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So riddle me this christfags. If vanity is considered an example
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So riddle me this christfags.
If vanity is considered an example of pride wich is one of the 7 deadly sins, why isn't god considered the ultimate sinner for being so vain that he kills entire cities and sends people to hell for not praising his name or aknowledging him as the creator? Seems like a bit of a contradiction to me.
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because he isn't man
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>>686094777
its a lot like somebody making a game and only they can change the rules. if you actually read the whole bible after a while he just gets bored and changes things
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>>686095076
God is the dungeon master and we are just adventurers going through life. He has an entirely different rule book than us.
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>>686094777
Also checked
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God can do contradictory things because he's god. gg atheists, Jesus wins
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well it depends on what part of the bible you follow, with muslims theres sunni and shia same with catholics how theres orthodox and christian, you can either follow the old or new testaments and tbh who really gives a fuck believe in what you wanna believe in and try not to be a cunt but you then become a cunt when you start to talk shit about someones faith
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>>686094863
So? Is he the annoying kid that makes up a game and makes sure the rules don't apply to him? Cause if so, i don't feel like i have to listen to him. Cause if god's the example we should follow to be a good person he should be a good example himself. I mean if you got a dad killing people for not giving him what he wants and being a dick to everyone that doesn't fit his tastes you don't want to end up being like him, right?
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>>686095753
who said he was the example to follow
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>>686094777
>babbies first trips
Checked
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>>686095831
So, who is the example to follow according to you than? And don't say christ cause that's paradoxic as christ is the embodiment of god an therefor they are the same person.
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>>686095455
Religious people like to pull this as if what is actually true is entirely subjective. If you believe stupid, illogical shit then you can't expect to never get called out on it.
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>>686095831
the bible obviously.inb4 >hurr durr i trolled you so hard
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god is not human and therefore doesn't play by the same rules?

If you have a dog you don't let on the couch, you aren't going to sit on the floor too just for fairness to a dog
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>>686095455
OP here. Nah i don't really care about what anybody believes in. I myself don't believe (i shy away from the word atheist cause of the annoying cunts it's associated with) but i was thinking about the fact that according to christians you can't get into heaven as long as you don't accept christ while i myself believe it's just about being a good person and then the vanity thing came to mind wich seems pretty contradictory so i was hoping for some enlightenment on the matter.
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The "deadly" sins aren't actually bad in themselves, they're seen as gateways to actual mortal sins. ie. greed leads to theft or murder
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maybe he realizes he's the only one worthy of such praise and admiration because of his limitless knowledge and power no other being can posses.
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>>686096582
>murder is a sin
God's killed some peeps in his time bro
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>>686096717

god doesn't give a fuck! we're his experiment he doesnt need to play by his own damn rules that he alleged made up himself and enforces himself so if he doesn't feel like following his ow rules then fuck it! why should he?
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>>686096664
But if God exists, how the fuck does he know that he is some sort of ultimate being? How does he know he has limitless knowledge and power? Why doesn't he wonder who created him? For God to command people to believe in him or go to hell and then be an atheist himself is ridiculous.
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>>686096664
Yeah but don't you think that if you have limitless power and knowledge something as arbitrary as praise wouldn't be of importance?
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>>686096126
there isnt an example just be the best person you can be and dont have such bad intentions
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>>686096230
seriously why should you be called out on it just dont give a fuck, honestly
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>>686097209
Because it's never passive. They're always trying to push their beliefs on other people or pass it down to their children or change legislation to suit their shitty religion.
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>>686097102

>God exists alone in universe
>bored
>I'm fucking awesome I wish I had someone to see how awesome I am
>makes people
>yoo look at mee nigga am god! praise me
>people praise

i dont fucking know, Old /b/ without all the fucking normies never would have even let this thread get past even "implying god exists"
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>>686097209
If you're religious and you don't try to save other people from hell by converting them then by your own standards you're a terrible person.
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Sin is simply disobedience to God. God can't disobey God. Hence, sinless. If God told you to steal, it wouldn't be a sin. It's that simple.
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>>686097520

