i think its more about how stupid Trump is for a nomination.

>>690013373
Still don't care, voting for Lord Trump.

>>690013373
don't care, still voting for Johnson.

>>690013373
Don't care, still voting Sanders. I'll write him in if I have to.

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>>690013592
Ya totally... not because Trump threatens the status quo, the thing the keeps the Koch brothers rich.

>>690013373
They must have admired how Hillary bought out most of the super delegates before the race even started. Probably reminds them of how influence in Washington is bought. The only two who could change this are Trump and Sanders. While they are ideological polar opposites, they each represented a change in the norm. Sanders out? Trump it is.

This election is more about breaking the political class than pushing them left or right.

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>>690013373
so ya that happened.... fuck this election

Look anons, I don't like the Koch brothers, and I hate all the money that goes into politics and i hate that we have a tiny group of people that have the majority of wealth. I hate all that shit.
But I also have to consider that my life isn't so bad either. I don't want a revolution to fuck shit up because most likely neither I nor you are come out of it better off than we already are.
Rich people are getting richer and buying a bunch of shit, well fuck it who cares. I'm just happy I don't have to worry about a political revolution like 3rd world countries, or huge swings in political parties like some places in Europe.
There's alot of shit we need to change here, but you have to consider the full picture and realize that for all the fucked up shit going on in the world, we have it pretty stable in the US. So yeah I'm voting for HIllary because shit has been somewhat stable for me the past 8 years.

>>690016345
You won't be saying that when you are starving, and by that time it's too late.

It's not even about you, it's that a country as wealthy as the USA was, is going to become a third world shit hole

>>690016791
Well, looks like you've figured it out. Please explain to this ignorant anon how its all going to go down.

I live in a small town filled with middle-aged professionals. About every household has at least one spouse that holds a university degree of some sort.

Although I'm in the South, most people in this town aren't native to here. They come from areas of the country that are very liberal.

EVERYONE supports Trump here when the media claims only uneducated fools do.

Trump will win.

The media tries to paint a picture that only exists in their heads; I live around that picture every day.

>>690017255
>Trump will win because a few educated people in small town in the south are all voting for him.

>>690017032
At this point there is not much anyone can do, considering millennials are useless shits who's skills and experience demand the living standards of Haiti.

Electing Trump wont do anything dramatic, but it will blow the current establishment to hell

But no matter what we cant allow this thing to win https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqYJRc0TJkQ

>>690017620

These people represent areas Hillary seems to doninate.

>>690017926
I've never seen so many men afraid of one woman.
The same people doomsday prognosticating about Obama are the same who are saying the same shit about Hillary.

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>>690018414
>thinking Obama was a good president
>thinking hillary isn't bought and payed for

>>690017255
>That hick mentality

>>690019430
Check your strawman fag

>>690013373
Of course, this country's political system has been trending extreme right for decades. Democratic party is now a center-right party that tells unions to fuck off and seeks campaign funding from the same sources as the Republicans.

Also,

>liberal
>left

more like faux-left, lol

>>690019430
>one upper tooth

Must be time for her to go after that Southern vote.

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>>690019649

>>690020088
Who the fuck cares?
Go fucking run a 5k if you care so much about all the victims of alleged rape by Bill Clinton decades ago. lulz
All I care about is how stable the country is for the next 4 years.

>>690020482
>All I care about is how stable the country is for the next 4 years.

I just wish someone actually cared about the existence of our country in 40 years. Or the survival of our civilization and species in 400 years.

>>690013373
yeah even corrupt assholes know how horrible trump is and how much of a fuckin pandering con artist he is.

>>690017255
you're so full of shit it isn't funny. how the fuck do you know what "everyone" supports you faggot. you're redneck white trash circies, maybe, maybe do but that's all you can say

Hillary is a shill, so is Trump. Your country is fucked either way. Sanders on the Hillary ticket might mitigate the damage but your country is fucked.

>>690021327
More like the Kochs are worried they can't control Trump because he has his own money and doesn't need theirs. Shillary, on the other hand, is more than happy to sell her policies to special interests. This really isn't surprising.

>>690017926
we've had three presidents in a row that people would "like to have a beer with" can we just have an old fashion lying politician who will lie to our faces and be a robot in public now? Hillary Clinton is that lying politician.

