LOL! You suck cocks.

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looks like someone got stumped

>>670389215
Because Americans are too dumb and afraid to understand the bigger picture. every small bit of change is a rallying cry for "muh freedoms" I think americans just really love to chant and clap like mexicans finding every excuse to throw a party. lol

Government abuse is rampant in the American political system. Everything passed meant for good is ultimately used for personal gain of whoever is in power. They are afraid of government dictating things like what food you can eat, where you can go at certain times and things like that. The whole slippery slope idea

You just don't get it Mr. FAGGOT!

Government pays for doctors to keep people alive because they are lazy and don't work? (Free health care)

Then...next is government buys all your food.

next is government buys your housing.

YOU CAN NOT TAX YOUR WAY TO HAPPINESS FOR ALL.

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>>670389215
Short answer yes
>playing devil's advocate:
-, there is no such thing as "free" healthcare. It comes from taxation.
-our country has very low taxes compared to yours and the rest of Europe.
-less taxes=more $decision making power... More control over the fruits of your labor

It makes sense.

>pic related. The people who will benefit from other's labor

>>670389215
Conservatives in the US don't believe that the government should be in any business where private enterprise could make a profit.
They leave all the loss-making stuff for the taxpayer to finance.
Health is very profitable. People will pay enormous sums to keep themselves and their loved ones alive.
Looking forward to Blackwater-style privatised military and police services once Trump is elected.

>>670389215
We have way too many stupid people that would take advantage of the system...already do.

>>670389215
>Of course the goverment should care about the health of its people, no one else will do it.
Because I can do it my fucking self?

>>670389967
This

>>670390655
>free
Its called basic, affordable, healthcare

no one said anything about free

>>670390995
We HAD that. Obamacare made it cost MORE.

Most Americans are conditioned by the rich and the media to hate the poor.

We all think we're temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

It goes back to the fifties. When the red scare started, everything left leaning or otherwise anti-capitalist was deemed a godless abomination of an ideology. Around this time "Under god" was added to the pledge and we have never really gotten out of that notion that leftist government policies = Communism/Socialism. It didn't help that Reagan further demonized the Soviet Union and esposed heavy anti-communist rhetoric that people still associate with leftist policies in government.

>>670390667
What kind of nonsensical blah blah is this??? Are you an illegal immigrant trespassing in our blessed U.S. of A.?

>>670391124
>We HAD that. Obamacare made it cost MORE.
for rich people.
And available to all.

>>670391463
>make $14k/year
>call agencies and marketplace to try to get a decent plan
>quotes me 200 fucking dollars a month
>when it used to cost me 40
Yeah, no fuck off

>>670390995
>>670391124
Obamacare made it cost more, unions, made it cost more, insurance companies have made it cost more, our tax system has made it cost more. Did you know most doctors pay thousands of dollars per week for their malpractice insurance??? Which most never use.. Silly shit like that is why our healthcare is so expensive. If insurance buys everything, the hospitals can charge the insurance whatever they want. This in turn raises their rates, etc... but we're the ones that pay for it

>>670389215
The Gov provides nothing. It takes money by threat of force (taxes) and spends them more stupidly than the owner of the money would've.

I'm Britfag btw, and I think we should all do what they're doing in Finland, the negative income tax. All the welfare state is disbanded but every citizen receives €800 per month for life from their taxes to do what they want with.

They can be sensible and spend it on healthcare, saving for a pension, or whatever. Or spend it all on booze. Their choice. That's freedom.

>>670391188
We dont like leftist policies because history has proven that they dont work longterm.

Simpler question....if I bust my ass (and I have for the last 15 years after starting my own business) why if the fuck should I pay double what I should for health insurance so that nigger baby factories can make their slimy pussies spit out niglets and it not even cost them a dollar at the hospital? Answer me that, ya betta axe sumbuddy.

>>670391730
see
>>670391717

>>670391463
Im by no means rich, but if i dont go to the hospital all year i dont use my insurance, dont have it, dont need it, so i get fined for being a healthy American...WTF is wrong with that picture?

>>670391969
There's a hell of a lot of reasons for why our healthcare is so expensive. Mostly so that pharmaceutical companies can keep using us as guinea pigs while we fill their pockets

>>670391969
>>670392368
Obamacare is a fucking terrible idea, dont get me wrong, im just saying its not the only thing to blame

Here's the problem in a nutshell: We have the best heath care in the world because we've invested a shit-ton of money in it. We spend more on R&D than a lot of you fucks spend on your entire national budget. Add to that about a billion attorneys that will sue you to death and beyond for the least fucking mistake and you have a system that demands and delivers the state of the art.

I'm not sure from whence the idea came that some nigger shooting drugs in his vein or some stupid cunt sucking dicks for $5 was a valuable person who should have the best we can provide on demand but that's what they are trying to do here, give a valuable and scarce commodity away for political gain.

Those of you with socialist system and a huge influx of niggers and Arabs are going to find out how well that works with a limited supply and unlimited demand. You won't be able to get your balls cut off if they are solid cancers without waiting 2 years.

Also consider: when the state has an interest in your health as they do when they are paying for your issues, they are in a position where it benefits them to limit your freedom. Don't like people with liver problems? Outlaw drinking. Don't like skateboard injuries? Outlaw skateboards. It will happen, it's just a matter of time.

>>670391463
god you're fucking delusional

>>670392368
Main reason healthcare is so expensive is that the insurance companies can't compete across state lines, so there isn't enough healthy competition.

>>670389215
OP, shills like you are the reason why my family left Germany in 1740 and settled in this once great nation. enjoy your Muslim invasion and being called racist if you complain.

