Obama wouldn't have let that happen

>>688128419
Yes, easily. He could have not broken the treaty with Russia; that alone really fucked him.

>>688128419
yes, both factors would have played a major role. also successfully taking over whole europe or the world, which would both have helped winning the war. no idea why he did not think of those either...

>>688128473
longtime WW2 buff fag so really want to hear some opinions, I agree..that Russian winter sealed the deal

>>688128419
Napoleon took Moscow.... Didn't stop the Ruskies....

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>>688128419

If only he had gotten into art school

>>688128962
or shot when he was an enlisted fag ambulance driver

Hitler was a loser and a faggot

/Thread

Stretched too thin, took on the Russians too early. Way too unprepared for Russian winter.

Could of been drastically different as anon said: >>688128473

>>688129105
Are you this faggot?

>>688128400

>>688129105
u dont /thread/ ur own post retard

>>688129445
Dunno how new you are, but it's a thing.

Hitler made some dumb decisions that ultimately cost him the war, for example the Luftwaffe nearly took out the RAF, the RAF was about 2 weeks from shutting down completely, but then Hitler ordered the Luftwaffe to bomb London and attack civilians, so the RAF were able to regain strength and fight back

>>688128419

>1)Heavy water plant treatment sabotage in Norway.
If that had failed, Nazis would have beaten US to the nuclear weapons race.
>2)Russian invasion
Stupid decision
>3)Italian allies
Retarted as fuck, couldn't do shit by themselves, had to dispatch forces to do what italians couldn't
>4)Not having Rommel as master boss.

>>688129639
he also fucked up by not finishing off forces at Dunkirk

>>688129715
was a U.S Army tanker for 4 years, kept a picture of Rommel in our confinement, great commander

Check out Hearts of Iron 4. WW2 simulator basically. Comes out today. Make the Reich great again

>>688128419
allegedly the Luftwaffe nearly knocked Britain out of the fight 3 different times, but kept switching the focus of their bombings because they didn't know how well they were doing. i forget the order , but they switched targets from radar facilities and other defense system targets (1) to RAF airfields and plane depots (2) to RAF training buildings and pilot barracks (3).

if they had continued on hammering any one type of target they would have fatally crippled the Brits ability to defend against air attacks bit they kept getting impatient and changing tactics.

i mean yes hypothetically he could have won the war at any stage if he just made every correct decision, but he fucked up loads. Where was the turning point? It is difficult to say, some say Stalingrad, but forget that Stalingrad was a reaction to the battle of Moscow which they lost, the Germans were already overstretched 2km from Berlin to Mozdok and then 2km from Finland to Turkey. Also Hitler didn't deal with the allies before invading Russia, so he had a two front war, he would never win after 1941

Rather non sense question. You are asking if the outcome of an event would have been different if the conditions it ocurred in would be different... well.. yes. That is mathematically true.

But to think that it was decided by a couple of small details, that is naive. Hitler's success in the first half of the war was solely based on attacking without mercy by storm with everything you got. That worked as intended, but what do you do when the enemy estabilizes. What was the plan for, say, two three years after the of occupation of a territory?

You see, if you take the D day as an example, it was tough for the Alies to advance, German defense was actually effective. But to which point? Was it set to practically defeat that amount of armed soldiers? The Alies just planned and took into account their own casualities. Same for the russians, they waited until they were in an advantage position, because they had more resources.

So all in all, the nazis' plan had failure written all over it since day one. It was plainly stupid and most likely many militar high ranks understood that early on, but I guess they were force to shut up or being executed.

>>688129715
Rommel wasn't nearly as good a general as history has made him out to be, he mostly relied on information from a dumb ass American military attache who didn't code his messages back to USA, he was Rommel's 'good source', as soon as Rommel was in Europe, he got fucked

Shoulda been friendly with the Russians. Now imagine them, Russia, Japan, & italy

>>688130112
well in Russia certainly the generals didn't stand up to Hitler. He made decisions which led numerous times to the encirclement of the 6th army of 90,000 men and then most of battle group south which was about 900,000, the generals of the 6th army were too timid to contest Hitler dooming those men. I personally believe if Hitler had delegated control, then the encirclement of many troops in the Ruhr and in the East wouldn't have happened and may have made a big difference, not that it would spell victory for them, but they could have moved the ruhr pocket to the east, and allowed the West to capture Berlin

Repeat with me.... Looooooser!

Wars won 0
Political legacy A bunch of underage retards in chans like this.

Not bait, just facts

>>688130196
You stupid cunt don't know what you are talking about. Hitler only will was to destriy communism.

>>688130196
>Shoulda been friendly with the Russians. Now imagine them, Russia, Japan, & italy

Yeah, for sure...
oh wait, Hitler hated communists
>german communist party had 7 council members
>4 of them were jews
>connected the dots
>jews = communists
>tried to eradicate both
Stalin and Hitler were too self absorbed to coexist in the same planet.

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Too many cheese pizzas...

>>688129566
it's a thing because newfags like you do it

"WWII was won with British intelligence, American steel and Russian blood"

>>688130617
well Stalin thought he was making a clever moved signing the non aggression treaty, he believed Hitler would never start a two front war, he knew they would attack the Allies, but he believed he'd be safe in the East. He didn't realise that Germany would smash through France and there would be no second front until 1944

>>688130059
Nah, the spitfire was an unmatched king during ww2 dogfights. Everybody admits that.

The Me 262 was crazy for its time, clearly a huge game changer well above anything else at the time. But practically irrelevant, they didn't know what to do with it at that time, it was too expensive for a country that is at war. The british just took their working aviation technology and used it to tackle the enemy.

You say the RAF was two weeks from being defeated, but it is a known fact that germans even sent pilots with a couple of weeks of trainment at a point.
The british only send the bombers when the lufwafe was on its knees... with 2000 planes formations. Honestlly, that is just wishfull thinking from neo-nazism. Germany was humilated pretty badly in all fronts, air included.

>>688130757
& a little help from various resistances and not their cowardly governments

>>688128419
Yes. If he had stayed out of the Soviet Union during winter, and Japan delayed the Pearl Harbor attack until after Germany wrapped up the western front in europe. This would have kept America and Russia out of the war until too late.

