Hmm. Really makes you think.

>>688502924
America was never 'great' in as far as anything particular. The idea of America IS great. What America represented, and what it can represent, ARE great. The issue is, people like Trump don't understand what that value is. It's about values that DON'T include fear, bigotry, and isolationism. Sure, we don't represent them all the time, but that doesn't mean we should abandon them. We use them as things to return to when we realize how bad things have gotten. America's IDEA was, is and will be great, so long as someone like Trump doesn't corrupt it ultimately. Other countries now represent similar values, and because of various factors, some do it better than we do, but we have more resources to have a significant effect beyond our borders.

>>688502924
80s and 90s were sweet for America. Generally due our insanely-huge advantage in regards to microcomputers and microprocessors.

>>688502924
America has always had its ups and downs just like every other country. Trump is literally just memeing his way into the presidency by saying we are down right now and he can bring us up.

Yeah America fucking sucks.

We should just keep on our current course and maybe Hispanics can finally make America great for once. White people failed.

>>688503357
The idea of taking land from brown people and trailing the rest of the west in terms of personal liberty?

>>688502924
'America' was started by savages and hobos who departed from Europe due to being dirt poor and who exterminated native Americans (actual Americans) in the process of setting up their state.

There are tons of mythology built to cover up the fact that America is a very young, very fat, very stupid nation with dreadful cards in it's history like Civil War, slavery, gangs and dreadful poverty.

But then again - what else would you expect from the descendants of savages?

>>688502924
Go back to Canada faggot

>>688503601

Important thing to remember is that no candidate for President (who wasn't running for re-election) has ever won any other way.

>>688503439
So basically Reagan, the first Bush and Clinton? Basically back when New York was a fucking crime nest, cocaine then heroine were the drugs of choice, Iran-Contras, Desert Storm, the AIDS epidemic... This was America at its best?

>>688503357
Fair enough, that's a good answer

MURICA

>>688503696
sjw cuck detected

>>688503923
War and Slavery are never in our past. The longest lasting powerhouse civilization is Rome, and it was built on War & Slavery.

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>>688503923

Actually it was the best and brightest who were able to immigrate to America, and that became a huge problem for Europe.

For example, the Swedish government launched a propaganda campaign to try to stop Swedes from emigrating to America. That's how bad they wanted to leave Europe and Europeans governments were desperate for them to stay.

>>688502924

America was "great" in the sense that it was powerful militarily, economically, and morally (mostly) following the win in WWII. In a lot of ways that began to erode almost immediately following that win. From a military standpoint they tried to go back to being small and minding their own business but that didn't work out, They were tested in Korea and then later in Vietnam. The moral high ground the US claimed following the end of WWII fell apart as they made one bad decision after another on who to support and saw race relations reach their obvious end leading to the civil rights movement and all the shit in the 60's. Only from an economic standpoint did that "great moment" last and even then only into the 70's. It was originally fueled by the war and the post war prosperity that followed from being the only industrialized country in the world not trying to rebuild from war but then it went into maximum overdrive when the US went into military superpower wanna-be world police mode.

Even that's ended now.

As well as spouting on about 'making America great again', Trump loves to speak about 'bringing back' the American dream.

What is 'The American Dream'? It certainly isn't anything quantifiable. In fact, I see it as an expression that the American people interpret as their own personal goals.

In George Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, the two main characters (Lenny and George) hope to put enough money together to buy their own land, build a house on it and farm that land
I see this as Steinbeck's interpretation of the American dream.

To conclude, I believe that 'The American Dream' is, in essence, not a thing. Trump's supporters and followers listen to him babble on and on about it, without realising themselves that 'The American Dream' is simply an expression for the hopes and ambitions of the American people.

>>688504663
>it was the best and brightest who were able to immigrate to America

Were they? As far as I know, those were mainly 7th and 8th children of European farmers for whom there wasn't any ground to inherit after their fathers.

I don't think it had much to do with being 'best and brightest' - though the harsh American conditions could've been an extra motivating factor to succeed.

