Car rate Thread
Its easy:
Post your ride and rate others
>>693784695
Not even sure what that car is 4/10
>>693784695
thats a Alfa Romeo GTV btw
>>693784695
I've never seen one on the road even. All cars of this model seem to be abandoned in garages here
>>693785495
Murica/10
>>693786744
Arent Skodas complete shit?
>>693786878
not any more. they use to be shitbox eastern european crates but that was >20 years ago, modern skodas are pretty good
>>693786878
If you consider a dozen "car of the year" awards in 3 consecutive years, then yes they are
Please Rate.
1.4 Turbo, AWD, and 6-speed manual.
>>693784695
We don't get Alfa's stateside so I'm afraid I cannot rate.
>>693785495
Full-size trucks can range from from 5/10 to 10/10 (Raptor). I need some info, mate. I see your Silverado doesn't have the Z71 off-road package, so no limited-slip differential for you so -1 right there. If it's the 4.3 V6 and 2WD, I'll give you a 5/10 because it's still newer and clean. If it's the 5.3 V8 and 4WD, I'll give it a 7/10.
>>693786744
Seats and Skoda's don't make it to the States. Again, I'm afraid I can't rate.
Audi A6 2011
>>693788023
You didn't rate others, faggot, so you will be ignored until then. Also, specs in case you rate. 2.0T or V6, manual or auto...
Bump.
>>693784695
only poorfags define themselves by their cars...
>>693788698
It's like the Koreans read about trendy front ends—grille opening covering front bumper, vertical faux inlets, wonky headlight shapes, etc—and just smashed it all together without ever seeing it.
Fucking 1/10 — disgusting.
>>693788698
>>693788958
Fucking rate too, faggots.
>>693789119
Dead thread. Why even bother.
>>693789054
We're only rating cars. We're not equating our opinion of one's car to one's worth.
There's only two interesting threads going on in /b/, this one and the pee porn one. Is everyone really fapping it to ponies and traps or laughing at cringe/banana threads that there's no room for anything else?
>>693789738
the average age of posters on /b/ goes down about 5 years at the weekend. you might have better luck with a bike or skateboard thread
since the designer for bmw for 50 years moved over to hyundai. i picked up his first model of the hyundai elantra 2017. fully loaded. its actually not too shabby
>>693790242
>Since a BMW designer moved to Hyundai
>I bought a Hyundai.
Bullshit.jpg
You bought a Hyundai because you are poor, not because you were on the fence between a 3-series and an Elantra.
That said, this took Hyundai's design language and made it for more cohesive and clean than the slapped together shit of whatever this is:
>>693788698
>>693785495
Alfa GTV
Your ignorance should be punished, even for an amerifag
>>693790736
Someone is butthurt because they're 14 and have nothing better to do than bash cars that aren't Ferrari's, Lamborghinis, etc. Go away child, men are talking.
>>693790937
I'm 28 and drive a Fiatized Jeep. I've respect for all sorts of autos. Also, I complemented the cleaner look of Hyundai's latest design language. So how do you get that I'm either butthurt, am 14, or only fancy exotic cars? The only thing I ridiculed was anon's lame excuse on why he got the Hyundai.
>>693788958
Enjoy having your car as reported stolen, fucker.
>>693791479
you made the whole thing up anyway, he never said he was on the fence between a 3 series and an elantra, he just said bmws designer going to hyundai was a factor in his choice
but thats what happens when you scour everyones posts looking for something to criticise or pick on
>>693785495
9/10. I drive an 06 silverado
>>693791479
You strike me as a person that had never heard of Fiat until they came back to North America.
>>693791951
It's not explicitly stated, sure, but it was implied. There's better ways to word that to remove the implication.
Go from:
SINCE BMW designer moved to Hyundai, I bought his first Hyundai
To:
I bought the first Hyundai designed by a BMW designer.
LearnToWriteGooder.png
>>693785495
no worries, its eurotrash
The daily beast
>>693792922
and the weekend warrior.
