>>689156312
In

because I'm not some pleb that forms his opinions from the sun and daily mail.

Also I have a okay grasp of how economies and trade works.

Also not a massive closet racist

>>689156312
Going to vote for OUT

>>689156312
Ben Garrison is a racist tub thumper who would suck Alex Jones' cock in a heartbeat and has Trump footage on his phone for bath time. [/thread]

>>689156312
England should leave, Scotland should stay.
UK is basically London, and that's quite unfair to the other countries, especially since Scotland got oil.

England would probably do well on their own if they ally more with USA, but regarding OP's picture they got the same problems.

IN

>>689156562
this

>>689156884
That oil isn't worth shit at the moment. And it tapped by English.

>>689156312
The world has significantly changed over the past 120 years. Empires and colonies have diminished in reality by their idea is sill going strong. Countries with ambition to expand have changed their ways from conquering lands or other countries with troops and soldiers, and replaced that with economical occupation. Economy, wealth, money and power go hand in hand, you might have the man power,but if you dont have the economical strength to mobilize those troops, feed them, create wars for them, sustain them, then they are as good as not being there at all. Companies these days would prefer to sell themselves to other bigger companies in order to survive, other who wish to compete and not sell out, are left alone to fight a battle not only with its competitors but with governments who are promoting "free market" idea and that corporates should dominate while smaller, mid size companies and family companies need to be taken out.
Power comes with unity. The Uk, Germany, or any other European country will not be better off alone. The EU will suffer from having the UK leave, but it will not suffer as much as the UK itself will suffer. Being isolated is not the way to go in this current world of ours.

Im not sure but hasnt Scotland said they will votale again for independence if UK votes OUT because they want to stay in the EU?

>>689156312
Personally i think we should reform EU instead of leaving it.

>>689157051
>And it tapped by English
:(

>>689156562
>I'm not some pleb
>makes racism the issue

pick one

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>>689157264
Every government since the last referendum has talked about reforming the EU. It doesn't happen.

The EU only "reforms" in one direction, taking more power from the nation state and handing it to the EU level. The end goal has always been a united states of europe and that isn't going to change.

>>689157327
>mentioning racism is the same as making it the entire issue

Okay.

>>689157117
I'm happy to team up with other countries, but it has to be beneficial. Seeing the guilt-trip countries like France and Germany are undergoing since WW2, teaming up with them means being weaker in the mid- and long-term.

The immediate short-term economic advantages shouldn't fool us into staying with these very culturally sick people.

>>689157597
Okay.

>>689156562
>Terrorists
They're already here.

>Close the borders
We don't have open borders.

>Point system
Just because you make it harder to get in does not make every citizen a fucking combat medic. A lot of English lower class are horrible, inbred and if they were any thicker, they'd set - and too pride to work shit jobs. We're fucked if we start kicking out European workers.

Is immigration to UK really because of EU? I thought most people who immigrate to UK are from outside EU, Middle east, Africa and former colonies. Will it really help to leave EU?

>>689156562
Laughable. First of all it's a horrendously shit trade deal. It's more about protectionism than it is about trade. We're a net importer from the EU and extra-EU exports are are biggest growing export market. We're also the only country that has greater trade outside the EU than inside. It fundamentally doesn't make sense for us to be unable to negotiate our own trade deals with our fastest growing markets.

Also race? You really are a moronic cuck. EU immigration policy is in itself demonstrably racist. We give infinitely higher preference to Europeans than we do to the rest of the worlds population which happen to be mostly brown. Leaving the EU is actually the least racist option.

Also you're a massive fucking cuck.

>>689157318
Fuck lol.

I'm high as fuck, let it ride.

>>689156312
get the hell out before its too late britain, love from norway

>>689157832
>We don't have open borders

If a country within the Unions gives away free passports to every lowlife in the third word, we do de facto have open borders.

Under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, if Britain votes to leave, it will have two years to negotiate trade agreements with the remaining 27 countries in the EU. The free trade and the free market will still be a thing, UK will just be free from Berlin's rule. UK should vote leave.

t. european, non-Brit, MSc in economics

>>689156562
>In

>Also I have a okay grasp of how economies and trade works.

No, you're just fucking retarded or you're payed shill.

I raped a muslim male yesterday. I say keep them coming, I am more than happy to keep punishing them. Muslims turn me on, that moment when you violate them in the worst way possible. I hope he kills himself from the shame.

>>689156312
Swissfag here. Get the fuck out of this soviet style mess, Great Britain. It's perfectly possible to make business with the EUSSR while not having to jump in the volcano with them.

>>689156562
Caring about not letting your country turn into a third world shithole = racist. Western civilization is doomed.

>>689158360
indeed

>>689158176
Very much this. Don't be idiots, Britbongs. Don't let yourself be scared into staying in Yurup by a bunch of rich bureaucrats.

>>689156562
>not a pleb
>plays the racism card

pick 1

>leaving will cause house prices to drop

OUT

As a European I'll ask all inbred brits to vote OUT. I was in Newcastle upon Tyne and studied. UK really is a shit hole... In addition, I hope we can kick out the southern Europe mudslime eu-niggers. Fucking South Europe is cancer and should be cut away.

>>689157911
>Cuck
Any opinion instantly invalid well done man

>>689158421
Leftists and people who support this idea are doomed. Don't lose hope, anon, life always finds a way. And the nihilists that promote political correctness will eradicate themselves before they can kill our civilization as a whole.