>>688503923
>>688504663

You're both wrong. The people who immigrated to the US weren't the best and brightest or the savages and hobos. They were a cross-section of those groups comprised of people who simply couldn't sit still. There ones who came to the new world were dissatisfied. The reasons for that are endless but the only real difference between say (for example) Irish who came to America and Irish who stayed in Ireland was their level of complacency. The ones who moved weren't any smarter. They just couldn't stay put.

The US has a higher incidence of ADHD and all that other shit today. Do the math. We're the short attention span descendants of people who couldn't just live their lives not knowing what was on the other side of that ocean. That's why America such a train wreck today. There's nowhere else for us to go.

>>688502924
In the 1960s we may have had some troubles but many countries were fucking decimated. We were the world producer of most everything and the GDP was record high. That is the greatness, wealth.

>>688505020

The American Dream exists. It's to get in a position of "Fuck You". Seriously.

>>688502924
>the heyday of elegant alcoholic wife beaters
>some crime happened during time period X, therefore it was not great

By this implication all of life is equally shit. I'm sorry but I'm seeing shades of grey. Some things were good about the 50s and 60s, some were not. What we don't want is an America and Europe that is increasingly less white.

This is the defining ideological question of the 21st century: does it matter how white Europe/North America are in the future?

Your answer will make you either a multicultural Marxist, a right-wing populist or a straight Nazi. These are more or less the three available options.

>>688502924
December 26 1991.

>>688505020
>when you think you are deep but youre really just a faggot 13 year old
The American dream was at its peak in the 50s and sixties, that dream being a satisfied life in which you can afford luxuries and have friends with which you can confide. 2 car garage and wife and kids are also connected. That is the American dream, not this attempt at a 9th grade psychology thesis you fuckin concocted.

>>688504769
So basically this would make America's peak the post first war decade in which the largest cohort of baby boomers was born, the international system was set up (the UN, Bretton Woods) and the US was the sole nuclear power... Could be... It kinda coincides with Rockwell's Post period in terms of iconography... The vacuum bulb days could be a good contender, although I wonder what the real numbers in terms of well being really are for Americans in this period...

>>688505633
no, its not you spoiled little cunt

we live in a global golden age, never has life been so safe, never has it been this long, never have humans had the chance to develop in ways they can now before in history

>>688505425
Use decimate properly faggot or don't use it at all

>>688505633

What I've never understood is why is wanting a "Europe for Europeans" or a "North America for North Americans" inherently some kind of evil scheme on the part of whites? I mean, I don't have a problem with the idea of "China for the Chinese" or "Kenya for Kenyans". I don't want to force anyone anywhere to take in an endless flood of white people from Europe or North America and if one of these third world countries works its ass off and becomes a first world paradise I'm not going to move there. I'm going to stand right here and applaud the hell out of them. But if I want the United States to stop being the focus of worldwide mass immigration because it's pretty obvious that not every person who wants to come here can come here and in so doing not "change here in to there" I'm some kind of racist.

Enough already. We're not helping other places by letting their best and brightest come here on H1B visas. We're taking the minds that could fix their home countries. We're not helping by taking their drone laborers. We're just providing them a relief valve to keep their broken systems running. We're not helping any of us doing this.

So which am I? Right-wing populist or straight Nazi?

>>688506246

>Multicultural Marxist Identified

>>688502924
It was great when it earned it's liberty and was founded. It was incredibly advanced and free... but it lies in the nature of freedom that assholes get mighty so the dream was over pretty soon i guess. It was still a pretty good place compared to the rest of the world until they decided they'd destroy 2 countries because some lunatics flew a plane into a tower. Then they went full retard on their nsa spying shit and now they have 2 caricatures of politicians fighting to be the most powerful person in the world.
If you ask me, bill clintons america was the best america. The only bad thing you can say is that he got a blowjob lol. Also americans seemed ways less stupid and warloving back in the 90s.

>>688502924
Before cultural marxism started pointing fingers at white people.

>>688505680

That was a great fucking day. Damn I miss December 26th 1991!

Did things ever get any better than 4:16PM that day?

No they did not.

>>688503357
A bit 'murica lovin', but holy fuck, an actually thought through, intelligent answer, on /b/? I'm amazed...