>>693792609
nope. you made it up because you defaulted to a hostile and critical posting style. I read no such implication whatsoever in anons original post
if youre really 28 as you say you should try and act like it instead of treating /b/ as a competition to be the biggest asshole
>>693792609
Not everyone's first language is English you pompous fuck. There's more to the world than the US, so educate yourself on class and other cars of the world that aren't SUVs or pickups
>>693788172
Just post you rating, fing thread police here
>>693784695
>>693787461
Those straps will fuck up your seals along the top of your doors.
heres my 98 fairlane shes a beauty big as a whale , not a little teeny tin can
>>693793535
I like the new beetle so much
check my sicc ride bruh.
*cries in a corner*
2015 6-speed
Okay so. It has 59 horsepower.
0-60 in 14.8 seconds
I pay 180 euro's a month for this car. And I didn't include maintenance.
>>693793893
get a real car
>>693793974
180 bucks a month for an polo ? why?
Besto Truck Inbound
>2.8 Litre Turbo Diesel
>3500kg Towing
>1000kg Payload
>4x4 with Low-Range
>Stock Rear Diff Locks
>6 Speed Manual
Only weighs just under 2000kgs, great in the sand.
>>693793998
Where's yours, faggot?
Because reasons.
>>693793132
Okay. Whatever you say, guy.
my bmw 320 gt sport line 2014
got it second hand last year from an old fella who was replacing it for a Mercedes Benz. Shit was pretty cash. This was the original picture he sent me. He said he was looking for quick sale so I figured it was legit.
It's a good car and I haven't had a problem with it yet.
>>693786744
>has a skoda
>not a taxi driver
pick one
>>693794081
Well let's start with the road tax. It's 80 a month.
My insurance is like 40 because i'm 20.
Fuel is fucking expensive. so a full tank is like 60
Welcome to the netherlands
>>693794122
mines the fairlane a few posts above asshole , my starter motor generates more power
>>693784695
I have a Ferrari F12tdf
>>693794194
>looking for a quick sale
>legit
To me it sounds like the opposite.
>>693793695
Do a skid uleh/10
>>693794283
road tax is like registration right?
nice.
I've never been a fan of hatchbacks, but if I had to have one, it would be a volks. rate mine (the bmw 320)
97' Suburban
Probably my daily driver for the next four years
>>693794706
At least its nice to sit in while you wait for a tow.
>>693784695
Italian spotted 8/10
Rate.
1.4 turbo, AWD, manual.
>>693793893
Solid car. 8/10.
>>693793974
Perhaps that works for where you live so... not bad? Since gas is cheaper and roadways wider in North America, it wouldn't be the wisest choice over here though.
>>693794107
9/10. Best truck in best trim. Well done.
Well, this might just be the best place to ask.
Eurofags, what do you think would be the best car to get for around €6,000?
I'm finally looking to get rid of my first car. I know 6K is not too much, but it'll have to do for now.
Any suggestions?
>>693794802
Holy shit they aren't even trying to pretend they didn't steal the design. Shameless.
>>693794802
>literally who; the brand.
>>693794802
>>693794802
The 2014 CLS 550 is pretty reliable
>>693787461
God damn, after looking up the specs of that renegade I rate it a solid 2/10.
>1.4 Litre Petrol Turbo
>AWD, not even 4x4 Low Range
>1500kgs unloaded
>31000 AUD
To compare, Here's a better 4x4, a 2016 Suzuki Jimny, Did murricans ever get the Sierra? Also this is not an updated model of the Samurai.
>1.3 Litre N/A
>4x4 with Low Range
>950kgs
>19000AUD
You'd have to be pretty special to trust Jeep to break down every 1000km's, most people in Australia just sell them after 10000km's of ownership or they just burst into flames, they are all hilariously unreliable.
>>693794827
Why on earth would you pay money you earn for a fiat jeep.
gg
>>693784695
7/10 engine´
4/10 looks
>>693789054
>ywn be this insecure and poor
2002 F250 7.3 powerstroke. Lariat package. 112,000 miles
R8
My new Mercedes-Benz CLS 63 AMG 4matic V8 Biturbo.
Picked it up a few weeks ago. So chuffed with it. I'm always exited to drive it. It's better than sex to drive and it's the best on freeways.
>>693795923
Fucking sick
also had to take pay cuts to afford it. worth it. (the Mercedes)
>>693789054
>Busrider
Cant wait to fly past you when you have to stop at everyone elses house before you finally reach yours in triple the time, cuck.
>>693794125
7/10 because you missed the animu girls
>>693793695
8/10 that's comfy but what was the designer of that front grill and headlights thinking?