>>688130974
he would never have been able to take russia, ever, it didn't matter that he avoided the winter because the winter is always there

In 1941, in a speech to the Eastern Front Battle Group Nord, Himmler said that the war against the Soviet Union was a war of ideologies and races, between National Socialism and Jewish Bolshevism, between the Germanic peoples (Nordic) and the Untermenschen peoples of the East

>>688128419
>D-Day Forces
Please, the American forces were close to nothing.

>>688130367
Oh man, tat was top kek. It's funny because it's true.

>>688130974
American's would have been to upset not to fire back at japan, perhaps a large scale air raid over tokyo & then call it a truce. an eye for an eye.

>>688131185
where did I say american at you fucking faggot.

>>688131185
>implying it was only amerifatties fighting on d-day

if you guys are bored you should look up Operation Mincemeat, it was a deception that tricked Hitler into moving troops from France to Greece and considerably changed the makeup of the defences of the Atlantic wall

>>688129566
It's not a fucking thing and it never will be, you summerfag piece of shit, go back to /mlp/

>>688131399
That's common knowledge tbh

>>688131385
to be honest, Americans during that time weren't fat

>>688128473
was needed. the chance was very high that russia would have broken the treaty after winter and attacked, this risk pressured germany to act.

>>688131473
>tbh

get the fuck out of here you cunt

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If he won against Russia it is not necessary that he would win against UK and US. He made a mistake in russia pretty much the same that everyone before him did.

>>688128419
Japan shouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbour, that started involving USA in the war.

>>688131661
The US governent knew its was coming and did nothing to stop it

>>688131661
no shit you punk bastard

>>688131779
How would government explain to people why they want to send troops to that far away europe?

>>688131661
The problem for both Japan and Germany was limited resources. Japan tried to eliminate the Pacific fleet during pearl Harbor which would have allowed them to be pretty much uncontested in the Pacific as they captured more territory. Hitler had to attack Russia for Russian oil and to try to get the jump on Stalin before Stalin decided to attack him. Both countries tried to do too much too fast.

>>688131185
you what?
>learn to history

>>688128419

Brits not cracking the enigma or maybe going one country at a time instead of declaring war on everybody.

Also maybe not gas the jews, he got a ton of money from their bank accounts, but he lost a ton of scientists that way.
I think as long as the Allies got the bomb before them, there is no way of winning

>>688128419
sure, had he dropped nukes before everyone else then things would had been looking a lot differently, specially if he had nuked russia, then the world would most likely still be in war today and sweden, finland, norway etc would had been russian allies

>>688132053
Ah! Oil! of course, I thought there was more to attacking russia!, thanks.

>>688131648
Except Genghis Khan, he proper fucked the Russians and their woman. Most Russians don't care to admit that their great great...grandmothers where mongol whores

>>688131779
[citation needed]
Pro tip: Word press, geocities, etc. are not sources

>>688132282
so i guess what im saying with this approach is.. no, at best a maybe

>learning the lessons of history and staying the fuck out of Russia

>building enough stuff and not super duper stuff like the elephant tank and such but more of functional weapons like the Soviets and Americans did with the T34 and Sherman.

>listening to his people and believing the evidence that they thought their codes were broken

>>688131641
Fucking kek. Hate that lazy ass lingo shit myself

>>688130830
turnrating istn all. the bf109s would climb better on several occacions and some heights and the early 190s could easily outrun a spitfire.
but still some hurricanes would hurt some 109s ... in dogfighting the height advantage and seeing the enemy before he sees you is the key part. and the brits got both over their home teretory with a 109 only be able to fight for 20 mins before they had to head home again without running out of fuel.

germany fought pretty well until 1944 being totally outnumbered on all fronts

>>688132174
It wasn't just scientists, by gassing the Jews he eliminated labor. Germany had issues with textile manufacturing as a result of his extermination policies. The use of death squads only encouraged resistance groups. Additionally Germany cranking out new super weapons every other month didn't help the strain on limited resources. If Hitler had focused his attention and also stopped micro managing the war would have been very different.

>>688130773
That is not true, Stalin knew Hitler would come, he signed the pact to buy him time to prepare his army either to get invaded or to invade

>>688128473
>>688128593
If you knew anything about the German economy under Hitler during WW2, know that invading Russia was literally his only choice. German manufacturing was very skilled, but incredibly inefficient. Hitler needed resources that only the eastern front could provide.
However, even after seizing 2/3rds of Russia's coal and steel production, Germany was only able to increase munitions by no more than 10%. They were that inefficient.

Germany had cut off all capital inflow so if they wanted to make stuff they needed to take stuff. It gets even worse considering that people were being paid in credit with the promise that their war efforts would make them actually rich and not just seemingly rich.

Tl;dr: Germany was doomed from the start

>>688132501
The development of super tanks and wonder weapons really hurt. Sure the panther and tiger series were brutal tanks, however limited numbers kept them from ever being effective. The Sherman was a fairly good all around tank unless it ran up against a tiger, but the US realized that instead of putting resources into a new tank, they could just crank out more Shermans and over run the better tanks whenever they encountered one.

>>688128419
No, there is no way, US was too fresh to the War still and an economic powerhouse arming and feeding not just themselves but the Russians and Common wealth forces.

If he hadn't been an arrogant prick surrounded by a cabinet of other dumb arrogant pricks though and let his generals/colonel's and other highly experienced commanders do what they wanted to do and begged him to do. Then he would of atleast held mainland Europe and we would have had an equivalent Cold war but with Nazi land.

>>688128593
>>688129105
>>688129639
>>688130059


He invaded Russia with the largest army in the history of the world.

Plus, as a hypochondriac he thought he was running out of time.

In his head the invasion was the best Germany could muster in his lifetime.

Ergo. Due to Hitlers ego there was no other possible outcome.

>>688128419
if the panzer divisions didnt stop to commit atrocities in france on their way north to normandy, they would have gotten their in time and probably repelled the allies.

if the 6th army hadnt buggered off to stalinfuck and stayed en route to moscow, they probably would have taken it, and the russians may have surrendered.

If they had developed good tactical bombers and bombed out the factories in the urals, russian tank production would have halted, and bombing of english factories would have further demoralized the britcucks

>>688133459
See >>688133236
It wasn't his ego
Lebensraum wasn't just a notion. It was a way of life. It was a necessity

>>688133626
Yes, that's why no strategic change would have been possible that would have led to a different outcome

He tried to do too much all at once. Instead of using resources on a trans-Atlantic bomber he should have focused on more theater level equipment. Instead of trying to annex land and make a super race, he should have captured territory and then integrated the people to show why being under Germany was better. That alone could have helped in Russia if Russians though may be Hitler would treat them better than Stalin.

