how does it feel working at mcdonalds

>>600772871
What's it like being literally retard--
>inb4 what is it like to be gay/stupid/etc

Well. What's it like in 11th gra--
>inb4 what is it like in high school

Fuck. What's it like in 1848, fa--
>inb4 what is it like having 19th century ideals

I'm done.

hows it feel to meet a fellow communist <3

>>600772871
fuck off OP, nobody gives a shit
straight to page 11

>>600773240
I'm not working at McDonald's, so I don't know. I can't imagine working a job like that, but they're somewhat necessary. There's nothing wrong with it if you are content with life.

>>600773444
kek

>>600773577
It's good. I know there's a ton of left-leaning users on /b/, but usually they shy away from such topics because most peoples' political opinions on here are complete garbage based on personal experience and poli-sci/econ 101 classes. Hopefully you'll stick around and keep me company.

OP can't inb4

What's it like to be a retarded gay high schooler with 19th century ideals?

I feel you tbh where is some good modern communist /lit/

Hows it feel to be a bus driver?

Communism doesn't work.

>>600774318
There's not really anything in the way of "modern communist literature", thanks to Iosef Stalin and Harry Truman. Stalinism and the Truman Doctrine have made the idea of collectivism, Communism, and planned economy so taboo that people who write with these ideals usually go by another name.

Sartre was a Marxist - Existentialism is a Humanism is a good read.

If you want like today modern Communist thought, look up The Venus Project or Peter Joseph.

>>600774558
I'm not a bus driver, but again - if you're content, power to you, and again - those jobs are necessary.

>>600774862
Not educated in political science or economic theory.

>>600772871
are you a murrican communist or an actual communist from either the failed communism of the USSR or South America, or the communism kicking USAs ass in China?

What's it like being so needy you seek attention from strangers online?

>>600772871
I agree with the general idea that capitalism is a system destined to run amok and stomp all over the lower classes. It's a system that will end up fucking itself up when the lower classes no longer have enough money to be good consumers.

But the one good argument from that camp that makes me think is the one concerning innovation. It DOES seem that innovation thrives in a capitalist society, with a few exceptions, where it would be very hard for people to get that same motivation in a communist society - because most people are motivated by profit, after all. Thoughts on this?

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check my communist dubles comrade

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Are you a part of the master race of Communism or some pleb version like Trotskyism?

>>600774988
It's never worked. Russia fell. Vietnam fell. China isn't even communist anymore, in the traditional sense. North Korea is falling apart, and Cubans would rather be in the us than Cuba.

When has it ever actually worked, op?

I'm a maoist, good to see a fellow corade

>>600774988
Why the fuck do you write it as Iosef and not Josef you conceited twat? Fuck off back to >>>/lit/

>>600775516
This.

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>>600775634

>>600775240
i agree with you 90%

>>600772871
How in the actual hell are you still ignorant to be a communist after supposedly educating yourself thoroughly in matters of economics?

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I've been looking for an excuse for this gif

>>600775516
Nigga Vietnam won you dumbass, the north won and leads a prosperous Vietnam to this day you uneducated fuck

>>600776120
>not a gif

>>600775134
There's really not a difference. There's many "denominations" of Communism within the umbrella theory, but the general principles are the same. Also, it'd be very difficult to call the USSR a Communist country by any definition. Stalinism is a more correct term.

>>600775160
I lost my long-time romantic interest a month ago and I'm still pretty broken up about it. I am a bit needy right, now, mainly because I'm so depressed I don't feel like moving or going anywhere.

>>600775240
I'll elaborate in a later post. Give me a few minutes to formulate my thoughts.

>>600775256
Off by one kenobi

>>600775303
I am a general Communist. I've read Kropotkin, Marx, Fourier, Lenin, Robert Owen... I'm not convinced of the best system overall, but I believe in the ideal. Most Communists see the Communist economy as an endgame system - not something that see this happening in the next 50 years.

>>600775516
Communism on the scale that you're talking about hasn't existed. But do check up on Anarchist Catalonia, and pre-Industrial Communism. The means are there. We just need the right combination of leaders (or lack thereof) and movements.

>>600775634
I'm not too interested in Mao.

>>600775827
That's the correct spelling of his name.

>>600775987
Capitalism isn't going to work. Socialism is a happy medium, but doesn't quite go far enough.

>>600776130
>Vietnam
>Prosperous

>>600772871
vanguard or council communist?

sup OP

the invisible hand is more efficient at running an economy than any central bureau could be.

humans are too individualistic and tribalistic to submit to a collectivist system without violent coercion.

while commodity fetishism is a problem, mixed market capitalism is the best system anyone has come up with so far.

so my question is, how do you respond to these points?

>>600776455
>fastest growing economy in southeast Asia
>implying it's not because your only idea of Vietnam is from an American war movie

>>600776120
>.gif

Retard alert.

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This thread reeks of faggotry

>>600776397
A community, sure. But what good is a form of government if it can't govern a country of people? Utopia is bullshit, op. Communism only works in theory.

Hey another comrade! How is weather?

It is snow?

> It is always snow

How long you been comrade? I was comradified in 2013

>>600776772
>Implying Vietnam isn't a poor man's version of China.

>>600775516
lol

Capitalism failed every nation that tried it too, and isn't capitalism in the traditional sense either.

All social and economic models try numerous times and continue to develop until they stick or are replaced.

Why is the middle class gone? Cause capitalism is a winner-takes-all game. Where did all the jobs go? To China, because USA couldn't compete. Why is all USA's consumer and military manufacturing now handled by China? Because USA can't economically compete. Why is USA borrowing its war funding from China? Because USA can't afford it. Why can't USA honor its agreements to defend Hong Kong or Japan? Because if China invaded them, USA would have to borrow money from China to fight China off. Capitalism is losing hard.

Upvoted

http://youtu.be/VgrrkwkPe7Y

What do you think of this video?

>>600776397
Communism doesn't work. Please see the book Down With Big Brother: The Fall of the Soviet Empire. The only thing that made communism be able to last so long in the Soviet Union was the vast amount of oil it could leach, but naturally they even mismanaged that.

>>600777388
For now anon, for now

>>600772871
Why do your ideals seem to require the eradication of white people? Do you think that once everyone is a half black (or Muslim), that society will just magically turn commie? Why is that? Because you think mixed race people are less intelligent and open to manipulation? That's racist man.

>>600775240
Kropotkin addresses this in his work Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution and The Conquest of Bread. Innovation is driven by competition to create a better good or service to compete with your neighbour. But how many times have we seen throughout history that country A has a good thing, and country B has the same thing - just as good but in a better way - and they combine the two to make a better good/service?

