>>681306329
yes

No, capitalism is rape but you don't know

>>681306329

Fuck off back to /pol/ faggot

>>681306893
Says the one that wants to take people's half salary with gunforce

Either way, you're getting fucked

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>>681306329
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Socialism is rape. Forced, unapologetic and brutal.

Capitalism is an arranged marriage you are shoved into where rape has no meaning, since you have to put out or die.

Theres no such thing as consensual sex,

The penis entering a woman is inherently oppressive, the man is penetrating and violating her and therefore it's rape.

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>>681306329
only if effective dispute resolution organisations exist

>platos aristocracy

(they dont)

property rights & nap are absolute if everyone was happy with everyone else existing within the same space-time dimension/field

>>681306329
sauce

>>681306983
whaaa... welcome to a society built over hundreds of years of wanting to be a society. Fuck offf to Somalia, libertariafag, if all tax is thefft and you simply don't want anything taken. don't use the infrastructure, don't take anything from the taxpayers, recompensate us for all that you've already used, and since you're eventually going to play the 'did not ask to be born into tax-slavery', kill yourself.

>>681306983
Oh no, trust fund babby has to give up some of his daddy's money that he was going to spend on buying a kidnapped child to diddle so that the guy down the street can fucking eat today.

Boo fucking hoo.

>>681307998
Implying most of the tax money doesn't go to other stuff, military, isis etc
You don't need people's half salary to maintain infrastructure, healthcare education
Thank God for tax havens

>>681308270
>yeah, being a freeloading sack o shit's the best, aand hey, fuck those guys over there, even if they've already been here, that's fine. I don't care if I get blowed up, I'm a tax-tard!

Chto ty pizdanul pro socializm ? Nahuy, eto napravo.

>>681308603
>implying the USA didn't funded isis
Top kek

This is the most substantive thread I've seen on 4chan that hasn't devolved into people calling each other niggers

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>>681306329
There is no such thing as capitalism. That's just a word made up by losers who can't compete. Capitalism isn't a "system" at all. It's what happens when systematic planners get the fuck out the way.
Socialism is, by way of contrast, prison anal rape.

>>681308800
And to be fair, no true socialism nor true capitalism has actually been successfully implemented nowhere so far in history

>>681308231
It doesn't matter if he earned those money through hard work, or someone just gave them to him. It's the fact that he didn't steal them from anyone, and they were voluntarily given to him that makes him the owner.

>>681308231
Shut the fuck up, libtard. That guy down the street just shat on the sidewalk after wasting his panhandled money on shit beer and screaming at cars that drove by him. Forgive me if I don't shed a fucking tear for his situation.

>>681309279
You can't logic with commies
They all feel entitled to everything just for being

All governments are socialism to some degree dude. Do you want to live in a country without police, firemen, an army, free schooling until 18, at least some semblance of pretending to care about poor people's health, etc

>>681309714
>>681308270

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>>681309824
What fag?

>>681309714
"Free". There goes that word again. It's not free. Like you said, it's all subsidized by taxes and fees. Anytime a developer builds, they have to pay Impact Fees, you pay emergency response taxes, fire tax. Nothing is free except STDs.

>>681309969
True, but it's much more affordable when it's paid for collectively, as evidenced by the fact that US Government pays more taxpayer money than most countries with universal healthcare. It also means that the poorest aren't burdened with paying for essential services they can't afford, the rich pay more, a much more equitable system IMO

>>681306329
Fuck off back to tumblr with your faggot agenda

>>681310211
Lol you literally posted this in the fiance fucking black dudes thread less than 30 seconds ago retard

>>681310148
>the rich pay more, a much more equitable system IMO
>equitable
Kek
It's nobody's fault if you don't succeed
Don't blame it on those who do succed

>>681309714
There is noting social about communism. It is actual anti-social since you are violating the rights of the people. If you want to help the poor go create jobs or get involved with a charity.

>>681310323
So is a child born into a poor family less deserving of education, healthcare and protection? Even if you said that most poor adults are poor because of their own bad choices (which I disagree with), why should rich children be given a better start in life just because of the family they happened to be born into?

>>681310148
You can't start putting the responsibility on one group. Everyone should be taxed a flat rate. %10. Taking home $1000, you pay 100. Which is less than I pay now. You take home $100000, you pay 10,000. How does this not jive with liberal's sense of "fairness"?

>>681310561
I don't disagree at all that it's their own fault. What the fuck did you think your life would be like, popping out three kids before you're 21 and your baby daddy works at McDonald's and fucks the fryer girl in the freezer?

>>681310376
States always violate rights, for example you don't have a right to hurt someone else, you don't have a right to consume heroin etc. Taxes are one of the ways states violate rights. It's about how to secure rights for the most amount of people in the fairest way.

And really, socialist policies actually give people more rights, like the right to education (which US has), right to healthcare (which US doesn't have), right to enough money to live on in times of illness, unemployment and old age (shaky), a right to enough in wages to live on (big fat no at the moment).

>>681310561
So I work hard and get wealthy, are you saying my children don't deserve what I have built?
Why should rich children suffer from the bad choices the poor adults made so that poor children get advantages?
Again, it's no one fault by yourself, no one has to pay for your irresponsabilities(I.e having children knowing you can maintain them and expecting daddy gooferment take money away from hardworking people so they can leech)

>>681310840
Ok, we can disagree on that, but what about those three kids - did they ask to be born into a poor family? Why do they deserve less of a chance in life? Why don't they deserve the same access to healthcare or to further education as rich children have?

