Is med school worth it guys?
>actually wanting to be a medcuck
Not only do you have to deal with the public, you have to deal with the sick public. Plus all those years of schooling and potentially debt to get there. All for a mediocre at best salary.
Tell me if it's worth it.
>>1012979
Over $300,000 a year is a mediocre salary? And yeah, it's the amount of time and money it'll take to get there are making me second guess myself.
>>1012977
Worth it if you can get into it and you enjoy being a doctor.
Doctors don't become doctors for money, they do it because they genuinely enjoy it but it just so happens to earn a lot of money.
>>1012983
>$300,000
What? I mean, that's possible for sure, but it's not uncommon for doctors to make around $100k.
>>1012987
Just kind of a general number for a lot of the more specialized jobs
>>1012987
Not in North America, and really any western country.
Easily $150k/yr+ and that's for general practitioners. If you're a surgeon you make at least $300k/yr.
>>1012983
>Over $300,000 a year is a mediocre salary?
Yeah, because that's definitely the average salary and what are new guy is going to get
>>1012983
>Over $300,000
Yeah if you're a cardiac surgeon maybe. And don't forget the $100,000 malpractice insurance.
>>1012994
>>1012995
It depends where you are willing to practice and whether you are academic or Private. In a rural private practice you can easily get 300,000 for most specialities.
If you do crazy shifts (1week of nights on 1 week off) in a rural area you can top 300k starting reasonably easily.
If you are in an academic centre in a desirable location then pay can drop to 200k and maybe 150k.
This is for specialties btw, I'm not sure abt FM although I heard salaries are increasing in this area.
Yes. If you enjoy being a Doctor, having everyone address you as Doctor, and everywhere you go people telling everyone there that you're a Doctor, then be a Doctor.
The salary is only worth it if you're a Surgeon. In the US, a General Surgeon can pull $300k minimum. If you specialize in something like Cardiac Surgery, you could get $350k, if you specialize even further in Cardiovascular Thoracic Surgery (Surgery of Heart and Lungs) you could easily pull $550k - $600k. The highest earning Surgeons are most of the time Neurosurgeons and Cardiovascular Thoracic Surgeons. My neighbour (Husband and Wife) are both Radiologists, they earn around $300k each. My other neighbours, one is a Radiologist, another is a Pathologist. Also each around $300k. Few more neighbours near me are also Cardiologists, Radiologists, and Pathologists. My Dad is also a Radiologist but my Mom's a Prof.
Becoming a Doctor will take only 6-8 years, but specializing is what takes the other 5-7. You could always work as an MD, then save up some money and continue your Surgery specialization, or just go straight boom boom boom and finish everything. Once you're a Surgeon though, you're going to be at everyone's beck and call, you will have to work at odd hours, leave family dinners to save someone's life, and sometimes, especially if you have a young family if you still can have kids at around age 33 - 37, you won't be with them in their infancy years.
Other than these few cons, it's not really that different than any other job. By the time your kids are teenagers, or in high school, you and your wife, if she's also an MD, which is what will probably happen, should have no problems enjoying your lives with your family.
That's the best thing about being a Doctor, your family is set, and you can retire after 10-15 years of work, if you play your cards right, and live very comfortably, go on vacation 5 times a year, buy anything you want, live in a nice expensive suburb, etc.
>>1013017
So, you have to decide for yourself, do you mind being away from family, always studying, for the first few years of your childs life and marriage with your wife, or do you not mind and you'd rather set them up for success, and retire early, while living a life full of luxury and no worries?
My Dad worked out of country for the first 5 years of my life, since the pay was better, and we've moved around a lot, but ever since my Teenage years, he's been there a lot more than any of my friends' parents who aren't Doctors, instead they're Accountants, Lawyers, Brokers, Bankers, and Consultants.
My Dad can pick me up from school everyday, take me out to lunch, etc etc, basically he can spend time with me, which most other kids do not get. So the pros in my opinion, vastly outweigh the cons, and that's why, I believe that yes, you should become a Doctor if you like what you'd be doing, and want to make you, your family, and most importantly, the people around you, live a life without worries.
I'm in your boat as well, but I've already made up my mind, and I will become a Surgeon, I'm going to go into Cardiovascular Thoracic Surgery, since no one in my family is one yet, and it would make me the highest paid and highest tier Doctor in the family so far, since I do care about outdoing my cousins, since I am the first grandchild in my family for this generation.