It's the same theory, on a smaller scale. Competition drives early innovation, cooperation perfects (or is closer in any case) it.

Well, you might say, without profit, why would we cooperate for innovation? Kropotkin discusses this as well. When we are this well-developed industrially and socially, people would be able to pursue what they WANT to do, rather what will give them hope on the economic ladder.

Consider this:

How would you compare two doctors of equal ability, but different motivations? One went to school because he heard doctors pay well. The other went to school because he wants to help people.

>>600777310
Why can't it govern a country of people?

Also, "Communism is only good on paper, in practice it doesn't work" is the most annoying piece of propaganda from the Cold War ever. People actually believe this. The same could be said of Capitalism, but neither are true.

"Communism only works on paper" is one of the most ignorant things people could ever say on the subject.

>>600777392
Capitalism is broken, I agree, but communism isn't better.

Democracy, at its core, is a good concept. Communism, at its core, is a good concept.

The problem with either of these is the human factor. People suck, plain and simple.

>>600772871
>Bachelors in Philosophy
>Minor in Political Science.

Why is it all American Marxists are born out of the bowels of academia? Why are none of you actual workers?

In extension to that why do you think you know what's best for us on the work site when you've never welder or even lifted a hammer yourself?

>>600777876
Soviet Union wasn't Communist. Please update your opinions with facts.

>>600777989
What?

>>600776770
The invisible hand is present in almost any economy. It's not specific to the free market, only exemplified there.

Individualism should thrive with more freedom - political and economic. That isn't an argument.

Mixed market capitalism has failed as well. No economic system has actually succeeded. There's a decline in every one of them at some point in history. But technology will get us closer and closer.

>>600778728
>Soviet Union wasn't Communist.
No true Scotsman.

>>600778451
For a story to accompany my questions.

I work as a welder and we do a lot of high rise work. The IWW showed up and wanted us to unionize promising shorter hours and higher (but equal) pay. I asked why I would want to go up to dangerous heights and do dangerous shit when the guys doing clean up would make the same. I asked what incentive a truly communist system would have for shitty or dangerous jobs.

All they could tell me is I would do it out of the goodness of my heart for the betterment of society. Which is bullshit, I wouldn't do what I do if it wasn't for the money. So, OP, what say you? What is the motivation in a classless society? How are you going to get people to do jobs no one else wants to do without shoving a gun in their face?


>in b4 mexicans.

>>600772871
Explain to me why it isn't true that the myriad horror stories of Soviet industry are the necessary result of central planning.

>>600778451
Because the workers aren't the ones who are remembered throughout history. The academicians are.

Post the handful of examples of blue-collar workers who made changes if you want, but the fact remains. The vast majority of people in history books are bureaucrats or intellectuals. Why do you think you have any agency over the people who MADE your tools or the systems you use on the job site?

>>600779065
I declare Canada a Communist country. What is your response?

>>600772871
everything you are using is the product of capitalism.
Communism failed all over the world:
Russia, Cuba, China, Cambodia. but you still keep pushing it.

Freedom > Equality

>>600776120
you can't post gifs from a phone

>>600779065
The Soviet Union never claimed to be Communist. They were still in the Socialism phase of Marxism. I believe they said that they reached Socialism around the 1st 5 year plan.

>>600779454
So the movement to unite workers for the good of the workers should be handled by the people who have never worked a day in their lives?

Makes perfect sense.

>>600778034
>When we are this well-developed industrially and socially, people would be able to pursue what they WANT to do, rather what will give them hope on the economic ladder.

I can understand how, if nobody is left wanting and life is grand, people will be genuinely free to pursue whatever they're actually interested in - which is a better motivation than profit.

But the transition is the difficult part. Do we just halt any sort of progress while we trudge towards an ideal society? How long does that take?

As a side note, I think transitioning from capitalism to communism in a country like the U.S. would be nearly impossible at this stage, unless some catastrophic event were to happen. It'd be much more likely to develop in an already developing nation, but ofc. the U.S. is going to stomp that out. I say this because, while these ideas may sound great, the "it doesn't work on paper" argument might make a better point than it seems to. On some level, it just seems like an impossibility, and it feels like any effort spent on the idea is wasted energy.

>>600779379
You aren't a proper sampling of human motivation or even an average of those around you. Also, this is a predominantly American thing to say. I would consider educating yourself on the subject instead of assuming things based on your personal anecdotes.

>>600779676
Not the product of Capitalism - of Society in general. Capitalism isn't as old as you think it is. And Communists have no issue standing on the shoulders of Capitalists. There's an interesting factoid for you:

Socialism/Communism require a country or nation to be industrialised before it can be implemented. Capitalism does not. If anything, in a certain light, Capitalism paves the way for a planned economy.

>>600780153
Again. Your vision requires workers. I am a worker. You are not. I can tell you right now no one I work with is going up 80 stories for the same pay as the guys who are unloading the trucks.

>>600779454
You're changing the subject, tell me why the Soviet Union, the United Soviet Socialist Republic, the most well known and long lasting communist state to have existed, isn't communist. If they weren't communist, then that's news to them and the vast majority of the human race, because they were certainly trying.

>>600779792
Would you let the people you work with run labour unions? Also, "sense" is relative. What does not make sense to you makes perfect sense to me - and having studied these topics for years, I believe that I have a bit more confidence regarding the factual basis of my opinion over yours.

>>600780153
Yea and when industrialised countries reject communism you turn to the unindustrialised and called it Lenninism.
planned economy doesn't work, because it is always one step behind the real needs of the market.
And the fact that all communist countries were dictatorships doesn''t help either.
Marx gave socialism the idea of a violent revolution and fucked you guys for good.

>>600780522
Yes. I would want workers to run labor unions. Otherwise how is this any different than the present system where academics are running the front office and heading up production?

>"but it's OUR bourgeoisie"

>>600780078
>But the transition is the difficult part. Do we just halt any sort of progress while we trudge towards an ideal society? How long does that take?

This kind of movement doesn't happen overnight. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime, or even by the time my grandchildren are ready to die. But there will always be a steady push towards it. Communism, or some form of planned economy, will be the economic endgame. I'm not asking for revolt tomorrow, it is simply the direction that economics are bound to go, and I'd like to see a stronger push towards it than we see today.

And it's not even so much that people aren't pushing for it. No, we've yet to reach that step. There's still people indoctrinated by the Cold War to be scared of Communism. This is evident especially in America where people aren't even taught anything factual about planned economies or their histories.

The only way for communism to be instituted is by force. Communism is extreme by definition, so it will never be elected into a sane country. People who take power by force will always use force to maintain their power. People who never leave power and don't have to worry about elections make stupid decisions. Therefore communism will never work.

>>600781213
Pretty much this.

