So this university near me is offering a new program in September 2016, it's called Honours BSc in Game Programming. In this program you get a BSc in Game Programming, plus a 3 year Diploma in Advanced Game Development in the 4 year time period. (2016-2020).
>1 degree + 1 diploma in 4 years
What does /biz/ think about Game Programming (Honours BSc, not BA) + a diploma in Advanced Game Development as a college thing to do?
I'm really interested in Game Programming, and I have a lot of really good ideas for games, and it's stuff I'd really like to build someday when I acquire the tools. Since now is the time to explore, do you think it's fine to go try it out? I could always still go to Law School after (my dream) so it's just something as an Undergrad that's easy and fun and could be very profitable in the future for me if I do manage to create my own online mmo rpg racing game.
>>1007664
Fucking game programming?
You know everyone laughs at that shit right?
is the university reputable in the video game industry? if the program is not well known then its probably not that useful. ask to see some statistics on where previous graduates have ended up, how many had relevant jobs lined up at graduation?
you have to be careful with these specialized degrees because its easy to get sold a dream.
>>1007676
If you want to do some reading... http://www.brocku.ca/webfm_send/29219
That is the complete course syllabus for both the BA Game Design and the BSc Game Programming + Diploma Advanced Game Development (basically every technical thing about the program).
If you want the short form version, this is it: http://brocku.ca/game/game-programming
It has the links for the course listings, so some of the courses I can choose from for the degree, but keep in mind, I can do a lot more electives on top of these and I have too.
>>1007674
It's not some shitty Game Design degree, it's a solid fundamentals based program, that is brand new for September 2016, and it's one of the only universities in my country with a program as well rounded as this, plus the incentive of 2 qualifications, an Honours BSc and an Advanced Diploma in Game Development.
It's also a VERY competitive program, only admitting 10 students in 2016 September. So, not many graduates from it, meaning better job prospects and co op placements.
>>1007674
>>1007676
This is a good summary: http://www.brockpress.com/2015/09/new-game-development-program-coming-to-brock/
You're basically learning all about the Game Programming aspect, AS WELL as the Game Design aspect, so you're not just speciallized in one aspect of Game Creation, but in both.
That is what is special about this program. Also, networking opportunities at both institutions, Niagara College AND Brock University.
>>1007681
the most important thing is that the program actually matters. do they have a history of educating successful game developers? if they do, they will gladly tell you about it and put you in touch with graduates. if not, they will make excuses when you start asking.
>>1007702
Fuck you shitposting faggot from Yorkdale, get the fuck out of here you bum ass bitch this is my education not yours you fucking worthless fanshawe collegeing mother fucker.
>>1007751
What are you talking about? You asked for advice and I simply informed you that it is the lowest ranked school in just about every category.
"Video games programming" is a meme. Be ready to have extensive C++ and math knowledge for writing your own (non-trivial) game engine.
>>1007755
I already know some programming and I'm an active self motivated learner, and I'm already graduated, in my gap year right now for travelling and taking a break
So Im confident I'll be able to self learn a lot of C++ and other things during my degree, I also go to a lot of hackathons and similar events in Ontario, plus a few in the USA like hackprinceton and hack Stanford.
>>1007758
>I already know some programming and I'm an active self motivated learner
What programming languages do you know?
Have you worked with OpenGL and similar libraries already?
>>1007687
Congrats anon, it's like you've found a machine that's both a food processor AND a blender. Your being sold a shitty product and the marketing reaks of it, there's got to be a name for this kind of pitch. Whatever you decide, I'd recommend avoiding sales, I think you might struggle with it.
>>1007681
That's why the saying goes - if you can walk, you can go to Brock
>>1007681
there's also - if you're as dumb as a rock, go to brock
i think you should take the plunge OP
I would rather study something IT related where you learn programming in general. And while you study also teach yourself how to do game design, create scenarios and use online tutorials to learn game developing. Then you can be a game developer and if it is shit then you can still switch to any other dev-job.