>>681310726
Because that's a regressive tax, it's effects are likely to fall disproportionately on the poor, when the rich are able to contribute more to the infrastructure that in part allowed them to become rich

>>681311011
See
>>681310726

Also, check'd.

>>681311104
What? %10 is %10. What the ever living fuck are you babbling about that it's disproportionate?

>>681310945
No your children do not deserve what you have built, you earned it they did fuck all. But I'm not arguing for an abolishment of inheritance. Higher estate tax paid by more people sure, but not abolition of inheritence.

How do rich children suffer to give poor children 'advantages', because their parents pay more tax? Boo hoo, they can afford to pay more anyway and have plenty of money left afterwards to give their children a better start in life than equally deserving poor children.

>>681311290
Because say you earn 200, 000, someone else earns 20, 000. That 2, 000 is likely to be needed more by someone on a low income, whereas someone on 200, 000 will not miss 20, 000 and will still be far too rich for anyone's good after paying it.

>>681311303

>No your children do not deserve what you have built

Lady and gentlemen, Obama has come among us. You liberal hipster piece of trash.

>>681306329
Socialism is when they rape you while you're conscious while wearing a condom.

Capitalism is when they rape you bareback while you're passed out and you don't actually realize you were raped until the next morning, then shortly after you find out you have an STI and/or are pregnant.

>>681311418
I make 60k a year with overtime, and my take home is 40k. Go fuck right off, I'd rather only lose 6k.

>>681310874
That is why all states around the world are full of problems and violence. If you want those extra "rights" don't still them from other people. History shows that capitalism is much better than communism. Because people can help themselves given the chance. The root of all evil and wars is the initiation of violence.

>>681311567
Lol as if Obama is even slightly left wing, he's a war mongerer and a pawn of big business interests just like almost all career politicians. I prefer to go by Bernie Sanders.

Also, how is it fair that some children get advantages because of work their parents did and some children get disadvantaged because of work their parents didn't do?

>>681311831
Then give me all your stuff. Your computer? It's mine now. I didn't work to buy one, so why should you have it?

>>681311672
Sorry but no sympathy when you earn that amount of money, you can afford to contribute more than poorer people and I'm glad you do!

That said if I got in to power I wouldn't raise your taxes, it would be placed on people much wealthier than you (no offence)

>>681310874
You are in fact legally allowed to hurt someone else in socialist countries.

>>681311831

>because of work their parents didn't do?

Answered your own question, fuckwad.

>>681311764
Actually, resources play the biggest part in global conflict, as in parts of populations being unable to access basic necessities. Under true socialism, that would not be a problem

>>681307661
kek

What is justice? Jesus Christ

>>681311942
Mate I earn £21, 000, if you want to take money from the rich to buy yourself a new computer that's fine, but it's not about taking from working people, it's about taking from the super rich to give to working people

>>681311950
>Sorry but no sympathy when you earn that amount of money
Because rich people are evil right? They deserve no sympathy because he works hard

>>681306329
http://doodle.com/poll/6qzzruy9zuxyvbrp#table
pls trole this shit guise

>>681306329
Pure socialism is cuddling and comforting after rape with plenty of lube. Capitalism is getting dumped in the gutter after a gangrape in the ass with no lube

>>681311950
Jealousy is a very ugly thing.

>>681312009
Their parents, not them. I thought all people are supposed to be born equal in modern society?

>>681311950
You're a literal fucking retard.

>>681311952
Blatant lies. There are few truly socialist countries now. China is state sponsored capitalism and a dictatorship.

socialism is a disorganized community gangbang everyone thinks theirs gonna b a bit of action for everyone else but with the mass of cunts and dicks everywhere there's gonna be a few sore holes that didnt realize they were fair game.

capitalism is paid a for russian/ asian brides tied to a wall and raped for several hours at a time in order to earn a drink and a 10 min lap around the neighbourhood to keep up appearances

>>681312118
Who's to say people on high incomes work harder than those on low incomes, like teachers, nurses and garbage collectors? It's a different kind of work, but it's all hard work and all essential to society, why are some kinds of hard work valued more than others?

>>681311672
I made 65k last year. My taxes were under 7k

>>681307542
So many of these

>>681312170
Not jealous, I earn enough to live on as a nurse and I'm happy with that. Just angry that some people, such as nursing assistants, work damn hard and don't always make enough to live or support a family on

>>681312237
Yeah, don't engage with my arguments if you can't I understand anon ;)

>>681307998
>somalia standard argument
>muuuuh roooaaaads

>>681312115
Birch, I used to make 20k working two jobs and going to school. After four years, I earned my fucking paycheck and I work for it every damned day. You say you wouldn't lower my taxes, but you probably don't see a damned thing wrong with my paying a third of my for other people who didn't apply themselves in life.

>>681312048
KEK Blaming the resource... If you rob someone is not the fault of his wallet. It is because you are thief.

If people have no access to resources is because of the government that makes it very hard for them to work with taxes and other burdens. Go to Cuba and see how great true socialism is. Better, look up the shithole that Soviet Russia was.

>>681310874
>socialist policies actually give people more rights,

These things you listed are not "freedoms" but freebies. This is not freedom but dependency.... the rations of a slave... hay and a barn for human shaped cattle.

The big secret of socialism (which isn't even so secret if you read Marx and Engels) is that socialism is only a way for the incredibly rich to control "the masses" by making them all dependant on their table scraps.

Though don't take my word for it. Cuba, China, and North Korea have implemented this "workers paradise" and I'm sure they won't hold you back from signing up with them. Go on, komrade, you have nothing to lose but your chains.

