>>689524194
> How does putting more restrictions on who gets firearms and how directly violate a person's right to bear arms?

Infringement

>>689524194
Also, you aren't getting rid of guns, you are just putting them in the hands of the government only. Our gun rights are meant to protect us against a tyrant government. All governments are tyrannical, even this one our second amendment was placed in there to protect us from it.
Your best bet would to go out and actually buy a gun

>>689524331
>Infringement
>directly violate

>>689524532
>Infringement
the action of limiting or undermining something.

>>689524511
I'm not saying get rid of, or ban guns.

I'm saying use a combination of education and sensible gun control, including background checks, taxation on ammunition and an assortment of other measures that allows law abiding citizens to buy and keep firearms, whilst making it harder for criminals, and known terrorists to buy them.

>>689524617
limiting does not mean impossible

>>689524683
How about actually having trust in people and understand that all these shootings are just a small drop in the ocean compared to all other forms of unnatural death.
More people die from being bludgeoned to death then by firearms . Guns aren't the best way to get away with murder,they are kind of loud

>>689524194
In Australia we have our own "Constitution". the beauty of our one though is that it is very general. Your constitution is more specific and binding. Both are somewhat outdated however the Aussie Constitution is so open to interpretation that it is easy to update (1996 gun control act: Since then no mass shooting here). You Amerifags are so obsessed with your sacred document (memorise the amendments for example). Even I, an Ausfag, know more about the US constitution than the Australian one. Australians don't bother memorising our constitutional details because our document is not as useful to us. Much better to learn our current laws

>>689524617
Do hate speech laws not then also undermine or limit the first amendment?

>>689525139
Yet murder rates didn't drop, actually they are rising. Especially in the home invasion robbery category.

>>689525204
Yes and no. Depends on if the hate speech calls for or incited violence

>>689524194
>Why can't the constitution be changed?
Especially when it's a fucking amendment that needs to be modified. AMENDMENT.

>>689525646
Doesn't need to be modified, you all need to go out and buy yourself a gun

I've never understood amerifags obsession with that piece of paper.

Just because some racist retards wrote something a couple centuries ago, doesn't make what they wrote sacred.

>>689525354
True. Just pointing out that because we have no 2nd amendment, we could respond to the recent trend of gun violence. People can still own guns for sporting and hunting. They just have to be the type of gun you use for that. Bolt actions and shotguns. No need for fucking assault rifles and semi-auto battle rifles for that.

>>689525781
>wrote something a couple centuries ago
wrote something, then modified it with an amendment.

>>689525846
But id had no effect on your murder rates, so it was a useless law

>>689525781
Damn, you all want to be controlled by your government. Told how to act, what to do and actually like being brainwashed drones.

>>689525036
This. I don't own a gun myself, but there are probably background checks anyway. They wouldn't just sell guns to insane people, illegals or insane people.

>>689526148

I assume you replied to the wrong post?

>>689526153
Accidentally listed insane people twice, my bad

Why don't you have trust in people who you assume are going to break into your home that you have to so desperately protect yourself from?

Also it doesn't answer my question

Double also, you're wrong on your second point:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

See: 2011 Total: 12,664. Total Firearm: 8583.

Actually 67% of homicides are from firearms based on those numbers

>>689526250
>>689525036
Also:
https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAPONS11-US-Murders-by-Weapon-Type

>>689526148
Er... the constitution is still essentially a law... or collection of laws

>>689526153
They do, in many states

>>689525955
That's what I'm trying to understnd

A bunch of crusty old cunts wrote something, then continually re-wrote it and re-wrote up until 1971.
But now it's set in stone and can never be changed, at least when it comes to the 2nd amendment

>>689526250
That's not a state by state query, that's based on crimes investigated by the FBI. The devil is in the fin print

>>689526364
It's law designed to Govern the Government ,not it's people

>>689525036
This argument is completely invalid. Even if that were true, it doesn't make guns less dangerous, just because there are other means of dying which are more prominent.

>>689527044
Buy a gun

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>>689524194
Our founding fathers built the system and the ideas & culture that our country and its future success was built on.
If not for them America would have never existed and we wouldn't be here today.
It is not within our rights to alter the most fundamental freedoms they gave for us regardless if we agree with them or not.

Also having a heavily armed populace is incredibly important because it provides a serious weight on the scale that opposes Government power.
Without it the Government is much more likely to become a tryannical ruling class and without it resistance to a Government that becomes tyrannical is all but impossible.
The founding fathers knew this well and knew that in order for the American population to preserve its freedoms over time and make sure the Government acts as their representatives rather then their rulers that the society would need to remain as armed and as powerful as possible.

