For fuck's sake, "rights" are a made-up concept. We don't have any rights to give up. You are not entitled to shit.

That's a stupid fucking flag. Have you ever seen a snake coiled up in such a manner? Preposterous! Why should anyone join a group with such a terribly designed flag?

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>>689916746

>>689917442
kek

most people are libertarians, but don't identify as such. because the people who say they're libertarians are usually conspiratard militia member survivalist nutjobs

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I am a Anarcho-Syndicalist, so technically a variety of left libertarian

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>>689919156
>you believe in literal nonsense

>>689919402
Says the 'libertarian'. You guys are pseudo-intellectual morons.

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Because some of us don't think that it's such a good idea to let our daughters grow up to be crack whores.

There is a point to enforcing some morality and baking in incentives into the tax system.

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Write instructions about taking down States and make society reborn as an anarcholibertarian society where every single one of us could became as big as he wants. No more injustice, no more governants playimg with us and our money and our possessions. Freedom, liberty as a flag.

No opression and unstoppable advances. The future. This century's revolution.

Governments are an old way to maintain societies.

FREEDOOOOOOM

>>689915775
Well, the libo candidate is a retard and his running mate is rabidly anti gun, which is a right, so thats why. They're generally retarded also.

>>689916436
Week b8 m8, r8 it 0/8

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>>689919662

Because its a shit tier ideology.

>>689916687

/thread

>>689919662
>removing welfare will increase the number of crack whores
anon, I

>>689919662
>good idea to let our daughters grow up as crack whores

This, i fucking hate this type of shit. Learn to control your little shit kid then because i refuse to watch what i say and do because your a failure of a parent.

>>689916687
nail on the head

>>689920064
>>689916687
Yes, none of those things would ever happen without a gun to peoples' heads. Idiots.

>>689915775

Whenever someone talks about "rights" as a vague concept it is always they feel they have the right to some something super shitty to other people.

>>689915775
Because grown people understand that human nature makes it fail. Idealistic young people believe in things like Libertarianism, Communism, and Marxism because they don't have enough life experience to understand that human nature derails all of these systems,

>>689919662
It's called parenting you retard

>ITT: butthurt people immediately start grabbing at straws to try to slightly discredit the argument

>>689916687
>>689920064
>>689920216
You guys are retarded.
There's a difference between libertarianism and anarchism and anarcho-capitalism/anarcho-libertarianism. We aren't talking robert nozick ideology here we are talking something obscenely more liberal.

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Libertarian moderate.
The government should have the interests of the people, but there should obviously still be rules.
I'm mostly concerned about freedom of speech and expression, as in being able to express yourself in any way, as long as it doesn't fall outside the limits of free speech, (as in inciting violence)
To be honest, America's actually pretty good at that. Its not perfect, but compared to nanny states like Germany and Australia, America offers people the ability to express themselves pretty well.
That being said, I still believe that there can be changes made, like putting doxxing under inciting violence. But change can't be made without compromise or patience, and trying to force any kind of agenda with zealotry will only make you look like just that: a zealot.
I believe freedom of speech doesn't need protecting, but there should be limits to what can be publicly said, since human nature dictates someone will try and pull off some mad shit. I just believe the line should be drawn pretty far off, to the point where its blatant incitement of violence.

>>689920334
kek, says the fucking /b/tard. You must be such a retard.

Because freedom is a burden, feeling safe is more comforting

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>>689920334

Really, so you think that the people who believe in the two party system, that government can take care of them and protect them from everything are the cynical ones.

And the Libertarians who think that government is corrupt, inefficient and incompetent are the idealistic ones.

That's fascinating.

>>689920716
No-one asked you for this garbled shit.

>>689920841
Yeah, name an example of any of these systems that isn't completely corrupt.

>>689920975
no one asked for this thread

>>689920920
It's one thing to say a particular government sucks. It's quite another to say that society could get along without any form of government at all.

>>689920841
Name any government system ever devised that has not been given over to corruption. Fucking dumbass.

>>689921041
>Name any government system ever devised that has not been given over to corruption. Fucking dumbass.

>>689916687
I know this is b8 but I'll humor it anyway
>No internet
DARPAnet was trash. That's why the private sector improved internet accessibility through ISPs, to provide internet more efficiently and cheaply to appeal to a larger consumer base, thus make more money.
>No FDA
People prefer consistency to inconsistency, the first axiom of philosophy. Thus, a company that discloses all information about their products is more appealing to consumers. People buy into their safety voluntarily.
>No laws about seat belts or airbags
Okay, then buy a seat belt and install airbags. Just because there's no law saying you HAVE to do it doesn't mean you can't.
>Dirt road
Private roads are of higher quality, built quicker, and are managed better than public roads
>Work hours
Companies have to compete with each other to get employees. The companies with the bets working conditions attract more laborers, even at the expense of wage. If you don't like teh conditions, either work elsewhere or start your own business
>I can't afford private school
Again, subsidized public education drives up the price of private education. In a competitive market, prices go down.
>Police
Same applies to security contractors
>only make $800
Again, firms compete for employees by raising wages. That's why 90% of all jobs pay above minimum wage.
>Hospitals
Same market practices apply

That was written by someone who has obviously never taken an economics course.