>>689156312
i'm voting out for thee chaos that will ensue afterwords

>>689158421
>>689158524
The only people that get mad about the "race card" are racists.

Hilarious.

Don't do it Britians!
I'm from Poland and we are fucked without u in EU XDDD

>>689158080
Yeh it's that easy, that's why they're floating over the sea on a fucking refrigerator door. Every country has a weak link in the offices for citizenship, you can get a passport from anywhere if you have the money. It's not stopping terrorism either, they are born here.

>>689158643
you can't get out of having your pathetic cuck argument shot down that easily i'm afraid.

>>689158788
>The only people that get mad about the "race card" are racists.

The only people who use the race card are nihilists and useful idiots. Not as hilarious as it is pathetic.

>>689158621
Why did you choose to go to Newcastle? Could you not afford to live in the actual nice parts of the UK? Where are you from?

>>689158803
Problem is, the crooks and cucks in charge are afraid to address the problem. If the EU breaks up slowly, we'll finally get a say in how we want to handle our own destiny again.

>>689158968
Obviously this guy wasn't smart enough to go study in the nice places, like Oxbridge.

>>689158968
You don't go to uni for the scenery you numb cunt. Bradford University is one of the country's best, and it's possibly the worst place to live.

>>689158824
Lol
>>689158919
Then what does that make the people who accuse others of it?

I mean, you can't lie and say that most people are voting out for economic reasons. Most out'ers are just dumb and racist pure and simple. Why do you think retard-newspapers like the sun promote leaving?
Why the salt?
We're staying. It's gonna happen

>>689159318
>Bradford University is one of the country's best
fucking lol

no, but he's judging the UK based on the fact that he knowingly chose a shitty place to go and live, probably because it was cheaper.

>>689159376
why is leaving racist? we'd actually have an immigration policy that treats Europeans and non-Europeans equally. sounds pretty non-racist to me.

>>689159376
>Then what does that make the people who accuse others of it?

Manipulators. Wanting to live in a culture that more or less unified doesn't make you a racist. At all.

People don't want uncontrolled immigration from people that'll live off benefits: it doesn't make them racist at all. If you think so, it means you are either stupid, or just plain dishonest.

People who defend immigration are, quite interestingly, working for the rich 1% who need cheap work force. The racism argument is simply a scarecrow supposed to force people into buying into the constitution of a new slave-like class in the West, that'll be chained to dead end jobs against which no social reform will be able to do anything (look at France, Germany, the US, for instance).

Maybe the UK will stay in Europe, but then it'll have sold its soul to muh moneh, because of fear of being called racist. Good luck with that.

>>689159609
Cheaper? I imagine he was there when it was 3.6k per year. Standard housing for students is the same all across the country, 320~pcm.

>>689159696
Anyone who shouts "racism" at every street corner is subject to a social psychosis, it's nothing to be taken seriously, if you want a rational discussion.

Germany here, we're sick of your shit, fuck off already, you'll probably be fine.

>>689156312
If we leave then the EU will collapse. The entire continent will be carnage, it'll be brilliant. All the fat fucks in the EU parliament will get absolutely shat on by their home countries.

Voting to leave will be our revenge against these arseholes. Ruin their lives like they have tried to ruin ours, hit them back twice as hard as they hit us.

>>689160303
>>689160303
RACISM

>>689160377
>Germany here, we're sick of your shit

Likewise. Good luck with your muslim majority in two generations, if that.

>>689160466
You do that.

>>689159187

UK IS NOT PART OF THE SCHENGEN AREA YOU FUCKING INVALID

it's cute you think your vote matters

>>689160641
And?

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>>689156312
>American conservatives praise capitalism yet ignore that Global Business and regional trade and business groups like the EU and NAFTA are a part of capitalism.

>>689160377
Why couldn't you dumb Jerry fucks win WWII, and we wouldn't have this terrorism problem now.

>>689160707

You are a tool

>>689156640
/threading your own post get outta here

>>689160466
You stupid fucking cunt. Britain will collapse outside the EU.

OUT
FUCKING OUT

Out of everyone in this thread saying one or the other, are you actually going to vote?

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>>689156312
OUT
U
T

>>689160823
At least I'm voting to leave the EU.

>>689160739
>implying the EU actually benefits England's economy

>>689160739
Implying the EU is helping UKs Capitalism instead of hamstringing it

I would leave EU and NATO if m country had a chance

voting leave

As EU member the British have:

a) pushed for eastern expansion
b) pushed for freedom of movement for eastern european member states
c)blocked every effort to make the EU more democratic

they now want to leave because of these very things.

The result of the referendum will be determined by decades of British politicians using the EU as a scape goat and tool against their own population. Those politicians will continue to fuck you regardless of your EU membership.

>>689156562
In, people don't understand how much they rely on eu. As far as pakis and southern eu immigration is a problem. This isn't the solution for it.

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>>689160377
>>689160377
>Germany here, we're sick of your shit, fuck off already, you'll probably be fine

>tfw we have a massive trade deficit with you
>tfw our growth has been like 2-3x higher for years now
>tfw you have merkel and are getting literally cucked by muslims at an unprecedented rate
>tfw your currency is about to go down the shitter

>>689160739
NAFTA, GATT , TPP etc, are not capitalism,
they are crony capitalistic agreements that only work with socialism at the local (national) level.
In a true capitalist, constitutional system these things would never come into being.