/thread
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>>686094777
>Jesus of Nazareth detected
Nice try, Father God, but the deadly sins were concocted by the catholic church, so vanity is not a deadly sin, or even a regular sin, necessarily, so you can be as needy for attention as you want, and if we complain you send us to hell.
>Checkmate, God
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>>686096896
Then why am i expected to play by the rules? Because i am a lesser being? I can not understand how you can love god with this sort of totalitarian bullshit. like if you were to live in communist russia anno 1940 so under stalins rule, you would hate him right? I mean you can have a good live there as long as you show your commitment to the glorious leader and if you don't he'll send you to the gulag. Somehow this scenario is not okay and people rise up to it it, but when it's god it's a-okay cause god is love. I don't get this.
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>>686097970
>Then why am i expected to play by the rules?
because you are here dude. kill yourself if you dont want to play.
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>>686094777
dont forget the other ones, like the time he had his people kill every man woman child ox and donkey in a large city so he could fill his temple with gold, (greed, wrath) or the time he killed every man woman and child in 2 large cities (wrath) or how he mind screws people to prove his personal worth like abraham and job (pride)
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>>686098314
>kills self
>goes to hell
Thanks faggot
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god is truth.
everyone wants the truth.
some people seem to think there are universal truths such as the ten commandments, the quran, ect...

>why isn't god considered the ultimate sinner for being so vain that he kills entire cities and sends people to hell for not praising his name or aknowledging him as the creator

when op says this, hes personifying something that is simply a concept. god manifests itself as truth and love but is something much beyond that. something beyond human comprehension. personifying god and even going as far as to hold him accountable for what humans think is "evil" is silly.
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>>686097408
>i dont fucking know, Old /b/ without all the fucking normies never would have even let this thread get past even "implying god exists"
OP here, i know right. Though seems to me that if he's all powerful and everything and he want people to see and aknowledge him he wouldn't make it this fucking hard. I mean you can't expect people to believe a story wich last bit of proof happened 2000 years ago. If someone tells you you win the lottery and sends you a dollar and says the rest will come in due time, after 50 years you pretty much stop believing the rest of the money will still make it's way to you.
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>>686098314
>Kill yourself
Mortal sin, are you retarded?
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>>686098771
>assuming god exists to begin with
>"god is truth."
yeah well what if he fucking isn't, shit-for-brains
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>>686097970
You are expected to play by the rules because any body can expect anything of anyone. It doesnt make it reasonable or fair. Likewise, if the Christian God is real, then he is a douchey needy attention whore and you are just a monkey who he can torture for eternity. You are his bitch. It is ugly, but mathematically, that is sort of how it works out.
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>>686094777
while we're at it, if satan is gods jailer, why is he the evil one? or how about can god do something god cant do? or Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God? or if i say a tyranasaurus on mars telepathically tells me to worship a giant lizard, you want proof- however when you say an old man in the sky is going to hurt me for touching myself i have to prove it false - why the incongruency?
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>>686097452
look im not the fucking spokes person for being catholic, just dont be a cunt to people
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>>686098314
>because you are here dude
That's no reason, i was born into this i had no choice in it as were the russians under stalin like my previous analogy. If it is like that than free will is an illusion cause actual free will is unrestricted and if it isn't then it's not free will. And if free will is an illusion the eve and apple story is by definition bullshit too.
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>niggas dont know the difference between god and the demiurge
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>>686099239
Did you just read Atheism for Dummies?
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>>686098973
>yeah well what if he fucking isn't, shit-for-brains
good argument dude.
wondering what ifs is a waste of time. you either believe or you dont.

if you dont believe it then you are just wasting your time in this thread. why are you here?
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>>686099427
>i had no choice in it
life isnt fair.
you are still here.
play the game of life faggot or kill yourself.
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>>686098919
>Mortal Kombat
Fify
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>>686099592
The whole point of this thread is to debate the inherent illogical nature of the Christian god.
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>>686099029
>cont
Whether or not you believe there is evidence to support his existence is another topic, and whether you think it is a good wager to worship him is yet another philosophical question.

My personal belief is well embodied in the Marc Antony picture (I think it was good ol' Marc, but I may be misattributing that quote). Anyhoo, my logic is that if I refuse to worship a corrupt god, he will probably torture me for a while, but if he is not good, then there must be inconsistency in his own beliefs, and thus he must be subject to some sort of change. Thus, the torture would not be for eternity. Alternately, a good god would be forgiving, and probably not have a shitty rule about worship like that anyways. Its a sort of variation on Pascal's Wager
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>>686094777
The easy answer is that you've mistaken god's motives. If he killed a city and sent its occupants to hell for not praising his name, it isn't necessarily because he's upset that he didn't receive more praise (that's just the simple human motive we'd ascribe). It's possible instead that a godless city seeming to flourish could lead more people away from god. If closeness to god is the best outcome for a person, then killing those who had no chance of redemption to save others from falling to the same fate isn't prideful and is ultimately a good act.