>>688133236
>German manufacturing was very skilled, but incredibly inefficient.
Sort of.
The truth was that they had too high an opinion of quality.
When Hitler inspected captured T-34s he remarked on their lack of finish. A German tank would be polished not left rough. His generals pointed out that they worked just as welll when rough.
Similarly, according to Dr R L Jones of British Scientific Intelligence, if he wanted to know if a radio signal was German he just checked its stability. The German signal would be much more stable than the British signal.
Unnecessary emphasis on quality wasted resources; a mistake the Russians didn't make.

>>688128419
if he had two balls he would have been man enough to win

>>688133795
There's no chance in hell Hitler could've shown them they'd be treated better under him than Stalin.
Hitler's economy was incredibly inefficient compared to Stalin, and that's really saying something.

>>688128419
Hitler lives in all of us

If there was a large land bridge between france and Great Britain, Hitler would have won

>>688132946
I'm not that knwlegeable in aircraft technology, just stating what I learned from multiple sources. That might very well be true.
The fact is that the RAF did win.
Perhaps their mistake was attacking with a defense weapon? When the british start bombing germany, the germans defense was not nearly as impressive. The british pretty much trop bombs at will.

>>688133907
That's pretty much what I said. Germans focused on quality over quantity. They scoffed at the notion of mass production until the Americans militarized. The Americans went from 2% of GDP being military to 49% of GDP being military in just 2 years. Hitler wasn't even able to achieve that jump in a decade. He figured high quality munitions would overpower the staggering amount of mass produced munitions. He squandered his resources.

In 1943, the German military had 16 motor vehicles for every 1000 German citizens. America had over 200 for every 1000 citizens. That just goes to show how effective mass production is, and how arrogant Hitler was

>>688134053
Top kek

>>688134053
Hitler didn't have a real invasion plan for Britain. He didn't have enough barges for troop transport, the English Channel would have to be blockaded against Eurpoe's biggest navy and he'd need air supremacy, which he wasn't getting. It was enough if he could ensure that Britain couldn't interfere in his plans to annex the Romanian oil fields. To get them he had to put Russia out of action.

>>688128419
>Could Hitler have won the war if something had changed?
Not attack Russia
Japan not attack Pearl Harbour
Not gas people, in a war you need everybody you can get

>>688134225
That's quite an over simplification. While true in some cases, it doesn't apply in other cases.

The creator of the AK47 said that the biggest design influence for that gun was seeing the germans throwing bullets at anything that moved without thinking twice, while the russians had more acurate riffle but much more limited amo.

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i recommend documentary storm in the east and play the game decisive campaign barbarossa
will give you an answer to your question OP
bottom line is it's easy in hindsight and with exhaustive and true information to see where everything went wrong but when you're in the thick of it it's hard to get perspective

>>688134421
Exactly, if the British mainland was attached to northern france, blitzkrieg would have worked just as well as it did for the rest of europe, leaving Hitler with one less giant thorn in his side, and making the german empire stable enough to allow for a delayed invasion of russia, with a much greater chance of success

>>688134503
We've already discussed the Russia thing. Hitler would've lost had he not attacked Russia. He was doomed from the start.

As for Japan, the pearl harbor attack was poor strategy. It was an incredibly effective attack and must've seemed necessary at the time, but with a little foresight they could've planned a much more devastating preemptive strike.

>>688134503
To be fair, Hitler didn't gas people, himmler did.

He wasn't unknowing, but he also wasn't an advocate.

Personally the way I see it Hitler came close to taking over Europe. What I see what stopped him was his siege on Stalingrad and the southern area that surrounded it, if Hitler took Stalingrad there would be no stopping him taking over the oil industry down there and would of made him an unstoppable force, stronger than he already was, if it wasn't for the Russians there and Hitlers carelessness of the battles down there Hitler could of easily won WW2.

>>688128419
If they had used regular water/graphite instead of heavy water in nuclear weapon production, the Germans would have won the war. Not to mention that they let the blitzkrieg success go to their head so the nuclear program was pretty much not in full throttle. Other than that, a few bad calls were made and there was a war on two fronts.

>>688134704
Even if he took over the oil fields, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. They squandered their resources. They were literally the most inefficient faction in the entire war. They could have half of the entire worlds resources and would still lose

not enough bullets to stop the sheer number of bodies coming at them, not enough ammunition to stop the sheer amount of tanks coming from the East, not enough planes to combat the USAF nor enough pilots to even fly them. not enough fuel to drive.
USAF had like 11,000 fighters or some shit up in the air by 44 while Germany had something like 1500 left?
forces were too stretched, Luftwaffe was too stretched out, they tried to blame that on Goring, but in reality it was battle strategy fuck up on a mass scale. maybe not attempt a pincer, but just line drive straight to Africa since Africa isn't exactly Stalingrad.
after too much over-stretching, the RAF and USAF were able to shoot Germany in the back in the dak, essentially.

>>688133459
he didn't have the largest army...
Russians had 12000000 million troops in 1941
was just a matter of mobilizing them and getting to the front line

>>688134863
dak = dark

>>688128419
No. If he did anything different, Berlin would be a nuclear hole in the ground.

>>688134639
Pearl Harbor would have been incredibly effective had the fleet been in harbor on the day of the attack. The problem with running a global war was getting information to your fleet in time. The Japanese navy was committed to the attack and unaware the primary targets were out of port. It was pretty much japan's only real hope. Deliver a huge knockout punch to give yourself enough time to capture territory and replenish resources before the US could respond from losses.

>>688134923
>12000000 million troops
>12000000000000 troops
>12 trillion troops

>>688134997
Explain how.

>>688134923
>Russia had 12 trillion troops in 1941
Damn, they really were cannonfodder

>>688134848
During the war Hitler was very much on top even with his resources being low, if he did take Stalingrad he would of had more oil for his tanks, yes he could still loose but it's a big factor that did play in his defeat, like America joining the war late which did screw Hitler over a fair bit. Through those two factors its safe that only one thing can't make Hitler win.

>>688130196
Hitler said, a nazi is not a comrade. He hated commies, and the alliance was a strategic lie.

