>tech is developing at an alarming rate and more and more things are using lithium batteries
>Tesla building gigafactory(with more to come)
>electric cars slowing gaining traction
>I'm predicting driverless, electric cars will be mainstream within 50 years as well.
Does anybody else hear follow lithium and its related industries? I barely ever see anyone talking about it. But it seems to have the most potential. My intention is to invest in mining start-ups with the most future potential, then cashing out after production starts a couple years later. So yes its a mid -to-long term investment. I've seen a copper mine startup go from 50c to 8.00 after production begins. (see CUM.TO) that was years ago but I predicted it. perfectly. What would be the difference with a solid lithium startup?
>>1009126
Now is the time if you're going to invest. Seems like a long term investment that will pay off in the distant future.
When I get out of the military I'm considering working for or starting a PMC and trying to grab a Lithium mine in Africa. They change hands between various warlords and companies like Raytheon every few years.
How long do we give it until a new battery technology becomes established.
Notably sodium ion.
>>1010355
>things that will never happen
>>1010355
his name?? bugs boss
>>1009126
you are half a year too late for the sweet spot. but still profit could be made in the 5 - 10 year run if knowing where to invest.
>>1010355
there are no lithium mines in africa, biggest are in Greenbushes Australia and Antogasta Chile, these are currently the two major global lithium production sites. Also as a junior you'll have a hard time even with more infrastructure than you could establish (e.g. Simbol, WLCDF, BCN, REM, Pure Energy etc.), however since we are in the lithium shortage in the next years you could never know.
Lithium is controlled by an oligopoly of 3 companies. I written about it extensively on /biz couple of months and have no interest doing it again, if you have question ask.
Also for everyone invested in lithium especially in ALB, congratulations. More info will follow in the next days.
>>1010667
Is this reverse psychology? How do I know its not going to crash?
I prefer to buy physical lithium. Just don't keep it in a damp pocket.
>>1010780
DIY, and do not ever invest in shit you know nothing about.
>>1010780
You don't. And it likely will, taking your money with it.
>>1010816
What reasons do you believe it will crash any time soon? Alternatives aren't here yet, and companies are backing the use of lithium batteries in their technology.
>>1009126
Lithium is a dead technology. The next wave of high tech, high capacity batteries is going to be aluminum ion. Cheap as fuck when compared to lithium with about 1000% more charge with none of the explosive dangers.
>>1011450
>I see this ETF as a good investment.
If you mean the
Global X Lithium ETF, that is a bad investment, too many volatiles like TSLA.
If you want to invest in lithium, invest in one of the big three that dominate the lithium market, namely ALB, FMC, SQM. Out of these three ALB is currently the lithium superpower dominating the market share in lithium distribution and the best overall pick, SQM is the second pic however they have legal troubles with the government concerning their mining operations that could turn in either way (extremly risky), FMC made some critical mistakes that made them lose their market share rapidly with almost no chance to recover. Other companies that are in the lithium oligopoly are Ganfeng and Tianqi, however you'll need to be a Chinese citizen to invest in those since they trade on Shenzhen.
Because of the absolute majority of the current technology which is rapidly on the rise, (phones, laptops, pads, electic-vehicles) that are based, possible and relying on the lithium production, we are entering (actually already entered) the lithium shortage, even the biggest distributors like Albemarle (ALB) and Tianqi that have a JV on the greatest lithium production site in Talison are not able to supply the demand on the market. This is a great investment possibility in the juniors, if knowing which one to pick (some are virtual like BCN and REM, others producing like WLCDF and NMX.V, while others are becoming majors like ORCOBRE), a secure choice however are the majors for their share price value is most definitely going to rise and with the lithium demand very unlikely to fall.
>new battery tech aluminium-ion, sodium-ion, meme-ion etc.
still not near production capacity or feasability, also lithium-sulfid composites prove a far higher energy density than any of the meme-ion technologies, and are the next step in the lithium-carbonate > lithium-hydroxide battery evolution process.