>>689920184
if you wouldn't get your economic and poltiical education from 4chan memes or deluded memester like Stefan Molyneuxread and actually gave a book a try you'd believe in some sort of socialism or at least some form of regulated capitalism(which will never happen probably)

>>689920920
Any examples of a Libertarian government maintaining a national infrastucture out there you'd like to point to? The two party system sucks and is corrupt as well but it works better than relying on the good will of others.

>>689915775
Because books are boring and shit, and telling people to get quiet constantly must be a pain.

>>689915775
Because freedom don't come free. I'm an American soldier, an American. I will stand beside my brothers and proudly take a sand. Yes, I am an American, soldier. American

>>689921265
And this was clearly written by someone taking their high school economics course as gospel.

>>689921600
Actually, I'm finishing my masters in economics this fall with a minor in marketing. Good try, though.

Libertarian is just another word for people who feel that they are above paying taxes but should still be given all the services that taxes pay for.

>>689921721
And that disproves what I said... how...?

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>>689921878
The word you're looking for is freeloader (democratic socialist)

>>689921957
All you did was insult him instead of bringing evidence to the table.

>>689921721
Lol, go home and eat your dumplins n porridge, boy

>>689921957
You didn't say anything other than "wow you know more about economics, the study of people and how they interact with currency and exchange in the real world, than me. that means you're wrong, somehow".

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>>689921265
This must be b8. Nobody is this wilfully fucking naive and ignorant.

>People prefer consistency to inconsistency, the first axiom of philosophy. Thus, a company that discloses all information about their products is more appealing to consumers. People buy into their safety voluntarily.
Bullshit. Companies, freed from supervision, would simply form a cartel in which none of them release the info because it would keep costs down and prevent them having to compete with each other - which would require expenditure and time, neither of which would appeal to shareholders.

>Okay, then buy a seat belt and install airbags. Just because there's no law saying you HAVE to do it doesn't mean you can't.
Once again, for one so cynical about the intentions of the government you have a pathetically servile and naive belief in the innate goodness of corporations.

>Private roads are of higher quality, built quicker, and are managed better than public roads
Just speculation, also not backed up by any evidence in the fucking real world.

>Companies have to compete with each other to get employees. The companies with the bets working conditions attract more laborers, even at the expense of wage. If you don't like teh conditions, either work elsewhere or start your own business
I can't even. You are such a retard. Because the few workers rights we have now were granted to us by the benevolent corporations in order to attract workers! Fuck me.

>Again, subsidized public education drives up the price of private education. In a competitive market, prices go down.
Does not understand markets

>Same market practices apply
Same made-up fantasy markets apply in your fucking fantasy fairytale castle corporate world.

People like you are scarily confident in the utter bunkum they spout. Fucking please read some books, I am begging you.

>>689922139
Freedom don't come free , m8

Libertarians are retarded. Their philosophy is, instead of doing what's right for the country I'm gonna meet everybody half way.

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>>689921721
What clown college are you at?

>>689921721
>good try, though

Why does that fucking trigger me so god damn much?

>>689922139
I was saying "You bought into all that bullshit in high school"

Then he said "I bought into all that bullshit for SEVERAL MORE YEARS THAN THAT"

Sure, he's a bigger expert in bullshit than most people, but it's still just bullshit.

>>689922442
Kek, top post.

>>689922125
Then tell the people who constantly yell "I'm a Libertarian" that. They think they should be able to do whatever they want with their land no matter the effect on their neighbors' properties. They always bitch about taxes, constantly complain about the school system and then instantly let everyone know how late the garbage man or snowplow was. They bitch about 911 response times, complain about potholes, it's just such fucking bullshit to even hear the word libertarian from most people's mouths.

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>>689922268
>7 discrepencies

>>689922268
>1st point
You've clearly never studied game theory.
>2nd point
That doesn't logically follow what I said. You pay someone to install airbags and a seatbelt. Woah, crazy, right?
>3rd point
Research private roads. I mean most of these you can fix with 5 minutes on google.
>4th point
Do you not understand how much employees need labor? why else to you think 90% of all positions pay higher than minimum wage? It's because companies have to pay more to attract laborers. As they expand, you have to hire more. They're supposed to teach you this is middle school.
>5th
You don't know how bubbling works.
>6th
>economics is just fairy tales
I'm very well read. Friedman, Smith, Mises, and Hayek are my favorites. I bet you fucking love Rawls and Keynes.

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>>689916687

Despite all this greentext nonsense, the Libertarian Party wouldn't abolish publicly funded roads, nor a strong military-industrial complex.