>>670392658
Preach on my brother. You speak of the truth!

>>670389215
CDU/CSU Abschaum.

>>670389215
>health of its people, no one else will do it.

...people care for themselves. And have. Always. Since the dawn of time. God damn...

>>670392785
Tru dat

>>670392785
Exactly. Where there's no competition, companies can set their own prices. This right here, is why socialism is a fucked system. It makes the government have a monopoly, which leads to abuse, etc.

>>670389215
roll

>>670389215
Your Nation and culture has been handed over to muslim niggers who have replaced your culture with theirs. They rape and molest your women. You pay for their children. You are cuckolds. Please kill yourselves.

>>670393197
Your average American doesnt know shit when it comes to things of a medical nature...sadly, we used to be a pretty well educated nation

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>>670392986
enjoy your "freedoms"
probably fat, uncultured, lazy, or in jail

>>670393197
>...people care for themselves. And have. Always. Since the dawn of time. God damn...
the people working in the hospital, nurses etc. are employed by the goverment

there are private hospitals and clinics>>670393921

>>670393197
>people care for themselves
Not in the EU, the people just mindlessly wait for their government to do everything for them.

In Germany from the day you're born, and your parents choose your name fromthe government approved list of names, to your education (which has to be in a government approved school), healthcare, retirement.. the government is there all the way running everything for you. They have no independence left.

>>670392112
Didn't you just get fined that others can be healthy Americans, too? What's so bad about this?

>>670394128
most hospitals are run by the goverment

>>670394213
>They have no independence left
you know, you can choose your school, healthcareplan yourself

>>670394366
We have a lot of lazy fucks and niggers, not to mention all the illegals we now openly support for whatever dumb fuckin reason...most other countries shoot you, or deport your ass right away, here we give handouts. I wouldnt mind helping out, but what we have here is a flawed system and society. When that money goes to breeding inbreds, niggers, and your other various uneducated detriment...it kinda makes you not want to part with that money

>>670394440
It hasnt always been that way though

>>670389215
>are people so afraid of big goverment that they rather let people die on the streets?
yep they sure are

>>670389967
>What food you can eat
Monsato Corp is already doing that m8

Conservative American logic is as follows:

If it's the government's business to provide health care, then it's in the government's best interest to ensure that you are healthy. This lowers your liability and costs less for the government. So from this the government decides what is and is not healthy, and could conceivably enforce its decisions upon American Citizens. In the American system, the conservatives and liberals might be simplified with the following basic views: conservatives move policy in favor of freedom and liberty, while the liberals move policy in favor of equality and justice. All four ideals are part of the American system, and they are not always "opposites". Those who emphasize liberty view government controlled health insurance as an overreach of power. They want the government to be in control of the least amount possible.

>>670393462
You have no idea how much less Medicare reimburses vs private insurance, do you?

>>670396062
I have a pretty healthy grasp. Im not saying that the government is in total control of our healthcare right now. Im saying that that's where it will go eventually, if we socialize our healthcare to the extent that people want

>>670395905
/thread

>>670395905
>They want the government to be in control of the least amount possible.
the conservatives in germany are the other way around - they want to be part of the system and they want the system (Goverment) to render the possibility for a stable exitence for everyone who follows the rules

>>670395905

I'd go further to say that on the other side, equality and justice, there is a desire for the less fortunate to have health care, for it to be guaranteed to all. This is the liberal view.

>>670389967
Yeah. America is paralyzed by fear. Our country was founded by religious zealots, who were inherently suspicious of Government. This tradition is still alive today. Even though we are considered a Western country, we have a mindset very different from most others in the West. Another big thing = we weren't really impacted in the way Europe was by the WWI and WWII, which made providing healthcare for all a real necessity.

>>670396704

This might be why you're getting confused. What is "conservative" for one country does not always match with another.

>>670396353
So are you saying Gov't will pay more out for services then they are now?

Have you ever read a Medicare invoice? I do, a lot.

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>>670389215

>>670396815
Atheists, are religious zealots? kek dumbest shit ive heard all day. We had quite the variety of beliefs with our founding fathers

>>670397278
Im saying eventually the government will be the only ones left. The smaller companies will go bankrupt trying to compete, the bigger ones will buy each other out, then theres only a few companies left and the government controls all of them.

>>670397079
no its Universal
Family Values, Traditions, Follow the Rules, some form of Patriotism, beeing proud of where you came from, beeing a good citicen in the eyes of others

This are deepstructures that are Universal to conservatism everywhere

>>670389215
the federal government is run by big business. any laws that make anything "mandatory" only serve the large corporations that will be given the contracts to provide the now mandatory services.
so, here in the USA, the real effect of something like obamacare is to force citizens to purchase a product they may not need or want.
I make enough money to pay for doctors and hospitals without needing insurance, but they want to take that option away from me because there is more profit to be had from my insurance premiums than by waiting for me to get sick.
the government shouldn't have that power.
the government shouldn't have the power to force me to get vaccines for things that aren't deadly or overly contagious. the government shouldn't have the power to force someone to have a baby they don't want any more than they can force me to eat food I don't like.
liberty means not having to do shit you don't want to, unless it is vital to the survival of the society that protects us from foreign invaders. our government lets people dodge wars for made up religious reasons, but doesnt want let them dodge insurance or vaccines for very real personal philosophical beliefs or financial concerns.

tldr: most americans don't want a nanny government, and are willing to trade the chance at getting free healthcare and free college for the chance to keep our right to live in the hills with no shoes and no insurance and home school our little incest babies if thats what we want to do.

still tldr:
fuck socialism when its being sold by capitalists who will be prifitting by selling all the "free stuff" that the niggers and apple product enthusiasts want so badly.

