>>689909866
also
general philosophy thread

>>689909866
Moral obligation to what or who?
Lets narrow down this question

>>689909866
OPs a fag again

It was an evolutionary. Tribes that couldn't co operate would die off. rinse and repeat until you get a stable government/ society. BUTTT that doesn't mean morals don't come from God. IF you think of what is Good is truth, and what is bad is a lie, or false. a moral law can stand. In the bible, it claims what is good leads to peace, and with peace is truth. and what is bad leads to self destruction ( of the soul) , which is a lie

>>689911598
forgot to say, the idea is that there always have to be truth behind things, so in other words, reasoning is God. And everything has a reason, there for it comes from God. Evil, self torment, or torment of others is a lie, because it does not give you peace of mind. You think it relaxes you and is good for the soul but in reality it just takes away your natural incentive to find truth. Examples: drinking, murder, gluteny, sex, do not bring you a peace of mind, and therefor will not lead to truth. You only think it does because it is a lie.

>>689911598
IMO
Your views are a bit skewed.
Morality is different from person to person. Not community to community.
Doing horrible things does lead to self destruction. Thats a based fact.

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>>689909866
Yes
We need to close this damn website and possibly put every single user in jail.
But I guess we can take some time to do that, so let's continue degrading niggers and hailing hitler for a few more years dear /b/tards.

Can I get a woo for all of these gay cuckold liar baiters?

>>689911973
Not if you can prove Good=God(aka reasoning) and Evil=untruth

>>689910510
Any obligation at all

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>>689912369
If aliens ever visited this planet some real faggot idiot who prepared this for years would shoot at them with his 'murican gun rights shotgun.
Relations would go to shit in second and before we know the not-mentally-challenged people on this planet have to wage war with the aliens.

>>689912483
I left religion out of it for a reason.
>>689912527
You only have an obligation to youself.
If others want to do things you disagree with, then let them. As long as it doesnt effect you, you shouldnt care.

never mind "we as human beings.."

do we, as warthogs, have any moral obligations?

as very large dogs?
as polyester t-shirts?

when do morals begin? with polyester t-shirts.

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>>689912619
Good is that what the majority of people believe and what offends the least people. Laws are set by those with the most power, those who can force others to follow these rules, we are never asked if we want to be kept from killing people just because, even if I'm okay with it personally.

>>689912369
I r8 ur b8 1/10 not subtle enough

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>>689912839
for reference, this is us as warthogs

What about obligations as a specie, like reproduction? How about breeding?like only thr best humans should be able to breed.

>>689909866
Inherently? No.

Within society, yes, but exactly what moral obligations those are depend on the society.

No OP, not in our nature. It's how we been programmed since birth. That's why the world is so diverse. Given different religions, customs, celebrating different heritages, all that good stuff is all that keeps us from all being savages.

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>>689912840
Right is just a concept of information, even ultimate truths like that physic exists and that 1 apple + 1 apple always gives you two apples might turn out to be falsifiable by something that just because ignores the laws of physics. God might just actually exist because he can ignore everything that is fact and co-exist without any limitations.
If you search for information long enough you will find solid reasons to make the colour blue illegal, to destroy the moon or to kill everyone who likes pickles.

In my opinion, from a scientific point of view we don't.
We are the consecuence of elemental particles interactions, that lead to a more complex way of exchanging energy with the enviroment. Reality is just a creation of our brains.
For example, colour isnt 't a property of matter, our brain just interprets the electromagnetic spectrum and creates images.
So in my opinion, we don't. But life doesn't work like this, and we have empathy and shit like that, that probably are things created by our raze to survive.

Let me see if I can make this clear

When it comes to Morality, the problem that most people get is that when it comes to a moral law, it is impossible because it is subjective We know it is subjective is because:
>anyone can say what the do is good
>there for morals become relative

HOWEVER, to get rid of the subjectivity, Abrahamic religons claim that, God (aka reasoning/truth) is Good, and everthing else is evil. That way subjectivity can not be true.

although the problem with this notion is "what decided that god is good?"

and this would be a problem except I argue this notion works best and explains how actions can be labled good or bad.

If we say that God is truth, it would be logical to be at peace, becuase you know that worrying gets you no where; Therefor self torment is illogical( untruth). So we know that in truth comes peace. Now if we look at our actions, sex drugs, murder ect. never leads us to peace, actually just the oppisite. Good things however often do, Love ext is literally comforting, so there for if it is peaceful, it leads to truth, And like I argued before, IF you were to know all truth, there is no sense worrying? self destruction because it leads no where. That is an example of a Moral law

>>689909866

Moral obligations are a part social order, not human evolutionary prerogatives.

>>689912760
Believing in God doesn't mean its a religon, many philosophers have come to the same conclusion of an absolute truth. Socrates, Kant , Hegel. There's a reason for it

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>>689909866
We only have morals because we evolve culturally, and subconsciously. At the very end we are all one and all part of the same thing. Since we are made of energy given by the universe and our thoughts and consciousness are made from this energy, and since energy cannot be created and destroyed our thoughts and consciousness must still exist somewhere. Thats where "we" (consciences from all living things in the universe) form a blob of primordial goop, being mixed together and evolve subconsciously for to better suit our next life.

nothing in this life has any mening at all. only we humans give mening to things. therefore if you dont not put mening in morals there are none. therefore there will be no morals once we human parasites are done.

