>>686446611
nice dubs, the answer is no.

yes, of course

>>686446611
If it didn't what would you do about it

>>686446611
It pretty obviously does

Only if you need it to.

You know, to get through it all.

>>686446611
I think you're a faggot by my own free will so its confirmed.

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IT DOES OP!!!!!!!!!!!

>>686446611
Stfu and play this:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/257510/

I believe that every action and opinion we have is based on predetermined factors relating to our environment and upbringing. so no, I do not believe in free will.

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>>686446707
>>686446956
how can you prove it?

>>686446871
you know, like nothing

>>686447323
no time to waste on video games

>>686447556
Nigger loving faggot

>>686446611
There are those who think
That life has nothing left to chance
A host of holy horrors
To direct our aimless dance

A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings of powers we cannot perceive
The stars aren't aligned or the gods are malign
Blame is better to give than receive

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose freewill

There are those who think
That they were dealt a losing hand
The cards were stacked against them
They weren't born in Lotus Land

All preordained, a prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate
Kicked in the face, you can pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose freewill

Each of us, a cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete
Genetic blends with uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose freewill

If we take time (t) to be a spacial dimension at right angles to height (h), width (w) and depth (d) in the same way they're at right angles to each other, then free will is an illusion.

We evidently cannot travel along t in the same way as h,w or d, or else we'd move back in forward at time at will. Instead, we play out our movement along t in seconds as one might map their travel long h,w or d in MPH, with that 'speed' operating at a constant. t is unique as a spacial dimension in this respect.

With that said, it's a fair assumption to suggest free will is an illusion. The points we travel along t will already be mapped out, we simply experience the piece of it we're currently on.

>>686446956
why obviously?
its a very deep Scientific and Philosophic question

Dismissing it so insouciant makes you sound either retarded or delusional

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wkw9nvRCY8

>>686448044
the thing that always confused me, is that people treat time like a dimension. I get it's convenient to display the flow of "time" like that, but the thing we call "time" is a human concept isn't it?

>>686446611
nope.

>>686448414
Time isnt a extra 4th dimension, its interwoven into the 3 spatial dimensions, spacetime is a more accurate term.
time and space are always connected,

> where do we meet?
need a time to make it work

> when do you want to meet up
need a place to make it work

travel through space takes time
travel through time takes space

>>686448785
so cool and confusing at the same time, because time is a human perception,a concept we use be it the time the moon takes to orbit the earth or earth the sun

>>686448785
Disagree. I see time as a literal 4th dimension, with space time being the interwoven bit in the same way we'd call the combination of height width and depth 'space'. It doesn't mean that they're not a thing in their own right, though.

I don't think travel through time takes space, because space is a combination of three other measurements. A fairer analogy would be 'perceivable time takes space', as we only see the effect of time in 3-space as movement, and movement needs space obviously.

>>686449068
Time is very literal. I think you've confused time as the standard meaning and time as a scientific concept. Measurements of time are, as you said, down to our perception, but time exists outside of that too. This is evidenced in relativity and time dilation at high speed and shows time can fit definitions outside our perceptions and understanding.

>>686449748
> I don't think travel through time takes space,
it has to because we can never stand still in time just as we are always in motion

>>686449748
Didn't think about it when looking from anything other than human perspective, I'll look into it, thanks!

>>686446611
yes, but no.

/thread

>>686446611
No. We are driven purely by primal urges.
Despite how sophisticated our actions sometimes seem.
Lifes course is purely arbitrary and nobody is totally self aware.

>>686446611
i watched a documentary about the big bang and it ended with an insight by Dr Hawking stating that "before" the big bang nothing (including time) existed.
this paradox means there was never a time for time (and the universe) not to exist which means there is no room for an argument as to what came before the big bang.
the universe has always existed because of the simple fact it does not not exist

to our perception at least

>>686450135
Actually we could stay still in time if we were able to perceive the 4th dimension in the same way as the 3rd. This is getting back to why I see free will as an illusion; it's not a physical law that we can't interact with 4-space, it's just a limitation of being a 3-space being. If we take free will to be the ability to influence the events of our life, and those events can be mapped to a line along t, and we're not able to influence that line as you pointed out then we have no free will.

>>686451958
but we cant stand still in the 3d dimension either.
we can stand still relative to anotherperson or a house, but the earth rotates around its axis and around the sun.
the sun in turn orbits our galaxy and our galaxy also moves with respect to other universes.

if we could find a place where we would stand still in the 3 spatial dimension relative to the entire universe we could maybe find a place where time "stands still"
but this is hurting my head a little

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this thread

>>686446611
yes, but OP will always be a faggot.