>>688505425
So Nixon fucked it up? This was also the last decade of the Jim Crow era and of a largely rural population, is America at its best a country of farmers, peasants and blue collar workers? Taxes for the wealthy were high and outside of urban minorities it was an extremely conservative country.

>>688505291
For those discussing migration, massive influx from Europe was what? the 1850's all the way to the 1920's?

>>688502924
According to the Trump supporters I've met it was when you could lynch black men without consequences.

>>688505842
In all fairness, record players, tv sets, motor vehicles and booze were pretty much it in terms of luxuries, And out of reach for many still, life for many was maybe going out to dinner once every week or two (I'm talking diners not upscale restaurants) and the movie theatre... You were well off if you could actually afford to entertain at home on a regular basis...

>>688507009

Yeah, I'm not seeing that so that probably came from your fucking imagination but it's nice to see you involved in politics in some way.

When i was a child i america was like hmm mc donalds, americans are nice ppl who trait their prisoners well and helped us out when our country was destroyed, also very educated ppl who produce high quality high tech stuff.
Now america is like mc donalds makes ppl fat, americans are religious fanstics and warmongers, who destroy the world with their banks and foul financial products also the typical american cant show europe on a map.
Things changed a lot in the last 15 years lol

>>688502924
It will never be great when fags like you dont go to the right board. /pol/ is there for a fucking reason

>>688506268
it was you dumb ass past tense of decimate which is to destroy or remove a large part of

Listen up you brainwashed faggots.

1776-1814 Country lead by Intellectual Philosophers believing in human freedom. Authored the declaration and Constitution, DEFEATED THE MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY ON EARTH (England)
1814-1820 Built a strong Navy and defeated Mediterranean Pirate countries to make the sea lanes for US and EUrope.
1600s - 1865 Championed the the abolotionist movement when no other country would and defeated the practice of Slavery 51 years after becoming a country. Slavery was a Euro/African institution for thousands of years.
Lead the world in several industiral and technical revolutions.
Defeated Japan, German, Italy and 25 other axis countries worldwide.
Built a continent sized infrastructure unmatched anywhere to this day.
Life is so good and developed here that people from around the world are literally killing themselves to get here, and have been for 2 centuries.
Have the largest and cleanest agricultural industry that feeds half the world.
Food so cheap that you can afford to write trash about the US from your mother's basement.

So sad that only three presidents, carter, clinton and obama have brought us down to a shadow of the former strength.

hillary won't be happy until she makes us into another stalinist Vanezuela.

>>688508441
ty

>>688503601
we are down right now.

>>688503651
sure kid.

>>688505842

Yes, and that was possible to attain with a high school diploma and a blue collar factory job.

Nowadays the right wing would say that same person doesn't "deserve" it. And that the wages he would have earned back then should belong to his employer instead. Right wing economic policy has killed the American Dream.

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>>688508742
And that was the case when union membership was high and the effective tax rate on the top bracket was somewhere around 70% depending on deductions.

>>688507009
sure kid

>>688508742
right. they get dumber every day.

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>>688506293
Keyboard Katana-wielding faggot should have been an option
>kill yourself

>>688508441
Slavery was outlawed in Mexico as soon as it became independent in 1821, this was already the case for England... The US championing the internationl abolition movement is certainly not true...

>>688503651
Theyvs done so fucking well with mexico right. Keep those butchers in their fuckin desert and out of my nation.

>>688502924
America was great before the white man "discovered" it and came in and fucked it up.

>>688509603
Yeah really considering the US didn't fully abolish slavery/racial segregation until the second half of the 20th century

>>688509603
outlawing a practice does not insure it will end.

>>688509759
sure kid

>>688502924
Easy. The industrial revolution. Lots of freedom, great inventions, very small government. Everything was getting better.

>>688506293
Smart. Is there some kind of dating site where i can meet girls who think like this?

>>688509603

The English Navy was the guarantor of the global slave trade. If there is a single group to hold accountable for slavery, it is undoubtedly the English.

Many US states never had legal slavery period. Just because the US has a decentralized legal system doesn't mean it wasn't fighting for abolition. Hundreds of thousands of Americans gave their lives to end slavery.

