>>688927860
In Soviet Russia 5 year plans you

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>>688927860
this is now a verticals thread

Actually any kind of socialism well established would make life much better, the problem is the difficulty to reach that point and that most of the people can't get out of their comforts to make things right for once, so basically most of people do not deserve neither they can be useful to reach to that point.
But yeah, probably, maybe not in 5 years but every political system ends up dead.

>the problem is the difficulty to reach that point

that's it, I really like comunism in theory but I cannot see the world working together if it's not to conquer Mars

>>688928908
Exactly, and if it was conquered the burgois would fight for who's property it would be. It can't be implemented unless individualism and narcissism were somehow deleted.
... or at least those who were like that, purged :^)

>>688928581
>get cancer

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you see comrad together us ci\umminists can destroy capitalist pigs. for our great stae has something they dont MILLIONS of lives to throw away in a mass invasion

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>>688929592

>>688927860
Society moves towards socialism, it always has. First you have a lot of people getting their own water, then you regulate the water supply so that everyone has clean tested water (in theory lul). Or education, which is now more or less socialized the same way, or our food, transportation, practically everything is, and will become more socialized. In the future it will be necessity, you think everyone can have their own cars forever? But make it a part of the government and call it what it is and everyone freaks out, I don't get it.

>>688929550
why the fuck is there so much hate on people saying that, then?

>>688930335
Saying what

>>688930333
Yeah, that's right, but at the end, will billions of people work all together just because they care about others and the world itself? Cause I find it quite hard to believe

>>688930447
That comunism is not doable right now

>>688930651
I do and yes I believe others do as well. I don't think scientists are scientists because muh paychecks. But almost a quarter of our workers in the US anyway are part of transportation, once that's automatized, there will be a lot of people looking for jobs. The important thing would be that one day people will be getting jobs not because they need it to survive, but because working is a great healthy thing. Anyone who works hard knows it's a reward in and of itself.

>>688929783
>already got it

>>688930333
At one point only the minority with enough money to pay it will be the ones with their own cars but that doesn't mean that people will start beliveing in socialism, not after all this years of propaganda of hurr durr stulin commies demon muh freedom 'murica.

>>688930762
It's not necessary, people are so afraid of socialism that even if communism was possible they wouldn't want it. It's easier to fear something and use it as a political weapon than to admit that it is gone.

>>688931214
Maybe not, I think eventually it will become necessary. I hope not, but just seems more likely to me.

>>688931028
>everything automatized
>work that's left will need knowledge from workers

I can't see +10 billion people (or how many there will be) able to work in that world

>>688931661
There won't. We will have to embrace a socialized culture that helps artists and entertainers and other types of work so that we don't develop into some Brave New World style era where we keep large portions of the population retarded in the corner somewhere or something while the smart rich people fuck on drugs all day.

>>688931539
It will indeed be necessary, but I don't think that people will do it anyway, it's been years since anyone stood up and fought for something out of the political diplomatic bullshit. People had more guts before.

>>688931028
This is actually what often seduces people into wealth redistribution policies - they look at examples of hardworking, homogeneous peoples who are typically native to the nation, and see how they enjoy a certain amount of success with wealth redistribution. Because they are all raised in peaceful areas and in abundance they are instilled with the minds that tend to make these things work, and a sense of community among themselves from their similarities.

It is always when you expand to large groups of varying people, many of whom do not come from peace and abundance, that the whole thing begins to come crashing down, hence why wealth redistribution remains one of the most reliable, fastest acting nation wreckers in recorded history, right next to not being able to stop aggressive outsiders from flooding in.