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Fucking hate liberals.
Swallow the same very food they pretended to be against.
>bu but Trump is a mean jerk though durrrr
Fuck the democrats hard.

>>690021142
thanks to religion we never have to think that far ahead.

>>690016345
Same anon here. Look fags, the only way shits gonna change is by voting for congress on a local level. And by that I don't mean voting for dumbass ted cruz or some other fuck tard tea party cock sucker that is a completely useless tool.
And fucking learn to compromise god damn. And be ok with you elected officials compromising to get you some of the shit you want. We suck right now because congress sucks. I blame it on fag ass republicans who are afraid of hick town conservative voters not voting for them anymore. Hick town concervative voters who are poor as fuck and don't vote for their own financial interests because they'd rather vote on stupid shit like abortion, 10 commandments at the court house, and whether fags should go into the girls restroom.
Meanwhile the education system around them is collapsing. Have you ever seen the kind of inbred shit that public school produce in rural areas in the south? It's not funny anon.

>>690019430
Actually, Obama was a relatively good president. Granted it's too early for anything definitive. I would say Obama may or may not be in the top 10 presidents (definitely not top 10%, that's one hell of a mark), but he's almost certainly in the top half. In contrast, Bush (W) is almost certainly in the lower half (though probably not bottom 10).

>>690019925
Economically, yeah, but there's been a huge social left push. Not even good stuff like freedom related things (ending the war on drugs, ending laws that are based on 'morality,' etc.) but social issues as in the genderqueer bullshit. The entire social justice movement is relatively new.

>>690021327
Not as much of a con artist as Sanders was, plus unlike Sanders, he's actually successful.

>>690022083
Trump might do his own thing, but does he have the skills to make a difference to the country? The whole system is built around special interests, and Trump is talking about building a wall while bankers crash the economy

>>690023155
>there's been a huge social left push

No, that's just the distraction. It keeps the masses stirred up and fighting each other while they rob the bank. Anyone who focuses on that is just falling for the narrative.

There are "SJWs" coming out of our ridiculous universities, but they're not nearly as influential as the media makes them out to be - the media pushes that perception to keep us fighting each other, as I explained above. Anyone actually on the left (i.e., not upper-middle-class bourgeois liberal) hates them and the focus on identity politics. The real left would say that there's no war but class war.

>>690022699

you should send that into the shillary campaign. They might make it their new slogan

>>690023155
> anon your fucking retarded

>>690023551
>but does he have the skills to make a difference to the country?

It isn't skills. The president does very little in terms of policy, he's a figurehead. If Trump is elected, it will be very much like when Obama was elected and his enemies were almost disappointed that the world never ended and that little changed.

> while bankers crash the economy

I just lot all respect for you. That is not at all how the economy works. Populists like to blame the rich for economic downturns (despite that they are cyclical) and the financially illiterate followers lap it up and repeat it (of course without questioning it).

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>>690024168
Hillary is already beginning to change her tone on this issue because of the recent polls showing the majority of Americans are for a Muslim ban. I hate people like her

>>690024442
Cyclical slumps are normal, $100billion bailouts after calamitous crashes are normal too? Are you fucking retarded? Obvious yes if you're voting Rump.

>>690024442
>I just lot all respect for you. That is not at all how the economy works. Populists like to blame the rich for economic downturns (despite that they are cyclical) and the financially illiterate followers lap it up and repeat it (of course without questioning it).

Good to see a level headed anon here. It's in no ones interest to crash the economy. In fact, you could say that with the fed, bankers and the gov are doing more than they should to keep the economy stable. Our financial and political stability are the reason investments keep pouring into the US amidst a world full of chaos.
These anon's wet dreams for revolution ala trump or bernie are just delusions of fantasy. These anons obviously don't work or have responsibilities and if they do they have no fucking idea how the economy works.

>>690023919
It is a distraction, I'm not disputing this. That said, the Sanders economics ("Wall Street is hurting you" type statements) was also a distraction. He makes largely untrue and very vague statements that people eat up and regurgitate without giving it a second thought. There's a reason why so few experts actually agree with him. The real issues are campaign finance reform, environment (predominately water/air pollution - especially climate change), criminalization of vices (and therefore the prison-industrial complex + the militarization of police (where racist police are a distraction - the real problem is police are violent in general and kill shitloads of white people too (who you won't hear about) with largely unwarranted no-knock raids)), foreign policy/wars (and therefore the military- industrial complex), and privacy/surveillance.

