>>687500409
Communism

>>687500409
Terrible chart. Conservatives and libertarians should be switched. Liberalism is now the same as socialism. Literally no differences in beliefs.

>>687500522
Seconded

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>>687500409
In the middle of liberalism and socialism if I had to say.
Environmentalism is the focus of most of my politics and takes precedent over anything else

>>687500612
found it on google images, im pretty fucking stupid when it comes to politcal views ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>687500409
Libertarian

>>687500788
Retard

>>687500612
It would be wise for you to read a book or two before you type with your cunt fingers

kind of liberal
doesn't exactly apply to my country though

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>>687500522
>>687500656
>>687500744
Ignorant jackoffs detected. Fuck your commie bullshit. Apparently you've learned nothing from history and know nothing of human nature. Base instincts must be directed and harnessed for real progress to be made.

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Name one exception to this rule.
That isn't yourself ofcourse because as Diogenes proved everyone is an honest man if you ask them and of course can't name any others

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>>687500409
Much better pic for dumbass OP.

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take a guess

>>687500409
This should not be a linear chart.

>>687501336
>base instincts must be directed and harnessed to make any real progress
That can be said about anywhere on that spectrum.
Fuck off with your vague nonsense

>>687501336
hi my name is anon and i belive all those who disagree with me should die
have a nice day!

>>687500409
Moderate. The center is in the center for a reason.

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>>687502061
>i agree anon!
this explains the right wing very well i guess

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>>687501336
Righto because a Hobbes anarchy would be a pleasant place to live.
Autistic jackoffs like you are what is wrong with the west. Go suck on a corporate CEO's donger a bit more.

>>687501712
"Liberals" as expressed in the U.S. would be halfway between Totalitarians and Statists on this chart.

chaotist

Conservatives = Republicans = BAD/Evil/Ignorant

Liberals = Democrats = GOOD/Caring/Inteligent

>>687502374
Wrong.
The liberals described by conservatives are more often than not progressives or right of center liberals
People that self identify as liberal in the US are usually somewhere within social democracy and liberalism

>>687500409
libertarian

>>687502805

/thread

i think anybody who chooses to label themselves to fit in with another group of people based on an all encompassing group of beliefs is fucking retarded

politcal parties are stupid and the #1 reason why gubmint is such a hot mess in the US

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>>687502991
Oh really, my extremely conservative family usually describes liberals as somewhere between Hitler and Stalin.

>>687500777
What a waste of trips. Fuck off with your fag emoji's. Fucking newfag.

>>687500409
That chart is fucking retarded

things that are objectively bad: ultra-progressivism, authoritarianism, any of the extreme positions, fascism, social conservatism, communism

>>687503349
im sure thats the last time in history we see a trips

>>687503589
you forgot political parties

Да здравствует Советский Союз if that gives you an idea OP

>>687502805
What kind of a world do you live in?

>>687500409
Worst chart I have ever seen
How is libertarianism closer to fascism, and further from liberalism, than conservatism?

>>687500409
i firmly believe in republican values. To create cohesion in society by political symbols and participation in the gestion of the state. fight me

>>687500409
>>687501712
>>687502333
Bumping for more pics like these

>>687500409
Anarcho-capitalism. Also, next time try to find at least political compas, instead of this abomination.

I am not sure what does US people consider to be Libertarianism, but i have my doubts it belongs between conservatism and fascism.

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>>687500409

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>>687504482

This general is going to make everyone realize that libertarians are actually leftists. You'll see.

That chart is wildly inaccurate too. For instance, fascism doesn't exist on one side or the other, it's a mode of both sides. These moronic liberals act as though fascism only exists on the right. Same thing with nationalism vs. globalism. They're simply modes. It's a learning curve I suppose. But think about it this way, Hitler's Nazi party was a fascist, socialist, nationalist party. Whereas Stalin had a fascist, communist, globalist government.

Moderates are not in the middle, either. If you take a so called moderate and dissected their stances, you'd see they're always leftists. It's just that there's such a pull to the left, that a middle stance still fits in the left and then some.

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>>687504815
>personal freedom and economic freedom are different things
How did it come to this?

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Libertarian Capitalist so in between conservative and libertarian.

>>687500409
Libertarian, lack of government/lack of "one state" demanding/regulating everything

So almost the opposite of Fascism, which holds the idea of union between business & state, with high regulations

Fascism also holds the ideas of planning economy, being anti-democr., nationalism. Which Libertarian's would be against.

Sure its closer to Fascism than communism.. But I see it as the "extreme" middle political stance. Lack of government power, gov. should only care about protection (police, army etc.) and let the people create "laws" for businesses.

(as in instead of saying "X" can't use "Y" in their product, people should know that "Y" is in there & maybe they skip buying that product)

Close to anarchy but whole different story.


[You could even call it true capitalism]

Lololol guys I'm a communist, aren't I so edgy???