This thread is summarized as:

>I've never worked a day in my life.
>But the system gave me a degree to put on the wall.
>now get up on that scaffold and get back to work, Comrade, or you'll be sent to the gulag.
.
WORKERS PARADISE!

>>600781017
Hey CommiAnnon

My dad grew up in soviet russia.
he says it like it is.
communism is about free labor.
and everybody were scamming the system.

capitalism is about freedom. I can own things and reinvest my money however I see fit.
I don't reject labor parties as they join the democratic game.

>>600780482
Again, you (uneducated in the subjects) and your coworkers (it would be safe to assume they aren't either) aren't a valid sampling of human motivation or good will.

>>600780855
Violent revolution was necessary AND normal for the time. Marx was one of the greatest economic thinkers in history, and the majority of his work didn't even deal in Communism or even revolution. That is just not factual.

>>600781213
>>600781474
I can't refute opinions, only post facts in hopes of bringing people closer to truth.

>>600781017
Why do you think it's inevitable?

I remember reading Marx and having him describe what I mentioned earlier - capitalism pushing people down further and further until they don't have money to spend to fuel the system. There was a quote about how slaves only rebel once some basic conditions of existence are no longer being met - if it's still tolerable to be a slave, even barely tolerable, people aren't going to take up arms and do something about it.

So, if capitalism doesn't push people down QUITE far enough - if it lets workers retain a tiny bit of rights and dignity, lets them stay JUST comfortable enough to barely keep up their existence as the working class... then why would people ever act to change the system? It doesn't seem so inevitable to me. It takes a lot for people to stop being docile.

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Can you think of a real-world example of a communist state?

If Cuba comes close, how can we excuse the moral decay of its leaders?

>>600781911
Again, you (not a worker) and your fellow non-academics (it would be safe to assume they've never worked either) aren't a valid sampling of the motivations of labor or industry.

>>600782252
*Fellow academics.

>>600779676
>if Communist China is successful, it's not Communist.

no true scotsman

>>600772871
can steal beams melt jet fuel?

>>600780855
Would you want a welder to teach your class on philosophy?

Why then would you want a philosopher dictating labor unions or directing labor?

It sounds like you think you're in a different class or something.

>>600781911
Shouldn't you be trying to make friends with the proletariat steel welder guy instead of insulting him by calling him uneducated? You communists have really lost your touch.

>>600781911
Marx had nice theories that were proven wrong in the end.
there for there was never a revolution. and a violent one is never the way.
if it is for you then you are no different then ISIS who shoot their way into a muslim revolution

>>600782801
Quoted the wrong post, sorry. OP isn't the only one drunk.

>>600781643
>>600781643
I too grew up in Soviet Russia. We complained about everything then. But now when we look back, at least we had some kind of jobs, and some element of safety under us. Now, everything is always uncertain and is life and death.

>>600778728

communist systems have collapsed for the most part. the USSR is gone, China is a sort of hybrid capitalism with central controls, North Korea is a backwater propped up by China.

the West is still standing, albeit with serious defects, as seen in the subprime mortgage and sovereign debt crises.

the way I see it, we either need to find a sustainable economy, or keep growing and extending into space.

I'm in favor of continuing the capitalist machine until we colonize space. it seems like your communism is aiming at a sustainable economy.

how could communism work when it has a history of violent convulsions and defeat?

>>600781930
This idea of the workers rising up is no longer valid. There's no education among the workers, and as Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo put it, they're too focused on reproducing and making enough money to support themselves to focus on meaningful change. Just like every other major change in history, it will happen from the top down. But look at European countries and even America. Portugal has within the last 15 years instituted Socialised medicine. Norway, Sweden and Finland are among the "happiest countries in the world", and nearly everything is Socialised - education, transit, health care. Obamacare (while I hate it, since it's not true Socialisation) shows that there's still a push towards a more equal society even in one of the most unequal of countries - America.

>>600782070
This is something I'm still fumbling with in theory. There's an answer out there, but I don't know it yet. Anarchism possibly.

>>600782252
You're right. But you aren't seeing outside of the box.

>>600783075
The workers aren't going to be a vanguard of revolution. That idea is one of the past. The workers will remain workers, but at least hopefully lead a better life.

>>600783082
Marx was never proven wrong. In fact, his predictions in Das Kapital are starting to manifest in Western Europe.

>>600783082
>violent one is never the way
Most revolutions aren't accomplished through peaceful civil resistance alone.

Nonviolent revolutions usually only occur alongside the very real threat of violence; it tends to make people pay much more attention to what they have to say.

>>600782801
that is what we have all the time in capitalism when weldors lose their jobs and companies are so desperate they'll take anyone trained or otherwise, because NO PLANNING

>>600783075
The IWW was just as bad when they came around. It was a "We know what's best for you" pitch that no one was buying.

My grandfather always told me about Eugene Debs and the Socialist movement during the depression. It's easy to say that the actual "workers movement" in America is long dead. What we're left with are wannabe intellectuals who want to use the workers as a pawn in their game against the existing system. Thankfully we're not falling for it.

>>600783671
The same applies to Communism and other free market mechanisms. Do you think the United States will merely "fizzle out" when its' time has come?

Try, try again. But this time with the thoughts of the everyman in mind.

>>600783543
Thats because Russia isn't a democracy it is a dictatorship trying to act all democratic.
Putin calls all the shots.
The truth is the russian people doesn't want a democracy, they want a strong father figure.

>>600783719
>The workers will remain workers.

This proves my entire point. You think you're in a class above us. You seek to just replace the existing ruling class with yours.

>>600784259
This applies to every country or nation in history. Yes, even America. There are more followers than leaders in the world.

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What's it like wishing you were as good as the rest of us Americans?

>>600772871
Philosophy is a waste of time, why didn't you study something more useful?

>>600773943
>I cant imagine working at mcdonalds, but theyre somewhat necessary

and you call yourself a communist. fuck off man. class war now, abolish wage slavery.

>>600783858
I will not fight in your revolution to inslave people. I might fight to keep free people free.
You communists never valued Freedom of speach or religion or any.
because you can't make a decent case for communism so you take power by force.

>>600783719
That's a good point, I guess. The top down thing. Maybe I've been thinking about it the wrong way; I was just stuck on the idea that the workers themselves won't be demanding change.

Does the U.S. not seem to have a unique problem here, though? Its people have this (seemingly) unique idea that they're only "temporarily embarrassed millionaires," as Steinbeck put it. That quote was about why the workers won't be 'rising up,' but it still reflects their attitudes about top-down policy changes too. Americans seem to have a huge problem recognizing and voting for what's best for them.

>>600784740
>Shut up comrade. We know what's best for you. Do as you're told or report for reeducation.