>>670397362
I was referring to the Pilgrims, honey. But don't let that stop you from telling your Mom that you showed the internet how hard you are today.

>>670397278
The more it becomes socialized, the more it will become abused, this leads to higher costs, which closes businesses. When the Government is the only one left in control, they pay what they want. Do you know how many Canadians come to America for our healthcare system? because its not socialized

>>670397607
Yeah, that's the point, which will lead to lower prices.

>not that I think the Insurance Lobby will let that happen.

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>>670391730
>Did you know most doctors pay thousands of dollars per week for their malpractice insurance??? Which most never use
The reason it costs so much is the medical industry refuses to police itself and get rid of bad doctors, and that means the only way for the system to be rid of bad doctors is for them to be sued out of medicine.

But the insurance companies (very big and very profitable) have allied with the medical industry (also very big and very profitable) to protect not the patients but *the money* - so they will litigate anything and everything and spend whatever it takes to prevent from paying injured patients a dime.

And that means the only way the small fish (the patients and their lawyers) can justify playing a hand in court is to go all in and play for huge damage awards, since otherwise their risk is too great - which is of course the insurance companies' goal, preventing any payouts by making it too expensive for injured patients to litigate their cases at all.

By allowing bad doctors to continue to practice, the medical+insurance cabal leave themselves open to those doctors, instead of simply being fired for being incompetent, actually doing something horrific to a patient (or patients) - and so instead of inexpensive firings those doctors end up costing the whole system millions of dollars.

Though one could also make the argument that insurance rates for malpractice are just the insurance companies fucking over doctors the same way those insurance companies fuck over patients.

They're all cannibals, profiting off the suffering of other human beings.

>>670397808
Not all of the pilgrims were religious either lolololol
Dont you know what Masons are?

>>670398117
How will that lead to lower prices? That only means they can continue to charge what already is and Boom! they have a bigger budget. We're trillions in debt, why give away free money that Americans are already being forced to pay?

>>670398023
>Do you know how many Canadians come to America for our healthcare system?
No where near how many stay there for healthcare.

>think about that

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>>670398119
Exactly what i was trying to get at. Thank you for adding

>>670398631
Most probably cant afford to come here for it, if you have serious medical problems, you're most likely not going to be the best off financially. The majority of the world isnt rich. So, the question should be, how many would prefer to come to the U.S. for medical care because our doctors are better, our hospitals are cleaner, and they aren't forced to wait?

>>670389934
So by bigger picture you mean how you had your dick and balls removed and a government anal implant installed to help you think right by butt hurting you every time you have an independent thought l

>>670398465
>That only means they can continue to charge what already is
Totally wrong. There won't be any insurance company's to over bill.
I see what I get billed. I see what Medicare reimburses.

>it's astounding

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>>670389215
Hi Germany,

please help an amerifag understand why you want to gas all jews

>>670398224
I owe you an apology. I thought I was talking to a reasonably intelligent person. Please carry on.

>>670399217
Hospital is run by state. Medicare is run by state. Both can do whatever the fuck they want and charge what they want, because you gave them that control. You honestly dont think this will get taken advantage of?

>>670391173
What are you watching and listening too?

>>670399500
>>670396815 you even said founded...dumbass
America is paralyzed because sheep like you listen to what they've been taught to believe like good little hitler youth...yes you are

>>670399500
You said sheep. Lol. Hillbilly.

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>>670399500
Way to ditch the question

>>670395603
Guess who made that possible government the less government interference the better.

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>>670399256
we dont - contemporary Germany is a huge Universe you dont know about and will be unaware of for the rest of your life

pic very related

>>670399127
Ridiculous.
Do you know where we stand graded by WHO?
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/
Canada 30
USA 37

Ok, the thing Europeans are missing about Americans is that above all else, we hate to see people get ahead that "don't deserve it". For conservatives, it's anyone that wasn't born with money. For liberals, it's anybody who is white; especially white males.

When we see someone who "doesn't deserve" what they have, we have a compulsion to take it away. It's like a nervous tick. We will sacrifice ourselves, our money, everything we are just for a chance at punishing someone that "doesn't deserve".

>>670400582
>When we see someone who "doesn't deserve" what they have, we have a compulsion to take it away. It's like a nervous tick. We will sacrifice ourselves, our money, everything we are just for a chance at punishing someone that "doesn't deserve".
thats human not specificaly american

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It's important to understand the "inside baseball" story of why Obamacare ever came into existence.

Obamacare was Obama, Emanuel, etc. hijacking the public's desire for real health care and perverting that for their own political gain.

Instead of trying to create a national system of health care (which Americans both want and need), they instead created a system where every American is forced, at government gunpoint, to buy a product from a private industry - forever.

It's essentially selling the American public to Wall St. (since Wall St. owns both the medical conglomerates and the insurance companies - and the politicians, too, of course) like an interest-bearing bond.

And in return for selling America into slavery (kinda fitting the first Black President did it), what Obama and Emanuel demanded from Wall St. wa
1) not to oppose the plan while they were trying to pass it (they didn't, they were utterly silent)
2) reduce donations to Republicans and give them to Democrats instead (since the D's were going to be giving Wall St. billions of dollars in new, forced Obamacare premiums).

That's also why as part of Obamacare all the stuff that would actually help the public - like single-payer options, or even something as simple as the public negotiating lower drug costs - was not only not implemented, it was explicitly outlawed.

So Obamacare isn't at all about the health of the public - Obamacare is selling the body of the public to Wall St. so Wall St. can parasitically feed off Americans and maintain the health of the wealthy.