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>>687505231
What do you mean libertarians aren't right wing?
I would understand if you said favoring non intervention in social issues, or else having liberal social values, makes you left wing, but then surely fascism would be right wing by necessity?
You seem confused and inconsistent

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Socialist

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>>687505527
Is libertarian capitalist an actual thing?

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>>687500744
>>687500522
>>687500656

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>>687501700
what's it like being a libcuck?

>>687500522
Honestly, i am on the opposite side of the spectrum, but i like much more commusts, that social democrats, liberals or tother "communists-light" faggots. Commies are at least honest abotu taking your stuff.

Commies have ideas. Not like moderate shits, who believe in spineless, principless utiliratism.

>>687505916
Yes. That's pretty much what you are, you're just closer to anarchism. You might be an anarchist capitalist.

Libertarian Slight Left (weak social democracy with emphasis on personal freedom)

>>687501700
Me

>>687500612
I would disagree on the liberalism, its more liberalism is now progressive

>>687505798
Just ask /pol/

I'm not confused. You're the uneducated one. Fascism is a mode. It has no stance on social values. You seem to be associating previously used fascist values to fascism. Think of fascism as a mode to micromanage or dictate everything according to a set of values, be it left or right. It'll make more sense for you then.

Libertarianism is the same thing, but opposite. If you ask anyone from Europe or anywhere else, they'd be confused when you claim libertarianism is on the right, cause theirs is on the left. Well you're both wrong. It's a mode used by the left or right, but doesn't reside on either one in particular.

I hope this helps you.

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Moderate, trump is stupid, Hilary is stupid. Nobody fucking wins

I don't even know anymore. Somewhere to the left, but the way the parties have mutated leaves me unwilling to support any of them. And there's no goddamn way I'd ever identify with a rightwing party either.

I've taken to just calling myself "cynical" when it comes to political affiliation; I certainly have my own values and ideas which might line up with some groups, but I'm too disillusioned with how it's all structured to justify joining any of them.

>>687505278
That kinda bothers me, too, Anon.

>>687505278
ever since someone loaned someone money and charged interest

>>687505916
Isnt Libertarianism just anarchism for rich?

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>>687507055
So basically you're using a special snowflake definition of fascism which has never existed in history.
Most people understand fascism to mean radical authoritarian nationalism

>>687505582
>union between business & state
this is ultimately what libertarians will achieve

>>687500409
I honestly have no idea. I prefer to concentrate on issues as they are on their own without adopting a general position. I might be conservative about some things, and possibly even communistic about other things.

>>687507328
What are your values and ideas, Anon?

>>687500409
too bad fascism is a leftist ideology

>>687507601
http://interglacial.com/pub/text/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html

>>687507694
This

>>687502991
is this a meme?

>>687507055
I think the word you're talking about is Authoritarianism

>>687507587
Hahaha I like your definition.

I think everyone should work. Live within their means and stop whining like a bitch. What party is that?

>>687507587
No it's less extreme anarchism. We still want government, just very limited government.

>>687507973
Libertarianism. The party of freedom of choice + fiscal responsibility.

>>687507973
You can't just give basic ideas and be put into a group. You need to show economic and social main ideas that you have for us to even place you anywhere on the spectrum.

>>687500409
>Libertarianism so close to fascism
But fascism is leftist.

>>687507973
But that's mainly libertarian.

>>687508240
Yeah this chart sucks.

>>687500409
Communistic socialist liberal moderate conservative facist

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>>687507587
Anarchism for everybody tbh
Everybody would benefit

>>687507055
libertarianism is considered right wing because it can not be economically left wing
It doesn't have to be right wing exactly either.
I can agree that fascism can be used by left wing too. I m not sure if it still is fascism or left wing anymore though

>>687508240
>fascism is leftist
this is a terrible meme

I'm down with the syndrome

>>687502333
nice trips, but that picture is dumb

>>687500409
Im a traditional anarchist. So I'm a socialist libertarian. I fit everywhere in your fucking chart.

>>687508410
Impressive

>>687507601
I'm really not. You're not understanding. I gave you two examples of left leaning fascism, nazi's and commies, nationalist and globalist respectively. Yet, for some reason you're claiming it to be on the right. It can be either or.

>radical authoritarian nationalism
How could that not be on either side, left or right? And it doesn't have to be nationalist, because when you try spreading your set of values to the rest of the world, you're globalist.

In fact, most often fascism leans left because it's built in the definition of liberalism. More laws. Enforcing those laws.

You guys are so confused on this matter it hurts.

>>687500409
Moderate, maybe a little left of center.

>>687508456
Hitler's party was National Socialists

>>687508456
Nominally private ownership but state regulation and a lot of public spending too

>>687508003
Honestly, i though its anarchism argued for from right / capitalist positions.

>>687508570
Are you fucking idiot? Anarchism means no state and socialists want more of it.

