I replied to her. Awaiting response

>>580213558
Bump

>>580213630
Bump

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>>580213558
Fucking golden. What next?

How about if you had the opportunity to feel or measure?

seems k to go ahead

>>580213558
Ask her who she would tell. And what would she say.
A pleasure for any woman? Like you mom?

>>580213741
Do you want to feel and reach? You know...If you want.

>>580213741
"Haha, well now you know where to come if Dad ever gets boring!"

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>>580213741
>>580213824
Exactly this, good sir. And if shit gets weird, remember: there's always the alcohol cop out.

>>580213816
Maybe...just maybe

>>580213741
Would you feel it and then tell me if I'm bigger than dad

>>580213873
Ooo i dont mind this one

>>580213895
She fucking wants it

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that was the mom

This is no longer an erotic story. Playing with the big boys now

>>580213741
god damn she's literally asking for it.

>>580213741
>bigger than dad's
...wait, what? Is this your sister - she fucking your dad? What kind of psycho-fuck family is this???

>>580213949
She's totally into it, just like we said last thread
You're doing great anon!

>>580213973
This isn't the mum, she's a fairly well known star from Southern Belle dot com

>>580213883
What about. "Is that something you'd wanna do? Feel it?"

what did you send to her?

>>580213873
This is best so far

>>580214078
Best thread ever!!!

>>580214031
yeah really need someone to recap the original thread here wtf is going on

>>580214031
It's his mother

>>580214073
He sent her a dick pic

>>580214078
Thanks

>>580214072
Do it

>>580214050
not well enough for you to give us the name it seems.

you got me

>>580214072
Fuck it dude, you've gone this far. Maybe don't say "feel it?" just leave it at the first part.

>>580214164
Why would I want to give you the name? Learn to use the internet, kid.

oi post the dick pic again god damn it

>580214131
Yw anon
It still leaves an exit strategy where he can say jk

PLEASE TELL ME ITS A STEPMOM

PLEASE TELL ME ITS A STEPMOM

>>580214218
>>580214298
Nope. My birth mother, I came out now it's time to cum in

>>580214298
Nope, is good ol fashioned WINCEST

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>>580213741
I'm the anon that suggested "bigger than dad's" and the guy that fucks his cousin and mom

Say "only one way to find out lol ;)"

Add the lol and winky face!

cmon op we need results

>>580214215
probably so you don't appear to be some lazy troll? That's like saying "oh I definitely know that girl from this hazy, potato quality cellphone shot, ur fucked op we r lejun"

Anyway, continue with your texting, >>580213741

>>580214357
Amen brother!

>>580214381
I wish I could fuck my cousin..

>>580214357
Reply this! >>580214381

I don't understand.
Is this a recap thread or do people actually believe this is happening real time and are rolling?

Bump for this guy

>>580214381
Went with this. Wait for reply

>>580213741
OP MORE

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>>580214363

>>580214501
Fuck off! Don't ruin this spiderfag

>>580214468
This is happening real time

MOAR or nah?

>>580214468
no ones rolling /b/ is trying to help him get laid.

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>>580214471
Thank you! God speed anon!

Reposting my first encounter with my mom:

First mom sex story:
>Be 22, finish college, no work yet, have to live at home
> Sister is 20 and living in her college campus
> mom is now 50ish, she won't tell me her true age; dad is 55 with Erectile disfunction
> auntie got married and now is getting some Indian dick
> Uncle moved to another state with cousin, so I'm lonely and horny too
> random day in summer 2012
> Mom tells me and dad she wants to go see some underground cavers, and we make the drive
> 6 hours later in some mountains in Virginia
> we go inside the cavers, real pretty crystals and took pictures
> we have to watch our step and mom is in front of me and I notice she's still got a fine 8/10 ads
> Narrow corners means we are back to back, and I feel her ass against my crotch
> her ass is soft and plum in those yoga pants she was wearing
> I get a bulge, mom notices and winks
> I want to fuck my mom
> we enter a large underground opening, tour guide says he will turn off the lights so we can see how dark it gets underground
> Mom rubs my dick with wet fingers for a good 30 seconds
> lights come back on, and I'm pre cumin
> tour ends, we go to our hotel
> dad is tired and goes to bed since he drove 6 hours
> me and mom go into the bathroom...

Her ass is a big smaller than this, but she's got the whole hornt soccer mom look to her still after all these years.

>>580214550
Post a pic of your mom, so we can see what she looks like

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>>580214501
BMW Car Thread?

