Yeah but he's a cuck.
Also, doubling the minimum wage is retarded and will exclude more people from the workforce by decreasing demand for labor. Most businesses are small businesses.

>>678283718
Only reason to vote for him is due to all the other shit candidates.
Would vote libertarian but voting 3rd party is worthless with the broken two party system.

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>>678283718

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>>678284749

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>>678284813

>>678283718
yep, best candidate we've had in decades. sit back and watch the clinton machine and the msm heads explode as he keeps winning.

>>678284582
This argument is moronic and long exploded.

If that is the case why not reinstate slavery? We'd have 100% employment!

>>678285049
Because no one will work for free but they will work for less than minimal wage.

ITT: Leeches disguising freeloading with a bunch of derogatory terms and pseudo economics.

Later, ITST: Stupid rednecks doing the exact same thing.

Vote clinton or die, you American scum.

>>678285212
it's slavery dumb fuck as in forced labor

>>678285049
That a great idea.
Give those lazy niggers something to do.

>>678285049
Because unlike you fascists we believe in the free market and voluntary transactions between two consenting parties.

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>>678285391

>>678285472
banning slavery is free market in which sense?

>>678283718
Calm down m8, OR hasn't had its caucus yet.

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>>678285592
>being this stupid

>>678285530
This. It's pretty gross how much the media is trying to sell her as having already won the election.

>>678283718
Over four years, Bernie's tax plan will cost me about 20K more than the current tax rate. I eventually want to go back to school to get a master's degree which will cost around 20k for two years tuition. If Bernie gets elected I wont be able to afford it. But hey, at least my girlfriends kid will be able to go to college, pass with a solid 2.0 GPA, and then get a shitty $15/hour job flipping burgers at McDonald's.

>>678285769
you didn't answer. why it is free market to buy work for any amount but not to buy workers?

>>678285530
Non of those constitute a reason why anyone should vote Trump or Sanders. Idgaf about Benghazi or her being or not being named after Edmund Hillary, I wouldn't give my vote to those two maniacs. Obamasys is just fine right now.

>>678285769
no, he's right. banning slavery is a regulation imposed on the market. "Free market" extremists just assume the regulations they like are ok or don't exist. Only the ones they don't like are bad.

>>678286000
if you vote trump, you:
1. vote similar scumbag
2. in fact vote clinton because trump cannot possibly beat her

>>678285049
Do you seriously think there weren't tons of unemployed white people when the top land owners in the south were using free black labor?
I say "let's not double the minimum wage" and you come at me with this bullshit. You should be embarrassed. Address what I'm actually saying or shut the fuck up. Low skill jobs will and should obviously not pay as much as skilled jobs. Raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour puts fast food workers on the same level as electricians. If you learn a trade or specialize your knowledge, you can make more money.

>>678285212
>Because no one will work for free
>slavery never existed
>all the white guilt is gone at once
Thank you, anon. Now I can live my life.

>>678283718
It's pretty obvious that the media and the powers that be are desperate to discredit Bernie. They are scared of what he represents: a movement of people who have opened their eyes. People who are rational and informed and who know does and does not truly have their best interest at heart. This frightens them more than anything because they know that their usual decoy tactics will not work. They would rather you argue about guns, gays, abortion, Mexicans, and Iranians while they install their pro-private-healthcare pharmaceutical and climate-change-denying petroleum shills at every level. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain.

>>678286000
>Idgaf about Benghazi
This. I dislike Clinton, but I don't understand this whole shitstorm. Did she bomb that embassy?

>>678285945
>>678286058

So? As if anyone is saying the free market shouldn't be regulated in some ways. I don't think children should work either, because they can't give consent. And slavery goes against the principle of voluntary transactions.

Are you seriously that stupid? I suggest you put Das Kapital down and start reading some J.S. Mills or Adam Smith.

Going by your logic, why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $1000/hour? Why stop at $15/hour?

Sanders 2016
Feel The Bern.

>>678286287
It cost money to house those niggers.

>>678283718
>I like weed XDDD: the candidate
Not that it's all not rigged anyway, but I'm gonna vote for the guy who cares about actual issues affecting the world, not making everything """""""free""""""""" for the lowest common denominators who won't help themselves.

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>>678286287
Today, 150 years after the white man abolished slavery in his country, there are more slaves in Africa than in any given time in America. White guilt my asshole.

>>678286000
Trump has the best tax plan if you are lower/middle class. If you make 200K up, Cruz has a better plan. I never understand all of the mental masturbation that goes on during election season. The only interaction I have with the federal government is paying my taxes, so logically I will vote for whoever will tax me less.

>>678285049
Here are some facts about slavery and it's effect on the job market of non-slaves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_White
"The character and condition of the Poor White is rooted in the institution of slavery. Rather than provide wealth as it had for the Southern elite, in stark contrast, slavery considerably hindered progress of whites who did not own slaves by exerting a crowding-out effect eliminating free labor in the region."
"The Poor White survived by small-scale subsistence agriculture,[7] hunter-gatherering,[7] charity,[23] fishing,[7] bartering with slaves[7][24] and seeking what employment they could find.[7] Some found jobs in cotton mills and factories,[14] a process made easier by the fact that many slaveowners refused to use slaves for skilled labor because doing so would both increase owners' dependence on specific slaves and increase the likelihood that those slaves would run away in pursuit of self-employment elsewhere."

>>678286199
Still clinton is your less harmful choice. It will be 8 more years of obama and that's about it. If sanderfags want to go to college for free then they will also have to face a fierce competence for jobs, and when that happens, they will blame it on Wall st. and business owners instead of a massive offer of qualified jobseekers...

