Forget about culturally and politically, leave that to pol.
What will be the ramifications of importing hundreds of thousands of unskilled migrants who do not speak the local language?
Will this cheap labour be good for the economy?
Or will the expenses associated with housing them, teaching them, feeding them, and having to wait years until they are eligible to work be damaging for EU economies?
>>1013426
i live in berlin. there is a HUGE industry here based around exploiting people who live on welfare. they are neither client nor vendor, they are simply the 'ressource' being moved around in a business transaction. it's highly unethical and part of what makes it work is the bureocratic nightmare that is germany, even for unskilled german citizens. for immigrants with little english and no german skills, it's an absolute nightmare. they are completely powerless.
basically private companies offer 'courses' which supposedly increase welfare recipients employability. they sell the courses to the german state, who requires that welfare recipients participate in them, else they get denied welfare. the courses are absurdly low level, and nobody learns a fucking thing (most people don't even know english or german, but still go and sign the piece of paper confirming their participation, just so their families keep getting welfare. everyone knows it's total shit, the business takes places in upscale offices between government officials and the owners of these 'education for adults' businesses.
it's super exploitative as i said a million times already.
>>1013426
I find it funny how there are still absolutely no scientific studies on the immigration crisis.
Nobody knows the structure of immigration wave, how many of those immigrants know english, percentage of nationalities, how many money they have and stuff like that.
Basically its one big unknown, but politics and people act like immigrants are one homogenous mass and spout bullshit theories about them.
Its all speculation and no facts when it comes to debates about the immigration crisis.
>>1013437
we don't have complete data but it seems safe to say the syrians (making up a large majority of refugees at the moment) are not well-educated and likely have poor english/german skills, given lack of schooling and low hdi of syria
http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/Country-Profiles/SYR.pdf
>>1013426
Look at the US, which has been absorbing an immigrant wave for decades.
Pros: Labor is cheap and plentiful. Lots of hard labor like agriculture and construction gets a boost because the supply of low-wage physical laborers is so large.
Cons: Immigrants love handouts and hate paying for them. They come from societies with weaker rule of law and so there is a disproportionately criminal element to them as a whole. Finally, they are largely self segregated and that segregation keeps them from being acculturated in the new country. This can lead to a glaring mismatch in social and political values which rubs natives the wrong way.
>>1013435
seems like that would be good for that industry, but bad for the economy as a whole
1. does not increase overall level of skill of the workforce
2. drain on government resources
>>1013461
>Lots of hard labor like agriculture and construction gets a boost because the supply of low-wage physical laborers is so large.
this is only relevant if there was previously not enough labor to go around.
has germany recently suffered a shortage of cheap labor? otherwise, what changes? if minimum wage stays the same, i don't see how having a greater supply of something you don't need any more of changes anything.
>>1013458
Yeah, well I was giving examples of data the studies would gather, not specificating what data is most important and most desired. But yeah, syrians make the majority for sure.
>>1013461
I feel the cons are really unfair. They get handouts out of necessity. And giving them handouts is not as much of a burden as many would say. It's often given away by volunteers who pass out donated food. They flee regions with weak rule of law, and often become the least likely to commit crime as they know what their position is. Second generation immigrants can be more crime prone, though that often comes from the issues being an inbetween, not fitting in with either the old or the new. And to use Mexican immigrants as an example, they actually have one of the lowest rates of crime among the groups in the US.
>>1013435
I wish I had invested in that lmao
>>1013477
A problem is that they come from societies that don't frown upon corruption or being dishonest, and are extremely fucking lazy as a whole.
If you've ever been to Syria then you know that to get anything done you need to bribe everyone. Get through an airport quicker? Wave some money and they will open the doors. Want to build a house? You need to bribe the local council to push through the paperwork or they will literally not do it. To do anything in the Arab world you need to bribe and barter for fucking everything.
Everything in the Arab world is just shit and half-arsed. From their businesses to their army's. They will not cope very well in a society like Germany, America, Canada or Britain that have a 'protestant work ethic' culture.
>>1013464
Greater supply with no increase in demand leads to more activity at a lower price.
>>1013534
They are fleeing them though. I doubt they want to bring that with them. Of course, all groups are different but it does not mean they won't assimilate in a generation or even less, as long as they're allowed to integrate. There will be growing pains, but whatever happens with the Syrian refugees will not be any different from any other immigrant group throughout history.
The idea that the majority of the migrants are completely unskilled is an over exaggeration. Most people who can afford to actually flee are the wealthy upper crust of the Syrian population.
The composition of unemployed won't change just because the population increases... more people just means more competition, otherwise any population growth would be disastrous.
Population size isn't why a taxi driver in new york makes more than in new delhi but the difference in global wages will become more and more miniscule with globalization and as economies liberalize more.
>>1013583
Heartily agree with this post, also:
>Most people who can afford to actually flee are the wealthy upper crust of the Syrian population.
Most people don't get this and fling their poo at the TV when they see refugees with iphones.
>>1013426
>hundreds of thousands
Well Germany already accepted over 1 million, so we'll need to adjust some numbers.
>>1013426
It's good for those already rich because they already have everything in place to benefit from it while being shielded from the negatives.
Bad for the rest of you
>>1013669
This anon knows what's up.
>>1013462
>2. drain on government resources
The whole refugee crisis is costing us €6B per year. In comparison, we've spent over €4.5B on one non-finished airport.
These courses are a fraction of the cost, especially since private companies are doing this voluntarily in exchange for cheap/free labor.