Ignorant people who trust the Government and have no knowledge of history might be ready and willing to give up their personal safety and their ability to provide resistance to their Government but intelligent people won't.

Plus in a free country the laws are made by the people not their "rulers" etc...
I am pretty sure most Americans want their gun rights so the Government has no right to take them away.

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>>689524194

Here's the deal, faggola. Our country is huge. Really huge. Maps that barely fit in your gaping asshole huge.

People that live out in the country need to own weapons. Police presence is nearly non-existent, fucking bears and shit roll up on their property, and if some dickstink decides to rape and torture a family out there, only having weapons at hand will keep them safe.

Our cities, on the other hand, are filled with retarded teenagers waging war over who gets any given block in the CIA's favorite multilevel marketing schemes. Our total lack of decent national healthcare leaves us with tons of broken homeless, and worse, plenty of assholes just functional enough to use /b/ and know it scares them when their weiner feels funny around boys. Obviously the problem is all those sexy men, and not that they themselves are huge faggots.

So while cutting off guns to retards in the cities would be useful for our various national ~~babysitter clubs~~ police agencies, we can't really do anything without completely boning over the people that simply want to go hunting ( which controls the animal populations and keeps our various state park systems healthy you vegan blowhard ) or require them to defend themselves.

So the choice becomes which group to fuck over.

If humans weren't such a bunch of torturous shits, we'd still have our sanitarium systems in place, but it turns out if you fill a building with crazies, mostly people that want to spend all day torturing and raping crazies and claiming they made it all up since, get this, they're crazy, want to work there.

tl;dr: we can change the amendment just fine, but it's not an easy issue.

/ but but but but England doesn't have guns! or australia!

Fuck off. We have states larger than the uk, and australians group together worse than canadians because their country is a combination of desert and deathtrap. Those fucks are lucky to live in an area the size of rhode island.

China, Russia, Germany, Philippines, Laos, Cambodia, Korea to name a few. It's called democide. "Oh that can't happen". It has, it does, and it will again. Fact.

>>689524194
It can be changed but the people must want for it and it must be a huge majority. It wont change because americans love guns. Look at the guns per person and you will understand

Eurofags think banning guns would stop people from killing each other. When you look at a country with strict gun laws like Brazil and see that it just made all the civvies gun free and gave more power to the police, who might as well be a death squad. Also, it doesn't stop the criminals who the laws were trying to stop from getting guns because they're goddamn criminals. They can just get them thru the black market. And most of the already do. Face it liberalfags. Guns don't cause violence. Retards do. Kill all the retards...

>>689527150
I own a gun, what's your point?

>>689524194
Because
>taking the guns away wont stop the shootings and terrorist attacks
>taking guns away is removing your own freedom (really strange coming from the land of freedom)
>changing important parts of the Constitution will only serve as motivation for the easily offended left wing to try and remove freedom of speech
There are probably more reasons, but as i live in a third world country where firearms arent allowed, crimes here are the worst because if people had guns they could easily take the criminals out before, i dunno, he kills 50 people and hurt another 53.

>>689524194
>Why can't the constitution be changed?
>>689524194
It can and is intended to be otherwise it would not have been made a living document

>>689527435
Gun crimes aren't even an issue in the US.
Consider this.

99% of gun crimes are committed in segregated minority communities in Chicago or elsewhere and they are all done using illegal or stolen weapons.
Banning guns would do nothing to stop these crimes.
Another .9% are suicides.

.0000000000000001% of deaths over any decade are from mass shooting (which some believe are media creations) and from actual legal gun owners killing people

Nuke the couple of ghetto gang communities around the US, ban Muslims and increase spending on mental health care for troubled young kids and you'd have like 5 gun deaths a year.

>>689527489
Are you resisting the urge to mass murder people with it?

>>689526079
It was not useless. The murder rate stayed about the same true, although there were few Aussie gun owners before the laws came into effect. Were the law to remain the same then there was not much stopping gun ownership (of assault rifles, handguns, semi-auto carbines) reaching USA levels. If people have those guns, then some of them, a small minority, are going to use them to shoot people who piss them off. Try a mass shooting with a bolt action. I guarantee the casualties will be fewer. Why do you need a gun, besides using it as a tool? Farmers and sporters only need bolt actions and shotguns. (Home defence) What is this, the wild west? Call the cops. If they don't use a gun to rob you (which they won't if the laws are amended properly), then you are on equal footing with them. Lots of thing to use as weapons to defend your house with. The difference is that those things aren't going to be used to also shoot up a school

>>689527773
I give it another ten years before you have no rights at all in your country

>>689525759
yeah, hows that workin' out for ya?

