>>687064259
No asshole. It's because in order for America to compete we need to educate EVERYONE

>>687064482
I'm an asshole for asking questions? you say educate everyone yet insult me for trying to learn.

Globalisation, america will get the good high educated jobs hence more pay,

>>687064259

It's no different than Obamacare. These people are just suits, paid for by corporations (and don't forget, government). Paid to push their agendas.

> No. Let's not fix healthcare by regulating costs so they're not expensive as shit. Let's LOCK IT IN PLACE and force EVERYONE to pay too much!

Same with college. It costs way to fucking much. They'd love to force EVERYONE to have to pay for it.

Thanks to voters with NO standards or integrity to speak of.. it never ends.

>>687064726
You're asking this on 4chan you fucking idiot.

Bernie doesn't think. He just spouts feel good bullshit that the hipsters and illegals eat up.

Let's deconstruct OP's argument.

Why should everyone in the US be entitled to a free high school education?

Why should everyone in the US be entitled to a free middle school education?

>>687065201
wouldn't what i said have to be an argument first? I was asking not stating fuckwit.

>>687065100
fuck off summerfag.

>>687064259
Yes. Degree inflation is real and only getting worse.

>>687065201
This.
>>687064259
OP, you are being a selfish entitled prick. You're thinking of degrees for a monetary profit. College was intended to give individuals the highest level of education possible. It has now been turned into a joke run by deep pocket asswipes for people to get a piece of paper in order to get any sort of decent job in a field which the will never even use the knowledge they gained in college.

>>687064259
I do not support Sanders, but you are wrong for several reasons. First, free education does not mean everyone will go to college. There is still an opportunity cost, and much more importantly, colleges can't accept everyone who applies even as it stands now. Under Sanders' plan, the admissions standards for colleges would become more stringent to offset the increase in applications, at least in the short term. It's about opening the opportunity of college to poor communities, and that is it (which it does not do very well, historically).

Secondly, even if it meant everyone got a college degree, that is not necessarily a bad thing (though it might be). We live in a continually more global economy, and providing a more educated workforce may open up new job markets on the global scale, and/or allow for American products and services to be more competitive.

>>687065725
just like this faggot >>687065201
you are assuming i that i was stating these things would happen instead of asking if they would. Prick.

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>>687065725

/thread

>>687066069
/faggot

>>687065201

Public education serves two purposes:

1.) Indoctrination
2.) Daycare

It makes sense that a nation would provide education to the young while their parents are at work.

The tag-line of pedos, public education, and religion:

> get 'em while they're young
> mommy needs a babysitter

>>687065201
That's an intelligent way putting things.

>>687066143

Meant to post this at the end:

Once they're 18.. the need is gone.

So there's no reason whatsoever to provide it for free.

> public education
and
> college

LOL

There is no comparison.

>>687064259

there is no free shit. the education will be subsidized based on taxes and cuts to military spending while the rich bitch about the government coming after their money.

Why is it always free college? Better to offer free community college or trade school. The world only needs so many MBAs and we always need truck drivers, welders, HVAC techs, Respiratory Therapists, etc.

>>687064259
It may lose value compared to other degrees in the U.S. but the sector of the economy most steadily shrinking due to globalization is unskilled labor. More education means more Americans will be able to find work in skilled labor positions and we'd have less unemployment.

>>687064768
>Globalisation, america will get the good high educated jobs hence more pay,

That is not how globalization works.
The jobs go to wherever you can get the cheapest labor that meets your training requirements.

>>687064259
Being educated isn't supposed to be about getting a lot of money from a good job or being "useful". This is a modern American delusion.

Education is about discovery of new information, learning skills that serve interests as well as a career path.

>>687064259
I'm certain everyone wouldn't graduate. You still have to do the course work and pass and there's a shit load of people that don't.

>>687066647
You are in the minority on /b/

Most of these idiots on here that will argue against you are about as dense as a singularity. Their bubble wall is so thick, they can only see blurred images of what's actually going on. Their arguments so inherently riddled with fallacies, it makes anyone with an IQ above room temperature lose a few points just to make sense of their stupidity.

Though I won't be paying any more attention to these Republican't, CONservative supporters that will inevitably call me a "faggot" due to their inability to form a functional argument. Fortunately, their kind is becoming a quick minority as it shows in the recent roster of Republican'ts.

If you idiots are wondering where the faux terms I've been using come from, look at your own dysfunctional, obstructionist party who can't even do their own jobs when they hold majority in two houses.

>>687066143
Are you implying that those are the only two purposes for public education?

My brother and I both went through the public school systems. My brother is now an ER doc and I'm a lawyer for a non-profit. Are you sure public education is good for nothing more than indoctrination and daycare?

>>687064259
The degree is not supposed to be the most important thing about college/the market

>>687064259
Simple. Arguing against people being more intelligent makes no sense. Ignorance is slavery.

>>687066143
oh yeah man, school is dumm, all the smart people agree.

>>687067676
you are a nigger faggot cuck beta bitch

>>687066439
How is there no comparison? It's simply "mostly" adult-education vs. child education.

>>687064259
Works pretty well here in my country in Norway

>>687068242
Norway isn't full of generations of braindead Americans who have been indoctrinated to believe that gross ignorance is a virtue.

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>>687067676

i agree with most everything you just said.

One quick clarification though: the obstuctionism IS their job as far as the conservative power brokers like the Koch brothers are concerned.

The first step to reactionary back tracking of progressive policies is to keep government from enacting or enforcing them moving forward.

>>687064259
theoretically if everyone had college degrees, there would be a lot fewer retards, which i agree are a fucking drain on society.

>>687066143
Free (to you) high school, but also mandatory for you.
Mandated high school was intended to keep the young people out of the workforce to lower unemployment numbers.
Education is supply and jobs are the demand.
Too many people have college degrees now. How many letter carriers have college degrees? A fuck load. Why? They don't need it.
Education does not make jobs. It will make you more competitive against the other applicants for the jobs that do exist.

Oh yeah, I PAID for my own FUCKING college degree. No rich parents. Worked hard, got scholarships, got loans, got degree, got a job, paid the fucking loans off.

Putting 4th million in the bank this year. Fuck you communist assholes. I built this life myself, go build your own. Get your hand out of my pocket.

