>>693458639
How often do armed citizens stop mass shootings?

>>693458759
There is no frequency, most mass shootings happen in "gun free" zones

>>693458639
>country with strict gun laws have the lowest rates of gun deaths
>demonstrated by statistics
>the ONE country that has free access to guns has the highest rate of gun deaths/violence of any western industrial nation
>demonstrated by statistics

How can you ignore this? I'm genuinely curious.

>>693459068
France and other countries in the EU have very strict gun laws.

130 people dead, defenseless

"Armed citizens stop mass shootings"

They also start them, at a higher frequency. Whoops!

>>693459068
How may times have you heard about a mass shooting in Switzerland, a country with little gun restrictions

>>693459244
Yep. Doesn't stop it all.
Note that I didn't say "no gun deaths", but "lowest rates".

As I've said, it's been demonstrated that lots of guns = lots of gun deaths and violence.
If you can show a place that has higher rates of death than the USA with strict gun laws, I'll listen to you.

Also:
>defenceless
>America has second amendment
>still has highest rate of deaths and shootings
>muh self defence

>>693459367
Tell me what would have happened if there had been other armed individuals within the pulse nightclub, that weren't radicalized

>>693459413
Yeah, except in Switzerland they all do mandatory military service which teaches safety, and it's illegal to keep ammunition in private residences.
So what was your point?

>>693459571
Nobody can tell you that. Chances are more people would have gotten caught in the crossfire though. It's what happens with rapid-fire weapons.
>using hypotheticals in an argument
>ignoring facts and evidence

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>>693459068
take the niggers and spics out of the equation and the U.S. would be one of the safest countries on the planet.

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Clearly we've got some dummy's

>>693459571
What would have happened?

Amid the chaos, the only report that police have is "shooters at the nightclub".

They show up, mistake any armed "patriot" for one of the original shooters, open fire.

lulz ensue because THIS ISN'T THE FUCKING MOVIES.

>>693458967
>evading the question
We live in the most heavily armed western country, where open and concealed carry is legal in nearly every state. Why can't you answer the question? Do you not like the answer?

>>693459804
Fact: pulse nightclub was a gun free zone

Sandy hook elementary was a gun free zone

US only has abou 10,000 gun restrictions in place.

Didn't stop the shootings

>>693459571

Probably people shooting random people because there's little visibility and panic.

Or maybe someone's gun goes off during the concert and kills someone randomly and people get trampled.

Or someone gets drunk and takes out their gun and kills someone they're arguing with, and people get trampled or a shooting breaks out.

Really, the idea that they'd all turn around and identify the shooter and it would have been a different scenario entirely is a fantasy. People are fucking stupid.

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>>693459571
Calling someone to show up with a firearm to stop a threat you could stop with your own firearm is retarded. I'm not waiting for the cops to save me or my family, I'll do it my self.

>>693458639
>The House and Senate Democrats are literally the most immature group of people I've ever seen.
The right is no better dude.

It's like the gop is saying you can't have abortions and fag marriage; so the left retaliates with a oh yeah, well we're going to take your guns!

The whole thing is immature and ridiculous. It's like both sides have grabbed ahold of the constitution and are literally tearing it in two.

>>693459943
Cant take weapons into a bar legally. Or have them while under the influence.

>>693459822
Well, maybe.
I have no evidence for or against that though.

>>693460039
>gun free zone
>is surprised that a person willing to gun down a crowd would disobey the law
>is making the argument that because people will disobey it, a law shouldn't exist
Wot?

>Gun restrictions didn't stop the shootings
Restrictions mean nothing when it's considered a right to own a gun.
The problem is that people who kill others can easily get guns, because it is a right.

Being able to easily get guns enables killers to kill lots of people.

I want a direct answer - do you see the connection between the ease of getting a gun, owning a gun, and the potential to kill people with it?

>>693460039
Fact: advocating bringing a fire arm into a place where alcohol is served I pants on head retardation.
Fact: there was an armed off duty officer there, guess what shit for brains, he got shot.
Fact: there was an armed officer at Sandyhook as well, guess what fuckwit, he got shot.
So shut the fuck up

>>693460201
The original hypothetical was
>Tell me what would have happened if there had been other armed individuals within the pulse nightclub, that weren't radicalized

I simply extended the hypothesis to its logical conclusion. Because every one of these ammosexual fucknuts thinks they're a goddamn action movie hero. With the possible caveat that they've never won a fistfight their entire lives.