Made some fantastic gains trading in some lithium related stocks this past week.
The Santa rally is real.
>>1011537
This shortage is what I'm planning to ride on. The big three will be strained to keep up with demand. I'm personally looking at WLC with a planned full scale production starting around the 2019 mark that will be in the thick of the coming shortage. But ill look into those other juniors as well.
>>1012489
While we're at it, we should do this quickly, when they are still fresh.
WLCDF - also on my radar, they have a pilot plant in Nevada, merged with Lithium Americas that are currently trying to commercialize the Cauchari-Olaroz lithium project in Jujuy Province, Argentina in a JV with POSCO that is developing the reverse-osmosis technology what will cut the 18-month brine extraction (evaporation) period to I believe a month or so, drastically leveling up their output. Very interesting indeed, only downside that it is still more or less virtual (not as virtual as BCN and REM however that just fucked with peoples ignorance and will be producing lithium who knows when).
Look up for PLS.AX and GXY.AX for filling the supply void. ALB and Tianqi have been pushing the lithium product prices in the last month to record highs and will continue to do so, which already shown a great impact on the lithium company share prices over the world.
might aswell put /biz to good use
http://www.youngy.com.cn/rongda-dy/index.asp
Searching for a ticker on this one, cannot find it, do not know are they even trading or not. tl'dr this is the exclusive lithium supplier for BYD the largest producer of battery storage and electrical-vehicles in the world. Was off for 2 years fixing and expanding, is just now coming back online.
>>1009126
Applied physicist here. I've been following lithium very closely myself for all the reasons you posted. Also, just a free tip: Weylian electronics. Still in it's research infancy. You might find one or two odd articles online about it. I imagine we'll see the first prototypes based on weylian electronics in 10-20 years, becoming seriously competitive and eventually dominating in 30 years. By the mid-century it will have completely replaced all of modern day electronics. Keep an eye out for it.
>>1012576
>Weylian electronics
anything I can read myself into, companies developing it? I don't get much info by googling it, other than a reasearch on weylian dark matter and cosmology.
>>1012583
The only thing of value you can read at this point is particle physics and especially modern field theory, in addition to scavenging the internet for any updates from CERN. As I said, It's still in it's *research* infancy so there are no companies developing it. The breakthrough came this summer when it was shown that these proposed particles actually do exist and hold the properties we expected them to, so it's only a matter of 'when' not 'if' this technology will come about. Again, the only thing you can do now is read up on the physics bit and then in 10-20 years I expect you're gonna see startups (or big tech companies like google) get to work on making prototypes using the new technology.
As I mentioned I expect the true impact of this technology to be felt no earlier than in the 2040's to 2050's so no need to go crazy now, just keep your eyes and ears open in the years to come so that you can ensure you're in on it early.
>>1012586
which proposed particles are you referring to?
TESLA has already secured a supplier for there Lithium TSXV: PE
>>1012592
Tesla signed a contract with Bacanora Minerals Ltd. and Pure Enery Minerals Ltd. because it secured them an under-market lithium price of a commodity that the companies in question still do not produce, nor will produce in at least the next 5 years. There will be a trial period of two years too see if BCN and PE could actually develope the lithium-hydroxide quantities needed or not. The rise in stocks of BCN and PE is, as seen so often (especially with Lenigas), is a classical pump on a hype. BCN and PE don't have producing lithium plants other than pilot plants (concept prototypes), everything they now have are claims on some deposits that still aren't measured out and a lot of debt in their hands. If you understand lithium processing (e.g. case with Simbol Materials Inc., which Tesla even considered buying), BCN and PE as it now stands doesn't look like a realistic scenario, although for Musk a no-loss agreement. This works for BCN and PE because with such subpar agreements they are trying to use the Tesla hype to gain investors, when and if they ever produce any lithium that will be able to supply Tesla's demand is for them not the real issue.