Here's my 1992 spaceship. (259 000 miles, if someone is wondering)
>>693784695
10/10 wish I could get one over here
>>693796314
It's flipping mid-engine, just like a Ferrari!
>>693796314
does the exhaust make the whistle sound like all old taragos
192 ps of German reliability
All the Emissions!
>>693796314
7/10
Only because thats how many children you can fit inside it
Have this for 2 more weeks, then get a new GTI Performance Pack
>>693796707
#datRoccoasstho
Used to have a 2001 Dodge Ram Laramie 6.3L Cummins TD when I worked as a finish carpenter. I miss that truck. Now I rock pic related
>>693796549
I'm not sure. The exhaust is kind of rotting off so it might be past the point of making any particular sounds.
>>693794400
That boat needs all the power it can just to move.
>>693797223
i...is that two catalytic converters?
C7 2015 7 -speed douche reporting in
>>693795295
Jimny's are very solid vehicles from what little I've read of them — we don't get them stateside — if a bit spartan.
>>693795326
Not going to lie, FJ's are very solid, 7.5/10.
To you both:
If genuine off roading where high ground clearance, maximum wheel articulation, and crawl ratios where were my interests lied, a Renegade would be shit choice, no doubt. If it were, a Tacoma or Wrangler would have been my pick, I'm sure.
However, my soft roading doesn't exceed New England snowstorms or riding on the beach. In that case, I was looking for a car with well composed road manners, something a little fun to drive both on and off road (turbo stick is still pretty damn cool), a hatched back, some amenities, handle a northern New England winter, and kind of on the cheap. Since these new batch of subcompact SUVs seemed to fit the bill the best (the Subarus were too unrefined for my tastes and Mini Countryman & VW Sportwaggen too pricey). And of those HR-Vs, CX-3s, Jukes, Trax, etc, only one had decent power, a comprehensive proactive AWD system (compared to the reactive system of the others), and came in a Stick + AWD combo, the Renegade won out.
Tl;Dr:
Renegade sucks as a genuine off-roader, I know, but for my purposes it's solid, no?
>>693797712
Helly Jelly
>>693794706
Germanfag?
>>693797566
It is. Two will last longer than one, so I'm not complaining.
>>693794883
there is no "best car"
it depends if you want something fast and fun to drive or something cheap to run and insure or something with lots of passenger/load space or something small for around town or something good for long journeys etc etc
>>693797457
shes about to set sail
95 e38 740i
>>693798314
9/10
>>693794565
>>693797713
Good point, there's usually alot of people who buy stuff like a Renegade, Xtrail or something of the sort and then bog themselves right on a sand trail, causing everyone to stop begind them and slowly sink in the soft sand potentially bogging 4 people.
For what you need it for, and because you live stateside, I rate it 7/10, could have gone for a Rav4 though, that Toyota reliability, I could never trust a Jeep.
>>693798683
1996 import RHD manual Type RS with street port. Modestly fast, sounds great. Turns and stops like an arsehole. Also bonus smashed up Porsche pic incomming that I saw today
>>693798314
10/10
>>693798923
Aquaplaning bloke with GF. All the gear and no idea etc
>>693785495
same truck....love it....*high five... lol
>>693793893
Hahahah enjoy your overpriced piece of shit car
>>693798724
This is my first Mopar product after owning GM, Honda, and Mazda. I too worried of their reliability especially now with an Italian engine with belt-driven cams. However, the poise of the Fiat 500X chassis with its high-end-for-its-class Koni frequency-dampened shocks, its quick-revvving turbo engine, and my insistance that it be a manual (only subcompact SUV stateside to have both AWS and a manual together), its charms outweighed it potential negatives. That still said, I did — do the first time ever — but the extended warranty.
>>693799613
Damn what a best, thank god you didnt buy a Reichswagen like these faggots did
>>693796707
>>693796550
>>693793893
>>693799600
*That said, I bought — for my first time ever —the extended warranty.
My 2002
>>693792609
But... if he never had heard of Hyundai before and - since he was interested in BMW design - the fact he mentioned made him think about buying Hyundai, what he eventually did, then he used the right wording - even if not very eloquent perhaps.