>>687065182
as opposed to Hillary whose words are paid ads and trump who can't even think of an original idea get ducked cuckservativr

>>687068673
You're a pathetic immature selfish little bitch, though.
Your worldview doesn't work for people who are not able to wing it through life like you did.
You didn't build your life, you had it handed to you, normalscum.

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>>687068439

> Norway doesn't have a history of the wealthy manipulating the political process to serve them exclusive, and using veiled racism and wedge issues to keep the poor distracted to what's really going on.

fixed that for you.

>>687064259
My country has free education. However, it's extremely hard to get a degree. It's not a matter of money.

>>687068928
Go back to /pol/, retard.
Every society functions like that. The problem is that Americans are far more stupid than every other modern nation.

>>687068673
>Putting 4th million in the bank this year.
I would love to know how you did that

>>687064259
Because he's a dumber than dumb fuck.

>>687069105
Without trying to insult amerifags, I think that's true. The US has a very disproportionate number of stupid people. The Bible Belt, you people call it? The amount of stupidity I've heard from those areas is astounding.

>>687064259
Bernie needs to also consider the logistics of a "free" education. Let's say if it were to happen and 15% of the population took advantage of the situation, where would we get the money for new buildings, professors, staff, etc?

>>687068912
Really... And you had to ... buy the computer you use now? Pay for the internet service?
Did you ever have a JOB?

But maybe you are right. I had my life handed to me. I handed it to myself.
I picked it up off the ground and said, working at McDonalds sucks. I can get the grades, I can do this, I'm going to college.

I didn't bitch about someone else.
You fail, because YOU failed.

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I AM THE THIRD REVELATION

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>>687068673

Let me just focus on one part of that argument you're making.

"I built this life myself, go build your own. Get your hand out of my pocket."

This statement is inherently untrue. Unless you were born in the wilderness and were raised by parents who live on the land and don't utilize any public services of any of kind.

You are a member of a society; this society has provided you (and everyone else,) with a set of common goods. Laws, roads, police, teachers, social welfare, electricity, communications, etc.

Whether you have personally used ALL of these services isn't important. You have indirectly benefited from all of them in some capacity.

(and if you're a white male, you probably benefited disproportionated to say, a black woman.)

Why do we have public education? Because it benefits society and everyone in it to have educated members. They make better decisions. They can perform more tasks. They are less likely to have massive unemployment, no prospects, unstable lives. Why do you care about that? For the reason rich and successful people in Libya should have cared. Men who aren't educated and aren't treated well by there society have a tendency to become the mob and revolt, given an opportunity.

>>687068673

You took my post so wrong it's astounding.

I don't think college should be free.

I'm saying that the only reason there's a push to make it "free" is to cement in the ridiculously high costs by forcing everyone to pay for it, and to extend the period of indoctrination.

When I was a kid, 18 was the age of an adult. Now they're pushing the "brain isn't fully developed until 25". In other words, they realize that there is still plasticity, even after 18.

They want to force-feed the population what they want them to think.. for as long as possible.

>>687069331
It's called work. And savings... not spending money when I don't need to.
Save a little, invest it. Repeat.

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I AM
THE
THIRD
REVELATION

>>687069103
Yep, my country is so fucking broken right now that even with free school and college, only 15% of all people have a degree

>>687064259
the trick is to not let corporations that already have all the money use that money to get even more money.

do you know what an economy is?

>>687069579
I hope a massive tornado wipes out the bible belt soon

>>687069875
yeah, no. not buying it. Unless you're in your 50s (which you're not because this is /b/) there's no way you got 4 million from just working and saving up

>>687069930
do you know what not being a faggot is? drink bleach.

>>687069875
How do you invest money?

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>>687070268

want to make a giant pile of money?

start with a big pile of money.

>>687064482
meh, degrees became worthless when plebs started using them as means for employment and social mobility...

I agree that there are a lot of degrees that cost more money than they deliver in value. I agree that the value of a degree is primarily as a certificate as opposed to knowledge. To demonstrate this;

A person who goes to college and is a credit hour short of getting their degree earns what a person with an associates would get.

(I'm simplifying things a lot here, since degree completion and actual intelligence/capacity would likely correlate.)

American colleges are already insanely over-priced compared to what it costs to get the knowledge that they impart.

But if you offered everyone the chance to get a degree, that doesn't mean that everyone would be able to finish one. A few people would get engineering degrees. A lot of people would get English degrees.

The problem here is that for people who don't learn well in an academic environment but learn well outside of one, they'd be at a huge disadvantage for not getting a degree.

Also, socialist schools tend to indoctrinate people into socialist thought. Surprise, surprise.

>>687069813
Close to the wilderness, logging lands. Now engineer.
Of course public education keeps the populace under control... that is it's purpose. But why is it mandated? Why is the curriculum so dictated? Control.
The question you mean to ask is why did I get ahead when I attended the same pubic schools, got the same books, and had the same opportunities as the others?
1. Parents. They said that I was worth something, and to believe in myself. (They never finished high school.)
2. I'm dedicated and smart. People gave me scholarships for being dedicated and smart. They helped, so now I help by funding scholarships.

>>687070161
Just turned 38. Make ~160k a year.

>>687072570
still don't believe you..you should post your bank info and mothers maiden name so i can confirm.

>>687070268
Read. The. News.
I use two banks with free stock trade options.

>>687072718
TITS or GTFO

>>687064482
Some people are actually fucking stupid and you can't fix that with college. Plato once said "you cannot simply put knowledge into souls that lack it"

>>687072798
Oh, yeah... since I saved... I bought two houses in 2009 after the market crash. Flipping one this year. That will be about 600k, minus capital gains.

>>687064259
You could say the same about any level of education; why have free high school? Almost everyone graduates so what's the point? Why have free elementary school? If everyone can read there's no job advantage.

Education is useful for more than just individual job prospects, but ignoring the soft benefits, people who get degrees are more likely to start a business and create jobs.

>>687064259
In an attempt to be actually helpful (seems to be rare on /b/ lately) ill try to explain.

First of all free college, or heavily subsidized college =/ education for everyone. The way it works in most other countries that subsidize education (i.e.Canada and almost all of the EU28), is it is left up to the universities and colleges to determine acceptable levels of academic achievement for entry to keep colleges competitive. Not everyone who applies, in most cases a minority, are going to have achieved the levels of academic achievement required to enter.