Capitalism in its pure form allows the laborer to keep what he earned from his own labor.
In a soclialist, crony capitalist society an overgrown government steals everything from the laborer, doles some chickenfeed to the poor so the poor become footsoldiers in the government's social armies waging war against the middle class and the rest of the money gets doled out to crony capitalists.
You have just learned that crony capitalists cannot function without a government that they own that steal from the middle class/blue collar class and gives to and protects the rich.

Its in. The people voting out are fucking idiots. We will be financially better off in than out. The only people voting out are the UKIP racists.

>>689157515
This, all the """"conspiracy theories"""" preidcted thismsince the 80s.

>>689161002
Can the UK self sustain? I doubt it being an island.

This is the same as southern US states threatening to succeed. Only one of them could survive without the Federal governments nipples and that is TX.

Is UK TX?

>>689160968

Go for it you'll get 40-45% max

>>689156312
As a non-bong i realy hope they will leave EU. They always had the be the special kid in class. Time for them to learn special is a different name for retarded.

>>689157879
Yeah, you're right. Most immigrants are from outside.

Reminder for what will happen if we stay

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/leaked-uk-plan-to-open-doors-for-1m-turks-n085h225w

>>689161366
i feel the same. it would be catastrophical for them to actually leave, so i say let them. the brits are cunts anyways

>>689161231
NAFTA is a fucking free trade agreement which means the government cant tax imports and exports to those nations.

NAFTA is a literal example of pure capitalism you retarded fuck.

>>689157042
why?

>>689161319
Might suffice.

>>689158562
Yeah but you'll have 4,500 pounds less earnings.

>>689161315
self-sustain? our exports outside of the EU outweighs our exports inside the EU. We're the only EU country that has an economy like that. We're also hamstringed by the fact that we can't negotiate our own trade deals with our biggest export market because we're in the EU. The EU has negotiated hardly any decent trade deals with non-EU countries because it's all about rampant protectionism. We're actually being dragged down because they're trying to protect they're own shitty economies.

The EU is an economic suicide pact. It never benefited the Brits and has been a huge drag on them and a very one sided deal for them. I hope the vote Out, and wouldn't blame them.

>>689157879
you don't understand, the EU wants the UK to receive immigrants that are coming from the middle east, other european immigrants are welcome because they don't just leech off the country

>>689161566
wow, did that come straight out of your ass?

>>689161430
>http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/leaked-uk-plan-to-open-doors-for-1m-turks-n085h225w

fucking hell

>>689161619
Once you are out of the EU they can create agreements with outer countries to hike up your import prices and deny your exports. They will do it to because it would help the EU as a whole even if it destroys UKs economy.

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>>689158672
>life always finds a way
it will without the humans when we're long gone and nothing will be left

>>689158968
Newcastle is one of the nice parts. Every other city is an industrialised polluted shithole filled with poor scum. Newcastle has parks and country walks everywhere. Its a nice looking city, there's lots of Victorian and medieval buildings and the uni campus is lovely. Anyone saying otherwise is lying because people are always racist against northerners. Only difference is Newcastle isn't like the rest of the north.

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>>689161430
>thetimes
>Times Newspapers, since 1981 a subsidiary of News UK, itself wholly owned by the News Corp group headed by Rupert Murdoch.

>Headed by Rupert Murdoch...

>>689161517
NAFTA allows for unrestricted free trade,
which would constitute absolute capitalism indeed, however in a constitutional society the trade with other, less free societies or societies not adhering to fair trade practices would be subject to tariffs and rightfully so. The parliament could impose these tariffs on the basis of currency manipulation, less environmental regulation etc.
This is the very problem we have today.
Socialism for the masses (EU, china and increasingly the US) and capitalism for the ultra rich in these countries.
The working man gets taxed into a position where he can no longer compete with the ultra rich and thus the society becomes the antithesis of classical capitalism
You resorting to name calling somehow implies I do not understand this , while it is obvious you didn't grasp the depth of my post.

>>689161850
they're going to create agreements with countries that they don't trade with because they're protectionist cucks to try and harm the UK, a country that these countries actually DO trade with? how the fuck? Also that's not how trade works btw

>>689158672
What the fuck is PC?

Can someone give me a definition or example?

Let's not forget turkey is gonna join the EU with EU passports which means those fuckers can live here

>>689157911
this.


Vote Leave.

>>689156312
please get out, makes it easier for the rest of us to abandon this failed concept.
as a german i know we'll be the last to abandon it, so others, please get out cause we can't.

>>689161461
>catastrophical

>>689162037
So you are saying NAFTA is not free trade because counties not part of it can still be taxed?

>>689161961
Cheer up, mate. Nietzsche foretold us 100 years ago what the modern age would produce, and he was right. He said that the slaves and nihilists who are now in charge will destroy themselves, and they sure are. Be patient, have a good heart and everything will be fine.

>>689161976
>Newcastle isn't like the rest of the North
You're talking utter shite.

>racist against Northerner's
If you were any thicker you'd set

>>689162215
They do already.

>>689161231

you are american, right? you must be american

>>689160466
>>689160466
You are a fucking retard. The EU will not collapse without us, we are basically doomed without the EU. The EU has not tried to ruin our lives at all, and you're utterly fucking retarded for talking about vengeance. You know nothing at all about the situation, you're a fucking idiot.

