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>>681166237
Yes, but it will have to be managed entirely by machines. Technocracy. A network of ultracomputers will be running everything in about 800 years.

>>681166237
Yes
Examples:
>Naruto

>>681166378
No, Fuck of PC fag

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>>681166495
It's true. Everything will be provided for people by the computers. People's lives and occupations will be dictated by said computers.

>>681166378
A robot dictator programmed to make the best choices for everyone?

>Are all humans just easily corrupted greed faggots

No, but just a few of them is enough to make the system unfair

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communism will prevail

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>>681166997
Yes, but an ultra machine. A ultra-quantum computer that can do trillions (if not more) of calculations at once. It'll know things about us years in advance, and will employ androids to police the world. It cannot be destroyed. It will be our new 'god.'

>>681167323
10/10 would worship

>>681167055
It seems there is alot of corrupted greed faggots hangin about in many governments

>>681166237

"Homo homini lupus"

The worst error of Socialism and Communist made was to believe that human nature was good. Human nature is bad, ambitious and selfish, other sort of things are illusions and social contracts.

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>>681167522
You ain't got a choice...not that you'd want one in a computer-run utopia.

>>681166237
>Are all humans just easily corrupted greed faggots

yes, but this isnt even the primary reason of communism or socialism not working

All humans are inherently lazy and if a human can live a high standard of life while not working (which is what socialism promises), he wont.

the reason communism failed was because the commies didn't think things through when they gave all the power in the hands of a few elite vanguards and expected it to not blow up in their faces.
communism without hierarchies work fine, though.

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Corruption and greed don't exist in real communism. It can only work in small communities and only if the alternative is a horrible death.

>>681168065
yeahh i guess thats true i'd take sitting in my pants wanking over work any day if i didn't need the money

>>681168065
Not exactly true. Humans dont act they way they do "because" It's because that's the values we've been raised to have.

In a communist society, children will be brought up to be hardworking, caring and selfless - to work for the common good rather then themselves. In that society, greed and selfishness will never take root, and society will be stronger for it.

>>681166237
it will never work unless something uncorruptable is in control which is impossible. make an ai to do it and it would have to be skynet/matrix level which means it would be able to change and not do what we wanted it to do
both systems will always fail and cause greater harm than other systems. just a matter of time and scale of damage for all forms of government

>>681169089
A good example of this is Japan. Despite being capitalist, their system of morals (bushido) that they have developed through hundreds of years of isolation and social development mean that crime and greed are incredibly low. I think Japan could become socialist if it wished to.

They are the closest I think the world has to that kind of utopia - But they still have the problems inherent to the system of capitalism, being homelessness and unemployment to name a few. Some day, perhaps they'll make it.

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>>681166237
>Can Socialism or Communist ever truly work in any form or will corruption and greed always prevail?

This is like an elementary school meme. Literally Cold war Propaganda.

Democracy, or any other form of government is just as susceptible to corruption and greed. If not more so. the problem isn't the laws we make, it's the fact that people everywhere are smart enough to exploit and corrupt them and each other.

The form of government isn't the problem, it's what we are trying to control. Humans are ruthless, violent, unruly motherfuckers and that is an objective fact in any government.

>>681169451

>hundreds of years of isolation
so, you think Japan has only existed for a few hundred years?
capitalism is a sink or swim theory. those who can't figure out how to provide for themselves will sink, of course.

>>681169428
Honestly, running a country is quite simple when you remove human error. A planned economy would remove free market problems like mass panics leading to recessions, unbiased court systems would prevent errors in trials, pretty much all problems in government come down to inneficiency and bias. If a computer ran all of that it would be almost flawless.

And no, it wouldnt take over the earth with machines. If it wasn't programmed to command a military, it wouldn't.

>>681169768

Read this: >>681169089

>>681169914
Bu that type of theory leads to problems like homelessness and poverty. Dose not every human deserve access to basic human needs?

>>681169089
>>681170243

You idealism is no different from anyone elses. anyone can throw out some catch all "We'll raise our kids right, we won't make the same mistakes"

But nigger, that's complete utter fucking bullshit. Everyone says that, and have been saying it for millennia. It doesn't stop the neighbor country from killing everyone that matters and taking over or for the youth to turn into the very enemies that you're trying to destroy.

The nature of life on earth is competitive, and it always has been. To imagine anything else is literally fantasy.

>>681170134
then it wouldnt be what was needed. to have it be able to adapt to chanign situations and evolve itself to meet new demands then it would be closed off from human altercations. if it could change itself without our aid then it is not incorruptible and whoever updates it could alter it to do what they want.
otherwise its the same as we have now but with a bigger computer

>>681169914
Ok, so their culture has been developing for "a long time" then. Enough time to have a good sense of morality inherent in society. They don't fuck each other over very often.


Not true. Capitalism leads to social conflicts. It encourages people to exploit others, and after enough time has passed, class systems are created. This means some people are born with fewer oppertunities than others, and so they naturally feel resentment towards the upper class.

So capitalism is unfair, and the problems are inherent in the system. This is why socialism, which is built around working together for the greater good, is superior.

>>681170597
Humans are influenced by the experiences around them. If someone is given a shitty lot in life, they'll turn into a shitty person. If someone is raised by a judgemental family, they'll become judgemental people.

So it's hard to change the next generation if we are teaching them with the experiences we ourselves have had, that are flawed. But it is possible. That's social evolution. half a century ago, racism was much much worse than it is today, so clearly we are able to change our system of beliefs.