>>678286633
trump has a tax plan? which one? everytime he's asked, he says something completely different

>>678285049
Yikes, someone never went to college...

>>678286730
>If sanderfags want to go to college for free
College is already free if you're not a dipshit.

>>678286287
>white guilt
exactly what do i have to be guilty for?
i never owned slaves
i never opressed a minority
i grew up poor and put myself through college
go back to tumblr you self hating piece of shit

>>678286356
He's wildly ignorant and so are his followers. His relative success represents the total failure of American education and historical and civic awareness.

He had a newspaper interview recently. It was devastating. He knew nothing.

>"Subway tokens in NY"
Haven't been any in 13 years.

>"Prosecute Wall Street!"
For what crimes?
>"uh... I don't know."
Really?
>"I'll hire a specialist."
Like Donald Trump?

Absurd. He's a commie loving lunatic, completely ignorant of how society works. He's the apotheosis of idiotic college stoners.

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>>678286768
I never went to college. I'm the one he's responding to.

>>678286499

agreed. voluntary slavery is called employment, and it's the only thing we have at this stage of our shitty evolution. trying to force things to be otherwise with a top down approach will only make matters worse. understand it now, or understand it later.

>>678286814
This

I passed out literature for nearly a week every day before the IL primary. I got the whole "I'm not voting for no commie" more than once. When it comes down to it, there is only one person running who really gives a fuck about the working class people of this country. Bernie is the only pro Union candidate even though Shillary is getting support for from laborer bosses, us members are pulling for him. I wanna be able to take my son to a Union meeting one day like my dad took me and him see our old charter on the wall written in 1919, and be like damn, a system that works for the working class

>>678286730
No one is electing the dictator of America here. Unless congress approves the budget nothing will happen whether it's Bernie's reforms or Trump's wall. They can't do jack shit without it being funded.

People give the POTUS too much credit for building/ruining the country. Most of the fuckery is done on capitol hill.

>>678283718
>caring who you vote for
it's all the same anon

>>678286425
No, the embassy was overrun and faggots thatbscteam "Benghazi!" Have no idea what happened that day. They were counting on Clinton going with a SEAL team herself and rescue everyone in 2h. Seriously, fuck trump and Sanders supporters, they are the scum of earth.

>>678286425
Same. And what's this flak for saying at first it was because of the video riots? I have NEVER understood this and nobody will listen when I explain it to them.

I remember that time very well. The Mid-East and parts of Europe had a week long shitstorm because of a home made video that pissed the Muslims off. In the midst of this shitstorm the embassy is attacked. MY first response was "wow they really didn't like that video in Libya"

EVERYONE thought it was the video at first. It made complete sense. We find out later it wasn't and suddenly we've been lied to. BS she jumped to the same conclusion we all did though some now claim they never thought it was the video.

It's as if someone ran up and down a street with gasoline setting houses on fire. Suddenly a house next to them catches fire as well. What would you conclude happened?

And then a week later when it's revealed that particular home owner had left the stove on it's a huge conspiracy cover-up.

>>678286743
Just going by this site:

>https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform

>>678286814
Yeah anon but not everyone can have a grant. That is what Bernie suggests.

>>678286499
>Going by your logic, why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $1000/hour? Why stop at $15/hour?

That's like saying if aspirin works, why don't you eat 10 bottles of it? Derp.

Wage changes necessitate other adjustments in the economy. Minor changes can be absorbed easily and do some good. Enormous ones can create chaos.

>>678286425
The State Department issued a stand down order to American forces reacting to the attack. The firefight there? Those were State Dep. security (incl. CIA) guys who said, "fuck that" and went anyway.

An African Command general had the same reaction and ordered special forces to intervene. He was fired, relieved from command on the spot by Washington, and the military did nothing.

Important note: standing military policy for a gundred fucking years is to "move to the sound of the guns and rescue Americans in distress."

The Obama administration ORDERED its people to let those embassy personnel die. Then they lied about it (Youtube videos!) and covered it up. Clinton did so personally, to the families of the deceased.

After months and months of ignoring warnings of attacks on the embassy AND denying requests for increased security.

If you can't find something objectionable in there, then you're a contemptible piece of shit.

>>678285049
cuck is defending his fellow cuck

top kek

Yeah as if you fat fucks would ever elect the sensible choice.

I think the united states (also the rest of the developed world) really needs democratic socialism, not because I need it myself (I'm quite comfortable) or because I'm an SJW (Fuck feminism and whiteknights). We need it because unemployment isn't a bad thing and work is overrated. Think about it, how is work seen as something positive? It used to be a neccesity for our species to survive. Everybody had to work hard so we could all be fed and kept save. Nowadays this isn't the case anymore. We have better technology, better machines and better infrastructure. There is more than enough for everyone, the problem is it's not distributed evenly because our system is still based on the notion that everybody needs to work for a living.

I say, replace every possible job with a machine and outsource as much as you can to third world countries. Half our jobs could already be done by machines or outsourced to india. If you have a well developed social state, it shouldn't be a problem to give everyone a comfortable life without the need to work. Of course you COULD still work and have a carreer, I'd want that too, but just to be able to afford some luxuries, not to SURVIVE. Are we in the fucking stone age or what?

This is literally the problem. You faggots instantly talk about shit that does not matter man. People in America need fucking jobs. Trump isn't going to bring back a single one. He's gonna make deals n this bullshit n that bullshit n right to work here n right to work there. We need a strong working class that gives a fuck about their co worker, classic Union, to better the class as a whole

>>678286868
Wall Street should have been prosecuted decades ago and for the same reasons as now. The boom and bust cycle of economic depressions is directly the result of their out of control speculation yet it's always those at the bottom who take the brunt of these disasters. Jail is too kind of a place for these people. They deserve the gallows.