>>1013672
Where are you getting your numbers?
>estimate of $23 billion this year, up from initial estimate of $11 billion
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151112/1029969598/germany-refugee-crisis-cost-doubles.html
>Refugee influx could cost Germany $22.58 billion this year: Ifo
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-costs-idUSKCN0SZ1R520151110
you go on to cite the cost of an airport, which is deceiving/irrelevant. more directly related would be Germany's total annual surplus/deficit. in 2014 it was $16 billion, so costs of $23 billion to pay for refugee integration is huge relative to that.
>>1013426
Only GDP per capita will plummet in the most prosperous ones
The Eastern European ones will get fucked in every hole so countries like Poland, Hungary and Greece became anti-immigrants
>>1013956
>Poland, Hungary, and Greece became anti-immigrants
And they sure as fuck should.
I remember that article about some super rich dude (Egyptian, I think) who was going to buy an entire island from Greece to house tens of thousands of refugees. Everyone praised him as a huge humanitarian and a beautiful, benevolent philanthropist.
Nobody even looked up the fact that PEOPLE ALREADY LIVE THERE. His plan was to evict Greek citizens from their homes and give them to the refugees. Fucking joke.
>>1013477
Every dollar Muhammad and his brother Muhammad get represents a dollar taken from a tax payer and a dollar that doesn't go to other Americans for welfare
>>1013566
In this case, what does "activity" mean?
If you already have x amount of minimum wage jobs for low skilled workers across the country, and now you add 2 million unskilled workers to compete for those x jobs, nothing changed from the business owner's point of view. It's not like he can suddenly pay them less.
The only way this changes anything, is if German businesses previously had trouble filling all their min wage positions.
>>1013647
>you're too rich why are you running?
>Poor? You mean terrorist?
>>1013583
>The idea that the majority of the migrants are completely unskilled is an over exaggeration. Most people who can afford to actually flee are the wealthy upper crust of the Syrian population.
I've seen this stated a few times. Do you have any supporting evidence for this claim?
>>1013956
Why do you think the poorer Eastern Euro countries will get fucked so much worse?
Germany is taking far more refugees.
>>1013435
same thing is happening in italia as well as in the US, the mobs are benefiting the most from these hordes of so-called refugees and immigrants
all the talk of humanitarianism is a huge facade for the money being extorted from taxpayers by corporations such as catholic family services, lutheran family services, etc. it's sad people steal this money in the name of the Lord
>>1013437
often because any critical discussion of the matter is silenced by far left activists who throw around claims of xenophobia, nationalism, racism, etc. realistically, no nation can sustain itself with the number of refugees that european nations like germany are getting
>>1013426
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/programs/saguaro/about-social-capital
Social Capital will deplete itself rapidly, causing a collapse in authority structures, civic participation and civil society. Long term of this process will lead to historical-terrible shit.
The only way out is to dramatically slow down immigration, and let the wounds of diversity 'heal' itself with assimilation.
http://www.ancestry.com/historicalinsights/americanization-movement-immigrants
Otherwise, we could see governments in Sweden and Germany exist in-name-only. Distant authorities deprived of unpaid revenue.
>Fun Fact. The Roman Senate survived when the Roman Emperor was deposed.
>Their business was so trifling, however, that they only set weights and scales.
>>1014216
Does this really matter?
Social capital is important to have between your upper and middle class, so that you have trust and goodwill and important business transactions are completed more quickly and smoothly. Cooperation is great.
But does it really matter if the working class are dishonest scum? If they don't do their job you just fire them and pay somebody else to do some menial labour.
>>1014548
Removing Social Capital is a terrible fucking idea, because it removes any kind of Civil Society to improve life. Inevitably, if things fall worse and worse, the 'working classes' become something unrecognizable all together.
The problem emerges when you have to hire one half of the poor to kill the other half. It inevitably bankrupts the nation, like your own nation becomes an occupation. Eventually, the costs become so great that it'll be 3x cheaper just to subsidize the factory than try to build 3,000 men police regiment to prevent the shitstorm.
The OTHER problem is that if the working class keeps growing, it'll start to eat up the High-IQ people in its population. If there are too many High-IQ people 'trapped' in the Working Class, you wind up creating nasty shit like the Naxalites, FARCS or ISIS who can blow the whole system up. (Inequality is tolerable, but mobility is a necessity.)
Let's not even mention if a group of intellectuals figure out how to organize the underclass into a weapon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez
Finally. "Middle Class" is just well payed skilled labor. People overglorify them for what they are. If anything, the lower and upper classes are more significant, because one creates problems for society, while the other one defines society itself.
The goal is to keep the Middle Class at a reasonable size, or else society will topple over into something new. Give men enough "equity" in their society, and they'll fight for it. Give them no "equity" in their society, and the only way they get "equity" is by tearing down their society.
Right now, we are in a calm '19th-century' world where people unconditionally accept things as they are (Liberty, Democracy, Social Justice etc.) Nobody here has a living memory of what it's like when the masses turn against their own society.
Nobody wins the endgame here. Nobody. (Not even the Revolutionaries, who have their own set of terrible shit that's just as bad)
All i know is that if Refugee is confirmed for my state, I am going to whip up a Basic English introductory course and try and partner with local charities/housing authority to sell it.
The refugees will force the Europeans to finally dismantle the welfare state which will be a boon for their economies. They have fantastic infrastructure they just need to cast off the NEET cancer that is killing them.
>>1013461
The difference is there are almost no handouts in the united states. Particularly for men.