The gov't would continue servicing basic needs like defense, law enforcement, and public works.

The entire principle of the party is personal responsibility.

However, were the federal and state governments to become majority libertarian tomorrow, then yes, we'd have instant chaos and be plunged into a dystopia.

Realistically that will never happen. The LP won't be a majority party, nor should it be. We could use an infusion of LP principles in this country, though. A greater leaning towards a smaller, less intrusive government with increased transparency.

That sounds a bit like the Republican Party, sure. But they're stuck on hot-button issues.

Who am I supposed to vote for? I own guns but don't make it a lifestyle choice, I support gay marriage for the simple reason that it does me no personal harm yet makes others happy, I think abortion should be left up to the mother/father/family's beliefs, I think taxes are too high and the tax code is too complex, and that we're in a legal mire of tens of thousands of laws and precedents that even a top-of-his-field lawyer can't possibly understand in total.

So should I vote for a racist orange reality show host, or a disingenuous cog in the Washington machine? Neither.

I'll do what little I can to try to sway us back to some sense of personal responsibility for our actions and outcome.

Throwing my vote away? Maybe.

But it's better than apathy, or choosing a leader simply because they're the lesser of two evils.

>>689915775
because libertarians don't like bullshit like socialists and free shit appeals to children that don't live in the real world.

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>>689923001
>I'm very well read. Friedman, Smith, Mises, and Hayek are my favorites

>>689922730
When evaluating something, think who is to benefit.

>Who benefits for libertarian policy?
Intelligent people who know how the market works. Work is rewarded directly. Therefore, inferior people (Intelligence, morals) don't like the idea of freedom.

>>689922268
>Every company to ever exist would join this magical cartel
And you don't think a single one would operate with transparency to get more customers? What do you think a Nash equilibrium is?

>>689923001
Nope. Unsurprised that Friedman is your bae. Enjoy your dogma bro.

>Do you not understand how much employees need labor? why else to you think 90% of all positions pay higher than minimum wage? It's because companies have to pay more to attract laborers. As they expand, you have to hire more. They're supposed to teach you this is middle school.

kek. Yep, the Peasant's Revolt of 1381 occurred mainly because the plague literally killed off a third of the labour force and the employers of said labour refused to pay more despite the increase in demand. The revolt was brutally smashed because there was no workers organisation and no structure through which they could collectively bargain.

History does not bear out your fantasy.

>>689923608
>Those highly renowned nobel prize winners don't count

>>689918869
joined local libertarian facebook page
first post is about our parking meters being upgraded with card readers
parking prices go up a little bit to cover credit card fees
libertaritard goes on rant about how the contractor who installed them should've absorbed the cost of the fees
brought up the fact that parking is still dirt cheap for a city our size
asked how long the contractor should've payed for the fees
forever

>>689923608
What's your favorite minecraft sever, kid?

not the guy you responded to, but you looking REAL dumb right now

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>>689915775
Get ready to feel the Bern, you neo-Nazi Trumpcucks. There's a storm coming, in the form of millions and millions of disaffected Americans sick of having the American lie shoved down their throats by racist, homophobic Nazis like you and the mainstream media. Don't like what I'm saying? Go back to Faux News.
Capitalism has to be the greatest failure of organised government ever- but it came with the greatest lie ever told as well. Everything is fine. Keep consuming. Keep producing. You are what you own, and if you don't own anything, you are worthless.
The capitalist Ponzi scheme is falling, /b/rothers, just a little later than Marx predicted. It is coming.

>>689923736
>here's an incident where a factory refused to pay more, the workers revolted, and the factory failed

You realize this supports MY argument right? If the produces don't adapt, the workers won't supply labor.

>>689923001
>I'm very well read. Friedman, Smith, Mises, and Hayek are my favorites.

kekketty kek. What a hilariously stupid guy.

>>689924184
Is there an argument coming or is that the best you got?

>>689923001

>I'm very well read. Friedman, Smith, Mises, and Hayek are my favorites.

0/5 tried too hard

>>689923736
>The revolt had various causes, including the socio-economic and political tensions generated by the Black Death in the 1340s, the high taxes resulting from the conflict with France during the Hundred Years' War, and instability within the local leadership of London. The final trigger for the revolt was the intervention of a royal official, John Bampton, in Essex on 30 May 1381. His attempts to collect unpaid poll taxes in Brentwood ended in a violent confrontation, which rapidly spread across the south-east of the country.

Literally government intervention and high taxes caused that incident, idiot. Do your research.

>>689924105
Unless the choice is labour or starvation. In which case survival will take precedent over pride. To believe that corporations would apply gentle and benevolent methods to attract and keep a workforce rather than coercion, violent or otherwise, is the preserve of woefully naive fantasists.

>>689924437
>Gee I need to have workers or else I'll go out of business and lose everything I own
>
>
>
>Nah, I guess I won't hire anyone
Says the woefully naive fantasist.