>>678285907
If bernie sanders is in office the 20k youll be paying extra will be going to your government supplied insurance and college tuition. If all goes as it should. You'll have less money but also less expenses.

>>678286868
>"He's the apotheosis of college stoners"
Kek anon, you made my day.

Feel the Bern of your stomach for the great leader in the Democratic People's Republic of America.

>>678287403
>sensible choice.
Lol.

I remember when ignorant faggots all said Obama was the "sensible choice." Where'd that get you?

>>678287441
Envy. Resentment. Daddy issues.

>>678284860
I do agree that the liberals condescend awful hard but you do have to give them some credit. It's pretty fucking awful that people can't see the signs right in front of their own faces. Especially when the people that are mostly interested in voting for him are older. They should know better.

The reason why is that he wants to force all Muslims to wear IDs, similar to how Hitler forced all Jews to wear IDs. He also wants to corral them up into internment camps, much like how Hitler and the US did to the Jews and Japanese, respectively. A huge amount of people died because people believed Hitler was going to make Germany great again.

Inb4 >>>/pol/

You asked, so I'm telling you why Trump has some similarities to Hitler. Those aren't the only similarities but those are the most obvious and popular reasons.

But yes, I must agree. Hitler has been over used by the Liberals and it needs to stop. Not fucking everyone is like Hitler. Trump, however, has been working rather hard to appear as if he's taken more than a few pointers from the man.

>>678287474
What if I decide to spend my money however the fuck I want to instead of paying for your women's studies master?

>>678287362
>The State Department issued a stand down order...

No, it didn't. This is a myth that was debunked repeatedly in the endless series hearings they had on this.

The Benghazi "scandal" is a right wing fever dream. They could/should have had better security and that was about the extent of it.

The actual scandal is them constantly fucking around in places like Libya and Syria to make those places chaos and topple regimes. Without all that shit, no Benghazi.

>>678287418
Oh Christ this isn't socialism.

I don't know where to begin telling you how wrong your perfect state is, but I'm pretty sure your idea to outsource all work to third world countries so we can sit on our arses and do nothing, is tantamount to slavery.

>>678286425
>Did she bomb that embassy?
implying you would like her any less?
if you even had to ask then you seriously dont care, just like the other anons.

No shit tho, I would vote trump over Shillary. But if it comes down to it, fuck the DNC and their rigging ass shit. They don't play this election fair.. 80% of the kid vote will be writing in BERNIE SANDERS


>biggest spoil in history

>>678287788
yeah, outsourcing is capitalism at its finest. cutting costs and finding the cheapest work

>>678285472
So you oppose any minimum wage, then?

>>678283718
Minimum wage should be abolished.
Social system should be abolished.
Keynesians don't predict shit, they couldn't even predict 2008 crisis while Austrians did.
Most women are stupid.
He was unemployed for 40 years.
He has little support.

>>678285472
Two consenting parties? You mean like how wal-mart lowers their prices all the time and you go there because it's the cheapest place around?

Or how they just say they lower the prices, while in actuality, are raising them steadily, but you stupidly didn't notice because you can't be arsed to pay attention to how much you spend?

I'm sure you're consenting in both situations but in one of them, you're an ignorant cuck getting played for a fool. The other, you just think that you aren't.

Nice partnership.

>>678287362
Nice try anon. Now please can you name the anerican unit involved, the orders, the location, the "African general" and his unit and the location where the clash took place?

>>678288197
Black people that think they're speaking out against oppression versus black people faking it til they make it as whites. Nice.

>>678287562
Misanthrope. Sociopath. No sense of responsibility.

Must be pretty nice to not once be held accountable for your actions, no matter how disastrous.

>>678288141
so much this

>>678287745
People like you are the reason why our country is going to shit. This "me first" attitude that other, more mature countries have been able to grow past. Were at the bottom of the list in education and we're losing economic ground quickly. We need to change our attitude and start working together, rather than all of us trying to grab as much as we can.

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>>678288197
up) chimps wild.
down) chimps domestic.

>>678287952
I'm still wondering when America chose outsourcing over democracy.

Since when did Capitalism > Democracy? Seriously. How did the devil trick people into rooting for him?

>>678284582
You do realize that inflation is a thing and that doubling the minimum wage will bring its value back to what it was when it was first being introduced right? Didn't stop employers from hiring back then, it won't now.

>>678288368
Like when you decide to get yourself in a sea of debt and call Bernie to wipe your ass?

Fuck off.

Muh media spin. Every candidate claims the media fucks them over, Sanders supporters are just retarded. Sanders is losing because he is weak and has unrealistic promises. Doubling the minimum wage would put people out of work, not expand the work force. Companies already jew out of fair wages by hiring illegals, Sanders would literally just exacerbate the problem.

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>>678286622
>WE BUILT AMERICA IT SHOULD BE OURS

>>678288558
Keep sniffing Rupert Murdoch's ass, if you get in there a little closer you might find a penny.

>>678288474
Sorry anon, but it's my money, I worked for it, therefore I decide how to spend it. Fuck you and your commie shit.

>>678283718
>fact
>Hawaii and Washington
Wtf is that supposed to mean?

>>678288524
since the americans no longer fear communism (btw. they never really fought for democracy, they most often established right-wing dictatorships to combat communists). american foreign policy was always run by fear and money before anything else

>>678288723
>commie shit

How can you try to talk about the issue if you don't even understand what the words mean ? This is exactly why we need to fix our education system.