The real value in subsidizing education is not that everyone gets a university degree, but rather the people that are smart enough but dont have the money/opportunity to attend, will in this case be able to.
Now we can get into discussions on subsidized trade schools as well but that's getting away from your question

tl;dr not everyone gets a free education, only the smart enough people do

>>687073385
Close... many graduates do start companies and make jobs, but so do college drop outs. Some quite famously. (Jobs, Zuckerberg, etc)
More specifically... people with goals and the drive to work will go to college, then they may start a company.
The college degree doesn't make the company (unless you are at Stanford...)

>>687067509
Being free might actually make people slack off more and fail because there isnt a penalty of lost money. People who really want to learn are going to succeed.

>>687064259
I'm no Sanders supporter, but I would agree that free college is a a step in the right direction.

The over saturation in the job market is more complex than most people realize. There are 3, soon to be 4 generations at play here: Boomers, Xers, Millennials, and Z. Boomers thrived in their adult life. They lived the true "American dream". Homes, families, pets, vacations, the works. This was even for people who never had a college degree. Unfortunately, the generations that came after would never be as successful as a whole. Gen Xers grew up thinking they could be like the Boomers only to find that with technological advances came a more globalized economy. Gen X never fully understood that because of how the economy changed, they could never be like the Boomers. But they sure tried. America in general has a bad habit of living beyond its means. We borrow thinking that we'll be successful enough to afford a certain kind of life someday. So the Xers bought houses and had families and took vacations and accumulated more and more debt. By the time they hit retirement age, most had the cushion of social security to fall back on.

But social security is just borrowing from future generations and it's not sustainable as it is. But they weren't thinking that far ahead- they probably thought the future generations could work it out. After all, they'd put in their 30-40 years and they deserve to retire now. But the problem is, a lot of them couldn't retire. Their social security was not enough to pay another 10 years of mortgage, or put their kids through school with its exorbitant tuition (which was skyrocketing for different reasons). And so they continued to work. Gen X has more people in the work force than Millennials even though Gen Xers should be retiring in droves. And if they don't retire, there are less jobs to go around for the Millennials and Gen Z.

cont

>>687068439
>Norway isn't full of generations of braindead Americans who have been indoctrinated to believe that gross ignorance is a virtue.

I wonder if it has something to do with their education system. Lets not think to deep, I think you are right, the americans are genetically inferior.

>>687064482
The more degrees, the worthless they become. Also, if everybody pursues a college degree, who will do the menial job? Immigrants? And then what? You'll encourage their sons to pursue a career as well, and then...?

>>687075119
Uh, what do you think happens to people with degrees when only non-degree jobs are available now?

Scotland's doing pretty aight, and they pay you to go to college.

>>687064482
>in order for America to compete

compete with who? The people globalist corporations outsource to? You mean the same people who got their education paid for by said corporations in order to create low cost educated people to out source to? You could give every single man, woman, and child in the united states a masters degree and it wouldn't change a fucking thing in terms of 'competitiveness'

>>687075008
Kek

>>687074916
2/?

With less jobs to go around, the Millennials sought to make themselves more marketable. Even though college tuition was starting to get more expensive, the Millennials figured if they could have that edge over their peers, they could find the jobs they needed. As degree rates in previous generations were much lower, the idea was solid on paper. But, as others have said, if everyone has a degree, it's the same as nobody having a degree. There are many reasons why tuition has been getting expensive, but it would all fall apart if people weren't willing to pay it. But due to the climate of the job market, people were willing to pay.

I say were willing to pay as opposed to are. That's because in the last several years, college enrollment has actually been declining. Tuition has finally gotten to the point where it's no longer efficient or viable to go tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. For some, a college degree is the equivalent of 5 or more years of full time work, and since there is a growing issue with degree saturation, oftentimes the degree doesn't pay for itself. People are starting to realize this and are now pursuing other options to make themselves a living. Eventually the job market and degree rates may stabilize, but every year that goes by in the current climate generates millions of dollars in student debt that can never be repaid.

cont

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>>687066647
Look how much the top 10% pay, it's the majority of the tax.

Now Google Bernie Sanders top private campaign donations, protip there's one in this sentence.

Now find out how much his top backers pay in taxes.

I'll make it eay for you, here they are.

Alphabet Inc <--- This shit here is Google.
University of California
Microsoft Corp
Apple Inc
US Postal Service
Amazon.com

Now guess which three pay less than 1% tax by having their HQ in another country?

Guess which ones uses child labour and sends all their jobs to China?

Guess which ones generate billions in revenue and pay nothing back but are always chanting for equality and progressive thinking?

Bernie Sanders is no different from the rest, he just has a better PR team to pitch his shit to the young.

>>687075280
Work at walmart, get food stamps

>>687064726
don't listen to the people that insult you just for not agreeing with them. most of them just assume anyone different is automatically an idiot which is false

>>687075280
Exactly.

>>687074916
>but I would agree that free college is a a step in the right direction.
> America in general has a bad habit of living beyond its means.

You have conflicted your own statement... the government lives well beyond it's own means already. If we all owe the same bank 22k, does that make it any less our debt? Is stealing from others always the solution to debt?

Hey, maybe start a movement where the employers don't care about bogus degrees. Look at the person, not the paper.
No debt= no debt.

Totally agree on social security... just wish it wasn't a giant ponzi scheme. Maybe they would have made other choices if they had known social security was a lie.

>>687064259
Lazzy fucks always will complain
About everything foo
Competition be te best
For getting those opportunitys in your
Life be successful make you country
Feel proud of you is not
What the capitalist system
Is about ? A fucking degree won't to do
Shit for you if you are a lazy fuck
Who wants to get rich with everyone's
Work "oh now that college is going to be free means less jobs for us the lazy fuck" stop crying little piece of shit

>>687075769
No idea what you are talking about.

>>687076352
Is English your second language?

>>687074916
>>687075692
3/?

Gen Z grew up hearing about the plight of the Millennials and are now opting to avoid college altogether. It's a sound decision in terms of personal finance, but does America really want to be a nation that's moving backwards?

Up until now, everything I've mentioned is objectively peer-reviewed. This is where I start being subjective. You were forewarned.