OP starts troll thread about gun control

OP immediately loses argument

OP resorts to posting dumb memes that suggest guns should be allowed in elementary schools and bars

OP is a dumb fuck

>>693460586
/thread

>>693459943
Also stuff like this is covered in ccw classes which are mandatory for a carry permit. A carrier is not a hero and rypically shouldnt inject themselves into a situation. But should use lethal for in imminent fear of death scenario.

That said if you are in an active shooter and you pull. Expect to be shot. Should call 911 first guve your description. Likely wont make a difference. Its a choice. Cops react to seeing a gun.

>>693460437
Gun restrictions didn't stop Paris or brevik either, so point discarded.

If somebody is inherently evil, "gun restrictions" will not stop them.

Tell me again about the guns used on 9/11

>>693460539
No you are generalizing. You cant legally carry in a bar or under the influence. I do carry btw and have my ccw. I go to the range regulary. Follow the law to a t. Imminent fear of death, stand my ground, castle doctrine.

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Americans : how do we stop people killing other people with Guns? More Guns.

>>693460853
>gun restrictions will not solve all the problems that ever existed
>will just stop lots of people from getting shot
HURR GUYS IT'S NOT WORTH IT.

Switzerlands mandatory gun ownership pays off well, freest nation in the world

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>>693461030

We should instead berate the gunman and make them feel bad for killing other people, sounds like EU.

>>693460709
Yeah, except laws won't stop ALL crimes, because a crime is by definition, ignoring or disregarding the law.
The law empowers the state to prevent or punish the behaviour, or the things that allow it. Like, I don't know, free access to weapons designed to kill large amounts of people efficiently.

>b-but it happens everywhere r-right guys?
Not nearly as much as the US, buddy.

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>>693460111
>fort hood
>military base
>gun free zone

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>>693461030
You're right. We should make owning guns completely illegal.

Then the criminals would have to stop!

>>693461066
>Also has mandatory military training, resulting is responsible and safe use
>not allowed to keep ammunition in private residence
Their gun laws/access are in no way comparable to any point you're making. Stop trying to make it.

>>693461256
How about the fucking ideology he supported? Or maybe the fact that a gun dealer did report him. Or the fact that the fbi was investigating him. Or the fact that his x-cunt- wife comes out after the fact and saidcshe left him in very short order because he was abusive. Cant buy a gun lehally with domesyic on your record.

>>693461594
Follow up. She never reported him for abuse. Was my point, sorry.

>>693461389
>has never been on a military base
only MPs are allowed to walk around with weapons on base. Not even allowed to keep guns in a home.

The leftists point has already been discarded, ban gun ownership for people on welfare

>>693458639
why are they called DEMOCRATS if they're going against what people seem to want?

>>693462376
I feel like OP just gives up when he's proven wrong, and starts again with a non-sequitur hoping that it'll work this time.

>captcha: grass
Ironic, cause sage goes in all fields.

>>693462600
>95% approval for banning assault weapons
HOW UNDEMOCRATIC RIGHT GUYS?

>>693458759
Just because you can measure the one and not the other doesn't invalidate the one you can't measure. That's the basic failure in this reasoning, and no just with this subject.

>>693462600
Most people actually want some basic gun control reforms. Nice evidence fail, retard.

>>693458639
>meme

>>693462926
Going after every gun owner in America, mass gun grab isn't "basic gun control" it's nationwide disarmament

>>693463165
>must protect muhself from big guv'ment incase the want muh freedom
>actually believes the state is evil
>actually thinks their personal firearms could stand up to tanks, drones and all other materials of war
The right really is retarded, I swear.A weird mix of paranoia and delusions of grandeur.

>>693462926
Most people? Glad you can speak for millions... this is why we need guns what's next start banning water because we can drown

>>693458639
They're reactionaries, they're only purpose is to react to others. So what do you expect. They act like a pubescent child who's reacting to its repressive parents.

>>693462884
His question was loaded to begin with because mass shootings are rare. How often do they stop violent crime was the correct question if that person wanted to be fair. Im sure there's statistics on that. I know this cops are 5 minutes away. Ive also had a 911 op tell me gun shots 25 ft away were fireworks on a 911 call that i made! This was the 90's. Guy had an sks. Put me in imminwnt fear of death. All i have to do now is rely on myself. Of course i genuinely hope i never have to. And would never inject myself into a situation. Maybe people who carry just want a better chance at living. If shit goes south. 3-4 seconds all i need. Imminent fear of death is the keyword.