As far as I know working in that field is pretty hard. Lots of overwork for not so much payment.
You're honestly better off just studying for a Computer Science degree and doing game dev work in your free time. You'll be a better candidate for games companies as they'll see you're self motivated and actually interested in the industry and not just some autist who's parents said he can make video games for a living if he goes to school. On top of that you'll be able to get a job easily in other sectors of programming if you can't find a job in game programming.
No degree but a portfolio with a few original games that aren't a basic as fuck platformer or contribute to larger games then you're already a better candidate for games programming than someone who went to university and didn't do any work outside of class hours.
>>1007790
Don't really care about payment and salary, just want around $60k a year so I can have enough money to work on my own game I want to develop and then host. I've been making plans for it for 2 years now and I need this knowledge to bring it to life, and that's the main reason I'd want to go into Game Programming.
>>1007758
Nice job, "I really need to become an investment banker" guy. You got another one.
>>1007792
I see your point, CS is more broad and employable, but I plan on launching my own online F2P mmo racing game while I'm in university, and I'm very good with math/finance already. CS I feel would take up too much time from me to really learn myself from the work some of my friends are doing and spending basically all evening doing homework.
I would take a lot of math classes with my game dev so my degree would basically be math + CS + game programming because I'll make sure to take all the toughest classest from each discipline
Is it really a very very very horrible idea, or can it work if I have a lot of co op and internship experience as well as experience hosting my own f2p game?
>>1007799
I think this might be one of the regular Canadian shitposters here.
I think he has made similar threads before about either becoming a Doctor or becoming a Lawyer.
>>1007797
I'm not that far into OpenGL to say I'm even an intermediate at it, but I do have experience for sure with it.
>>1007806
What have you developed so far?
Can you show us any previous work?
>>1007802
A portfolio of relevant experience is more valuable than any co-op/internship. If you really want to get a job in game dev then making an online f2p mmo racing game is a great idea. If you think you can actually release something of value, you'll have a great chance at getting a job as a games programmer if you're ready to move to Montreal/Vancouver. Any playerbase you gather is also great as it'll show you have marketing skills/made an actual enjoyable game (and you can profit off of them of course)
You're just going to decide in the time if you need money or not. If your parents are supporting you it might be better to skip a co-op and go 100% into your game.
I don't think extra math classes would help. It would just hinder your GPA and not let you focus fully on the important CS classes. Only take applied math past the required calculus and whatnot.
>>1007820
Yeah, my parents can support me 100%, they're well off, that's why I'm not worried about salary, as long as I have enough to rent an apartment and buy $20 worth of food everyday or something, and maybe drive a nice BMW M or Mercedes AMG car (5 series or E class+) I'm happy. My parents have no mortgage, earn $150k a year, and my sister is going to become a Pharmacist or something, so she'll be caking as well, so money isn't an issue for my family or me in terms of a job.
I'm actually writing my idea for a video game right now, because to get into this program with only 10 spots you have to write two essay's, and explain why you want to get into Game Programming, as well as an idea for a game you have and how this program will allow you to achieve it.
I've been playing games for 7 years, and one or two games for 6 years straight and I know a lot about marketing items to players, and how to make a game profitable while still being F2P for the poorer people. I've also helped Game Managers out many times with troubleshooting and patching hacks and so on and so forth, as well as marketing and community management in-game and on the gaming forums, I have almost 3 years "unofficial" experience in that already, and around 10 years of "gaming" experience with online massively multiplayer online games with playerbases of 20,000+ all the way down to playerbases of 5,000+. I also speak like 4 languages fluently enough, and understand 6 or 7 pretty well, including French and English. I've been taking Korean in classes as well, and continue to do that right now, because Korea has a huge online gaming industry.
I've played almost all the f2p mmo racing games, but there are only one or two that are really good, and many companies are now trying to get into the market like EA with NFS Online, and World of Speed, and Drift City, and The Crew, and more. But none of them have any real "communities" that are actually really good.