>>689924389
>Literally government intervention
Did you even read the sentence you copied from wikipedia?
I also don't think you understand what feudalism is or how it works. There is no nation-state at this point. If this is what you call research then enjoy your life as a gas station attendant.

>>689924664
>Government: the governing body of a nation, state, or community.
You don't know what a government is. That's fine for an elementary schooler, but you should know better. If there's taxation, a ruling body is in place.

You still haven't refuted a single claim.

>>689924636
>Same argument every time
>cannot provide examples
>cannot defend argument with actual logic, only twisted logic predicated on the innate goodness of corporations - something which has never been borne out by history, it is quite the contrary.
>Doesn't understand how corporations actually function
>Likes to talk about the 'real world' but masturbates to Milton Friedman.

Kek, you are beyond saving. Have a good life being cucked by your bosses and whistling while you work. Your employers laugh at your stupidity.

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FUCK YOUR VALID AGRUMENTS
>>>689924636
>>689924269
>>689923608
>>689923049
>>689923001

>also dubs

>>689924946
Which claims have you made? Please point to one.

Nation state is not the same as government. To call a tax levied by a feudal king and aristocracy 'government intervention' in the sense that you are is utterly moronic.

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>>689925277
checked

>>689925080
>innate good of corporations
You keep saying that, but you don't know what it means
This is a case of self interest. You want some examples? Okay, Walmart. Target. Sinopec. Samsung. Sony. Microsoft. All of these companies operate in the interest of making money by having workers on the floor providing service in exchange for compensation.

Asking for a libertarian option is like asking to eat from the trashcan at a buffet. Even if all the other choices are shitty, you still don't want the actual shit

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>>689925520
I've watched CNN for a long time and I can tell you that shit ain't true.

>>689925331
Okay, since you can't read on your own, I'll be very clear.

The revolts were a result of the tyranny of a ruling body in the community. Holy shit, also known as a government. No one brought up nation-states except you. The workers revolted against unjust AUTHORITY.

ITT: Authoritarians getting absolutely BTFO

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>>689925774
>>689925520

>>689925520
Walmart, known for locking in unpaid illegal immigrants overnight to clean stores. Yep, good ol' walmart will look after us.

Microsoft utilising third world child labour. Good ol' microsoft

Samsung - same

Sony - same

Apple - same

Big tobacco - same

It's also in their self interest to exploit people and wring them dry. Do you deny this?

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>>689925990

>>689916687
>thinking libertarian is anarchy
Jesus, libertarian is more about making sure the government stays within its role

>>689926102
Spiderman fag here

No one is forcing those kids to work in those companies. (Kids choose to work there)

>>689925774
>The workers revolted against unjust AUTHORITY.
Yeah, and? Corporations are unjust power structures. They are innately tyrannical. At least with a modern state the people have a small, if tokenistic, say in who runs the show.

Democracy is king. ancaps are crazy

>muh free shit meme.

>>689915775
You do that what you are describing is authoriatarianism correct? Or did you mean being liberal or leftist? Because libertarian, liberal, and leftist ideology's are completely different from one another. Libertarians traditionally believe in less government involment due to a classical fear of governmental tyranny.

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>>689921099

That's anarchy, not Libetarianism.

>>689921312

Yeah sure, the United States for its first 50 years or so. Initially our government was very limited, over 240 years its grown progressively larger and more bloated until it grew into the God awful mess you see today.

I don't want to burn it to the ground; but surely a little pruning is in order.

>>689926333
Corporations have no power without government, idiot. They can't force people to buy from them, and they can't force people to work for them. The only power they get is through preferential government treatment.

Let's play your delusional game though. How has Walmart exercised its power over you? How has ANY corporation exercised power over you?

>>689926237
>Thinking that's a description of anarchy

Jesus this website is full of retards

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Amerifags

>>689926597
It is though. A non government entity is anarchist

>>689926543

IT + IS = IT'S

Otherwise it's ITS

There is no ITS'

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>>689926742

>>689926840
THANK YOU

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>>689926840
Good show!

>>689926559
>Corporations have no power without government, idiot.

Good god, I hope you aren't actually in charge of anything.

>How has ANY corporation exercised power over you?

Are you seriously asking this question? Like... this is an astonishing level or stupidity you are displaying here.

>>689927027
Answer it. What corporation, without the aid of government, has forced you to do anything? You don't think I notice that you're avoiding the question?

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>>689915775
Because I'm not 12 and not a fuckwit

Sane people aren't libertarians because they understand that protecting rights is expensive. Social liberalism and fiscal conservatism don't jive.

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>>689927027
>pic related
Then answer him, prove him wrong instead of buying time.

>>689926321
Starvation or WageSlaving

a true choice


>survival of the fittest haha.If you can't compete in the market gtfo haha :^)

And when sandniggers and spics inavde you all turn into /pol/yps.jesus.