>>690025120
Too true, an absolute cunt

>>690013373
WHO FUCKING CARES. NONE OF THIS IS REAL.

>>690013373
He seems like such a nice man. Almost a Mr. Rogers figure. None of this is real.

>>690013935
>actually thinking Trump would make things worse for billionaires

Wake up

>>690024075
> your
Shiggy.

>>690025199
100% wrong/misleading. The bailouts were a form of practicality because Wall Street was fed toxic assets that it didn't know about that then blew up. Additionally, the bailouts were loans that have since been paid back (per 2014). You've been listening to Sanders too much, he frankly just doesn't understand the financial services industry. Wall Street was not responsible for the crash because they didn't give out the subprime loans, or package them into MBSs (Fannie + Freddy). Hell, they didn't even know the assets were bad (otherwise they wouldn't have bought/held them). Also, I'm voting for Gary Johnson.

>>690023155
>Actually, Obama was a relatively good president.

He's been absolutely mediocre. If I were to choose a metaphor for his presidency, it would be a piece of driftwood bobbing almost-imperceptibly on the surface of a river, moving slowly with the current towards a waterfall in the distance. If there is a major social upheaval in the next decade, he'll be remembered as the modern James Buchanan.

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>>690025638

>Shillary claims she will stand up to the evil Koch brothers
>Meanwhile she is bankrolled now by the koch brothers

Yea, this is the person we are looking for to change the establishment

>>690025237
crashing the economy is of no consequence ce to them, they control the financial regulators and have easy access to bailouts. It's a closed system which makes plenty of money inside the system, while the majority pick up the tab.

>>690025968
There is a mountain of evidence that most big Wall Street brokerages, banks and businesses knew about the toxicity of the assets. Many of them bragged about the money they were printing. Super denial.

>>690025327
>That said, the Sanders economics ("Wall Street is hurting you" type statements) was also a distraction.

No, that's the truth, but social democratic wiffle-waffle always completely dilutes that message. The economic ruling class is indisputably the source of the corruption and counterproductive economic policy.

>The real issues are campaign finance reform

You'll never, ever, ever solve this problem under our current political-economic system. Remember that we already live in "fixed" capitalism - it was supposed to be fixed by the New Deal. If you give a small group dominant social power, you'll never be able to prevent them from using it.

>list of actual problems

Yes, those are all real problems. You've correctly identified all of the symptoms of the underlying disease. But you can't cure that disease by spending all of your effort to simply ease the symptoms. It requires a moral and intellectual bravery to recognize that the world we are used to - the world we were born into and grew up in - is failing. It takes courage to realize we must take the personal risk and transform society into something new.
But half-measures will always fail - that is the story of the 20th century.

>>690025985
In all fairness its too early to tell. He did pass obamacare which despite all its problems is still a pretty monumental shift in the health care service of the US. And now you hear repeal and replacing it, not just repeal it and fuck everyone else. Over time he could be remembered for that.

Also the Iran deal which was pretty monumental as no other president before him has been able to accomplish. Time will tell if its successful, but if it is, he will have accomplished something pretty great towards nuclear proliferation and just one step in the middle east peace process.

Remember, it's just 8 years and the political system is built to be slow and stable.

>>690013373
>Hillary
>Liberal
You say that word. It does not mean what you think it means.

>>690026854
>He did pass obamacare which despite all its problems is still a pretty monumental shift in the health care service of the US.

It's a plan that relies on and increases the profits of private health insurance companies. Those fuckers are at the heart of the problem in the first place. Obamacare is pretending to do reform the fast and easy way, then using the resulting decrease in the number of uninsured to shut down any criticism. But that's not the whole story - if the stock price of private health insurance companies goes up after you pass your reforms, you're doing it wrong.

>Also the Iran deal which was pretty monumental as no other president before him has been able to accomplish.

Ok, that I would definitely agree with. IF it leads to results, and I don't see that happening so far. It looks more like an attempt to create a feather for a cap then forget about the whole thing when the deal deadlocks in Washington.