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>>580214501
I don't think I've ever been more invested in an anon's welfare, so you can get rekt faggot

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>>580214672

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>>580214663

First time with mom in 2012
> We go to the bathroom while dad slept, I left the TV on for noise
> I kiss my mom and she kisses back, first time kissing her, no words can express the feels of wrong
> she gets on her knees and pulls down my pants for a blow job
> mom can suck a dick like a champ
> pull out before I blow my load
> I tell mom to get on the bathroom counter and I eat her hairy pussy out
> I am not found of her but we didn't know this was going to happen
> she cums in two minutes flat, mom had not cummed in months
> she bends over the counter and I put my whole dick inside
> mom's pussy was tight, her and dad didn't fuck as often anymore
> fuck my mom like a dog in heat
> mom moans loud and I freak out, so I cover her mouth with a hand towel
> I'm fucking her raw pussy with a towel on her mouth like a horse, or a pet
> mom looks at her dominated reflection and her eyes go back, she's cumming hard
> I pull out and grab her ass cheeks and I cum with an assjob.
> mom smiles in lust and says "that's my baby"

The whole thing took like 10 minutes since we were freaking out about getting caught. Now I fuck my mom at least once a week and she's a freak, wanna hear stories?

>>580214651
More than getting him laid we are trying to get him with mommy!!
Btw op your mom is the best.

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>>580214663

>>580213558
do you have the message before this one? I would like to save the full collection

it r my fetish

>>580214550
>>580214651
Somehow I really doubt that since OP is now rolling for his own response and someone else posted the second screenshot.

>>580214810
I'm on my phone. He posted faster than i

>>580214782
oh shittt is it going down?

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>>580214782
Holy shit, keep going anon

>>580214782
Bump mang, I'm so excited for you!

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>>580214782
Christ she's playin hard to get

>>580214782
Oh shit nigger

post normal clothed pics of your moms, im curious what the look like lol

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>>580214672
fucking faggot you let me down

>>580214782
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, im unsure of how this might pan out now. Put a little much on her maybe

>>580214782
Fucking Oedipus

>>580214887
Bump for this

>>580214874
No she's not. She seems totally into it!

>>580214810
Some else started this thread, OP just found it before making another

>>580214782
I wish you godspeed anon!
complete your mission

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>>580214782
I wish I could kiss you you brave motherfucker! I love you!

>>580214782
The worst ending for this could be your dick turns out to be smaller.

Whyboner.jpg

>>580214953
You right. You're a cooler head than I. What're gonna say next?

>>580213558
What you have to do OP is send her a pic of your cock drizzled in cum

>>580214852
>>580214968
That sounds reasonabble, then.
I see.

The bitch is fakin.
Trust me I'm an engineer

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>>580214901

>>580214758
Yes.

>>580214987
Seconded

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>>580214782
Post her reply before going any further! We need to analyze it for best results!

>>580214908
after this, he'll have to kill his father in order to properly replace him. However, it was always inevitable. Don't fucking ask Tiresias shit unless your willing to accept what he has to say

Is OP trying to fuck his mum?

>>580215128
Yes

>>580215128
Yes you faggot!

>>580215128
Short story: yes.
Long story: yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss.

Imagine this: Your mom is figuring out the twisted fuck you are and never really wanted it at all

>>580215128
no he's trying fuck his dad

>>580215128
Yes.

>>580215195
Don't say shit like that

tbh the worst thing that can happen to you at this point is her never talking about it ever again after this. You literally can't lose at this juncture.

>>580215195
maybe shes a tease. she's just gunna make fun of him for it
>hey anon, remember that time you tried to fuck me?

I r losing her. She needs convincing. She's into it but its taboo for her.

No reply yet anon?

>>580215153
>>580215168
>>580215187
>>580215218
>>580215228
That's fucking gross.
I hope you anons are only here for the lels

Imagine if his dad is the one texting him

>>580215338
post screens /b/ro

>>580215125
9/10 what does the sphinx say?

OP you about to get MOMZONED

>>580215338
Taboo how? Post caps?

>>580215338
send her a short vid of you strokin

>>580215338
Post the pics of the conversation

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>>580215338
Post her reply pic!!


Anyways, my OC
It all started in my mom's side of the family. My grandpa messed around with his siblings, and eldest daughter: my mom. Then my mom's siblings (my aunt and uncle) fuck each other too, my mom knew this and was fine because she had my grandpa all to herself, as the stories go.