>>688932101
They create hastags now

#PrayForFrance

>>688931984
Do you actually believe that's ever gonna happen?
I mean, just look at how many people you would have to educate during more than 2-4 generations

With the exception of the United States all advanced economies are socialist democracies, this is the way forward for Western societies at the very least (including Russia and it's sphere of influence as well as Latin America) and likely for East Asia as well... It's the rest of the world that's having trouble charting a course. The current economic woes have more to do with the capitalist side of the equation (boom/bust cycles) as well as demographic shifts and cultural/political tensions... Add to this the incoming global environmental crisis (already conflict largely revolves around resources and economic bases) and you have plenty of reasons to explain the current status quo. Having said that any system humanity can devise in the future will not be complete without the acknowledgement of the social duties of the state as basic rights. The welfare system is the only sane choice and can only be dispensed with succesfully under verylimited and exceptional circumstances aka America.

>>688932142
This is xenophobia, your claims are false from my perspective. I know of no nation that has fallen from wealth distribution nor any study that shows any change from small to large groups, these are effectively pulled from your ass.

Sure, terrorism is hard on societies, but I believe people similar to yourself who are effectively terrorized as the much larger threat to the society as a whole.

>>688932587
I do actually, I think there is an exponential trend currently in our societal education. Two to four generations from now will be unrecognizable by today's politics, I truly believe. Because of necessity.

>>688933128
Yeah, they will all be dumbfucks, that's all I see in kids (17 year olds and so) nowadays

>>688933291
17 year olds are dumbfucks? Wow you're a real clever one yourself aren't ya.

>>688933503
Most of them are or act like inmature retards

>>688933963
Seriously didn't get that? They are immature, they're 17, all 17 years old are immature... But I hear that eventually 17 year olds grow up, maybe not, I guess the 17 year olds of today are how they will always be, not like they have any more time ahead of them to mature or anything.

>>688927860
hav eyou ever gone so far as to do much like?

>>688933963
Yeah, Cato was making the exact same point a couple of thousand years ago... New generations will always appear as dumb fucks to the ones preceediing...

>>688932587
actually the key to instituting socialism is the restriction of education.

ok actual economistfag here

no, not in five years, but it almost certainly would eventually. Could seriously take centuries though

communist countries are necessarily authoritarian because of what we economists call the "collective action problem". In layman's terms, it means that if everybody has an equal result guaranteed then nobody is motivated to work hard (or at all).

There are only two possible ways to "solve" the collective action problem, ie get people to work in this situaiton. The first (which far-left hippie idiots cite constantly) is social cohesion; if you're in a tightly-knit social group it's possible to use social pressure to get everybody to pitch in. However, this only works on an extremely small scale - think villages. Just doesn't work on a national level lol.

The other way is brute fucking force. You don't work enough? Don't receive rations/go to gulag. Somebody has to enforce that policy of making people work, and it cannot be done democratically. You might have heard of something called "game theory", it's a math tool invented by John Nash and used by economists - and anyway the Nash equilibrium of trying to enforce work democratically is that, well, it won't fucking happen. You can kind of imagine that everybody would just be a lazy asshole and not want to.

As a result, communist regimes actually require dictatorship. You need a big man at the top who can force people to work. That's a big reason why every communist country of the 20th century was authoritarian. Of course, dictatorship is in the long run very unstable.

To avoid confusion: "social democracy" is NOT communism and that's NOT what I'm talking about here. Social democracy is a capitalist system with elements of state intervention in selected parts of the economy, whereas communism is a non-market, non-capitalist system where those who aren't in the political elite get approximately equal outcomes no matter what.

>>688935618
to clarify: I mean to enforce work democratically in a communist situation, in that 5th paragraph

>>688935136
It obviously doesn't have to be like that, you only want that to be the case. That has happened before, but that does not mean that socialism is the restriction of education. It's possible to be the opposite of that.

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>>688927860
5 years would be lucky, I doubt it'd last more than three months.

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>>688928908
>I really like comunism in theory
Oh yeah, I love mass murder too!

>>688935618
This is bullshit, the same bullshit that thinks in a capitalist society, everyone is a rational agent and makes decisions on a logical basis. In reality these are simply not facts like you are presenting them.