>>681311303
>No your children do not deserve what you have built,
>No your children do not deserve what you have built,
>No your children do not deserve what you have built,
>No your children do not deserve what you have built,
Top kek

>>681311418
200k is a good amount of money, but far from rich, depending on where you live.

Right now i make almost 70k, and i can pay my bills and support my family and thats about it. I'm contemplating a move to Silicon Valley. To live the same as I do now, I would need to make over 100k (at least). 120k or more if I wanted to be comfortable

So I don't think 200k is more than anyone would need

>>681312569
'apply themselves in life'

Yeah people's circumstances are different, their access to employment and opportunities are different, I'm glad you worked hard to move from a working class life to (I assume) a middle class one, but the fact that you had to work two jobs whilst going to school shows the major problems in the system, you should have been financially supported by the state to get your education.

Finally, people who have children young, or who aren't academically minded enough to get into school, or who are unable to due to systemic racial and class biases in Western countries, but lets say you still had those two jobs you had and didn't go to school - you would still be a very hard working person, and your children would deserve the same opportunities as rich peoples' children!

>>681312704
LOL true socialist governments ensure that everyone has access to resources and the means of production, it's the definition, just because it has worked badly in some countries, it is a relatively new governance system compared to capitalism. I can point to many examples of oppressive capitalist states whose population have little rights or access to resources!

>>681311950
So once you help poor people get financially stable and wealthier you turn your back on them with no sympathy?
And on top of that once they more money than you would like them to you start stealing them again?

>>681311418
It's not about how much they need it. It's fucking theirs, it's none of your business how much someone needs his own property.

>>681312725
LOL as said before China is a capitalist dictatorship currently, and North Korea is far from communist (even officially they have removed references to it).

So ok, if these 'freebies' create dependence, would you abolish free K-12 schools? Or the Police? Or the Fire service? Since they certainly create dependence on them...

>>681312386
>why don't I get paid six figures salary for my gender studies degree?
Grow up and accept the consequences of your personal choices

>>681312956
If it failed in Germany, it will fail anywhere.

>>681312798
>200k
>Far from rich

KEK

>>681312468
>people that made the decision of choosing a less paying job over a more well paying job deserve more money than surgeons.
If you know you can not maintain a family with your job that you yourself chose then do not fucking have a family.
How is this so hard to understand?

>>681312704
USSR was communist

>>681312962
No, we expect them to contribute to the system that benefited them when they were poor!

The Under-Man is unconvertible. He will not bow to the new truth, because he knows that the new truth is not for him. Why should he work for a higher civilization, when even the present civilization is beyond his powers?

What the Under-Man wants is, not progress, but regress -- regress to more primitive conditions in which he would be at home. In fact, the more he grasps the significance of the new eugenic truth, the uglier grows his mood. So long as all men believed all men potentially equal, the Under-Man could delude himself into thinking that changed circumstances might rise him to the top. Now that nature herself proclaims him irremediably inferior, his hatred of superiority knows no bounds.

This hatred he has always instinctively felt. Envy and resentment of superiority have ever been the badges of base minds. Yet never have these badges been so fiercely flaunted, so defiantly worn, as today. This explains the seeming paradox that, just when the character
of superiority becomes supremely manifest, the cry for levelling "equality" rises supremely shrill. The Under-Man revolts against progress! Nature herself having decreed him uncivilizable, the Under-Man declares war
on civilization.

These are not pretty facts. But we had better face them, lest they face us, and catch us unawares. Let us, then, understand once and for all that we have among us a rebel army -- the vast host of the unadaptable, the incapable, the envious, the discontented, filled with instinctive hatred of civilization and progress, and ready on the instant to rise in revolt.

Here are foes that need watching. Let us watch them.


----The Revolt Against Civilization

>>681313029
Why is it theirs? Why do they and their children deserve to have more opportunities than those from poorer families?

And no-one's saying they should not have wealth, just not excessive wealth gained from not contributing to essential services

>>681313098
Lol I'm a nurse mate and very happy with my career and content with the amount it pays. I'm angry for my colleagues, nursing assistants, hospital cleaners, who are not making enough to live on currently!

>>681306983
I guess making people work for you while only paying them only a tiny fraction of what theymade for you while you were out playing golf with your buddies is fair.

>>681313167
Yeah, because no capitalist states have failed ever in history.

>>681313282
No, none of the failed communist states actually practiced communism. Communism is a perfect system, and as a communist I will only accept a successful example as communism. Also, National Socialists werent socialists. And all fascist states practiced fascism, even though theory and practice deviated a bit there too.

>>681313532
>>681313264

>>681312814
Jesus fucking Christ, could you be any more of a bleeding heart vagina? Only a matter of time before someone brought up race. Half of my coworkers are black. Your argument is shit.

>>681313264
That is wise to be honest, but if people don't heed that advice, or if birth control fails (or isn't used) and access to abortion isn't possible, why should the children pay for their parents' mistakes?

>>681313257
Support a family in California or New York on 200k and see how "rich" you are.

Sure, if you live in shit hole Montana it's rich.

I used to think 70k would be plenty wealthy. I make 70k now and I live in a shitty house, pay my bills and support my family. I don't have money for anything fun, no vacations or anything. My house needs a new roof I can't afford, my car needs work I can't afford, etc.

Then I thought 100 would be fantastic. Until I saw how expensive it is to live elsewhere. My shitty house would cost me 3x as much in California.

It's all relative

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The father of right wig libertarianism

>>681313073
>would you abolish free K-12 schools?

Might as well at this point. Since the education system has been under federal control the quality of education in the USA has plummeted.

