with China would be very stupid
>His tax plan (lowering taxes on corporations to keep jobs in the US).
Unless he plans on dictating what corporations do with their profits this won't necessarily effect domestic employment in anyway; it most likely will just result in cost-shifting away from the government towards rentiers and land-lords, people will still put their money where they can get the most profitable returns
Overall meme/10
>>1013540
>Lowers taxes on income earners below $25,000 to 0-fucking-%
If he actually did that it would be like Lincoln declaring the emancipation of slaves. Which makes me think it's just an empty promise to get the poor vote.
>>1013487
>declare China a "currency manipulator", etc.
That's such a stupid thing. It's not a fucking secret that they devalue their currency. It's actually just how it works in an export-led industrializing country.
>>1013487
Cracking down on illegal immigration is stupid since illegal immigration has strong positive effects of clearing regional rural labor markets, increasing wages for skilled and semiskilled workers, and having only an incredibly small negative effect on low skill wages. Immigration is almost a free lunch.
China's currency is a lot closer to its real value than it was a few years ago since they've moved to a managed float and their economy started sputtering. Pegged currencies are generally bullshit unless you're recovering from a government that tried to print money to pay for everything after lenders stopped giving them money. That said, Trump has a weird obsession with trade deficits which is dumb since the only reason you export shit is so you can buy more of the other guy's shit.
Dropping our corporate taxes would be great, especially since the US has the highest statutory corp income tax in the developed world.
>>1013562
The muslim problem isn't fear mongering, it's reality mongering. When the 200,000 people in ISIS hear about the refugee acceptance across the EU/Aus/Canada/USA, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that they're getting in on that.
>>1013660
*that they're not getting in on that.
Typos win again. I'll see myself out.
>>1013651
Then for Bernie Sanders?
>>1013660
So are you saying 200k Muslims are terrorists?
>>1013636
How is the US subsidizing products to be dumped on 3rd world markets not essentially he same thing?
>>1013707
Seriously. If all 1,6 billion Muslims are terrorists, then every baptist is a westboro baptist.
>>1013720
It's interesting that throughout the millions of refugees, there really has only been one major attack.
>>1013636
You're not wrong but you must realize this is protectionism on a HUGE scale
not only are there rules against this, it's a massive wealth transfer to china from other poor countries priced out purely by a currency effect.
don't forget either that China is one of the world's worst investors. Who the fuck wants a portfolio with a trillion bucks of T-bills right now? not to mention pouring billions into shitty, corrupt projects
there is a very solid argument to be made that a lot of the under-investment in many economies right now is due mainly to china being a capital-destroying sinkhole. read that again. they destroy capital at a scale nobody else does.
if Trump could get them to stop that shit, it would be amazing
>>1013707
that's not what he said... he said that when western european countries advertise that you can get on a boat and walk from Greece to France, that gives the terrorists cover to infiltrate.
He seems like a class traitor billionaire. He does seem least likely to deviate but if he does, we really lose nothing
>>1013487
Trump knows business and transactions.
I think he would be good for the US.
He's right about Hispanic immigration too. It is way out of hand, and has been out of hand for 20 years now.
>>1013736
I didn’t understand. How is China a capital sinkhole?
>>1013611
>Like Lincoln declaring the emancipation of slaves
Most people in that income bracket don't pay any taxes anyway. It won't make any difference. Neo-feudal society is the future, statesman will have to find a way to make use of the serfs before they are galvanized by the extreme left.
All that being said I like Trump. He seems to have rejected the neocons and their mad pro-Zionist foreign policy. It would be interesting to see him attempt to put together these huge infrastructure plans he has alluded to and he seems committed to smashing a lot of useless government bureaucracy.
If he is elected it is more than likely he will be absorbed into the system and toe the lie for the administrative elite. Still, he seems to have a score to settle with the establishment. If he can take a giant dump on some of these frauds it will be worth it.
>>1013740
Yet attacks are so rare that blocking them is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
has anyone noticed his salesmanship? He's using used car salesman tricks to progress
His plant is great. I especially love his new, simple, lower tax brackets.
>>1013726
Just a lot of minor ones though
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/the-living-hell-for-swedish--5-muslims-commit-nearly-77-6-of-all-rape-crimes/
http://pamelageller.com/2015/09/document-muslim-migrants-raping-women-and-children-in-camp-in-germany.html/
>>1013777
plan*
>>1013766
>If he is elected it is more than likely he will be absorbed into the system and toe the lie for the administrative elite. Still, he seems to have a score to settle with the establishment. If he can take a giant dump on some of these frauds it will be worth it.