Anyways, they all married and my grandpa passed away but the incest continued with me and my cousin. I'm sure my mom fucks my uncle and he fucks my other aunt too, but that's their business. Me and my cousin heard them fuck during family gatherings.

So one night when we were 12 and on the basement we started to touch each other. I was a porn addict at a young age so I guide her through it. But being young meant that we were stupid so my uncle caught us and told my mom.

They laughed and left us alone, I guess they saw themselves in us. So me and my cousin continued.

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>>580215064

>>580215434
vids just gonna turn her off if it's as taboo to her as OP just said it is

>>580215434
DO IT!

>>580215408
Taboo because she's his mum, ya dingus. Breaking the taboo's half the fun.

>>580215404
I am atm

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>>580215480

pics of your mother?

>>580215338
You might have to let it go for now so she can realize how much she really wants it.
Hard to say since we can't see the replies

>>580215263

you're a shitstain and your mother probably doesn't think like you do. She will tell your father and he will fuck you up. you're destroying the family just because you're a twisted incest fucktard. I'd kill myself if I had your disease

>>580215531
lol yeah I realized how fuckin stupid that was after I sent it

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>>580215470

First experience:
>in basement, both 12, someone's party
>We were watching comedy central until the Girls Gone Wild commercials started airing
>This might be weird, better change it to the Discovery Channel
>Animals mating, oh shit.
>G4 video games channel, alright
> Late night screen savers, Dead or Alive extreme beach volleyball
> god dammit
> "you don't have to keep changing the channels, I know about sex" says my cousin
>find out she's a perv, and we end up doing the whole "show me yours, I'll show you mine"
>I am too horny and I ask her if I can touch hers, she agrees.
> Sweet young smooth pussy, my dick is diamonds.
> She grabs my shaft and says it's too hot
> I suggest we grind and the door opened
> my uncle caught us and went back upstairs
> my mom came back and both started laughing, then uncle went back upstairs
> mom says: "this is a secret, do not tell anyone else. Do you love your cousin?"
> YES! We both replied then mom pulled us both into the couch
> she instructed us how to grind properly and went back upstairs
> we both came on each other. Best feel in the world

My family is very incestuous

>>580215556
uh oh uh oh uh oh whats goin on

hey you should try to get a pic of your mom. Come up with something a little more elegant than the old "I've shown you mine, show me yours" though

>>580215556
Post caps so we know whats going on

>>580215502
she liked the pic, which is what sparked her interest. if she's horny, she wont be able to resist seeing a big cock. no face in vid, but she knows that beautifu dick is her sons

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we believe in you op, don't give up..

>>580215338
Quit texting her and walk up to her with your dick out. Go close the deal in person.

say you both are adult ,and nobody is getting hurt so it ok

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>>580215470

>>580214758
skgjhg fuckyes.

>>580215556
Should have asked if her if she wanted to feel it, that's what you get for beating around the bush.
Have any pics of your mom?

>>580215578
nailed it. plz report consequences OP

>>580215676
OP's 50 minutes away from her atm, doesn't often see her, said so in previous thread

>>580215698
Earlier cap? All of it.

>>580215698
Kill yourself

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>>580215578
>disease

>>580215698
you fucked up

>>580215698
Just push through, Dont give up OP. Your on the cusp of fuckign your mum. dont give up now or i will personally take a flight to america and slap your bitch ass.

>>580215698
omg...this just got next level

>>580215698
Not with other older women. You have fantasized about her your whole life.

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>>580215698
Op is trolling us

Did no one else notice the fact that OP is a 15 year old looking faggot with gigantic holes in his ears and a shirt straight off the clearance rack at the mall?

>>580215698
Need all the story bro, and i reckon you could get away with going over to her place and "talk it out" but push her into it as she clearly will be into it

>>580215698
My suggestion? Take that profile pic out, you don't want to constantly remind her its her son who she is thinking about fucking, and with that pic with your face in int you are doing exactly that

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>>580215698
Soldier on
Your almost there

Tell her you'll be there in 50 minutes to fuck her brains out

>>580215556
umm.. you would probably need to bait her at this point. If shes interested she is interested. I would probably back down and start talking about sex in general until she is more comfortable

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>>580215698
Dude, keep workin it man, you're on the right track.

>>580214874
This.

She's well aware of what's going on, and either incredibly disturbed by it or is reluctant otherwise to have sex with her son.

I, too, would pretend to be oblivious to it.

