Anyone have any personal experiences?

>>679917832
>shove her head in the toilet
topkek

>>679918414
Any experiences anon?

They don't exist. As in there is no quantifiable evidence of them. Weird shit happens. But ghosts? Nope.

>>679917832
Lost

>>679917832
lost hard

>when your own .gif derails your thread
This is now a swirly thread

>>679918911
I understand that, but you'd think with the lack of information no one would even claim that they went through an experience.

>>679919526
I should've picked a better picture.

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So my mom's co-worker said his son saw a ghost on their baby monitor. And they took a photo of it. What are your thoughts? They went,into the baby's room but nothing was in that chair. She was there for about an hour.

Science tells us that energy is neither created or destroyed, it just exists. So what happens to human energy after death? Science has proven that ghosts exist.

>>679919780
That is very creepy. Any idea who that might be?

Underrated thread

>>679920280
They did research on the family and they believe it's the great grandmother. She was an avid knitter and lived in that house.

>>679919780
I have no idea what im looking at...

>>679919780
00:20 am here
i dont want to sleep anyway

>>679920617
See a woman in the chair knitting?

Underrated thread

>>679919563
>implying people wouldn't lie
Kek

>>679920039
>human energy

>>679917832
>Do ghosts really exist /b/?

No.

>>679920039
Do you try to kill brain cells or does it just come naturally to you?

>>679920942

/thread

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>>679919780
There's fat ghosts who wear cargo shorts? Looks like Louie just broke in

>>679920836
hmm i guess thats pretty sp00ky

>>679920617
Look at the left side of the picture. There's an outline of a woman knitting next to the crib.
>>679920434
It's very interesting to know that a member of their family would still be there. I'm trying to find a logical reason why this is a fake image but im drawing up blanks.

>>679920636
I'm glad you guys are receptive of this. I was really skeptical. My mom is going nuts over it because it's coming from her trusted co-worker and not some,ontermet source.

Ghosts are reel i seed wahn check

>>679919563
People also claim to have been butt-raped by aliens.

The reason people claim to have "experiences" is because of a large variety of reasons, primarily the fact we have imaginations, ear "excites" it, and we don't want to be alone in existence (and we have a hard time letting go). So when spooky things happen, we start imagining things unintentionally. And when we feel alone (even subconsciously), we are more "open" to feeling like we aren't alone when we are.

>>679920039
That's like saying that when a candle is blown out, the flame must go somewhere. When we die, our neurological activity ceases. The electrical pulses generated by our brains is the closet thing to a soul scientists have proven.

>>679920836
I see it now... Fuck... I see it now...

>>679920039
>throwing around words like energy when you have no idea what it means
>bastardizing conservation of energy/mass

>>679920836
I don't even see a chair. The picture is crap quality.

>>679919780
There's a stranger in the room with their baby and they watch her for an hour and takes a picture before going in there?

>>679920877
No I completely understand that this is the internet and lies do in fact exist. I'm just really interested in the topic due to a story from a coworker.
>>679920636
Apologies anon.

>>679917832
Weirdest boner in a week

>>679920836
Either that or a man having sex with a very oddly shaped woman who has a lot of tattoos on her thigh.

Ghosts are remnants of 4th dimensional beings, bush lied to us about 9/11

>>679918186
i was told by a friend (didn't experience it yet)
that you have to space out so you can see the ghosts/spirits/aura/whatev
if you focus, you'll she the material thing in front of you. you have to stare at nothing and then you'll be able to see. once you see it, don't focus your eyes again, your vision will go through the ghost. you have to remain unfocused, keep your perception open

>>679917832

They don't exist, but obscene amounts of money is indeed spent on research, even by some universities.

>>679917832
All those niggers that died in the south. All these modern ghost story shows. When have you ever seen a black ghost?
/thread

>>679921073
I tried reverse image searches and stuff. I can't really find anything similar. I posted it on here to see if it could be immediately debunked. I am very skeptical still

>>679921467
>/thread on your own post
Please kys

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Basically if you add semen to your grandmothers ashes the salt makes a reaction in which a ghost magically appears

>>679921322
I see that too.

translate this, please... im lazy to write in english.. its late here.
En la casa de mi tía murió la dueña del lugar. Hasta hace un año pasaban muchas cosas, desde ruídos durante la tarde hasta la noche.
Se podía ver incluso a personas en lugares dónde no había nadie (personas del entorno familiar nuestro)
Una noche estaba viendo una pelicula, de repente se apagó el televisor y se prendió sólo mostrando una señal estática. Me asusté mucho y me fuí a dormir.

Saludos desde Argentina :)

>>679921184
Logical and understandable. Thank you anon. I find it hard to believe in these stories myself, but it could also be that nothing has happened in my life to make me believe in these things.

>>679921424
I don't blame them too much. It'sa natural feeling, and for all we know, something useful may come out of it.

Hell, imagine all of the fields of science that were "stupid" before they made some big discovery that made them "legit".

>>679921697
che chori

>>679921273
They went into the room several times with nothing but the baby in there sleeping. They called their parents over (my mom's coworker, the baby's grandparents) and they checked the room. Nothing. But still an image,on the monitor.

Ghosts are bs, I regularly get sleep paralysis and see some fucked up shit before snapping out of it.

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>>679919780
Found her.

>>679921576
Got me!... you sunuvabitch.

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>>679921424

>>679921576
>.gif
no thanks

>>679921786
che manaos

>>679921883
>they will be all turn to women in the remake
God kill me

The interesting thing is people assume "ghosts" are the spirits of dead people.

There is no reason to assume they are associated with humanity at all.

Spirits exist

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>>679920039
Weave thread into cloth.

Appreciate a pattern woven into the cloth. The cloth is made of thread, but the pattern isn't made of anything; it is the specific state of the cloth.

Unravel the cloth. The cloth becomes thread. Where does the pattern go? It doesn't go anywhere. It didn't come from anywhere. It existed only while the thread was cloth, and exists no longer.

Live your life to the fullest. It's the only one you will ever get.

It doesn't go anywhere.

>>679921576
Ain't clickin that shit nigga

>>679921184
There are enough BTUs in the human body to run an air conditioner. That's energy. Where does it go when we die?

>>679922055
it hasn't happened, lets keep ignoring it.

>>679921698
I think it's weird how easily these experiences can be explained. I also find it hilarious that it essentially all happens because of things nature programmed into us as wee evolved.