>>689527646
The constitution is not meant to be changed.
The whole value behind it is that it can't be changed so tyrannical Governments can't abuse their power and restrict individual freedoms by simply tossing it in the garbage.

The only way the constitution should ever be altered is if the argument for it is perfectly sound and 95% of the populace agrees to it.

At the very least all Americans should agree that 5 or 6 fag judges elected by Obama or whatever shouldn't have the power to alter it by themselves or without mass citizen approval.

>>689527617
Gay marriage is mostly illegal in US
> Muh freedum

>>689527893
Pretty well, you know all these places that are getting shot up are gun free zones right?

>>689527692
Wow so much truth in this statement. And I'm a black kid from the inner city

>>689527989
No it's not, federal law made it legal

>>689527763

I am, as in there is no urge. I still don't see how that's relevant to my point.

>>689524194
You know what I hate? Wanting to commit a major crime but being unable to because guns are illegal and using a gun would get me in trouble :^(

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>>689527773
>call the cops while you're being beaten and mugged by a gang of thugs
>call the cops when your house gets broken into and you have seconds before they break into your room
>call the cops when your Government becomes tyrannical, starts abusing the citizens and you can't fix it using Democrat means

People who don't understand how an armed populace acts as a counterweight against Government tyranny and corruption are so fucking stupid.

>>689524194
those barbaric religious texts sure aren't getting any changes anytime soon, and times sure have changed since they were written

>>689528125
You made no point

>>689528094
Everywhere in US?
I don't think so.

>>689524194
While the Constitution has changed through amendments, what has not changed is the Bill of Rights. Each of these Rights was meant to address a means by which the tyrannical British Crown either maintained or overstepped its power. One must consider that these rights are provided in an order of prevalence in the mind of the original authors. They certainly felt that the ability to speak against tyranny was most important, but clearly they also felt that being permitted the tools to resist that same tyranny was nearly as near to their hearts. One might suggest that these authors had to think for a bit beyond that before they even considered rights such as fair trials. The reason for this is that tyranny is nearly impossible in the face of an armed populace, as much has been said by the greatest tyrants of our time, including /b/'s beloved Hitler. Gandhi and Marx, who were great men of their time but not tyrants, also seem to agree. Arms are essentially the only thing that maintain our freedom in the face of inevitable tyranny. The rest of the developed world resent this freedom to arms, but keep in mind that the British were the original tyrant we resisted, and the french, Germans, dutch, and Spanish were all imperial societies that depended on being able to enforce their will on an unarmed population of colonies. If we give up our arms, what do we give up next? Already we see social justice warriors who are unable to understand free speech if that speech disagrees with their point of view. If the concern is safety in the face of people who would misuse arms, people should arm and train themselves. Additionally we should stop creating these "Gun free zones," as they are obvious targets for this type of behavior. Also, keep in mind that car accidents, diabetes, smoking and even doctor's messy handwriting kill more people every year than firearms.

>>689524194
basically, to make things simple, at the time, people who knew what we were, and what we were going to be, decided that royalty/monarchy sucks, and tends to relate to the lands that these people's ancestors came from. These wise people made speculation, then created the constitution, which is now under attack by new foreigners and politicians up for sale (go figure).

now for my opinion, I see no reason for the constitution to be changed for a few lousy people to pretend they will exist in america any better than where they or their ancestors came from.

>>689524194
Constitution can totally be changed. Get 38 of the states to agree.

>>689526148
Mate, not op here but ima step in if I may. Britbong with a brother in the state's that I regularly visit. I've driven all over the south and southwest States of your nation I can without doubt say you live so far under the cosh of authority it stopped being funny twenty years ago. I don't mean that in an inflammatory way, and I'm n o t looking for an agreement, but for an . American citizen to tell me, a britbong, that I should live in fear of my government and not capitulate to everything they tell me to do is just too hypocritical for words.
You live in a police state, with lethal force as the primary source of control. If I do something wrong I get a nice man in a tall hat call me a rotten so and so, and then send me on my way.

>>689528196
They are just trying to force that one wold government on the world. It's hard to do that with armed populations

>>689527152
>It is not within our rights to alter the most fundamental freedoms they gave for us regardless if we agree with them or not.
And I would totally agree, except that there are around 30 amendments, that have been enacted right up until very recently (most recently written 1971, most recently ratified 1992).

If what you said was true, then there wouldn't be such thing as amendments.

>The founding fathers knew this well and knew that in order for the American population to preserve its freedoms over time and make sure the Government acts as their representatives rather then their rulers that the society would need to remain as armed and as powerful as possible.
The 2nd amendment protects right as a well organised, regulated militia. Not as a country bumpkin with 25 guns.