>>687506868
liberalism is regressive, if you do not see this than you are the cancer

>>687507309
Trump and Hitlary are both moderate

>>687508603
I need to get those votes.

>>687507973
When we had communist party here in easter europe, you had to work*, or be jailed. Whining wasnt really tolerated either.

Just to offer you some other options apart libertarianism as other anons suggested.
___
*or rather, be employed.

>>687508911
Anarchism means stateless communism. It is a branch of socialism, and split up from marxist communist after the 2nd internationale.

Learn your fucking facts faggot

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>>687500409
> implying communism isn't fascism

http://www.strawpoll.me/10369574

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Its so much shit that makes me confuse, if its bait or if americans are really retarded. I know that the definition of left and right changes from place to place, but roughly its: left = more government, and right = less government. Anarcocapitalist, libertarian ultra right here

>>687508440
no.. a select few will gather some muscle and rob/murder/rape/enslave everyone. With anarchism a very select few benefit, some dont have it that bad, the majority is fucked.

For libertarians, the one and only job for the governement is to prevent this from happening.

>>687508570
Hi. I am anarcho-capitalist. How do you think socialist part of your opinion would be implemented in anarchistic society? Just out of curiosity. Thank you.

>>687508570
So basically you're wet fire and you should kill yourself

>>687509211
obvious trolling is obvious

>>687500409
Why the fuck would you put left wing in blue (especially motherfucking communism) and right wing in red ?

>>687509395
I have no problem with american libertarians. I just think you'll have a nasty surprise once you stop feeding the police with tax paying money and workers start to take over your factories and industries.

Communism occurs naturally on a stateless society, as the small numbers are no longer protected by the state from the masses

Also no probs

>>687508440
I somewhat agree.

>>687508456
>National socialism:
>public healthcare
>state controlled production and wages
>cheap cars for the workers
>kill the rich elite

facism is socialism with an army to enforce it, nothing more, nothing less

>>687501712
Slightly left activism. Authorism bullshit is worse than any left or right policies.

>>687509346
Vote me i support the second amendnent and marijuana legalisation

>>687507954
I would say it's synonymous. The problem is, fascists have almost always been left, despite people claiming otherwise. So if fascism is right wing authoritarianism, what is left wing authoritarianism? And why would Nazi's, left wing for all intents and purposes, be considered fascist? It's synonymous, and we shouldn't worry about fascism. Right wing is conservative. It's hard to be authoritarian being a conservative. Get it? You're falling for the other side's spin on historical right wing's party's values. You're falling for the right wing white male racist meme.

>>687508450
It's a mode. Fiscally conservative is conservative and libertarian in effect, but culturally libertarian is left.

The reason why this is difficult is because each side has contradicting values. The democrats and republicans have been assimilating each other over the years for votes. It's basically runaway popularism. Democrats used to be the KKK remember, but they'll have you believe Republicans are the racists. Critical Theory can be blamed when you look at leftist's contradictory values. They can call the right fascist while spending all day making more laws for people to adhere to their culturally leftist values. It's why they can censor hate speech and people fall for it.

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>>687508911
your understanding of socialism is stupid

many socialists actually want to build a stateless society and strugle for autonomy and local government

>>687500409
This chart is so fucking off.

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>>687509603
I am not even sure what does american libertarian means. While i suppose dissolving police could be problematic, i dont think workers would take over factories. I AM worker and i dont know shit about the machines i worh with. I need those white colar fuckers. (That said, we probably tried to squeeze more money out of our employer - which would be only right, since he wont need to sent so much to establishment.)

>>687509181
This is called anarcho-communism

>>687509181
>stateless communism
>healthy cyanide
>high pressure vacuum
>long asian penis
>100% meat tofu
>...

Get your head out your ass you massive faggot, stop just cherrypicking the best shit from completely opposite ideologies and thinking they can be combined. How the fuck can anyone even be remotely communist, we have seen it tried and fail a dozens of times already

>>687509346
>a select few will gather some muscle and rob/murder/rape/enslave everyone
Ancaps have good reason to doubt that though.
Just realise that people will pay a lot of money to not be murdered / stolen from. More than enough to make the situation you described unlikely.
I could go into it in more depth
Look it up

>>687509491
See
>>687509181

Anarchism was hijacked by the right wing in the USA after the death of Sacco and Vanzetti, Chomski is the last of our kind in your joke of a country. But get your eyes out of your ass and see whats going on in other country and you'll sound less retarded

>>687510335
Which IS anarchism.

>>687510304
>I need those white colar fuckers.
No you don't and it will become apparent when you are next to the wall.
The question is, how would people reorganize in a society without coercion - and that's where anarchist manuals like the Conquest of the Break (Kropotkine) come handy.
Pretty much agree on the rest.