I think believing in shit like this is more about personal experience. I gotta say having lived through some pretty bizarre shit in my old condo it turned me into a believer when I was out of logical answers to explain the shit that went on there.

>>679921848
Why is it always fucked up shit you see?

I honestly try to have an open mind to these things, but I always remain skeptical.
>>679921830
Mind if we know the name of the house or the people? I'm a bit interested in learning more about that picture.

>>679921339
>keep your perception open
I guarantee you just recently started smoking weed

>>679921848
I get that shit to alot and i see some fucked up shit but at this point i got used to it any idea what is it we see and some timez i feel like i can hear everything even in upstairs but i cant react to it

>>679922157
>being this fucking retarded
Energy is produced in the human body by breaking down and oxidizing hydrocarbons.
This is the process your mom is referencing when she tells your fat ass to go outside and burn some calories.

>>679922157
Well, I assume a large portion of energy in our bodies comes from the chemical reactions in our various muscles as they turn carbohydrates into energy. So when we die, they stop performing these chemical reactions and our energy dies out. Anything else just contributes to decomposition.

>>679922490
Dammit, you beat me too it.You posted as I was doing the captcha.

>>679921830
What happened on the monitor when they went in the room?

>>679922412
I don't have any names. Im sorry. But it happened in the northern Illinois region. I could ask my mom I suppose but she's in bed now and this will 404 before tomorrow.

>>679922067
That actually sounds very logical anon. What about the eerie and familiar shapes in which they usually appear in though?

>>679921697
denunciado maquinola

>>679922490
Mommy's big boy get all the exercise he needs playing Nintendo

>>679922067
they usually have human shape. but that could be explained by pareidolia as well

>>679922215
i asked my friend if it's possible that ghosts are merely a form of psychometry
like you read information left behind
many people usually have knowledge from "a ghost" even if they didn't visit the place. half the time is self-fulfill confirmation, i admit (for example guessing that there took executions in one place), other times "the ghost" (the information left in that place) "speaks"

>>679922421
i don't smoke. it's a disgusting habit

>>679922739
denunciado papu

>>679919780

Would have been nice to have a recording instead of a pic, especially with one of the parents entering the room.

>>679922683
They all went into the room to look I think. When they came back she was still there. Then they took the photo. The woman was,there for about an hour they said.

>>679922320
I'm an anxious person so I guess I only get nightmares during sleep paralysis, e.g. Red eyed shadowy figures that creep closer within my peripheral vision

>>679922712
Understandable and thank you anyway anon. It's a very interesting picture.

>>679922683
That's bullshit one person would wait to see what happens on the monitor if they weren't all super autistic

>>679922951
I know I know. My mom is very spiritual so she was mad at me when I was asking all these questions. I wish they had a recording.

>>679917832
ghosts are timetravelers who are visible for a short time when the atomclock in their timemachine accidently runs at the exact same rithm as the atomclock in the time they want to visit.

My friends dad used to own an auto body shop, and for the last 15 years all the new employees have all reported seeing a guy with red hair wearing reeboks walking through the hallways.... Not only do ghosts exist but they exist as they were... wearing reeboks.

>>679921697
whitest post ITT

>>679917832
/x

>>679923013
Thank you for talking with me. I am still very skeptical. But it's the closest to a personal ghost experience I have ever come to. This is my first time posting this image on 4chan. I might try /x/ too.

>>679922103
That's some deep stuff, nigga

>>679922977
Wait til they start dragging you from your sleep

Can't see shit in "ghost" baby monitor pic

>>679918186
My family's old house was haunted
Both my parents saw the ghost of young boy
The previous owners young sons died in a car accident a few years prior
It was a spooky house

>>679922962
Sorry I responded to myself, refer to
>>679923186

>>679920039
it becomes potential engergy in soil

>>679917832
Considering that the scientific consensus is that ghosts don't exist, they very probably don't exist.

>>679921697
That's a really creepy story anon. What's the scariest thing that has ever happened in that house?

>>679923519
They will tear it apart, ironically you're sometimes safer on /b/.

>>679920039
Yea and what happens when the same pattern reappears? in new woven cloth?

I've seen a black ghost walk past my door in broad day light. I felt an immediate sense of evil overcome me and I looked dead at it straight on. I felt so scared I prayed about it.It was the shape of a human, but no defining features. Just black outline of a human body walking swiftly.

>>679923311
Kek, nice dubs

>>679923690
I know. I'm skeptical still. But it's the closest I've been to someone's personal ghost experience.

>>679922103
seriously thanks anon i'm gonna remember this

you're a poet

>>679922103
awesome, thanks. Im not OP
Whats the picture about

>>679923909

Easier said than done.

>>679923600
Dubs. The mass on the left of the photo. Woman knitting in a chair. Room was empty besides baby when ivestigated.

>>679921697
De que parte papu?

>>679917832
dude there's no such thing as life before death srsly
Men find it dificult to even imagine what is like to stop existing so you have shit like ghosts and resurrection and whatever but the thing is, you die and that's it.

>>679923519
I appreciate your contribution to this thread anon. Thank you.

Whenever a close family dies, a blue butterfly lands on my window sill and stays there for a few hours, at no other point in time does this occur. This usually happens before receiving the news of their death. Coincidence or is there some spooky shit going on?

>>679924091
The pattern did exist though, was experienced, and nothing will ever change that.
Time cannot be erased.

>>679922103
Deep.

>>679924270
Of course! Stay safe. I'm gonna get some sleep.

>>679917832
>posting a pic unrelated without mentioning it

>poop

>>679921576
"Why can't I zoom in"
Heart attack

Okay i have to tell u my friend dad have an apartment for him self but he lives alon so he rent some guys because he works at night shift as a garud so 4 guys left the apartment because the tell him tge see white shit flying there until he took a day off and sow that shit he sold it and the guy who sold it to wanted to give it back because he hears some sounds

>>679922103
His argument really simplifies the infinite complexity of life though, and patterns do re-emerge. The pattern itself is unique, and its own entity regardless of the cloth/time

>>679924333
Well, that depends I guess. How many blue butterflies have you seen in your lifetime anon? Nice trips by the way.

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>>679924061

Shading for pixel art. Choosing interweaving colors, so that a single pixel can "belong" to more than objects as perceived by the viewer.