>>689927153
No he's right you're a fucking idiot.

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>>689927027
Oh, hey Carl

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>>689927311
Prove it. Answer him!

>>689915775
>Why do you want to give your rights away?

"The primary reason why the individual citizens of a country create a political structure is a subconscious wish or desire to perpetuate their own dependency relationship of childhood. Simply put, they want a human god to eliminate all risk from their life, pat them on the head, kiss their bruises, put a chicken on every dinner table, clothe their bodies, tuck them into bed at night, and tell them that everything will be alright when they wake up in the morning.

This public demand is incredible, so the human god, the politician, meets incredibility with incredibility by promising the world and delivering nothing. So who is the bigger liar? the public? or the "godfather"?

This public behavior is surrender born of fear, laziness, and expediency. It is the basis of the welfare state as a strategic weapon, useful against a disgusting public. "


-----Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

>>689927311
Then answer the question. What corporation has forced you to do anything without government power? I'll keep asking until you do

>discussing shit you have no intellectual concept of
Holy shit this thread is cancerous.

>>689922268
You're actually fucking retarded.

>>689926559
If there was no government, what options would we have to get our goods and services than our corporations? A government's role is to keep their power in CHECK, not GIVE them power.

It's mutually beneficial for a number of large corporations to stop competing and form a massive conglomerate... a monopoly, if you will.

So sure, they cannot force us to buy anything from them, but if we have no other choice then we will, even if they massively inflate prices and just generally put out shitty products, if they're the only choice then they really do have quite a lot of control over our daily lives. People could plant their own crops, grow and eat their own food, but nobody could be expected to build their own electronics from scratch. At some point, you'd have to support the national mega-monopoly that's taken over and which is essentially the new government in place of the old one, complete with a private army.

Like I said... this isn't the concept of typical Libertarianism where government isn't completely abolished, but it's not the ideal concept of anarcho-libertarianism and that's exactly how it would turn out.

>>689917051
Lol

>>689916436
/thread

Libertarians are the ultimate special snowflakes.

>>689927753
There's this crazy thing out there called competition. It's when multiple firms have to make their prices cheaper and higher quality in order to attract consumers. If they don't, they lose money because people don't buy from them.

>>689927753
>speculation: the post

i dont really want to be one
but seeing as how the liberal and conservative parties are now both corrupt and bought by the same people

there needs to be a new system the government only works for billionaires now

>>689927753

Indeed.

Libertarians have no concept of "power" other than zero-sum coercion.

If you mention "power" and how inequalities in power distort the market, they just mention stuff about "nature" and "morality"...

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This

(She WILL win)

Someday... Men like me WILL come for your guns, after we repeal the 2nd Amendment.

>>689927949
So you are saying you have no rights as a human?

>>689928190
Libertarians have no concept of power other than voluntary exchange of goods and services, actually.

>>689928242
Yes and neither do you.

>>689928242

"Rights" are a social convention. They are meaningless unless they're agreed between people and most importantly: ENFORCED.

>>689928190
What are these inequalities in power? Please provide an example that doesnt include government mandated protections that allow corporations to over reach

>>689928365
So i dont have the right to say what i want?

>>689928092
Again, why compete when it is more beneficial to team up?

There were monopolies forming left and right without people in authority breaking them up.

Now, obviously not EVERY corportation would join. Some competition will always exist, either because it is for some reason in their best interest or they have some sort of ideal as a company they strive towards, but they wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight.

Without any regulation of any kind, companies could get up to all kinds of dirty shit to manipulate customers and unfairly bully competition. There's literally no incentive to play fair if no one's forcing you to.

>>689928338

That was my point.

A "voluntary" exchange isn't possible when there's a disparity in power. The exchange is made under duress.

>>689928580
>What are these inequalities in power?

Someone who owns resources has greater bargining power than someone selling their labor in order to survive.

Libertarianism can only work in a white educated segregated nation. It can't work in this world we exist in now.

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>>689915775
NO step on snek

>>689928512
Rights are a social invention in the same way that science is a human invention, yes.

>>689928890
How so? Can these sellers of labor not organize?

>>689929007
Made DAT my self

MUH ROADS

>>689928701
That's the fundamental question behind game theory. What you're describing is a cartel. Here's a link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

The consensus among economists and behavioral analysts is that at least one of the companies in the cartel will cheat. This means that they will lower their price to try and win over all the other consumers because, in their interest, they make more money. That's the fundamental purpose of a business, after all. Once one company breaks, all the others do, because they're now losing out on a ton of money.

Now the next thing you may ask is "Well, what if none of them break"? And the answer is very similar. A cartel can never capture an entire market. For example, there's no way a farming cartel can possibly get every single farmer in the world to comply with their demands. Thus, they'll compete with lower prices, and the cartel falls apart because they have to compete as well.