>>687510438
retard

>>687510438
That doesn't mean his utopia vision can't be what he says

>>687502333
wtf is this shit, it's way more complex than that, con vs lib can't be put into an image form since the spectrum is so complicated e.g neo-lib and classical lib being completely different from regressive lib, same goes for neocons and paleocons

>>687509793

You are wrong
fascists states have private property, corporatist culture, the bourgeoisie as the elite. Hitler and Mussolini were sponsored by big bourgeoisie. Also fascists favor a rigid vertical of power and slave holder morality. Socialists in the other hand stand for the internationalism and distribution of power among the workers' councils..
"socialistic" in the name of the Nazi Party - it's just an attempt to play on the popular trends of labor movements, nothing more. You'd know that if you understood the historical situation of those times.

Slightly left-leaning anarchist here. Also, fuck the anarcho-communists. That's a self-contradictory term and they're too blinded by their ideological lens to see it.

>>687510478
people dont have a lot of money when they got robbed in the first place and will thus be enslaved, this cannot be more clear. Please go into it more depth because you cannot defend this.

>>687510725
I have just been told for the 9001th time that my edgy political views are impossible so the guy who told me must be a retard and i'll not provide any arugments at all.

>>687510777
yes it does

>>687509975
Other fag here. What do you mean when you say "socialism"? Do you mean forced redistribution of values? (Emphasis on forced.) That's definition of socialism we, right-wingers, use and that's why we have problem with that.

I believe there's other word for voluntary economic association of people...? Syndycalism, perhaps? (I dont really know)

>>687511188
corporate ownership was 'private', yet the state controlled what would be produced, in which quantity, to whom it would be sold, at what price, and what the wages were for the workers.
Also hitler was the first to introduce public healthcare in europe.
The bougeoisie elite were the Jews

This is socialism at its finest

>>687511223
> that my edgy political views are impossible
>What is the Makhnovtchina
>What is the Commune

I'm open to debate but provide something else than name calling for me to consider you

>>687500409
it entirely depends on what definitions of socialism,liberal, and libertarian are. i fall into the liberal libertarian category, in that i believe the sole purpose of the government should be to protect the public (firemen, police, military), regulate private industry (health and safety standards, workman's comp, independent tests of supplements/drugs before they can come onto the market), and offer education and healthcare to those who cannot/do not have private health insurance. our government should be as transparent as possible, with all bills put on public record before being enacted, and all possible conflicts of interest should be made public (although personally i would prefer an election system where we start with a pool of candidates that get equal amounts of advertisement time/money to be invested as the party sees fit, with regular intervals during which the pool is thinned so that third/fourth party candidates get more outreach so we can prevent a one or two party system reigning). additionally, i believe individual rights to guns, weed, booze, etc should not be infringed upon unless the individual is deemed a danger to the public or mentally unstable. personally, i think guns should be treated like cars. public schools can offer educational courses for those of an appropriate age (parents who wish to teach their kids gun safety before that can do so, if they wish), and in order to get a license you must prove proficiency in use and safety. those with military service or similar can, possibly, get the testing waived if their training is sufficient. i'm also in favor of a progressive income tax, capping out at ~30% (currently it tops out at something like 33-35%) but i would eliminate various tax loopholes, yada yada yada. you've all heard this schtick before.

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>>687500409
Vegetarian

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>>687511223
If a poor person has property worth a dollar, he will pay more to protect it than you will pay to steal it.
He will probably pay more than a dollar (since it has sentimental value, and getting robbed is just scary anyway)
You will pay less than a dollar to try and steal it (since a dollar can be used to buy anything, not just one specific thing which probably isn't to your taste)

REMEMBER: the poor person doesn't have to pay enough to make it impossible to steal from him, just enough to make it unprofitable to steal from him.

>>687510438
Actually the failure of communism happened once. The colapse of the USSR was logically followed by the collapse of the number of socialist states.
I bet you don't understand why communism failed. All you have is like
>hurp durp unefficient shitty economy
>hurp derp stalin mao tyrany
>no competition and democracy
>freedom murica fuck yeaaah

But actually reasons of soviet failure are much more complicated

>>687511501
i made a statement, you said retard, this is not debate.

but i'll give you another chance, please provide a counterargument to the statement: Communism and anarchism cannot be combined for one desperately needs an all powerfull governement to ensure the system doesnt collapse on itself, and the other is opposed to any form of authority.
And this one: Communism has been tried and failed dozens of times, why the fuck does anyone still believe it can be done

>>687510725
>No you don't
I love when people tell me what i do and do not need.

I need to read more books by leftist anarchists, i admit.

>>687500409
Fascist Socialist

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>>687500409

extreme far right, like all humans should be

>>687512310
Stomp the Stormnigger.

>>687501700

i don't exist

>>687511981
Perhaps you are right and it is possible for communism to work. Fail to see how a totalitarian regime to particularly anarchistic, yes of course the despots will willingly give up all their power for the good of the people...just have to keep waiting.