No one has leverage(read: PACs) on him. He could self fund and run as an independent and split the republican vote.
I liked him because of some of his views even if some of them were a tad extreme. Fortifying the border would discourage people to immigrate illegally, but I can't see them rounding up at 11 million illegals and deporting them. Stopping the flow first and getting them on the tax rolls is a more feasible compromise.
He dodges the biggest pitfall of the republican party: religion and conservative social views. Gay marriage and abortion have no effect on GDP. Those battles are over, focus on the money.
Then he jumps right back into the stupid side of things and says we need to ban Muslims. The US is GOAT at integrating people from different cultures. The original immigrants won't touch bacon, but their kids might sneak a slice every now and then. By the 3rd generation they will be selling bacon kebabs. No one goes Allah Akcubar when they eat bacon.
>>1013797
>but I can't see them rounding up at 11 million illegals and deporting them.
Why is this a meme? There will be no SS squads rolling around "rounding people up" and crap. They get deported through the normal process when they're found out via normal life - they get stopped for a traffic violation, and deported. It's what we already do. Just seal the border and in a few years most of them will be deported.
>
Then he jumps right back into the stupid side of things and says we need to ban Muslims. The US is GOAT at integrating people from different cultures. The original immigrants won't touch bacon, but their kids might sneak a slice every now and then. By the 3rd generation they will be selling bacon kebabs. No one goes Allah Akcubar when they eat bacon.
There is no way you've convinced yourself that it's a good thing to have Muslims in a country. Besides, he's only talking about a temporary ban.
>>1013805
>blue collar republicans do not realize how much the rich republicans make fat bank off shady immigrant labor.
>>1013805
>Just seal the border and in a few years most of them will be deported.
You won't catch all of them in traffic stops or even criminal arrests. Better enforcement of e-verify would help as would higher levels of audits for construction companies.
A long term search for illegals is not politically feasible considering some support amnesty for the current batch and oppose fortifying the border. Take the deal you can get even if it is not ideal. Trump knows this and started the bargaining at the extreme end knowing he will have to come to a compromise in the middle
>There is no way you've convinced yourself that it's a good thing to have Muslims in a country.
2 attacks with 25 dead since 9/11 beats the hell out of 3 attacks with 225 dead in the same time over in Europe. The 2 attacks we had showed clear warning signs before they happened. The Muslim community has spotted and help to foil several plots over the years. Turns out many of them like living in the US and don't like the bad rap extremists give them.
The best analogy is being white and hearing a white guy bragging to you about all the black people he is going to kill tomorrow. You tend to say something to the authorities. Nationality trump race when you and the black guy both enjoy KFC.
>Besides, he's only talking about a temporary ban.
Which plays right into ISIS. They want to see an us vs them divide between Muslims and everyone else. With the above point he would work down to making the vetting process more rigorous.
For 2016 the republicans need a candidate that can draw some of the democratic votes because not everyone who is a D wants a socialist or someone who kept classified info on a private computer. Republicans get out and vote Republican no matter the candidate. They would vote for Sanders if he had the R next to his name come November.
>>1013487
Well based on what you posted, you clearly haven't read it/don't understand it.
It's pretty good, I guess. I like his tax code a lot and I appreciate that he's trying to turn corporate inversion into a bigger issue.
>>1013755
their currency being artificially undervalued makes sup-optimal investments look more optimal than the actual optimum to people like you and me
they also have the worst sovereign wealth fund anyone has ever run - again, a trillion bucks worth of treasury bills making 0.25% is losing the inflation rate
>not being able to find investments that yield more than 0.25%
most importantly, china spends a fuckton of money on literally pouring money down the drain
>Ghost cities
Billions dumped into huge real estate ventures where the buildings topple over within months, the bridges crack and fall to pieces, roads full of potholes within weeks.
>Building a city with the capacity to house 5million people
>population: 0
apartments, office space, plumbing, electricity grids, it all deteriorates much quicker if nobody is using it - sweeping the floor, flushing stagnant water out of places, whatever
there's dozens of these things all over the place
and that's not even the worst of it.
so yeah, they've been destroying capital at a furious pace for at least a decade. the kind of money that would take multiple third world countries and turn them into South Korea. The kind of money that would make Social security solvent again.
That's where all the "China Bubble" shit comes from. Sure there's lots of money to be made, but don't forget their stimulus package was 20% of GDP. NOBODY can find enough valid shit to spend 20% of GDP on in a hurry like they did. That credit/investment bubble has to burst eventually and it's gonna burst HARD when it does
>>1013660
>muslim problem isn't fear mongering, it's reality mongering
Lol.