Matters of schools, police, fire, sewer, and waterworks can be handled on a local level. Toll roads pay for their building and upkeep in tolls, vehicle "registrations" a.d license fees for commercial use of the roads can pay for them.

I like the way you couldn't defend your position so threw out a bunch of straw men though. Your original post was about a "right" to school, food, healthcare and you turned it into police and fire department.

Though I'm certainly not dependant on the police. I live in an all white area with very little crime, my neighbors and I own enough guns to protect what's ours. We have a volunteer fire department for which we can vote to fund and who periodically has fundraisers to which we can donate.

It's funny also how all you Marxists suffer from the same conceited hubris. "Socialism would finally work right if only someone as clever as I were in charge". Every unemployable social parasite is just fucking convinced that if they were put in charge they could create a utopia.

Fuck off, shitbird. I need to go to work now so that I can support you fucking cretins.

>>681312956
You must be a troll. What's better access to resources than being able to start you own business and owning the resources you work hard for? It is better when you're just a slave in a government owned machinery, right? So called socialism existed since the time of kings that would take money from the people so they could manage the land. Get a fucking clue.

Name me one capitalist country that is poor? Meanwhile you are welcome to move North Korean, China and Cuba, you are free to go and I'm sure they must be struggling with immigration.

>>681313834
Lol yes because personal experiences are always extremely reliable and trustworthy /rolls eyes

>>681306329
Capitalism is more a japanese rape video

>>681313609

How many people do you employ? What do you pay them? How much profit do you make yearly off of each employee?

Another unemployable leech who knows best how to run a business. Putting people like you in charge of a country is why 30 million people starved in the Ukraine.

>>681313981
Can't have an argument with a liberal.

>>681313864
Saying that people can't have access to condoms is pretty fucking stupid bud

>why should the children pay for their parents' mistakes?
Who do you think should pay for their irresponsabilities? Me? My children?

Socialism is rape, capitalism an orgy.

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A capitalist hero

>>681313958
Lol well a quick google search of 'world poorest countries' turned up Malawi, Burundi and Central African Republic, all capitalist countries!

>>681313876
>make being poor illegal, people will stop being poor
Because that works so well for things like robbery and murder

>>681313875
Question, why don't you go live somewhere else cheaper?
Where I am I can live pretty comfortable with 20-30k

>>681313864
Aren't you fuckers pro choice? Abort the bitch if you can't afford it.

>>681306893
Capitalism IS consensual. Crone capitalism is consensual with fewer options and grosser people. Socialism is benevolent rape where you get raped but they at least pay for a cab. Communism is rape where they make you pay for the cleanup effort. and Anarchy is both rape and getting raped, it's just a question of how fast you are.

>>681314203
>Who do you think should pay for their irresponsabilities? Me? My children?

If you're on a high income and can afford to, YES. Taxation is based on the assumption that we all go through good times and bad times, contribute during the good and the system will look after you during the bad!

>>681313916
Pretty sure K-12 schools come under 'right to education', if you were a BritFag I would have used the NHS because funnily enough even the msot right-wing parties here support the NHS, they have to, it's so popular.

And if you actually believe in abolishing state schools then I can't argue with you

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Capitalism is rape

>>681314371
Taxation is not some good time, bad time bullshit. My tax rates never changed when I eating ramen noodles struggling to keep up with debt and student loans. It's an impartial monster

>>681314252
Africa doesn't count.

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Capitalism is freedom....if you can afford it

ITT People who hate to work hard and innovate to thrive. It's funny many of you call us capitalists "trust fund babies" or other names yet your parents pay for everything in your lives.

>>681314313
Nope more like
>make being a parasite illegal

>>681314323
Because cheaper places are generally undesirable. And it's harder to find decent work. Which is why they're cheaper

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A true capitalist hero

>>681314496
So stupid, this meglects business owners and self-motivated people. Also neglects ALL self-employed positions and offers no alternative. You do realize in a socialist society you can't dictatethe products being produced?

>>681314670
So, you don't want to settle? You like living in a place that's nice, has good jobs, good food and recreation?

You just don't like having to pay to be there.

>>681314252
I have news for you.Those countries are socialist countries...

>>681314523
Well it should be is what I'm saying! By bad times obv I mean hard economic times, and in theory it should have been a lower percentage than it was when you earned more. Plus under a socialist system you would not have student loans as your education would have been free.

>>681314670
>generally undesirable
Not really, I live in a pretty calm neighborhood.
But my bad I forgot about the job part, since I work freelance from home so all I need is a computer with internet access.

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Pure capitalist philosophy.

>You have a shit job? Your fault.
>You should get a degree or training.
O shit guys it happened! Every person on Earth got a useful degree/training. Who's going to serve me my food? Who's going to stock the shelves at my local stores? Who's going to do any low pay menial job that must be done?

>>681313618
>>681314252
What you fail to realize is that in Germany (and Eastern Europe in general) we can compare the progress of communism vs capitalism on a very level playing field. That some african shithole fails is to be expected and irrelevant to the discussion.

>>681314560
LOL ok then Cuba doesn't count because it's Latin America, unless you're claiming Mexico, Honduras and El Salvador are wealthy? Oh yeah they're all capitalism.

Also China doesn't count as it's Asia (even though economic standard of living is higher than India, a capitalist country, and China is more state-capitalism than communism nowadays.