>>679920039
>Science has proven that ghosts exist.
Do you think a human's energy is literally just magic that makes him walk around like enchanted puppet, and that he's otherwise a hollow flesh-puppet? There is very little mystery to the process of decomposition and where the energy goes.

So if your definition of a ghost is "fertile soil", then yes, science has proven ghosts.

I produce baby ghosts all the time.

>>679924391
Same to you, have a pleasant rest.

>>679924515
Great story!
Capped for future cringe threads.

Say you live the average 86 (or whatever) years. There is still an infinite amount of years that happen before and after your life. The odds of you living in this time and space and not experiencing anything before or after is 86/infinity. Those odds are too low for me to believe so something has to be beyond this life

>>679923816
ARG here, still translate please.

La peor cosa que me haya pasado en esa casa:
En vacaciones, cuándo era más joven (11-12 años) me iba a quedar en su casa. Una noche me quedo a dormir en el dormitorio de mi prima, me levanto en medio de la noche para ir al baño y veo a mi prima durmiendo en su propia cama. Pensé "que bueno, ella vino temprano de trabajar" luego de ir al baño fuí a dormir.
Me despierto horas mas tarde porque alguien prende la luz del dormitorio, era mi prima que estaba vestida con su bolso y le pregunto "Hoy tienes que ir a trabajar de día?" ella me responde "No, acabo de llegar de trabajar"
No quise dormir más en ese lugar desde ese día.

>>679920434
Why is the ghost knitting during the night?

Case closed.

>>679924802
HAHAHA

>>679917832
There's no quantifiable proof. Although considering pretty much every culture, including the most remote ones, believe in ghosts, makes me believe that there is something to it, even if its just some sort of an inborn quirk in the perception of humans.

>>679924627
ok cool

Story would have been cooler if the family found a knitted blanket or cum sock in the room.

>>679924602
Rarely any, if I see any they're usually grey with black dots or red with black

>>679924641
Science also hasn't figured out life yet.

This is why we don't have an artificial intelligence. It's not that we lack the tools or hardware. We do not understand the process.

>>679924802
But its true man i dont even have to say more

>>679925145
>There's no quantifiable proof
and this is why science will never touch the subject
unless there's something to measure about, there's no possibility of scientific method being applied

>>679924627
Explain that in easier terms

>be 19
>summer before I move away to college
>go ride bike to a ditch behind the neighborhood, nice sunny day smoke a j
>ride back home, start putting away laundry
>be putting hoodie on a hanger
>all of the sudden chair falls over (it was a fold up metal chair from ikea)
>before I have time to register wtf just happened my closet door shut fully
>didn't slam but just swiftly shut
>my heart explodes
>put hanger and hoodie down and nope out of my room briskly
>my mom is chatting with neighbor in the kitchen
>they see my face and my mom asks "what's wrong lol"
>tell her what happened
>neighbor pipes in that strange stuff occurs in her house as well
>her husband was an army guy and wasn't a believer
>he would dismiss any noise and insisted that logical explanations were the right ones
>strange bumps and noises in their house, would hear footsteps walking and running
>eventually he started believing

This made me feel like I wasn't just going crazy, but I still sort of doubted what just happened. It was kinda unreal. Also I was a bit stoned so I thought maybe it was just some weird hallucination or something but no way. It happened. Nothing ever happened after that and I even slept in my room that night with nothing occurring.

>>679924884
a la concha
larga la falopa ameo

>>679924091

There is not doing it, it is just what happens, patterns are unique and they are their own entity, there can be variants of a pattern as well, and 'generation' from an initial pattern which is what life is. There is a 'human' generic pattern that we all are using and we are all generating variants of that human code. You can always generate more from a starting point, there is nothing that says you never generate more or have to stop generating a pattern once you have already started

>>679924884
Whoa, I felt a chill run down my spine from reading that. That is not an experience that I would want to go though anon. Are your relatives still living in that same house?

>>679924234
Buenos Aires, lince. Vos?

>>679925664
I've never seen/heard of a ghost fuck with a slider door.
Imma build a house with only slider doors.

>>679925722
Pero es cierto! jajaja

(sé que dije "tienes" pero se lo escribí para que le sea más fácil la traducción)

De verdad siguen pasando cosas raras en ese lugar, pero como que ya estamos un poco resignados. Sobretodo ellos que son los que viven ahí.

>>679925853
Tambien ! ¿Por que no te quedaste mirando la señal para ver si se intentaban comunicar con vos?

>>679921184
>not beliving in alien abductions
Someones retarded leech to the governments lies.

>>679925803
Yeah, they're in that house atm.
I go often too anyway

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Ghosts do not exist. No one has ever seen a ghost. Anyone who says they've seen one is lying. Everything you've seen about ghosts on TV or read about is fake and gay for the sole purpose of being on TV or read somewhere.

You want to be believe in ghosts because you want there to be more to your boring life and you're afraid of not existing when you die. You just become nothingness and the worms eat your body, you don't become a fucking ghost. Deal with it.

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>>679924381

Yes! The pattern existed, and wondrously, can be appreciated even after it is gone. This is the magic of knowing and being known by another person.

Some day, you will only exist in the minds of those who knew you. Then one day they will be gone, too. But right now, you're alive. You're breathing. You're experiencing the universe, which you're also a part of. Savor it.

>>679926236
era un pendejo, me cagué de miedo. En esa "época" era cuando más actividad tenían ellos y a mí me daba terror

>>679926465
dude, you're like a guru. or you hit a big toke
either way you're not wrong, i admit it. not wrong at all

The book Hell House had an interesting theory about ghosts although it gets proven wrong. The idea is that certain spots, haunted houses for example, magnify ESP and people create "ghosts" using their own psychic powers.

>>679924260
>dude there's no such thing as life before death srsly

Nice try Casper.

>>679926465
We are talking about a very specific 'human' pattern and youre discounting the fact that it is possible for a pattern to reappear. The pattern itself is unique and exists in an entirely different space of reality than the physicality of the body/material world. youre also assuming that it cant reappear.

OP here, thank you for all your valuable insights and experiences. I'm going to head to bed because i have to class tomorrow morning. Thanks again and have a pleasant night /b/.
>>679926330
Your relatives must have gotten used to the weird occurrences then anon. I can't imagine living in a home with that atmosphere. But I am still a bit skeptical.

>>679925462
No you dumbass, artificial intelligence does exist. It's just not on the level of recreating something with the truly independent thought a human has. You don't have to understand "the process" (the fuck do you even mean by this?) to go about creating artificial intelligence. The issue comes from a pure hardware and coding standpoint. What the fuck do you mean by "figured out life" also. That's the most generic statement that can have a thousand different meanings.