>Ignorant people who trust the Government and have no knowledge of history might be ready and willing to give up their personal safety and their ability to provide resistance to their Government but intelligent people won't.
But the government has drones. Nuclear weapons. Good luck fighting back against those.

I don't care if you want to own a gun because you like it. That's cool. Just stop with this 'militia' 'fight back against the gummint' crap. It's a lie and you know it. The government could wipe you out in a heartbeat if they so wanted.

The sooner you can admit it, the sooner we can move on and enact sensible laws.

>Plus in a free country the laws are made by the people not their "rulers" etc...
You may think that, but is it not the government who make the laws?

>>689528343
Dude, they send people to prison in the UK for trolling , take your police state shit and shove it up your ass

>>689528224
Sure I did:

>>689527044

>>689525846
But the fucking point isn't to stop guns. It's to stop murders. You don't really care what people are killed with. You want them to stop dying. Banning guns made you objectively worse at that.

>>689527260
>some dickstink decides to rape and torture a family out there, only having weapons at hand will keep them safe
You're statistically more likely to shoot yourself or your family than an invader.

>we can't really do anything without completely boning over the people that simply want to go hunting
There are plenty of sensible regulations and legislation that could be enacted that could both keep the dumb kids at bay, whilst not fucking over the hunters in the country too much.

The problem is any attempt is blocked because everyone says 'muhh gerns.'

>>689528441
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The devil's in the punctuation.

>>689524194
constitution is the bullshit excuse the nra use when the real reason they don't gun control is because they're representative of gun manufacturers, not owners.

I keep see the term "Tyrannical Government" tossed about here and how the guns are supposed to protect us from it.

If we're not in one now - you haven't been paying attention to current events

So my question is: What's it gonna take for you guys to use them now?

>inb4 "It could be much worse!"

>>689528680
I think black lives matter. And so I want to make sure that the killers of blacks have no guns.
And so I believe no blacks should be allowed to have guns.

>>689528232
Yup, it is legal everywhere
Try doing your homework next time

>>689528680
90% of these people are cucks from other countries that don't have to worry about our gun laws at all

>>689526153
>be me, visiting america
>no citizenship
>get a gun on day 2 of visiting
And thats why im moving out to America if i ever get the chance. Seriously, banning guns wont stop shootings, having more guns also wont stop shootings. I want a gun to protect my own self if needed. We ban all guns and the criminals will be the only armed citizens. "Hurr durr law abiding citizens dont stop mass shootings!" again, i want a gun for my own safety, not others. Thats why im against banning guns.

>>689527260
Ooh, someone's tired.

Op asked a perfectly reasonable question for someone who doesn't live in your society and you had to go and have your period over it.
This is why the rest of the world thinks your a nation of fucking idiots. Nobody can mention your precious guns without you all foaming at the mouth.
And if you think there are any vegans in ausfagland you seriously need to get out more and stop fucking your sister every night. Tool bag.

>>689528824
Also we gave up on the gay shit, them butt pirates are going to pillow bite and there's nothing we can do to stop them from playing a game of butt darts.

>>689528928
Hey guess what, I live in the US. and you don't, jelly much?
hahahahahahahahaha

>>689527617
>>taking the guns away wont stop the shootings and terrorist attacks
Most mass shootings are perpetrated with legally acquired guns and ammunition. They may not stop 100%, but even a reduction of 20% os pretty great.
Terrorist attacks are uncommon to say the least.

>>taking guns away is removing your own freedom (really strange coming from the land of freedom)
Please explain how other than 'muhh sercernd amerndmernt'

>>changing important parts of the Constitution will only serve as motivation for the easily offended left wing to try and remove freedom of speech
But the constitution has literally been changed time and time again. When has free speech ever been attacked? Not to mention that hate speech is legislated against, which technically would be an impingement on your first amendment but everyone just kinda glosses over that one.

>>689528818
> What's it gonna take for you guys to use them now?
Kennedy being president.
Maybe Hillary being president.

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>>689528678
>You're statistically more likely to shoot yourself or your family
Only if you have an IQ of 50 in which case that wouldn't be a huge loss for our society.

>>689528441
I disagree with most of what you've said including the idea that our military wouldn't stand down if 100+ million well armed men gathered in groups and marched.
Also nukes? They are gonna nuke their own country?
I'd also add that our country has been declining in many ways because of deep seated corruption in our Government, an expansion of our Government and indeed tyranny.
Unfortunately resistance to tyranny usually only occurs once things have gotten really, really bad.