Call me a hippy but I don't work simply for my paycheck and if I was guaranteed room and board and food for life I would still be doing my job, I think if you honestly looked at yourself someday you would think similarly.

>>688936528
to clarify, I mean I and the majority of workers that have people that rely on them on a daily basis think similarly, enough for a society to function someday in the future.

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>>688935618

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>>688936248
Not knowing the Nazi Party was Fascist (ie right wing)

>>688936906
>national SOCIALIST party
In the name :^)

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Daily reminder that communism killed millions upon millions.

>>688937173
Which forms of government havn't exactly?

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>>688935136
No, it isn't, you can have a highly educated society, one the system will very much benefit from, provided it's efforts are one way or another focused in consuming surplus production. This isn't the tricky part, most human beings will show a natural tendenccy to improve their material standard of living. The problem is choice. A small minority will eschew materialism for any number of reasons ("spirituality" tending to be the common thread, though other forms of idealism can be dangerous as well) these people will unequivocally seek power to further their agenda and will destabilize the system. Once people will no longer settle for a gradual improvement of their economic fortune you have disruption. It might appear education contributes to this effect but, on the contrary, the educated are often the more resistant to change as they well realize the consequences of revolution and benefit the most from status quo.

>>688936528
>Call me a hippy but I don't work simply for my paycheck and if I was guaranteed room and board and food for life I would still be doing my job
You're a hippy and an idiot. You'd be a lazy NEET jerking off to loli all day and playing vidya. Why work when everything is taken care of for you? Why work a shitty job that you hate? Work for 90% of people just plain sucks, it's the nature of the world. That's why capitalism works, if you don't work, you starve. Problem solved!

>>688937453
This.

>>688936528
lol dude I never claimed that people were perfectly rational agents. The analysis I presented does not rely on that notion and in fact repudiates it - rational agents wouldn't respond to social pressure, because they don't give a fuck about their/other peoples' emotions.

Honestly most economists these days don't believe that people are even perfectly rational agents (look up behavioural economics if you're interested).

You're certainly correct that people are motivated more than by a cash sum reward, but you're forgetting that the cash sum reward is a big part of it. Not everybody has a job where they're doing it for intrinsic motivation. Think of farmers are factory workers, for instance, the former of which actually provides very strong historical evidence for the collective action problem.

Mao introduced forced collectivized farming in China, just like how I described - everybody gets the same. Productivity plummeted to less than a quarter of levels present in Imperial China. Eventually when Deng Xiaoping was in power some peasants got fed up of starving and went back to the old ways - private fucking property. Their output skyrocketed incredibly, Deng took notice and began introducing market reforms, and eventually you get modern China in the global capitalist economy.

>>688937588
>Capitalism
>Works

>>688935618
This is an oversimplification, socialist democracies in Europe do not work in this way. You caqn have a safety net welfare system without discouraging peoplem from doing better for themselves.

>>688937588
I like my job and people rely on me. I understand that capitalism has destroyed you, but put yourself in an imaginary person with empathy in a world that you have a job with people you care about doing something that makes you feel accomplished. You probably can't relate.

Capitalism will fail it's practically inevitable at this point.

>>688938074
dude did you even read the last paragraph
>troll/10

>>688938190
Yeah, sure, that's why China, Cuba and almost all socialist economies from the 20th century are turning to capitalism reforms...

Dunno if retard or just self deluded...

>>688938190
>put yourself in an imaginary person with empathy
Well there's your problem. Empathy is a negative thing to have in this world! It leads to poor decision making. Even this leftist psychologist agrees:

http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/474588/why-empathy-is-a-bad-thing/?utm_source=SFFB

>>688938074
to respond more substantially, just in case you were serious:

social democracies in Europe are successful in some ways because they provide equal INPUTS to productivity, not equal results. If everybody gets free education and healthcare, well, you still have to go work hard in the market to actually put food on the table.

When you impose equal results is when people stop giving a fuck

>>688938644
Edgy, my empathy wouldn't extend to you killing yourself if you were wondering.