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>>679921697
Argentino tonto, crees que te vamos a creer que pudiste dormir despues de tener ese susto?

De cualkier modo, un buen gato resuelve esos problemas, ellos los pueden ver.

>>679921697
I'm so glad to see Spanish that isn't broken to shit with slang and acronyms. Thanks for taking the time to write a well written post in Spanish. I've seen too many posts on fb that require deciphering it first to understand what the fuck they're saying.

10/10

>>679926511
En que zona vivias? Capaz se fueron a molestar a otro e.e

>>679925462
You're talking about a lot of different things there, Billy.

Science understands life very well. Science has not explained the origin of life, although it has posed a number of theories.

We do have AI, we've had it for years. It has not created an artificial intelligence that comes close to passing the Turing Test, that is to say it hasn't been made to resemble a human persona yet.

Decomposition is understood. There's no visible discrepancy for where the energy goes. If you believe there's something unseen happening (ie. a soul), that's fine, I respect your right to believe that. But until you have a testable hypothesis, there's nothing scientific about it, and saying that science has proven ghosts is a ridiculous statement.

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>>679917832
Obviously no one in this thread is going to believe me because why would you, but I have seen a ghost on one occasion. Up until the second it happened I would have never have really even entertain the possibility of their existence but then it fucking happened and it has actually had a pretty serious effect on my world view and has made me reconsider a lot of what i thought i knew as fact. Ill green text it for clarity.
>summer of 2013
>on a trip with a few friends from high school
>the place we are staying in is this extremely old farm house in rural vermont about an hour outside of burlington that belongs to one of the friends family
>the house was originally built in the late 1860s by two brothers who returned from the civil war and bought the land and built the house/barn
>its a pretty big farm house, several additions had beed added over the years and it had been lived in by various generations of her extended family since it was built way back when
>the last person to have lived in the house full time was a great uncle who had died in the early 2000s, since then it basically has served as a summer home to hold annual reunions and family vacations
>starting to fall apart but still definitely livable as much of the time people are there is spent on repairs and general upkeep
>ok so ill get to the point
>five of us are up there for the week and its the second night we are in the house
>the entire building is basically one huge rectangle and the upstairs is all bedrooms and one bathroom, with a single hallway running down the middle running between the master bedroom and bathroom on one end and another large bedroom on the other, which i later find out was the "nursery"
>im in one of the bedrooms with two of my friends, sitting in the bed opposite the doorway, which is actually two separate door frames right next to each other and separated by about a foot where a wall used to stand separating the bedroom into two smaller rooms
>MFW coming in cont'd

>>679927491
He means that we don't understand biology fully. We perceive things that reflect light, that does not include what you call 'I' inside your mind. IT doesn't describe your experience and why you have it.

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>>679920994
ill let you know if i have any cargo.

>>679919563
>>679920039
>>679920434
>>679921339
>>679922157
>>679922276
>>679923605
>>679923915
>>679924333
>>679924864
>>679925145
>>679925300
>>679925462

So many logical fallacies and just plain old retardation in this thread.

The fact is, if ghosts etc were there in the capacity that many people claim them to be, there would be some hard proof by now. Any attempted explanation as to why there isn't (they don't show up on cameras, they hide from cameras etc.) is just more logical fallacies.

There is literally 0 reliable evidence that ghosts exist and until there is some, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that don't.

>>679927604
Mi tía vive en Mataderos, Lomas del Mirador

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>>679920039
>human energy

>>679927508
ellos tenían un gato que murio de un tumor
Tenía un vídeo en mi antiguo teléfono en el que estaba viendo fijamente una silla, si acercabas el gato a la silla se ponía en su postura de defensa y hasta incluso se enojaba con lo que veía en esa silla.

>>679928115
What a close minded idiot. Your just a flesh bag man, all of the rest of us are infinitely more than what reflects light. You know nothing, so quit reducing yourself.

>>679927568
Thanks anon, i did my best trying to tell my scary moment

>>679928115
I'm this guy >>679925145

I was expressing a personal theory, not stating that ghosts exist (or that they're even likely). Chances are there are no ghosts (and I wouldn't argue with anyone who outright says there isn't). Its just a curious subject to me, and I think its more of an interesting social phenomenon than anything else.

>>679928466
What the fuck are you talking about.

I am not close minded in the slightest. I think it would be pretty fucking cool if ghosts existed but until there is any type of evidence or proof, I will not pretend to believe that they do.

>>679928115
Occam's razor.

>>679928115
thanks for the (You), but you didn't quote me here >>679925546
gimme a (You) there too

>>679928758
Ok, can't really argue with that. But your comment appeared to give far more credence to the topic than it deserves. There have been lots of ideas that have existed pretty much throughout all of human history, this has 0 bearing on their validity or truth.

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>>679928466
Baiting much? Been trolling lately a lot?

>>679928777
There is anecdotal evidence from every single isolated culture of human beings spread across the globe. And there is religion which dissuades your view.

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>>679927334

I make no claims about whether it could or couldn't reappear. Only that it doesn't go anywhere, and instead ceases to exist.

You mention the pattern existing without the material. I'm not sure a pattern can exist without a medium.

The particulars of a shape can be defined without an instance of that shape needing to be created in some medium. But is defining the specifics of a shape the same thing as saying that the shape exists?

If the pattern that makes me Me can be defined, does that mean that I exist independently of matter, or does an instance of me need to exist physically for it to be fair to say that the pattern which I am, exists?

I am of the mind that defining me is not enough, and that I must exist physically to really Exist in a meaningful way, but I'm no authority.

>>679929031
but again, because the phenomenon is not quantifiable or repeatable, then science won't touch it
and since he believes that the only way to reach the truth is through scientific method, then he's in his right to not believe in non-scientific stuff. being agnostic is ok

>>679929031

Data is not the plural of anecdote.

>>679929031
people like to make up stories when they have no other explanation about something

>>679923915
prolly a nigger stealing something.

>>679929154
>>You mention the pattern existing without the material
There is the problem. Patterns exist without a material in a realm that we do not see. They exist as ideas before they exist as material patterns, they exist as information, as possibility, before they are possible. just because you don't see a pattern or that it doesn't reporesent itself in a medium that reflects light, DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT CEASES TO EXIST.