Seriously OP. Who could be content working at fucking McDonalds? You need to stop reading philosophy and go the fuck outside. You would make a far better technocrat than Communist.

>>600783671
If by "the west" you mean not any of the socialist countries in south america, but just USA, USA's lapdog canada, the corrupt impoverished shithole of mexico, and the rest of the socialist nations in europe, then I'd say it's not looking too good for "capitalism", because the only reason the US still has any of its european cash horde from World War profiteering, and a functioning country, is because it has replaced huge chunks of its insanely unstable capitalism with socialism.

Neither pure idealistic capitalism nor pure idealistic communism works. Finding a successful economic model is more complicated and requires a soft blend of capitalist, socialist, and commnunist approaches where they best apply, on a case by case basis. Just like USA, just like the successful European nations, just like China.

This is why rigid adherence to ideologies always collapse.

>>600784338
Intellectuals are the rulers. They pretty much always have been. What's the issue here? History agrees with me. The Republic, 400 years before we started counting UP in years, deals with the same thing - where we find that the thinkers of the world, the hesitant leaders, were the ones best for for ruling.

But your concept of the 'ruling class' is ingrained with this sense of vertical hierarchy. There's no power difference between a ruler and a worker, just different social functions. Stalin didn't understand this, or want it.

>>600784687
American. This is an interesting quirk in history - the sudden move from intellectualism to pragmatism, which only finds itself in America, and only after the Marshal GI Bill that gave soldiers education for being in the military. The idea of "useful" vs. "not useful" is a modern construct, a fad if you will. It will pass.

Too lazy to read and too high to think on my own. But, how would a Communist government prevent itself from becoming corrupt? Or are you talking about just a communist market? Don't like the republic bullshit we have in murrica so sway me.

We need to know OP's race so we can decide if his view on class warfare is being tainted by white, hetero, cis privilege.

>>600784740
>>600785054
Not everyone is happy because of the money they make. It's not up for discussion. If you've found a path in life that is only of value because of your individual economic strength, and that truly makes you happy, what's the difference with a man who lives in a library and wants nothing more than to read?

>>600785133
They wouldn't. It's all about federalizing corruption rather than isolating it.

If you want the latter you need to read Kropotkin instead of Marx.

>>600775516
>Russia, Vietnam, china, north korea
>communism
>statist dictatorships
I seriously hope you don't think these people are communists
"communism is a stateless, classless, property-less society"
>communism isn't anti-statist you illiterate fuckwad

>>600785384
Fuck would federalizing corruption entail?

>>600785132
The difference is you seem to think you should get to make the decisions just because you fancy yourself a philosopher.

"Workers of the World Unite!" reads a bit different than "Workers of the World Listen to the Thinkers!" but then again Marx was a leech too. Didn't he and Engels pretty much live off the money generated by a sweat shop? At least Kropotkin gave up his nobility and went to live with the peasants.

>>600772871
>>600772871
Red Salute Comrade !!!

I'm member of Marxist organisation.

Marks21.info

>>600785677
What I mean is they have no safeguard to stop corruption from becoming the law of the land. They have a board of assholes like OP who call themselves the "dictatorship of the proletariat" who think they get to dictate policy to everyone around them.

Then when it turns into a giant prison state they say "Oh, that wasn't real communism we were still in the socialist stage!"

It never changes.

OP is not a fag.

Gotta get dat labor theory of value. Itsa money-commodity-money world, after all.

>>600775516
>ignores a 50+ year embargo on Cuba

Reading this thread, you kind of come off as an over intellectual douche, OP. No wonder nobody gives a shit about communism any more.

>>600784112

I assume you meant capitalism.

I'm sure a western collapse would be just as severe, if not more so. yet capitalism is strong, and has presided over great advances in living standards. there doesn't seem to be any real danger of collapse anytime soon.

Europe is more socialist, but their mixed-market is further left. they're not communist.

I still don't see how communism could work without being highly inefficient.

>>600784950
In my opinion, this is because of anti-Collectivist propaganda and the social quirk that "intellectualism and philosophy is not pragmatic, therefore useless". This is especially easy to see with STEM major students in college. What people fail to realise is that Philosophy is the root of all science and thinking, and even math. And if you're so conceited to think that Philosophy is no longer needed, then a good in-depth re-reading of basically all of history is required.

>>600785801
Your opinions are not based in fact. Marx was poor for the vast majority of his life, and didn't own anything more than the clothes on his back for most of his life. Engels was born into money, but wasn't particularly as passionate about the well-being of all people as Marx was.

Marx was not a leech; in fact, he led quite the tragic life, only to be etched out of history by people who misused his ideas. In 200 years, I'd wager Marx will be given the recognition he deserves. He is one of a handful of figured to be fully understood if you have any hope of comprehending why the world is where it is today.

>>600777796
AAAgggghhhhh!!!!!! Wtf!! XD

>>600785132
lol I studied the history of education when I was in school. The shocking overhaul in the values and approach to education as merely a useful tool for industrialists to create workers to labor in their companies after the turn of the century turned this country from a nation of ignorant farmers to a nation of people just smart enough to be dangerous.

>Lets take the classical education, and remove all the humanities that give people an ethical responsibility to use the knowledge we're giving them to not be psychopath monsters.

Nice job, industrialists.

>>600786302
Just because he's never worked a day in his life doesn't mean he knows what it's like to be a poor, struggling worker.

>Oh wait, it does? It does mean that? Okay then carry on.

>>600772871
What do you think about Titoism?

>>600786045
Using never is a surefire way to be wrong. Also, it's worth noting that your preconceived ideas of government are based on the past and not possibility.

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>>600783719
>This is something I'm still fumbling with in theory.
So communism is still only a theoretical construct? We have no examples to point to?

Ricardo Flores Magón wrote that he was inspired by the communism of the indigenous villages of his home state, Yucatán, but that comes to us at second hand and with no details.

>>600772871
I believe communism is inherently tyrannical and oppressive. Why would anyone want to be a communist?

>>600786795
And there's the same old song and dance. Ignore history! Listen to rhetoric! We'll do it right this time we promise!

>jewface.gif

>>600786424
As a STEM major, I kind of subscribed to that opinion of philosophy. Until I got into ethics and became intensely interested in utilitarianism - now I'd say philosophy has had an enormous impact on my life.

>>600779454
I'm a Canadian and I'm pretty sure we aren't communist (tired as ever so just taking a swing)

>>600787186
"Dwell on the past and lose an eye, but forget the past and lose both eyes."
- Russian proverb

>>600787161
what do yoy know about communism? and the obvius occidental propaganda

>>600772871
What are your arguments against a capitalist system with socialist leanings? No better system exists, in my mind.