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>>689913228
You can technically not be held accusable for anything you do, everything you are and do is just a chemical reaction in this machine formed through the breeding of coincidental replication machines and mistakes during that process caused by the things you learned, experienced and know.
Every opinion you have and every mistake you make is at fault of the things you knew and some seemingly random happenings that could have always been calculated with enough information and time and such are not random at all, if I turned back time after you rolled your dice and rewatched you doing so you would roll the exact same number every exact time, unless I decided, with the knowledge of having time-traveled to that moment, to change something about the situation that directly or indirectly affects your roll.

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>>689913738
>>689913535
Your brain is made of mush

moral = criteria which determines with who you mate

>>689914042
Then you simply don't understand the argument that I am proposing.

>>689914180
No
>>689914204
Youre stupid and not seeing the bigger picture. And somehow keep bringing religion into it.

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>>689914013
Vegetarians still eat lifeforms equally as valuable as animals.
Plants might not have feeling sensors that send information to their brain if they get killed, but they are still as alive as we are, and they've been around for at least as long as everything else living has, and such they deserve a life just as well as animals.

In conclusion
I'll keep eating meat and vegetables equally
eat rocks or life with guilt

>>689914378
Religion is founded on Philosophy you dipshit. They don't just spew random ideas for no reason. All I am saying is mentioning religion that HAVE ARGUED A CERTAIN WAY. Doesn't mean I am saying that religion in it's entity is right

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>>689914619
Just stop moron

>>689909866
Yes, it is our duty to evolve existing life or outright create it.

>>689909866
>Do we, as humans, have any moral obligations?

We eat, we fuck, we die. That's all there is.

>>689914994
our duty to whom ? and why ? what dose it matter if there is life ? also baceria is doing that better than us so.

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>God exists
maybe, it's your opinion
>only my god exists!
maybe, it's your opinion
>people who pray to false gods are stupid!!
maybe, it's your opinion
>THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO DIE
this violates laws and rights
you might have the right to believe in an invisible allmighty ghost being but at the point where your schizophrenic friend tells you to kill people you need to be locked up
>I MUST KILL EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T FOLLOW ALL RITUALS STRICTLY
I would rather cuddle hitler naked than talking to you further

Let me see if I can make this clear

When it comes to Morality, the problem that most people get is that when it comes to a moral law, it is impossible because it is subjective We know it is subjective is because:
>anyone can say what they do is good
>there for morals become relative

HOWEVER, to get rid of the subjectivity, many people claim that, God (aka reasoning/truth) is Good, and everything else is evil. That way subjectivity can not be true when Good and Evil are constant and never changing.

although the problem with this notion is the question:"what decided that god/truth is good?"

Now we just have to prove and relate that Truth= Good, from our perspective

If we say that God is truth, it would be logical to be at peace, becuase you know that worrying gets you no where;Hence self torment is illogical( untruth).
So that notion aruges
>peace=good=truth
Now if we look at our actions, sex drugs, murder ect. never leads us to peace, actually just the oppisite. Good things however often do, Love ext is literally comforting, so there for if it is peaceful, it leads to truth, And like I argued before, IF you were to know all truth, there is no sense worrying? self destruction because it leads no where. That is an example of a Moral law.

Eternal peace is what you see if every religon, this is why they stress Morality. Good actions lead to peace, which lead to Truth or God, depending on the religon

why must the quistion of morality become a qustion of god ?

>>689914994
Why?

>>689915072
To ourselves and it matters because of a little something called human curiosity. Bacteria is doing a better job now but 10,000 years from now, we will by far outstrip it. Our current job is just to survive until we reach a development level where that is feasible.

>>689915301
Because this nutjob joined in.
>>689915294

>>689914779
You're actually fucking retarded if you think otherwise. Holy shit you are narrow minded if you look down upon all religon in that way. Hegel, Kant, Socrates,Plato, Volitatre, John locke, and even confucious, and any form of idealism or religon have come to the same idea. If you claim they aren't philosophers kys

>>689915429
to me this sounds like the consikvens of our cuiosity. to me this is you projektigin mening and purpous into this goal. i am a part of humanity and i own no such thing to the group.

>>689915454
let his children be female. and his pinky toe hit great amany chairs.

>>689915454
Your not getting the point, this thread is about moral obligations. There are two different ideas,
Yes or No,
I am explaining the "yes" perspective and they all argue the existence of God to get rid of the subjectivity in morality.

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>>689915561
Youre so far off it... it pains me

>>689911598
I don't think it's God. What you said about tribes dying out because they can't cooperate is true, obviously, but the ones that didn't and could cooperate would in fact create laws against things like murder and shit, things like the Bible created laws against it, so now when you go outside of the law you feel guilty because by the laws that has not only been beaten into our heads, but also the heads of our parents, and their parents, etc

>>689915839

are Kant, Hegel, socrates and plato not philosophers? Because they argue the same notion

>>689916025
like any other love. you define it yourself. if you see yourself as a philosophers you are.

>>689915903
If you read my first text I argued that notion. It was clearly evolutionary but that doesn't mean that the argument is dead for a "moral law".

>>689915768
>they all argue the existence of God to get rid of the subjectivity in morality
No they dont. People who have never heard of religion still have morals. The subjectivity cannot be stopped.
Religious text is not clear cut, not objective, and increadibly open to interpretation.
Youre fucking retarded.

>>689915628
Of course you own no such thing to the group, if we all knew we'd go crazy.