>>1012589
Weyl fermions
and they're not proposed, they're confirmed.
was just about to come on and make this thread, good to see sense
>>1012621
weyl fermions have no mass, but electrical charge. So it''s basically electrically charged light.
The great thing is they don't interact with matter the way electrons do, so you'll have electronics that won't produce waste heat, it's circuits won't lose energy/power over long distances (so you can wirelessly transmit electrical currents over *practically* unlimited distances instead of passing it through an ineffective wire without loss of energy), the electronics will have extremely low energy requirements compared to modern-day electronics and the current will move at the speed of light.
This is of course beneficial to all of electronics but especially to computers.
>>1012627
how do you transmit it wirelessly? what kind of circuits can be used, I reckon the weyl semimetal is actually a tantalum arsenide crystal?
>>1012641
Well yeah the weyl was first observed inside a tantalum arsenide crystal as a semimetal but the actual, independent weyl particle on it's own does not interact with matter like electrons do and that is why you can transmit it wirelessly.
If you were "shoot it into the air" so to speak, it wouldn't interact with anything (i.e. matter and/or light), and thereby not change it's momentum nor electrical charge, until it reaches another weyl fermion. So it's effectively wireless transmission of an electrical current.
>>1009126
>What would be the difference with a solid lithium startup?
Noticing which one are virtual and which one are actual, is it a spodumen or a brine and the fiscals. Also the location of their sites may play a role.
Lithium shills. Just bagholders trying to offload their lithium bags. Probably bought near the ATH.
Lithium is going nowhere.
>>1013343
Interesting. I especially liked the part where you provided absolutely no facts supporting your statement. Nice.
Been looking a bit the last couple of days and Galaxy Resources Limited GXY.AX is my best pick on a junior, considering their balance sheet and resources available. If interested give it a look and share what you think.
http://www.galaxyresources.com.au/
> the largest Lithium reserves in Europe are in Finland
> they're already scouted out, and the company (Keliber) will IPO next year
> the demand of Lithium will be huge as electric cars, tablets keep going up in demand
Being at Nasdaq Helsinki, I doubt many muricans here will be able to buy. Still, it's a relatively safe bet, I'll be taking part when it happens.
>>1013699
wrong approach but DIY and good luck
are stock prices going up or down in the short term; when is a good time to buy in?
>>1013803
the best time was in august, it is still a good time, but you have to make a good pick.
>are stock prices going up or down in the short term.
short term, volatile - long term, due to shortage, up. one can see chinese lithium producers like Ganfeng and Tianqi going 200% since august (although most if it because of the sell-off in crisis that scared the investors), big producers like ALB and SQM went 30% up. Some juniors like Nemaska went 80% up, due to new permits, others like Western Lithium are still volatile +/- 10%.
>>1013860
>Ganfeng and Tianqi going 200%
make that 150%
>>1013860
>ALB
>SQM
where do u see these in the next 2-5 years
>Nemaska
What do those new permits mean for this one going out that time frame
>Western Lithium
why is this one so volatile
what are good sources to look into this further?
>>1013917
>ALB and SQM
ALB and SQM are lithium giants, that control the lithium market by oligopoly, only way for a junior to even get a market share next to them is if there is a lithium shortage and they cannot satisfy the demand, which according to people in the industry is already here. thats why it is sane to invest in the big corporations and risky to invest in the juniors if there is none since ALB is currently in the phase of opening their La Negra operation to meet the growing lithium demand.
If the market on lithium grows in the next five years, as it seems that it will since every new technology seems to rely on the lithium-ion battery technology from phones, to electrical-vehicles and micro-grid electrical storage facilities / distributed grid (that one is a big thing in the future, Nevada already pushing the law since a couple of months) their share price will rise. ALB together with Tianqi already dictates the lithium commodity price because of the JV in Tallison which is the biggest lithium production site in the world.