>>600772871
What is it like living with parents and being 40?
>inb4 you live somewhere else
It doesn't count if it's still with their money

>>600785063

of course, pure capitalism is unsustainable. that's why it's combined with socialism to a greater or lesser degree. even the US economy is mixed market.

OP is a technocrat. He just hasn't realized it yet. Hopefully a good Rosicrucian will come along and shepherd him to his rightful pastures.

>>600773444
Holy fuck trips! Dude, nice job!

>>600787072
>So communism is still only a theoretical construct? We have no examples to point to?

China nigga. Read the thread.

>>600787072

communism actually does work on the small scale. it's easy for a tribe or village to be communist.

when you try it on the scale of a nation-state, you run into serious problems.

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>>600785063
>the corrupt impoverished shithole of mexico
Home of the wealthiest people on earth ("El Chapo" Guzmán, Carlos Slim, the other Carloses, Azcárraga), Mexico is as far from socialism as a country can get. It is a plutocracy where only the top corporations get welfare.

>>600787917
We're not allowed to point to the past examples because they usually end in totalitarianism and mass graves.

>>600788028
This is what Peter Kropotkin said. Unfortunately the Russian people fell for the Marxist bullshit.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Peter_Kropotkin

>>600787890
Yeah, he really worked hard at it. You going to have a plaque engraved and send it to him with a coupon for a free blowjob?

fuck sakes, how long are you fuckign 12 year olds going to be impressed when inevitable numbers roll by?

>2015
>holding to 19th century views that completely failed in the 20th century.
>OP is not only a faggot, but a fucktard.
/thread

>>600788326
Killjoy bitter faggot.

>>600788215
People like OP don't like Kropotkin and his theory of Mutual Aid/Anarcho-Communism because it diminishes the usefulness of a class of clowns who think they're better than the people who grow their food, build their houses or print their books.

You know, just like the bourgeoisie of today.

>>600787917
I've been following OP closely but, yes, I have been glossing over the uneducated ramblings of his AmeriKKKan detractors.

>>600772871
What books or resources should I look into to learn more about capitalism, socialism, and (especially) communism.

Genuinely interested.

>>600788029
yeah I was trying to say that... but wasn't very clear.

>>600787557
All I know is from a quick reading of the communist manifesto awhile ago. Dictatorship of the proletariat. Social education over home education. Violent overthrow. Abolition of religion and the confiscation of property of emigrants and rebels. I hear people say communism is a nice idea in theory but doesn't work in practice. After reading the manifesto I've always thought it was a bad idea start to finish

>>600788756
You're smarter than OP, my friend. And he has a a philosophy degree and probably six figures of debt.

OP there are 5 countries in this world that are still considered themselves to be communist. Best Korea, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam and China

however they aren't fully communist like how it was written by the homeboy marx. cuba and NK are maybe the ones closest to that but even in NK were private enterprise is suppose to be illegal there are still private businesses and stuff like street merchants n shit which is suppose to be illegal there but ppl have been doing it since they had that famine thing or w/e.
but yeah communism is rip in peace

>>600786302
This is a projection of your own feelings of inferiority and has no merit in the eyes of any academician. This is just another stratum of this fucked up class society. If we could break it down, it wouldn't just be limited to academia.

>>600786463
Thanks anon.

>>600786485
I don't see the point you're trying to make.

>>600787072
Of course it is. Economics are, at its very roots, a philosophical field of study. It is only after World War Two and the push for pragmatism that we see Economics look more like a business class than an upper eschelon of thinking. Anyone studying Economics right now can tell you this. You don't learn the history of Economics, you learn about the logistics of it.

But as early as the 1770s when it became a field of study, it has been primarily in the hands of thinkers and intellectuals, starting with Adam Smith, and leading up to JM Keynes.

So yes, Communism, and conversely, every form of economy is still up in the air as far as philosophically.

>>600787186
This is an extremely limited viewpoint.

>>600787352
I'm glad to see this. People who don't believe that Philosophy has any use in the world or impact on their lives are ignorant to history and thought. Not to talk down on them of course. But there is overwhelming evidence that points toward it; not away.

>>600787557
Allow me to gather my thoughts. There's a ton of posts to reply to.

>>600787561
I have no safety net. I haven't seen or heard from my parents in at least 10 years, and I paid for my education and my means of survival myself. It wasn't easy, but difficulty is relative, isn't it?

>>600787677
I'd argue that pure Capitalism is the only form of economically sustainable Capitalism, but it's not good for the people at the bottom of the ladder. Socialist tendencies try to fix this, and make Capitalism impure, and that raping of Smith's ideal is unsustainable.

>>600787890
I hadn't noticed.

>>600788120
Irrelevant and factually unsound.

fuck post too long

>>600787557
My bad, sent to wrong person. Meant for the post above yours

>>600789145
Yes, the genocides committed by Marxists is always irrelevant isn't it?

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OP is a clueless faggot who thinks his college propaganda theory beats reality

>>600788120
So does every new form of government. I mean shit, do these spring daffodils honestly think establishing and propping up capitalism hasn't, and doesn't continue to put countless bodies in the ground everywhere the pursuits of US national or corporate interests go? Shit. Imposing your will upon people by force is messy. Always is.

Lucky for USfags fragile daffodil minds, they usually outsource that carnage to other countries so they don't have to be bovvered. then they can discount those who do see it as activists or hippies or some such convenient boogeyman.

I'm a Leninist, and a charter member of a branch of the CPUSA. I'm a union worker tend to be on the militant side. Too many of the people I see curiously strolling into communism are really just liberal yuppies. My real concerns are over regulation of large corporations and how they handle their finances. I don't believe in taxing the working class to death to support the state. I believe in diminishing the role of the state to that of a watchdog

>>600789685
Thoughts on OP saying that workers shouldn't be in charge of labor unions?

>>600789685
>Leninist

"Vladimir Ilyich, your concrete actions are completely unworthy of the ideas you pretend to hold.
Is it possible that you do not know what a hostage really is — a man imprisoned not because of a crime he has committed, but only because it suits his enemies to exert blackmail on his companions? … If you admit such methods, one can foresee that one day you will use torture, as was done in the Middle Ages.
I hope you will not answer me that Power is for political men a professional duty, and that any attack against that power must be considered as a threat against which one must guard oneself at any price. This opinion is no longer held even by kings... Are you so blinded, so much a prisoner of your own authoritarian ideas, that you do not realise that being at the head of European Communism, you have no right to soil the ideas which you defend by shameful methods … What future lies in store for Communism when one of its most important defenders tramples in this way every honest feeling?"

-Peter Kropotkin, letter to Lenin Dec. 1920.

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fUCK YOU OP.