It's a huge problem if an entire generation opts not to educate themselves. While degree saturation is a true problem in the job market, a true college experience grows and enriches people. One of the main factors that inhibit progress in America is that there are still too many uneducated idiots who vote. In fact, those who aren't educated have a higher voter turnout in many cases. Plus, educated people have a much lower reproduction rate than the uneducated. Avoiding college is not just avoiding debt- it's taking away one of the best opportunities to grow and mature as a human being. And the primary reason more people opt to avoid college now is cost.

There will always be a need for employees without a degree. Hell, I was a payroll manager for 7 years before I returned to school and graduated and I was making more without a degree than most of my classmates were after they got a degree. A degree isn't the first educational standard that will become obsolete. Standardized test scores became so inflated by studying for it specifically. SAT tutors and centers and programs that people paid a lot of money for eventually drove some major college systems to stop accepting them. The same thing is happening with college degrees. Everyone was getting them and now employers are just starting to realize that there are young, skilled, and capable employees that don't have a degree that can perform jobs better than a lot of idiots who went to college for no other reason than that they grew up thinking they should.

cont

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>>687075500
Scotland has a population smaller than every state in America. Their cities and infrastructure are in ruins, their life expectancy is the lowest in the developed world. They nearly fucked themselves hyped up on nationalism.

>>687064482
Then we can all be Professors of latin... and then stave. No fucker, we diversify the workforce, giving everybody a college education devalues the degree you worked so hard.

>>687064768
No, that works when you are not at the top. Globalisation happens and the US if flooded with cheaper alternatives. Why hire you for $15 an hour when this guy will do it for $$4.50 and a banana?

>>687065182
And women, students, feminists, unemployed, underemployed, the young.

>>687065201
You educate the population so they can engage in society at the maximum level with the greatest benefit for all. Nobody ends learning once they finish school, they move on to other things, trade, vocation and some do go to higher education.

Or to use a crude metaphor of your argument, why bother educating anybody? Why not just bash their head with a rock until they do what we want? That'll work right?

>>687065898
We have this now, people don't want to use it because it's uncool and it doesn't provide the experience they want, the false sense of independence and pride. We have local and community colleges, vocational colleges online that cost less than a cup of coffee a day.

People do not want education, they want 4 years of hanging around with friends and creating memories, well fuck that join the army. I promise you the memories will be a lot more vivid and lasting.

>>687068439
Norway, Sweden and Denmark are living of the last scraps of their free-market system. Look at projections in the next 10 years their population will be bled almost completely dry with taxes and their social services will collapse.

>>687076681
Basically Bernies Sanders is a fraud, his top backers are Amazon, Apple and Google and avoid the most tax in US history.

>>687076218
What does this movement look like? For example, how does NASA determine who is capable of being an aeronautical engineer without a formalized education? Do they just determine "hey, he seemed like a smart guy in his interview, can probably handle it".

And before you counter with an argument of extensive job training, what exactly would be the difference between that and a college education other than who is administering it?

>>687075769
"This table lists the top donors to this candidate in 1989-2016. The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.(https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=Career&cid=n00000528)"

But Bernie has only taken less than 0.5 percent from super pacs. Which means all that money came from individual donors who happen to work at those places. What is your point?

You mean many people who work at google like Bernie?

>>687077351
>Basically Bernies Sanders is a fraud, his top backers are Amazon, Apple and Google and avoid the most tax in US history.

See here
>>687077683

>>687064259
So you're saying a less educated society is better? You're an idiot.

>>687065725
Honestly that's actually true, but college should not be free, simply affordable.

>>687075769
So he is payed by companies who "evade taxes".
Lets imply that this is true. It would still leave the majority with more "free stuff" while the people with arguably too much money pay for it.
Well is it a valid reason to not vote him because he dos the right things for the wrong reasons ?
Also they still have to pay taxes for the revenue they produce inside the us independent of the hq location. If the have a Factory or anything else in another country that country taxes those facilities.
Also google hq resides within California based on google.

>>687076926
Yes sir

>>687077351
>We have this now, people don't want to use it because it's uncool and it doesn't provide the experience they want, the false sense of independence and pride. We have local and community colleges, vocational colleges online that cost less than a cup of coffee a day.

People do not want education, they want 4 years of hanging around with friends and creating memories, well fuck that join the army. I promise you the memories will be a lot more vivid and lasting.

That's just categorically incorrect. I dont know of any community college or online courses where you can earn a Ph.D. or other advanced degrees required for fields such as specialized engineering (aerodynamics, biomedical, advanced robotics, etc).
For SOME people, undergraduate degrees might be for making memories and dicking around, but the vast majority of master and doctoral programs are full of people genuinely interested in advancing our collective knowledge.

He's just trying to get the young, retard votes.

Thank god we have far more older people than younger people.

>>687076218
>>687077088

Great points. The movement is already starting and I had nothing to do with it. It's the natural evolution of the circumstances. Social security was actually optional until the Gen Xers realized they were in deep shit.

The government does live beyond its means. When I said America, I meant both the country as well as the average person living in it.

4/4

So why do I believe in free college? Because you're giving people back a choice. It will take the small percentage of employers who look at the person rather than the paper and grow it into a true movement. When college is free, it will no longer be something that everyone just does. Since anybody will be able to go to school, people will get degrees and actually use them rather than just having one to have one and then getting some bare bones job in an unrelated field. It'll create a more effective and efficient workplace, which in turn can boost the economy. More jobs will be created with employers able to pay their employees more (whether they're willing to is an entirely different matter). It will also reverse the worrying trend of people opting not to go to college solely because of the cost. Now, there is an ideal number of people who should have a degree, and as time goes by, it should increase steadily as more focused jobs open up. The whole fiasco with everyone getting a degree artificially boosted the numbers. In a sense, less people now should have degrees, but it's the wrong people who are choosing not to get one, and a lot of people are getting them unnecessarily. Free college can bring back balance to that.

Getting pretty tired so I'll quit here. May be around to respond and discuss.

>>687078104
>So he is payed by companies who "evade taxes".
He was never paid by the company, there just happens to be a ton of donations from individual people that work at those places.