>>687511981
We're not talking about the collapse, we're talking about the general failure in raising living standards and preventing mass starvation and impoverishment. Compared to the alternatives.
Which dramatic failure we see not only in the Soviet Union but every time it has been tried.

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Anarcho-Syndicalist here.

A dual Axis chart would be better than this, as we have Authoritarian Left and Right along with Libertarian Left and Right.


This is closer to a decent representation, but still a poor representation.

>>687507587
no, its actual anarchism. left-wing anarchism/anarcho-communism, is communism in disguise.

>>687511755
When it is unprofitable to steal from someone, you enslave them, make them pick cotton for you which you can sell. You really have no imagination do you? You would be among the first to die in an anarchistich society.

Also i would reccomend you to watch the movie 'Hobo with a shotgun' it's pretty close to what an actual anarchistic society would look like (implying society wouldn't entirely crumble)

>>687511981
i don't even care about stalin or mao, tyrany is just a logical part of communism, it doesnt work without tyrany. The thing is when you get no competition you get a shit economy and that is failure

>>687511627
>i think guns should be treated like cars
While i disagree, i cant help but like the way you think about this.

>>687511487
>corporate ownership was 'private', yet the state controlled what would be produced, in which quantity, to whom it would be sold, at what price, and what the wages were for the workers.
This is one of the dictionary key pieces of the definition of fascism -- private ownership, at least nominally, with government control, along with strong nationalism.

>>687501336
You're someone who can't see that living together means progress.

I'm not a Communist, but I'm a Socialist.
I think everyone should have a more equal amount of money BUT, you should be allowed to earn more if you deserve it (people like doctors, researchers, engineers)

Yet I don't think everyone is equal, It's my opinion

>>687512000
>Nice trips

Alright, I'll bite.
>Communism and anarchism cannot be combined for one desperately needs an all powerfull governement to ensure the system doesnt collapse on itself, and the other is opposed to any form of authority.

Anarchism is not opposed to "any form of authority", it's opposed to a centralized authoritarian state. Smaller nodes of powers, where the individual can have a say in collective decision, can exist and enforce the will of the masses.

I see no contradiction but please, if you see one please say so.

>Communism has been tried and failed dozens of times, why the fuck does anyone still believe it can be done

State Communism has been tried and worked better than previous models, namely tsarism in russia. During communist Russia, the status of the workers drastically improved compared to their lot under the tsar. It failed only when placed in a state of global cold warfare against countries that did not had to recover from a ground invasion. That argument is pointless.

>>687500409
I think a 2d political compass is more useful then the one dimensional spectrum you posted.

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>>687512631
Where I would fall on a 2 axis chart

When will the "facism is far right" meme end

>>687512765
I hate this babel-like mess in language.

>>687506868
>liberalism
>progressive
are you retarded? it has turned into islam-loving, freedom of speech hating, misandrist, multiculturalist suicidal insanity

>>687511422
socialism is diverse like every other political school of though.
If we are talking about classic marxist's scientific socialism, it has a vast number of variations too.
history of the Bolsheviks and Lenin is as follows:
During the First World War the Bolshevik party was not a party at all, but the wing of the RSDLP (Russian Social Democratic Labour Party). The Bolsheviks then were almost the only ones who did not betray the workers and openly opposed the war. While other socialdemocratic parties standed for interests of their countrie's goverment, while workers of different nations killed each other for interests of the bourgeoisie.
Lenin then slowly began to call himself a communist, to differentiate from the rest. Since then, the Social Democrats - it's almost a curse among the radical left.

National Socialist

>>687513073
when it no longer suits the liberal left

>>687512765
>no, its actual anarchism
Libertarianism is far from anarchism. Anarchism is closer to a failed state that cannot protect the basic rights of its citizens.

A government should have the power to protect rights like life, liberty, and property, and not be empowered, by the people, to restrict those things. Then you don't get censorship and jailing of gays and a slow economy because nobody paid their kickback tax for the honor of inventing an iPhone.

>>687512821
You really don't understand the fact that private companies can supply defence and arrest criminals.
Stop being so retarded and sucking state dick.
It is completely easy to kill hobos with shotguns and I would be the first entrepreneur to set up my firm protecting people.
Break the conditioning lad
FYI current spending on police is only a few dollars a week in most countries. Just in case you were worried

>>687512026
I firmly believe your immediate interest in the case of the police magically disapearing would be to organize with your fellow workers to protect your goods and to insure the continuity of the production.

By doing so, the knowledge of how to use the machines will quickly spread among you to the point you have no use for a supervizor. really it's not an appeal to morality, but an appeal to interest and human nature.

>>687513356
Thank you for answer.

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>Both the Republican and Democrat nominees have large groups of people that hate them
>Libertarians think it's finally their opportunity to get voters
>Spend their time debating the legality of selling heroine to 5 year olds
JUST

It's literally more respectable to label yourself as some extremist. Libertarianism is Reddit - the ideology.