>>580215698
she totally have desire for your D, she just need to overcome moral reasons.. you're getting there, post caps more often anon

lol hes not on the cusp of anything, mom already laid down the law about it being taboo.

>>580215840
you just described a human being
good job on your powers of observation with your eyeballs and stuff

>>580215698
>>580215742
Jump in car and make the drive NOW. Text along the way but get to her asap while its still possible

>>580215840
Body mutilation correlates with mental illness.
Who would've known?

>>580215881
I wont to say that she's on the more open end of it at this point. Possibly may recommend some sort of therapy if anything, but yeah.

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>>580215698
Keep posting her replies! But you are doing wonderfully! Keep pressing on, tell her she's beautiful and that you have always loved and lusted after her. Be brave! She really wants you!

I'd send her another dick pic, but this one with pre-cum.

>>580215904
Of course it's taboo. That's the fun of it.

>>580215698
oh, no, nevermind, you seem to be doing fine

>>580215885
This....
She was replying too fast to post constant caps so I continued with convo

Just rape her OP, she obviously wants it.

>>580215698
just post the rest of the conversation you fucking faggot

>>580215917
This so much

>>580215698
Get nudes op lets see this bitch

>>580215376
Your post gave me multiple orgasms.

>>580215950
what is this

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>>580215963
I'm gonna archive this shit.

>>580215840
exactly the kind of faggot that would do something like this

>>580215950
>>580215698

And tell her that " I always get like this when I think of you"

>>580215394
I'm more interested in what the sphincter says, huehue

>>580215950
MODS

>>580215885
>>580215876
>>580215867
>>580215917
Hivemind my ass

>>580215963
Tell her you always thought she was sexy and it always bothered you how all your friends wanted to fuck her. You were jealous although you never knew ot

Successful troll is successful.

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I'm confused, are you guys roleplaying some incest fantasy, or do you actually believe this to be legit?

>>580215757

It's a disease. A disease is something that keeps you from reproducing correctly. Having sexual thoughts about your mother means you want to reproduce with her, even if it's just lust. You instinctly know though that if you have kids with your mom, the kids will be retarded shitstains like OP that will be another parasite of the social system. So your mind basically overrides this and you still want to create retarded children.
I don't know how anybody that is more or less sane and balanced in his mind can deny the fact it's a disease.

>>580216210
That's what I'm saying.

>>580216226
>implying children born of first generation incest are any different to other children
>wut is geneticks

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It's real, but nobody talks about it. Incest is more common than you think, specially between cousins. In my case it was my perverted grandpa who started it all.

Second time with mom and sister:
>be 15 at a family birthday party, everyone at my uncles' because he bought a big inflatable pool.
> No beach or local pool nearby so everyone needed swimming clothing
>Cousin tagged along with me, mom and sister
> cousin is a tease, so she asks me which one will make her look sexy
> I was playing vidya so I ignored her
> she comes over and starts tapping my dick gently
>"You bad boy, I'll teach you not to ignore me." Taps my dick with her whole hand gently calling me names.
> Stops after mom walks by and she realizes what happened. Mom giggles.
> We go back to my uncles and go get dressed for the pool.
> My sister, now 11, was crying so mom took her into my uncles room.
>Go into said room to ask for my swimming trunks
> Find mom licking my sister's clit with one finger in her pussy.
> I take my trunks and leave, no fucks given.
> I go to my cousins room to change, I find her naked, we mess around.
> A little later I walk by my uncles room, fetching beer for my dad.
> I hear soft moaning coming from his room and peek inside.
> I find uncle fucking mom doggy style on his bathroom
> they stop, and mom comes over to me.
>"This is our family secret, like you and your cousin, okay love?"
> I say alright since I became aware that my uncle knows I'm fucking his daughter.

>>580216210
Why would anyone lie on the Internet?

>>580216226
Youre on 4chan stfu

Best suspense ever. Go for it dear Anon

OP POST THE ORIGINAL DICK PICTURE

>>580216226
first generation of inbreeding only has a slight chance of physical deformities, most common being crossed eyes. You need to get to the 3rd and 4th generation of inbreeding to actually start seeing real mutations

so shut up

>>580216210
Willful suspension of disbelief. Either it's real and HAWT, or it's fictitious and still pretty damn hot.

>>580216310
lol ur a faget

>>580216210
everyone ITT is too autistic and horny to realise that OP is bluffin'

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>>580216310

>>580215698

Fuckin' proud of you, Anon!