>>687064259
>First day of Bernie as President
>Bernie: "You will pay more taxes, 1 %"
>The 1 %: "No"
>Bernie: "Okay, back to the shed, I guess"

I’m a European and to me it sounds like what Sanders is saying and what Obamacare means is pretty close to what most European countries have. In other words they don’t seem to be new ideas and you have a lot of examples of well-functioning western country’s that have higher taxes, free education and social welfare system for all.

>>687078589
true.

>>687078388
My girlfriend's mother is voting for him. Had a discussion about it the other day. She basically said that we drive on socialist roads every day and therefore socialism works.

What she doesn't realize is that everyone benefits from roads, that's why we pay for them. The people paying for the "free college" and "free healthcare" don't benefit from it nearly enough to have to pay a higher percentage for it.

what we should be doing is eliminating tax evasion loopholes instead of trying to tax the wealthy more.

Why not focus on the real problem?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/global-school-rankings-interactive-map-shows-standards-of-education-across-the-world-10247405.html

>>687077383
Employers are already starting to realize that a degree isn't everything. Of course, for highly specialized and technical jobs, degrees should be necessary. But many employers have grown accustomed to asking for a degree where it simply isn't necessary- a habit grown out of a time when a degree actually meant something. But if skilled and capable people are opting not to get a degree because of the cost, then employers are losing out by having a degree requirement. Once employers recognize that (and more are starting to), the movement will take off.

>>687077351
This cucks complaining about
The niggers but they don't
Want to educated them
So sad poor selfish mother fucker

>>687065374
The rise of people using this insult leads me to think /b/ lacks the creativity to use any other because, they are too stupid to think of something better to call someone than "person who has more time off for 4chan usage during the summer". Damn the mother who gave birth to the autistic rice sack of bullshit that became you.

>>687077351
>Norway, Sweden and Denmark are living of the last scraps of their free-market system. Look at projections in the next 10 years their population will be bled almost completely dry with taxes and their social services will collapse.

Im looking at these projections and nowhere do I see that. Infact inflation is estimated to remain low (sub 1%), with Norway's Krone outperforming the Euro even.

Spam filter not letting me post source but google (Nordic Outlook
Economic and financial trends). Should be the first link

>>687078691
>I’m a European and to me it sounds like what Sanders is saying and what Obamacare means is pretty close to what most European countries have. In other words they don’t seem to be new ideas and you have a lot of examples of well-functioning western country’s that have higher taxes, free education and social welfare system for all.

Heresy, my libertarian view can't accept this. **Puts fingers in ears, closes eye, emotes**
Lalalalalalala

>>687077662
Hitler didn't do nuffin

>>687064259
>if everyone had a college degree then wouldn't a degree be worthless
Being more knowledgeable about the world you live in is never worthless.

Free college tuition would cost around 70 billion dollars a year, the u.s spends around 800 billion dollars a year on our military. the problem isnt that we cant afford free college the problem is we would rather buy more nukes then send our youth to college and have economic equality.

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>>687079179

>>687078589
Bernie isn't communist, retard. Jesus

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>>687079392

>>687077683
>>687077798
>Rather the money came from the organizations' PACs

You mean to say the man with the biggest grass roots donation system in US political history had to use a big bad coorperation to donate money to, who then would donate it on behalf of them?

No, this comes from the companies themselves. As otherwise they donate directly to the Campagin as every other Bern victim has.

>>687078254
No, if you want to study medicine or STEM or mathmatics or anything of weight you can not. Do you honestly believe I meant such? No, you can though study your prereqs locally minimising the time and money you take from your parents retirement.

For what the majority of people studying for can do the vast majority of the leg work locally. English, liberal arts, drama, debate, social sciences and all the general shit that won't get you employed at any higher level than the guy who cleans the foam stains off the machine, you go local and save thousands


>>687078691
Not even close, European in the US here, basically Obamacare is a tax on the poor forcing them to get a service at an government set price. They also do not have the 1/10, or more, of the population out of work, refusing to work or unwilling to support themselves.

They also have a nation, Mexico, which they have to support through millions of dollars leaving by people working here and sending their money 'home'. Add to that the ones that stay and tie up the social services.

You can not compare the US to North-Western Europe, as it does not work. When people say Europe, they forget about the shithole nations where the majority go hungry, do not have basic water, heating, electricity or even free speech.

From Newcastle, fuck the EU.

>>687078516
dude i used this based on my knowledge. I did not not know for sure so i implied that i doubted it to be true.
I accepted his statement to be true, devaluated it , and then proceeded to point out why his statement was most likely false. Thereby weakening his point on several levels.
at least that was what i was trying to do.

>>687079260
try to feed, clothe, and house a family of four with that piece of paper while also being in $120k of debt for it,

Water them damn trees with Gatorade

>>687078960
Okay, presented that way your argument is a lot more valid. I originally interpreted you as saying there is no need for formalized secondary education to which I figured you were another, far right 'rebel' who thinks the education system is indoctrinating us all to what the government wants us to do.

To which I would have suggested you grab your tinfoil hat and AR-15, lock yourself in your basement, and continuing fucking your cousin before the big bad government comes to get you

>>687079105
right?

>>687079105
Can you write that again in English please?

>>687079531
Kek dude but they don't listen
They close they ayes point then
Ears and start saying lalalala
I quoted the other anon this one
Is funny

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Free college what a crazy idea, Bernie sander is a fucking communists am i right guys?

>>687068673
>i worked incredibly hard and hated every minute of it so everyone for all time should hate their lives too!

>>687079621
Kek you fucking anons are hilarious

>>687064482
No, that's just a waste of resources on the inferior. The true answer to the education issue is to increase standards in schools, instead of 60% being passing, it should be 80%, or even 85%. Your solution only allows the inferior to gain access to higher education they do not deserve.

In addition we must remove all useless studies, womens studies, african american studies, gender studies, etc etc, these should all be removed and discredited entirely, if you're going to college, you're going to do so while getting an actual education, not to bullshit around.

Your solution isn't going to work because the issue isn't that america isn't educated enough, the issue is that america is full of lazy kids who won't actually work for anything.

But don't worry, Bernie lost, and he's too stupid to see that him fighting clinton all this time will only allow Trump to be our next president. But go ahead, play into out little game, I can't expect much from a child who's been given everything to him in his pathetically short life.