>>688135124
Ha! I meant a commie is not a comrade.

Funny mix up.

>>688135088
See >>688133236
He seized 2/3rds of Russia's coal and steel production. Held it for 2 years. Couldn't increase military production by more than 10% despite more than tripling his resources.
Do you really think a little bit of oil would've made the difference?
They didn't even have enough motor vehicles for that oil to matter. Hence why they didn't go for it.

>>688135057
>>688135069
sorry, was suppose to write ants, not troops
my bad

>>688128473
russians would've attack him anyway.

One of Hitlers major mistake was letting the brits go their way at dunkirk. so many men would've been held captive and brits would be out of the war pretty quick

>>688135064
We dropped two bombs on Japan in August, while Nazis were defeated in May.

If the Nazis were still around in August, it might have been 1 bomb on Japan, and 1 bomb on Germany.

>>688130830
>The Me 262 was crazy for its time, clearly a huge game changer well above anything else at the time
The Me262 was too little too late. At the time it was operational it was only a matter of time before Germany lost the war.

>>688133459
>He invaded Russia with the largest army in the history of the world.
Nope

>>688131115
>because the winter is always there
Wrong
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/moscow-breaks-alltime-high-tem/34756

>>688135345
Except Germany could've made nuclear weapons and fucked everyone if it weren't for using heavy water.

>>688131185
thats why they came with brits and canadians you mongrel

>>688135345
Eh, Dresden proved that you don't need a nuke to destroy a city. The reason we chose to use a nuke on Japan rather than stick with strategic mass bombings was purely logistical. It's easier to drop one big bomb on an island than hundreds of little bombs. The same cannot be said for Germany. Their location allows for strategic bombing, so it would pretty much be a waste of a nuke

>>688135508
So, one thing Hitler could've done different to win is make a nuke. Perhaps. But he didnt. We did.

If he did anything different beside making a nuke, he would've lost. The power of the atomic bomb was a fucking game changer. Whoever had it first would go on to be a bad assed super power .

>>688135508
By the time they could have possibly put nukes into production, their air force had dwindled even more than the territory they held. They wouldn't be able to get close to any major enemy target to nuke. They pretty much would've had to nuke their own country in order to clear out occupying forces. Nuking enemy territory wouldn't be feasible for them until half a decade after the war ended

Hitler stopped the German army from pushing the British into the sea at Dunkirk because he assumed that Britain was basically out of the war at that point, and would negotiate a peace. Instead, the British kept fighting, mauling the Luftwaffe, carpet bombing Germany's cities, and blocking access to vital middle Eastern oil supplies. Britain would also end up providing the staging post for the combined Anglo-American landings in Europe; without it America would never have been able to launch military operations in Europe.

The beginning of the Russian campaign was pushed back several months to deal with Italy's fuckups in the Balkans. If the Germans had ignored the Balkans and launched Barbarossa on schedule, it's more than likely that they would have captured Moscow before winter set in.

If Hitler had wiped out the BEF in 1940, and started Barbarossa on schedule in 1941, it's more than likely that he would have won the war.

Although really the most critical moment had nothing to do with hitler or Germany - if Japan hadn't bombed pearl harbour and brought America into the war, Germany might well have won (even with America's continuing economic assistance to Russia). And if Japan had attacked Russia instead of America, the Axis victory would have been all but certain - it was troops which were withdrawn from the east once it became apparent that Japan wouldn't attack that broke the siege of Stalingrad

>>688135397
>see video footage of the Me262
>it's in the forest, hidden in the trees, covered in foliage and shit
yeah, Germany was hiding in the shrubs and shit by 44, putting twigs on their helmets because they're playing defense now and hiding from Mustangs.

>>688128419
Hitler would have been in power until the 1970s if he stayed at the annexing level. As soon as he declared war he was doomed. P.S. fuck the Nazis and Neo Nazi-cucks.

>>688135601
True, you don't need nukes to defeat an enemy, but the a bomb was a more psychological weapon than a force of destruction. If they dropped one on Berlin, or another Germanic city, it would've been devastating to morale, like the Japanese.

And some point, people decode living is better than dying in a fire.

>>688135746
>possibly put nukes into production
It wasn't "possibly put nukes into production." They had the means to do so, the Germans discovered nuclear fission in 1938, and could very well have made a nuclear weapon. They didn't because there wasn't a reason for one as they were pretty much unstoppable up until later in to the war.

>>688131185
Being this stupid

>>688135915
The only reason the nuke was psychologically effective was because it made sense logistically. The Japanese knew another one could come at any time.
The fire bombing of Dresden had the same exact psychological effect. It made logistical sense so they knew another could come at any time.
Nuking Germany wouldn't make any logistical sense, so it wouldn't have as much impact as firebombing, in much the same way that the firebombing of Tokyo didn't have as much impact as the nuke.

Your attacks have to make sense for enemy generals to realize you mean business. You can't just flex your muscles for no reason.

>>688136022
Discovering nuclear fission isn't the same thing as being able to put nukes into production

>>688135508
how? by killing all the important jewish scientists?

>>688131185
I would like to point out that the Brits wanted to wait another 12 to 18 months for D-Day but America insisted on pushing it forward.
There would literally be no D-Day without America because the Brits were afraid they would lose

Actually Hitler was pretty much screwed from the start. Annexing and integrating other countries would have bought time, but he wouldn't last. The US would win no matter what. He wouldn't be able to invade the US. He didn't have the support structure, he didn't have the manufacturing capabilities, and he didn't have the man power. The US is a huge (both area and population) island 1000s of miles from Europe and Asia. It's safe and can focus on supplying resources. Hitler lost Russia because the Russians had tons of US made trucks to move men and equipment. Yes they had the t34, but the howitzers, anti aircraft, infantry, etc had no reliable and quick method for moving. The allies had a huge uninterruptable supply source in the US.

>>688136022
every country in the world knew the basics behind nuclear fission. You know the big secret behind the nuclear bomb? Understanding enough of the theory to build one isn't that hard.

but in order to put that theory into practice you first have to overcome a myriad of technical difficulties, and the Germans weren't anywhere close to doing that. Even if the Norwegian heavy water plant hadn't been sabotaged, the Allies would still have got the bomb first

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>>688136367
I didn't say it was, but it certainly played a huge role because months after the discovery, the German nuclear program would begin. The reason it failed was because it lost scientists and the heavy water plant was destroyed.