>cont
>>1007857
The best ones are probably NFS World and Drift City, but they were closed down because of lack of updates and good content that players wanted. My strategy would be, if I was building an f2p mmo racing game, to host it myself and control all developing in house, so I could take suggestions, and create something really special, and I have dedicated loads of time to NFS World and Drift City and I know basically everything there is to know about those games' communities and what f2p mmo racing game players want to see in games so my expertise, experience, and point of view, as well as perspective will be very powerful in my venture I think.
I was thinking of taking the extra math courses that would aid in my programming mainly, as well as some marketing courses and economic courses, since I'm not really good with economics (yet) but i understand game economics very well, just not that that that well...
>>1007865
Wait, you're not the guy that first wanted to buy Drift City then gave up on that then wanted to hack Drift City, are you?
>>1007802
>I'm very good with math/finance already
OP is clearly a troll, but please for the love of god nobody still in highschool, or undergrad for that matter, ever say this.
>>1007866
Nope not that guy, buying Drift City is stupid, because the developers will never give it up to you
Also, hacking it is even more stupid because you'll kill the game faster than making anything worthwhile off of it
Also, why hack a game with <25 paying players, that just sell to each other and no one makes profits worth a damn... $500 a month? nice, I get $500 a week as allowance lol.
>>1007870
Has to be a troll.
>Has an "idea" for 2 years
>Doesn't even try working on it
>>1007876
I am not a troll... I have done a lot of work, I've researched a lot of different games, and have a lot of experience with mmo racing f2p games with huge communities and small communities. I am a gamer myself, and I understand what needs to happen, and the problem I see is, too many games are sold off and not cared for properly and that's why they deteriorate in quality over time, some more drastically in others. The best way to fix this, is to keep everything close, and not sell or outsource work to anyone you can't control fully. I've also written a lot of notes, pages of word documents and lots of calculations in terms of profits and costs. I am very confident within 1 year after launch I can create a game that generates $1.2M in revenue, 35% of which is strictly profit. That includes marketing expenses, advertising expenses, and launch parties in universities and schools in North America.
Also being a free2play game, it will attract large numbers of players, and if I'm able to greenlight it to Steam quickly, I can make it even better.
>>1007888
holy shit word documents!?
>>1007891
It's nice you're impressed by word documents. Man you gotta move up from WordPad!
>>1007888
>I am a gamer myself, and I understand what needs to happen, and the problem I see is, too many games are sold off and not cared for properly and that's why they deteriorate in quality over time
Wow amazing! It's not like millions of people are exactly like you and want to "make games" because of their "extensive gaming experience".
>I've also written a lot of notes, pages of word documents and lots of calculations in terms of profits and costs
Can we see some of this? Show us a preview so we can see what we're working with.
Also why didn't you start working on this brilliant idea years ago?
Is this your post btw OP?
https://warosu.org/biz/thread/S826468#p826505
>>1007888
Why not just go to school for buisness? It's easier, opens plenty of good paying career options, and it's clearly what you're more interested in, else you'd be on a programming form asking for advice on actually building the game. You can even still make the game, you'd just be responsible for finding investors and managing development.
>>1007905
Because business doesn't interest me as much as creating a game, I do enjoy it, but not nearly as much as I enjoy being able to create something and direct impact some peoples lives and bring them happiness, things to do, and make money from them at the same time. I want to know how to do everything in my game, as well as everything in the business, and from what I've learned, the business aspect is easier than the programming aspect, and I can take up business any time I want, but after I have something I can be proud of.
>>1007898
Millions of people have the same mindset maybe, but millions of people do not have the resources I have at my disposal, like money, personality, drive, ambition, and most of all, again, resources.
I can show some folders I have made and you can see the work I've done on this.
>>1007925
Why haven't you started then if "it's your passion"?
>>1007927
I've been doing other things, I don't just play video games all day, I have other commitments, like school, and hackathons and competitions and trips to go on.