>>687065201
slippery slope fallacy

>>687079805
Kek

>>687079474
>this comes from the companies themselves.
>>687077683
>The organizations themselves did not donate

Are you retarded I cited your source that you left out and it says explicitly that it didnt come from the company.

If you're only going to school for a degree rather than for knowledge, then it's already worthless.

>>687080214
Fallacy fallacy is an actual thing btw, pointing out that there is a fallacy in someones argument without actually refuting said argument isn't an actual argument and isn't adding anything to the conversation. You sound like a 14 year old who just discovered what a fallacy was.

>>687079105
>>687079789

Per person, niggers have more money spent on them than Asians, white and Hispanics combined. They can not fuction without a network of social services. By all rights they should be the most educated people in the US, instead they throw shit at people, cry at imagined injustices and get mad when they have to take responsibilies for Little Traytray getting shot because he convinced a cop he had a gun and was going to shoot him.

Provide a reasonable response on how to do that.

>>687079392
Yes, yes he is.

>>687079150
The Euro is in freefall, more and more of the nations using it are about to back out. Saying the Krone is better than the Euro is no different to saying, that crashing plane is higher than my house. The scandanvian model is beautiful to see, who would not want it? But the decreasing returns are becoming greater and greater, coupled with the nation now supporting a frightening number of 'refugees'.

>>687079260
Not all knowledge is useful, knowing the types of rock and how volcanos form is not going to impress the guy interviewing me for a CNC machinist.

Studying your hobby is never something to do in the hopes of earning a living outside of a handful of cases. Knowing more about the world you live in is a beautiful thing, but not something you do professionally, do it in your private time.

>>687080103
Get pissed at Europe and Africa and the Middle-East. Get them to 'pay their fair share' as right now the US protects and patrols half the world because other countries are unable to do so themselves. Where it not for the US and it's agencies the recent attacks of Paris, Belgium, Turkey, Morroco and more would be a weekly even daily event.

Yeah we could cut spending and then be outraged that the government allowed these tragic events to happen.

>>687080268
Yes, it did. However it came, it went through the company, regardless of if it came from personal motivation of its employees or company approved action.

>>687080334
If you want the knowledge and don't care about the degree why go to college? It's all on the internet...

Both things are important

>>687079474
Im curious to which EU28 nations you're refering to when you say
> You can not compare the US to North-Western Europe, as it does not work. When people say Europe, they forget about the shithole nations where the majority go hungry, do not have basic water, heating, electricity or even free speech.

To join the EU there are minimum requirements. For instance Turkey and Croatia are unable to join right now because they do not meet the democratic, market, and stability criteria of the EU. Think you'll be hard pressed to find and EU28 nation where the "majority" of people dont have the basic needs of life.

For reference visit Eurostat.com . Excellent statistical reference to determine factors such as gdp per capita, infrastructural investment, and quality of life indicators.

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>>687080349
And you are commiting the fallacy-fallacy-fallacy, when people incorrectly believe they have spooted a fallacy-fallacy in somebodys argument. Typically the result of studying only one tiny, narrowed and largely unprofitable section of the human experience.

They are also utterly unable to detect sarcasm.

Op's question and logic further proves that we need free college for everyone.

>>687073909
This

>>687064259
Sanders means that places like community colleges will be free, not places like Harvard. also, most if not all the rest of the free world has free higher education and most of those countries are just fine.

>>687080663
Nope, because all he said was "slippery slope fallacy" without actually refuting his argument, which in itself is a fallacy.

It's very difficult to determine sarcasm through text without context or non verbal cues

>>687072364
>so now I help by funding scholarships

You could be lying. If you aren't good for you.

However, there are a lot of people who take things from this society and do not leave anything behind. Or worse, leave the country entirely. We should do a 19th century Japan + HEAVY communism. That will get things running in this country again.

Also, legalize all drugs and put more effort into educating people about the very real dangers drugs pose.

Then all we have to do is take the people in jail for violent crimes and put them in Somalia or something.

We should leave the EU and disband NATO and just start nuking everyone, too.

>>687077697
>its written on a shitty microsoft word stamp image with runescape font! it must be true!

>>687080962
thats not rs font you fucking casual

>>687064259

The problem is we need to invest a massive level of time and money into renovating both our grade school level and college level public education program.

Most of America's racial and social tensions could be solved through an overall increase of education and exposure. Coming from college back home to a small rural town is like traveling back in time. Education can evolve a population.

As for the money necessary, we should take from the military. We don't need to be as large as the next five biggest militaries combined tu protect ourselves, and as much as we should help others, we need to focus on making sure our population is ok first. If we cut the military budget by half we'd still be twice large as the next, and could find all of this.

>>687080607
Romania, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Kosovo, Moldova and many more.

These are all part of the European landmass but are just casually pushed out in favor of focusing on England, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden.

They may not all be in European Union, but they are most definately in Europe.

>>687080457
>regardless of if it came from personal motivation of its employees

You are making a claim that 1000's of donors conspired together to help Bernie Sanders because it will help their company some how?

But you are unable to come to the more obvious conclusion, that those 1000s of people support Bernies ideas.
It says clearly on OpenSecrets that there was no direct donation from those companies.

>>687077697
I don't think you have ever read the constitution

>>687068928
>if i keep posting images of michael fassbinder people are bound to take me seriously!

>>687080457
>The Euro is in freefall, more and more of the nations using it are about to back out. Saying the Krone is better than the Euro is no different to saying, that crashing plane is higher than my house. The scandanvian model is beautiful to see, who would not want it? But the decreasing returns are becoming greater and greater, coupled with the nation now supporting a frightening number of 'refugees'.
Euro is not in freefall, and if you look at the trend over the last decade its completely normal.
Here is the most comprehensive report I can find on the performance and competitiveness of the Euro, including a section dedicated to predicted competitiveness. Pages 7-11 are good for a brief summary.
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpops/ecbocp30.pdf
tl;dr Euro is fine in the long run (i.e 5-10 years)

>>687064259
You do not understand economics well enough to talk down to anyone.

Kill yourself OP.

>>687080607
Can Germany feed all those muslim migrants?

>>687081276
Yes they can and they should

>>687081256
I will not kill my self. thank you for your input.