If we fought to overcome the flawed system of government we have today, with the vision of communism clear to everyone, we could definately change. But instead it will be a slow process, which we have been moving towards over thousands of years. Feudalism < Capitalism < Socialism < Communism

>>681169089
If the people in your theoretical society are people, then you will have to tailor the education to target the least able members or risk leaving most behind. Meanwhile, the more capable people will be able to see the strings controlling the system and start exploiting them to their individual beneift. This happens in every culture and government, and it's due to the nature of the ecosystem on earth. Something we forget in our anthropocentric realities is that inequality is a prerequisite for evolution.

Everything isn't meant to be ok. Humans aren't the pinnacle of evolution, and most humans don't have a real future (on evolutionary terms, talking millions of years) , just like most animals don't. Only the best should. It is the most merciful way in the long-run and it's also how nature works..

>>681170684
Socialism is a system designed to dissasemble itself over time into communism. If the computer guided humans through that process, and then switched off, THAT would be the changing situation. Nothing else is needed - people just need to trust it, and if it wasn't corruptable or inneficient, they'd have no reason not to.

>>681171862
If this system were controlled by computers, and not privy to human interference, they'd be unable to. Besideswhich, since all trade and management would be state run, and all positions of power ousted, there would be NO way to have an advantage over anyone else, nor should anyone want there to be.

they can't work. socialism works to a degree allready - you have social security, public hethcare, public schools (not in all countries) pensions etc ... but comunism .. no. Comunism is just an idea, a propaganda ... it's utopia. It's like anarchy - a system that can't exist.
That said - a dictatorship will always be more successful than democracy, even at cost of human suffering. Consider this: ALMOST EVERY empire in human history was dictatorship. Rome was nearly destroyed as a Republic ... conquered most of Europe and middle east as dictatorship. No army in world can be democratic and succsessfull. A strict chain of command and discipline is just too effective.

from humanitarian and human rights standard tho - that world would be much worse for an individual than current "democratic" one.

I'm full socialist, but I'm afraid with the people today, it isn't possible. With capitalism there is an excuse for corruption and greed, which is the reason it is the established ideology.

>>681171862
being "the best" shouldn't mean you were able to opress others, or restrict them for your own personal benefit. It should mean working hard to improve the quality of life for others. Either in work, or having some kind of creative outlet. Charity makes a human better than others, and socialism is designed to bring about that viewpoint - the result of which is communism.

>>681171706
I guess you're not very smart. Because it is in the best interests of the individual to control and exploit. In your "egalitarian" society would spring people smarter than you and they would begin to control your theoretical system just like happens in every human organization, including governments.

The best can see what others can't. What you are missing is that people aren't equal, and never have been, so imposing an artificial "equality" on them will only create profound dissonance in those smart enough to see that the foundation of their social framework is based on a fantasy from hundreds of years ago when we didn't have an understanding of genetics or evolution like we do today.

So what's your solution to that? Burn the books? Hide the information? Well? A stiff counterrevolutionary budget to cripple your internal dissent? Curfews? Rations? shit gets real, fast, son. I can empathize with an egalitarian fantasy because I had them as a teenager, too, but I know reality is not like that, at all.

>>681166237
Socialism yes, Communism no.

>>681171862
>Only the best should. It is the most merciful way in the long-run and it's also how nature works..
It's funny because evolution also works other way... think of dodos man, dodos...

and if humans became like dodos sailors would eat us so fuck you

>>681169768
>Democracy, or any other form of government is just as susceptible to corruption and greed. If not more so. the problem isn't the laws we make, it's the fact that people everywhere are smart enough to exploit and corrupt them and each other.
the problem with democracy isn't that its prone to the same problem as any other form of government, its that we are more expectant of it to be just, genuine and work.

>>681172608
Why do you not think It's possible? it's all written out, just waiting to be put into practice. I ask you to try to explain why it's not possible.

>>681172682
It just takes society to "Grow up" a little. This has been happening for millenia, and humanitarian values will prevail - look how far they've come in the last 100 years.

>>681167655
>power tends to corrupt

>>681172324
If the system was controlled by computers, what you are really saying, is that it's controlled by people. Computers aren't magic boxes. Someone built every piece of hardware and software to do exactly whatever those humans programmed it to do.

>>681173074
>It's funny because evolution also works other way... think of dodos man, dodos...

How is that working the other way? That's exactly how evolution works. Dodos evolved on an island without predators, and so had no fear of the greatest predator on the planet and was wiped out along with many other species by mankind.

That's exactly how evolution works. The best take over the resources. The only thing left now is for humans to kill each other, and that's why there's so much pressure in the government to control people. It's the only predator that can really stand against other humans.

>>681172834
Is it though? like, in the UK the rich exploit the poor for taxes, while they pay nothing. But by hoarding all the money state services are becoming unsustainable. So, in the next 20 years free healthcare, education and pretty much general maintance in this country will have to be run by private companies, which are not devoted to serving people, rather profit.

This means that there will be no real motivation to actually provide a good service. Ambulances are now taking 5+ hours to reach a patient since they were taken over by a private company. Other services will follow suit. This country will be ruined by capitalism, and all because of the rich hoarding their tax money.

Compare that to socialism, which involves everyone working to maintain the country. All these services which are essential to a good quality of life would be freely available to everyone, so truly the interests that people who want to "exploit" others for would actually be met in a better way.