Hopefully what I've said helps shed some light, let me know if there's any other questions you think I might be able to help with. I have a lot of first hand experience, mostly because of growing up around a lot of Doctors, and Surgeons.
>>1013017
Its actually orthopods who are paid most on average. Super sub specialising doesnt really improve your income that much as the demand gets smaller for that subspeciality and you may become more restricted to academic centres.
The real earners are the elective procedure heavy, high thoroughput specialities- like ortho as you can pump out arthroscopies, knee replacements and hips.
Cardiothoracics for example has a relatively low elective surgery proportion- you have more emergencies so the work life balance isnt the greatest.
I'm a final year med student myself- I'm thinking plastics atm
>>1013037
I know that Orthopods might make more money, but it's harder to get that job in the first place, since much less are required, so for most people, CVT is the one that would get "them" the most money since it's the easier to find work in CVT than Orthopod
But that's just my view, you might know something else about Ortho that I don't, I don't even know anyone that's an Orthopod, but I know 2 dozen other specializations
>>1013039
Nah CVT is drying up, almost all cardiologists do their own PCI that eats up the CABGs that CVTs used to do.
CVT do some interesting robotic stuff I suppose, and some of them are even doing catheter based stuff but I think cardiology have got there first.
ATM I think the effort: money ratio is with cardiology. I think it used to be radiology but I hear telerad is screwing radiologists over (and reduced renumeration for scans reported).
>>1013024
How did you balance work and school during it all? That's really the only thing holding me back right now
>>1013045
I don't know how to answer about CVT, but I do agree that Radiology is getting to be fairly hard to get into, and less attractive. A lot of my parents friends complained about making a few dollars less per scan for sure, they started complaining in 2012 actually, lol.
But yeah, moneyratio is definitely something to do with Cardio, anything else, unless it's really specific like Ortho or Anesthesia, is really not worth going into at the moment, and even then, Ortho and Anesthesia is still very difficult to get hired in.
>>1013051
Well, I'm not a Surgeon yet, but from experience, I can tell you, a lot of my friends parents who are in fact Doctors and Surgeons, including my Dad, worked very hard the first few years, while I was young, and my friends were young, and then when we started growing up a little they started working more night shifts and stuff like that, so they could be with us more often. My parents also had me when they were 25/26, so that was early, but we had grandparents who could take care of us, so if you have a supportive family, it shouldn't be that hard in the beginning.
My dad is always reading stuff, sometimes he'll be up till 4am just reading nowadays, catching up on whats the latest in the medical world, and there's a lot of conferences to go to, usually paid for by the hospital you work in, so you could always make your life, your entire families life, and take them all around the world, Korea, Singapore, Berlin, for all of these conferences, let them enjoy themselves, while you study/work I guess.
It's an option if you'd like to look into it.
The smart money in medicine is to get PA or NP. 4 years undergrad + 2 year masters. Make $80-$100k per year.
PAs can work any specialty as long as they have a physician sign off. They tend to have less hassle with agreements as well.
NPs have full autonomy in about half the states with some restrictions in others. They can get the "Dr." title through DNP (which is supposed to become the standard). However, they are forced into a singular role. Family NP, Acute Care NP, Psychiatric NP. They can't switch without extended training in another "field."
>>1012977
IMO No.
> Suffering during the best years of your life
> In school until you are nearly 30
> All that responsibility
> All that beauracracy
> Really the majority of your work is to assist fatties and smokers
I would MUCH rather go the business route, find a way to make $100k a year and live without the misery doctors experience.
>>1013114
> tfw going into dietetics
> tfw I will never be called doctor
> tfw I can live very comfortably off 50k
Actually I don't know what to feel.
>>1012977
No it's NOT worth it. I've been a medical doctor for five years already. I'm tired of repeating this so I'll try to keep it short:
- You'll spend the best years of your life studying and getting into debt
- Studying and responsibilities never end
- You'll have to physically work for every penny; no patients means no money
- If you want to earn well, you'll have to put in extra hours compared to other jobs
>>1013114
>>1013114
you think the 'business' route is gonna be flowers and roses you stupid neet?
let me guess, you will have such a great idea that you can work 40 hours a week and just beat everyone else by executing so much better right including the people working 80 and the people with 10 employees doing it for years
talk is fucking cheap
family friend's an orthopaedic surgeon in private practice earning 1+ mil annually
>>1013365
>family friend's an orthopaedic surgeon in private practice earning 1+ mil annually
Kek, this.