Health insurance is not health care. And health care is not health. What Americans want and need is *health*.

>>670389215
>why is it that Conservative Americans are afraid of the Goverment providing them with Basic healthcare?
When was the last time your government did anything right on their own?

>>670401153
they said no to the Irak War

>>670391188
Yeah what happened to every country to let the government take control over everything? Oh yeah they killed and starved millions of people putting them in camps. Yeah really great ideology and way of think and doing things.

>>670401016
I've seen a video where monkeys do it too actually. One monkey gets pissed that he sees another monkey get grapes when he only got cucumber slices.

Point is, it's an emotional response, not a rational one. Instead of making ourselves better, we try to drag everyone else down.

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>>670401153
Funny how people who spout this line seem to have no problem with that same government spending a trillion dollars a year on war and being in charge of nuclear weapons.

>>670390894
>We have way too many stupid people that would take advantage of the system...already do.
Lehmann Bros, for a start.
All those banks propped up with taxpayers' funds.
In comparison, welfare fraud is a rounding error.

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What is Obamacare?
One of the largest increases in welfare and taxation in US history.
Taxation which rests almost entirely upon the middle class.

Also:

The rich 1% pay for the advertising that gets politicians elected, and thus the 1% controls much of the government.
The politicians pay off their debt to the rich 1% by writing laws that benefit the rich 1%.
And the politicians also use tax money to buy the votes of the welfare class.
So it is a case of democracy being a situation were 3 people get together and 2 of them decide to take all of the third one's money.

>>670397324
>Cuck'd on a NATIONAL scale.

>>670402194
Old adage: Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

>>670389215
We have a huge number of niggers and other inferiors. It is against the our ethnic interests to supply government services because they will be supplied universally to niggers and spics. You'll learn this soon enough with your millions of "refugees".

>>670389215
For me it's the mandatory part, that's kinda fascists in my opinion. We should have the right to choose if we want to be stupid and be uncovered.

>>670397610
You missed Fiscally Conservative (not spending when you don't need too)

Even in the US, Conservatives differ based on Money, Religion and Patriotism

it is in NO way universal.

>>670393689
Yeah Iam with you I want my dick and balls removed and my family members to be raped on a daily basis. We will prove to everyone just how progress we are government is God government is life free will and thought are the devil conservative.

>>670393689
you really think anyone believes you're german.

>>670394658
Yeah we have the government a and government b choice same with school

>>670391730
>If insurance buys everything, the hospitals can charge the insurance whatever they want.
Nope.
Very like the auto insurance industry. They'll haggle over the cheapest way to get the job off the books.
My partner had compulsory auto accident insurance. Somebody drove into the back of her car (at a red light) at 45MPH.
The insurance cuts out paying for therapy because she should be OK by now, never mind she's in pain 24/7.
Insurance is a profitable business and won't pay unless compelled to.

Serious question. Why does a 4 fucking mile trip to a hospital in an ambulance cost 400 fucking dollars? Also, why is health care cost so much in general? Why?

>>670403262
>NO way universal
I believe there are Conservative values that are Universal

like the impotance of healthy Family structures
like basic forms of politenes
like basic social conventions (dont steal, dont curse, obey law)

>>670403950
Because they're allowed to charge whatever they want, and you're legally compelled to pay up.

Politicians are in bed with big pharma and the insurance industry, said politicians get greased pockets to allow pharma and insurance to write their own rules. And we keep electing the same assholes.

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>>670403655
yes thats how it looks when I look outside - its a neat place to live

>>670403950
Because there's no regulations set.

It's all about profit.

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In America business, government, and media are simply three cooperating divisions of one single entity - an entity owned and controlled by a very small oligarchy.

The media is the marketing & pr division, the carrot directing people to think and behave the chosen way.

The government is the coercive division, if the public doesn't follow the media's lead by choice then the public will be made to do so by force.

The business division is the mechanism by which money is extracted from the public and directed to the controlling oligarchy.

That these three partners in the national scam are "adversaries" is all part of the con.

>>670398119
You forget how sue-happy this nation is.

If the doctor tells you there may be some side-effects
>sore ass
And you suffer the side-effects and complain and tell the doctor to try a new drug
>I'm sorry Anon, but you said you wanted this drug and it's working so very well as long as you don't mind being a little butt-hurt.
This isn't what I wanted.jpg I guess my only option is to sue.

>>670390949
cure your own cancer retard

>>670404742
trilateral commission ?

>>670391861
but they do work look at germany

Dear German fag what's it like to have muslims burdening your social systems and raping your women?

To make it easy, if you don't make enough money to afford health care then who cares about you and what you do? I'd rather pay less taxes and get rid of poverty fags tbqh

>>670401122
Oh and remember when they tried to reverse Obamacare? The reason it wasn't illegal to fine someone for not participating in a mandatory health insurance program?

The 'fine' is legally considered a Tax.

Its a Tax to buy insurance unlike car insurance (which owning is a choice) or home insurance (which owning is a choice) but a tax on being alive.

>>670405911
crazy Americans - muh rights muh constitution Ayn Rand - I dont give a shit about anybody else - thats freedome - something something the Bible

>>670405911
Sorry, but the rights of my neighbors not to die from substandard care trumps my rights to keep an extra 1% of my money. I'm already blowing like 6% of it on a military I don't want or need; where's my right to reject that?

>>670404152
While I AGREE with you that these values are Universal...

I disagree that they are uniquely or even explicitly Conservative. I believe Liberal or many other politcal leanings can have these Universally acceptable values.

I just believe that these universal values are called 'Being a decent human being' and shouldn't be regulated to any one political ideology.