>Nemaska
They signed in November a long-term supply agreement with a battery producer. One has to understand that in the lithium business, there are hundreds of juniors most of them virtual, that just have a mining site which they more often than not didn't even measure out completely (e.g. Bacanora, Pure Energy, etc. just to name a few). Then also you have juniors which have pilot plants but no investment to actually build a producing plant, some of the go bankrupt (e.g. Simbol Ltd). Nemaska has no plant and only a mining site, investing in them is a risk but could also be a good pick (http://www.nemaskalithium.com/assets/documents/docs/nemaska-lithium-whabouchi-feasibility-study.pdf) depending if you trust them or not.
>Western Lithium
similar case as with Nemaska but without any supply agreements
>good sources
http://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/lithium-investing/top-lithium-news-tesla-motors-sqm/
>>1009126
China owns lithium, surely. OR is it Chile??
Maybe worth investing in the crowd that Tesla has.
Don't forget that Lithium has been a battery medium for a decent amount of time, maybe the next big thing will kill it (like nickel cadmium is kill, nickel metal hydride is kill, etc)
It's high rick, this lithium business
>>1013945
>Maybe worth investing in the crowd that Tesla has.
would not recommend read >>1012598
>maybe the next big thing will kill it
there is yet to be a next big thing that will have an energy density surpassing a Li-Ion battery (also not all Li-Ion batteries are the same, most common is Li-Carbonate, one you have in your phones and laptops, then you have the higher grade Li-Hydroxide, one you have in Tesla cars for example, there are companies now working on the Li-Sulfide with even greater energy density, some also on different Lithium-SiliconGraphene architectures).
Of course a next big thing can always happen, but not in the next years by reasonable assumption, and if yes, not in the magnitude that would commercially be able to replace it. Li-Ion batteries exist since the 90's (looking at Sony's development that revolutionized its architecture) however full implementation of the technology was reached some 10 years from then.
>>1013953
Also startups developing supercharging Li-Ion batteries in 2015, will change the way we use our gadgets (or fuel our cars, Tesla for example) drastically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DhJZAhjbcI
>http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-24/storedot-s-one-minute-phone-charge
Finally some quality thread, thanks anon
>>1010789
this
I wouldn't ever buy paper lithium. If you can't hold it you don't own it.
>>1009126
not sure if electric cars will ever be mainstream considering how much money governments get from oil companies and such. It's like how even though smoking has been proven to be fucking terrible for you and causes shitloads of deaths the government will never ban them or make them illegal because they would lose too much money
>>1014458
>oil will last forever even though it's a finite resource
It amazes me how fucking retarded people can be
>>1014458
>not sure if electric cars will ever be mainstream considering how much money governments get from oil companies and such.
you mean how much money oil companies get from goverments, it seems enough to consider investing in different alternatives (e.g. Tesla). also China not the USA is the biggest electric vehicles market, with also the biggest consumer market of vehicles and the biggest producer of electric-vehicles and storage devices in the world (a company Buffet invested a considerable sum of money in 2014).
Lithium air when?
>>1014834
hard to say, cathode, anode, stability, a lot of the parameters to create a stabile product are still poorly understood. on paper however it looks great.
>>1010512
how much lithuim is left on the earth, and can it be recycled from electronic devices that use it
>>1014458
Electric cars will become mainstream once the oil glut is used up
we're talking extreme price rises, mass hysteria, etc
>>1014852
>how much lithuim is left on the earth
I reckon more than enough, but currently the production is lacking, not the resource pool.
>and can it be recycled from electronic devices that use it
yes it can, but at a greater cost than mining it directly from spodumen or producing it from brine evaporation, making it currently a non-feasible assesment.
>>1009126
Lithium is old and busted.
>>1010421
Duke uni came up with aluminum ion batteries. They charge ridiculously quick but dont have a high power output yet.
Related, what do you guys think of rare earth, specifically company like Lynas corp. It has been loosing money in streak.
>>1016749
are you chinese bro?