Government sanctioned monopoly + free market pricing = GOAT
>>1013114
>I would MUCH rather go the business route, find a way to make $100k a year and live without the misery doctors experience
Wet dreams of a future wageslave, face it man, you have to be really lucky to be succesful in the business route.
Being a doctor seems like it sucks. It's minimum 7 years after an undergrad degree before you start practicing as an independent doctor. After that, you have to worry about malpractice, dealing with your debt, working long hours, and the general misery of missing out on your youth. I ended up going for dentistry because it's definitely not as restricted as medicine and you're able to make more money per unit time.
Don't become a doctor unless you really love working with people and love science. The best advice I've ever received as a pre-med student is: If you can imagine yourself being anything other than a doctor, be that instead. If you can only see yourself being a doctor, then do it.
>>1013882
I wish I had someone to give me that advice in time. I'll never let my children study medicine and throw their best years away.
>>1013114
Doctor here. Don't become a doctor if you don't love the field. My twenties were amazing. Made my greatest friends during medical school and had the craziest experiences there as well. I havent started a family yet and am unsure whether i ever will. (I'm extremely misogynistic) Also, the unlimited amount of nurses and reps that want to have sex with you is a huge plus. Then again, sex isn't everything.
>>1014319
>Don't become a doctor if you don't love the field.
How will I know that before entering med school?
I'm willing to take the risk tho
>>1012977
Can you do anything with an MD other than medical practice? Like the way some JDs go into public administration instead of attorney work?
>>1013882
7 years isn't even that long. 5 years is about the average for straight to phd and it's common for people that get a phd to start out with a masters in which case it's closer to 6 years.
personally, i'm not aware of any phd that will get you anywhere close to the same payscale as an md will.
>>1014325
Other than shadowing and interviewing doctors where you volunteer or work, you don't. Like I said before, if you can imagine being anything other than a doctor be that instead, don't take the risk unless you're sure.
>>1014345
Thanks
>>1014325
I would recommend volunteering in a hospital during high school and undergrad. Personally, I volunteered in a medical clinic doing simple billing and organizing patient charts. This was extremely boring for me, but got my foot in the door. Also, the medical director at the clinic took a liking to me, so he wrote a great LOR for me. Afterwards, I became an EMT and soon after became an ER technician. That's where you'll get the first real taste of what it means to work in the medical field. Expect to work intimately with the doctors and nurses at your hospital. They'll also be great sources for incredible LORs. You should also have a love for learning. As some other anon in this thread already said: doctors become doctors because that's what they wanted to do. It just so happens it pays very well. And boy, does it ever. I could help you or anyone else with any other questions you have. Can't sleep
>>1014341
That's true, but you have to take into account the amount of time you have free when you work. There's a reason there's the stereotype of the cucked doctor, it's true. Just listen to people's stories of residencies and how it doesn't get better afterward.
>>1014319
cool starry bra
If you don't end up a surgeon it isn't worth it.
If you have the skill necessary to be a doctor, you could pick up a skilled trade within 2 years making 60,000. If you saved everything during the 6-8 years you would have otherwise been in medical school, and count the cost of the education itself, you have a hurdle that is nearly impossible for a GP to make back after taxes.
Becoming a doctor appears worthwhile because there's no way to do it short of "working" 6-8 years unpaid (getting your education). If you worked a job and actually saved, you'd have a similar outcome.
>>1014383
What are some worthwhile trades?
>>1012977
At this stage in your captivity you are being prepped for reintroduction into the world. If your education has been a success you will now be a properly civilized person. This means you will respect indications of hierarchy, wait in line, hold your fists, communicate in the language of the state, and suppress your greater natural instincts.
Now that you’re done to graduating—congratulations–your twelve years of schooling qualifies you for $8.00 or so an hour. Just enough to buy two beers with tip at a bar. You’ll probably be needing plenty of those to get through the upcoming years.
Perhaps now you will elect to attend a private college where you’ll induce yourself into more debt than can be realistically paid in a lifetime. Maybe you will enter the grey interior of some corporate farm and toil there nine hours a day until you die.