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>>670389215
>Of course the goverment should care about the health of its people
Yes, but remember that regardless of what we may have been told government cares about the public only in the way a chicken farmer cares about the chickens - those chickens are a product, to be sold and consumed, bringing profit to the farmer.

This has *always* been the purpose of government. It's inherent in the very word.

That the farmer may have told We the Chickens a happy story to keep us sedate and docile while we're fattened up for slaughter has nothing to do with how the system actually functions.

> no one is dying in the streets: the quality of our healthcare system is excellent. Very expensive, but excellent.

> Generally we prefer to ration by price than by gov't fiat.

> The US is kicking ass in pharma, biotech, and bio-engineering: this is not because we are smarter or better educated -- manifestly we are not -- it is because we pay enough to cover the RnD.

> Our gov't medical programs, Medicare (elderly) Medicaid (poor), typically deny coverage for 1 in 4 treatments suggested by doctors. There is fear that this would be the case for any gov't run healthcare-- denying many treatments.

> There are much shorter queues for treatment in the US than typically oversees.

If you're serious about learning more read Thomas Sowell.

I happen to support national healthcare, but I don't pretend there isn't a well-though out opposing view.

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>>670406734
To quote the old standby of Rights Activists

If you don't like it and can't be bothered to change it, Get the FUCK OUT.

>If you want to change something, do it inside the system.

>>670406734
You don't have a *right* to other people's goods and services, faggot. A right to "healthcare" means forced labor to make physicians work, ridiculous costs to apy them all what they demand, or shitty quality and rationing.

Pick one. Slavery. Ruinous taxes. Garbage quality.

Because money. Our government likes to profit, sure we can get free healthcare if we raise our taxes. But we won't get as much "bang for the buck" because the government would of course be profiting from this.

In a way it's fucking communism, look at it this way. You have to have a car in Germany, no exception. Would you rather have the freedom to make your own choice with the money you have, or you can give me $20,000 and I can tell you "ok, you are driving a 2013 Chevrolet Silverado" Now do you really think that I put the WHOLE $20,000 you gave me into the vehicle? Nooo, I kept some for myself, and that's bullshit!

>>670407159
>I disagree that they are uniquely or even explicitly Conservative. I believe Liberal or many other politcal leanings can have these Universally acceptable values.

Conservatives tend to highlight those more - liberals take basic Conservative values and build upon those - Liberals tend to take those for granted and so they move to the background

>>670405903
eurocuck here. indeed they are a burden but we cant stand on the side when innocent people die.

>>670389215
It's a political thing. US Conservatives have been harping against this simply because it's a Democrat system, and under Obama who they despise because Democrat. If the Republicans had proposed the same exact plan they would all be OK with it because Republican. US political conservatives are retards who never seem to know what's best for themselves.

>>670406397
Obamacare isn't merely a tax, it's the chains of slavery - since even with taxes there's some notion of the tax being applied to something optional, but with this the tax is as you so rightly noted a user fee levied for being alive.

And to expect "laws" that were themselves created to chain and control people to in this instance free them is hoping for a bit much.

Obamacare is another variation on carbon taxation: money the wealthy extract from the rest of life itself for the privilege of being allowed to remain a living, carbon-based life form.

>>670408120
>fucking communism
you pay taxes and get something back

bridges, streets, police, hospitals

nothing wrong with that

>>670407748

>If you want to change something, do it inside the system.
So the Jews in concentration camps in 1940 should have worked "within the system" to try and keep the Nazi's from killing them?

When the system isn't designed with your interests in mind, it's no longer optimal to work within it.

The political game in the US is rigged. It's for the wealthy elites, and literally no one else has any say whatsoever.

Inb4 "you get a vote." Yes, we get to decide if we want our oligarchy with or without gay marriage. Fuckin great. Hillary will get the Democratic nomination, then win the presidency, not because she's the best candidate, but because she will do literally anything her corporate masters tell her to do. Just as her husband did, in the 1990's when he overturned the banking regulations that had kept us from a major market crash for 70 years.

>>670389215
There's a difference between "mandatory" and "free" healthcare programs. It's in the ballpark of paying a road and bridge tax when I gas up my push mower, but getting fined if I refuse to mow my grass.... "Free" healthcare, and I mean "free" in the most absolute context, would basically make doctors and nurses into slaves. No matter how you look at it, somebody gets fucked, and it sure as hell won't be the US guvmint.

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>>670406651

I assume you never really read Ayn Rand's literature based on what you have said. Rather, you simply regurgitate what your superiors dictate about her work and defend it by using such words as " muh rights, muh freedoms".

Ayn Rand never believed in a "me and me only" type of scenario. In fact, her primary philosophy was what she coined as collective individualism. If you have actually read her work, please approach it with an unbiased mind free from the limitations that modern day liberalism has constructed in your feeble mind.

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>>670407748
> >If you want to change something, do it inside the system.
The Founders would have told you to go back to England.

>>670408240
>but we cant stand on the side when innocent people die.
LOL, pussy. We fucking can.

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>>670409118
>The political game in the US is rigged. It's for the wealthy elites, and literally no one else has any say whatsoever.
Ding ding ding ding ding.

This anon gets it.

>>670407704
Since you seem like a legitimately decent person...

I like to compare Health and Car insurance... not a 100% comparison, but a starting point for most people.

The government requires Car insurance for those who voluntarily own a vehicle, not because of the payments to cover your own car, but because of the payments to cover the other person's car. Any insurance over the 'liability' program is not required and is essentially a luxury service for expensive toys, these are often titled 'Comprehensive' plans. A recent trend in the industry leans towards rewarding people who avoid claims.