Now though, I have time and resources and control of my life to put my mind to what I want to do, which is why it's easier for me to dedicate my next few years to this venture.
>>1007927
There are one of two answers here:
He's a troll like the guy who makes the 'why are you still living at home thread', 'why are you still encouraging capitalism threads', and etc.
Or
He doesn't have enough money.
>>1007935
If it was really "your passion" you would make time for it. You mentioned you're taking a gap year, that one whole year of no school. Do you currently work?
What competitions and memethons have you gone to? How often are they?
You had more than enough time to start if this was your "passion".
>>1007942
You don't need money to start working on a project.
>>1007925
I'd argue business is about creating something, and yes in general it's probably better to be on the creative/building side, but not if your skill set is clearly biased towards business and you actually have an interest in it. Speaking as an engineering major regretting his choice....
This is the worst idea I've seen on /biz/.
OP studying "Game Development" is literally a meme, go study something useful like Computer Science and go on to work for game companies assuming you'd even enjoy it. Game development is literally the worst software dev. job, even lower than shit-tier code monkey jobs at Oracle.
>>1007947
You technically need money to support yourself while you work on the project and/or to buy equipment/software/expertise.
>>1007955
He lives with his parents and mentioned they are quite well off.
>>1007977
jesus christ
is this real life
>>1007903
>>1007977
What the heck
Definitely not me in that goal thread, I don't post in threads like that, also I was born in fucking Edmonton and live in Niagara Falls LOL. Also, that AMC theatre post is also not me, not sure if you think its mine or not, but definitely not mine lol
I only post in threads about famous people on /biz/ like Shkreli and Trump, only been on /biz/ for like a year, and I'm usually on /g/ or /b/ or /pol/
>>1007955
I have money
>>1007951
Well, yeah business is about creating something, but you're dependent on what other people create, to really make money. I want to create something, and create ways to make money, I want to be apart of the entire process from creating it, hiring my team, running the game, and profiting off of it and eventually turning it into a large game host and developing company, something that becomes well known.
>>1007986
>I'm usually on /g/ or /b/ or /pol/
That would explain it.
>>1007993
Explain what?
>>1007664
>shill for the program
>>1007995
Why you are so delusional and dumb.
>>1007999
... Explain how I'm delusional and dumb?
>>1008002
Because you think that "game programming" isn't a meme.
You need a base in computer science in order to make your own game engine you fucking dolt.
>>1008005
You also need to be well verse in game developing to create a fucking game. Also the program includes some engine classes, as well as the ABILITY TO ADD MORE ELECTIVES, which can include the electives from CS which will help me understand game engine creation as well
FUCKING IDIOT.
>>1008010
>FUCKING IDIOT.
You are the idiot here. Enjoy your worthless degree and your failed game.
>>1008010
Ah yes, nothing like people asking for advice then spouting insults when they give them said advice.
>>1008014
I don't get why people keep making these kinds of threads when they refund any advice.
What's the point? If you made up your mind already just go do it then.
>>1007664
Get a proper CSCI degree with sufficient mathematics background, then take the game programming classes as electives, not the other way around
>>1007664
I wouldn't do it. You're better off studying computer science, and taking the graphics classes as your electives. It's all going to cover a lot of the same ground any how.
> I'm really interested in Game Programming, and I have a lot of really good ideas for games, and it's stuff I'd really like to build someday when I acquire the tools
Small independent shops don't make money, and working at a big game company is less fun than working at an investment bank (and you're paid a lot less).
Spending time writing and releasing a game is fine, don't expect to make money off it though.
I meet a lot of young people who want to write video games. Then they get to their FIRST computer graphics class, and have to do matrix math, and memorize Bresenham's line algorithm, and learn Phong shading, and so forth, and pretty soon they lose interest.
The bottom line is the degree is a scam on two ends. One, you're not going to learn game programming any better than a CS student who takes those graphics classes as electives. They just call the course what they do to fool YOU. Second, employers won't like it. Game companies won't give a shit because all they care about is that you know your way around Unity and understand OpenGL and the graphics pipeline etc. Also, if you ever decide to change programming careers, CS looks better than "game development" .