>>687068673
>used the public education system
>used a (probably public) college
>used loans and scholarships (and probably FAFSA)
>got a job with a government subsidized company
>U GUYS R ALL FUGGIN COMMUNISTS :-D :-D :-D

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>>687080910

???

>>687081256
So what exactly makes you, Bernie Sanders, or other Bernie supporters the authority on this matter?

All I ever hear from either of you retards is "Durr you don't understand economics"

That's now how this works, no matter how many times you children scream "I gotchu!" "No I gotchu" no one will really take you seriously. In order to be taken seriously you need to prove to him that free education is economically viable. When you just say "You don't know anything about it" all you're doing is making yourself out to be an arrogant ass.

>>687081091
>No direct donation
That is exactly what I said, it went through the PAC.

Dude, Sanders has ran an effective donation solicitation game. It is streamlined to go from the guy on the sofa to his pocket. There is no need for a company to do this other than to hide who donated the money.

>>687081227
You mean to tell me that the EU is reporting that it's major currency isn't garbage? Look at exchange rates, look at people investing in it, look at the debt it has, look at the countries opting out. Do not take the merchants word that the product is fine.

>>687081276
Of course they can! They will eat only the best, those born and raised in Germany of fairer skin and nobler intent... those will have to do without.

>>687081358
No they should not. They should march them all the way back to their own shitty country and tell them to fight oppression instead of fleeing it. Women and children we allow, but fighting age males should be made to fight.

>>687081358
With pork I hope.

>>687079474
They also do not have the 1/10, or more, of the population out of work, refusing to work or unwilling to support themselves.

The unemployment rates are pretty similar in US and most of Europe.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.UEM.TOTL.ZS/countries?display=map

>They also have a nation, Mexico, which they have to support through millions of dollars leaving by people working here and sending their money 'home'.

Bullshit.

>You can not compare the US to North-Western Europe, as it does not work.

I’m not comparing

they forget about the shithole nations where the majority go hungry, do not have basic water, heating, electricity or even free speech.

You’re talking about the nations that were formerly part of the soviet union (?) witch are for obvious reasons not the part of Europe that I referred too. Most countries are not similar to your depiction. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, UK, Island, Belgium and so on

>>687081478
But think of all the refugee babbies. We are moving towards a global human race and this is one of the ways we will achieve this goal.

>>687081562
>I'm not comparing
>Let me compare unemployment rates

>>687064259
wow it sure is summer in here

>>687066653
>this guy gets it, there is no shame in trade work

>>687064259
>free
Absolute trolling.

why can't we take some of the billions of tax dollars used on the military, and push to education?

"tuition free" is not free. Honestly it's like you guys are intentionally this stupid just to argue about something because you can't get attention from anyone else.

>>687080570
You must be the most well educated man on earth. I'm very impressed that you are confident in your ability to gain as much knowledge by perusing the internet as 4 years of college can afford you.

In addition, there are many utilities that a university has access to which one could never have a chance to use without becoming a student.

In particular, it is unlikely that a student who needs a lab to conduct research in would be able to do so without the facilities and the guidance that a University can provide.

>>687070193
leafy is here

>>687081467
>all you're doing is making yourself out to be an arrogant ass

Perfect irony

>>687081478
>That is exactly what I said, it went through the PAC.

No Bernie has taken almost no money from PACs.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/debunking-the-big-bernie-sanders-has-a-superpac-lie/
This article talks about the open secrets money. Stop spreading conspiracy theories.

>>687080103
>year 2040
>America enjoys free college, thousands and thousands of American youth are free to take gender studies, feminist theory, and philosophy classes without the burden of student debt
>military budget was cut 75% to afford free education
>a lone fat obese welfare queen sits sprawled out on the beach like a whale, getting her summer tan when she spies something off into the distance
>it's a large ship
>suddenly hundreds of planes fly overhead into the mainland united states
>Russia has finally decided to attack the united states
>the US doesn't have enough time to mobilize it's forces, have of the west coast is taken in mere days
>the US military is finally mobilized, conscriptions are enacted, and war bonds are being offered
>no one is buying them, instead they decide to protest the violence, or they simply can't afford it after paying for their cable, internet, cell phones, and expensive food
>the Russian offensive is brutal, taking most of the mainland united states
>the Us army meets Russian forces, and are swiftly defeated by the much more advanced and well funded Russian military
>"B-But, muh free education"

>>687081710
Then the question is "Is that enough money", some people are saying there isn't, I'd like to see opposing arguments from your future hillary clinton voters, because lets be honest, Bernie isn't going to win.

>>687068673
I'm a pretty happening dude. You want to hang out and be happening dudes together?

>>687081684
> hyperbole
of course it's not completely free you autistic piece of shit.

>>687066653
>Better to offer free community college
>community college
>college
>as opposed to college

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>>687068439
You're painting with a very large brush eurofag.

>>687081059
Sure maybe two decades ago. For example n early 1997, over 36% percent of the population in Bulgaria was living in poverty. HOWEVER, since joining the EU that number has dropped to 17% as is steadily receding. Is it great by European standards? No, but there is absolutely no doubt that the situation has improved immensely.

Bulgaria is the poorest of the EU28 nations you mentioned by the way. The others are not in the EU28, and from what i have interpreted from the arguments presented here, when people talk about Europe they're talking about the EU member countries. No Serbia and Moldova.

Source: http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTPOVERTY/EXTPA/0,,contentMDK:20205090~menuPK:435735~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:430367~isCURL:Y~isCURL:Y,00.html

>>687081866
You don't understand what that even means, clearly. But thank you, you really did just prove to me that Bernie Sanders supporters are just as dumb as Trump supporters.

>>687066653
This is a very reasonable compromise, my friend. Even I can see it, and I am an avid Bernie supporter.

>>687081906
>you're autistic for pointing out that "free" isn't really free
>it isn't autistic to point out that free doesn't mean free

No shit, you autistic idiot.

>>687081882
It won't be Russia, it'd be China paired with Russia.

Assuming they'd even want to occupy mainland NA, when they probably couldn't do so in the 80s when they had over 5 million troops in their military.

>>687064259
Because having free college automatically means everyone who tries to get a degree will succeed. Sure there will be more, but not everyone will have.

>>687081884
I think when we start seeing results then that's when we know if it's enough. Crazier things have happened. No one ever expected donald trump to run.