It will take fucking up on the scale we already are now for people to see these problems. It would work, if people knew what the alternative is leading too. When it's impossible not to see that way, people will have to change.

Leftism as a whole relies on the fundamental untruth that human beings, when given the choice of personal gain or societal good, will pick the latter. History is a littered with a trend towards the former.

When the French Revolution toppled the government there was a strong argument to outlaw WAR as a state policy, since it inherently harms people which is bad.

Today's liberals are sheep being swept up by powerful interests who are saying exactly what they need to get their votes. Leftists do not come to true power through anything but violent uprising, and when they do come the second generation of the revolution tend back towards rightism to maintain the power their forebears gave them.

So no.

>>681173081
>the problem with democracy isn't that its prone to the same problem as any other form of government
It is though, What do you even mean when you try to imply that the problem with democracy is that "we expect it to be genuine and work?" Anyone could say the same about communism or feudalism or whatever form of government.

Here's what all of you are missing. The purpose of government is to control the people. That's not a theory or an opinion point. It's what government is for. To control and bring order to people.

It's like talking about building a dam. anytime you create artifice (the Dam or the Government) to control nature (The rivers, and the humans respectively) There is a constant erosive force on that artifice, because it is artificial and there to control something that won't stop pushing until it wins and our feeble constructs strip away to nothing without their constant maintenance.

>>681174579
If the society was designed to give people that personal gain, then surely they'd choose that.

>>681174774
Consider a government with the purpose of providing services, run by the very same people who produce those services, and managed/organised by a computer that was unsusceptible to corruption. That's what we're talking about, and the one who seems to be missing it is you.

>>681175174
What you are talking about is literally an impossible fantasy, son. Most likely because you lack an understanding of what it would take to do what you're talking about, as well as the ramifications.

Here's a good example:
>managed/organised by a computer that was unsusceptible to corruption

So managed by God? Dude, you're talking sci-fi, here, not social policy. I thought the same thing as a kid, until I came to understand that machines don't run themselves. They are completely subject to human will.

>>681173141
because of inherent human nature - which is not disciplined. There will always be ppl that think diferently. Comunism trupms individualstic wiews, but people at core are naturaly egoistical. It's also a system thats not competitive. which means a comunist country will be behind other non-comunist countries that push competitivness by deafult. This has happened with every country that tried to implement it. Look - I'm not a fan of current system and capitalism (which is realy just rebranded feudalism + few socialist rights), and I think idea of comunism isn't all that bad by deafult ... but history showed it unsuccessfull .

So maybe in post-human society? But I'm a sceptic. I say we need better system - new system - system which would reward individual skills AND be socialy just. And imo internet is a good canvas to start from.

>>681166237

The main problem in comunism/socialism is not corruption, but central planing itself.

The moment it grows it starts being inefficient.

>>681173141
It never worked, because some persons always wanted to get more power than the others, causing the system to fail... Just like in Russia.

>>681175505
If you'd read anything leading up to your post you'd know it'd been explained already.

>>681174874
Society cannot be designed to benefit EVERYBODY. It's inherently a zero sum game. If I am the leader you cannot also be the same leader.

communism and socialism can work but temporarily and locally

>>681175511
Most people are raised in society to value being "every man for himself" and egotistical. But this isn't human nature, so it just takes a different upbringing for people to cooperate in a system designed to be equal for everyone. Since capitalism is completely unsustainable and is leading to more and more people living uncomfortably, perhaps the 99% will force this kind of change, and enough people will want to cooperate to make the system viable.

>>681175984
Communism does not have leaders. Socialism does, but as we were saying that role could be filled by a computer now.

>>681166237
>or will corruption and greed always prevail?
This is problem regardless of governing structure

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>>681176423
>Most people are raised in society to value being "every man for himself" and egotistical.
nope, read ayn rand and realize that china has more citizens than usa

> But this isn't human nature, s
nope

> Since capitalism is completely unsustainable and is leading to more and more people living uncomfortably,
before capitalism whole family had to work, now often only father (husband) works

>>681175730
What was explained? That you feel like a catch-all fantasy "The Almighty AI will provide" covers you from constructive criticism? Nigger, get real. That shit's ridiculous.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus

I think anarchism is the best form of running the world but love the idea of Communism too. Would take any over free market capitalism any day

>>681166378
Worst fucking idea ever. Imagine a highly futuristic techno-virus capable of hacking the mainframe / central command frame to which all computers / servers receive their commands and taking down everything. The problem is that the more sophisticated our technology gets, there will be infinite possibilities for an even higher sophisticated hacking mechanism to destroy it. I mean fuck..

>have you not seen terminator for fuck sake?

>>681177345
why?

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>>681177793
It'll be 800-900 years from now. I'm sure they'll have something stronger than Norton or AVG Anti-Virus ready for just the occasion.

>>681176915
China has just the same values that the US does. Their production is not socalised, and the few still make their profit off the backs of the many.

Capitalism: the idea that I can make more money by using the labour of those who need that money. I make more the less I give, so give as little as possible.

Socialism: The idea that by working together including myself, everyone benefits, including myself. Everyone gets enough by design.

>>681177837
Because both require absolutely no real work. In Anarchism you can simply crony up to the strongest guy in the room. In Communism you can subsist doing nothing.

>>681178042
You're effin retarded if you think that people wouldn't create a stronger virus than antivirus.