If you really want to, it would be better to get a BSCS and then a masters concentrating in computer graphics.
>>1008224
This man speaks all the truth. OP is a troll but I hope any gullible children reading this topic see this and understand what a waste of time "Game Development" is. I wish someone had told me all this stuff before I got halfway through uni but thankfully I had friends who graduated and got jobs in various game programming gigs. They scared me straight.
Work somewhere reasonable, like a finance company. Then you can make vidya in your free time.
>>1007664
dont get it twisted you are getting an Art Degree.
as with all art degrees, there is a lot of room to be mediocre, a little room to be successful, and a sliver of room to make it big.
if its a passion of yours, of course pursue your passion. just realize the chance of making decent money compared to something like regular programing is lower
>>1007664
oh my god please don't take this course. please OP. i really hope you're still reading this
i took interactive arts and science at brock, which was their first attempt at a game studies program, and it was the worst experience of my life. i wish every day i could go back and do it all over again. what a complete waste of time and money.
they have 0 industry ties, all of their faculty are failed english/philosophy professors who jumped the bandwagon into this new artform, thinking they might get their names in the history books. they know nothing about game studies or game design you couldn't get from hitting the library and lurking games twitter for a month. in fact that would be a much better, quicker, and relevant education than what you would get from the failures teaching at brock.
and no, this program is not "competitive", it's just that only about a dozen people a year are stupid enough to think it would be a good idea to spend $60k and 4 years of their life to study game design, let alone at brock. the people i studied were fucking hacks and the people you study with probably will be too. you will waste all of your talent here. at absolute best maybe you can secure a teaching position at the end of your 4 years if you're actually good.
i know i sound completely autistic but believe me you want nothing to do with this dogshit program. study computer science, at a better school if possible, and read about game design in your spare time, make games in your spare time.
>>1009388
>He actually went to fucking brock
lmao what were you thinking? Honestly at that point you may have went to college.
>>1009583
i /wasn't/ thinking. i was a sheltered kid and i had no idea what i was doing. i barely knew what university was, frankly. we live near the school, i liked video games, my parents told me to enroll in the program, so i did it.
i begged them to let me wait and work for a couple years while i figured it out, cause i had some sense that this was a huge mistake, but they really sounded like they knew what they were talking about, so i did what they said.
my dad made enough money to pay mine and my sister's tuition, to afford a nice house etc, surely he would know best.
i didn't know yet that most of his generation just stumbled into fortune. they didn't have to think. they didn't have to struggle. they just stood in line and did what they were told, and after 4 years, money was there waiting for them. his advice was outdated and i wish i had some way of knowing that back then.
>>1009842
>>1009388
Damn man... I'm kind of like you, well off, parents paying, I didn't even know the tuition was $15k a year Q_Q thought it was cheaper like the usual $10k/year.
Anyways, damn man. Got me thinking about this degree now, Computer Science might be a better option and then learn Game stuff on my own I guess and continue to go to hackathons and game dev events and shit to learn more / network.
Game design course graduate here. Get a computer science degree instead. Most, if not all game companies' job requirements do not care about these kinds of diplomas yet computer science degrees come up often. My advice is get a computer science degree and learn how to make a game portfolio whenever you can.
>>1007684
>it's a solid fundamentals based program
Why not just computer science? Those are the fundamentals.
It's like taking a Web Development degree: worthless because the technology moves so fast that your' fundamentals' will be outmoded by the time you get the degree.
Honestly bro, if you're going to be in school for four years, just get a comp sci degree to be on the safe side. You'll easily be able to land any kind of job you want, especially in the game development field. Best of luck deciding.
Game Dev? Simple is sometimes OK?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.terminaltwofourty.rmgsoftware
I feel like you can do exactly the same shit without paying for a "game developer" degree in your spare time. Assuming you aren't some lazy asshole that is.