You might get what you want, but you're fucking over the next generations. Maybe your grandkids will be happy that you got what you wanted.

>>678288750
Those are two of the more mixed states. Hawaii is, in fact, the least white state.

>>678287615
Hitler was a great leader though and brought back Germany from the brink of collapse. Granted it all fell apart again when they lost the war but for a good 10 years before that Germany were doing much better than anyone could have ever expected. I'm pretty sure Trump would have the same effect (but through a different route) where it will have a short term positive effect and then a collapse that will leave the US in the gutter for 20+ years.

>>678287314
So, raising the minimum wage is a

>Minor changes can be absorbed easily and do some good.

You are not a business owner, huh? You never read a economics book?

How about we lower the minimum wage, because

>Minor changes can be absorbed easily and do some good.

>>678283718
you are correct OP. are you a wizard?

Also its Hillary's home turf because she was a senator there you dumb nigger. If Sanders is such a good politician, why didn't he run in his homestate instead of "whiter than an albino's ass" Vermont?

>>678288910
the problem is how hitler did that. if you research that, you will figure out that first it was paid by confiscation of non-aryan (mostly jewish) property and later by huge debt that made the war inevitable

>>678288474
>>678288902
> working together
> working to make someone else pay up
> community effort, to make stealing legal
simplified. could i have typed it better?

>>678283718
>2016
>voting for a meme
hows school going OP, you shouldn't skip classes to shitpost on /b/

sage btw

>>678289035
Just venturing a guess but he probably wanted to distance himself as much as possible from the corruption that is wall street. Hillary is so far up their asses she can see teeth.

> Raise minimum wage to $15 an hour
> Employers must change their current business practices to compensate for this money hemorrhage
> Employers must reduce overhead and/or raise prices
> Layoffs and higher prices for goods and services
> $15 an hour is the new $8.75 an hour

How is this better?

>50% of women support him

How exactly is that a good thing? Don´t get me wrong but women act more on their feelings than on facts.

>>678288694
Rupert Murdoch has not done anything to me, yet I don't smell his ass, unlike you with Bernievich. I like to work to pay for my own stuff, if I can't afford something, then I don't buy it. And right now I am starting my own business with the few bucks I have, I am hoping it will be good. Why change all my dreams and hopes and hard work for some freeloading spree? I want to be there where the big men are, I don't hate the big men. And if others have gone big after being little as I am now, why shouldn't I be big too?

Your failed and stupid idea of "hate the rich because they are rich" is for the losers like you.

>>678288911
the modern minimum wage is lower than the adjusted for inflation minimum wage of the past, and a higher % of workers make minimum wage than in the past.

[spoiler]The real problem is that most unionized industries, with the exception of long standing hard labor unions, work in tandem with the employer rather than for their members best benefit[/spoiler]

>>678289099
>could i have typed it better?
edit: > working to make EVERYONE else pay up

its a group effort after all

>>678289099
Yes, but you would have to have a basic understanding of economics to do so.

You do understand that we already pay taxes, right? Your oversimplification doesn't seem to account for that.

>>678289322
thats not how any of this works.

>>678288902
I do know what I meant. I am a free citizen entitled to enjoy and administrate my wages in the way I consider pertinent, regardless how high or low they are, and nobody should give ne morals about it. Got it?

>>678289322
The industries and employers that most would be affected by the change are those that can absorb the lose, and still turn a significant profit every year.

I admit though, a small portion of new business which would have had negligible profit will fail where they may not have before.

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I reckon you should all vote for Bernie. far left, liberal, limp-wristism is better than a woman running your country.

>>678283718
Minimum wage should be abolished.
Social system should be abolished.
Keynesians don't predict shit, they couldn't even predict 2008 crisis while Austrians did.
Most women are stupid.
He was unemployed for 40 years.
He has little support.

Minimum wage should be abolished.
Social system should be abolished.
Keynesians don't predict shit, they couldn't even predict 2008 crisis while Austrians did.
Most women are stupid.
He was unemployed for 40 years.
He has little support.

Minimum wage should be abolished.
Social system should be abolished.
Keynesians don't predict shit, they couldn't even predict 2008 crisis while Austrians did.
Most women are stupid.
He was unemployed for 40 years.
He has little support.

$15 /hour.
businesses buy robots for $0/hour.
literally entire workforce is cuck'd by Sanders

>>678289481
Yes. Yes, it is.

>>678289562
Kek. Okay, Mr. Free Citizen.

Kind of proving the point about our crappy (and worsening) education system though. If you ever have kids, look them in the eyes and tell them that your greedy ass is fucking their generation. It really doesn't take a genius to see how badly we've been fucked by our past administrations.

>>678289629
Tell that to the ukranians back in the 1930's.

>>678289766
Weird how that didn't happen anywhere else in the world.

>>678289775
No, no it isn't.

>>678289766
closer to $4 operating cost per hour, but seriously lower than $15 lazy fuck

>>678289827
mcdonalds already rolling out ordering machines to replace cashiers

>>678283718
>2016
>being this much of a cuck

>>678289766
1. robots are not hired for free, you know
2. if robots are cheaper on a job, it's better to have robots do it. that's how industrial revolution started in the first place

>>678289481
Yes, it literally is.

>>678289915
That's natural progression, and was started even before this debate. You're confusing correlation with causation.

>>678285472
why are you afraid of unions then?

>>678289915
Every grocery store everywhere has been trying that, the tech isn't anywhere near stable enough.