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The "free" market

>>681314835
LOL ok then mate

In a purely socialist country there is no need to buy anything, everything is free. There is no need to purchase due to production being held for the Bette rod society, rather than personal gain. It baffles me that we've come to the point where we are so easily fooled into believing we should have to PAY for anything, let alone electricity, water, or the land we've staked as our own. Utopian socialism is exactly what it claims to be, utopian. But that's not what you faggots are talking about here. The democratic socialism that's been thrown around actually has far less to do with socialism, and more to do with capitalism than the establishment wants you to think. In a democratic socialist system there would still be private production of goods, there is no state owned production. The difference is the wealth generated by said private companies would be spread out to the workers GASP, and not wholly owned by the company CEO. This is basically a union system built to protect workers from exploitation. Anyone with a brain would be able to see this. Nobody is stealing your money, most tax brackets aren't even affected by the proposal. If you're making several million then yes you'll be paying higher taxes, but that's because you are either 1) a (non small) business owner or large corporate investor, 2) part of the financial sector using investment speculation and ethically grey practices to exploit the market. Neither of these are applicable to your average citizen and represent indicators of the super wealthy, which are able to own far more of the market than the majority. When the minority own a majority of the market there is a fundamental flaw in the system that allows that minority to further exploit the majority. Imagine starting a game with 100 extra star points compared to your friend- you have a fundamental advantage that will NEVER be met through any amount of hard work on your friends part. This is quite literally not rocket science.

>>681314929
the mexicans

>>681314802
So you admit capitalism is freedom only for a minority of individuals then, while the vast majority are condemned to oppression by the tyranny of the ownership class?

>>681314983
.>China is more state-capitalism than communism nowaday

That is why china is getting richer.

>>681313167
Are you talking about Nazi Germany? They didn't fail because of economic policy. They failed because they were war mongering assholes.

>>681314823
I never said I didn't want to pay for it.

Well, given the chance, wouldn't anybody want to live in a good place and not pay for it? That's capitalism, after all - get as much as you can for as little as you can.

My point was more about saying x dollar amount is very "rich." It's all relative to where you live.

If I move to california, it would be easier for me to find a 120k job than it would be here, because jobs pay more there. Because it costs more to live there. Make sense?

>>681314983
>Cuba
>Capitalist

Found the retard.

>>681314929
>Who's going to serve me my food? Who's going to stock the shelves at my local stores? Who's going to do any low pay menial job that must be done?
Those jobs are supposed to be for people either working to pay their education or as means to get experience and get another jobs.
So it's not a permanent thing, it's not made so you can maintain a family with

>>681314977
Soviet Union and associated Warsaw Bloc countries were oppressive dictatorships, they were mismanaged, we can point to similarly repressive single-party capitalist states that were similarly disastrous. Democracy =/= capitalism, obviously democracies are more stable than autocracies, look at the wealth and improvements in living standards in some (not all) of the Pink Tide states in Latin America

>>681315140
What? Literally, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>681314990
we have labor laws now, they didn't back then, so labor unions are no longer needed.

>>681315140
That's crone capitalism. Where Monopolies are sanctioned by govt, which is what we are dealing with. If the Government forced competition with the oil companies, forced competition between companies like McDonalds and Burger King, we would be paying a hell of a lot less than we are now.

>>681315157
Yeah, until the check comes like it did with the west. It's already coming, they've been in recession. Boom and bust capitalism is inherently unstable.

>>681314433
OY VEYY

>>681310945
> Work hard and get wealthy
Show me one wealthy family built by hard work.
Burden of proof lies on you

>>681315284
>Soviet Union and associated Warsaw Bloc countries were oppressive dictatorships
aka communist countries.

>>681308800
er capitalism relies on property rights being enforced by the state.

>>681315186
>LOL ok then Cuba doesn't count because it's Latin America, unless you're claiming Mexico, Honduras and El Salvador are wealthy? Oh yeah they're all capitalism.

Clearly meant the other three you pedantic fuck

>>681306329

Socialism is rape and capitalism is roofies

>>681315268
Most of those jobs are not held by kids earning gas money or paying for college, contrary to popular belief

>>681315434
ever watch Duck Dynasty?

>>681315042
That's right mate, in all of them the government controls the economy, can legally initiate force, collect taxes by force, impose tough regulations and, wait for it, health care!

>>681314912
u mad cuck?

>>681312193
Have equal opportunities available to them, not mandated equal income.

>>681314990
Soviet russia?

>>681315448
As I said in another post, communism =/= autocracy AND capitalism =/= democracy, I can point to plenty of autocratic capitalist countries and some democratic socialist countries in the past, notably in Latin American Pink Tide states

>>681315510
Mic drop.

>>681315638
What's wrong with equal pay for everyone?

Why should someone who had the chance to go to medical school due to parents, be able to make more money than someone who doesn't?

Is one person worth more than another? No, they're both human, and should be paid equally.

All the bosses in this thread (real businessowners/managers please) answer this honestly:

Are you doing your damn best to make sure that your competent workers are getting their fair share, in terms of pay or benefits? I'm not talking about a lazy or always-late employee, but someone who does what's expected of them to a reasonable degree.

Or, are you trying to spend as little as possible? I'm aware running a business is hard work and employee management can't always be roses, but ask yourself if you're honestly fucking people over or not.

If the latter, you're apart of the problem, and shouldn't be surprised at all the people upset in this thread. Promptly fuck yourself I have way too many bosses who decided to fuck me and all their employees due to their undeserved "I got mine" mentality. There's one thing to ask for handouts, most people are just asking to be given a chance, at the very least be treated like a human.

>>681315820
I suggest you look into those phonies. They got rich, not doing what you think they did though...

>>681315823
Because one person busted their ass and studied hard, while the other partied and played video games and smoked dope.

You think both should be rewarded equally for their clearly unequal efforts?