The government now requires Health Insurance for those who voluntarily choose not to die (Suicide being the only way not to voluntarily not be Alive that I'm aware of), not because of the payments to cover someone else's health, but because of the payments to cover your own health. Any insurance over the 'self coverage' is mandatory if you have children, choose to smoke, have an uncovered spouse, wish to include dental, wish to include vision, wish to include reproductive services. Programs that would be considered 'Comprehensive' are a different program known as Life Insurance. A recent trend in the industry leans towards punishing people who avoid avoid claims (not visiting the doctor)

I believe the whole thing would blow over if Health insurance functioned a little more like Car insurance.

>>670390151
Uber stupid.

>>670409300
>Ayn Rand
I did - liked it - agree with most of her liberal views - but there is a reason most academic philosophers dont like her - shes very narrow minded - just like most conservatives in the us

>>670409755
>I believe the whole thing would blow over if Health insurance functioned
ftfy

>>670409415
i dont really see whats the big problem tbh fam

>>670408759

>Fucking communism

Being told you have to buy something or you will go to jail, and not only do you have to buy this, but you have to buy it from the government at the prices they choose. This certainly doesn't scream "FREEDOM"

There is more unemployment here in the U.S

>>670408148
I'm agreeing with you on those points. The LIberal mentality to me is much like Icarus and his Wax Wings, has great expectations and flies too high, only to suffer for it.

As the old saying goes,

If you're in your 20's and you're a Conservative, you have no heart.
and if your in your 50's and you're a Liberal you have no brain.

>>670395110
>most other countries shoot you, or deport your ass right away, here we give handouts
Uh, I'd much rather live in a country of handouts rather than living in a country that shoots unhealthy people.
Not to mention that there's more people looking for work in America than there are jobs anyways.

I got my insurance license during the time that this was a hot button issue. Basically people don't like that it's a requirement to pay for health insurance. If you don't have health insurance in the US, you are forced to pay a tax penalty.

If it was free health care for all, I don't think it would be an issue. People just hate being forced into shit. An older coworker told me that she was around when the state started requiring auto insurance, and public outrage was similar

>>670410379
why cant US be called a 3rd world country exactly?

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>>670410232
There's free as in speech, free as in beer, and free as in range.

Americans are free in that final sense.

>>670409118
> "And then they came for me" should sound familiar if you REALLY know your Holocaust history.

>>670409380
> "Declaration of Independence" sounds pretty systematic to me.

>>670389215
Because I can pay for my own health care.
Because everyone knew that getting the government involved would only fuck up the medical system more(funfact: it has)

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>>670410795
America has the largest prison population on earth. Larger than Stalin's gulags. Who are you trying to fool, dumbshit?

lol America free? noooooo. no, in fact about the least-free nation on earth.

>>670410761
Because we have iPhones and shit.

>>670409947

Narrow minded or not, Ayn Rand's political philosophy does not determine my individual political and philosophical beliefs. She may encourage, or help forge it, but in no way do i read her shit and say this is the way of the universe. I am very conservative when it comes to economic policies but seem to be very moderate in societal concerns. Gay marriage is an abomination, religion needs to stay out of politics, legalize marijuana, start deportation immediately....etc, etc.

What bothers me most from your response is not that you generalize conservatives- because it probably is true. However, i think you fail to recognize that a majority of "leftists", progressives or liberals are identical to conservatives in the fact that they simple rehash what has been beaten into them.

MY government teacher in my first year of college from a loooong time ago preached something that i didnt believe back then; however, with each passing day i come to accept it. 33% of the population is and will always be stuck in the left. Another 33% of the population is and always will be stuck on the far right. The next 23% are truly satisfied with ignorance and dont fuckin care.

The remaining people truly do work at honing their intellectual prowess but it doesnt matter because nobody listens to them as their opinions are strong enough to influence the rest.

>>670409118
So fucking expose the system, gather the will of the people and run for office.

You sound so sure that the 'system' is what's holding you down, so shouldn't you GTFO of the system?

>Move to ISIS, they don't vote, no wealthy elites there to rig the system.

>>670410761
The entire definition of "3rd World" essentially means "outside the scope of the United States".

>>670391463
find the nearest gun, put it in your mouth, and then proceed to pull the trigger

>>670410930
Then they shot everyone wearing red, and hurt their feelings. God forbid someone's feelings get hurt in modern America. Crips have the right idea. Maybe they should form a political party, we'd all be self medicating and wouldn't need healthcare anyway.

>>670411061
Comprehension clearly isn't your strong suit.

>>670410232
You may not have noticed, but you're agreeing with him.

Why do you think the popular majority dislike Obamacare? It's Communist.

>>670409300
Eh, I read the Fountainhead and while I liked her philosophy on how artists shouldn't bow down to public pressure it makes no sense on an economic scale. If someone else designs a building you don't like you don't have the right to blow it up. And the rape stuff was weird.
I can't be arsed to read Atlas Shrugged.

>>670411555
The will of the trips is clear. He must do it, or be turned into a brony.

>>670411718
You have it exactly backwards.

Obamacare takes from the People to benefit the Corporation-State.

That's *fascist*.

>>670411718
>Why do you think the popular majority dislike Obamacare?
Just call it "the affordable care act" and most people like it. Break down most of the specific policies like not letting insurance companies deny people with pre-existing conditions, and letting kids stay on their parent's plan until 27, and then the vast majority of people support it. Most people are dumbasses.

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>>670411595
I don't follow. You said some words...

Then you said some more words...

>I Don't See what you did there?

>>670411718

Agreeing with who? I posted the first comment he responded to, he failed to get my silverado comparison so I replied with that.