>>688136962
Thank you.
His idea was the equivalent of
>They knew gunpowder was flammable, so they could've easily built a revolver
I just didn't know how to tell him

>>688128419
Reason he failed in Russia is because the Germans army didnt have warm socks.

>>688137115
See >>688136962

>>688128962
if only leni had hooked him up to go back to school

>>688137115
The reason it failed was because it was shit. It was only one of dozens of super weapons Hitler invested in. Sometimes, to win a war, you actually do have to put all of your eggs in one basket

Even if they got the nuke, they would've had to spend a vast amount of time on production and testing. Something Germany could not afford at the time, but the US could.

>>688136825
i think this is the idea when people back then said "America won the war". we weren't in the bloodiest conflicts and didn't lose as much life, but we bolstered everyone else's strength to stupid, clown proportions.
America didn't win it, we just ensured Allied victory by proxy.

the only real chance Hitler had was the V-2 rocket and Me262, so he could actually reach and combat America on a large scale, but it all came too late.
>King Tiger
lulz. more like King Blunder.. fodder for the Mustang.

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I saw a documentary on Discovery that if HItler did not do a full frontal attack on Russia. Stretching supply lines and resource but would have gone via the middle eastern/ balkan he would have enough oil and supplys to endure the winter. There also was a good chance the offense would start after the winter.

And if he went via the south, in the beginning the front line would not have been as stretched as it is now.

I crudely painted the route some historians thought he should have taken. This allowed him to do a pincer move on russia too.

>>688136962
>created the first nuclear reactor
>weren't anywhere close to doing so

>>688130196
Hitler hated russia because he thought they were infested with jews and because he thought all russians were lesser people thus why he thought the invasion would be easy

>>688137565
that's what i said in a post.
he shouldn't have done the pincer, even though it got him to Moscow. it cost the Luftwaffe too many losses.

>>688137565
This whole "attacking Russia in the winter" meme needs to stop.
Hitler's invasion of lasted multiple years, not one fucking season. He didn't lose because it was winter, he lost because he was fucked from the beginning. He squandered resources. Obtaining more oil so he could use it inefficiently would've made absolutely no difference
He acquired 2/3rds of Russia's steel and coal production, and that barely helped him. A little bit of oil would've made no difference

>>688128419
Yes, OP, if Hitler had won more key battles he could have won the war. That is as obvious as saying that if Team A had scored more touchdowns and made Team B score fewer, Team A could have won the game.

>>688137650
Nuclear reactor =/= nuclear bomb you retard.
That's like claiming we can use black holes as weapons because we made the LHC

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No, he could not without stable nuclear rockets. The capture of the world without unique and unstoppable weapons is impossible.

>>688137810
You can win every battle and still lose the war. Comparing war to a game of football is retarded because there's no ref, there no scoreboard, there are barely any rules, etc

>>688137153
>>688136962

"At Farm Hall, immediately following the news of the first bomb, Weizzsacker said to his colleagues, “I believe that the reason we didn’t do it was because all the physicists didn’t want to do it, on principle. If we had all wanted Germany to win the war we would have succeeded” (Frank 76-77). Later in the day, Otto Hahn remarked, “I must honestly say that I would have sabotaged the war if I had been in a position to do so” (Frank 82). Finally, Heisenberg himself told Hahn that if the Germans had been in the same position as the Americans and “had said to themselves that nothing mattered except that Hitler should win the war, they might have succeeded, whereas in fact they did not want him to win” (Frank 83). Each of these statements lends credence to the belief that German scientists did not want the Nazis to win the war and that they therefore did not pursue research on the bomb to the fullest extent possible."

>>688134656
you realise hitler was gassing retards and people who couldnt help society years before they did it to the jews?

Maybe if he didn't make a treaty with those fucking japs or italians.

>>688138039
A couple scientists saying they didn't want to do it doesn't mean that they could do it if the scientists wanted to.
Steven Hawking doesn't want to contact aliens, does that mean we could if he wanted to? Several scientists are afraid of hard AI, is that the only thing stopping it?

>>688137996
That's why I said "could" instead of "would".

>>688137800
You realise the lack of oil was one of the reasons the Luftwaffe was almost nonexistent after 1942?
Oh and also they didn't had enough fuel for their tanks 1943/44

>>688138039
>we could have done it if we wanted to, we just didn't feel like it
well yeah, they would say that wouldn't they?

>>688137800
"Little bit of oil" nigger are you joking? Also he didn't squander resource he equipped the army the wrong way for a winter war because he hoped to motivate them to take moscow before winter. Also do you really think the germans had a fun time in the winter? Heating your own body costs a lot of energy in those temperatures so even if you didn't die you weren't really fit too fight.

Source: work at a campsite in the netherlands and back in the day we had a few germans who fought in stalingrad. One lost his hand and the other an eye. Was amazed they were pretty nice people because i was pretty young and still had the idea all germans were hardcore nazi's. They just went there coz they were ordered too.

Also how come the luftwaffe would lose so many planes with a pincer?
>>688137765

>>688131127
For some people it was. For most it was a war where a whole bunch of assholes with idiotic ideas ruined everyones lives.

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>>688128419

The stupidest thing to do is to ignore history, and Hitler did that with his war in Russia.That and the japanese sealed it.

Also i have never quite gotten how the media always portray the united states as the great savior, they lost roughly 10k men fighting in Europe, Russia lost around a million in troops alone, add to that what the scorched earth tactics did for the civilian population in the areas where it was carried out.

>>688128419
2 things finished the brit and french forces at the battle of dunkirk and continue bombing RAF air fields instead of towns the bombing of the towns only made the brits fight harder and the RAF was on the brink

>>688138422
the Luftwaffe suffered a lot from the pincer because they were fighting 3 separate fronts by the time Operation Barb launched. they loss 40% of their bomber strength and 17% fighter strength just on Stalingrad, not to mention Goring couldn't do shit about supplies, if you were behind Russian lines and you ran out of ammo you were basically fucked.
the pincer was GREAT for the blitzkrieg and the ground, it was an absolutely logistics nightmare for the air.

>>688128419
maybe if they had sloped armor on their shitty tanks

>>688138547
the answer is that the USA made it rain on the uk/ussr
at one point i think like 90% of the ussr's supply chain was comprised of lend-lease american equipment

>>688138547
Yeah, charismatic populist ideologues are good at grabbing power, but that rosy idealism and pie-in-the-sky view of reality makes for a shitty military commander.