Communism can work great for some people. Stalin himself told me this.

Still tho the suffering caused by capitalism and anachronism worked in Spain

>>681176423
sure - but to make it viable a system must be heavily altered compared to "current" Comunism standard. Stalinist Russia, Kim's North Korea, or Pol Pot's Cambodia are not systems you would realy want - and are probably not something you immagine as a perfect society. The new social system must therefore be such to prevent those scenarios - which would be probabley so far from current definition of Comunism, that it would effectiveley be new system - Capitalism is also "just" heaviliy modified Feudalism - but they are 2 diferent systems.

As for human nature being egoistical by nature - it's true sadly. it's survival instinct brought by evolution.

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>>681178170
And it will just keep growing. Humans create 'this' virus, computers (AI) create 'that' counter-virus. No idea why anyone would want to undo that type of system though; we'd likely be exploring the galaxy and such by then, while having everything else provided for us right here on Earth by machines. Why would you want to stop that?

>>681177166
That the actual processes a government goes through would not be impossible to program into a computer system. Don't you think people thought magical devices we have in our pockets that do everything under the sun would be a catch all fantasy 30-40 years ago? now we have phones. This is possible today, to manage a country and all it's services through a computer. I mean, the processes on the stock market is already done via computers. Surely government processes can be too.

>>681178042
Just don't hook the thing up to the internet. Keep it on an isolated system.

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>Leftists thinking government cares about the poor

>>681177345
You're not old enough to post on this board.

>>681178042
Is it also immune from fucking explosions? Because last I checked humans have this thing for revolutions and terrorism and subversion. Pretty much all over the fucking world, in ever race, in every country.

>>681178494
This is what Socialism is designed to do. To transition a capitalist society over to a communist one. If that was the understood consensus among everyone, and we all adjusted accordingly over time, before we knew it we'd be living in a communist utopia.

Today 100 years ago Irish Rebels were fighting the British for a socialist republic

I think the biggest problem with all of these things is your expectation of other people wanting any of this. Some people want their THINGS. No matter what those things are who is anyone else to tell them they can't have those things? In the society you describe you're gonna have to take away people's things because someone else will be jealous of it. That's what breeds greed and corruption. The want for things you don't need. So who gets to decide what things people have? We're not gonna be just sitting around after govt mandated work time playing with our peckers since all(if there is any in the first place) of our income is precisely programmed to provide only what we need. We're gonna be bored. And we're gonna want a thing to fill that gap. Is everyone gonna have the same Honda Civic? Or can I have a truck? Will I be able to modify said truck? Or in terms you guys can understand better does everyone get a Dell? Or can you build a sweet gaming rig? Do we even get computers since it's not a necessity? Or tv. Or candy. Or alcohol. Or cigarettes. Who gets to make this decision? You? Me? A computer? Cause you're not gonna like what the computer has to say

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>>681178604
You mean....
>masternet
or probably
>ultranet
Who knows.

>>681178714
Nanomachines. As I've said, it will be a network of ultracomputers, so one single explosion or series of explosions won't be enough to bring down a global net of quantum computers. I didn't even mention the possibility of humans being implanted with chips at birth.

They always said, "computers will be a big part of our daily lives soon" in the 1980s and 1990s. They're right today, and they'll be right closer to year 3000, too.

Easter Rising GWAN

>>681166237
Socialism and communism, like any utopian fantasies, rely upon a perfectible human race. Human beings are fallen - the Bible gets it right, and fashionable academics get it wrong.

>>681178604
>>681179174
You people are literally talking about a science fiction fantasy, here, not a real tenable framework for government. You know that right?

"God will provide and the best will win" There I just beat all of your imaginary governments in one fell swoop with my superior monotheistic ideology which trumps your human artifice ideology any day anywhere if we're talking about winning the hearts and minds of the proles.

Enjoy your imagination, but don't lose sight of reality. Computers only do what they are told. they aren't magic. It only seems that way because most people don't understand what they really are or how they work. You all stand on the shoulders of giants, just like the machines you idolize as your "uncorruptible" gods

>>681179140
I think all people really want the same thing at the end of the day - to live comfortably and be provided essentials quickly. Good food, medicine and transport, and comfortable living conditions. These would all be provided for, for everyone in socialism. It is becoming harder to aquire these things in capitalism, so the system has to change.

Furthermore capitalism will not be able to provide any of these services once we hit peak oil within 30- years. All its infrastructure relies on that supply reaching demand, and it won't soon.

The bible is bullshit how can't people see that

>>681180336
Computers process processes. The system of government consists of processes. Computers can process government processes - and in an unbiased way.

>>681180336
>artificial intelligence
>quantum computers
>800 years from now
I mean, just 200 years ago, no one thought we'd achieve flight...and some even still believed the Earth is flat.

>>681180563
>. It is becoming harder to aquire these things in capitalism, so the system has to change.
i live in poland and when we were communist country in shoops we had only vinegar and vodka, even no toilet paper so people had to wipe their asses using newspapers

>>681166237
Why is it that when you people talk about your favorite form of government, the people are all happy and peaceful and do what they are told, and you act like the same people are so oppressive or unruly in the other form?

Guys, it's the people who are the problem, not the form of government. If people were so easily controlled and naturally egalitarian, then we wouldn't even need laws, but the fact is that we are all unequal to each other, for better and for worse.