>>689527617
>if people had guns they could easily take the criminals out before, i dunno, he kills 50 people and hurt another 53.
How would that guy kill that many people though without access to a gun?

>also comparing third world and first world countries as if they're even comparable.

>>689527646
>It can and is intended to be otherwise it would not have been made a living document
Except when it comes to the second amendment though, right?

It can and should be changed.... except when conservative idiots disagree and then it can't ever be changed?

>>689529102
> How would that guy kill that many people though without access to a gun?
With a bomb, or a bat, or a knife, or a car, or a chain. Like they do in every country that bans guns. And more of them would die than do in any mass shooting where any of the would-be victims are armed with a gun.

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>>689528196
Says someone posting on /b/? Let's be honest it's all neck beard here. I live in the boonies, I've chased blackbear off my porch with a wooden spoon and a pan. We hill folk love our guns and we still call the police. Because the only people who don't are modern anarchist assburgs. Your like poor white trash that vote Republican when Democrats help there stupid ass get roads, food, school and shelter that otherwise would be unavailable.

>>689529167
You can change the second amendment.
Get 38 of the 50 states to agree, and it's done.

>>689529102
>How would that guy kill that many people though without access to a gun?
How did the Boston bomber do it?
Also Akmed the gay bar killer had an explosive vest on but he was killed before he could detonate it.

>>689529040
Mass shooting account for .000000000000000000000000001% of deaths over any decade.
Fix our immigration system and improve health care for young people and that number will drop even further.

>>689527951
>The constitution is not meant to be changed.
But it has been.

Time and time and time again.
By the reasoning that the constitution should never change, we should still have slaves, prohibition, and women and black people should not be allowed to vote

>>689529167
The first 10 amendments are off the table, always have been that way

>>689528343
>theoretical scenario, just for you anon
>UK suffers from modern currency failure and by some fucked up means, cannot trade.
>now starving people (you), completely hungry, in the streets whining.
>each member of your government, most likely least impacted by a tragedy foreseen and not dealt with, watches and determines how to twist and pull your people until each agenda is met
>you, your children, and all of your family are starving, in a drastic situation, are being prayed upon by leaders that see opportunity, and cannot/will not do a damn thing about it until it all blows over

sound familiar?

>>689528462
Er.. dude...they don't.
Stop reading the national enquirer whilst waiting for your turn on your sister.
Remember boyo, you're an undereducated, untravelled, naive Muppet with no real grasp on how the world works outside of Fox news and the cartoon network. Never try and tell an european anything about culture, civilisation or world affairs, you'll just look a cunt. Again.

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>>689527260
the countries are closer in size than you think fyi

>>689528892
don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

>>689528037
Really? Pray tell how Florida, Virginia and Colorado are gun free zones?

>>689529399
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11627180/Five-internet-trolls-a-day-convicted-in-UK-as-figures-show-ten-fold-increase.html

>>689528196
>Not realising your gov is already those things.
Only in 3rd-wordd shit holes do govs need to fight using guns. The US has willingly embraced the complete corruption of its goverment to profit. You've lubed up for them, of course they'll let you keep your guns

>>689524194
The constitution can be changed, with amendments. It's just REALLY hard to do to prevent frivolous changes.

>>689529509
Schools are gun free zones, Bars in Florida are gun free zones ....dude your a moron

>>689525036
So americans are truly retarded, cool

>>689524194
What good is a constitution if you can change it however you see fit?

>>689529521
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29678989

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>>689529346
Yeah and it shouldn't be.
Also the original writers didn't really want slavery but were forced to put it in because of the Southern idiots and women shouldn't vote.

>>689529286
Some bears won't be scared off by pots and pans.
Have fun getting killed when your pots don't work and you don't have a gun or bear spray.
Also I am fine with the state handling "roads" but they do an awful jobs with schools and I don't need them to provide me food because I can buy my own since I am not some lazy faggot who depends on handouts to survive.

>>689529399
> Never try and tell an european anything about culture, civilisation or world affairs, you'll just look a cunt.
One upon a time there was a tea party in a British colony across a pond. Nice try, but we're not giving up our guns for the feels of the Europoors. We'll talk about whatever we wish whenever we wish with whoever we wish. That's the FIRST amendment.

>>689528236
>tyranny is nearly impossible in the face of an armed populace
Maybe in 1789

>>689529633
You do know if trump wins, Russia's going to invade your shit country

>>689529086
>our military wouldn't stand down if 100+ million well armed men gathered in groups and marched.
TOP KEK

100+ million well armed men gathered in groups and marched.
Nigga you guys couldn't even manage to take over a Bird Sanctuary in Oregon

>GET REAL.