>>688138547
It is not the media itself that portrays some party to be the victor. It is the victor itself that does the portraying. History is always written by its victors.

>>688138913
>sloped armor
The japs were too busy building their own stuff

Not attacking Russia may have increased his chances

>>688138410
They could've, but as another Anon said, the program was shit. The American nuclear program was better funded, had more resources, more scientists to back it, actual facilities for research. It wasn't because they didn't feel like it; it was because they lacked the resources to do so.

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>>688129105
Mr. Skinner detected

>>688138274
>>688138422
They barely had enough tanks and planes to begin with.
They had 16 motor vehicles (tanks, planes, cars and trucks) for every 1000 citizens. The US military alone had over 200 motor vehicles for every 1000 citizens.
Their problem wasn't lack of oil, it was lack of manufacturing. Everything had to be perfect for the Germans, so they squandered resources in order to create the perfect product. Hence why Lebensraum was so important. If they had invested in mass production, they wouldn't need so much fucking resources to make such a small amount of munitions

Also, stfu about the winter meme. The invasion lasted years, not a fucking season. The Germans survived every winter in Russia. They got pushed back because their forces were too small to occupy such a large area. They had the men, they had the provisions, but they didn't have the munitions. They were too busy trying to perfect them. This had nothing to do with the season, and everything to do with German means of production. People only bring up winter because they're too stupid to understand what was really going on

>>688138782
aah thanks did not know that. Also how was hitler planning to take the whole f russia? country is fucking huge. Maybe his plan was to capture moscow and hope the russians would surrender. Also why the fuck did he set foot in africa? In my opinion not really that smart

>>688128419
Brit here.

His biggest mistake was trying to break the British people with civilian air raids instead of bombing industry and air fields. If he had focused on that instead, he may have been able to establish air superiority over Britain. From there, he could have bombed the shit out of the Royal Navy, which would have allowed him to invade the UK.

If he could have defeated the UK, he would have been able to free up more forces for use on the Eastern front against the USSR. The USSR would have also had less support, as British fleets were crucial in protecting allied convoys to the USSR. This would have caused Moscow and other major cities to fall faster, allowing him to occupy the Soviet Union.

If the Soviet Union and UK had fallen, D-Day would have been impossible Hitler would probably sign some peace treaty with America and supported Japan's efforts in china. Hitler would be the master of most of the world.

Eastern front was definitely the problem.

In addition to the military aspects already mentioned, the propaganda fueled war in the east shifted the mood in the population.
Policy on both sides was not to take prisoners (or let the existing prisoners starve to death).

Compared to that fighting the brits and the us in the west was a fucking joke.
To this day germans remember what fighting at the eastern front meant.

>>688130059
churchill played hitler sacrificing civilian targets for raf ones

>>688139059
kek. underrated

>>688139063
there was no "not attacking" Russia. the Nazi Party believed all slavs were sub human nig Bolsheviks. it was all or nothing from the beginning.

>>688139127
the lack of tanks was compensatet by the strengh of the tank they had pretty much the best tanks until i think 44 when the russians got those new tanks

>>688129984
In 3 and a half hours, cant download just yet

>>688139179
True. Worst fighting, worst conditions, worst environment, worst resources, worst everything. Though modern wars may pale in their horror and brutality compared to ancient wars, the eastern front was as close as anythings come, and had its own new & unique set of horrors that modern technology brought.

>>688139152
Africa was probably the smartest thing he did.
Also, Russia is huge but most of it is filled with nothing. Even more so at the time. Russia is practically a European country, despite most of it being in Asia. Nobody needs to conquer Siberia. You only need to conquer the western portion where there's actual civilization
Russia as a country is huge, but Russia as a civilization is pretty confined.

>>688139127
Still not really certain about the winter part. But the production part I have never looked at in this way. Goddamn that explains why there were only few tiger tanks. It was a far superior tank to the sherman but just waaaaaay to few in numbers.

>>688128419
He could have been less antisemetic. All the jewish scientists fled to 'murica and built the A-bomb.
Imagine hitler with hydrogen bombs at his disposal. Would have been intense.

>>688139318
Having one great tank for every 20 decent tanks the enemy has is not a way to win a war.
See >>688133907
Even his generals thought their production and maintenance methods were fucked up

>>688135069
saw a stat once that said 80% of all males born in Russia in 1923 didn't survive the war

>>688139152
he was hoping they'd surrender, a combo of that, subjugating other Russians to fight against Bolshevism and all out annihilation. they were so high off of Poland and France that they thought they were literal gods.
not every battle will be won with good German-Prussian tactics though, sometimes you are going to lose to ultimate zerg rush meat shield Red Army.

>>688128419
if he had stop taking drugs and follow the generals advice, he would had won.

>>688138913
kill yourself

>>688139444
Why was africa so smart? Understood the the part about russia. Seems logical. Apparently there are still villages to this they where they still think a Tsar rules the country.

>>688139127
So you really don't think the winter contributed anything to a Russian dominance?

>>688133236
He could have taken all of the resources in africa. Imo the importance of the fights in africa really isnt being appreciated.

>>688128419
Don't let Hitler make the tactical decisions, he was a corporal for a reason, he was a moron when it came to making sound tactical decisions.
Cancel Operation Barbarossa, don't kill the Jews, there were around 2 million men who would have fought for Germany, lots of war heroes and officers from WW1 were gassed.
They were told not to invade Poland, Britfags declared war independently, you know what they're like, they would have fought them by themselves if they had to and probably eventually won.
Crazy bastards.

>>688139660
Lol well if his numbers were right, then the Russian army was 120x the size of every human that has ever lived or died on this earth.
So like >99% of all humans ever were Russians who died in WW2

>>688139660
Yeah they lost essentially an entire generation. It was talked about after the war, how few men there were out & about that werent either very little boys or very old men.

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>>688139999
check't

>>688140140
first and prolly last quads ill ever get

>>688140120
Fuck. Imagine being a Russian woman in those times. No men to fuck.

Or better yet a Russian man. All the pussy you can eat.

>>688130196
Eh if you knew would know how much of a threat communism was in that era in Germany. Hitler hated it and made sure to kill off the commies. Stalin just got through killing a fuck ton of his people "army generals and whatnot" so I'm sure that's the reason he signed the peace agreement.