>>687082121
Succeed at getting a degree. Fail at getting a job.

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>>687068664
...because liberal arts degrees are proof of intelligence. You're a dummy, and you say dumb things.

>>687082121
>everyone who tries to get a degree will succeed
Stop ignoring the fact that you're wrong.

>>687082162
I said opposing arguments, please if you can't muster up any sort of argument then don't bother replying.

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>>687081993
I see what you did there.

and BTW I never said I supported Sanders, I just think you're full of shit and this is a dumb thread. Now you're mad because I've revealed how clueless you are.

>>687068439
I enjoy your blind fury.
Let your teeth sink in
> Feels good

>>687082332
Clueless how exactly?

No.
Source: every country with tuition-free college/university education.

>>687082332
Careful, your fedora is showing.

>>687082112
I don't think China would invest in an invasion. They get too much from us. Honestly, they need the US to be strong lest we stop buying from them, or stop helping them.

>>687081882
Jajaja this paranoic fuck
That's why I'm against fucking
Pregnant whores use crack while
Pregnancy
This cuck is the result of drugs abusing

>>687082467
Dude, you need to shave your neck.

>>687064259
No.

>>687081478
>You mean to tell me that the EU is reporting that it's major currency isn't garbage? Look at exchange rates, look at people investing in it, look at the debt it has, look at the countries opting out. Do not take the merchants word that the product is fine.
Of course I beleive it.... its a 100 page, public and peer reviewed document written by men and women who have been studying this exact topic for the better part of a lifetime. If it was wrong, there would be massive criticism of the entire institution. I have provided the most comprehensive and analytic report I could possibly find. I would challenge you to do the same (i.e. peer-reviewed and well regarded) article or report that contradicts the one I just posted. Additionally, its not a matter of believing or having faith in the report. The hard statistics are right there for you to interpret yourself. You cant argue with fact

Unless it is you're arguing that the entire report is based on fake evidence and the EU is producing fake statistics, in which case congrats you're the next Pulitzer-prize winning reporter for breaking open such a massive story.

>>687082482
They get too much from us now, but they're taking over the Pacific slowly, the more the US pulls out, the more they expand. Russia is a dinosaur, I wouldn't worry about them, it's China we need to keep an eye on.

>>687082322
I just did.

>>687082566
You need to slit yours.

>>687082467
Trump is working in your best interests, I could try to tell you to pay attention and vote accordingly but if you haven't figured that out by now I guess you're just intent on helping the country commit cultural suicide.

Let me guess, you're gonna "do the right thing" and write in your own candidate eh? Fucking retard.

>>687082671
No you didn't, you just said "LOL LETS JUST DO IT GUYS" That's not an argument, I need you to prove to me that the military budget of the US can fund free education for everyone who wants it, you haven't, we can't just say "Lets just see" because we won't see because the two most likely next presidents, Trump and Clinton, probably won't be pursuing that

Wait why are we even arguing or debating this? Who is seriously stupid enough to go against the pursuit of knowledge?

>>687082671
No you didn't.

>>687082692
Typical conservicuck.

I like Sanders but this is what happens if he actually made community college free:

currently:
no degree = fast food job or equivalent
community college degree = fast food manager
decent college degree = marketing job
good college degree = marketing job
elite college degree = banking or consulting job
(not accounting for engineers, comp sci, or hard sci majors)

if Sanders really did his whole free college shit, everyone would just shift one up. Community college no longer gets you fast food manager, it just gets you fast food worker.

>>687082857
It should be the pursuit of a degree that can land you a good job, you can get knowledge from many free sources.

>>687082857
A lot of knowledge really isn't as useful as we are sold to believe.

>>687078960
Ah, so how long do the people who have no degree have to suffer waiting for employers to change their minds about mandatory degree requirements? All the meanwhile the plenty qualified folk with a degree get the job and perform at least as well. So when will this theoretical turnaround come about?

>>687082903
GREECE

GREECE

GREECE

I raped your dad!

>>687082857
school isn't about knowledge

school is about teaching you how to think

name one job that you come out of college ready for without on-job training

protip:youcant

>>687080457
>Per person, niggers have more money spent on them than Asians, white and Hispanics combined. They can not fuction without a network of social services.
what about boarding schools for negroes?

>>687082903
>PhD in astrophysics
>manager at McDonald's

>>687077662
hitler was a good man fuck you

>>687081011
i admit i am a casual

>>687082794
What the fuck are you even talking about? When did I ever say that I was or was not voting for Trump? Matter of fact what the fuck does he have to do with any of this atm? Stay on fucking topic. This entire thread was created to ask people what would be the effects of an increased amount of people with degrees on the economy. Matter of fact most of you people are blithering fucking idiots and can't answer those simple questions I had. You all went off on your own idiot political rants. Fucking retards.

>>687083108
Not if I have anything to say about it.

I went through a lot of trouble getting my daughter into a charter school to keep her away from niggers.

>>687083108
Do you really think that boarding schools are paid for by taxpayer dollars?

>>687081882
Ah yes, let's blow this situation so far out of proportion and into the realm of ridiculous to try and prove a point. It's almost like you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and can only communicate via meme-speak and stupidity.

>>687082513
You would certainly benefit from free college.

>>687078388
>thank god we have angry old racists that are still delusionally living in the 1950s

>>687083137
wat

>>687082799
Let's see. US spends 598.49 billion on military. And on education its 69 billion. yeah think trimming some of the money off the military would fund the education plan and the USA will still be the powerhouse when it comes to military.

>>687083374
Nice scarecrow argument, do you fuck your mother with that dick?

>>687064259
You don't just get handed degrees. You have to study and know shit and pass the exams. More smarter people will make smarter decisions which could help the economy. For example innovative ideas that make shit more productive.

>>687081276
I have no idea if they can or should. Im not involved in the debate and have no analytic background to approach the topic.

What I was referring to in my post is that EU28 nations do not have a majority of their citizens under the poverty line, which is what was suggested. Its just purely, categorically, incorrect hyperbole.

>>687083440
Wut

>>687083462
Yes but we need the military. We don't need to continue educating manchildren post-HS

>>687083514
spoken like a true community college hopeful

>>687083566
Angkor Wut