>>689928228
>Men like me WILL come for your guns, after we repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Bwhahaha. I can assure you, boy. That dog won't hunt. Government can't even disarm the nigger gangs in Chicago, Baltimore, or Memphis. Good luck trying that on combat veterans and well prepared and supplied people out in the country.

I can assure you, this nation will run out of government hacks ready to die for a lower middle class salary and promise of a shitty pension long before it runs out of men and women who would rather die than live as a slave.

>>689920334
the fuck do you have against communism?

>>689919156
Fuck yes

>>689916436
Go fuck yourself government cock sucker. You're the reason that all of us will be in prison with a tube up are ass because rights are just "worthless".

>>689919854
Rights only exist in the minds of Westerners.

human rights do not exist for the Arabs, seeing as they're still the biggest people traffickers on the planet.

>>689929311
Because communism cant work without slaves, real slaves

>>689929098

Are owners of resourses not at liberty to organize?

>>689929077
>science

Show me evidence of a universal "right" conveyed by nature...

>>689926102
tell me what would happen if microsoft stopped using third world kids for production?These kids would simply had no work, thus nothing to eat.As 'bad' as it may sound, outsourcing work is not sucha a bad thing.

>>689929277
Lower prices isn't the only, or even the most important, bargaining chip in economics.

One that's rarely mentioned in those courses is social manipulation. The importance of brands, and advertising.

The huge mega-monopoly, cartel, whatever you want to call it, has access to far greater resources in this department than little farmer Joe. People will pay top dollar for overpriced shit if the marketing and branding makes it more appealing. Doesn't even matter if it's an inferior product as massively inflated prices.

And the means will be quite different as well. Smaller companies might be able to do well with food and other simple products. Electronics, however, requires far more of a production chain. A huge mega-corporation can own all steps of that production chain, while a smaller company may only have access to a slice. They can't compete that way, not for long.

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>spent her last years living on Social Security
Lol

>>689927311
You're delusional

>>689929359
It's not about an ideal, it's just the truth. People don't objectively have universal rights given to us at birth by some creator. We came up with the concept, and defined it.

Someone has to ENFORCE rights. Otherwise, it's extremely easy to change or remove them. Even the most hardcore Libertarian can't deny this.

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>>689930039

The fallacy of relative privation...

Just because a shit sandwich is better than no sandwich at all, it doesn't make a shit sandwich a good thing.

>>689930309
a hardcore libertarian would then concede in saying that rights are therefore irrelevant and meaningless.

Freedom cunt

>>689930309
Most libertarians believe that we have negative rights.Which is right not to be killed and not to be stolen from etc.But no rights to (free education etc.)

>>689930139
>spent her last years taking back the money taken from her by the government
Lol

I have a question to libertarians

How would a welfare state look like with no government involvement. Donations? What is a realistic practical solution?

>>689930717
That right hasn't existed amongst the human populace for most of our existence, so no it's not really considered a norm..

>>689930887
If you don't like being a member of society move to Somalia infantile cunt

>>689930605
No, rights are important. When I say this, I don't say it because I think the concept of rights is stupid. I say it because they are also extremely fragile. You have to be careful who you give power to in order to enforce those rights.

As corrupt as our current government is, our rights as stated in the Constitution have been largely honored, obviously with some major exceptions but this is also compared to many other forms of government.

Certain forms of Libertarianism advocate giving the enforcement of those rights to groups that have no incentive to uphold them, and that's a dangerous line to walk, BECAUSE rights aren't universal and unalienable in reality, outside of a social contract.

>>689929826
Sure, but they are the ones who are trying to make a bunch of money, they have more to lose. Anon above pointed out how cartels basically have no power, so if that is where you are going look into that

>>689931024
All exchanges have to be voluntary, so yes, donations. Considering US citizens already donate billions of dollars every year to various charities (breast cancer, the ALS nonsense, feed the poor, etc), I'd say it would go very well. If not, then they'ree have to sustain themselves like the one's who donate.

"Your 'need' is not a mortgage on my property"

>>689931024
Die quickly.

>>689931315
Kek
>ive lost: the post

I am, but the people who run as libertarians tend to be horrible or inexperienced. So I'm stuck choosing between them and slightly less horrifying options. At least until it's Hillary vs Trump. Then I am just out of options.

>>689931315
>If you don't like being extorted on threat of imprisonment, get the fuck out. This is America.

Can't wait until Social Security defaults, lol

>>689916436
that's exactly what libertarians think

>>689915775
>sane people
>being lelbertarians
no

>>689931562
Vote Johnson if you only agree with some libertarian ideals. I swear to god he's a Democrat in disguise.

>>689931506
Yes, you have lost. Your political philosophy is that of a child. Congrats.

>>689929277
It seems to me that it's almost based off the assumption of a level playing field.

If this form of government/society were to somehow suddenly form here in the U.S., we would not be on a level playing field. We're be going into the game with giants like Wal-Mart and Microsoft from the very beginning.