The damnation part is the tricky bit though. I think the better question is; how can transitory sin deserve eternal punishment?
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>>686099790
>yeah well what if he fucking isn't, shit-for-brains
this is not debate.
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>>686098771
>going as far as to hold him accountable for what humans think is "evil" is silly.
OP here,. No, not what humans think is evil. What he himself sees as evil. Seeing as how it's written in the bible and that being to word of god he contradicts himself. I know it's a concept but christians tend to personify god and when you do that sort of thing you can't ignore questions like these, hence why i asked.
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>>686099876
It is. Just because I used crude language doesn't detract from the validity of my argument, which you are yet to refute.
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>>686100145
im not talking about the crude language.
im saying "well what if its not" is not debate.
and yes i did "refute" it already here.
>>686099592
>wondering what ifs is a waste of time. you either believe or you dont.
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>>686099876
I would argue that you using cyclical logic is fundamentally less helpful to the debate than someone pointing out what a stupid asshat you're being.
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>>686100310
Actually when your entire argument hinges on X being true, then someone saying "What if X isn't true, you are yet to provide any evidence to say it is" is totally a valid argument.
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>>686099663
You are actively evading the important questions here /b/ro, ya know the free wil thing and the wanting to come closer to a totalitarian dictator. You can't exepect me to be content with such an empty answer as, too bad faggot it is how it is. That's an answer for people who don't know the answers and if you don't know the answers why answer?
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>>686100047
>but christians tend to personify god

didnt know we had chosen a god here.
so what made you chose christianity as a base to start a discussion about what god is? why not any of the other religions?

i think perhaps you have a grudge against christian god?
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>>686100507
>when your entire argument hinges on X being true
yes isnt that what op implied?

i thought we where all assuming it was true.
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>>686100691
He's clearly talking about the Christian god in the original post.
>so what made you chose christianity as a base to start a discussion about what god is? why not any of the other religions?
Probably because he grew up in the west and Christianity is the religion he's had the most exposure to.
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>>686099834
Yeah, but god makes the rules right? So why would it be bad for people to turn away from god and thrive? It's not as if there's any other repercussions as the ones he himself makes. So in the end it is still his own vanity that makes him do such horrible things making him dissobey his own rules.
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>>686100670
>it is how it is
dude that is exactly the answer.
you are here and no matter what you chose to believe you will still be here unless you kill yourself or you die.

the absolute only thing you can do play the game of life dude. nobody is forcing you to believe in any gods. you can live a perfectly happy life without religion.
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>>686100928
>He's clearly talking about the Christian god in the original post.
yes he is. my apologies. my post was speaking of god in general.
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>>686100963
>god makes the rules right?
no. people interpret randomness around them as gods will.
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>>686100691
Because as seen in the OP i was obviously talking about christianity so don't act like i'm saying something weird here faggot
>>686100928 what he said.
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>>686100850
My interpretation was that OP was attempting to discredit common Christian beliefs and doctrines by pointing out the inherent lack of logical coherence therein.
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>>686101198
>>686101198
yes i saw it and replied to him here
>>686101098

my bad. let me redo my reply.
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>>686101266
doesnt look like he was trying to prove the existence of god wrong to me.
looks like he was just pointing out some contradictions.

why is there contradictions in the bible?
people people wrote it.
simple answer.
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>>686100969
OP here, i know i'm not religious in any way as i previously stated, i just want to discuss this topic because it's interesting and i am very fond of filosophy
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>>686101285
my reply to another anon will work as a reply to you op
check it out here
>>686101412
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>>686094777
Riddle me this OP.
Why are you even attempting to use logic with people who believe in a jewish cosmic zombie wizard?
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>>686094777
Because he made the rules lol
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>>686101165
Yeah dude, i know. I'm not talking about
>hurr durr is god real or not
I'm trying to have a filosophical debate about the inconsistencies within the christian religion in a respectful way.
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>>686094777
We're not sent to hell for not acknowledging him as creator. We're sent to hell because of our disobedience, the fallen race of man.
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>>686101727
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>>686094777
>trying to apply logic to religion
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>>686101605
/thread
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>>686101698
there are inconsistencies because the christian bible is written by simple early man and has been reproduced and translated many many many times over.
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>>686101412
Or maybe the answer is: it's bollocks.
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>>686101978
/thread
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>>686094777
God is not perfect
The bibbel claims for him to be perfect, but if he was
His creation of Adam and Eve would never have sinned, as they were created in his image
>Created in his image
God is not perfect, and we are a prime example.