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>must read for any communist

>>688939029
Some of us more rational folk understand that emotional nonsense, such as what you're expressing, leads to less than optimal lives. Go read some Ayn Rand, I recommend The Virtue of Selfishness.

>>688938586
Not saying it's right around the corner, but yes, in my opinion it is inevitable. Not sure how deluded that is but definitely not retarded.

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>>688938074
Do read this, the social democracies are far worse than most people think.

>>688938190
Human beings are corrupt and lazy. We will almost always seek the easiest way to accomplish things (or not accomplishing them at all), even, and specially, if those easy ways involve doing things that satisfy our most animal needs and wishes. That's in that way, unless we have good reasons to choose the harder and moral/ethical ways of accomplishing things.

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>>688939357
>Go read some Ayn Rand
My fucking sides, you must have just started reading. You probably know everything after Ayn Rand spelled it out for you.

>>688939388
why do you think it's inevitable? You haven't exactly presented an argument.

>>688939598
Speak for yourself faggot

>>688939607
Let me guess, you recommend Marx?
>REED MARX, HE RITE GOOD WORDS THAT SHOW RICH PEEPLE BAD

>>688939721
Look at the world around you, faggot. Get the fuck out of your bubble of delusion. Even better, take a honest look, without any masks or filters, at yourself, at your inner being,

>>688939668
I don't think it sustainable for the future to deal with crises. It's currently being tested with climate change, of course only time will tell the outcome, but I believe it is off to a bad start. The future will have bigger problems if we survive past our current ones, I think we will adapt to something that is more capable of adapting.

>>688939598
This anon speaks truth.

>>688939801
I recommend reading a hundred books before you think you know what to tell people to read faggot.

Not, I'm going to guess, 7?

>>688937588
We have the technology and resources to organize human society such that we can avoid unrewarding jobs in difficult conditions. Paying a premium to those willing to take on the few unavoidable tasks would both resolve any gaps while creating an escape valve for those looking for economic improvement at all costs. Think of nations as organisms, each capable of delivering any number of man hours worth in varying qualities. If you guarantee an acceptable minimum standard of living that allows people enough discretionary income to mantain them occupied you could vanish unemployment by simply reducing the duration of shifts sio that everyone will have a job. It's not just re-distribution of wealth but, more importantly, labor. The wage per hour should be the minimum that it's required to mantain the country's living standard while mantaining all employed. "But capitalism..." is not an excuse, profitability and the income gap have both exceeded near exponentially since the end of the cold war. You can tax profit by a very reasonable margin to support the system and still make it worthwhile to investors. It's grred run amok that prevents this, corporations get away with not paying living wages by transfering the costs to taxpayers, and it is citizens through government that must bear the social consequences of corporations setting wages too low to mantain an harmonius society.

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>>688938190
Yes comrade!

>>688928328
Lmao lost

>>688940434
Hit that enter button a couple of times and you would be my new best friend. Some really good stuff in here that I haven't thought much about.

>>688940138
I'd actually argue that's more of a political than an economic problem. See, people inherently value short-term over long-term, so even in an alternative system that used some economic mechanism other than markets people could still pursue short-term gain, either individually or collectively.

The real issue, in my mind, is that democracy is only as good as its electorate - so if we want a political system that combats climate change (e.g. levy carbon taxes, fund green energy research) we either need to educate people better or have some extra technocratic element in the decision-making system.

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>>688940434
Yeah, central planning works great!

>>688940434
I like the key idea here of reducing working-week hours so as to reduce unemployment. Maintains a healthy, competitive market while creating genuine jobs.

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>>688927860
https://youtu.be/Wln6lNTxVpY

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>>688940434
>>688940928
Nice samefagging.

>We have the technology and resources to organize human society such that we can avoid unrewarding jobs in difficult conditions.
Oh we have robots that can clean shitty bathrooms? Nope. We need janitors. What about garbage men? Maids? Other servile jobs? They all need to be done, and they are not worth more than minimum wage. Hell, I'd say people in those jobs should earn less.