>>689931315
Love how statists are getting assblasted ITT

>>689915775
I am a libertarian because I don't want to pay for worthless cunts who are not able to find a job and be responsible like functioning adults

>>689931315
The point is that she was a hypocrite for doing so, given what she supposedly believed in and advocated.

>>689915775
>>689915775
liberals are retarded for not voting libertarian . they want marijuana and gay marriage but wont vote for the only party that wants to legalize anything you do in private as long as you dont harm other people

>>689931758
>waaaaah gimme free shit

>>689915775
Ask Chomsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NajQTN9qhXg

>>689931762
All playing fields are leveled over time. Although people will tell you different, without arbitrary government preference, corporations have NO POWER over you. They have no means to use legislated force. Free markets are the only real means of creating a level field.

>>689931708
Yeah, but he won't win. I have to decide if I think Trump believes half the crazy shit he says. If he does then he has to be defeated. If not then it's got to beat having Hillary in office.

>>689931366
>Sure, but they are the ones who are trying to make a bunch of money, they have more to lose

The owners own resources. They have capital. They have leverage.

The man selling his labor in order to eat, has starvation to think about. He has less leverage; this is true whether he chooses to combine with others facing starvation, or not.

>>689932011
He won't win, that's certain. However, if he gets on the ballot and gets enough votes, more money will be allocated to the libertarian party platform in future election cycles. It's not a complete loss.

>>689931838

You're not a "libertarian", you're simply a conservative.

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>>689931830
Yeah, no. 'Statist' is the word a 19 yr old dandruff eating shit head uses to sound "intelligent."

>>689931758
>i dont understand greentext
Homie, the moment you tell someone to get out, you lose

>>689931964
Cool story bro. Moms about ready to finish dinner. Better get up stairs.

>>689932140
rektt

>>689931893
She took back what was taken from her against her will. I think theft is wrong, but I felt pretty justified when I took back the bike that my neighbor Scott stole from me in 4th grade.

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>>689915775
>

>>689916687
retarded bait
>>689920064
no, it's not

libertarianism recognizes that private businesses and institutions will rise to meet the demand of basic things that rational people want, like fucking seatbelts in a car, you moron. if it became legal to stop wearing a seatbelt tomorrow, would you stop?

if crack became legal tomorrow, would you start to smoke it?

fucking grow up you 29 year old hillary voter basement dweller

>>689931998
OK, so plutarchy isn't a thing? The billions spent on advertising and rigged third world elections are all in my head. No mercenaries working for private companies. I'm just having a really bad and long trip.

>>689921878
"......they should still be given all the services that taxes pay for."

Through the power of the free market. Minarchists argue that some basic level of government (and so taxes or even voluntary payment for it) for stuff like security would be fine. So it's not all 'gimme free shit' which communitards and sociopaths ask for.

Libertarian society: You get what you paid for.

>>689932055
So these men are only forced to work for others? Are these men not able to grow their own food? Are they not able to work for themselves? What makes you think the world will devolve into giant corporations if the government was scaled back? I assume you prescribe to the notion that walmart is the biggest welfare recipient, no? Well without the government helping their bottom line, they will have to shape up once people organize.

>>689932520
Plutarchy has to have the power of government, and force. Without a government giving preference, plutarchy can't exist.

>>689931998
Look, you can't have a society without government. It literally doesn't happen, because power is always concentrated somewhere. In a zombie apocalypse, a group of survivors chooses a leader and BAM! Now they have a government. It's a small and simple government, but it's still a government. As people collect and form a fledgling society, that government will become larger and more powerful.

Here's the thing. Who has the most bargaining power of anyone in a country where the current form of government has completely disappeared? Assuming this occurred as part of an actual policy change and not an apocalypse, money still has value and thus gives those who own it power. Thus, a massive corporation has the most power of anyone.

They would BECOME governments themselves. They could GAIN military power of their own through mercenaries and private armies. They could literally WAGE WAR with each other.

And eventually, one would be the victor.

>>689932441
ah the age old socialist bait, that even shitposting faggots like you fall for when it's just a joke. the irony. star trek is an example of authoritarianism. the entire space ship is run by one captain, retard

>>689932182
>ad hom
>still thinks he isnt assblasted
Lol

>>689932608
>So these men are only forced to work for others? Are these men not able to grow their own food?

What happens when finite resources are homesteaded?

>What makes you think the world will devolve into giant corporations...

Who mentioned "corporations"?

>>689915775
"libertarians" are just racists who have wet dreams about tax evasion

For all you tards saying ''hurr durr Somalia" or some shit like that, capitalism has raised more people from poverty than any of your hippie cucktivism bullshit.

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>>689932710
>the entire ship is run by one captain
>what are First Officers
>What is a chain of command
>Starfleet run by admirals
Do note that Starfleet is the military arm of the UFP. It is NOT the governing body of Earth or any other planet. They don't even use money on Earth anymore.