>Being this far up el Trumpos ass.
>>1013849
>actually thinking Islam is a good idea
>>1013707
Everyone in ISIS is a terrorist, and they have 200k people, so yes.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-islamic-militants-have-army-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html
>Confront Chinese policies (declare China a "currency manipulator", etc.)
Even though they are currency manipulators, that doesn't mean they're going to stop manipulating their currency, especially when theyre trying to counter the recession they're heading into.
But regardless, doing so wouldn't damage relations with China. Their over reliance on our Treasuries currently has us giving the demands. All the income from net exports they're about to receive won't mean shit if they don't have anywhere to put the money.
>>1013833
I read what is in his campaign website. It's obviously very simplified in the OP, but I assumed people here were familiar with his proposals.
>>1013850
>completely missing the point
>insulting a group over the actions of a few
>>1013805
>There is no way you've convinced yourself that it's a good thing to have Muslims in a country.
Or Christians. Or Athiests. Or whites. Or natives. Let's just sterilize North America because everyone and everything is violent and scary by the logic that you're likely using.
>>1013779
Yeah, a bunch of cherrypicked articles from random nobodies. Your second link has a link to Breitbart, hardly the most neutral source.
>>1014038
i thought we were supposed to listen and believe because rape culture and stuff. stop being a cishitlord.
>>1013487
Australian here.
I like trump since he seems like he knows what it means to be an American (which is odd considering his wealth), and, perhaps more importantly, corporate shills and the political class seem to hate him. This is significant, since it seems like corporate shills and the political class have been disregarding the interests of the public in your country for some time. Even if untrue, this is the common perception.
Politics aside, I like that he's willing to confront the outsourcing of industry to foreigners - both the letting them into your country and sending the jobs to them. Low level work has been decimated since this began, letting corporations make insane profit and leaving the people out of a job and begging for more programs; this has made it a policy difficult to dislodge, since it supports the interests of both the rep/dem backers.
Think of the cheap chinkshit like this:
A store has a policy, if you don't have a job you get a 50% discount
Would you give up your job for the 50% discount? What if you had to give it up permanently?
Clearly it is only a good deal in the short term (at best) and really it's a shitty deal. This is what has happened with sending manufacturing overseas.
Lower taxes is good, if only because when women get the vote taxes skyrocket and government spending in kind.
>deport cheap inhouse labor that no other americans will do.
>start a financial war with US's biggest trade partner
>decrease tax on super rich, continuing to give lower income households less liquidity to stimulate markets
have to admit, him pandering to idiots, yet at the same time appealing to his buddies (including the Kremlin) is quite a fantastic feat.
>>1014111
>>deport cheap inhouse labor that no other americans will do.
>imblying
>>1014128
It's rare to see white people work in the fields that surround my home.
>>1014128
have fun picking tomatoes for 12 hours a day for minimum wage in 100 degree weather.
>>1014128
I don't see many white/black people work in roofing for $150 a day.
>>1014141
There are plenty of unemployed blacks and (legal) Latinos. Idk if they're willing to work in the fields tho.
Probably the farms would have to raise wages.
>>1014165
as it should
>>1014141
>>1014142
>>1014142
You realize that when mexicans will no longer be doing these jobs for shit pay that the wages will go up to a point where people are willing to do these jobs, right? Pretty basic shit here.
End result of deporting mexicans is higher wages (and more expensive tomatoes).
It wouldn't be a big deal for the economy one way or another.
>>1014168
Funny how all the conservatives turn into libtards when their cheap Mexican labor gets threatened by the Tea Party and "Adam's Apple" Coulter.
The restaurant, construction and transport industries as well as utility companies would FUCKING COLLAPSE without their Mexicans and by God they'll pay off any member of Congress to make sure the steady supply of Mexicans is unabated.
>>1013651
> never studied the fall of Rome
10% or so of unskilled foreign labor is just fine. When you have massive waves of unskilled labor flooding a country, it is a problem, it undercuts all labor and places a drag on mobility.
>>1014206
Rome fell because of stagnancy. Also, you know what drags on mobility? Wealth gaps.
>>1014178
Yeah naw, white people are fucking lazy. Only thing you're willing to do is oil work. I never see any of you at the fields or the dairies, unless you own them.
>>1014219
Of course they don't want to compete with people who have to accept less than minimum wage with no insurance or legal protection or else they starve/get deported, that doesn't make them lazy it makes them sane.