>About 3-4 years ago I started renting out a little cottage/studio on the beach
>It was small and in a secluded area but I was happy there for awhile it was my first place needless to say I was excited to be living on my own
>about a month after moving in little things I didn’t notice at first started annoying me
>the light house light would constantly rotate and shine in my windows at certain points in the night illuminating my entire little house waking me up in a panic sometimes
>I put up black out curtains to block it out and kinda forgot about it
>another thing that started to get to me was this long drive back and forth to civilization as I thought of it at the time every single day.. it became treacherous in bad weather
>As time went on I started to feel lonely and sheltered
>no one came to visit me due to the distance and I started becoming depressed
>wake up, drive about a hour to work, drive home, drink, try to go to sleep

>>679929634
this is when it starts to become strange
>every night I started waking up exactly at 3:33 AM to my alarm clock blasting even though it was set to go off at 9:00AM
>It would scare the shit out of me and then it became annoying So I unplugged it after about the third night of it happening and set the alarm on my phone figuring it was faulty
>a couple of nights pass and then one night my phone alarm go’s off exactly at 3:33 am and wakes me up
>WTF
> I start to think my mind is playing tricks on me at this point I had been living there for about 4 months and the winter was stating set in the beach was pretty much abandoned
>I decided to buy a dog to keep me company
>I brought him home (it’s a blood hound)
>he seemed to be adapting okay
>one night maybe about a month after I got him he jumped out of bed (he was sleeping at the end of my bed) and woke me up
>he started walking around the entire apartment sniffing every corner howling
>I opened my door to let him out but he refused to go out I literally pushed him out onto the balcony
>he sniffed around the balcony and started clawing to come back in
>he then paced around the entire place for the rest of the night howling and sniffing every corner
>the next night the same thing
> I had about all i could take of sleepless nights and isolation so I moved not long after that

>>679929611
>Patterns exist without a material in a realm that we do not see

But is this this fact or philosophy?

I can see what your opinion is, and I can see that you hold your opinion very strongly, and see it to be something that is not only true, but self-evident.

But it is not self-evident to me. I question it, and want to know the reason why we can know for sure that a pattern can exist without a medium, an a realm that we do not see. I wonder whether perhaps we do not see it because it is not there.

>>679921576
Fuck you

>>679922103
But what happens to the thread? Does it deteriorate into nothing. Where does it go?

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>>679928373

Entonces consiguete varios gatos grandes y negros. Y no seas marica.

A mi me atacaron una noche de modo bien jodido, y me va bien ahora durmiendo con mi gata.

>>679930231
>Where does it go?

Deep web. but thats above you.

>>679930231
the thread is used somewhere else. but it's not the same pattern anymore. there's no reincarnation of the cloth

>>679930231
>It drives to your mothers house to give you a sister

>>679930413
Any links? I prefer cheese pizza

>>679920039
You're god damned retarded, you know that?

Humans are not energy. Humans use energy to create motion. Energy is the fuel, not the vehicle.

>>679930231

It becomes cloth again, with a new pattern.

Then the cloth unravels into thread again.

Then cloth.

Pattern.

Then thread.

Eventually, the last cloth unravels and the thread is not made into cloth again.

Then the thread stops being thread.

Then, eventually, the universe stops.

After that, nothing ever happens again.

Or not.

>>679929031
Anecdotes are completely irrelevant.

Also, I am an atheist for the same reason I don't believe in ghosts.

>>679930822
>Also, I am an atheist for the same reason I don't believe in ghosts.
because you're assburger?

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>>679927828
>so im sitting there talking about some bullshit with my friend who is sitting on a chair in the middle of the room, meaning as im looking at him the doorways are directly behind him
>as hes talking a child just walks past the doorway, disappears for a split second behind the wall divider, and then continues to pass through the second doorway heading down to the master bedroom
>no theatrics, nothing ghostly looking about him except that he was wearing a kind of weird looking night gown thing, no floating, not see through, but totally dead silent
>I fucking froze, mind blank, heart fucking pumping, literally could not make a sound
> the other guy I was with who also had a view of the doorway kinda yelped and sank way back into the couch like he was trying to make himself as small as possible
>I managed a what the fuck after a second and then all hell broke loose, the other two people we we're with came in from one of the other bedrooms when they heard us making weird fucking noises, I was freaking out a little and the other guy who saw it was seriously panicking, and neither of us could really tell anyone else what happened cause, at least to me, it sounded like a bad idea to say it out loud
>after a couple minutes we collected ourselves and told them what happened
>the girl who's family owned the house and who had been one of the two in the other room was infuriatingly casual about it
> she basically just said yeah, there area few ghosts in the house, pretty much everyone in the family who has spent a decent amount of time in the house has seen them once or twice over the years, and its cool that we had seen them cause it doesnt happen a lot and everyone who comes to visit thinks the stories are bullshit made up cause its a creepy old place
>some more details in part 3

>>679930139
First it is a simple fact of noticing that all things that are seen, come from an unseen place, (by seen I mean reflecting light (EM waves)). If you believe this place doesn't exist because you cant see it, that is close minded, or restrictive, there are plenty of things that exist which you cannot see, like your thoughts or the imagery in your mind, or radio waves. So, then the next step would be to not assume this place doesn't exist, but to try to not make absurd assumptions about this unseen place. In any case, either there is a pattern that uses the medium, or the medium that creates the pattern. Either way it really doesn't matter, and it is probably a hybrid of both, whether there is intelligence behind the pattern of woven thread, or whether there is an intelligent aspect to the thread that weaves a pattern... My opinion comes in at this point... I suggest that once a pattern has been woven, it is an object in itself, a unique object, and now that it exists, I think it stupid to believe it is forever stationary, or static, I believe THAT UNIQUE PATTERN will then begin to expand upon itself, and that nothing is static, ever, and that 'you' actually never exist in stasis.

What do you think

>>679930139
>>679929611
>>679929154
Bunch of fucking buddhist hippies, go kill yoursleves

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>>679917832
>be me
>be 14
>working on a highschool geography assignment, some BS about the arctic.
>need scissors. Look all over in the basement where i was working.
>cant find shit
>go to main floor where computer desk was.
>look all over cant find shit again
>start to look in kitchen, bedrooms, cant find shit.
>go back to main floor
>stand there while scratching head (not literally)
>have back towards desk I searched earlier.
>hear scraping noise, like a peice of a metal being dragged across a finished wood floor.
>Thud on the floor.
>turn around pair of scissors lie on the floor.

true story, I freaked out and played Bball till rents got home.
picnotrelated

>>679931588
>What do you think
i think i never imagined i'd find a platonist in this day and age. what the fuck

>>679917832
Real answer.