>>689162435
No because here he referred to parliament when talking about NAFTA.

>>689161983
In other words, somebody mentioned Turkey joining the EU and Turkey would obviously prefer visa-free travel.

Media always described everything is a sinister plan to achieve the worst possible consequence, because it's vague enough to be technically correct. You should be able to read between the lines though.

>>689161983
well, that's gonna seal the deal

>>689161215
as a german I can agree, Führer Merkel and leftist fucktards are cancer

>>689161319
45% could win it.

from what are you guys scared, does it matter if in or out? your shitty lifes wont get better either-way

>>689160756
>being this retarded

If the Nazis had won terrorism would be worse. You think nobody would rebel against the fucking Nazis? Congratulations on being the most fucking stupid person in the world.

>>689162323
I don't know if I can, I m young, 18, but I already know that humanity is fucked anyway and we just don't know exactly when everything is going to go wrong.
My kids might just live a hell-like life unlike my nice and calm life... It hurts anon

>>689162037
Entrepreneur here, there are hardly business models that pay on a small level. Most markets are occupied by the big players. At the same time governmental institutions regulate the shit out of everybody and refuse to give concessions and shit. I liv in a Eu bordertown where small businesses go to shit because the city coulsnt come up with a parking and traffic concept for 40 years. Still people pretend its all good. A pub owner raised a beach bar at a local artificial lake, the green government shut it down cause it could stress the birds. No shit. Western Europe has to die to see if we got what it takes to raise again.

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>>689156562

>>689160968
Well you're fucking stupid.

>>689161983
Its like all those Romanians that were swarming to the UK. The whole handful of them.

>>689161002
It does, massively. You're fucking stupid.

>>689162311
No I am saying that the only reason NAFTA exists is because the government has too much power over the people.
NAFTA is not alone, the corporations are empowered through TPP to actually bring national governments to court when they pass legislation that is detrimental to corporate interests.
Unrestricted international capitalism can only exist because it feeds on socialist national governments.

everyone is fed up with the Britain nagging about everything...
Proverbs 21:19: Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife...

so please, PLEASE: GET LOST

>>689161200
Fucking this.

>>689162118
PC is the new, post-christian form of morality, one that was produced in the high spheres of inter-nation exchanges and which has leaked down in everyday speech and thought, which is why it's become so nauseatingly toxic.

It's a set of transcendent rules based on the reactionary value of humanism, which, as part of the common, everyday speech, is leading us as a society to work against our own interest, paradoxically.

PC is when you say "this arguments is racist/intolerant/oppressive, therefore it must be banned/ignored/censored". As you can see, it's simply a way to censor the opinions that go against the received doxa.

>>689158464

Yeah let yourself be convinced by Farage and Bojo instead, fuuuck off moron.

>>689162630
You're lacking the 'brain strength' to even converse rationally with me.

>>689162833
Wrong, unrestricted international capitalism is the ultimate goal of capitalism. Where a producer can get material and workers and sell their product anywhere in the world without barriers or taxes which are levied by government.

Go talk to an AnCap and you will learn about true capitalism.

>>689161749
What? Have you read nothing about this? You shouldn't really vote given you know nothing at all about how much worse off we'll be.

>>689162804

Yup, plus the UK rebate via the EU is enormous. Funny the brexitfags never mention that huh?

>>689162337
Fuck off and die prick

>>689163106
You really shouldn't be given a vote if you believe every bit of fear mongering pushed through your letterbox. It's called due diligence.

Explain to me why £4500 less earnings?

>>689162250
Germany will be the last only beacuse is itself the problem of Europe. Germany as a state are probably secretely directed by a council of nostalgic nazis.

>>689162889
I call shit raciest/intolerant/oppressive all the time. 4chan is full of it, but I don't think it should be banned or censored yet I and my speech is called PC and has been told should be banned.

So does that mean that these Anti-PC people who say my speech should be banned are acutely PC?

>>689163204
Here comes the racism and hatred! You Southern daft arse.

>>689163046
No I'm being completely rational. Anyone who says 'brain strength' is obviously the dumb one. You are literally retarded for thinking anything at all would be better if the Nazis won. You are the retard that brought up the Nazis in the first place, and now you think you're the rational one? Kill yourself you fucking retard.

>>689162667
I know the feeling, bro. I'm 32 and I went through this pessimism. The fact is that pessimism leads to nothing. True, you can give up (as I did at some point), but that'll make it all pointless. The most important thing in life is not that you win or lose, it's that you do what you can to express yourself, and hence give meaning to your existence. This is the essence of a meaningful life, and believe me: victors may write history, but that means nothing if it doesn't resonate with something within yourself that tells you you're doing it right. I'm sure you'll do fine, anon.

>>689162435
>>689162509
Indeed,
I am dutch and raised a good little socialist.
However I got educated

>>689156312
Out. The cucks in the EU are planning to let millions of Turks into Europe. Fuck that.