>>687512886
(thats the same as socialism, except it has the word national in front of it)

>>687500409
This isn't even remotely true

>>687500409
>>687500522
liberalism and conservatism don't belong on this chart because they aren't inherently associated with economics. It should be communism on the left and anarcho capitalism on the right. Fascism can't be placed anywhere on this chart since it doesn't have any inherent economic model.

>>687512571
I think (and I'm not the only one who thinks that way in political science) that the general failure of the communist idea is actually a general failure of the Enlightenment project, which began in the 18th century. So to say the finishing touch.
The idea of scientific planning of the economy, f rational distribution of resources and deliverance of man from economic coercion will find other ways to exists. Will it win in the end? Who knows.

>>687512853
thanks. here's my reasoning: the second amendment was written in a time where there was no centralized american military, and therefor the right for any and all individual citizens to keep and bear arms was necessary because any citizen could be called to defend his homeland under the banner of his local militia. in modern day US, we have had a very very powerful military for a long time, so the right to own a gun is no longer a necessity to protect one's countrymen. however, because it is in the constitution we absolutely cannot dismiss it entirely. i believe that in face of the lack of necessity for individuals to own a gun, the right is then delegated to one's right to protect themselves, their property, and their family. however, the unregistered transfer of firearms between questionably-trustworthy individuals is a dangerous proposition, especially since largescale manufacturers are able to inject their weaponry into the market without a guarantee that there is a paper trail (in the case of stolen guns or illegally/quietly obtained guns being used in a crime). i am a firm believer that any gun regulations done at a state-by-state or city-by-city basis are doomed to fail, because within 50 miles there is almost a guarantee that you'll be able to find an area that is much less strict. this is why places like detroit have insane gun violence, while also having strict gun control. it's not very hard to cross state lines, buy a gun legally under less restrictions, and come back into coonsville to shoot up the opps. to be clear: i am not stating there should be insane hoops to jump through, only that every sale of guns should be done over the counter, much like how we sell cars or booze or cigarettes. there are obviously faults to my reasoning, because i'm just one lazy faggot without decades of political expertise. feel free to poke holes in my reasoning, if you feel like it.

libertarian socialist m8

>>687500409
Ultra Radicalist, death penalty for any crime or offense. Removal of all defective foetus and children.

>>687514522
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBl_-CYGZys

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>>687500409
I dont know. Which of them would Form a Christian monarchy that would purge all jews niggers arabs degenerates and so on? Pic related would be a nice penalty for gays.

>>687507678
Yeah, but you took one part of one sentence and made your own verdict.. You're basically buzzfeed or fox news

>>687514522
Literally not real you faggot.

>>687500409
Drunk

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>>687500409
Heavily moderate

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>>687514116
Markets are pretty invaluable lad
Just promote competition and improve the distribution of knowledge throughout the economy.
Syndicalism should be voluntary and state control resisted

>>687514569
Agree on defective babies, otherwise laws are pretty good as is (as a whole, there is still some problems, ex. copyright problem)

>>687514753
muh ideology tho m8

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Right-wing Nationalist

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socialist because everyone deserves a livable, happy life free from struggle

>>687500409
This chart is retarded.

Anarchism ftw

>>687512821
Stop thinking with these cold war ideologems, mate.
tyrany isn't a logical part of communism.
Tyrany is a logical part of state. Do you really think that capitalists states don;t have tyrany or state violence?
And actually there was an element of competition in soviet economy, it was just different than in capitalist countries. Really, stop this bullshit.
I'm not a communist and don't want to defend them, but this standart way of though of yours is just right from the west propoganda.
I understand that the failure of soviet economy is so complex and so hard to understand without specific education. But you should at least try not to fall for socialist and capitalists propoganda alike,

>>687500788
me too!

>>687512924
>Smaller nodes of powers, where the individual can have a say in collective decision, can exist and enforce the will of the masses.

So it's democratic feudalism.. Yea i can not see this not leading to loads of conflict. With smaller nodes of powers, you have smaller groups of people controlling limited recources, which will have to be traded with other small communities. Those communities fortunate enough to have control over, let's say a powerplant, will have more power and more value than those communities having control over 2 archeological digsites and field full of cotton. This will lead to one community being richer and more powerfull than the other and it will ultimately absorb the smaller communities, this is how the world works, the strong prey on the weak this will never change. This reminds me of post apocalyptic games and series like fallout or walking dead or whatever where small communities arise and just go to war over recources.

Also the status of the european workers drastically improved compared to those of russian workers. Europe had to recover from a ground invasion aswell. Being less succesfull than the other is failure

>>687515228
bait

>>687500409
Totalitarianism

>>687514156
Nope.

Never gettin' my guns

Move to Eurocuckland.