>Think of nations as organisms
Cool, you're the cancer then!

> If you guarantee an acceptable minimum standard of living that allows people enough discretionary income to mantain them occupied
Good god you're economically illiterate! Do you know how much universal basic income costs??? Look at the US. ~300 million people @ ~$10k / year = $3 TRILLION a year!!! That's a LOW estimate! How the fuck can the US afford that!?

>It's not just re-distribution of wealth
Oh here we go... "take the evil rich people's money! They don't deserve it, -I- do!!"

You're jealous of others' success in life. That's it. Go work a real job and earn your keep, you'll find it rewarding.

>>688941007
It's an economic problem if it's a problem that threatens the society, like a fucking comet or climate change. Once the society agrees that the funds are to be used for threats to the society, we would use that to end homelessness, joblessness if possible, and assuring education for everyone. Those would become things that would be in that society's best interests.

The electorate as you call it is what I was referring to being tested right now, seeing as most people in the US don't believe in climate change (some states have banned the term) I still stand by saying that I don't think the results of it's test will come out favorably.

>>688939721
Even machines, even fucking electrons and photons seek the easiest path available.

>>688941485
It wasn't samefagging but alright.

>>688940434
Fuck you commie. Those evil 'corporations' have proven to be the most productive organizing principal ever devised.

>>688941994
You have a lot in common with photons and electrons my autistic friend?

Did you discover shrooms recently or something?

>>688941485
The problem, fellow Anon, is that these people believe that money grows on trees. They don't understand that, in order to create riches, you need to invest riches. There's no "surplus money", that you can magically get out of nowhere and use however you want to.

>>688942264
I'd say the problem is that these retards are just jealous of their betters in life.

>>688942168
Even humans, in case you didn't get it.
Everything in nature tends to do the least effort.

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>>688942264
>There's no "surplus money", that you can magically get out of nowhere and use however you want to.
You do know that's basically how our society works these days now right? Money is just fabric, it's only worth what we make say it's worth. If you didn't walk into the conversation mid way, you would know were talking futuristic communistic societies, not this year's election.

>>688941840
A problem that threatens society is intrinsically neither political nor economic. A comet is not a social problem, it's a physical phenomenon.

The problem I was referring to was specifically our lack of a response to climate change. That's a social problem, and the way you yourself described it indicates it's political rather than economic - you're talking about society making ad hoc decisions on a case-by-case basis, not a fundamental feature of market economies.

>>688942697
wealth exists irrespective of money, and you do have to work to create it.

If you have a big fucking house with your own private giraffe and a squad of trained pygmy limo drivers you have wealth even though none of those items include cash.

>>688942589
I got what you meant, I don't agree with it.

If I did what was easiest, I would let my dog die and my parents fend for themselves in retirement, when you grow up and have responsibilities you might think understand that people are motivated by things other than themselves, like what they have accomplished.

>>688942458
Some of them are just economically illiterate, and live in a bubble of delusion in which human beings are some kind of "My Little Pony" good and friendly creatures, that only do bad things due to the "bad society". They don't understand that, it isn't the society that is responsible for the bad things in the world, it's the human beings who are responsible for the bad things in society that the human beings themselves established.

>>688942943
this

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>>688942943
That wealth exists, but has no quantifiable value without money or some system of exchange. The value of the pygmies and giraffes are not inherent; they are assigned. Modern money just goes one step further and does away with the pygmies and giraffes entirely.

>>688942943
>>688943295
The anon that you were originally commenting on was saying that communistic society is not so much of a distribution of the wealth as it is the distribution of the work the the reward. If everyone worked equal amounts, everyone would have more surplus. That's what you are arguing against, not some bullshit, they didn't help me make it so it's not theirs strawman.

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>>688942108
We will kill them all, friend. All of them.

>>688943863
Just kill yourself, fuckin faggot.

>>688943479
You're economically illiterate.