Fact of the matter is republican politicians do nothing about immigrants because their corporate backers don't want them to, and democrat politicians do nothing about immigrants because they want their votes.
>>1014215
Importing more poors into a country exacerbates this by reducing social mobility. Underclass blacks are the least equipped to handle such and it shows in their unemployment rate.
>>1013528
>corporate taxes
>necessarily reflective of personal income levels
>not having much more of an impact on investment decisions and corporate domicile
get out and stay out
>>1014168
that picture is sooooooo! delusional that almost makes wanna kill any one who listens to this trans just to cleanse the country out of retards.
illegals don't even fuck with the jobs legals do.
>>1014240
>DEMOCRATS DO NOTHING FOR IMMIGRANTS
You mean besides go to bat for them in congress and issue executive orders?
>>1014330
How about you read what I wrote again
>considering Trump a real candidate
>"Hillary 2k16"
>>1014328
Because they've subverted the job market dipshit. Employers love scabs and should get their shit kicked in for allowing it.
>>1014037
>logic
I wouldn't give him that much credit
>>1013487
It is what I like best about him- I worked construction 10 years ago and every big job went from decently paid American workers to 100% Mexican slave workers today. Mexicans are nice people but they ruin wages and safety standards.
>>1013797
Great point about religion. I am a fiscal conservative but wouldn't vote for a mainstream republican because I am atheist. No way will I vote somebody in to marginalize my moral and ethical views because a 2000 year old book says so.
>>1013915
Yeah, just like the guy with 200k in student loans really has sally may by the balls...
>>1013679
God no. Bernie has a strong nativist streak and thinks immigration is a conspiracy to depress wages when that directly contradicts the academic literature on the subject. The only good economics policy he has is a carbon tax, but then he combined that with a bunch of shit that defeats the purpose of market based solutions to pollution so it still ends up bleh.
>>1014206
I don't get this comparison, immigrants aren't cruising around the US pillaging the countryside and sacking Washington DC. And the Eastern Empire lasted significantly longer than the West, onl Y falling because all of the Catholic nations actively went out of their way to undermine it while they were constantly at war with Muslim nations.
>>1014985
Shitty comparison. Sallie Mae has 0.00001% of its profits dependent in that guy, while China has over 50% of its currency dependent on us.
You guys seriously want to open up the borders to a nation that can't even take care of itself?
When was the last time Mexico made any huge progression in technology or breakthroughs in medicine? Nothing worth while comes out of Mexico except for their delicious food. The drug cartels still control large portions and there's still horrific crimes taking place.
Instead of putting up a wall America should focus on fixing Mexico so that the Mexicans will want to go back to their homeland.
>>1014985
funny. But that's not how it works. When China invests money into our Treasuries, we just use the investment to pay off the interest on previous loans that we made to China as well as fund other stuff.
When the Treasury bond defaults, China gets its money, but since they can't do shit with it (since no one in China accepts American money) they just buy more Treasuries, stimulating our economy.
We have more of a vice-grip on China's balls than people think. If we were to stop selling Treasuries to China (which would be retarded), China would have no place to invest the American dollars that corporations are trading out for RMB. It'd also be losing money drastically through these switches, which would require China to print more money, deflating the RMB (China's currency) further, sending them into deflation which would cause a recession.
The problem with fucking over China like this is that we would lose the money that China is investing in us. So essentially, they need us as much as we need them. It's a cyclical bond.
>>1014168
Can it be so simple? Untenable surely.
>>1015089
The Empire (and later the Western Empire) didn´t really fell to massed barbarian attacks. It was an economical crisis followed by a social one followed by a political one (well, Rome had been in a perpetual political crisis since forever, but this was a whole new one plasted on top). Too long to explain in detail, so lets summarize saying that the population shift was the major cause of their downfall. Whole areas ended up under majority or even government of non-Romans who eventually started rebelling, and Rome just couldn´t keep pacifying them. It was a long process that spanned a few generations. And a very interesting topic with many, many different layers of complexity, I really recommend you to read more on it.
The Eastern Empire was a little more out of the way of the masses of barbarians moving around (blame Ghengis Khan pushing everyone around) and had other things to its favor. It held relatively well until the internal corruption started getting too bad. Eventually the Templars sacked Constantinople because they were pissed off (a pretender to the throne promised to finance their last Crusade if they helped him to the throne. They did, but the guy got murdered a couple days later and the new one who got the throne said he wouldn´t pay shit). This had other consequences and generally weakened them hard enough that the Turks were finally able to take the city a few years later.