>>600789801
Bullshit. Look at the teamsters: too big and self serving. They don't give a shit about the workers

Capitalism definitely spurred on the greatest progress of humans of all time for the past 1 to 2 centuries. However.
There needs to be very strict regulation and a way to better distribute wealth AND, at the same time, create incentive for more innovation.

I feel we have reached almost the highest reaches of human ingenuity and now it is time to start to equalize the wealth, at least enough so people aren't starving to death, because there is enough food to feed everyone.

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OP is a fagget

>>600788028
>>600788215
Kropotkin posits a way for it to work on a national scale in his work, The Conquest of Bread. You just break a nation up into small communes (similarly to how cities on the East Coast of America were set up) and allow them to trade among other communes.

>>600788331
I so enjoy this American anachronism - you may know what you're talking about, but my personal experiences prove you wrong! My 12th grade history teacher said so!

>>600788472
Mutual Aid is a fantastic read that more people should look into. People realise that at the higher echelons of social evolution, we are more likely to cooperate than to compete - but we still cling to competition in the same way that religious people still cling to God: as a way to justify their life or explain the unexplainable.

>>600788690
I'll reply shortly.

>>600788756
>>600789014
>his opinion is more in line with mine, and not this person whose opinion I don't like, so you're right.

Also, I made it out of school with no debt.

>>600789381
Deaths happen under any and every banner. Christianity, Capitalism, X dogmatism. Yes, it's completely irrelevant.

>>600789421
You should read the thread before you post your opinion as though it's fact.

>>600790265
And feudalism before that. And serfdom before that. And slavery before that. It doesn't matter what drove us to where we are as much as it's about where we're going to go.

>>600790254
Is the CPUSA worth a shit anymore? It seems to me since the Bush years they just endorse Democrats (including Obama). Why don't they run candidates?

>>600790489
Not really. They backed Hillary first. And are more concerned with the rights of migrant workers and outreach abroad. The old guard are some very inspiring people. One of our sponsors marched with Martin Luther king. One of my members fought in vietnam. It's the younger "intellectuals" like OP, who pervert the party because they are detached from the reality of being a member of the working class. We have our feet on the ground and they have their heads in the clouds. We tend to agree more with the libertarians on social issues.

>>600789145
>I'd argue that pure Capitalism is the only form of economically sustainable Capitalism, but it's not good for the people at the bottom of the ladder. Socialist tendencies try to fix this, and make Capitalism impure, and that raping of Smith's ideal is unsustainable.

pure capitalism is unsustainable because first, it's too harsh on those at the bottom. it crushes people between its gears, which ferments revolt. second, it leads to excessive power of oligarchs.

I don't see why capitalism alloyed with socialism is unsustainable. it's an efficient engine combined with social support and constraints, and it has worked.

>>600790265
it was a pretty quick burning shooting star though wasn't it.

...and if it weren't for Europe sending nearly all its money to USA to fund the war effort, the US would not be sitting on 90% of the worlds money, convinced that it's really it's ideological superiority that's unrivaled.

Being in the luckiest geographic location during WWII made the US the affluent beast it is today, not any magic formula. Without Europe suiciding itself, USA is just the same laughable agrarian burg it was before WWI.

>>600789685
I had the... pleasure... of meeting with some members of the CPUSA. Suffice it to say that I do not accept them as actual Communists. Perhaps in name only. They seem to only want to better themselves because they feel oppressed.

>>600790177
I've always been intrigued in this breakup between Kropotkin and Lenin. Both are men I have studied intensively, and I appreciate certain aspects of both of their ideals. I always enjoyed this quote, and only wish that I could read the response.

>>600788690
There are hundreds of books and essays written on the subject, but some staples are:

Kropotkin - The Conquest of Bread, Mutual Aid, Fields, Factories and Workshops
Lenin - The State and Revolution
Marx - The Communist Manifesto (and if you're interested in the economic side of it, the 2500+ page book Das Kapital)
Proudhon - Property is Theft
Sartre - Existentialism is a Humanism

But that's just Communists. There are many Socialist works (that led up to Communism) as well.

Read up on Claude de Saint-Simon (vast shortening of his name), Charles Fourier, and Robert Owen. Owen even created utopian communes in Europe!

The Worldly Philosophers by Robert Heilbroner is a great delve into the history of economic philosophy and history. I'd recomment you start with that. There's tons of info on further readings. I would very highly recommend you read this first. Highly. Highly.

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omg op you're so brilliant

please tell us more

>>600791291
hm. looks like the road through Borrego.

>>600791658
lol

I'm rich as fuck. Where did my money come from anon?

>protip: it wasn't the magical money tree

>>600791324
Communism isn't a movement for the workers by the workers anymore. Had you maybe jumped off the ground into the clouds for a moment, you'd realise that that part of Communism is long gone. The thinkers lead everything. That's just how it is. History tells us that much, as does present-day. The workers are supposed to see a change in standard of living (for the better), not become something they were never meant to be.

>>600791847
Read the thread. There's 165~ posts.

>>600772871
why doesn't communism work?

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OP, please.

Ok, what do you think of the native americans, some who credit as the first communists?? Also what do you think about anarcho-communism? Its awesome to meet another comerade!

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>>600791291

>>600791634
I agree with you. I left after occupy wallstreet. I could not stand being around so many entitled brats. Communism will make a comeback in this century, and it will rise in western europe. But in the US? No. American communists are just wannabes

How does it feel to have your money devalued to nothing fucko pinko commie?

>>600792235
God, anon.

Jesus rewards rich people with shitloads of money, because they are better than everyone else. The bible states that pretty clearly.

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Having been born and raised in a communist country (Czechoslovakia), I can tell you that OP is an idiot, and wasted his money on his "education"

>>600787557
What I have for this isn't so much an argument as much as it is a thought. If you take a free market, and add Socialist policies, there will eventually be an advantage and wealth gap caused by the "Capitalists" at the "top" of the system and the "Socialists" at the "bottom" of the system. So to fix this, more Socialist policies are adopted. Maybe WPA-type projects, health care, education, transit - more and more until eventually, there's more Socialism than Capitalism. And from there it becomes a Socialist state. And Socialism, much in the same way is a prevolution of Communism.

Sorry it took me a while to respond, I had forgotten. I blame the alcohol.

200 million people died for the great capitalist america.

>>600792237
Maybe there would be a line of genocide and abuse of power longer than a communist breadline if that wasn't always the case.

>>600792420
The first known european communists that managed to document what they were doing were christian fundamentalists that came to be known as the Diggers, and several others. They were increasingly successful in their efforts, but Kings were increasingly not pleased about their loss of power over them, and they were disbanded over and over again.