>>687513946
The private companies who can supply defence and arrest criminals, can just as easily enlist criminals and supply you with a chain.

without law there is no freedom, this should not be hard to comprehend

>>687515748
did i say i wanted to take your guns? no, i did not. cuz i own guns too, ya doof.

>>687500409
Moderate.
But only because it's an average.

>>687511487
>Also hitler was the first to introduce public healthcare in europe.

Bolsheviks were the first one who introdece public healthcare (USSR occupied an area of Eastern Europe). And it was completely free by the way.

> the state controlled what would be produced
The same happens in capitalist counties too with specific productions.

You define socialism incorrectly.
In socialists states private ownership of the means of production does not exist. this is their main feature.

>>687514006
>I firmly believe your immediate interest (...) would be to organize with your fellow workers ...
That is quite possible, no arguing about that. Who know.

On the other hand - there's so many people other that us, workers, included in production that i dont believe we could just take it.

I dont believe white collar workers are useless. (Not all of them, anyway, but that could be said about blue-collars as well.) Supervizor may be there not only to supervize, but to coordinate. That is quite crucial work that must be done, too.

>>687515268
of course capitalist states can have tyrany and state violence, that's what the second amendment is for.

And even if soviet economy had any form of competition, it is very clear that it was WORSE than in capitalist countries.

>>687516102
Back to Yurop you go

>>687515396
>Yea i can not see this not leading to loads of conflict.

Conflicts are the essence of productive communities. Since the decisions maker would also be the canon fodders, you can expect them not to jump at each other throats and work out productive agreements. That's what happens in the industry today. The bourgeoisie does that, I don't know why the masses couldn't.

> This will lead to one community being richer and more powerfull than the other and it will ultimately absorb the smaller communities

That's why the masses have a duty to keep their community in check, yes. That case is already treated in Kropotkine, Conquest of the Bread I talked about earlier, as peaceful and mutually profitable agreements between communities are preferable to bloodbathes, when the decisions maker are also the fighters of a community.

>just go to war over recources.
People don't want to be killed. That's a lever every government uses and we should count on it too.

>Being less succesfull than the other is failure
Europe received massive aids from the USA. But I feel like I can conceide this point as I have no interest of defending state capitalism.

Nice bait

>>687516377
american, born and raised. try again.
>yfw i grew up on a farm, my first job was on a farm, and every generation of men on my mother's side have been military men since the civil war

>>687515611
>2015
How is it the failure of socialism?

Do you know what happened in ussr and eastern europe when the union collapsed? Do you know how many wars and misery the great bastion of democracy and freedum have brought there?

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>>687515893
The state could also do that you complete autist.
The question is what will happen according to people's incentives, and ancaps think people will pay companies to protect them. And the private companies will do the task better than goverment

>>687514156
AFAIK second amendment is there not to protect country from outside threat, but to pretect it from your government. Also, i would argue more about the line "its dangerous for uprepared, so you must have licence" which is (at least officialy) reason you need licence to drive car.

>>687516703
Socialism =/= Communism

Socialism understands the rule of supply and demand. Which makes an economy go round.

Communism, doesn't

>>687516975
Communism is a branch of socialism, you moron.

>>687517144
But it isn't the same, if you're not blind you could've seen that I've explained why you fucktard

>>687516315
> it was WORSE than in capitalist countries
No this isn't clear at all. this is very debatable.
And this may shock youd but The Soviet economy in a period of stagnation developed faster than an economy of the US. USSR ranked second worldwide (that could be achived only with strong economy, don't you think) after the United States but the pace was faster.

>>687514569
>>687514941
C'mon, what's the deal with defected children. If partents can and want take care of them, let them be. Would you kill other peoples pets because you dont like those?

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>>687516703
They're growing again but they missed out on a lot of growth.
You fucking retard.

>>687516939
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -T.J.
you're right about the fact that citizens have always feared a tyranical ruler, especially back when monarchies were a legit thing. i guess you could say that the 2nd amendment was so americans could protect themselves and each other from threats both foreign and domestic.

>>687517362
No it isn't. Communism is the bait and Socialism is the trap.

>>687517362
>light blue is different than blue because it has high luminosity.

Communism is one of socialist schools. Socialism is a umbrella term. You cannot by definition be communist without being socialist.

>>687517485
Typical answer. Way to go.
I worked with western and soviet statistics alike. Many socialist states had standart of living that held top of the rankings.
While many of socialist states were horrible shitholes, the same could be said about capitalists states too.

>>687517548
Socialism is not a trap, it's a way of keeping an economy while caring about each other, giving every human a chance to give their innovation.

The purpose of life is to progress, and not to earn as much money as possible.

>>687512631
lolwut? Makes no sense. Clinton and Trump need to switch places.