>>689162509

its just the way he uses the notions of 'socialism' and 'crony capitalism' as opposed to 'true capitalism' just reeks of americana bullshit

all the agreements he mentions are exactly what developed international capitalism is about

also capitalism is practicaly the only system that simply is what it is, the logic of ''stalinism isnt true communism/catholicism isnt true christianity etc...'' dosent work with capitalism, every form of capitalism is ''true capitalism'', and the notion of there being a right and proper form of it that would somehow favour the workers of all people is just fucking retarded

especialy in todays capitalism the average person in developed countries is more and more relevant to the system as merely a debitor, tied down by credit and other forms of debt, less and less as a producer, or even as a consumer, same goes even for nations and states

>>689163518
>Dutch
>Raised socialist
>"Got Educated"
Now a governmental capitalist.

American here (fuck yeah!)

Anyway, apart from throwing insults at each other, can anyone give some cogent arguments (like >>689157117 ) for and against remaining in the EU?

>>689162721
Voting for the 1% to become the .1% because "otherwise its' racist" isn't something that can be deemed intelligent. It can only be called pathological, and more specifically neurotic. Have a nice life living with that.

>>689157515

Why is Ireland going as well

>>689156312

I'm not UKish, but here's my take.

It's better for the UK economy to stay in, period. There simply isn't any form of logical, honest argument that can be made to the contrary.

From a social and political standpoint, out, member states give up way too much sovereignty to the EU for it to be acceptable.

You would have a hard time telling any country over here to try to amalgamate our culture with our neighbours and share our leadership with cultures that simply aren't even that similar. For that reason alone I would cast my vote for the out campaign. The EU needs to go through some fundamental political changes with regards to national sovereignty to make enough sense.

>>689162950
see >>689163811

>>689163479
Werst monkey, do you need a hug? Nazis were a valid point at the time of writing. Can't you keep up? I'm not even posting at global level yet.

>>689163511
thanks, I ll try not to think too much about it. Luckily I was born intelligent (not being a zeta fag) so i ll try and get the most out of it, find a good job a nice girlfriend/wife etc...

>>689156562
Out because of stupid fuckers like you, you know jack shit dickwad

>>689160739
>implying the way to have "free" trade is to regulate the unholy fuck out of it.

>>689163727
In a world of global business where manufacturing is has almost fully moved to the 3rd world a Regional economic agreement levels the playing field and make sure that all members have a decent economy to prevent mass immigration from one country if its solo economy failed.

IE the EU prevents whats happening in Venezuela where that solo countries economy crashed and now we have mass migration into Brazil.

>>689156312
What retard puts there name on such an offensive piece of opinion doodling? Ben Garrison. That's who.

>>689163727
Well for starters that guys argument is bullshit. Talking about how being 'isolated' is not the way to go but seems completely oblivious to the fact that the EU is actually isolationism in practice. Hardly any trade deals with countries outside the EU and rampant protectionism, causing those of us who are resilient enough to a global market to end up paying more for our goods and services and hamstringing our trade with countries globally

>>689162459
LoL, just LoL. You deluded fuck. GTFO of Britain when we win Brexit

>>689164101
Isn't that contradictory?

If the EU is more homogeneous, they there's no real difference between countries withing the EU, so manufacturing would be better off going outside the EU, and drawing workers to those countries.

Then you get a US scenario where the manufacturing base has left and the blue collar class gets decimated. The government then says "well, let's educate everyone with a college degree" and you have the white collar class overloaded and fighting for those jobs too.

Doesn't it make sense for countries to compete against each other for manufacturing?

>>689163372
>I call shit raciest/intolerant/oppressive all the time

You must be a fun person to live with.

>4chan is full of it, but I don't think it should be banned or censored yet I and my speech is called PC and has been told should be banned.

There is a difference of magnitude between the chan and mainstream media. Your racialist and moral discourse is everywhere in the mainstream media. Don't complain if some islands of alternative thought, and, imo, true critical thinking, remain impervious to it.

>So does that mean that these Anti-PC people who say my speech should be banned are acutely PC?

I don't know, ask them. I for one believe that no speech at all should be banned, even the most obnoxious ones, however the fact is that those who scream louder, today, are those who "are right". Hysteria has become the norm for expressing thoughts, and that's a problem when what needs to be discussed requires detailed scrutiny.

Meanwhile, some people benefit from the confusion, and they are those who already have the best hands in the game.

>>689163351
i don't think so, we are the major payer in the eu, yet in contrast to the other memberstates, we (the people of germany) were never asked. iun no instance was there ever an election to get into the eu, get the euro, ect. that chancelor who got us the euro got kicked out of office in the next election, yet his decisions were kept.
the only chance the german people have to get out of the eu is for the eu to destroy itself.

>>689162323

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not too familiar with Nietzsche.

>>689163992
Sure, don't let yourself be taken down by modern zealots and their farce of a moral system, because better times are ahead - now we are in the eye of the ideological storm, but idiots, hate-mongers and generally destructive people are being destroyed by the monster they've created. Good luck anon.

OUT

they lied to us in the 70's when they said it was 'just about trade' (look at what it's become) and the EU are trying to pull the ultimate long con on us where they get us to agree to give up all our rights and freedoms.

I don't want to live in a country that's 'managed' by a bunch of career politicians in Brussels that I never voted for and can't get rid of.

>>689164822
>the only chance the german people have to get out of the eu is for the eu to destroy itself.
And goddamit you guys are trying.

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I've voted remain. Largely due to economic/stability factors, but also because we need to work together for the betterment of all. We're not the powerhouse we were 100+ years ago, and pretending that we can just split off and everything will suddenly be sunshine and roses is a twisted fantasy which only seems to be promoted by those who stand to directly benefit politically/financially, and extremely stupid people.