I know I will get shit on...but I like it, paid my own damn money for it, and it's fun
>>693799796
See anyone driving an older car in great condition and you know they're a car person. All these fucking generic dime a dozen trucks in here though
Obviously not mine, no camera as phone took a swim in the toilet but 2001 4Runner. Looks exactly like this
>>693799796
Classic. Really nice.
>>693784695
Audi 80 B4
pic from internet but it looks the same as mine
>>693799943
Engine? Fuel consumption?
As an Eurofag I like american cars.
>>693799613
6-Speed, custom foilwork and 35mm lowering via H&R. Other stuff like hp is still stock. Im thinking bout a new intercooler tho and maybe some chiptuning in the future.
>>693799992
It takes a lot of work to keep older stuff running well, a lot more work than people who just see cars as an A to B thing anyway. Boring cars/trucks are lame.
>>693800208
Cheers!
>>693800322
Same here, I would love to drive an american car. Prices are too high for me atm tho
>>693799943
no idea why , looks the bollox
>>693800322
V-6 with 323 HP
I stuck with the 6, but got the LT2 package with every toy possible.
17 city / 28 hwy
0-60 in 5.8
I love this thing
Slightly surprised a Eurofag liking this thing. I always figured it was the other way around
>>693799796
jelly as fuck/10
anyway, this is mine. v40, 2.0T
>>693800893
Idk about others, but I always like seeing american cars like this on european roads.
>>693795923
grats, great choice
Mine
>>693800893
It's because for us american motorization is exotic as for you our european motorization.
Maybe it's lame as hell but driving this thing must feel like a badass.
Dodge Stealth
>>693801455
All I see is grass??
15 WRX 6 speed.
>>693801308
it does from time to time
The difference is, I don't act like a faglord and think that because I have a pony car, I can take on the world. I drive, have fun, and have a few (maybe like 6-7) compliments over the last year.
But I bought it for me...that's the part that matters I think
though to be honest, I am the type who admires anyone who admires their own car. I like trucks, american muscle, euro style supercars, even ricers. I like it all
>>693794107
Howdy cousin!
No diesel option here, and no fully enclsed frame rails, but its been a good rig so far. Almost at 10k miles already
this thread is full of lies
97 Hilux
>>693802767
good car, ruined with those rims. and you have lowered it? why the fuck would you do that
>>693803106
I think he's a nigger. Niggers got shitty taste. Weird that they're not gold.
>>693803106
Not lowered, had blocks in but took them out. The previous owner put the mags on and lowered it
>>693785495
If you don't recognize an Alfa when you see one, even as a North American, then you don't get to rate cars.
My car is better than yours.
>>693795923
bullshit
>>693793032
DORITOS
>>693784695
4, the fuck is that?
>>693785495
5, too simple
>>693787221
6, I'm on a roll here
Also note that I am putting a stock photo but this is exactly what my car looks like. I'll even timestamp it for you fags if u dont beliebe me
>>693801843
welcome to 4chan
>>693803971
Posh aussie cunt or tradie
>>693803971
>Hurr durr my car is better than yours
Better means what? Faster? Ok. What else? i don't think I can drive it everywhere I want. It's too low and smoke much. Go and fuck yourself dickhead.
>>693799796
Most beautiful car ever made
>>693804325
Neither. I'm a drug dealer.
>>693794827
Pretty jeep/10. I have the new jetta s.
>>693804466
>triggered.
Wow man. How's it feel to be that butt hurt?
2003 corvette 50th anniversary edition
6 speed/405hp
>>693804589
Truth hurts you, huh?
>>693804288
>not recognizing Alfa
>drives Mustang
surely amerifag
OK here u are fuckers.
>>693805016
can't say ur wrong kek
New Flyer Xcelsior XN40
>>693790242
i dont understand why hyundai drivers crave so much for recognition.
>hurr bmw designer
>durr 50 years
Wtf he started with 20 and designed till 70?
Grow up man.
If you buy a hyundai, then you buy it because it is a reliable car with a very much features for a reasonable price.
If you really like driving and cars, you dont buy a hyundai.
tldr: dont pretend to be something you aren´t.
i rate this car 7/10
>pic related my car
4.8 V8
>>693787461
My Silverado has the 5.3 with 4wd. It's got an LSD as well or at least I think it does because it does light both tires up on pavement.
>>693805387
Not bad, 8/10. What did the price tag look like on that one?