Some people could build a fortress out of scrap, while another would let a million dollar facility turn to shit within a year. We;re not the same, and that's a fact. Some of us are better than others, and we SEE that. We aren't blind. It's an objective fact that won't disappear under any ideology.

>>681180825
Ever heard of trojans and viruses? Computers can be corrupted too you retard.

>>681180936
Poland was socialist - and it was not managed correctly. There were a lot of errors in the USSR. A lot of resources were spent on its military, and morale was low. It created a vicious cycle that ruined the system.

However this is not intrinsic to socialism, and would not happen under different circumstances.

>>681181267

Read this >>681178604

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>>681181389
picrelated

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Communism is a failed doctrine founded by kikes that wanted to rule over their host peoples. Only Nationalism can truly save us.

>>681180921
I got one way better than all your fantasy greentext sci-fi shit, my friend.

>God

It's what you're saying. You throw everything into that basket like it's a sure thing. So why not call it what it is. You're talking about a god taking care of everything because in that scenario you don't actually have to come up with any answers to all the real human problems.

>Yes Virginia there is an AI

>>681181607
Fuck no, the nazis are coming

>>681166237
>>681166378
Either that or self sustained anarcho communism and instead of machines. Humans managing and doing.

>>681181574
Yeah it was. How many people were killed by rockets before they were constructed and launched properly?

>>681181195
Certain institutions facilitate greed and competition by justifying it. People are the problem, agreed, but so is the form of government that protects a flawed value system and calls it just.

I agree no utopia is possible and there will always be forms of inequality, but we can better many social and economic inequality and provide substantive justice more effectively in a socialist country that makes equality its end, not capital.

>>681181900
This.

>>681178812
Don't know about that. My country used to be socialist. But even at the time of our great leader, we kinda backed away from comunism and insted got closer to capitalist west instead. In a sence that transition was in oposite direction ...

>>681181447

>Just don't hook the thing up to the internet. Keep it on an isolated system.
Like the iranians did with their nuclear systems?

And you still have no guarantee the people programming it wont enter backdoors to be exploited.

I know this is bait, but fuck.. you are retarded.

>>681181574
Under that statement, i could say that our beautiful capitalism is fucking shit due the the masive amounts of deaths since XVIII century

>>681182278
but these deaths are not connected with capitalism, instead capitalism saved many lifes and elongates lifetime

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqXAW2snGMI

>>681182122
Use cables, not wifi. None of these processes involve romotely controlled missiles, so literally don't provide signals that can be intercepted, or let anyone use it with a dodgy USB and literally there is no way to hack the system.

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>>681166237
If you have a already developed and educated country, without sactions and considerable resources, without niggers and muslims maybe it might work.

>>681181900
>makes equality its end

While you do that, I'll be in a country that values excellence, control, and power over disease, frailty, and subsistence, and while your healthcare system is collapsing your economy and the people are sitting around doing shit, we'll be taking over your country economically until we replace your defective government, too.

Equality is a fucking fantasy, dude. It has no place. We are none of us equal. If you think you're equal to some deranged vegetative mutant somewhere, then good for fucking you, dude.

>>681182497
And i could say the same about communism, nothing is perfect

>>681166237
The idea is that you ultimately want people to govern themselves, and live together in abundance, understanding, and essentially, some form of non violent, non coercive, organization. When you create a force of authority that has more rights than you do, this is unnatural, and this is when people begin to develop cognitive dissonance and begin to rebel against the established rules. Internal law and order is best learned from a place of mutually beneficial experience and not through coercion, or governmental structure. Government doesnt teach a human how to be human, it teaches them how to exist with external, unnatural rules which typically get more corrupt and in the end, never recognize that the ends do not justify the means, and that the means are the ends. This corruption slips into society in such an unnatural system and people stop realizing the effects of their actions and either the whole organization is undermined and begins to break down, or there is enough control over the individuals within the system to prevent any type of rebellion and the corruption continues onward, not seeing the causes of its actions until the ends are reached.

Nice false dichotomy, OP. As if capitalist systems aren't rife with corruption.

>>681182115
I suppose there was no motivation to transition. I don't think dissasembling the government and actually moving into communism is anything any current or former socialist governments have tried to do. "Socialism" has strayed very far from marx and lenins original ideas.

>>681166378
Someone's gotta program that computer.
Someone's gonna create new problems in the world.
Someone's gonna reprogram that computer.
Someone's still doing all the work.

And that someone isn't the computer.
That someone is the one inputting into the computer

>>681183328
It only takes one push to get the ball rolling.

>>681182522
>, so literally don't provide signals that can be intercepted, or let anyone use it with a dodgy USB and literally there is no way to hack the system
Unless someone with the skill and ability wants to.

Just sounds like a system that would slowly degrade.

>>681166237

communism ruled by computers/robots/AI

>>681180563
That doesn't answer my question tho. What if I want to go do something? Nobody just wants to sit around only having their necessities. What if I want to fly a plane or take a trip or build a racecar? Or even simple things like have a drink or have a bowl of ice cream. Your system says I only get what I need and nothing more is even discussed. That's where it fails. Because the second you start telling people what they "can't" have then you're not gonna have a good time.

>>681166237
Can it work, sure it can work but we have better systems that work better like a free and open society and free and open market.

Once you start putting restrictions on everything it prevents any kind of progress.