>>678288911
You know there are studies on the effects of minimum wage increases, of which there have been many, right? Usually there is no detectable effect on employment.

And we don't lower the minimum wage because that would do harm. The point of raising it is to lift the incomes of those in lower income brackets and reduce inequality. Lowering the minimum wage has the opposite effects. And the min wage needs to be raised periodically just to maintain its value, let alone have more positive effects. The current min wage has not even kept up with inflation and is much lower than it was in decades past.

>>678289915
so what? your car is 90% robot-made, start doing something about that, buy a hand-made wagon

>>678285472

>actually believing the free market exists

please, the only successful areas of the american economy are state subsidised - farming, pharma, arms.

china's booming growth is a result of a literalt fascist economy, in system if not name.

free market doesnt exist. it just sounds good to americucks who love hearing how free they are

>>678289932
But some people would rather hold back progress for their political agenda. These are the people that would protest against the cotton gin because of it's impact to slavery.

>>678289778
>Trying to form a future for himself and his children.
>"Greedy".

That's why you must not get to power. Nope, I'm not greedy. I am fair. I work, then I receive a salary, so I can start my business, which will pay for my kid's ed. Why is so hard for you to understand something that simple? I already pay taxes, don't need more.

>>678289818

>Survival was a moral as well as a physical struggle. A woman doctor wrote to a friend in June 1933 that she had not yet become a cannibal, but was "not sure that I shall not be one by the time my letter reaches you." The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died. Those who refused to kill their fellow man died. Parents who resisted cannibalism died before their children did

Sounds like maggie's perfect britain.

>>678289481
It totally does, money isnt growing on trees.

Look at journalism, with the social platforms. on the internet. as competition, many media outlets changed from print to digital.

They lay off all 90% of their employees, because they are to expensive. Increasing the price for their print media doesnt work, because the can find the same informations for free on the internet.

If you increase the minimum wage, then someone has to pay for it. -> increase the price of your goods or fire some personal

>>678288474
Isnt it funny that the PUBLIC schools are bad but the private schools simply have better education. Government run schools suck

>>678286287
Slavery isn't economically viable for a long time

The reason slavery ended was not because people suddenly became morally conscious, but because keeping slaves and having to feed them and look after them, even in the dismal conditions they were in, costs more than hiring workers and letting them look after themselves

>>678289365
The are already freeloading on our tax money you absolute sheep. And most of it goes to big oil and pharma who need least of anyone while people like you are determined to never fund a cent towards education so that everyone else can stay as sister fuckingly retarded as you.

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>>678289451
>Yes, but you would have to have a basic understanding of economics to do so.
omg i kek'd hard

are you implying that it isnt that hard for hippies and niggers to wriggle their way into politics making legal thievery even easier?

im sorry but if you think it takes basic understanding of economics to figure out how to create more worthless race or gender supporting scholarships and degrees you are right on the money.
here is a nice meme to go with your green shit, maang

>>678290003
Lol. This minimum wage/living wage debate is more than 80 years old in the US. Only the number changes.

>>678290169
Lack of demand for a product results in fewer sales, who would have figured that? Meanwhile, profitable ventures which become slightly less profitable by paying a new, higher, minimum wage stay in business as long as their product is in demand.

>>678290133

You're still talking about "me and mine. Fuck everyone else."

Don't get me wrong, I want to provide for my family as well. And I do, and I will continue to. But you're the one creating a false dichotomy where you can EITHER improve the country or support your family. That's not the only choice here.

How well off will your grandkids be when the us economy crashes? When we lose our place in the world arena? You're being shortsighted here

>>678290208
sure, that's why there was a huge war about it. the southern states wanted to abolish uneconomical slavery while the northern states tried to force them to pay. good that south won, right?

I gotta get to bed, but I won't see this and not post.

He's a fucking moron, doesn't know economics, and anyone in ANY other part of the world that has adopted socialism will tell you it's a terrible fucking idea.
Except hardcore fanboys, of which there are not nearly as many as there are opponents.

You're a dumbass, OP

>>678289615
Ruining small business,industrie,employer is fine, because the big bad old industrie will survive.

Bernie supports the wall-street! TO BIG TO FALL!

>>678290276
Generally, "the numbers" are an important factor regarding economics.

>>678289778
I hate to be that guy from /pol/, but if we got rid of the blacks, America's public education system would be on par with rest of the first world. Not to mention the obesity rates, life expectancy, heath care costs, etc. etc.

>>678290181
Exactly. They're underfunded, overfull and staffed by unperpaid teachers and administrators. There's no reason why that has to be the case in the future.

>>678290157
No that's a far left regime deliberately murdering its population. I am sure they would've taken margaret Tatcher or any other woman in exchange of Stalin.

>>678290421
any country like germany or france or britain or sweden or denmark?

>>678283718
>15$ per hour
>in fucking america with its current debt
this is a road to ruin. Germany has been doing rather well in the recent past(economically, not talking about Merkel selling out the country) and we have a minimum wage of 8,50 euro.
15 is, even considering that it should be a bit higher because you might pay less taxes than us, completely unrealistic wishful thinking.

>>678290390
Fucking ey. Not wanting to pay for someone's women's studies degree will crash the eonomy?

>>678290426
Part of the reason both trump and sanders have supporters is because the normal options all sound like your post.

>>678290265
Great and well thought-out point. I especially liked the part where you didn't actually say anything of substance.

>>678289766
>>678289850
>implying robots are free.

Anyone that votes for Bernie literally has no understanding of how economics works

>>678290528
8.5 euro is ~$9.75 US. Our current is significantly lower than that.

>>678290276
Your point?