Or if you’ve really learned something….something that can’t be taught…there’s a chance you just might make a way where there is no way. I hope you do.
Best of luck. Anon :^)
guys idk what i want to do. what can i do with a math major that makes me as much money as being a doctor would
>>1014383
>worth it
You're not considering the social benefits of being a physician in our society. They aren't quantitative obviously but they should be accounted for. Money wise, many other professions can out earn an MD.
>>1012999
4chan BTFO
Doctors make ridiculous money. There is no better career out there for guaranteed high salary and prestige
>>1014424
What other professions out earn MDs? Other than NYC finance?
I can't think of a single one
>>1014329
Yeah of course you can. I went into pharma research. But I could have studied something shorter and easier and end up in more or less the same place.
Most of us who realize that medical practice sucks when it's too late to quit, end up in those "alternate" medical practices like working in a lab, or forensics, medical insurance, making checkups at a company, teaching at a uni, etc.
>>1014424
The social benefits huh? I can't stand all the circlejerking at hospitals between colleagues and all that damn hierarchy. Now outside the hospital, I see the social perks as more of a "consolation prize" for all those lost years.
Notice that most of the people who recommend going into medicine ITT aren't doctors themselves.
>>1014319
>Also, the unlimited amount of nurses and reps that want to have sex with you is a huge plus.
Spoken like not-a-doctor.
My ass would be grilled if I were caught even flirting with a nurse.
>>1013024
>I've already made up my mind, and I will become a Surgeon, I'm going to go into Cardiovascular Thoracic Surgery, since no one in my family is one yet, and it would make me the highest paid and highest tier Doctor in the family so far
Premeds like you are a running joke in med school, get the fuck over yourself.
>>1014918
Dont get caught then, friend.
Go to parties, mingle, have fun. The life of a doctor doesn't have to be depressing or void of fun. Find a balance. Also, are you telling me women are not just throwing themselves at you on a daily basis? My buddies and I get hit on all the time. It's made me numb to sex
>>1013017
A pathologist making $300k? Very, very rare. Must be a very high-up guy/gal, I'm talking national leadership.
Pathology as a specialty is collapsing. I'm a pathologist and have been out of work for a year and a half. Labs are closing left and right, and those just out of training are lucky to get any job offers above $80k.
Some may say $80k is still pretty good, but then they forget taxes, malpractice insurance, and oh yeah, $230,000 in student loan debt. :P
Fuck my life. :/
I think it's worth it, but I'd never be accepted into med school with a 3.0 gpa (last two years gpa is 3.3 I think). This does bring me to bring up a point not considered in this thread: not only do you need to do many years after undergrad, but you also need an absolutely stellar undergrad to become a doctor. You'll need ~3.8 from a good school and a tonne of extra-curriculars, leadership examples, LORs, amazing MCAT, etc. Doctors are a special kind-of person because they've had amazing work ethic and a good head above their shoulders since they were like 10 years old. They aren't absolutely brilliant, like PhD Mathematicians, but there's a reason they're highly regarded.
>>1016427
fuck man, is it really? i want to be a pathologist.
>>1016577
Yup. The market is flooded with experienced pathologists laid off of their prior jobs. Technology is advancing to the point that there will be a greatly reduced need for pathologists in the future too. As it is, many pathologists are just glorified administrators anyway.
I really wanted to practice pathology; it's the primary reason I went into medicine. But I was a decade too late to the party. :(
If you get 2-3 fellowships after residency (a total of 6-7 years of training *after* medical school!) then you might get a job making $150k-$180k depending on sub-specialty and location in the country. But even then, I doubt you could have a full career. The specialty of pathology might not even exist in 10-15 years. Maybe less.
>>1017121
that's frightening. I want to do it for the research. I just got a JCI first author. what specialty should I go to?
I didn't want to work with the public- I'll be honest, I have borderline and don't want to be emotionally affected by patients.
>>1017126
Radiology, epidemiology, maybe anaesthetics to a lesser degree.
your per hour rate is shit. enjoy getting no sleep for the next 20 years. it's okey after that though.
Also med school is REALLY hard to get into in the US, you don't do it on a wing
>>1014409
engineering
>>1018639
just not electrical engineering. A study was released that showed no job growth in that sector.