>>689163727

Here's a fairly balanced summary of the economic arguments for each side.

Worth noting that the majority of eminent economists agree that Brexit is a bad idea. When you can get that many economists to agree on something it's generally a good sign that it's correct.

>>689163511

what youre talking about is largely impossible, not giving up is a point in itself, one must simply accept meaninglessnes, absurdity and all forms of lack, strain and disfunction, and soldier on, or if that cant be achieved an hero

a real advice to someone whos 18 is to let go of his own halfassed notions about life and meaning and concentrate on developing skill, building tolerance trough continuous conscious effort, as pointless as it may seem, to train oneself in focus and willpower, all trough conscious experience, in which all things must be accepted as they manifest in that moment, without judgment or aversion, and dealt with accordingly

in this way a human develops, becomes stronger and more capable, and thats one of the few things that matter in life, othervise its just a prolonged collapse into helplessnes, and might as well be ended

meaniglessnes is just a basic quality of reality, and it quite literaly means nothing, positive or negative, all meaning is fabrication

>>689165498

You must be great at parties

Im planning on killing david cameron with a few friends keep an eye out

>>689164882
Nietzsche is a thinker that glorifies life (which he also calls might, or power). Interestingly, he very strongly criticizes socialism and generally the industrial age for destroying positive particularities and individual strength to the benefit of what he calls the weak (which take the figures of the priest, the tyrant, and the slave in his texts). His stance is that once the slaves (or weak) have brought their nihilism to power, they will become victims to it, because basically they'll saw the branch on which they're sitting. The Übermensch, which is the new man, the one who has mastered his will to power, will come after nihilism has destructed everything, including itself.

Contrary to what you can read here and there about Nietzsche, the will to power is not the will to dominate (on the contrary, actually, because the will to dominate is precisely what the tyrant, priest and slave aim to achieve). The will to power is the will to persevere in life by expressing you own power to the maximum of its ability (which never does harm others in anyway, again, because it's not a conquest or an ego trip). I have a few references if you're interested (although in French, if you read it).

>>689165782

that depends largely on the substances being consumed at the particular party

Like it matters, either way we're screwed. Probably gonna vote in just cause I'm still unsure about our ability to negotiate worthwhile trade deals out of the EU.

>>689165924

Haha. Seriously, you're exactly the person I would end up having a conversation with.

>>689166006

Does your carer have to accompany you to the polling station?

>>689160856
I know right! Couldn't have existed before the Muslim Union now could it. Silly britbongs not subscribing to anarchy and cultural suicide. Fools! The lot of ya!

>>689165498
>let go of his own halfassed notions about life and meaning and concentrate on developing skill

How are these things contradictory? The idea is that you can develop an skill and find it meaningful both to humanity and to yourself is quite feasible, and a good, if not sometimes difficult, thing to achieve.

>meaniglessnes is just a basic quality of reality

We will have to strongly disagree on this.

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>>689157515

>>689165828
I read a bit about the Ubermensch idea some years ago but can't remember much of it now. What did he say about slaves and nihilists destroying themselves, and what happens next?

>>689156312

when nigel farage, boris johnson and micheal gove are the face of leave, you should be real worried.

>>689156312
Out, obviously.

>>689165828

the problem there is that theres no operative practice described, just philosophical notions

like how does one 'master his will to power'?

what is that technicaly, is it a skill, a capacity, a attitude, a habit or mental operation?

what is this power, power to what? what is it that one uses it for? is it just a question of personal inclination or is it something meta like the magical notion impersonal of will with a capital w? its all so vague

>>689166093
> > >meaniglessnes is just a basic quality of reality
>We will have to strongly disagree on this.

Not the other anon, but why exactly? There is literally no meaning that anyone can ascribe to life which isn't subjective.

>>689166624

Perhaps I'm being tautological but it seems like you're only finding it vague because you don't understand the usage of the terms in this context?

Not claiming that I understand either, but it would seem pointless to me to read the abstract of a neuroscience paper then declare that "this all seems a bit wishy-washy, a bunch of these words make no sense" without being aware of their specialised meanings within that field.

>>689166242

Slaves, tyrants, and priests all do have something in common, which is that they negate life. The tyrant and the priest need morals to dominate their subjects, and morality goes against life because life has no transcendental set of rules (no God, if you will: it is its own god); the slave is moved by resentment towards his master and aims to dominate him in order to belittle his master, in a move that will belittle him as well.

They are all three in a dynamics by which they diminish the power to act of themselves and others, and this is crucially against life itself, which always aims at enhancing its power to act. This is why they are nihilists: they reduce life to their worldview, they negate its being.

Once nihilism has destroyed everything including itself, as is logically bound to happen, then the Übermensch will rise, which Nietzsche doesn't describe in many details except for the fact that he is the one who has mastered his will to power, i.e. his ability to live accordingly the imperative of life, which is to enhance its power to act.

Sorry if it's a bit abrupt, it's hard to explain such a complex thought in a few lines.

>>689166624
Well, philosophy isn't science. Science creates functions, philosophy creates concepts.

Interestingly, Nietzsche is the one thinker who has argued against the notion of truth: his idea is that truth isn't the purpose of philosophy.