I'm saying that short-sighted people opposed the industrial revolution for the same reason they're opposing the technological revolution today. Imagine of those morons had won the argument back then!

>>678290181
there are a lot of shitty private schools too. and some very good public schools.

It's not really funny either, it's kind of predictable. Public schools are there to serve everyone and have to take everyone. Private schools can exclude whoever they want. It's pretty easy to look good when you have the luxury of excluding all the low-performing or hard-to-teach students.

>>678290038
>You know there are studies
Stopped reading there.

Everyone can make a study and claim shit.
Why should I believe your studies and ignore the studies that tell me a different story?

>>678290533
Nice strawman. Does that work for you?

>>678290757
Private schools also control their funding/tuition, which means that those that are "good" can charge more, and thus get their pick of teachers, resulting in being better consistently.

Bad private schools exist, but good ones are better for a reason.

>>678290390
No. You are shortsighted. Welfare state has proven to be unsustainable over tine. You want me to change the current system (already bad) for another one that will tax me to death, and then my kids, so mu grandkids will be thankful for that choice.

Nah anon, thank you, I prefer a society in which everyone has the chance to compete and get to the top, not one in which being at the top is considered an aberration, that's what my kids will thank me for.

>>678290528
€8.50/hour is about 40% of the average wage in germany. $15/hour is about 50% of the average wage in the us.

>>678290354
>Lack of demand for a product
>new, higher, minimum wage stay in business as long as their product is in demand.

Higher price decrease demand you moron

>>678291010
When the minimum wage has been raised in various states, the living cost has not been shown to raise nearly as much, nor has there been a significant negative impact on business.

Individual states have been doing this shit already.

It works, and doesn't do what you say it does.

>>678290918
so, why does welfare germany have much lower debt per gdp and better ranking than the us?

>>678290506
All sinking in deficit and on th verge of political collapse, and I guess he meant Cuba, Syria, Libya, Venezuela...

>>678288845
Uh, no. It was always a democratic republic. The idea of capitalism is half as old as the country itself, but is not why or how it was founded.

In fact, the US was founded for two major (and now ironic) reasons. Freedom of religion and freedom from oppressive and unnecessary taxes.

>>678286425
She didn't give the embassy assistance when the station chief asked for it before the attack, then blamed it on american film makers after it happened....

>>678290898
Oh please. You're up to your teeth in logical fallacies

Stones and glass houses dipshit

>>678290918
And you really think we're on a good path right now? Or are we still in a deep decline?

The term "welfare state" is poorly defined, and I don't think it captures the magnitude of what needs to be done to pull up before it's too late. But we surely agree that we will not succeed in the long term if we don't make better investments in future generations, right? We might disagree about what that means, but can we at least agree on that point?

>>678290506
Germany has a market orientated socialism, so no pure socialism

Denmark and Sweden are expensive as fuck.

Nice try but you failed

>>678289775
>>678289843
Good arguments kiddos.

>>678288910
Yeah. Tyrants tend to help the country they're from out a ton, while simultaneously destroying everyone else's.

If you're a fan of tyranny, vote Hillary, though. You'll be getting Nazism with Trump. That might not be close enough to your itch.

>>678291223
sure, neither of those has worse ranking or higher debt/gdp as the us

he said any country, that means any country. but you can name nepal as example of nice capitalist democracy and argue with that one

>>678291319
Ha, another quality response. That's about what I'd expect from you by now. Thanks for playing.

>>678291404
nou

>>678290681
You pay less taxes, moron!

>>678291392
denmark and sweden are expensive for whom? the americans? it's not expensive if you live and work there. it's not like the money disappear into pharma and arms companies

>>678291392
>marked oriented socialism

So... Socialism? Is anyone saying the US would adopt the same system? You're just being contrarian now.

>>678291538
Ooh, you seem mad. Are you getting worked up?

>>678290986
We have different tax systems, why you ignore that? Easy to claim something, as long you ignore the important informations.

>>678291184
Maybe because germany, like the rest of the fucking world, gets welfare from the u.s....ie nato protection from the commies. How long do u think they would last against putin without our nukes?

>>678291472
I'm not the anon you're throwing your temper tantrum at kid

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>>678283718
>mfw Dodd-Frank and all regulations before have led to the growth of mega-banks, and the demise of all the smaller local banks over the last 20 years.

>>678291783
oh, this trump lie. good job, anon!

like forever with british and french nukes ;)

>>678291795
I can tell, now. At least he could form a logical argument, lol. You're more the "internet tuff guy" type. It's okay, that's my fetish.

>>678291858
Uh, no. That's actual European military doctrine.

>>678291184
Better ranking on what? What is the ratio debt/national income on both cases? What is the commercial balance between main partners in both cases? How will the US cope with external comitment (#1 worldwide) while on an open welfare system like Germany's or Sweden's?

You take me for a dumbass, but I guess you are right and the US can become Germany in 8 years and every implication, feature and specific conjuncture are not to be taken seriously.

Again anon, your idea is bad. Socialism doesn't work and I prefer to work for my stuff and earn it. Peace.

>>678291595
You mean to say that the US should be like the nations that benefit from America's large investment economy that develops the tech everyone else gets to use, as well as hiding behind the US's giant global military umbrella?

Sweet, sounds great. But who is going to do all the investing, developing, and security enforcement if the US doesn't? Maybe you think China or neo-ussr will be so selfless? Or the eurocucks will get theirshit together? lol

>>678291944
what? to not start three fuckingly expensive wars in the middle east?