Let's take the example of nuclear power. I choose this because I know you're thinking we need restrictions to keep us safe. Well in our pseudo capitalist state here in the United states we've allowed the government to control and restrict nuclear power. Which in effect has prevented any modern upgrades to be done to these systems.

Communism and any other type of system that rely on the government to control business and even society, you run into all sorts of issues.

In a free open society and market they fix themselves as time progresses on people change and we learn from our past mistakes only to use the new and improved companies, products, and social norms.

In our fear based systems where you have no choice and the choices are made for you by a very small group we find ourselves unable to freely express ourselves or to freely innovate no matter how harmful or not. we need both to understand the bigger picture and to help us grow and progress as humans.

>>681183522
And it only takes one block to stop that ball.
What does the computer do in the event of a war, with extremely specific actions and events?
What does the computer do when it misses someone out on their "fair share", and it has somehow reprogram itself?
What does the computer do when people want some sort of economic freedom?
What does it do when terrorists attack?
What does it do when small community disagreements arise?
What does it do when I want to live a life?

Nothing. Not without another person to keep it up.

>>681182615
You missed the first part of my opinion.

>>681183835
All of those services could still be provided by the state. You can still have those things, except the people responsible for providing them do not control the way the money flows.

>>681182875
medical inventions are created for profit, almost no one bother doing anything pro publico bono
of course i do not like intellectual 'property' and i believe that there should be no patents

>>681184200
Different anon, but you can't, due to the lack of economic freedoms. The state won't provide them too easily or quickly, will they?

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>>681183835
This!

It's the crux of the issue. We are not equal! Some people don't get that. I'm not happy sitting on my ass twiddling my thumbs with my daily ration and see that as some desirable future for my kids and their kids

What the fuck? Who would think that was a utopia other than some half-dead vegetable or literal retard?

Most people just don't get it because they are the weaker link, and see the other links as equal to them because they lack the intelligence or discernment to see we're all different and some people want to unlink the whole chain to rebuild it with ONLY the best links.

>>681184413
Why not? if all the money individuals took for themselves were given to the state, do you really think providing flight or ice cream would be impossible? Or giving everyone a comfortable wage at the end of the month?

>>681166237
>Are all humans just easily corrupted greed faggots that refuse to help each other
Yes, that's exactly what humans are. That's why the whole point of government should be to curb human nature. Communism is great for that. Implementation is the big problem though, as many have said here before me.

>>681184200
The state will provide the minimum and then continue to provide the minimum.

In an society where we have free and open trade, competition is the norm and when we have a competitive market we get new and improved services.

Sure we could settle for the minimum or we could settle for progress and help further humanity into the future.

The progress leads to easier lives in general.

Take a look around your house and notice all that a competitive market has provided you. Has it made your life easier and have a higher standard of living


I'll bet the answer is yes.

>>681184611
So where do you draw the line? You'll have one retard see someone building something and everyone will be demanding the state either stop him or give them the same shit even if they don't understand it at all.

We aren't equal, you people just need to come to terms with that objective reality.

>>681184662
If that's what we all inherently are, then why are there charitable people in the world?

The problem is most people are just encouraged to be greedy, because current society supports that. But people can be encouraged to be selfless just the same.

>>681184611
Yes.
Lot's of people live in your country, and not many of them are in government or are civil servants. It would be extremely difficult to manage. Also countries don't have all the natural resources in the world to just "make them". We buy them from elsewhere.

The comfortable wage is not comfortable. If everyone gets paid the same for different amounts of work, it becomes unfair once again.

>>681184864
In case you missed it charity is also selfish. People do it because it makes them feel good, dude. It makes them feel REALLY good. Don't kid yourself.

>>681166237

The best system is one which combines capitalism and socialism while limiting the power of big government. Either or is not the answer.

>>681167055
Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely

>>681184896
Also a lot of this argument falls on the assumption that all human life is precious and deserves protecting(apparently from itself). Human life is not precious. We all die. It is inevitable. And to punish the strong by enabling the weak to stay weak will always end in disaster. And honestly, with a straight face, can you say that govt mandated ice cream would even be any good?

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>>681166237
Capitalism in concept is excellent. However it was executed so atrociously that the concept is as good as dead. We never came close to the establishment of a communist society.

The moment a division was made between classes: Working and Capitalist. Communism was doomed to fail.

The problem is and always has been scarcity. If we eliminate scarcity, humans will not be greedy. Start from the basic income and work towards abundance using technology.

>>681178093
Except that people who usually support socialism are lazy fucks that will just get a free ride

>>681185411
Communism*

>>681185302
I never said government ice cream was any good.
I'm trying to that in this world, you shouldn't just expect things. You should expect to work for them. And that won't be easy, but it is by far the most rewarding way of doing things.

>>681185411
> If we eliminate scarcity, humans will not be greedy

That is simply not true. Wow, what a fantasy. You want to create a world of human cattle. For who? Why? Fuck you, dude. I'll riot all your cattle.

Yes but just if it mundial. Not for a single country.

>>681184445
Only the system you have proposed is the same one we have collectively fled from, Nature. Clever humans were able to figure out in advance that they were the weak links, and took steps to circumvent it. The single best plan for success has been cooperation. It always works. The only hinderance is when people just can't get along and don't cooperate.

Now you feel that it would be best to cast the lesser people off, and just do your own thing. Which works for a time, but will ultimately fail. This is because no society operates in a vacuum, so eventually you're gonna rub elbows with those people you have cast off.