>>693463411
Mean while " were going to take weapons from law abiding citizens and put up laws against arms because we all know criminals diligently follow laws and nothing else can be used in terror attacks like a car, a bomb, a blade, poison, fire because guns are deadly" Lol this logic needs to be scorched off the earth

>>693460000
they do faggot. try looking for yourself. there was one just the other weekend.
as the left likes to say "if it saves one life".

Typical and pointless circle jerk.

One side arguing for the right and means for law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Other side citing muh statistics of countries with stricter gun laws and lower gun related deaths.

Neither positions get to the root of the problem. Cultural/religious differences, class stratification/economic malaise and disputes over foreign polices/intervention (and to a lesser extent, mental illness) cause violence.

Consider that countries with lesser of the problems cited above have less violence.
Consider that countries with more of those problems have a whole lot more violence and deaths than even the US.
Consider that violence, homicide, gun-related deaths have been on the decline in the US steadily over the last 25 years.
Consider that violence and deaths have been on the rise in many European countries in recent years.

The debate is not about guns or gun control. It is so hard to face the real root problems, people don't even know where to begin. It is much harder to try to effect a nations foreign, economic policies and corruption than it is to impose new controls and restrictions over the useful idiots, the plebs.

>>693460058
no just you kid.

>>693459569
>implying the victims partake in the 2nd ammendment
Just because we have it, doesnt mean you have to use it.

>>693460198
this guy gets it. helps to keep each other fighting while they steal us blind.

>>693464116
"Saves one life" remember the left supports abortion as a "woman's right to chose" how many lives ended per abortion?

>>693460413
sure kid. stale lefty argument.
the system failed in Orlando.
"I know lets pass more laws"
you don't have the right to ask for a direct answer kid.

>>693464116
Humanistic bullshit about saving lives. There are lives you don't want to save and need to be destroyed.

>>693460437
names of these people please.
or shut the fuck up.

>>693458759
Here's a secret, law enforcement are civilians.

>>693460539
nice projection leftard.

>>693464640
Hey, this is senator Chuck Schumer, you've upset me and I'm gonna kill myself

>>693460586
sure kid, how's summer school?

>>693459068
>>current year
>>having freedom laws still

>>693460704
smells like newfag.

>>693461036
HURR GUYS I'M A RETARD.

So the shooter is either mentally insane or radical jihadi.

What do we do

Blame the weapon of course!

>>693462651
that's not what sage means summerfag.

>>693462873
here's a moron that will believe anything.

>>693464380
Crap argument. Stick to the topic at hand and using abortion. Dont forget how many lives were taken during the crusade. People fucking died for no reason. Actual living, breathing, self sustaining people.

Guns aren't the problem in Brazil.
Bombs aren't the problem in Turkey, India, Saudi Arabia or other Middle Eastern countries.

You don't hear these countries debating over whether or not citizens should be able to arm themselves.

Violence does not stem from peoples ability to obtain tools that do harm.

>>693462873
but guns sales are at an all time high.
go figure.

>>693459068
But some of the highest crime rates

Think before you post, anon

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>>693465524
...

>>693462926
sure kid. that's why there are record gun sales right now.
also source?

>>693458639
They don't want to ban assault rifles you imbecile they won't to create better background checks so mental health patients can't get them stupid

>>693459413

umm... yeah, fail.

A huge percentage owns firearms. But they don't own bullets. Also, because you need a permit and some training, take a look at the stats on how many accidental deaths occur with the Swiss.

Nice try though, thanks for playing.

>>693463411
you sound more deluded than any gun owner I have ever met.

>>693465762
If you actually watch CSPAN (live coverage of house and senate activity) instead of The View or the Clinton News Network, yes they do

>>693464938
guess this retard answer is all you got kid.

>>693459860
>Clearly we've got some dummy's

Good grief. It's spelled correctly right in the meme you posted. Pot. Kettle. Black.

>>693465956
you don't need assault rifles with 30 rounds clips not for home defense or anything no one has ever robbed a home with an AR get a shotgun I'm all for assault rifle bans pistols are better anyways

>>693466313
But the govt needs enough weapons to destroy the planet

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/03/10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter/#10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter-10

Facts:

Elizabeth Warren is mental

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>>693466313
Hmm, I dunno... with 20-30 Somalis threatening a peaceful and upper-class community in Minnesota. I'd say a 30 clip mag sounds ok.