>pu'taq

>>689932720
Honey! Dinners ready! Better get up there kiddo. It'll take your fat ass at least 15 min to climb those nine steps!

>>689932697

libertarianism doesnt want to remove government you ignorant cunt, it wants to minimize it nationally to the size our country was when it was founded. instead of having a government telling you what plants you can grow in your backyard.

>>689932949
Pillars of a Decentralised society:

https://youtu.be/8oeiOeDq_Nc

>>689932710
And a private space vessel working for an interplanetary corporation would operate the same way.

>>689932835
>what happens when finite resources are homesteaded
What finite resources? And help me out with homesteaded, the definition i found doesnt work here.
>who mentioned corporations
Nobody, but i assumed that was what you meant by resource holders, because the anti libertarians always use them as the great evil

>>689933029
who's going to protect your ass from terrorists and keep the beaners out without a government huh?

>>689933029
But the argument being given is that corporations need government to have power over you. I'm describing a situation in which a corporation has absolutely no government oversight whatsoever.

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>>689933020
>ive lost
>pic related
Oh youre cute

>>689932441
HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>689932441
If you knew the Star Trek universe you would know that it's post-capitalists society, not a socialist one.

>>689933271
No. There is nothing to win here. This is the fucking Internet. And you are behaving like a typical childish libertarian

>>689926840
Where did he say that? I've scanned it a few times. It's not even in the pic

>>689933160
>What finite resources?

Is land infinite?

> And help me out with homesteaded, the definition i found doesnt work here.

A man mixes his labor with a resource, that resource becomes his property. This is the basis of homesteading.

>Nobody, but i assumed that was what you meant by resource holders,

Why?

>>689933422
It's technically communist even, not just socialist. No capitalism at all.

>>689933020
Dumb fucking reply, idk if you're a dumb cunt but that was a dumb cunt reply.

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>>689933498
>oh god i must keep replying
>despite this being the internet i have the innate need to save face
>oh my bruised ego
>mfw

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>>689933422
see>>689933611
I know it's post-capitalist. I said nothing to the contrary.

>>689933599
Land is not infinite, but do you need land to grow crops?
I said why i assumed that

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>libertarians

>>689933931
I was reiterating your point, not arguing.

>>689929077
>science is a human invention
Oh boy...

>>689919156
>I'm a faggot who needs to announce why he's special
>I also have 0 understanding of how the real world works

>>689932441
Have you seen Venezuela?

That's where you're going to end up with socialism.

>>689933935
>Land is not infinite, but do you need land to grow crops?

You could try growing them in the sea, assuming the sea hasn't been homesteaded.

>>689928228
Good luck with that cupcake. Guess who you need to enact such confiscation? Military and police. Both of which swore oaths to defend the constitution. Not the federal govt. they would be on the side of the citizenry. Not to mention the literal millions of heavily armed and well trained citizens. Like I said. Good luck with that cupcake.

>>689915775
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6p7XPbyHdw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsPFU_eV2v4

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>>689934142
>

>>689934286
I fucked a Venezuelan prostitute on Xmas night. She really took it like a champ.

>>689933611
>>689934172
technically its true.It's not like planets are conscious

>>689933727
No. If you think you're accomplishing something here, you're wrong, and are a socially stunted individual. This doesn't even rise to level of trolling. It's just fucking pathetic. Your like the little brother who won't quit poking his sister on a long family car vacation. If fact, by virtue of the fact that you keep responding to me, and in such a childish way, it demonstrates your level of butthurt

>>689934286

Venezuala is subject to strict embargoes from the WTO. Same as Cuba.

The results were predictable.

>>689934293
You can grow crops anywhere m8, at least enough for yourself

>>689934459
>The results were predictable.

Yes, socialism or communism never works out. Big surprise.

Or can you name a single socialist country that is doing great?

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>>689934420
>oh god my ego
Lol youre awesome

>>689933255
a situation when government has no oversight over corporations whatsoever is called capitalism. true capitalism! this is not libertarianism jackwads.

>>689933243
again, libertarians view the government as necessary for basic functions like national security of the citizens. have you ever even wikipedia'd libertarianism? you are describing anarchism, and somehow thinking that is what libertarians stand for. it's not, retard.

>>689934761
Maybe because tons of self-described Libertarians are misrepresenting your beliefs, my bad.

>>689934694
You're a very sad and pathetic person. I'd bet dimes to doughnuts your father is disappointed in you.

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>>689934876

>>689934545

Are you really claiming you don't need land to grow crops?

This is why we can't have nice things.

>>689934682

Norway?

>>689934876
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)#Recent_issue_stances

>>689923049
Are you me?

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>>689935177
Norway is capitalistic. Along with the other northern countries.

>>689935249
Probably one of the biggest things I disagree with them on is public school.

We live in a time where the vast majority of people are literate. This is because of public school.

>>689919882
This is your typical progressive