>>670412227
No need to follow, those words were put together in order to not do nothing at all. Move along, move along.

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>>670412002
>socialized medicine is right-wing

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>>670400528
>WHO
discarded

>>670402091
>402091▶
>>>670390894
THIS!

Healthcare is not a right

>>670412874
Maybe it should be.

>>670412669
All I got from that picture is that the Swiss only get breast cancer.

>>670412113
>Break it down
Okay.
>Can't deny pre-existing conditions
But your rates are based on your pre-existing conditions since your medical history before ACA is known information with your new plan.
>Letting kids stay on plan till 27
You could stay on till like 24 or 25 before hand, 2 years, GOSH.


Wait... you only had two points?

let me double down on your vast knowledge.
>AFFORDABLE
Oh, it's been a couple years annnnddd.... Nope, it's not.
>Businesses of over 50 full time employees will be required to provide Health Insurance
Business that has near 50 full time employees have trended towards part-time or seasonal help causing yet another hit to the consumer's purchasing power.

>>670412669
There's more to health care than cancer survival rates.

Get some real life experience behind you.

>>670389215
1. Because that's not the purpose of the Constitution. The Constitution limits how intrusive the government can be. The more the government controls the more it can control individual behavior.

2. People should take care of themselves. It's not the government's job to mandate ass-wiping and make sure people do it

3. The government is not a charitable organization. It cheapens charity. Individuals should want to help their fellow man out of the kindness of their heart, not because the government told them to.

4. Yes we fear big government, everyone should. That's why we broke off from England. Americans are extremely charitable. They will render aid and prevent people from "dying in the street"

>>670412963
As should three balanced meals per day be a right.

>>670413180
Good argument.

>>670413241
>Individuals should want to help their fellow man out of the kindness of their heart, not because the government told them to
good luck with that

>>670412976
Swiss don't poop.
Swiss don't get erections
but DAMN do the Swiss like their titties.

>>670413303
About as much as the one I responded to.

>>670413276
Yeah, keep talking. It's America, we can do all sorts of amazing shit, like providing the basics for our citizens.

>>670389215

The major reason for things like this is taxes. Taxes are the main reason of every political debate in the US of A.

>>670413276
It is

You just have to be in jail to get it without working for it yourself.

>>670413276
As should gender reassignment?

>>670392658
Wow so much bullshit

>>670413687
Don't get ahead of yourself man(woman[or child])

One political battle at a time please.

>>670395905
So they want to shift the power towards companies
Well im happy that im not living in America

>>670413496
It happens everyday. You will not find a more genorus society on the entire planet than the US of A.

>>670413856
You're right. I'm a regular guy. That's muh gender identity. Anyhoo, back to free doctorin' and such.

>>670389215
I'm American and solidly conservative and I have worked exclusively on federal and state healthcare reimbursement programs for about 6 years.

I can tell you this: the first answer is "money" and the second answer is "control". Anyone who says "freedoms", "practicality", or "common sense" doesn't know wtf they're talking about. The question of right and wrong doesn't enter into the equation due to #1 and #2 being 90% of the issue.

I kind of admire obamacare not because I think public healthcare is an awesome idea but because of the balls it takes to push that through. The populace says it was wrong because "the people" don't want it. In fact, the people think they don't want it *because* money told them to think that way. Again, doesn't mean obamacare is great or even workable. In fact, the public sector is a HUGE part of the problem!

But this isn't about values. People think it is but it's about money and control.

>>670413138
>Wait... you only had two points?
No, I just didn't feel like breaking down a fucking 3000 page legal document in a 4chan comment.
My original point that "most people dislike this!" is a pretty terrible argument. You even referenced "communism" which is the archetypal American scareword perpetuated by Congress. More Americans dislike Communism because of McCarthy rather than they actually Marx and disagreed with it.

>>670414200
It took zero balls. "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it."
>vote Democrat and we'll give you stuff

Well i guess amerifats are happy about having a healthcare system like an underdeveloped country

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>>670389215

The first thing you would want to understand is that all people in the United States are actually not the same person. We're over 300 million strong and we all think differently. Many times, very differently. As you grow up and get out into the world a bit, you'll soon discover that stereotypes are often more convenient than they are accurate.

Further, if you know anything at all about the United States, you know that our government doesn't typically spend our tax money on what they promise to spend in on (that's why Social Security won't exist when I'm ready to retire). They lie to the people about pretty much everything.

I don't know if you're familiar with "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" or the saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But it's kinda like that. Once you get lied to a certain number of times by the same people, you eventually stop trusting them. That's where we're at now.

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>>670414134
>genorus society on the entire planet than the US of A
thats not true and deepdown you know it

your part of the problem

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>>670414204
>Communism Not So Bad Comrade

>>670414555
>"We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it."
I bet "You didn't build that" is another favorite soundbyte of yours.

>>670414555
Agreed, that was cowardly.
Doesn't change the fact that the whole idea was pretty damn bold.

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http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2009/08/17/we-need-to-be-careful-when-comparing-us-and-uk-cancer-care/
>this damage control

>Americans are more likely to survive cancer
>b-b-but those numbers are inflated because they're diagnosed so much more
>and they're diagnosed so much more because they go to the doctor more
>and they only go to the doctor more because they have so much more money
>a-a-and that cancer probably wouldn't have killed them anyways

Meanwhile, they'd rather pay for immigrants to come to their country to rape their children. How pathetic.

>>670414810
I never said that, Communism is a flawed ideology. But most Americans dislike communism because they know they're "supposed" to dislike it, rather than knowing anything about it.