Not that I'm religious or anything
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>>686102016
>>686102016
>>686102016
yes its quite possible that its all bullshit.

but me personally, i wouldnt call it bullshit.
religion has been around for thousands and thousands of years before christ and any modern religions. i just think theres something too it and it shouldnt be disregarded.
and yes i know "its so old, it must be true" is not valid evidence. but thats not the only reason i chose to believe.
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>>686102130
>In His image
>image
Are you one of those people that believes cameras take people's souls from photos?
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>>686101860
God isn't going to do to us anything we haven't already asked for, which is independence from him. If we want independence, fine, but there are consequences for your choice and actions. Christ fags are simply choosing to be dependant on god
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>>686102130
That's a pretty cool answer. But if god isn't perfect that means he is not all powerful and all knowing and therefore can't be god. So then, what does that make him?
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>>686102339
>so old it must be true
Ancient apemen lost their shit over fire

Ancient sand niggers lost their shit over cats because they were assholes like gods

Modern zealots lose their shit over bibel because it justifies their hate
>>686102372
I dont think anyone has a soul because I believe in science.
>sperm meets egg
>chemical reaction occurs
>Instill soul
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>>686102474
Fiction
Fallible
Human construct
idk maybe just plain ol powerful like Dr Manhattan
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>>686102130
>>686102474
i have to disgaree and say god is indeed perfect.
what humans consider as a "fail" is beyond god. humans shortcomings are not a failure of gods almighty power. god created failure. failure is a necessary tool that lets us learn.
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>>686102130
Actually, created in His image means he gave them choice and will, so they are created in his image as god has choice and will, and they chose to use their god given talents to go their own way
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you hate God, yet you cannot stop talking about him
checkmate, atheists.
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>>686102511
i dont quite understand the message you are trying to send dude. just shoot straight.
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>>686102339
>yes its quite possible that its all bullshit
>yes i know "its so old, it must be true" is not valid evidence
I can't argue with you when you yourself state that what you believe is illogical and not based on evidence, because logic and evidence are the only ways you can convince any thinking being that they are wrong.
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>>686102613
If god is perfect, he must also be evil. After all, he could've made the world perfect but didn't.
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>>686102408
Being this retarded.
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>>686102613
Then he purposely created evil and chaos.
For what purpose?
If he was perfect, then why would he create fallible creatures.
To get his lulz off 4chan?
>>686102682
Stories. Someone got too fucking stoned, wrote a book and trolled entire civilizations
lul
>>686102627
Their choice and will would be as his. Perfect.
Instead, he created us, discovered we were shit, threw a tantrum and fucked off.
Lol what a cool guy
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>>686102693
>convince any thinking being that they are wrong
something i am not trying to do.
i started with "me personally,"
im not trying to change your mind but bring to you understanding on why some people think the way they do.
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>>686102613
OP here, Uhm... so god knows no failure? I refer you the flood and noah. God also learns from mistakes as shown by this story, the world was imperfect and needed to be cleansed. Therefore he cannot be all knowledgable or else he would have forseen this ergo god is imperfect.
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>>686102613
>be god
>be "perfect"
>create suffering
>make documented mistakes
hurr durr its not my fault its people that are the problem
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>>686102738
>he could've made the world perfect but didn't.
what makes you think this universe is not perfect?

all the famine and pestilence? its part of the universe man. bad shit is necessary in order for there to be good shit.
its a balance.
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>>686102944
Pretty much every bad thing on this planet can be traced back to man.
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>>686102680
If everyone around you kept talking about how much they love Giant Rapist Satan Hitler, would you just pretend that was fine or would you call them out on their bullshit?
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>>686102738
He did make it perfect. We fucked it up
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>>686094777
>>686094777
nice trips

but ya, the reason why vanity is a sin is because you are idolizing yourself. the reason why idolizing yourself i s a sin is because you are worshipping something other than god.
worshipping a false god is a sin because it is not god.

if you are god worshipping himself, that would not be a sin because god is worshipping a true god.
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>>686102944
Perfect example of the Christian's inability to think outside of their own constraints.
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>>686102796
>Then he purposely created evil and chaos.
yes
>For what purpose?
existence needs balance. some good and some evil are both necessary. if literally everything where good and perfect than good wouldnt even be a thing. its a yin yang type thing.
>If he was perfect, then why would he create fallible creatures.
so those creatures can learn and grow.

>Stories. Someone got too fucking stoned, wrote a book and trolled entire civilizations
lul
yes entirely possible. there are countless stories of god told in all kinds of languages and contexts. some developing across the globe that end up being extremely similar. some are shared, combined, and morphed by people with hidden agendas.
all you have are these stories until you have your very own spiritual experience and come up with your own story of what god is.
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>>686102796
Yes, exactly, it is perfect. If it wasn't perfect, we wouldn't be anything but robots doing exactly as we are programmed.
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>>686103177
Seriously hope that's bait.
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>>686103236
im not a christian
lol.

op wanted debate so i decided to defend religion. i am in no way religious though.
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drumpf
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>>686103566
go away.
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>>686103594
but america...
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>>686102796
>purposedly created evil
Gonna have to correct you there: Hod created the possibility of evil and gave man the freedom of choice. It's not like mankind is forced to do evil. Furthermore this life is just a test nothing more. God wants us to progress and grow.