TLDR learn some history m8

>>688502924
Like a normal civilization she has her ups and downs. I say during Calvin Cool's era.
Keep cool with Coolidge

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>>688509959
Uh, except that's a demonstrable fact? The United States had legally codified discrimination on it's law books until 1964, and some places still haven't repealed said laws, just superceded them with others.

Kill yourself whitey. You must be from the EU or something.

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America was great back when Dillinger was robbing banks and Karpis was masterminding kidnappings.

>>688510161
Yeah those were great times when employers chained workers to their machines even if the building was on fire and kids worked 14 hour days.

You're an idiot.

>>688506293
A stright busta. And middle conservative
Dont overplay your role

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>>688502924
>So WHEN was it exactly and HOW LONG did it last according to you?

You have to go back.

>>688510383
>never had legalized slavery
>legalized segregation and racialization
>but muh English
You know the English slave trade ended decades before the US one, right? And just because slavery wasnt "legal" in certain territories, doesn't mean that there wasnt some equivalent in form and function Jim crow or Indian law shit, or anti-immigrant (take your pick, Irish, Chinese, Italian).

Basically you sound like a cuckold.

>>688510383
Learn your history. Portugal and Spain are thr ones who kicked slavery into overdrived chicken trade

>>688502924
>When was America great?
When everyone was a colonial from Great Britain.

>>688502924
America only considered itself "great" in the way that it does now since WWII. Before that, America was considered a backwater nation, and for good reason. That's not to say there was not some national pride, but the concept of this "great" america comes from American ascendancy as a global super-power in the wake of post-ww2 and post-colonial Europe. Ironically, the events that allowed America to rise to this position so rapidly were mostly accidental, and America likely would have emerged as a potent military and economic power in the 20th century anyway, but the idea that America was something special is relatively recent.

>>688510712
fuck off kid

Are you fucking serious guys? America is and was ALWAYS "great". You took everything you want, killed everyone you want and do whatever you want. How dare you complaining about your " greatness". Fuck yourself and keep eating at McDonalds so one day you hopefully all die. You deserve it.

>>688510712
look another dumbfuck millennial

>>688510895
And you tink there isnt anything as terrible before that era?

GDP was actually growing during that era, many poor people are actually turning into middle wealth family. People starting to concern about child labor and other safety practices for the very first time. Of course there will be evil employeers at different times, Foxconn as one of the example. If you thinj there isnt any in the pass and present, then i got nothing to say

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ITT people complain about america for its problems when majority of other countries are still struggling with basic concepts like free speech, human rights, legal sex slavery, death camps/death squads, mud huts, dictatorship,slavery, starvation, etc...etc...etc

hate america all you want no skin off my back, at least i can walk around talking as much shit about the broken system and how it needs to be changed without fear ill be killed for doing so

isnt america just the worst gais

every single continent is a horrible place
know why?
because human beings can be horrible no matter where they come from

>>688511119
And yet the Royal Navy continued to defend the global slave trade.

>we're so principled we're going to outlaw slavery in our country
>except we're still going to buy slaves in Africa and transport them all over the world to make money
>but we're really against slavery and we have the moral high ground

lmao

Fact: Slavery would not have existed in America if it were not for the European slave trade.

>>688511848
Look, some samefag with no backup

You can be as wrong as you want about it, it won't make your dick longer or your pocket fatter, you knuckle-shuffling bellend

>>688512167
See this I agree with, but I also think US individuals did a great job with that relay baton

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>>688511755
Agreed

>>688510895
That was the Guilded Age. Ended relatively quick. With immance ammount of progressive ideas and social policys, which were stepping stone for ww1 and Roaring 20s

>>688506246
You sound like Robb Stark before the Red Wedding. You don't see the storm that's brewing, do you? You don't see that the mould hasn't been removed, just papered and painted over?

People called the time before WW1 a golden era of peace. Some people just walk through life both eyes wide shut.

>>688502924
anything pre formation of the country

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>>688510712
how did he get the beans above the frank

>>688506293
This is the defining struggle of the 21st century.
The new capitalism versus socialism.

Some people are actively trying to create a mixed society (only in the West of course) to overcome racism. And then there are those who want to keep the West white.