The right wing of our country has had an extensive, well-funded and highly sophisticated public-relations apparatus since the late 70's. It consists of a network of lobbying firms, "think-tanks," and PR companies that work together, and leverage their ownership and influence over AM radio stations, print publications, and cable news channels, to influence public opinion with a breadth and depth that is very disturbing, and has also been very effective.

>>670414698
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/09/africa/world-most-generous-countries-index/
>get rekt you pinko-fag

>>670414917
So is stabbing a lion with a fork. Bold, yes. Stupid? Absofuckinlutely...

>>670414839
Correct. It's indicative of how cancerous the American left is.

>>670415548
You should get rekt just for quoting CNN....

>>670414204
The 'Archtypical' scareword of Congress exists because Capitalism, the foundation of the US Economic system and Socialism, the Foundation of Communism, and antithetical to each other.

So it makes at least a little sense that we'd like to demonize the opposing viewpoint.

>>670415789
There's a huffpo, npr, and several other sources that say the same thing. The USA gives more in monetary contributions than the rest of the world.

>>670415857
Of course. But that's not my point.
Are you even reading my comments? You've missed the point I've been making for a while now. I'm done.

>>670415088
The problem remains that the ACA is a system that is grounded in Socialist doctrine, was declared constitutional only because it's legally a federal TAX.

And you have yet to refute my points, unlike myself who has refuted your only two points.

>>670411061
Sorry bro. You misfired on that one.

>>670389215
>ITT: most Americans don't even understand how the American system is supposed to work.

I'll put it as simple as I can for eurotards. Think of America as the EU. The individual euro nations as U.S. States. This is a loose analogy but simple to understand.. Anyway, do you want Greece making rules for Germany, or paying taxes which go to subsidize some country that you totally disagree with just because the pres of the EU said so? No, you don't.

Every US State has the power to pass healthcare laws which works for their States, in fact, most states had/have laws in place which provides free healthcare for its less successful citizens. This is also true for every other social program such as housing, child care, food assistance, energy assistance etc. Etc.
When the federal govt steps in it usurps the states ability to pass their own laws for their own citizens. So now with Obama care for example, I have to subsidize stupid fuck southerners health care, and whatever else the govt does with the money, which I now have absolutely no control over.
Yeah, I really don't give a rat's ass what Alabama does, but I also don't want the feds telling me I have to take care of them either. Unless some rogue country attacks them, then we come together. Maybe.

So, if anyone in America really, really wants a socialist society, all they have to do is band together and take over a state by getting socialist state legislators and governors elected. They can make it as socialist as they want. Then, when all the citizens and businesses leave they'll all whine and complain about America.

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>>670416093

>>670416773
Hey, I am that stupid fuck southerner and I take offense to the implication that my health isn't impeccable.

>>670416773
Go fuck yourself you yankee.
>plenty of rednecks up north

>>670416773

Thanks anon, I was about to make the same point.

I don't give a shit what any state wants to do, but the Constitution specifically reserved for the states powers not granted to the fed. With the current interpretations of "general welfare" and "interstate commerce," literally nothing is off limits.

>>670417044
It is already a proven fact that states which already had pretty liberal public healthcare systems (northern) are now subsidizing those who were shitty at providing for their citizens (southern) directly through the exchange and higher premiums and partially through the expanded Medicare system which is part of ACA.

The other

>>670389215
Hi German fag.
Do you pretend that the holocaust didn't happen to?
Hitler
Pro government health care - blond hair blue eyes healthiest - jews dirty diseased and need to be quarantined.
Pro free education aka Hitler youth
Pro disarming the people cause after all, the government will protect you.

Hitler was real, Hitler was bad, Hitler was misguided, hitlers true target should have been shit skin muslims.

>>670389215
European conservative and American conservative are actually quite different on the political spectrum.

>>670417629
Oh yeah, all my fucking neighbors are slobs and fatasses.

I was just talking about me here.

>>670416773
your an idiot and as such in need of the goverment taking care of you

>>670416773

In all fairness to Alabama hicks, the largest amount of current medical debt currently exists in the liberal states of the northeast and California.

>>670417456
This. The cuck SCOTUS reads the 14th amendment how ever the fuck they feel like it. I'm surprised that they haven't found that every American has a right to a government subsidized car.

>>670416773
Lol. It is *not* the same thing.

> Yeah, I really don't give a rat's ass what Alabama does

You should. Legislation was passed taking effect this year to revise how the country pays for drugs. Alabama's approach factored strongly into that new model because it's one of the best at getting providers paid while minimizing cost. Even private insurance is benefitting from their model. Your state is going to have to follow suit by 2017 if they're not one of the 10 that have already adopted it.

>>670417839
>your
Calls other anons idiots. Do the taxpayer a favor and an hero.

>>670417737
Hitler was real, and was keeping it real.

Anon does not understand that if not fit the Jew problem, the Muslim problem would not exist either. They are one and the same, but the Jews birthed the Muslims.

>>670417822
>European conservative and American conservative are actually quite different on the political spectrum.
this doesnt make any sense - the differences are cultural - they are very similar in most of their behaviour

>>670389215
We are illogical and do not understand pity, or basic mathematics. We also will get pissy as soon as the government waste our money trying to fix the issues big companies like Nestle, Coca-Cola, or McDonald's has caused. Ie, obesity.

>>670418106
I speak four languages Bruder

>>670417839
You mean "You're" an idiot, and as such, should be euthanized.

You feel pretty smart I bet. Most tards do.

>>670418256
This guy knows what's up!

>>670412465
Fascism is as left wing as left wing goes.

Left wing = want government to do more things for you and thereby have more power

Right wing = want government to have less power and therefore do less things