>>693459571
The same result because there was a armed bouncer and he was overwhelmed. http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/the-final-moments-of-the-orlando-gay-club-massacre/

>>693466703
Here's the real solution to stopping a mass shooting you don't need a fucking gun shooters target large crowded areas if you're in an area like this and someone starts shooting you bum rush the guy and he will become overwhelmed

>>693466611
Alert authorities and they will have them arrested since making threats is illegal just because you're a pussy and guns make you feel safe doesn't mean you should have them guns are republicans form of "safespaces" you sorry excuse for a man

>>693466313
>is for assault weapons bans
>isn't for hand gun bans
>hand guns are the ones used in the majority of gun released violence and assault rifles are the minority

But yeah let's ban something acting on emotion because they're scary!

>>693467029
Somebody was denied service for food stamps

>>693462873
>>693462926
nah, im not even in the US. was under impression that you guys do want to keep your guns, though.
any poll results or something?

>>693467029
>since making threats is illegal
You have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that they intended to follow through with their threats for it to be illegal

>>693467029
Authorities were alerted and didn't arrive until 2 hours later. The authorities were also made aware of these migrant outbursts on other occasions.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/muslim-refugees-threaten-minnesota-community-with-rape/#!

I know, MSNBC didn't report this so you are blind to it.

>>693458639
First of all the republicans that control the senate won't pass any bills because for the sole reason that Obama is president. Isn't that immature?. And you're weak af if you think an AR is what gives you power. The republicans won't even pass a bill that'll stop people on the terrorist list to purchase guns.. Fuck your country. A bunch of retards. Trump is considered a possible president is proof enough the US is turning into a shit hole.

>>693467099
most guns used by criminals are illegally obtained

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>>693467469
AR's don't give power. They give PTSD.

I'm curious. The actual bill the democrats tried to pass was to stop people on the no fly list from buying guns.

If you're too dangerous to go on a plane, why do you think that makes them safe enough to get a gun?

>>693467655
anything that gives you stress can cause PTSD but most people who say they have PTSD are just being a hypochondriac

>>693467521
every gun started out as a legal sale. every. one.

>>693467099
You give a good point I'm not for banning assault rifles or any gun actually but 30 round clips should be banned

>>693467521
>orlando was bought legally
>san Bernardino also bought legally one state over

Many others bought legally

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>>693467915
no no, seriously, I heard this little angle got the cancer from an AR. Her father is a monster!

>>693468082
I was talking about most handguns because the majority of killings are made with handguns stolen by criminals used in gang activity

>>693468176
Why on earth would you go through the effort of getting a handgun illegally when they are some of the easiest to get? Boy, you need a citation on your source.

>>693467890
Ah, only watched the CNN headline, eh?
The problem with this approach is how easy it is for people to get put on the no-fly list by the department of Homeland Security.

Getting off the list is tremendously arduous and even costly (legal fees).

It was deemed an unconstitutional approach, even by many dems.

>>693462873
>95% approval for banning SCARY weapons

Go die.

Because the no fly list is rife with errors. There are no standards except someone's suspicion to be included on the list. There is no notification that you're on the list and no procedure for challenging inclusion on the list (i.e. no due process). Because of the lack of any standards for inclusion, if you fly for business and one of your competitors decides to eliminate you by starting a rumor that you have terrorist links, you might get included. In fact, you the poster I'm replying to may be on the list and not know it unless you've tried to fly today.

>>693468345
Because most gang members are felons and can't buy a gun ,guns purchased are easily tracked and if they buy it and use it the police can't prove its there's unless they use finger printing or some other way

>>693458759
They usually don't wind up being mass shootings when an armed citizen stops it.

>>693468345
Your ignorance is no-one's responsibility but your own. Such a flubby logical falacy to put the burden of proof on others. Work the Google, fucktard.

>>693464225
Still didn't give him a country with higher gun violence than the US.

>>693468687
But it's much easier to stop a mass shooting by just grabbing the guy honestly if 5 guys ran at the shooter he would panic start shooting need to reload probably just drop his gun but he would probably be tackled you don't need a gun to be a hero

>>693464205
Oh that's a real nice rebuttal.
Get to class, you middle schooler.

>>693468724
Brazil.
Somalia.
Iraq.
Turkey.
Russia.

>>693459804
>rapid fire

You mean semi auto? Cuz that's what we're talking about. Go home De Leon. You're drunk and about to make a fool of yourself.

>>693464962
There he goes again, calling everyone that disagrees with him a child.

But really why do we need 30 round magizines?

>>693468872
AMEN!!!!