If you've got a swell house, and your neighbor has a shit house, it's human nature for him to covet your shit. You can't stop it. Nor can you just kill all your neighbors, cause humans are like weeds.

Thus the only solution is to just help your neighbor build a better house. If his house is nice, he won't need yours, because now he will be defending his house from His shit neighbors.

>>681167323
kys

>>681184864
Go read William Bartrams account of Native American societies and governmental structure from 1774. They didnt even elect a leader, the leader arose naturally, was accepted by everyone as the wisest and most just among them, and did not have to form a system that protects itself from the rest of the population.

Our problem is that the individuals we choose to represent us, do it through corruption, and have to usurp one another and use wealth/class differences to protect themselves from the rest of the population.

Any government, whatever you want to call it and operative on whatever principles, that relies on obsolete or irrational ideals like universal human equality, is simply doomed to failure. The reason should be quite obvious to anyone paying attention to history and our reality on Earth today.

We are all different, for better and for worse.

>>681185980
Not the same anon, but he never said "nah fuck you guys, I'm off on my own". He said that some people are not equal because they are not willing to work to be equal. Of course, some cannot ever be equal because of certain disabilities, and that's when they need help. But those who are not willing to work hard enough do not deserve our support.

>>681186100
Trouble with comparing modern societies with Tribal power structures though is that they don't translate well. The leader arose naturally among native tribes because everyone knew literally everyone. It's more like a giant family than a country. So when the leader arose naturally it's because everyone has known this figure their whole life. It's really hard to replicate that with consideration to modern life.

>>681185759
Nicely put sir

I hate the notion that every person must absolutley be saved. I get it, tragedy is horrible and makes us feel sad. I get it that we want to survive and help others survive.

But

This notion that we must absolutely save everyone and gove everyone the same is just simply absurd and isn't a sustainable model in the least.

>>681186327
But that's just it, that assumption that "no work, no help" is essentially not going to work. Because being lazy is Also a part of human nature. You will never truly be free of this dead weight.

>>681186805
Maybe the belief that its unsustainable is what makes it unsustainable?

>>681166378
>>681166997
this is the plot of psycho pass. It didn't really work out for them.

>>681186327
How do you determine "hard enough"? How hard does work have to be? Why should work be hard at all? Why must we "work"?

>>681186621
Having leaders in society is fine. Forcing me to pay money to some leader and basically enslaving me to your idea isn't fine.

In an open society leaders will arise and that's fine. Follow and work with the leaders that you see fit.

The only use for government in my mind is to ensure we all have access to the open market. If monopolies arise they're demolished and if someone comes along to prevent others access to the open market and society they should be Delt with via police(which is why I'm always saying police should be used for violent offenders only for the most part)

We come to a point in time were we use our police and militaries to lock down markets and prop up monopolies(cronie capitalism) It's disgusting to say the least

>>681185737
So in other words all the hard work with only the necessary benefits? Fuck that. People do different things and some deserve more than others. Does everyone get the same ice cream? What if I don't like the flavored offered and only one guy makes the flavor I do? Does he not deserve more as there isn't as much of a demand for his product? This utopia is starting to sound less and less like a utopia.

>>681187471
That's cause the author didn't want it to work out for them.

>>681167655
pretty sure that is a small percentage of 7 billion. Use your fucking brain.

>>681187788
I'm pretty sure he is constantly

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>>681166237
Communism and socialism are immoral concepts that are predicated upon the egocentric belief that the world and its people should be providing for you. They are failed theories that have never worked in practice; not because they haven't been properly implemented, but rather because it completely disregards the very nature of humans beings. A free-market economy is what brings prosperity to the world, and it's the most moral system we have at the moment.

I'm getting sick and tired of these millennial, unemployed faggots that think they understand the world around them because they were spoonfed some information on YouTube. You are not equal to everyone else; people are not equal. You are not deserving or worthy of a participation trophy; you reap what you sow.

>>681186805
This!

>>681187224
I don't think you get it man, he's right. What do you do with all the retards? Not just them, but people who are subpar by every standard. Who are dumb, blind, genetically defefective and still genetically viable?

Do you treat them just like the AAA+ motherfucker who understands everything about your imaginary world? Same benefits? Same REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS?

Dude, think about 5 to 10 generations of that. The weak breeding unstoppably because that's all they know to do? In society they are protected from predation so we let them fester into pustulant gibbering mutations?

Goddamn that dude, fuck that, really.

>>681186912
Then they should be left to suffer or get a job. It's their choice at this point and people who aren't lazy shouldn't be expected to take care of them. This keeps falling on the "all human life is precious" argument. It isn't.

>>681170911
are you retarded? Around 70 years ago they were slaughtering innocent human beings in the most inhumane ways, doing fucked up experiments on people like the germans did, and forcing women into sexual slavery. lol

>>681185613
[citation needed]

>>681186912
being essentially forced to work 40 hours just to barely get by is ridiculous.

the standard work week to live off of should be 25 hours, and if you want nice things a 40 hour work week should get you nice things

>>681173141
>It just takes society to "Grow up" a little.
that is retarded bullshit and you should know better. Maybe you should "grow up a little" and understand that life isn't a fucking cartoon.

>>681178604
>Just don't hook the thing up to the internet. Keep it on an isolated system.
This. And isolated backups for when those isolated systems inevitably get infected.

We wouldn't want this thing to be one all-connected all-encompassing system, much like we don't want the current US federal government to be.