I grew up in a house on an old plot of land that my entire family and extended family told me about haunting stuff, involving ME. I was too young to remember most of it, however.

Two things: Most ghost related stuff CAN be explained. Things like sleep paralysis and such are often the reasonable reasons behind visions and things brinking on real and not real.

However, a lot else happened in that house that is hard to explain to a hard degree (things moving by themselves, handles clanking, etc.)

I personally am of the belief that the reason hauntings aren't well documented is a strong misunderstanding of WHY they happen. Most ghost studies tend to focus on an actual supernatural force, separate from anything else, happening in a location.

From what I've learned and researched, it seems more that the living persons involved are more to do with it. Think of a person as, say, a working computer. Say you have a hard drive sitting around (the soul of a dead person, or remnant of a dead person.) it does nothing on its own. but, the cables brush along the outputs of the computer, and it reads some information. I'm of the sense that this is what's happening. Or rather, hauntings are more to do with the LIVING force reacting to whatever remnant energy is there, than the actual energy/dead themselves.

If people focused more on studying those involved in a haunting, they'd likely have a bit more interested data.

>be me
>13
>live in old ass house with mum and siblings
>share room in attic with sister
>me and sis are super close at the time
>share sides of the bed
>shes got this pig teddy bear thing that oinks when you squeeze it
>shits fucking annoying
>like, ungodly annoying
>one night
>playing clue
>(colonel mustard in the kitchen with candle stick)
>go to bed
>put on the tele
>sleep
>middle of the night
>hear that god forsaken oinking
>roll over
>"stop squeezing that dang thing"
>"whatre you talking about"
>roll over
>pigs at the fucking end of the bed sitting upright
>pantshittingcommence.gif
>sis, did you put that shit there
>fucknonigga.jpg
>stare at it a while
>fucking oinks out of turn again for no reason
>fuuuuuuckno.jpeg
>"maybe it's just a malfunction, ill take the batteries out"
>go to take out batteries
>wheresthebatterypak.jpeg
>cant get access to battery pack without ripping it open
>sister loves piggly
>fuck
>cant rip it open
>leave it alone for the night
>oinks again at around 4:00 AM
>we go downstairs and sleep
>scared as fuck
>heard a bump later
>fuckdat.jpg
>fall asleep
>wake up, go check on piggy
>back at the end of the bed

Moar? This was when i first moved into this house, and this shit happend all the time before it burned down with no cause or explanation.

>>679921576
Fucking killing myself, I didnt see the .gif until too late

>>679931169
had a friend whos house use be a some old army barracks during the mexican american war and they would see soldiers in old uniforms occasionally. there i also an abandoned mental hospital in my home town that use to be one of the largest in the country, aparently patients were treated really badly and kept chained to the beds and one day a fire broke out and most of the patients burned to death and the building is all boarded up now, ive heard that people have seen some ghosts and odd occurrences in and around that building.

>>679931588

I think that you've independently conceived of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Forms

Which is cool.

I also think that you should go read up on it, and deeply consider both the evidence for it and criticisms against it.

At worst, you will find clearer ways of expressing your position. At best, you might find reasons to doubt it.

Beliefs are always more interesting to have when you believe them and doubt them at the same time.

>>679931996
More pls

>>679931929
Look... .use yourself as an example... everything you do physically, everything you create, must first come from your mind. All things in the physical 'human' world have started from a mental place. If you are created by the universe, 'you' must have first started in a mental space, that is to say the universe has a 'mind' as well, and unseen place where patterns exist before they are 'real', suggesting you existed nonphysically before you existed physically, so where does this nonphysical existence of yours go once your body decomposes? No nowhere....

No. They don't exist. Anyone that tells you they do is an idiot, liar, or both.

Ghosts are not real

>>679917832
I believe thay dew mayne. Here's me little encounter
12 years old, bro and I always stayed at our friends house on the weekend. He was half nig half jew. They had a huge tv in one of the downstairs rooms so we'd always hookup the dreamcast and play some unreal tournament. They had a huge picture of his dads great jew gramma up on the wall, next to a bed. Our friend amanda brought her new lil pupper over to show it off. She sat it on the bed, pupper starts growling at the jew poster. Thought it was starnge but at the same time didn't think anything of it
>she's jew
Pupper skreeches and goes flying off the bed as if someone smacked it.
>nigga we was runnin
Go back the next day and amanda comes in bawling her eyes out
>pupper is kill
That was my first of two encounters in that house

>>679921576
Meh, try harder

>>679932840

I don't think this is the convincing argument you believe it to be.

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>>679931169
>not much else to say about what i actually saw or the immediate aftermath because after that it was pretty much like, well fuck I guess that happened and now were just gonna keep doing what we were doing before
>she (family member) said the general consensus among the family members was that it wasnt a problem, it had scared the shit out of a few people over they years but after all everyone who had lived and died in the house was family so it was kind of nice in a way
>the specific story I had was pretty much the same as most of the others, people seeing them pass through the doorways from bedrooms, always going from the nursery to the master bedroom
>the nursery had originally been basically a big bedroom shared by all the kids when there were children in the house (big country family) and it is known that multiple children had died of various illnesses over they years, one other child had died somewhere on the property when they wandered outside of the house one night during the winter for unknown reasons, and many more adults had died in the house from illness/old age.
>the little boy I saw is described the same in every account, maybe 7-8, skinny, short brown hair, and the pajamas.
>Elsewhere in the house, mostly on the main floor but also in the woodshed/garage area, a lot of people have claimed to have seen a dark figure moving around and say things are frequently moved around.
>the nursery is now used for storage because it creeps people out
>a few days later a bunch of the family came up for the week and i talked to them about it
> no one had ever identified the boy, but they said people had been talking about seeing him for decades, the earliest example was a great aunt/grandmother/whatever who had talked about seeing him when she was a young woman visiting the house in the 1940s, the assumption is that he was one of the kids who died of disease in the late 1800s/early1900s
>it severely fucked with my head and my ability to relax for weeks

>>679924884
The worst thing ever happend to me in this house:
On vacations, when I was younger (11- 12 years old) I was going to stay in her house. One night I stayed to sleep in m cousin's bed room, I woke up in the middle of the night for going to the bathroom y I see my cousin sleeping in her own bed. I though "good, she came earlier from work" after going to the badroom I went to sleep.
I woke up hours later because someone turns the light of the bedroom, It was my cousin she were dressed with her purse (I know this is weird, but it's what it says) and I ask "today have to work in the moring?" and she anwser "No, I just arrived from work"
I'd never want to stay to sleep in that place since that day.