>>686452589
yep, not your typical /b/tard kindergarten

>>686452306
I think I should clarify that I'm taking all this as theoretical, you're right of course because we can't control the movement of the universe, but I think this is basically just a thought exercise, so I'm only thinking hypothetically. In reality our understanding of time is probably so far off the mark that we're just chatting shit anyway, so I don't feel bad removing the thought process form reality a bit.

>>686452656
Just like the speed of light this is and always will be a universal constant

>>686452589
It's basically just beginner class in non euclidean geometry which happens to be my jam. If you're interested, google it or maybe '4th dimension' or something.

>>686447556
It's more complicated than that, but you're correct.

>>686448170
>in Souci ant
Mate, your English might be good, but as my father once said "Never use big words when a diminutive will suffice."

>>686447556
check out determinism, and linguistic determinism. pretty neat, same kinda idea.

>>686453292
For the anon I responded to. It's the best video I've seen describing t as a spacial dimension, and some of the visuals they use are beautiful if you can understand them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG6aIVGquOg

The mere fact you're questioning it is proof in itself

>>686454172
Wut?
How?

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no

>>686454172
No, because if it's an illusion then we'd still potentially go through the movements of questioning it. Kind of like actors reading a script about whether or not their in a play.

>>686448044
You literally strung pointless words together. Free will is an illusion, but has virtually nothing to do with the dimensions of the universe.

Fucking hate this fate and free will shit. I could go outside right now and kill somebody or, you know, not. So how the fuck can anyone argue that free will doesn't exist

>>686454746
No, that's our current understanding of higher spacial dimensions. Not my words at all, they're the words of the scientific community.

I agree that it's my opinion to link that to the idea of free will, but what is free will other than our ability to change events? If time is a set 'line' that we travel along as I explained, and the events in our lives are simply a set 'distance' along this line that we experience from 3-space, it's not a jump to suggest that 't' might be already mapped out, and we just go through the motions of experiencing them.

>>686455133
Because you didn't really choose it.
Matter obeys the laws of physics, whatever they may be.
Your brain is made of matter.
Therefore your brain is controlled by the laws of physics.

Your brain controls your actions.
Therefore your actions are carried out according to the laws of physics, not "will."

>>686446611
Yes, but it will cost $19.95 shipping and handling.

>>686455472
I'm choosing to reply to this. I could have chosen not to. Checkmate

>>686455888
That's genuinely an argument for free will being an illusion, don't think the anon was even trolling. If our consciousness does turn out to be subject only to chemical and physical processes, it's fair to assume anything you do is more influenced by stuff that would effect these processes than free will. Obviously it's just conjecture without a better understanding of our mind, but it's still a genuine argument.

>>686455888
Well, quantum indeterminacy means that there could have been a different outcome because those changes are more or less random.
But equating random chance in quanta with free will is a stretch at best

>>686446611
Of course we have free will. We don't have a choice not to have it.

>>686454388
this is correct

ITS THE NHK

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Free will is an illusion. Doesn't mean you have love the illusion ;)

>>686456539
Lol, this

>>686456539
Terrible bait is terrible.

2219 Mirrors: Enjoy /b/ 1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/am3x4el6x0ly72e/L0.zip?dl=1 2) https://a.cocaine.ninja/jdkbzf.zip Password is included.

>>686447840
God I love Rush

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FREE WILL IS A LIE
RELIGION IS A JOKE
THEY'RE ALL MEMES, JACK
MEMES ARE THE DNA OF THE SOUL

We don't but that doesn't mean you should just stop thinking about your actions. Go out and feed a hungry hobo or some charity shit, that'll make you feel better about your miserable self.

>>686446611
No, but if you know that to be true but still allured by the illusion of free will I guess shit happens in life.

>>686446611
Only for the wealthy.

>>686446611
One tends to do what is good for oneself, or one's clan, or sometimes strangers (if oneself is so inclined). Just because,say, if I were to give you the choice between a smoothie blended in a blender and one blended in my garbage disposal and you'd always pick the blender smoothie, doesn't mean you lack the choice to pick the nasty garbage disposal smoothie instead. What free will means to me is the capacity to make god-awful decisions, knowing them to be awful.

Yeah, basically

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>>686446611
Yes.

But you dont.