>>681186621
No we are talking about millions of people in a tribe spread out across multiple states. Not everyone knew the leader, the king, or the mico (which is what they called the king) but when they came to interact with him, he was just like them, there were no differences in wealth or attire, he did all of the jobs that they did, the only difference was in his 'spirit', disposition or mindset. The one thing different in each of our societies is the degree of technological development. What we have now since the industrial age is essentially corporate feudalism. But these native americans would have never gone for that, they respected themselves enough to choose not to work on someone elses 'farm'. And they would have never attempted to gain ownership of the ground and prevent people from growing their own food on it. Lol. Even if they had technology. They would not have developed the same system of governance as we have today because they had a deeper respect for what is 'everyones' and in what ways we are intrinsically equal.

>>681188408
Sanders supporters in general. Not that there aren't hard workers supporting him. But everyone I know is someone who's never been able to hold down a job and now that their history degree isn't helping them out at all they just want someone to come along and make either their loans go away or give them free higher education at a graduate level. That or legalize weed.

>>681173141
so how would you put it into practice without forcing people to get on your high horse? As a grown up you should be able to provide an adequate answer.

>>681188817
Not that guy but as a grown up he shouldn't want anyone telling him what he can and can't have like a child. People should just deal with themselves like adults and not want to fuck with one another

>>681174214
or maybe people could change and stop being fucking loser degenerates and get a fucking job at a private company that provides these services at a reasonable fee, since we wouldn't be suffering inflation due to your retard economic policies.

>>681167700
Nopey
Pol Pot wanted a stoneage communism and he was right, capitalism and monarchism ruined human nature.

>>681188160
But that's not what we see when you look at what happens to populations. Poor, undereducated chumps breed like crazy that way. That's why you educate them.

look any two countries, compare average level of education and then measure how often they get knocked up. Look at just poverty levels in your own community. They are stupid cause they're uneducated, they're uneducated cause they're poor, and they're poor cause they're stupid. You can't make someone not stupid but you Can improve their education.

Otherwise what else are you gonna do with them? You can't kill them off, people have been trying that for hundreds of thousands of years, hasn't worked yet. You can't pack them up and ship them out cause eventually they will just be shipped back.

The stupids are a big old shit sandwich it's true. But it's one you gotta eat. We all gotta eat it. Cause it's not gonna ever go away till we do.

Cause otherwise what other solution is there but to educate?

>>681169451
the big problem with japan is that they make shitty gay cartoons

>>681189378
>believing in fixed human nature
0/10

>>681176602
you're right, communism doesn't have leaders, because the only way to implement it on a national scale is by force of government. you people really dislike critical thinking, don't you?

>>681177345
>I think anarchism is the best form of ruining the world but love the idea of Communism too.
FTFY

>>681189523
Vuck cuvk cuck

>>681166378
>technocracy
Kekd

>>681188260
>left to suffer or get a job
And they will, but when it's a job that makes You suffer don't expect them to give a shit.

>>681178604
if it's not connected to the internet, then how will it prevent thought crime?

>>681189701
???

Socialism works... you only have to add a nacional- before and that's it

Both communism and socialism are designed to fail, Government control of industry and production would force the government to produce based on needs over wants, so as a result quality would be deemed over a basic necessity not over a product which one would purchase and assume would receive improvements. Heavy taxation of the people will only inflate and devalue the currency as a result of decreased consumer spending due to lack of money. Whose to say the government wouldn't be the greatest monopoly of all, setting regulations on minimum wage and enforcing those regulations regardless of what you want, instead only for what you need, to provide a truly equal society.
The lack of innovation in consumer goods will create a lack of culture. How you say? The lack of improvements and need to improve to sell products and fuel competition will make things generic and based off of only need and not individual want, so as a result music, art and other aspects of culture would see no improvement and would instead be a product of needs. Music more than art was not only a form of expression but a market as well, artists would create content to appeal to a fan base, and the industry would see gradual improvements over time to meet demand, such as the creation of new musical genres such as the transition from Jazz to Swing and from Swing to Rock N Roll during the early 1900s.

>>681180563
>Furthermore capitalism will not be able to provide any of these services once we hit peak oil within 30- years. All its infrastructure relies on that supply reaching demand, and it won't soon.
are you retarded? Capitalism is the reason we aren't completely dependent on oil, dipshit.

>>681189422
>The stupids are a big old shit sandwich it's true. But it's one you gotta eat.

No, you're wrong. People aren't the same, and I don't owe those people a goddamn thing. Especially not a good life. I'm sorry to be real in all this fantasy and rhetoric, but it's true.

I don't owe them, or you a fucking thing, and honestly, the right thing to do would be to control reproductive rights on a top level, with the objective scientific understanding that people are not equal and some are better or worse than others.

I agree that people need to be educated, but that doesn't work with a consciousness incompatible with education. Try uplifting all the cats and dogs while you're at it, if you think it's possible. The solution we have for them is that we round them up into concentration camps and wipe them out en masse and any survivors are subject to mandatory sterlization before release.

Enough with the fantasy of equality. It's incorrect. I don't give a fuck how sad it makes people, It makes me sad that I have to be faced with the refuse of our society to this point. Enough is enough. There would be less sadness to control them sooner than later. The same with dogs and cats.

>>681190052
>nacional
Kek

>>681187594
second post said communism worked in naruto but I didn't see you shitting on his post, faggot.