Heck there's even a sect of christianity that believes God created man to eventually become a new God once he learns to let go of sin.
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>>686103724
>It's not like mankind is forced to do evil
not that guy.
but i have to disagree with you. sometimes, we are forced to do bad things for a greater cause. what do you say to that?
also, whose to say whats good or bad in the first place?
whats bad to us may not be bad for others.
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>>686096460
Too much sense you make, sharpie in pooper, with a pic you must take
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>>686094777
Good point, and nice trips.

Your point, and countless others like it, make a logical point that never gets a self-consistent logical answer.

Religites can't use logic anyway, as that would negate faith. So they're fucked either way.

I just don't get how intelligent people can be drawn into something that IN ANY OTHER CONTEXT would be reported as a scam.

Ask most why they believe and they will say "it's how I was brought up". And there you go. That's how it works. Get the adults to recruit the kids.
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>>686094777
Because if god played by everyone else's rules (the rules he made) then he wouldn't be much of a god, would he?
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>>686094777
Ironic holy trips are ironic.
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>>686103254
Okay, so if good and evil were created to keep eachother in balance, why create heaven and hell where there is an eternal unbalance? It would make heaven hell as there is no evil to balance out the good so you end up taking the good for granted and the whole thing becomes an eternity of boredom
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>>686104358
personally. i believe heaven and hell are simply the polar opposites on the good/evil spectrum.
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>>686103857
Good point. In christianity this would be considered a sacrifice if it truly leads to greater good BUT this is also one of the reason why christianity has diversed to so many branches, some believe that no greater good ever justifies bad actions while others believe like you stated.
However we are still not forced as it is a choice. And God judges us by the choices we make. This is why he gave us freedom and the possibility of good/bad.
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>>686104092
No it would make him a fair and just god instead of a stalinist dictator.
>i am the glorious leader, bow to me, do as i say and don't ever question my intentions or else i will send you to the gulag (hell)
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>>686102848
So why hasn't anyone dared to counter this?
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>>686104519
consider a choice between life and death.

a man is dying of hunger and no one will help him. he has the choice of stealing food to live, or dying.

would the right thing be then to just die?

(this is example is extremely rough but just humor me for the sake of discussion)
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>>686104687
because its a strawman argument.
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>>686104908
How so?
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>>686104970
you are making an arguement against your self dude.
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>>686104908
no it isn't
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>>686104908
No it isn't. It would be if god was considered near perfect as in he sometimes makes mistakes. Cause then i attack this point by showing that one mistake and saying he is not perfect. But if someone's considered to be perfect he is considered to never make mistakes and therefore showing even one mistake is a good argument and not a strawman.
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>>686104687
God is perfect in what he does or chooses to do. God chooses to kill, he does so perfectly. God chooses to care, he does so perfectly. It's human perception thing, we can't see perfection in what appears to us as contradicting action.

But just like when we didn't see and know about atoms, dna and such couple hundreds of years ago it was still there. And just as we can't see perfection in Gods actions doesn't mean he is not perfect. This is why it's a faith issue, you remain convinced that God is perfect even if your logic states otherwise.

Why do you trust your sensors so, anon?
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>>686105022
In what way? Stop saying things without any argumentation you're killing the discussion like that.
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>>686104799
By christian standards yes, he should die. He would remain sinless (in this rough example) and go to heaven which is the most preferable goal.

I'll throw one back at you: you're forced to choose between yours and your friend's/loved one's life, one of you must die. Which choice is the good one?
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because the 7 deadly sins are not canon to our lore. they were made by some monk that had nothing to do with christianity.
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>>686105452
Ah but there's your fallacy. Perfection is a human made word so it's interpretation follows human standards. So if god made a mistake whereafter he flooded the earth to get rid of said mistake by our standards that means he is flawed and by definition cannot ever be perfect. I may see myself as perfect while murdering people but i'd be the only one thinking that. So god isn't perfect.
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>>686105934
>Which choice is the good one
well i think it hugely depends.
either way i will be judging who lives or dies. that is not easy. id have to go with what i know of the two people. my experiences with them and how they where to me.

it would probably be unfair to some people and fair to others but id choose whoever i thought was a better influence the world around them.

tough question man
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