Nowadays, christians think jesus is a capitalist, because no one has actually bothered to read the bible beyond eighty million begats.

>>600792237
The problem with communist "leadership" is that they are arrogant. They think they personally are worthy of leadership and that they know better. OP is the problem. Communism needs it's Cincinnatus. It needs a good man who just wants to see us succeed

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don't forget to moisturize your wrists and ankles, because those slave chains chafe

>>600785132
You kind of say "American" derisively here OP. Are you an American? Do you speak any foreign languages?

>>600793360
"The problem with leadership is that they are arrogant."

Not like capitalist leadership right?

Holy fuck anon. my sides just imploded into a supermassive black side singularity

>>600792383
>>600792393
I shouldn't expect more out of the uneducated, and yet I do.

>>600792420
The native Americans aren't something I really deal with. They weren't industrialised, which is where all of the problems come from. As far as Anarchist Communism, I am well-versed with Kropotkin's works. I have a few misgivings about some of his thoughts, but that's true for any system I've read about.

>>600792496
Well met, anon.

>>600792596
I support the abolishment of currency.

>>600792849
Nothing says truth like a personal anecdote.

>>600793267
Anarchist Catalonia.

>>600793360
There is nothing wrong with arrogance paired with competence.

>>600793385
Are you trying to imply we aren't already slaves to hourly wages and salaries? Or to the people that give them to us? We are all slaves for as long as we devote the strength of our arm to anyone other than ourselves.

>>600793407
I am fluent in English, French, Spanish, and I am learning Russian. Those four languages are paramount in understanding Continental Philosophy.

>>600793644
>murder everyone not on board
>hooray, we capitalist now
>look how superior my ideology was to win the contest!

There has so far been no argument that has been made against communism that doesn't also apply against capitalism.

>>600794112
Sorry, I forgot to list German. But I don't know much of German. Also immensely important to Continental Philosophy. Being fluent in Spanish and French, I could also probably read Italian pretty well.

>>600793360
We had Eugene Debs. He did more good than the rest of the Socialist/Communist/Left leaders combined.

I'm surprised no Bob Avakian cultists have shown up in this thread. Did Bobby take away their computer privileges?

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People like OP think they know what's best for you. Give them all your money, and they will give you back what they think you deserve (after they take their cut)

You fucking cocksucker OP. Die in a fire.

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>>600794112
What do you think about bitcoin?

What do you see in Mexico?

>>600794393
That's cool OP. I know Russian and German at intermediate levels, and I want to learn French and Spanish. How do you learn your languages? Self study or classes?

This is OP. I'd like to take this time to thank everyone who's posted constructively in this thread.

I've made a few of these threads before, but this is by and large the most successful and civil discussion I've had here. Thank you all for your opinions, questions, and the bits of information that I was not aware of.

Thank you, truly.

>>600794899

OP WTF>>>>>>600794728

>>600794409
Debs has been dead a long time. Nobody in my club even knows who he was. Kate Mullaney? Sure. Debs? No.

>>600794899
That was a charming post you're welcome OP

>>600794899
Your welcome, thanks for the resources (I asked for the books), and checked. Night.

What's it like being a limp-wristed, pencil-dicked, useless beta cuck motherfucker who wasted thousands on an "education" and can't solve his own problems, and therefore thinks he's entitled to have someone else solve them?

America needs more Baader and Meinhoff and less OP.

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Pic related. It's OP

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>>600772871
OP, riddle me this:

Isn't it just possible that whatever system of government or economy that we employ, and whatever theory we expect our policies to conform to, are just arrogant delusions?

Take any old wisdom later reaffirmed by modern science. Isn't the character of old wisdom rather naive in comparison? Yet is its accuracy, even with respect to what we learned modern people understand to be the true natural order underlying that old wisdom, not divorced completely from those features which both make it prosperous and its host prosperous?

>inb4 extreme cultural relativist

>>600794728
I'm not well-read on modern day economics in Mexico, so I don't know.

What do you want to know about bitcoin? As a form of future currency? Currency is an antiquity based on a world with a trillion times more scarcity problems than we face today. We no longer use money to value things based on their scarcity; instead, money is an incentive. I support the abolishment of obsolete technologies.

Please note, I am not saying that scarcity does not exist. It's just far less prevalent than it was prior.

>>600794819
I'm jealous.

I actually learned French in school, Spanish from working with native Spanish speakers, and Russian, I am trying to learn from Rosetta Stone. But my motivation (or lack thereof) is making that a slow process.

>>600795497
Read the thread.

>>600795564
Agreed

>>600794899
No sweat Comrade, happy to contribute.

>>600795193
I agree he has. I'm just saying he was the best, most genuine example of leadership we've had in America. Which is probably why he said something to the affect of: "I'm not here to save you. If I lead you out of the desert someone else will just lead you back in. You have to save yourselves."

You should teach them about Debs if they don't know.

>>600795704
Hey if you know French already get Assimil for Russian and German, it will blow your mind and Rosetta Stone sucks. Happy trails OP!

>>600772871
Fellow comrade reporting in! Member of the communist youth in Austria.

Where do you live? Do you think your party/organisation is doing enough work?

>>600772871

Hey OP, how much money did you wast^H^H^H^H spend on your "degrees"?

>>600794728
I see a lot of 55 gallon drums turning up in the desert with skeletons of foreign tourists from all kinds of countries in them.

And I see your retarded neighbor to the north all up in arms because some muslims in the desert on the far side of the world are killing some other muslims in their way, and it makes me think their priorities are a little bit transparent.

>>600795326
>>600795417
>>600795752
Maybe I'll come back tomorrow.

>>600795845
Thanks for the tip anon. I'll look into it.

>>600796062
Money has no intrinsic value to someone who doesn't believe it to be worth anything. Therefore, none. You are trying to hold me to your archaic beliefs that money is worth something because someone told you it was.

>>600775516
Uneducated piece of shit detected

>>600772871
What do you think of that faggot Maoist Rebel News? Is he legit?

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>>600795791
Think I'll do that.

>>600772871
>inb4 op can't greentext

>>600772871
>>>/pol/41970687

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>>600772871

>>600796279

> Money has no intrinsic value to someone who doesn't believe it to be worth anything. Therefore, none. You are trying to hold me to your archaic beliefs that money is worth something because someone told you it was.

It's just a number. How much? Don't hide behind words. How much do you make a month? How much do you spend a month? Numbers numbers numbers. They don't exist but they're important.

How many people did Stalin kill? How many people did Mao kill? Pol Pot? Kim Il Sung?

Numbers > words any day pinko-bro.

>>600796007
I don't associate with other Communists.