>>688132324

The Japanese had the same problem. America didn't like the Japanese attacking China and subsequently began to limit our trade dealings with them. Oil was one of the last, if not the last thing to go. They saw us limiting our trade with them as an act of war and tried to hit us hard at pearl harbor in order to effectively knock us out of the Pacific theater

>>688139318
no. this is a common misconception. the Russian t-34 was the best thing on the battlefield until 1943 and the Panther and Pumas started rolling out.
the reason the Wehrmacht was so successful in tank confrontations with Russia was because of superior training and organization.
Russian training and leadership was so damn bad in 41, that most of the tanks were done after one single engagement. there was no plan to refuel, reload, repair, recrew, nothing. once you left HQ, that was it, kiss your mother goodbye, one way tickets to the Frontline basically. god help you if you were a Russian tank commander in the early years and not 44-45.

>>688128419
Yeah its funny, how there are all these famous little moments and innovations that could have decided the war in germanys favor, and yet you can look at other major details and just as easily conclude that they never stood a chance at winning that thing from the start.

I guess thats what makes it interesting enough to still be talking about it today.

>>688140240
Pussy is about the only thing you'd be able to eat, while starving and freezing your nuts off. No thanks.

>>688128593
Supposedly Hitler was sick with dysentery when orders were being given. His commanders wanted an all out assault while Hitler had plans to send his forces in 3 different directions. One farther north one through the middle and one through the East to cut off their oil supply which would have crippled them. I still have no idea why they would betray their agreement though. It was a gamble.

>>688128419
Had Hitler not been blind by his own ignorance, and moved more troops towards the beach of Normandy, instead of focusing on Patton's fake battalion, then yes, he would have been a step forward in the war.

>>688139937
Africa is very resource rich, and it was some of their best fighting in all of the war. Thats why people still respect Rommel. It would've been a very easy territory to hold had he focused his attention on it more.
However, like with Russia, Hitler squandered those resources and barely made use of them.

Why are people so hung up on the winter thing? The invasion lasted 3+ years! They took most of Russia's industrialized land and held it for years. And yet people still think they lost because Germans got cold.

Seriously, people legitimately think that Germans only lost in Russia because they attacked them during winter. As if Germans weren't prepared for a little cold so the fighting was over in one season.
Either that or they think Russia is like westeros where winter lasts for years at a time. Either way, they're wrong.

>>688138547
Because it's not number of casualties or troops committed that win a war, it's logistics and equipment. The US provided the allies, including Russia, tons of equipment through our supply chain. If the US didn't bolster the forces Hitler stood a good chance at victory.

>>688140397
After the war you dipshit.
You'd be able to fuck loads of bitches, being the only young man in town.
In fact, that explains why slavs all look like inbred mongs.

>>688140618
Sure, because economies thrive when there are very few young men who can work and produce goods.

>>688140378
>>688139617
the panther was used 1941 against the russians 1944 they got the new t-34 with the bigger guns and more armor but yea in the end what can the germans do against around 80.000 tanks

>>688129105
Yet he accomplish more than your family will in a millennium - if not, more.

So weird how civil we can be in a thread about Germany winning WWII.

>>688140534
i think people think the winter thing is a big deal because the winter thing is always used to highlight what killed Germany: supply issues.
they starved and froze to death and hauled gas tanks on their backs because the Luftwaffe couldn't supply them anymore.
that wasn't winter, that was the fall of the Luftwaffe right there.

>>688140240
Think of how big the russian (& german) population would be today if they hadn't annihilatted each other like that & lost so much. ...& pissed away their entire economies. It[s a fucking testament to Russians that after the war, when all europe could do was rebuild itself, Russia still pulled it together to fund the space race and a half a century of cold war.

there is no way that hilter would have won second WWII except he had the atomic bomb first

>>688140771
Motor vehicles made the difference in the war. The German military still had over a million horses deployed because they didn't think that motor vehicles would make too much of a difference. They made some great tanks and planes but they didn't make enough of them to make a difference in their war effort. They made just enough to conquer via blitzkrieg, but not nearly enough to occupy territory

>>688141006
>second WWII

WWII: 2
The Rise of Trump

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>>688141006
Nigger, what language are you trying to speak in?

>>688140771
i hate to be like this, but the first sentence on wiki literally says when the panther was deployed. are you confusing the panther with the tiger? because they had the tiger by 42.
the good German armor is the stuff that is sloped and moves well in all terrain, didn't start coming til around 43-44.

In the end it all doesnt matter- they lost the war but they still own europe

>>688141111
check'd
>>688141082
kek'd

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>>688140745
valid point nigger. Would fuck myself in to my casket do.

>>688141241
moar pics plox
who is she

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>>688141152
Pretty sure the jews own Europe.

>>688140864
It's such an annoying misunderstanding. You can observe how many people are ignorant of this just by reading this thread.

>>688140534
>>688140864
winter fucked the supply line and scorched earth made it almost impossible to stay able to fight i read somewhere that it also was a pretty bad winter, and don't forget the thing goebbles suggested to hitler he said to wait with further expansion untill they have enough wool for the winter clothings but hitler just kept pushing until he realised that he got fucked
>>688141029
as far as i remember the horses were merely used to scout and for communication when it was better to use horses instead of a motorcycle

>>688140896
Well you can if you don't feed half your country.
It was a bit like having a PS4 or feed your children.

>>688141551
Which winter was that exactly?

>>688141136
oh shit you're right i was looking at the wrong date
1942 they actualy built the prototypes and 1943 they were deployed

>>688141340
no fucking idea

>>688140745
...
>>688140896

I wouldnt say the soviet economy was thriving, because they rolled 110% of their $ into their defense industry, but still, they did better than europe, which had the benefit of nearly disbanding their costly militaries, and getting shitloads of their $ back from USA to rebuild their cities.

Russia got fuck all, and understandably it's taken a lot longer for them to rebuild, AND managed to produce enough to fund an oppressive soviet admin bloodsucker gov, invented a fuckton of aerospace, materials, mathematics, and high-energy particle physics advances, all while standing in fucking breadlines.

It's apples to oranges, but when you compare them, the russian oranges are some formidable fuckin oranges. It'll take then another few decades to a century to keep recovering, but I have no doubt, they'll be a fucking force to be reckoned with again before too long. It;s the european frontier. Frontierspeople are a fiesty bunch.