>>678286251
minimum wage in the 60s if adjusted for inflation would be something like 22$ an hour now
this is the classic divide and conquer technique, big businesses make it hard for small business to operate, and then they scapegoat people trying to raise the minimum wage as if its the workers fault. Ultimately we are all fighting over scraps. If you think we live in a true open market society or anything that evenly remotely resembles pure capitalism then you are a disallusioned retard. We live in an oligarchy with a thin veil of freedom that basicaly amounts to you getting too choose between coke and pepsi

>>678292058

No, to rely on US military capability.

Starting three wars was a terrible idea. Did you know Sanders opposed that action?

>>678284582
All your argument lacks is evidence.

>>678291883
Nigger why would I actually spend time typing out and sourcing an argument for you when all you're going to do is say "lol no free shit, buzz feed told me so"

>>678284813
>>678284860
>Guilt by association

>>678291383
Of course. <shakes hand>

>>678291858
Tjey're still being payed for by someone else. We spent 15 trillion dollars on nukes and germany didnt have to, even though they depend on them. This is what welfare is on a global scale. All these other counties pointing at themselves saying that welfare states work, when they can't even provide basic defense for their citizens.

>>678292058
Yea. And then to be a cuck and welcome in all of the displaced refugees to suck from your delicious welfare teat.

>>678292200

Because you really want to blame your lack of ability on someone else? Maybe you should blame the schools? Creating and sourcing a solid argument should really be taught in them.

Seriously, it's like all you have are fallacies.

>>678292174
You mean the same 60s when the economy collapsed, even though the rest of the world was still recovering from the destruction of ww2 so USA had basically total control of the international markets?

Yeah, it didn't work very well then and it'll be even worse now.

>>678292287
What do we do now? Do I.. Do I show you my penis? I'm kind of new to the internet.

>>678291967
better credit ranking. germany has aaa, us aa+

debt/gdp: germany 69 %, us 95 %
deficit/gdp: germany -0.2%, us 4.6%

>>678292351
Nice projecting bub, I'm guessing you just learned what a logical fallacy is?

>>678292378
Did you actually read what they wrote? You either didn't read it or you missed the point.

>>678288197
holy shit i didnt know Trump is able to tame chimps

>>678291383
>better investments in future generations

Selfishly spend more on ourselves now so that our kids will have to pay the debt plus interest. You must be a boomer.

>>678292403
If you are on /b/ there is a 60% chance I've seen your penis at least once in 8 years.

>>678291165
>the living cost has not been shown to raise nearly as much

So, you raised the minimum wage and the living cost increased.

What do you mean with "nearly as much", dont hide the numbers!

>>678292294
and the british and french nukes were free? both states are welfare states as well

btw. that more shows how much the us overpays arms companies than anything else

>>678287102
who do you like then? Shillary? Jeb Quacbowl "my idiot brother and father were both president so now its my turn!"? ted cruz?

$15Hr=devaule of our currancy
Not over value of low end labor

>>678292498
Hah. Yeah, that must be it.

Thanks for the chuckle, mate. You have anything worthwhile to say or are we pretty much wrapped up here?

>>678292537
How the fuck did you get that from what I said?

>>678292549
Good point. I'll update it in my official /b/ profile, just in case.

>>678291609
And Germany under Adolf Hitler was National Socialism

>So... Socialism? Is anyone saying the US would adopt the same system? You're just being contrarian now.

>>678292779
Exactly. That's why oversimplifying the argument (as some here are trying to do) is counterproductive at best

>>678292191
not really. europe has enough military to defend itself, with different countries targeting different scopes (e.g. my country targets chemical and biological warfare and provides these services even to the us which lacks that sophistication - for free, of course)

>>678292627
Nah, I started getting bored a few posts ago

>>678292566
They don't have weapoms programs anywhere near the scale of the u.s. and they also still rely on nato.

>>678291595
> it's not expensive if you live and work there

Right, because the people that live and work there dont pay ridiculous high tax rates, have to pay more money for daily goods. Think about all the goods that have to be imported, because its to expensive to produce it in sweden.

Damn, I wonder why other socialist countries are shitholes, must be socialism

>>678292378
>implying that the US economy didnt surge in the mid 60s
>implying that this surge wasnt due in large part to the vietnam war which proves what that poster was saying about the way this country functions
>focusing on the symptons and not the underlying illness

>>678291672
Im not mad
>you moron
THat was a logical conclusion and not a emotional outburst.

>>678292196
All you need is to be relatively decent at math.

Pretend you work at a grocery store in one of the 10-15 states that do not have a min wage (so it's now $7.25 an hour). You immediately force it to $15 an hour (obviously this will be gradual so you "won't notice").

How many people in that store get paid less than $15 an hour? Don't forget to include your buddy who's on parole working at the next register that you got a job, the janitor, and Jimmy the retarded box boy.

So, now all of them, plus the extra 16 year olds they hire at xmas and easter are paid twice as much (not including FICA and SSI which is another 20%, plus his 3% income tax hike) so what is that going to do? Just raise the price of all the fucking food.

Suddenly when you go to spend your double wages, everything in the fucking store costs twice as much. Then same goes for gas, cause that guy is getting paid more, cause he got a raise, then same goes for getting your toilet fixed, because when that guy found out YOU make $15 an hour he demanded to be paid more than you, and your neighbor asked for a raise because he couldn't afford to shop for groceries anymore at his wage.

It affects the whole fucking economy and no one really gets any more money. It is just fucking pandering.

All the min wage does is prevent teenage kids and entry level people from getting into the job market and increase artificial inflation.