>Remember, it's just 8 years and the political system is built to be slow and stable.

Inertia might not be a good thing if our present course is towards inverted totalitarianism.

>>690025985
He has been relatively mediocre, that's why I say top half. US presidents are rarely great (Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson) and often pretty bad, with many being terrible (Buchanan, Hoover (unfairly, he wasn't responsible for the great depression even though it's put on him), Harding, Pierce). I would say that a mediocre president (on a whole) with a couple of good things puts you in the top half. I think it is absolutely unfair to blame/congratulate the president for what the economy does, because the president does close to nothing with the economy. That said, the economy has done well since Feb, 2009, so Obama will be given credit for the economy improving.

He won't be remembered like Buchanan. He won't be remembered as Lincoln, either, but definitely not as bad as Buchanan.

>>690026216
Wall Street CEOs/other executives are paid primarily in company stock (for all of their bonuses). If the economy crashes, their stock is worth less money, meaning they make less money. Additionally, if you work at Lehman Bros, the company went under, meaning that all of the bonuses you were paid are worth exactly $0. Also, no the majority doesn't pick up the tab. The US government actually made money on the loans that were the bailouts when they were repaid in 2014.

>>690028029
You can't sell your stocks and shares on the market any time you want? Oh boy who knew, you should tell the guys in new york.

>>690013373
My guess is that the overwhelming majority of businessmen/Industrialists who are involved in global commerce will run away from Trump. That's a lot of very powerful players who traditionally lead republican. Regardless of how they may feel personally it's in the end a business decision, guilt by association can be very costly and outside the United State Trump is unambiguously considered a bigot. The irony is Trump would probably do the same himself if this was nayone else running on the same platform. It's also the reason that for the most part Trump has only been endorsed by shit tier celebrities and why he will likely be openly suported by most profesionals for whom personal reputation is key. I'm talking big corporations not small town shop owners. You are not going to want to push campaigns for inclusion/diversity and then have a picture of your spokeman surface with a "Make America great again" baseball cap... You may not like it but it's true, Trump does not seem to understand big multi-nationals are now global and American only in name. If there's a small chance any of 3 in 4 consumers in the world might take offense at a company endorsing Trump there's no reason an investor in London or Zurich will not choose an equally promising company closer to home and without the liability. Hell, even American investors who do openly support Trump are very likely to diversify away from tainted business. When you have the US chamber of commerce casting doubts on the presumptive republican nominee you'd be unprofesional not to factor it in.

>>690026601
Sources? Becuase no, no there isn't. Why would a bank (or the trader in particular who is paid by his P&Ls) hold assets that they know to be toxic? What possible good could come of that? The problem was that nobody knew, not even the rating agencies.

>>690026775
> No, that's the truth, but social democratic wiffle-waffle always completely dilutes that message. The economic ruling class is indisputably the source of the corruption and counterproductive economic policy.
No it isn't. Read above. Sanders is either an absolute idiot or a liar because he was selling the same populist bullshit that is largely untrue. No, Wall Street wasn't responsible for the crash, no the taxpayers didn't lose money by bailing them out, etc.

> You'll never, ever, ever solve this problem under our current political-economic system
Never said I would, I just said that it is a real issue.

>>690027648
>It's a plan that relies on and increases the profits of private health insurance companies. Those fuckers are at the heart of the problem in the first place. Obamacare is pretending to do reform the fast and easy way, then using the resulting decrease in the number of uninsured to shut down any criticism. But that's not the whole story - if the stock price of private health insurance companies goes up after you pass your reforms, you're doing it wrong.

I agree, but the alternative is not any better. We could argue single payor vs mandatory private insurance, but something that was a huge consideration is just how great of a economic impact it would have been to switch to a private payer system. The current system is the less of two evils imo and hopefully over time I think that we need more reform on the cost of healthcare because we in the US pay the most for the same services across the world. But that's going to take the political will of the people to realize that competition in the private sector between insurance companies is not working.

>>690028601
Not usually. The agreement you sign usually says you can't sell them for x years (because the board of directors wants you to have a personal stake in success of the company). On top of that, if you did dump your shares, you'd sell them at a discount because you'd increase supply with no change in demand.

So actually, no, you can't. Save the sarcasm for an issue where you actually know something.