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>>679931996
>>679932751

Some moar for ya

>in house
>playing with this sword my uncle gave me outside
>rustyasfuck.jpg
>go inside and ask mom if theres any WD-40 so i can try and scrape off some rust
>in the basement
>the basement
>basement
>niggeryouputmyshitwhere.jpeg
>fuck
>basements scary as fuck
>old and musty
>weird double doors that make it look like some asylum shit
>okay
>face my fears and get shiny sword
>be a pussy and have shit sword
>adventuretime.jpeg
>go to basement with sword
>cool little woodworking bench down there
>set the sword on it
>start looking through various rooms that have cupboards
>hear a clang
>something fell
>notthisshitagain.webm
>go back to main room off of staris
>swords on the ground
>nope.gif
>gonna find the WD-40 and gtfo
>takes about 10 min of frantic searching, but i find it
>go to pick up sword
>notice the rug at the end of the stairs, floor sounds hollow
>fuckingserialkillerhideout.jpg
>lift up rug
>reveal little trap door
>take a looksee
>nothing special, just a bunch of dirt and such
>still looking when the lights cut out in the whole house
>ohhhhhhfucknonigga.gif
>grab the sword, the WD-40 and run like fuck
>soon as i close the door, lights come on
>re-evaluate living here

Moar?

>>679933947
All arguments that are convincing to you are entirely physical... involved with reflecting light, or interacting with the electromagnetic field. If something exists that does not do that, it does not exist to you.

>>679922157
>There are enough BTUs in the human body to run an air conditioner.
This doesn't even make sense. BTU is a unit of energy, and to run a device you need power, which is energy/time. Any amount of energy can run an air conditioner, just how long it will run will vary.

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>Once when I was in the fifth or sixth grade, I explored an old boathouse with a friend of mine. We had been told not to go into it because the previous summer a kid had fallen between the dock and one of the boats, hit his head while underwater, and drowned.

>My friend was using my dad's flashlight, which he borrowed and, if I remember correctly, never returned.

>I think that even came up in a fight we had years later. He was always borrowing things and not giving them back, to the point that you had to always be on your guard not to agree to lend him anything, even the most reasonable things that you would never think he would neglect to return.

>I remember he once took my dog for a walk and then later claimed it was his own dog of the same breed and with the same name.

>I had a ridiculous time getting my dog back, it was a whole ordeal that eventually got both of my parents and both of his parents involved.

>Anyway, always be careful in boat houses.

>>679921339
FYI your friend is developing schizophrenia

>>679934934

That's not true; I also appreciate mathematics.

But other than that, yes you've got me pegged.

>>679932840
> your mind

The 'mind" is nothing more than this nebulous
notion we've concocted to give a name to the complex
processes our brains go through when reacting to our environment.
As in, your mind is a product of your brain.

Thinking that your mind and brain are mutually
exclusive, and therefore the mind can somehow
exist without the brain, is as ignorant of basic science
and anatomy as it is just plain stupid.

The universe doesn't have a "mind". And the physical
objects we construct do not come from our minds, they
are constructs made of materials around us. Our "ideas" are
just concepts of different configurations of those materials.

Stop trying to make the 'mind' a magical, meta-physical thing.
Your world view will make more sense to you when you do.

someone dump creepy stories pls

>>679935376
3spooky5me

>>679917832
> Do ghosts really exist.

I can't say with absolute certainty (which is a useless concept
in and of itself), but no. They do not.

Why? Because the very concept goes against everything we understand
about science, physics, and our universe. And I don't mean "we just
don't understand it yet", I mean for them to exist would necessitate almost
everything we KNOW is true of physics to be just wrong.

Ghosts are described as these free moving "auras" of energy. They are
entities that react, feel, think, and can act upon the physical space
(yet can't be acted upon, apparently). This makes absolutely no sense. Energy fields
don't have intelligence. Energy fields can't act upon their environment without
being reacted to. And, most of all, energy fields can't maintain coherence
without dissipating or having some external force or source helping
them to maintain that coherence.

If ghosts existed, we'd be able to detect. Even BEFORE the person dies. We'd
be able to measure them, physically, from within each of us.

They don't exist, pure and simple. This is not to say people haven't experienced
things they can't explain, but I can all but guarantee the real explanation isn't "ghosts".

>>679936987
Shut up

>>679935791

I am this guy >>679922103

and agree with you completely.

But look at his post. Do you think he is ready to receive the concepts in yours? They will just bounce off him. He first needs to be made to examine the beliefs he holds now, until he can no longer ignore that, as fond of them as he is, and as beautiful as they are, something is not right about them.

It's frustrating, and it's aggravating. He's SO SURE he's right, and it feels so good to tell him he isn't. But telling him he's wrong doesn't change his mind, and in the end, our real goal is to change his mind. Only HIM telling himself that he's wrong will change his mind, and he will only tell himself he's wrong after examining his beliefs for a long time, and even then, there's no certainty he ever will.

Anyway, all that's out of our control. What's in out control is that we can encourage him to examine his beliefs more closely. We can ask questions that he cannot answer without examining his position, and when he examines it enough times, very small doubts will eventually form.

Don't call him stupid. Don't call him ignorant. Encourage him to examine his own beliefs. And that will be enough.

>>679935791
no no no no no

What we know of or think of as the mind... is purely composed of by the things we have seen (that reflect light) and the structure of those things. When in fact you are imbedded in this universe, you have the mind, and there is no answer to WHY your eye was created to perceive this universe... in some way your overlooking that, and directly connecting the 'mind' to what 'you' can perceive... i.e the physical substance. Just because there is a physical complex pattern that we see, with a type of logic to its physicality, does not mean that there isn't more to the concept of the mind or to its actuality potentially being simply more than the physical reality. To assume less is limiting.

>>679936987
alot of times ghosts don't seem sentient they just seem to be on a Loop of what they were doing before death.