Wars will be fought over this. And these wars are coming to the USA and Europe within the next 10, 20, or 30 years. We will live to see it.

>>688511180
And yet Blacks are relatively rare in Spanish speaking countries, with a few in the Caribean, Venezuela, Cuba, having minorities comparable in proportion to the US... The blackest of Spanish speaking countries in the Americas, Honduras, got their blacks from British slave trade into what is today Belize... Brasil, a Portuguese speaking conutry, is a different case altogether...

>>688506293
>So which am I? Right-wing populist or straight Nazi?

If people of different color are both friends and rivals at the same time (you respect them but don't want to sell yoruself short), you're a right-wing populist. Go vote FN, AfD, Trump, UKIP, 5 Stars, FPÖ. If you think people of different ethnicities are ONLY enemies or rivals (which inevitably leads to enmity, btw), you're a Nazi. Greetings to Adolf in that case.

But if you think we're all just friends and rivalry plays no role at all... congrats you're a multiculturalist. Say hi to Karl Marx from me.

>WHEN exactly was America great?

1776-1960

>>688510712
you just want a reason to hate whites, racist.

>>688506246
god it's awesome to live in the west.

>>688502924
Yes because we never prospered economically. This is certainly not dealing specifically with economics and the overall quality of life for citizens.

>>688508441
Don't remember anyone dying to get to Us, meanwhile Arabs keep drowning trying to get to Italy. Italia GOAT.

>>688513452
What are you in 11th grade? Of course Brazil is going to have the most slaves, they taken in 50% (roughly) from the Atlantic slave trade. And the Spanish are the ones who ran the slave fortresses and kept them safe from would be pirates looking for their comrades. No shit USA will have most blacks; they delt with them the most, also immigration tend to help, and get blended up with the indigenous blacks, and labeling themselves "slave root", when in reality their ancestors are the ones who sold/traded them for some sea shells. Also to add up more on the Portuguese, they were the specialized sellers of slaves. No right human would want slaves (mostly blacks) in their country in the long run.

>>688502924
>Pointing out every decade except the glorious 50s
Good work retard

>>688502924
>America during times of great prosperity doesn't count because there was also some bad stuff / politics / public opinions I personally disagree with going on at the same time. Therefore America was never great.

>>688513452
This dude is a cuck

>>688513522
*1968

It really all went down with the student revolts. Hippies and all that stuff. Their descendents are ruling the West now.

>>688513784
Itd be pretty good if it wasnt for insufferable pricks like him

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Garithos did nothing wrong

>>688513628
Uh no, "white" people do a pretty solid job of embarrassing themselves without me needing to add anything to it. I'm not a racist either, but I can understand how, lacking a forebrain you might think that. I couldn't care less about any individuals responsibility for historical racism or slavery, so if it's racist to state facts about my country's history and present then fuck it, it's par for the course, and whites should get the brunt of any contemporary racism

>thinking I give any shit about white people lmao go watch some more dogfart you sager idiot

>select all images with tea
>wew

I don't know shit about history but if it isn't so great why do people from all over the world want to come here? I think this is the country where you'll find more cultural diversity than any other place in the world. I'm a Mexican immigrant and it's fucking great if you ask me.

>>688515127
I second this as an asian immigrant

>>688505155
Neither would America dumbass.

>>688515127
>>688515238

Look, cultural diversity is fine but American society, imho, is inching slowly towards breaking point. Sharing your land with people of different cultures/skin color/etc is great. Up to a point. And that is point approaches when your own power base is slowly getting undermined/threatened. Then it starts getting ugly.

As long as white people clearly dominate America it's all good. As far as this starts to evaporate, I am hearing the drums of war.

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America was great when Trump under Trump. It was a truly great periodo in the history of mankind.
Futurefag speaking

>>688515557
Tell me something I dont know/appreciate

>>688502924

when it crushed those stupid redneck slaveholders in 1860s

>>688512994
Because everything's bigger in Texas 'cept the clearance on your Levi's.

>>688515557
>>688515669
Oh and l dont care for cultural diversity. It should be a melting pot with a unified goal, not a salad bowel with city-state like confederation

that one time when that black guy got shot cause he dindu nuffin