>>688942229
Another libertarian who fails basic logic. Any charity they engage in is piecemeal and arbitrary, and bound up with their own prejudices and preconceptions of who is "deserving" of it. A social safety net administered by the state will be far more efficient, far more effective, and far less discriminatory.

>>688943224

I think Equestria is a Communist Dictatorship.

>>688943479
Yep, because in the past, the larger and more warlike human groups didn't had any more wealth than the smaller and defenseless groups, right? Their territories, their crops, their animals, were of no value, until someone had the idea of creating money, right?

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>>688944019

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>>688945546
This sound like butthurt.

>>688944812
>Any charity they engage in is piecemeal and arbitrary, and bound up with their own prejudices and preconceptions of who is "deserving" of it
Well... yeah! Why would I give to any cause I didn't believe in? I give to cancer charities, not to religious nonsense charities. Free will!

>A social safety net administered by the state will be far more efficient, far more effective, and far less discriminatory.
The government is ALWAYS Far LESS efficient, far LESS effective, and WAY more discriminatory. What reality are you living in???

>>688944812
The governamental benefits are also based in the prejudices of the political class and of the people who put the political class in charge of the power. What can be a right to you, could be considered nothing more than "burgois privilege" or "ideological or political fanaticism".

tl;dr A social safety net administered by the state will have the values of the people in charge of the state, and will be applied only towards who this political group thinks that is "deserving".

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>>688946262

>>688941485
Wasn't samefagging but whatever...

>Shitty jobs
I made it a point some works are worth a premium, this is it. Now, cleaning shitty toilets may not look like it but this is one of those problems that are complex on a number of levels, starting with you should not leave them shitty in the first place, the number of people that can somehow function in civilized society without having been properly potty trained is just amazing, so you need education and a culture of having easily accesible cleaning suplies (people won't just take home) to even begin making these dignified jobs. Then there's technologies to automate much of the process which are in fact available (google that) the work in mass transit places could be reduced to something like "sanitary engineers" using hazmat protection and effectively getting paid living wages if you only had a culture of not making a fucking mess and actually dealing with your own shit... If you walk into a bar and make a mess throwing up you should be fined unles it's a medical condition. What about small business? Any group of adults should be able to handle keeping a restroom clean ffs. Think I'm wrong? If you opose illegal immigration you should be willing to either take a job cleaning toilets or fucking find ways not to have others deal directly with the nastiness of your own body...

>ad hominem
fuck you

>universal basic income
I was talking minimum wage, nice strawman, still that idea is actually feasible in countries not the USA to be cont

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>>688946655
Yeah, if you say....

>>688946308
>>688946503
I know the system I'm advocating for isn't perfect (which is more than I can say for some of my libertarian friends). The most salient example of socialism to me is the idea of health insurance. It is designed such that the risk of health problems is spread out among a large number of policy holders. Why not widen the pool of the insured to every citizen, maximizing the resources available while minimizing risk?

>>688947210
>the number of people that can somehow function in civilized society without having been properly potty trained is just amazing
>you only had a culture of not making a fucking mess and actually dealing with your own shit
>Any group of adults should be able to handle keeping a restroom clean ffs.
From what I understand, people just do that because: 1. Tragedy of the commons. They have no incentive not to leave public toilets in good condition. 2. They leave messes just to fuck with the cleaning staff. Just a clarification.

>If you walk into a bar and make a mess throwing up you should be fined unles it's a medical condition
Ah the leftist compulsion to have government interfere with -everything- in life. Shall we make it illegal to think bad thoughts too?

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>>688947865
>The most salient example of socialism to me is the idea of health insurance.
Pic is so very related. Why do you leftists want to make inefficient government in charge of everything in life? Do you not know the horror stories of public healthcare in other nations? Talk to any Canadian! I heard of one friend who had to wait -2 days- in the ER to get stitches for a laceration on his arm.

>>688948521
So, the mexicunts inmigrants don't deserve this.