>>679936987
>>679936987
That's the same thing people said about quantum particles and atoms back in the days they thought the elements were fire, water, wood and air. We know more than we did back then but we still aren't even close to knowing everything.

>>679936987
>lack of evidence is not evidence
Wow, when did this logical fallacy become untrue?

>>679934158
thats actually terrifying

>>679930231
>But what happens to the thread?
Pruned or deleted

>>679937374
This is a good point. But there are also poltergeists

>>679937880

kek

>>679936987
Although I agree, this is bad science. Lack of evidence doesn't mean it's impossible. We don't know everything.

>>679937304
I wasn't calling him stupid, I was calling the IDEA
stupid.

And it is. Stupid ideas can come from the most
intelligent people. Brilliant ideas can come from
the most ignorant people.

I wasn't attacking his character, I was attacking the idea.

Still, you make a fair point. And truthfully, I always
try to convince people to question their beliefs, even
myself. What's the point of holding to ones beliefs
if you're unwilling to challenge them in search of
the truth?

>>679937348
But if there IS more, then we should be able to measure it.
If we can't, and if we can't even perceive
of how it seemingly interacts with our universe, then
the only alternatives are that it either doesn't exist, or it
exists and doesn't affect us. Either way,
the mind, from our perspective, is nothing but
a product of the brain.

Claiming anything else, without evidence, is
just blind assumptions.

>>679937374
Which still implies some kind of coherent form of
energy that's enacting a force upon its environment.
Something that can not happen without an external
force or source enabling it to do so, and not without
us being able to measure and act upon it.

I'm not saying there aren't unexplained phenomenon
in the world. I'm only saying "ghosts" aren't the explanation.

>>679939013
>says the guy blindly assuming ghosts don't exist because there is no evidence that they do
Science doesn't work that way. You can only claim ghosts don't exist when you find evidence that they don't, not when you can't find evidence that they do.

>>679937535
Of course there are unknowns in the universe. But
the existence of the unknown does NOT give credence
to the idea of ghosts. It only means there are things
we don't understand. Claiming those unknowns are
a specific 'thing' is just as ludicrous as claiming
that we know everything.

>>679939388

I don't think science works the way you think it works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof#Proving_a_negative

The burden of proof for ghosts falls upon the person claiming they exist.

>>679938017
maybe there is some unseen emotional imprint that is left that can react with people and objects. sixth senses are also interesting, do you know that in the DOD recommends to not stare at an enemy sentry when your stalking them because they may sense you through a sixth sense.

>>679937731
And a lack of evidence isn't proof of existence.
It's saying, "I can't explain, therefore it was ghosts."

It's asinine. When you start with "I don't
know.", that's where you stop. Adding anything
else is just assumptions and hearsay.

>>679939388
Ok, I propose that your mom gets buttfucked in her sleep by invisible niggers from space every night who are careful to leave no evidence. You can't prove it doesn't happen!

>>679939805
>burden of proof
You're making the claim that ghosts don't exist here>>679936987.

>>679920948
TopFuckingKek

>>679939917
That is unlikely in the extreme, but it may be true. That's the difference between guaranteeing that something isn't true and acknowledging that it may be true but is however incredibly unlikely.

>>679939966

That's not me.

I would never claim that ghosts don't exist, as I've never heard anyone claim that ghosts do exist and then back up that claim with proof.

>>679938026
Never said we did. But what we DO know
tells us that ghosts can not exist as they are
often viewed. Unless we are to assume that
they are somehow exempt from all known laws
of physics.

>>679917832
Ive experienced a lot of weird shit.

Most of it has been during times of extreme stress or chronic sleep deprivation.

But my family has a history of seeing and communicating with ghosts.

I have crazier more interactive stories than this, but Ill lay one on you.

>Great grandmother legendary for communicating with dead.
>Her brother came and sat beside her in a park bench in England one day. He was supposed to be in Germany. She was surprised! "Oh its you she said!"
>He looked at her with a dull expression, stood up and left.
>He was reported KIA an hour earlier overseas.
>She had this watch.
>It stopped ticking the moment she died.
>Grandmother inherited. No watchsmith could find a problem.
>Passed on to mother. Still did not tick.
>I visit sister in her university town. Watch was given to me to pass on to my sister.
>My excited sister immediately puts watch on as soon as she gets it.
>watch immediately started ticking. we both shat ourselves.
>Mfw when my sister wrote stories of a child about the ghosts she saw in the house.
>mfw sister still talks about meeting spirits and seeing things.
>I cant help but feel like she is a reincarnation of great gramma.

I have more.

>>679939909
I never said that ghosts did exist, only that discounting them as a possible explanation for paranormal phenomena because it falls outside of conventional logic is stupid.

>>679939013
I agree in with you in certain ways.

But I am only making the point that, yes, your mind is a product of the brain, and the brain is a product of your body, and your body is a product of this place we are in, this universe. And in that emergence, there is something that is not 'measurable' which is the 'mind' or 'experience', you wont find any way to measure a thought. There wont be any evidence. But there is something unexplainable at the very least. And in that unexplainable aspect of experience you can assume infinity, or assume it amounts to nothing.

But the physical evidence of the mind, or the structure of the brain... will never explain what experience is truly.

>>679940153
Things can only be known to a degree of certainty.

>>679939638
And saying that ghosts don't exist because they are unlikely to doesn't mean that they don't exist. You cannot claim to understand that ghosts do exist until you find definitive evidence that they do not by finding explanations for all paranormal phenomena that work within conventional logic.

>>679921576
Mother... didn't see .gif

THE AMOUNT OF AUTISM IN THIS THREAD IS ASTONISHING

>>679940352
>Be me 5 years ago.
>Paranoid a thing follows me.
>I move a lot. Traveled the country and all. When I move I am "not haunted" for months.
>Everytime there is a dream. I wake up, but I am paralyzed (Psychology fags, I know about hypnogagia).
>I cannot open my eyes or move. I hear a thing enter my room and walk through apartment to my bed.
>hear it breathing. It leaves.
>Nothing but nightmares until I move. It is silent for months after.
>4 years ago. I live in a house in Edmonton with roommates.
>It returns. Another girl in house reports feeling uneasy like somethings there.
>Whole nightmare thing happens.
>I move.
>The day I move, girl texts me "Its mad you left".
>even skeptical roommate reports morning I left, bed shook, and kitchen table heard being dragged across the dining room downstairs.
>Never saw this particular one again.

Theres more.