Creating concepts means to have a certain relationship with reality, which isn't devised by the notion of truth.

If I were to speculate on the notion of "will to power", I'd say that it's basically any skill that allows to express your power to the maximum of its ability. It could be something like passion, but in a way that doesn't destroy or consume you.

E.g. you can make art, science, philosophy with passion, in a way that allows you to be fulfilled. You can work in a factory and be fulfilled in life. There is no operative principle in this notion of will to power, precisely because it's not a function. You can think of it as something in between art and science, although different from them both.

>>689166427
When Cameron and 90% of politicians and media are all scare mongering to stay that is equally worrying.

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>ITT: a bunch of 16yr old guys talking politics
>mfw

your generation will bring us the next world war.

>>689156562
Out
because I value democracy

>>689158621
>As a European I'll ask all inbred brits to vote OUT. I was in Newcastle upon Tyne and studied.
>uses our education system and is still rude

Fucking hate mainlanders

>>689161231
>not capitalism,
>they are crony capitalism

No true Scotsman...

>>689164403

Here here !

>>689167957
> basing a judgement of a generation on a bunch of 16yr old guys talking politics on 4chan
> herp derp these millenials haha am I right

>>689167957
>everyone is allowed to vote
>thinks its a bad thing that even the less knowledgeable are discussing the vote gaining over time a better knowledge

Fucking hate cunts like you, discussing politics is always good, even on stupid forums like this, you'll see opposing veiws and be challenged so you can be certain how you want to vote when the vote comes around, as you'll be exposed to more information from a vareity of sources through people linking their arguments to websites so you can inform your decision and not just end up basing your vote off the first thing you hear and stubbornly sticking to it, fuck off you condescending prick

>>689162037
You should try out for the Olympics. Your mental gymnastics are top tier.

>>689168379

I agree with this guy. 4chan, for all it's faults, lacks the filter-bubble of social media and doesn't let you cherry pick what you're exposed to.

Hell, one of the only reasons I come here is because I *know* my views will be challenged, so I can better assess them.

>>689167118

its just that 'negating life' is a basic human tendency which stems directly from being alive, from life itself, life negates life all the time

>>689166625
>There is literally no meaning that anyone can ascribe to life which isn't subjective.

I think you are exactly pointing at the essence of the problem. The "meaning of life" refers to something that presupposes a global truth standard, something valid for everybody everywhere.

The idea of subjectivity is something that's valid for yourself only, at one point in time. Ergo, if you come up with an idea like "the subjective meaning of life", you won't be making sense.

So, the meaning of life is neither objective nor subjective, it can't be. It's an experience, or a creation, if you want to use a word. The meaning of life exists, but it's neither something to be found nor something to be enlightened by: it's not a revelation. The meaning of life, in Nietzsche's terms, is the ability to express your power (physical, mental, anything), as much as you can. And this isn't given in advance, which is the paradox about it: it has to be created, by your self for yourself.

I can't tell you what the meaning of life is to you, the only very humble advice I can give you is the following: try to live your life in accordance with your values. Whatever you chose to do, have a heart. We're all in this together after all.

>>689163372
>>>689162889 #
>I call shit raciest/intolerant/oppressive all the time.
You should fuck off back to /tumblr/

>>689168379
ever since the stormfags rolled all over us, any political discussion on 4chan has been eliminated. yep over the years of watching the way those "discussions" here decline into a rightwingcirclejerk, I stopped arguing. anything you say that doesn't fit into their little minds makes you a jew, a leftist or whatever... there is no discussion.

>>689168861
>life negates life all the time

Locally yes, but not as a whole. As a whole, life is perpetually expanding.

>>689156562
>Also not a massive closet racist

Nor am I, I'm a xenophobic cultural supremacist. That's why I'm voting out

>>689168959

well, OP pic is ben garrison so... that kind of automaticaly sets a setting

I'll probably flip a coin in the polling station

ITT: eurofags that now see how fucked they are try to get Brittain to stay and get fucked as well

>>689156312
IN

But we need to reform the EU, make it the EUROPEAN union, not the middleastern cuckfest.

>>689168379
underated post

>>689169658
Then you mean OUT til it gets sorted right? You cant expect them to be cucked like the rest while you figure out a way to fix the EU

>>689168883

isnt it more that every organism functions largely based on emotional states and instinctive tendencies and so things have what is said to be meaning based on how they correlate to this?

In, but out will get more votes and once Britain leaves the EU, shit will go down and then ISIS will invade Europe soon after

better screencap my post cos this will def happen

>>689169841
Can't really reform it from the outside tbh

>>689169149
exactly, hence everyone who doesn't agree to that bs must be an ebil commie... I gave up on this years ago. seriously before the stormfags came here, political discussions were at least more fun sometimes... now threads about politics are just pure cancer.

>>689170203

Yeah, I've this creeping feeling that Out is going to get it. Possibly this is just because most Out voters are loud idiots.

Basically it falls to the silent majority that gave us a Tory government, to save us from the clusterfuck that is Brexit.

I think you're massively overestimating ISIS though, and underestimating the likelihood of full-blown world war prompted by the vacuum left by a collapsed EU. Just another reason to stay IMO.

>>689156562

These are not real reasons. This is you broadly stating that you have reasons, but that you aren't intelligent enough to actually articulate them.

>>689169865
Interesting point. If you say "meaning is instinct" or "meaning is qualia/emotions", you have to deal with the notion of instinct/emotions.