>>688141551
Horses were used for a variety of purposes. Everything from scouting to transport to mere cannonfodder. They had over a million horses. They had more horses than they had motor vehicles, a notion that's laughable by any military standard post WW1

>>688129639
He also fucked that up by ordering his fighters to fly along side the bombers and to always stay where the bombers could see them to provide a moral boost to the crew inside, instead of flying ahead of the bombers and actually clearing out any fighters before they could be a threat to the bombers

>>688141818
Russia was never really a great country, and will probably not rise to legitimate superpower status again. Russia always had lots of manpower but little else. The country and people are a logistical nightmare.

germany could have taken russia if japan had opened a second eastern front.

>>688130164
Hipster detected.

>>688141716
i think it was 43 right before the russians started hitting back hard with better generals but that didn't matter realy it was over for the germans by that time

>>688128419
>"the war"
Setting aside the fact that it was a number of smaller wars, a number of which started before Hitler rose to power...

No. Their is no possibility that Hitler could have won the war under any circumstances, amd if his military officials had obeyed his orders unquestioningly, he would have lost it sooner.

>>688141969
yeah, USAF stopped playing defense on their bombers and would sweep ahead, this wrekt the Luftwaffe pretty hard because prior they were mostly engaging bomber squadrons.
the Junkers and Messers had poor range.

>>688141886
Guess they should have used that for food supplys

Also why the fuck is everyone hating on italy? They weren't that bad

>>688128419
To win he would have to take down the 300k brits at the start and not invade Russia.

>>688141551
There wasn't just a winter. There were 3. Germany kicked ass through winter.
Also, scorched earth didn't make as much as a difference as you seem to believe. In fact, it's one of the most incredibly exaggerated things of the war. It's used to teach middle schoolers why the Germans lost.
In reality, Germany seized most of Russia's resources during their occupation. They simply chose not to utilize these resources due to focus on the western front and general German inefficiency. Germans had the provisions, but not the munitions, so they were pushed back.

However,this is too complicated to explain to kids in highschool so they just teach them that Russia burned everything in their country and then the Germans got cold because it was winter.

Protip: if scorched earth made as much of an impact as you suggest then Russia would've crumbled with Germany. Instead, they bounced back. The resources were there, the Germans just chose not to use them

>>688141969
You fucking kidding? Was he that stupid?

>Franz! Do you zink zhat Carl in der Messerschmidt looks pretty today?
>Ja! He looks very toll
>Ich kan not wait for the verdamte russians to sehen this

Hitler's goal was never to win, you idiots. A failed extermination of the Jews benefits only one demographic, and that is the Jews. Shit, the guy's father was a Jew himself, he did this to benefit his slimy Jewish race in this ridiculous and elaborate ruse. Hell, the extermination likely never happened too. I mean, where did the millions of tons of ash go to?

>>688142541
all 3 winters fucked germany up thats true but scorched earth just made it worse for resupplying and using the seized terretory i mean all that coal and iron but no tools to use them realy

im german and i got thaught we lost the war because hitler was a maniac a pedophile and so on but we never realy spoke about the war so they didn't even mention scorched earth or the cold russian winter all we got was BLITZKRIEG HERE AND THERE and that was pretty much 8 years of history lessons(not to mention 6 out of the 8 years were about concentration camps)

>>688142735
>Millions of tons of ash
Do you think one burnt body produces a ton of ash? If millions were burnt, there wouldn't be millions of tons. There would just be tons.

>>688143066
one year for every million killed jews.... goddamn i bet they would extend history lessons if more were killed. 6million/8million lesson plan

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If he came to power in America in 2015 he would've eventually won since his whole rise to power was based on a lie that his policies were in the best interest of "public safety"

>>688143066
It's much more complicated than that. You lost due to manufacturing inefficiency, cryptography, and allied strategic bombing.
If the Germans weren't inefficient then they could've used the Russian resources (yes the supply chains remained unbroken by the fake notion of scorched earth) but the German people were too proud of their work to believe in mass production.
That, coupled with allied intelligence, was your downfall

Seriously, if scorched earth was as important as history teachers suggest, then Russia would've been in a depression for decades. You can't destroy your entire industrialized territory and then suddenly become industrialized again a year later. It takes decades to rebuild what scorched earth theorists suggest was destroyed.
Yes, scorched earth happened. Some farmers destroyed their crops during the German invasion. But it was hardly a factor. Germany had enough provisions to conquer and even to occupy for awhile. They just didn't have the equipment to keep advancing, so while they occupied the Russians got stronger (something that would've been impossible if scorched earth was a thing)

>>688142735
>Millions of tons of ash
Do people produce more ash than they originally weighed when they're cremated?

>>688143079
What are you stupid?

>>688129964
kill yourself

>>688143871
I'm not the one who thinks there would be millions of tons of ash from the Holocaust

>>688139127
why dont you know the difference between a meme and a misnomer?

>>688143859
When cremated, humans produce on average about four pounds of ash. I'd say about two million Jews were actually cremated so this would make four billion pounds of ash.

>>688144061
Refer to:
>>688144238

>>688144145
That's not a misnomer though. A misnomer refers to a name or designation. The winter thing isn't a name, it's a concept

>>688144238
Gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8/8

>>688144238
math much?

>>688144298
Its still not a meme, its also laughable to think it made no difference. Sure it wasnt the defining reason for defeat but it still undermined the integrity of their infantry

the more i read about The Nazi Invasion of The soviet union, the more i realize Hitler should never have been in control of the military, He did basically the exact opposite of what his advisers said nearly every time.they told him Russia posed little threat at that moment and any occupation would cause an economic drain, but he didn't want to hear that,

>>688128473

This is the only really good answer.

He also was a retard for declaring war on the United States when he didn't have to.

A few things would need to happen. Beat america to the nuke. Took moscow before winter. Hitler not go batshit insane and fought off d-day and kept it a 1 front war. He was pretty fucked though if the war went any longer and america got the nuke it wouldn't matter if he did everything else.

>>688144468
I never said it made no difference, I'm just saying it's not the sole reason.
I've literally heard people say "if Hitler waited until the summer to invade..."
People literally think the Russian invasion happened during a single winter,as if Germans got there, got cold, and went home.
The winter misconception (happy?) Is one of the most perpetuated theories about WW2

>>688128419
yes but he didnt