>>681315638
Okay, so some children having access to the best healthcare in the world and some children having access to either basic rung medicare or jack diddly is equal opportunities? Rich people having more access to costly non-school related activities that enrich their lives such as music lessons is equality? Rich children having their college paid for by mummy and daddy whilst poor children not only find it harder to get in to college but leave saddled with debt is equality of opportunity? OK DEN

>>681315974
Boom!

You guys that think "anybody" can get wealthy by simply "working hard" are flat out delusional.

People that are wealthy got lucky. They either had the luck to be born wealthy and have good opportunities, or they worked hard, got lucky, and the right opportunity presented itself at the right time.

There's a reason they are the 1%. Only 1% of people will be able to attain that wealth, no matter how hard you work.

That's like thinking you actually have a good chance at winning the lottery if you buy a ticket. Pro-tip: you don't

>>681315585
LOL that is the case in virtually every capitalist country, minus healthcare the same is true of the US, that does not equal socialism that equals a state.

>>681315974
Because you're KIDDING yourself or are retarded if you don't think that rich kid whose daddy paid for HBS didn't party, and get a pass cause he had family friends to give him a job before he even graduated.

>>681316061
Bullshit. They got rich by seeking and taking opportunities. You should try it instead of being a keyboard warrior all day.

>>681316129
THIS THO

>>681315974
You're not seeing that things were unequal from the start in your example.

Both should be paid the same no matter what, because anything else is tilted toward those who are already rich, and only hurts the poor.

>>681315974
I'd argue that someoen who never went to college and worked as a garbage collector since age 18 worked harder than some rich kid who went to college and partied hard.

>>681315974
>You think both should be rewarded equally for their clearly unequal efforts?

Fuckwit

>>681315918
>asks for example of wealthy people through hard work
>anon delivers
>butt-hurt socialist claims family are phonies
just walk away you unresponsive retard.

>>681315336
You said that Tom Morello's quote was incorrect because of self employment (a minority of people). A majority of people go to work at a business where they are rented by the business owner and subject to the whims of the owner's demands.

>>681315825
Not a boss, but I'll answer for them as its pretty much a universal answer: they're in it for the money.

Do you people know how degrading it is to work for a company that posts record revenues every quarter and you work your ass off the whole year, everybody acknowledges you are an amazing worker, and yet the company is in "lean times" so you lose your bonus and when it comes time for raises you get a couple pennies thrown at you? Almost makes it not worth actually working hard.

>>681316129
>>681316182
Exactly why we need a living wage, and private property ownership should be banned.

Everyone gets paid the same regardless of parents, education, etc. because these are all things that play favorites.

Jobs earn people extra money, but not that much. The living wage would pay for food and basics, and the government would provide housing to all, since the citizens would no longer be allowed to own property.

If people want extras, then yes, they go to work.

This can work, but greedy capitalists already have the deck so heavily stacked in their favor, that they don't want to lose this gravy train that they're currently on. That's why they will fight this tooth and nail to prevent a much more fair system.

>>681316137
I work hard for my 70k. Every day. Even though i struggle like hell with depression and ADD, i work hard. So go fuck yourself.

>>681316570
>Jobs earn people extra money, but not that much

So no one has to work?

Who's going to stock your local grocery stores? Who's going to run the power plants, water companies, highway maintenance programs, etc. ?

>found the lazy ass

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>>681315374
That's actual capitalism. Crony capitalism is a myth. All capitalism is crony capitalism.

Here we have another capitalist hero

>>681316629
I'm sure you do work hard anon. But I think it's insulting to claim you work harder than I do as a nurse for my £21k. Or harder than nursing assistants do for their £15k, or harder than garbage collectors do for their wages. Everyone works hard, and jobs that are currently low paying are just as important as high-paying jobs (I'd say more important than millionaire athletes or bankers)

>>681316702
People doing so part-time to earn money for luxuries such as vacations etc.

Capitalism is all about get as much as you can, while spending as little as you can, and fuck the rest. Plain and simple. And the problem most of us have is not with the "get as much as you can for as little as you can" part, it's with the "fuck the rest" part.

>>681315397
Ha? The recession came because of socialist policies. Don't you remember Clinton's houses for all and all the unions?
The US for example was fine, until they started the Federal Reserve and social security. Now we have debt that is unpayable and growing

>>681316836
All jobs are not of equal worth.

This doesn't have anything at all to do with "how hard" they are to preform, but rather "how much they are worth" for those who are paying for them.

>>681316710
The fact that you only read a few words per sentence and replied with this half cooked answer tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of economics. Go kill yourself

>>681315974
this fucker thinks everyone is on the same playing field
there is no such thing as equal in the real world

rich people always will and always have had the advantage

>>681317043
>All jobs are not of equal worth
Wrong!

You have been conditioned to believe this by capitalists, but it is in no way even close to being true.

>>681317031
>Socialist
>Clinton

KEK. Three words for you anon: Glass-Steagall repeal. That one extremely capitalist policy set the stage for the recession by deregulating the banks, leading to high debt, bad practice and continually rising levels of income inequality.

>>681315585
The US wasn't all like that. It is getting poorer and poorer because of socialist policies

>>681317185
THIS

>>681316289
Not butthurt, that's just a bad example because for years they literally tried to hide their background in business, which would've made it even more clear that their show is a sad excuse for a halfhour long commercial. TV trash for the 21st century and nothing more.

>>681317043
THAT is the problem with capitalism, vitally important jobs are seen as 'lesser' because private enterprise is less willing to pay high wages for them. It's fucked up, and it's why we need more socialist policies.