>>678292955
All european armies are designed to do is hold off an invasion while theu wait for nato (read: u.s.) reinforcments. This is stated nato doctrine. Sorry your argument is going badly for you.. :(

>>678293068
Okay, then. Thanks for playing!

>>678292955
US provides 75% of NATO defense spending, and possesses the major force projection platforms that Europe doesn't have. They choose not to, because they know that the US can and will support them militarily. This is not just an observation- it's a well documented strategy. Seriously, read the US and NATO strategic documents.

>>678293256
Lol, k.

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>>678286425
She knew it was a terrorist attack (it happened on the anniversary of 9/11 for fucks sake!) but she told the public it was because some Muslims got mad over a video on youtube. As if. She was covering for Obama because of their policy helping to overthrow Khadaffi in Libya, which was supposed to be this Arab Spring resulting in peaceful western democracies, but instead more extreme elements took control, and now you have ISIS making a caliphate. But Hillary said video, because can't have her and Obama looking bad as their policies were going to shit. They also refused to pull the consulate out of Bhengazi like most other countries did and move everyone to the embassy in the capital Tripoli, because it would look bad in the press and show their support of the revolution was shit. They also refused to provide adequate security. So people died just so Hill and Obama wouldn't look bad 2 months before the 2012 election. She also lied to the relatives of those that died, telling them this bs story about a youtube video, when she knew the truth. The fact that she knew was proven in the emails subpoenaed from her server.

>>678293265
>looking at economics in such a simplistic way
>blaming inflation on minimum wage increases.
this country really needs to have a break up. Let all you stupid fucking uncle toms (who unironicaly call everyone else cucks whilst being award winning cucks for the bossman) stay in red states and continue making shit wages (or make lot o money while your neighbors starve) have your idiotic laws about abortions, gay marriage, and bathrooms. The rest of us will continue on with our productive, forward thinking adjustments. Out here in seatle we pretty much already did this shit and everybody is the better for it.

>>678293532
This.

Also, the Japan constitution prevented them from even having a military. The US protects Japan under treaty since WWII and they have no military force.

US is world police, 900,000 strong. FY17 is 1.2 Million. (Not including "support" forces).

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>>678284582
>Yeah but he's a cuck.
Ooh you sure got him there
>Also, doubling the minimum wage is retarded and will exclude more people from the workforce by decreasing demand for labor.
There is literally no evidence to support this claim.

>>678285416
>forced labor
Anything you do is struggling labor.

>>678292445
Look at the german economy

1950 - after WW2 everyone bought new goods, it gave the economy a kick start

1970 - The economic growth decreased, import mass turks as " Gastarbeiter", they do the cheap labor -> increased the economic growth again

1990 - Many "Gastarbeiter" turks stayed in germany and demanded welfare -> economic growth decreased -> implement feminism -> playing the business woman card -> flooding the work market with cheap labour -> economic growth increases

2010->now -> import "refugees"-> cheap labor -> econimic growth -> better credit rating

top kek

>>678284582
SMALL BUSINESSES ARE EXEMPT UNDER THE PROPOSAL READ A FUCKING NEWSPAPER YOU CUCK

>>678293814
This is what people forget when they complain about our defense spending. I'm not saying that we shouldn't cut that spending, but anyone that thinks it's just that easy doesn't understand the second and third order effects.

>>678292510
Lions can tame too you know.

>>678293947
I agree with you, but I didn't know this. That really changes the whole argument. Thanks.

>>678292859
Muh Socialism
Muh Communism

My Ideology is not wrong, people just implemented it wrong!

>>678293956
Reinstate Japanese military autonomy. Literally that simple. Their standing natl defense force is already substantial; it's not like we've restricted them to BB guns u retard

>>678284659
Fuck Sanders!

>>678294003
Indeed. Sorry for callin you a CUCK in all caps; you seem reasonable.

>>678293984
yeah but im the only one that can tame your mom faggot

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>>678293265
>relatively decent at math
>actually thinks that a livable minimum wage would cause product prices to double
>decent at math
This is what conservatives actually believe

So if you dont vote Bernie, why is Hillary better?

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>>678284582
>Yeah but he's a cuck.

>>678294294
He's right. Not even math, just logic. Higher input costs = higher prices. Day one stuff

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>>678284749
>yfw

>>678293265
fuck what people say.
common sense and logic dictate that the more of a currency everyone is able to obtain and spend, the less that currency becomes worth.
printing more money, and handing out cash just means businesses lose profits, therefore have to raise prices gradually to compensate while turning around and cutting back on workers just to keep profits up with inflation.
supporters of increasing the wage arent exactly ignorant. the results will allow people to point the finger at corporations and industry and pout and scream for a nerf on capitalism

Not voting for him, NY Daily showed exactly why he has no plan. Literally is a bizzaro Trump.

Sanders, the Bizzaro Trump.

>>678294070
Go for it, I'm all for that. I'd like to cut our costs, but you can't expect that to happen in as vacuum. Japan isn't ready to project force and ensure stability in the reason, but I'd be happy to let them build up to that.

You lovely person, you.

>>678294294
Evidence to the contrary?
You should probably read up on liquid vs. plastic market volatility.
Also, you're clearly a Bernie voter. Kill yourself, but not before I drop a thick load into your girlfriend so she can experience what being with an actual non-cuck man is like.

>>678294126
Shit, sorry. I'm a different anon, anon. I was just thanking you for pointing something out.

>>678294294
If x=y

If you increase x by a factor of 2, then you have to increase y by a factor of 2

2x=2y

Do you study "Women Studies" because you are bad in math?

Increasing the minimum wage nationally to $15 would be a retarded move

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>>678294430