>>688947210
>redistribution
If you're not paying living wages but your employees keep showing up for work then who's paying the difference? Taxpayers have no duty to subsidize corporate profits and what your shareholders take home when society is picking up part of the cost isn't theirs anymore than what you pay on suply chains. If someone is selling products or services to you you don't expect hodden to bear liability for their workers then why should government/citizens?

It isn't being jealous, it's about what's fair, business puts a lot of costs on others such as environmental damage, infrastructure, , depletion of resources, etc. And we haven't even gotten to debt, futures or derivatives... No man, it's not unlike the nuclear energy scam, we will have to spend money/resources in handling waste for as long as our species endures on the planet, yet corporations involved walk away and pay their shareholders as if nuclear was one of t6he cheapest forms of energy... All based on either "we'll find a hole big enough to dump it all in" (lie) or we'll figure out a solution sometime in the future (which is wishful thinking) your great-grandsons will be paying to handle waste that was produced in the 1960's... Nope, when corporations leave costs behind, not least not paying their employees enough the government has to pick up the bill, they're responsiblle, and to think otherwise is to be a stooge...

>>688948521
Don't you know the horror stories from the only industrialized nation on the planet that doesn't have socialized healthcare? I guarantee those anecdotes amount to a statistical trend, while yours tend to be anomalies.

>>688949274
From lazy cucks without health insurance. They get what's coming to them! Here's some reading for that "perfect" socialized system you seem to worship.

http://www.cato.org/publications/catos-letter/five-myths-socialized-medicine

>>688945423
You ignored most of what I said and spent your time on a strawman instead. Would you like me to articulate the point further, or have you already decided that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?

>>688944542
And you're a poophead.

>>688949679
Well, you've used the word "cuck," so I suppose you've won this round. Bleh. I even said my system wasn't perfect. I wish you'd admit the same.

>>688947950
Ok granted I may have gotten carried away with the vomit stuff, but still that's a cost others shouldn't have to bear... And education needs incentives? You mean other than fucking minimizing the chances you'll ever get the runs and your only viable alternative to soiling your pants is entering a toilet so disgusting even a creeper dressed as a woman would be too nauseated to do any raping... ffs look at the Japanese... The Aztecs had indoor plumbing and in a culture looking for any excuse to turn you into a bloody human sacrifice you better bet people were fucking clean about their business... But how about some basic decency? If you're spraying projectile diarrea all over a restroom's walls you should at the very least be the one cleaning it up...

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>>688950167
Capitalism will ALWAYS triumph over socialism. It works far better, it's just, and it's results are the best. I hope you learned your lesson in our exchange.

>>688950458
The problem is most Americans mistake merchantilism for capitalism... Capitalism has rules, the invisible hand only works when it's gently nudged away from abuses...

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>>688937087
Yeah and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be run democratically by the people. It says so in the name.

>>688948521
Health is a right on all other civilized nations ffs even Mexico makes it a right through universal healthcare... Only Americans would call socialism being forced to buy insurance... those horror stories are wildly exagerated, you do realize in countries like Canada you also have the option to get coverage or pay out of pocket same as in the US? I'm willing to bet premiums are cheaper...

>>688950458
in the year 1789, would we say monarchism would always triumph over republicanism?

>>688932883
Man I wish, I wasnt sleep deprived and on a phone, because you seem sincere and I have got answers for you.

Not the Anon you were replying btw. Next time though

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>>688951445
Pesky Constitution limiting federal power makes no mention of health care as a right.

Look you fucking retard, you want socialized healthcare? Do it through the fucking states where it belongs. And don't start on any pathetic 'general welfare clause' excuse - that shit does not fly.

>>688952452
Could you name a constitution currently in force that has healthcare as an explicit right?
Hell, can you name a country that defines all legal rights by its constitution?
Furthermore, can you name a means by which the admission of healthcare as a right infringes on any constitutional clauses?

>>688952789
Not joking. South Africa