The problem is that instincts and emotions are most often taken to be relational factors that allow animals (and men) to adapt to their environment and sexual partners.

So if you want to define the notions of instincts/emotions, you'll have to recourse to the notion of environment, so you'll end up saying funny things like "the meaning of life is my surroundings", which have been said before actually (by empiricists for example).

Same with emotions, which pertain to your mental environment.

In this sense, instincts and emotions can't be explanations, because they themselves depend on other elements to be defined.

>>689168883

I understand subjectivity to be a more generalised concept, encapsulating an individual's experience/opinion/emotion/etc.

That aside, if the MOL is just maximising the expression of individual power then you might as well just call it 'living'.

>>689156312
Check this out guys, all the answers are here
https://youtu.be/9DsaAwvoegw

>>689170203
Why don't we go to Afghanistan, get ourselves settled into a village, claim on their benefits, start enforcing the British Bill of Rights on their dirt paths! There'll be a chippy on every rock face. Flying carpets. So much sand for castles.

LET'S GO ALLLL-READYYYYYY

>>689170729
>I think you're massively overestimating ISIS though, and underestimating the likelihood of full-blown world war prompted by the vacuum left by a collapsed EU

shht, you're onto something reasonable.

>>689163872
We don't really give up much sovereignty.

The European Convention of Human Rights is not binding on Parliament.

Parliament still controls a number of policy areas, such as education, defence, and foreign policy.

The UK can veto some legislation.

And, last but not least, the UK can simply leave the EU and regain all its powers.

The UK has lent out its sovereignty, pooled it, but not surrendered it.

>>689170405
We'll start our own elite club... The British Empire.

>>689158176

As a german, i will sing on this faboulous day an disney song : "LET IT GO"

Sorry Mates, take the Queen and your pounds and leave. You were never a really member of the EU. You always picked up the good things from the membership. Leave England. Its no los. Its only sad.

>>689171221
>subjectivity to be a more generalised concept

In philosophy, subjectivity appears with Descartes and the Cogito, so it's not an empirical or scientific/psychological notion that regroups things like experience/opinions/emotion strictly speaking.

>then you might as well just call it 'living'.

Yeah, which is kind of what Nietzsche does. He wouldn't be too picky on this, I think, seeing that his life was the life of a vagrant.

>>689158795
Be nice Poland! ;-) greetings from your german neighbor :D

>>689162950
And Ian Duncan Smith

He makes it more professional-seeming

>>689171510
Tyranny always leads to war, Europe is probably no exception.

>>689171178

that is a point but its not what i said

what i meant was that things are percieved as meaningfull depending on how they correlate with our existing emotional or other such internal functioning

if a thing 'means nothing' to someone thats realy just a way to say he dont care about it

but in the same way if a thing 'has meaning' to someone, its just that it matters to him on some psychological level, emotional attachment, interpersonal singnificance, identification, or even some neurotic compensation etc...

in this sense 'meaninglesness' means something to people precisely because it relates to emotional experience of ones life or reality, but this is a oximoron, 'meaniglesnes' means nothing at all

>>689157515
This is true, I concede that.

>>689171510

The problem is that you can't really use this line of reasoning to dissuade people from voting out because the kind of person that votes out has a boner for being English and wants a righteous war of cultural purification as much as ISIS does.

>>689171869
10/10cringe. Leave the humour to us, OK? If I need any caffeine shampoo though, I'll give Germany a call.

>>689171508
What has this got to do with my post

If you're voting out, that's great - you do you. OP asked if you were voting in or out, there's no need to be so triggered by my opinion.

so, if uk leaves the eu and nortern ireland wants to stay, would that lead to a reunited ireland?

>>689172520
I just forgot to delete your number. I'm voting IN.

>>689156312
GTFO and pave the way for the rest of us, UK.

>>689161215

:D the history will show us, who is the fool and who not.

This is just a crisis. Well find a way to solve our problems. The only question is: will there a place in the future for england in the eu or not.

Its not germanys fault, that england had so many colonies in the past. And their former servants wants to come home to theyre capital.

>>689172623
NI can't remain or leave independently, you are in the UK, so you will do as UK does.

>>689172204
Agreed, anon. Meaning can be both relative and general.

I suppose that for many people, the meaninglessness of life is an emotional response to a feeling of loneliness and purposelessness, perhaps. But as a great guy (Pascal) said, we are nothing compared to God (by which he means eternity and infinity), but at the same time we're infinite compared to nothingness.

>>689172945
the point uis that they could alwas regregate fron the uk and join ireland, the door has been open for a while now...

>>689172623
No. Northern Ireland are part of the UK vote. If they were unhappy with the outcome, they'd first have to have a referendum to vote to leave the UK (like Scotland did), and then apply to join the EU if it succeeds.

>>689173201
*segregate

>>689172454
sadly true and you find folks of the same mindset everywhere... not just in england.

>>689172071

You're joking, right? IDS is an utter joke. He left his position in the cabinet declaring that he couldn't stand by whilst disabled rights were being trampled on, after a good six years of trampling on disabled rights.

>>689162547
I doubt it. The jocks got that in their independence referendum and they remained part of the UK. I fail to see how a non-majority vote would still succeed.

>>689173864
Well David Cameron is hardly less of a joke, and you'd rather take his word?