Clinton isnt liberal. Try again

>>690013373
> US Democratic party
> liberal left
Hilarious

>>690028029
89% of taxes are paid by individuals in the US. The remaining 11% are paid by companies. Who bankrolled the bail-outs again?

Source: http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-where-do-federal-tax-revenues-come-from

>>690028721
>No, Wall Street wasn't responsible for the crash

You don't think Wall Street was responsible for the 2008 financial collapse? Are you putting sole blame on government policy on mortgages instead? Seems like a stretch considering the staggering amount of underwriting, securities rating, and other securities fraud that surrounded the collapse. And just because it was (absurdly) legal doesn't mean it wasn't the cause of the problems.

>>690028925
>I agree, but the alternative is not any better. We could argue single payor vs mandatory private insurance, but something that was a huge consideration is just how great of a economic impact it would have been to switch to a private payer system.

I don't understand. Why wouldn't switching to a single-payer health care system be objectively better than keeping our current system, assuming the political will to make that switch existed?

>>690013373
Wonder what will happen if Hillary get indicted.

>>690029024

Sounds like it's you who doesn't know what they're talking about. You said yourself usually "x years", fill in the blank, is it 1, 2 or 100? Also does usually mean the highest earners get a waiver?

>>690029500
I think it would be better, easier to manage too, but the very real consideration is how many people would lose their jobs if that happened. Think about how many people work for insurance companies, how many people are needed to process claims, billing, coding, etc. It s cottage industry that unfortunately is possibly too big to fail.

>>690029951
It's amazing to me that we literally don't give a shit about people losing their jobs until it's time to protect a powerful special interest with well-funded lobbyists. We've de-industrialized this country with retarded trade deals that only benefit corporate executives and big-time investors, but now we're supposed to give a shit about jobs in private health care? Ha ha, hell no. Those companies siphon billions of dollars that should go towards patient care, and collude with pharmaceutical companies to keep drug prices absurdly high. Fuck them to death, I say.

>>690028721
Try this for starters.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_entities_involved_in_2007–08_financial_crises#Banks

>>690029344
The bailouts were an investment basically. They were loans that were paid back in 2014 and the government actually made money on them (because of interest). I'd hardly call that losing money.

>>690029350
Nope. They didn't make the loans or package them into MBSs (that was Fannie and Freddy). Wall Street didn't even know they were bad (and therefore that the structured products were toxic). If Wall Street did know, then why would they hold these assets on their balance sheets and be hit so hard that several banks (Lehman Bros, Bear Sterns, etc.) went under.

>>690029636
It depends on the contract you sign. 5 is common. 2 is a lowball figure, and 10 is a very highball figure.

> Also does usually mean the highest earners get a waiver?
Nobody gets a waiver, that's the point. It's an additional way to tie pay to performance (in this case performance of the company). Please educate yourself, I don't have time to do it for you.

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>>690013373
You mean that they're backing the Inner Party now that someone is trying to hijack the Outer Party?

It's not just the Koch brothers. Trump has got (((them))) in a panic.

>>690030395
Preaching to the choir anon, I say fuck em too. I'm just pointing out what i've read as the main reason for not seriously considering single payer system.
If I remember correctly, I think it was actually Sanders who voted against the ACA precisely because he wanted that single payer system.

I think you are being a little unfair on trade deals though. Trade deals happen all over the world with or without our involvment. Basically, as you pointed out, its a shift in capital from one group to another. If we don't play we get left behind but also by playing we've also necessarily hurt our blue collar class. Manufacturing jobs have died out in the US, but high tech jobs have flourished, its a give and take.

>>690030648
You still never answered the question. If you own a bank and you know that a strain of assets are toxic (ie. that they are going to blow up because the risk is not adequately covered by the reward), would you hold them on your balance sheet? Blaming Wall Street for the financial crisis is like blaming the company that operates a train because somebody put a bomb on board and the police that patrol this train (ratings agencies) didn't catch it.

Daily reminder that both major parties in the US support big business and big government.

>>690031010
Not the same anon you're responding to, but basically assets are worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
Just cause you think you have a shitty asset doesn't mean you cant sell it or use it to offset capital gains on your taxes. Everything has value including toxic assets. It just so happens that once everyone found out just how toxic those assets became, the game of hot potato ended.