>>681315585
The USA wasn't all like that. It is getting poorer and poorer because of socialist policies

>>681316836
I don't claim that I work harder than nurses or other people. I dont.

I freely admit, I got where I am today because I got lucky while I was in high school.

Even though I only make enough to pay my bills and support my family, I STILL am ok with the prospect of my taxes going up a little in order to provide better opportunities for people.

I want everybody to have access to quality Healthcare without worrying about how to pay for it. I have a medically needy child. I had to file bankruptcy because of her medical bills, even though we have pretty decent insurance. People shouldn't have to do that shit. I wonder every day how people making less than I do and that have crap insurance can take care of medically needy kids

>>681317043
That has to do with 'profit' which makes your entire thought process incorrect.

Profit is a part of capitalism, and is the main part that makes the whole thing an utter fail.

Profit is all about feeding greed. Greed is evil.

>>681317043
This

Job might be vital to business or society, but because it doesn't turn a huge profit, it doesn't matter

>>681317372
Sorry anon, highly charged thread, I wasn't sure the intent of your post, glad you support universal healthcare (or the underpinning principles of access regardless of ability to pay). I'm sorry for what your family have been through with the US' disastrous healthcare policy.

>>681315760
>As I said in another post, communism =/= autocracy AND capitalism =/= democracy,
And now post what communist one party states = democracy.

I'll wait.

How About A World Where all profits go the government, but the government awards the highest producers, and if you don't contribute to the production of your country, you don't benefit from the country?

>>681317512
>doesn't turn a huge profit

what is wrong with capitalism.

>>681316061
I got wealthy through hard work, and I was unlucky. My wife got cancer and is disabled. I lost my job. I lost $20,000 on the sale of my house in California just before the housing boom. But I've continued working hard, living below my means and saving. Now I'm wealthy, and ANYBODY could have done the same. Funnily end ugh, ok doing better than almost every one of the workers that didn't get laid off and didn't have to go through a time of unemployment. 2 years for me.

>>681317547
A != B and C != D does not mean that A = C, dumbass

>>681317173
I addressed your entire post. The state and capitalism evolved symbiotically. Crony capitalism is the only capitalism that has ever existed or ever will exist.

>>681316570
>i want to just chill around the house all day and not have to work for my needs. someone else will magically pay for them.

>>681317214
Repealing one socialist policy doesn't mean you are not a socialist.

Are you serious? Clinton forced the banks to give out bad mortgages. Do you think a bank would give you a loan when they know you can't pay for it? It is their loss, not yours.

>>681317700
Exactly my point. So stop making straw men and just debate the real issue, you fucking retard.

>>681316962
Just based on the amount of people content with living on welfare currently in the states (not even counting the amount that would do it if there wasn't a social stigma), I sincerely find it hard to beieve that there would be enough labor to carry out all of the daily tasks that keep society running.

>>681317547
lol obviously ANY single party state is not going to equal democracy fucktard. BUT several democratic countries have elected socialist governments, such as Brazil, Bolivia, Uruguay, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay, Argentina, Peru, Costa Rica and the Dominican Republic. Now obviously some of these governments had their problems, just as many capitalist governments do, but democracy remained intact in these countries, and many of them made great progress with social equality and access to basic necessities such as education and health.

>>681317840
How About A World Where all profits go the government, but the government awards the highest producers, and if you don't contribute to the production of your country, you don't benefit from the country?

>>681317533
Yep, I support universal healthcare, a right to education, a living wage, proper infrastructure, etc.

Do I support some basement-dwelling neckbeard with no job living off the government eating doritos and smoking dope while watching furry porn? Fuck no. But I do support being able to actually live on one full time job, and having the opportunity to better yourself, and not having to worry about what happens if you get sick

>>681317865
Well even if you think a basic income wouldn't work, how about a 1:10 law? I'm a big proponent of these over basic incomes for the reasons you stated. A 1:10 law would prevent companies from paying their highest paid employee or the owner's profits from being more than ten times the lowest paid employees pay. What are your thoughts anon?

>>681306329
socialism is marriage, capitalism is prostitution
anarchism is masturbation

>>681317898
>Brazil, Bolivia, Uruguay, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Chile, Paraguay, Argentina, Peru, Costa Rica and the Dominican Republic

All capitalist countries that have a social democratic party present. You could just as well add UK to the list since they had a Labour government.

Kill yourself for making me reply to your nonsense.

>>681317841
hah it really does though, Clinton was a 'Third Way' Democrat, he dragged the Democratic Party further to the centre and away from socialist policies.

>>681318173
>Venezuela
Well, I might have jumped the gun on this one. This is a good example of a functioning country being ruined by retarded communists.

>>681317865
Most people I have talked to that were on welfare at some point fucking hated it. You are making an assumption based on a Fox News-style argument

>>681318071
I agree that that isn't good, but it's much less of a problem in the US than say my country (UK) where unemployment doesn't run out and people can stay on it theoretically forever. But even here it's not as big a problem as the media wants you to believe, because welfare is notoriously hard to live on, it's very low money just to meet the essentials, if you have a crisis you're fucked.

>>681318061
>Soviet labor camps

>>681313875
I live in Beaumont TX. Not exactly a shithole, but not that great. Plenty of rich people, but too many lazy niggers too. 200k would get you a 4000 sq ft house in a nice neighborhood. My 75k salary, plus my wife's 60k goes pretty far. We are both in our early 20s with no kids

>>681318100
That will just lead to ceo salaries "decreasing" while they find some other way to get around the law and get dat money

>>681318453
No! With Socialist values obviously (not communism)

>>681318100
I feel like that would be far better than the system proposed previously, but I wouldn't really want to live under either. I just feel that if someone manages to create something for themself (you can argue what that means if you must), then they should he able to do what they want with it. If someone creates a successful, large business, but employess a janitor for 20k (simple example), then it seems wrong to limit them to 200k if they employ a large amount of janitors.