>>687517589
A weak comparison, it's more like socialism is the parent of communism. Communism is extreme socialism. So yes, all communists are socialist but not all socialists are communists. A major difference being that communism is each according to his need, and socialism is each according to his contribution. The same way laissez faire capitalism is different from the capitalism the US actually has.

>>687514156
No anon that is not why the second amendment was written. The second amendment was written during a time when there was tyranny from those that governed the people. and so the authors of the constitution, the founders, saw it deeply necessary that the people be able to keep and bear arms in order to be able to function as their own check and balance against tyranny. The second amendment also comes in handy with regards to overt foreign invasion, but its primary purpose was tyranny. The founders also recognized that own's own military are perfectly capable of abusing the citizens, and that as such, the citizens should have the right to keep and bear arms.

Assuming you are being genuine here, saying a citizen's right to bear arms is no longer necessary because we have a big huge powerful military, they would consider you a gigantic fool.

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789.

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>>687518116
It's the typical answer because it's the truth.
Your answer attempts to obfuscate the presence of clear historic correlation.
It's like saying 'well I know a Chinese person who isn't that smart, so there'

>>687519039
nice thumbnail retard

Moderate Libertarian

>>687518805
> all communists are socialist but not all socialists are communists

That's my point.

>Socialism is each according to his contribution

Socialism can be a lot of things. Socialism is an umbrella term to describe people-oriented ideologies.

>>687518805
>socialism is each according to his contribution
Isn't that what capitalism is about? You know, you get paid according to value* you've bring to other people?
___
*Note that the value doesnt need to be material.

>>687518116
>muh anecdotal evidence
Wow, you sure showed him.

>>687519039
this pic always goes tiny reee
i give up

Chart is wrong, fascism is to the far left. Liberals believe in more government control over everything; hence communism and socialism (big government)... the far right would be libertarian followed by anarchy. Conservatives believe in smaller government; the extreme of which would be no government.

This is 8th grade fucking social studies shit right here.

>>687519116
I have tried to fix it a lot

>>687500612
>Liberalism is now the same as socialism
hah no

>>687519427
>Of course right wingers would never funnel tax payer money into the fucking military industrial complex
>They are far too busy protecting my fucking freedoms

Do you listen to yourself

>>687514074
no, reddit is about as pro bernie cuck my shit up fam as you can get.

4chan was originally as libertarian as you can get. We were all pro ron paul from the beginning.

>>687518805
>>687517589

communism is a development of socialist thought. Basically Marx mixed classical german philosophy, English political economy and french utopian socialism. Other branches of socialist thought at that time evolved in many other ways.

Communist weren't even a mainstream term until bolsheviks took the power in Russia. Read this
>>687513356

marxist in the 19th century and the beggining of the 20th century called themselves socialists.

>>687500409
Liberal

>>687519039
The problem is that whenever there was communism, all capitalist countries try to burn it to the ground with embargoes and shit because rich people(jews) aren't very happy with that.
Obviously this doesn't mean that communism is actually better or even viable, but it kind of means it isn't inherently bad.

>>687519732
the current parties don't represent the political beliefs at all. do you honestly believe the left is doing anything to stem that flow of money, when the democrat president has started more wars in his last 8 years in office than george bush did, and he hasn't adhered to one of his promises to end any of them or to close Guantanamo.

The political theory of left and right looks as i described. In practice, democrats and republicans are exactly the same.

>>687519813
>marxist in the 19th century and the beggining of the 20th century called themselves socialists.

So did anarchists and social democrats, syndicalists, trotskysts, maoists, and pretty much everyone on the left during the 19th century.

>>687520089
>In practice, democrats and republicans are exactly the same.

At least we can agree on that, thanks.

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>>687519732
You're talking about political parties, not political ideas.
Political are the way they are because of bundling, which is a product of the environment and democracy right wing parties find themselves in

>>687519773
EU fag here - why doesnt Ron Paul run for president this year? Did he died or something? Or just dont have strenght for that shit anymore? I always kinda liked that guy.

>>687520213
If you don't agree on the other parts, I recommend going back to 8th grade or googling liberal and conservative beliefs.

>>687520312
Ron Paul is just getting old :(

His son did run for nomination, but Rand Paul was never quite the statesman his father was. At least, not yet.

>>687520322
What your beliefs are, nobody care. What we care about is the fact you amerifat keep electing into office warmongers that send your economy to shit while laying waste on the globe with tax payer moneys while you still believe you run on free market.

>>687520267
Same thing. We don't care about what you believe in. We care about what you do.

>>687520124
Yeah, that's right. Every communist then was a social democrat.
Trotskysts are marxists. But trotskism wasn't really a thing until intraparty struggle in VKP(b), Maoists are marxists too, but they appeared much later.

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Cyka blyat

>>687520678
This thread is discussing political theory, regardless of belief or nationality. Pay attention euroshit.

>>687520492
Too bad. Good luck with Trump in meantime, then. He probably wont be THAT bad.