>>693805465
original 105.000€
i paid 21k€
built 2008 100000km
>>693787461
Isnt that renegade built on the Fiat 500L platform? How does it handle off-road?
1986 FC3S RX-7
I'm swapping a 13b turbo rotary into it, but I can't decide if I want to build it for drifting or if I want to go full blown race car
>>693793132
naw he's not the only one. That's how I read it as well
"USed to drve BMW's but their designer moved to Hyundai so now I bought one"
I know that's probably not what he meant but that's how I read it as well.
>>693804680
It might be a 03 vette..but that isn't a 50th aniversary edition. They were all burgundy colored regular vettes in coupes and convertiable.not zr1s
>>693805387
interesting. If that is indeed your X5, i must ask you why you chose one of those instead of say, a loaded 5-series
anyway, E39 M5 here
>>693793893
Not sure why faggots are trying to bitch at you. That's a fantastic little hot hatch.
Driving a '11 Focus ST myself and drooling over the new Focus RS
230bhp hot hatch
>>693793974
hoe betaalt je 180 euro voor zo'n kut bakkie?
>>693805530
Not bad at all. Love BMWs, beautiful on the inside and out. Sharp looking car you've got there.
>>693794522
Yeah in essence.
>>693794883
What country? and what are you looking for in a car? Big/SMall? Fast/Slow? Petrol/Diesel?
Give us something to go on.
>>693805772
7/10 Not a bad car.
>>693805085
So any of u fuckers gonna rate? lol
>>693805772
i also find the e39 the most beautiful bmw in recent history but nevertheless i wanted a modern looking car.
355 bhp is enough for me.
>>693795923
Tineye doesn't bring anything up.
But I find it hard to believe someone on /b/ drives that car. That's a beautiful and expensive fucking car.
>>693794802
Looking at the thumbnail I literally couldn't tell if it was a Rover or a brand new Ford explorer. Fuck me.
>>693796314
>>693796437
Oh, by the way
>>693806269
Previa van with a stick? That's rare in the u.s.
>>693787461
We do get alfas stateside bro, they're just not very common and they try to sell primarily the high end models like the 4c and 8c.
>>693796314
8/10, ugly as shit but gotta appreciate the almost 300k miles, looks comfy and reliable
>>693805772
Love thoses, It's one of the rare car that cannot be out of fashion.
>my leisure car, to work I have a nice black A3, not sure I got a picture on my laptop
>>693806130
mustang / 10 bruh
>>693797712
I don't think owning a c7 makes you a d-bag. That's the c-5 or the c-6
One of two of them.
>>693793893
Nice
My beautiful charger
>>693790736
It seemed more like the fact that the bmw designer made that new Hyundai helped him make the decision to buy that car. Not he was up in the air between it and a bmw, but he was considering it and cars like it, and the design helped him make his decision.
>>693805682
6/10 but only because of reliability.
2001 Mitsubishi eclipes spyder
>>693806695
Two of two.
>>693805772
Because faggots think this 20 year old piece of shit is better than a new kia with 7 year warranty
Not my car in the picture, but same make and model
Laugh all you want, but I only paid 380 bucks
My daily driver a 2011 535d, I really like this car, Even after 150k km it still has Power and its very reliable. Need To get new rims tho, don't like them anymore
>>693806804
not a bad car just not a huge fan because thats what cops use in my area lol
Shes beautiful and you cant deny it
>rate
>>693807063
dont be butthurt, please.
Hyundai is a good car.
BMWs are good cars.
But both are not for all purposes.
>>693805085
Dad's car/10
>>693807198
Rims are gay/10. Paint looks nice though.
>>693806130
It's only a mustang, and not even the badass old school ones. You're nothing special kid, except your education.
>>693807063
>>693803106
>lowered
To match the doge obv.
>>693807271
this guy is completely right. if you really dont give a fuck, the kia is great. low consumption, safe, reliable, and with a warranty.
but as soon as we bring, lets say, driving joy and any form of acceleration numbers or so the old M5 gets ahead
>>693806130
Dude its a nice car, dont expect much from these guys
no euros in here gonna rate my astra?
>>693807182
No americans gonna rate my croissant cheese colored rocket ?
>>693785495
I bet you have a stash of rifles too and bitch how the evil Nazi government is gonna take them away to put you in a FEMA camp. And you have a small penis.