>>681318173
Nah bro, some of the parties are social democratic some are sociaist. Also the UK had a BLAIR Labour government, he was similar to Clinton with the 'Third Way' (called New Labour over here), they introduced private profit into our NHS and they were warmongerers. Now if we elected Jeremy Corbyn's Labour (fingers crossed), then yes we could be added to the list.

But here's the crux of it - you're confusing democracy, an electoral and governance system, with capitalism, and economic system. They are democratic countries that have elected both Capitalist and Socialist parties, capitalist countries electing socialist parties is an oxymoron

>>681306329
Capitalism is as rapey as it gets, young man.

>>681308765
We fund both sides of the war.

There is a simple fix for this.

A flat sales tax would fix many of the problems. Get rid of income, and other taxes in favor of a flat sales tax.

Rich people buy more, and bigger things, and therefore would pay more tax.

There would be no tax breaks, everyone pays the tax. People on welfare would receive a little extra to cover the tax, so that they are not effected by this. Example: A person is getting $200 / wk for welfare, and we add a 28% flat sales tax. Give them $256 / wk now, so that they have the same spending power as before.

For middle class we'd pay less, for the rich they would pay more (no more deductions and loopholes). In the end the government would have much more revenue to work with.

>>681318532
So the most powerful country in the world can't control it's own citizens economic goings on? KEK yeah right, with more rigid structures preventing avoidance and evasion it could be managed. And even if not, is it really reason enough not to try?

>>681306329
getthelube.com

>>681318784
How is that wrong? Does the janitor really work less hard than the owner? Is their job really less important? And even if you say yes, is it OVER TEN TIMES less important?

>>681318901
>you're confusing democracy, an electoral and governance system, with capitalism, and economic system.
No, I'm not. You are just making up my opinions, so you can refute them with your pre-made bs.

The crux of it is that capitalism is the economic system in ALL democracies because it allows for private ownership. Instead of the government owning everything and deciding what people get.

>>681318784
All it would lead to would be outsourcing of labor. Instead of hiring 5 $20k janitors, just pay some other contractor to come clean for you. Problem solved.

I think what this type of thing is trying to combat, though, is having a company that employs mainly minimum wage-ish people, while the ceo makes millions

>>681318384
I'm making an assumption based on personal experience. Fox News is almost all cancer, but then again most mainstream media is almost all cancer.
>the Jews run everything

>>681318901
>f we elected Jeremy Corbyn's Labour
I also hope for this, so we can get rid of leftists once and for all.

>>681318983
>autism

Wouldn't ever work.

The only way is to put an absolute salary cap on everyone, and a profit cap on corporations. Anything over these caps automatically goes to the government.

>>681319197
By saying 'they're a capitalist countries that elected social democratic parties' and 'The crux of it is that capitalism is the economic system in ALL democracies', you are either conflating the two or you are really dumb anon.

>>681319061
I never said we shouldn't try. Merely pointing out that capitalism is all about finding those loopholes. There will always be people that game the system to get around any limits imposed. This is why rich people have offshore accounts, dummy businesses, etc

>>681319178
Are we talking about how hard the boss worked to make his company as great as it is, or how hard he works now? I feel like this part of the argument is left out too often.

>>681319214

See:

>>681319061
This is a manageable problem, the law can make this illegal!

Don't post really but you capitalist free market people know that both milton and Hayek advocated for a negative income tax. IE money for the poor or a handout. At least be acknowledge issues your own writers a do. This world was never equal. Look up determinism and work your way back to free will. You will see there is no choice. And stop with the fundamental attribution errors please.

>>681319442
Better yet would be a profit cap on companies in which the excess would be rerouted to the employees. It would give an incentive for hard work. This is how bonuses are thought of, but bonuses usually end up being something that only applies to those already making a good amount of money

>>681319619
There will always be people that attempt to skirt the laws is all I'm saying. Something being illegal is not a deterrent. If it were, nobody would murder, and nobody would speed

>>681306329
Socialism puts out, capitalism's a dick tease.

>>681308231
Huh. That actually made sense to me when framed that way. Now I need to think

>>681309551
so we should let schizophrenics roam streets and shit on passing cars? why would you support that?

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>>681320307
Have you ever met a real, hardcore schizo? You figure it out, smart guy, they're fucking NUTS.

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>>681306329
>>681306329
They both rape you if taken to the extremes, there is no such thing as a purely communistic country and there is no such thing as a purely capitalistic country, China (a communist country) is capitalistic as fuck and america has many tax payer funded programs for the greater good of the citizens (like public roads, military, fire department, polices, NASA, etc…) which as technically socialistic programs, taken to the extremes though both capitalism and socialism lead to a small group of people controlling everything, a balance between the two is the way to go,

although if you were to take technological advancement into account in the long run capitalism may not be viable as is so adjustments need to be made depending on resource availability.

>>681320523
>have you met a schizophrenia
No anon only you, you are a special snowflake. You don't need to answer questions, just toss out more retarded questions in response. That's a snowflake's version of logic, right little guy?

>>681320523
>schizos
>they're fucking NUTS
>crazy people are apparently crazy
yeah that's literally in the definition

>>681320307
We could always provide universal healthcare so, you know, those schizophrenics could get treatment