I may alienate myself here from the people that have supported me throughout this thread, but for the most part Communism is a "trend" for the new liberally-minded youth of America. Many "Communists" I've met are nothing more than SJWs who want everyone to be equal on a social level, not an economic one. In short, many people who claim to be Communists give the actual political Communists a bad name and make it look like a suburban white movement.

>>600772871
how does it feel to be 14

Nobody wants to talk about the Naxalites? How about the Kurds?

>>600772871
how does it feel to be underage?

>>600796666
Checked. Also, irrelevant. Do you have a point to make?

>>600777392
>military manufacturing and funding handled by China
Wtf have you been reading? We would never allow this. Yes we are heavily in debt to them but you seriously look at things at too shallow a level. Our situation in China is mutually beneficial. And 99% of our weapons, from 5.56 NATO rounds to A10 warthogs and Spectre gunships to our naval ships are all domestically produced. And military funding is procured from taxes and govt grants - NOT Chinese trade imbalance. God this just proves how shallow, ignorant, and cognitive dissonance prone you communist/libertarian/socialist/anarchist/any extemist sheep are. Just becaus you follow something "alternative" doesn't make you any smarter, more unique,
Or better informed than any other pathetic fringe group. Try-hard faggot.

>>600796860
They're both revisionist.

>>600772871

How does it feel to not know science?

>>600772871
what's it like being wrong all the time?

>>600796688
See, you say that and I agree with you. But you still come off as a pseudo - intellectual with no real grasp of working struggle. Outside of your books and classes.

>>600796666
wow. drink some more coffee anon.

see if your heart or your brain explodes first.

>>600796650
Frankfurt School weren't real Marxists, faggot. How are people who know nothing about Marxism, never critique the base, rely on Hegelian dialectics, combine Historical Materialism with Jewish mysticism, and who think communism is one big orgy good Marxists?

>>600796888

Yes, that you refuse to talk about numbers. I know that you don't believe they exist, but most people live in reality.

How much? How many? Numbers numbers, tell us, Pinky.

Your refusal to answer except by way of evasion tells anyone not sharing in your dogma that you're just a religious fanatic and communism your religion.

Comunisim: the heroin of the educated.

Fuck off red scum!

>>600796688
Like I said you're a technocrat you just don't know it yet.

Give it a few years and you'll be circle jerking with other people who over paid for a philosophy degree about replacing the useless workers with robots and "purging" the world of the "undesirables".

>>600772871
Why doesn't communism work?

>>600796734
>>600796886
>>600797092
>>600797093
You could learn a good deal from reading the thread.

>>600797177
Pseudo-intellectual is a poor choice of words, considering that anyone and anyone who says anything can be labeled as such. Pseudo-intellectualism doesn't refer to someones' intellectual capacity, only their motivation for demonstrating such. I feel as though I've sufficiently emphasised my love for knowledge.

>>600797425
This doesn't even make sense.

>>600796895
I was so close. The thread almost ended without someone like this shitposting.

>>600797524
I highly doubt it, but thanks for your input.

Communists ITT: If you saw a legit chance to take up arms and start shooting and hanging bougies from trees, how quickly would you piss yourselves and cry about democratic methods being best and how pacifism is the only way

>>600797958
Anyone who believes that pacifism is the only way is living in an idealistic world even more lofty than mine. Violence isn't always the answer. But most of the time it's a pretty good one.

>>600797831

> This doesn't even make sense.

If by "this" you mean communistic dogma, you're correct.

Capitalists will sell you the rope you hang them with but then you won't be able to buy more rope. Or make it. Or figure how to make it, considering your degree.

>>600797958
Better question: How many of the communists in this thread would end up being strung up with their rich families?

>>600796688
As opposed to a suburban white movement of the 19th and C20th, communism was the origional hipster movement anon, Marx fucked around on his wife and got engels to 'finance his project', he used to wander around camdem getting pissed.

The modern sjw is an outcome of Marxist philosophy laid down trotskyism who basically believed that the way to social change in the west was by changing dialogue, basically through advertising. You think that America invented the advertising industry of today? Nope that was the communist party in Russia. It's the perfect product if you see it from the right engle.

>>600797958
I'm armed.
Might be on a watch list or two

>>600772871
Why you working for Swiss Bankers instead of having a real job?

IMO the USA has the best democracy that you can buy for money.

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ya, communism is so great that people get on boats in Miami and paddle to Cuba

>>600796895
>would never
hypothetical

>wtf have you been reading?

My technical manuals, faggot, welcome to 2003. We have allowed it since the late 90s and we continue to allow it. Nearly all the parts I installed on our fighters were shipped directly from there. My best bud in the Army, same story on his tanks.

>situation mutually beneficial

lol, typical idiot, completely unaware of the difference between Chinas short & long term economic and military stance on the US, even though they've made it public repeatedly over the last 3 decades.

i can't even bring myself to read further retardation in that paragraph.

>>600798226
This thread is doing just fine without your ill-informed opinions. If you want to contribute fine, but as it stands, you're only making yourself look ignorant.

>>600798249
In my studies, I've never come across evidence of this. Not to say it's false.

>>600798154
Still, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Is anyone actually a fan of the propaganda, mass killings of undesirables, and sick music to come from all "communist" nations, nevermind the fact that none of had to do with actual communism? The way I see it, communism is just an gimmick to push your crazy plans under the claim that its for the common good, and holy fuck does that get shit done, especially after the value of human life is completely null and void.

>>600797425
I hope for your sake you are high as fuck.

Because man you are typing like a teenager who just did a mountain of speed.

>>600772871
Communists are a bunch of pussies to scared of someone with a better idea and making more money than they can tax.

>>600798662
Just because it's catchy doesn't mean it's true. Violence is a necessary part of the past, the present, and the future.

OP is a faggot, not a commie.

There might be a couple of real red-blooded commies in here. They're faggots too.

>>600798839
Care to elabourate? As it stands, this just looks like an opinion with no factual basis.

>>600798550

> This thread is doing just fine without your ill-informed opinions. If you want to contribute fine, but as it stands, you're only making yourself look ignorant.

Ah, deflections then adhoms. Next you'll run off the computer, fingers in ears and shouting LALALALA.

>>600798956
I hope for your sake you aren't serious.

>>600798531
yeah, that must be it, not, you know, being in an isolated island community cut off from trade with the world for half a century... surely that has nothing to do with anything.

derpity doo

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workers of the world unite

>>600798948
>Care to elabourate? As it stands, this just looks like an opinion with no factual basis.

You do not debate communists, you kill them and sell their body parts on the open flesh and organ market. The rest you sell as compost. That is the only way they can contribute to society.

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Pic related. People play these awesome fun games all day long in communist North Korea. Who wouldn't love that?

>>600799066

LOL, who's not making sense now?