Also not knowing what an Alfa Romero is...fucking rednecks.
There are probably some "car nuts" on the back of that shitty pick up too.
>>693805715
>USed to drve BMW's
where did you get that bit from?
>>693808164
Alfa "ROMERO" TOP KEK !!!!
im too lazy to go out and take a pic but this one it is (also color). believe it or not.
>>693807949
This one?
>>>693805835
k. 230bhp is impressive but it's still Opel. I see many of Astras on my roads so next Astra, even with sport package, doesn't make me surprised.
>>693785495
>hurr durr
>need V8 10L engine to generate enough torque to pull my 300 kg sister to Burger King
>can't afford a Diesel half that size that generates the same amount of torque with 20% less fuel consumption
my pride and joy <3
>>693786878
>Arent Skodas complete shit?
It's a VW in a cheaper outfit.
>>693806804
Id have to admit id suck your dick if you gave me it for a spin. Eu fag here having wet dreams about owning a charger. But its really nice paying more than 5 bucks for a gallon
>>693805089
Screenshot?
>>693808164
i always get a kick out of how butthurt some people get when trucks are posted in car threads here
pic related, my truck.
1996 f250xl with a 5.8l v8
>>693795295
The Jeep Renegade is a Fiat under the hood.
>>693808634
But still better than VW.
>>693808599
Took me a while to figure out that you in fact do not have a giant crack in your front window.
Also
Alfa Romeo Mito
Toyota Tacoma.
>>693808885
put some nice rims on that bitch
>>693809192
nice trucks but a plastic bed liner? ewwww
>>693808164
>Romero
>>693806513
nice avalon cunt
pic related my avalon :(
sorry for shit photo but i'm rarely inspired to take pics of an avalon
>>693809217
nah i like the ones that are on it. if i planned to replace them i would have bought one with the ugly cheap steel wheels
don't care for the tires though. too much room in the wheel wells. just waiting for them to wear out sufficiently so i can replace them
>>693805682
Anyone else gonna rate?
>>693809459
nice handbrake
>>693808885
>butthurt
You are pissing away rescources for something that isn't even fast. Why would such a think need an 6L V8? Put a 2L Turbo Diesel with 180 PS in it an it's do just as well.
But I know you 'murricunts are too poor for something that "precious" like Diesel.
>>693800188
i want one of those to turn into an adventure rig
>>693809150
Hahaha I didn't even notice that illusion.
It's a pretty old picture though, from the day that I bought her, I painted the lowers lowered her on Eibach springs, but she remains mostly stock (1.8T 150HP)
>>693793893
>>693808459
Yeah, it shocks a lot of cars tbh, 2.0 turbo popping and banging away, and only 500 of them made. I know its not a ferrari but its really good for what it is
>>693808675
Sorry too lazy to take a pic. Nut mines the same color and everything. If someone shows genuineinterest I'll take one
this, but with 5 doors instead of 3
>>693809699
Aight looks good m8
>>693807094
9/10 Would be sick with black rims
'06 Fiesta ST, Mountune stage 2
>>693809917
But it's good that you like your car. Everyone should like his own car. That's the most important point.
>>693809963
I like it. How much fuel does it need per 100? Diesel or gasoline? Automatic transmission I assume. Torque converter or CVT?
>>693784695
2009 gen 1 mazdaspeed 3 2.3L turbo stage 2 errythang
>>693810116
>chav detected
>>693809526
>isn't even fast
who gives a fuck about going fast?
i own a truck because i like to go camping and fishing and i can't pull a boat or a camper behind a fucking audi
i also don't like having to borrow someone elses shit or go rent a truck or something if i want to move a couch or a refrigerator or whatever else
as for doing "just as well" with some little shitty turbocharged stinky ass diesel engine - dodge tried it, heres how it stacked up against good ole 'murcian gas power (spoiler alert it lost to a fucking Ford v6 gas engine rofl)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n2uEx8CojE
>>693809963
10/10
My 3rd gen.
>>693810518
My other mountain toy.
>>693784695
really wish these where in the US could make a cool track car.
>>693785495
shit teir chevy truck fuck off redneck
>>693810157
Puts a smile on my face every single time i drive it
>>693801455
kutani red pearl with a 96 wing and you puerto rican'd it with an aftermarket sunroof....what a shame