>>580216310
twist, its vagina and he texts his dad

>>580215394
A thing there is whose voice is one;
Whose feet are four and two and three.
So mutable a thing is none
That moves in earth or sky or sea.
When on most feet this thing doth go,
Its strength is weakest and its pace most slow.

>>580216226
Actually youre wrong, the first few generations of inbreeding dont tend to have any mutations, its once you get afew generations down the line that inbreeding becomes an issue.

He could breed with his mom and have perfectly fine children

>>580216226
Incest isn't guaranteed retardation.

I know a a married couple who are second cousins. They have a son and a daughter. Neither are retarded/disfigured

>>580216357
Who cares if he is? This shits entertaining!

>>580216368
Niceeee. Op, fuck me.

>>580216307

Jesus what a newfag. In the history of 4chan, incest thread were always hated. Why do you think people always bomb them with spider man?

>>580216341
what's hot? the messages she's sending? do you have fetish for words or something?

>>580216368
you could try to get a picture from her. You know, something along the lines of "well, you saw mine so its only fair" :)

>>580216284
Fake as fuck. Try again.

>>580216368
That's not impressive at all..

>>580216459
No its called fantasy, you fucking dip. Go be a troll elsewhere

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The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

>>580216459
Duh, words are communication of concepts, and an incest fetish is mainly conceptual. I don't wanna fuck my mother(though if I weren't an only child I'd probably wanna fuck my sister).

>>580216419
Anon asked if people thought it was legitimate.
Anyways, Entertainment is subjective.

>>580216415

Doesn't matter, your instincts still know it's wrong and that somewhere down the line some retarded fuck will use people's money to have his wheelchair paid for

>>580216417
your first cousin is far enough removed to ssafely breed. it's just illegal for some reason

>>580216532
>All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.

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>>580216440
>hated
You don't know a shit. Wincest threads are the best fap material ever produced on /b/

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>caring if its real when you're jerking it

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To the texting anon, you can do it. Post screen shots! Don't leave us in the dark please!


One of mom that I still jerk off to this day about, but first remember that I have one uncle, and one aunt.

>My uncle fucks my mom and my aunt, but for a few months he was in another state for god knows what.
>Aunt is unmarried, she has a bitch attitude but means well.
>Be 17, one Saturday morning
> Mom is cleaning the house, auntie is coming to visit this afternoon, dad is working.
> mom is cleaning the bathroom, wearing a small dress
> bends over to pick up soap, I walk by with the vacuum cleaner
> 8/10 ass for a woman approaching 50.
> haven't fucked cousin in a while, no gf yet, get hard on
> begin to vacuum next to the bathroom to see her ass and pussy in laced panties
> mom noticed hard on, so she bends over again showing me more ass
> Rock hard, sister now 15 walks by and taps my dick then goes into bathroom to give mom more soap
> sister lifts mom's skirt and says "wouldn't you like to fuck this ass?"
> Mom tells her to stop it since I'm not into that kind of thing
> dick diamonds, but true to cousin.
> A few hours later aunt arrives, pissed.


Continue?

>>580216368
>strong average length
>strong squeezing
>strong mangy trampy looking pubes

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>>580216532

>>580216338
That doesn't make his point any less true, dipshit.

POST PIC OF YOUR MOMMY NOW

>>580216368
OP you're fellow /b/ tards are losing focus! Take some damn screenshots and post them! We require constant input! And please don't skip parts of the conversation!

>>580216226
How incestial breeding works is that its a closed genetic pool. So your dominant genes get more dominant and your recessive genes get more recessive. So, it takes a couple generations for any sort of defects to occur. Its more a danger for people who live in closed gene pools then it is from direct incest (royal families, the amish, etc.)

anon requesting update!!

>>580216626
Always continue!

>>580216698
seconded

>>580216338
Don't tell me I'm the only one that fucking kek'd at "crossed eyes"

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>>580216626
Cont plz

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>>580216689
This. Also hang in there OP.

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>>580216626

> Mom and Aunt drink, aunt rants and gets drunk around 3pm
> Sister is in her room, I go out with friends to watch a movie
> come back around 6pm, hyped to tell sister of said movie
> open the door and hear moaning and vibrators going off
> quickly go check it out and I see my aunt eating my sister out and mom cleaning a strap on
> I watch from the sidelines what goes on for the next half an hour
> auntie link's sisters clit while mom tells sister to wet her plastic cock.
> sister rides mom's cock while auntie plays with vibrator watching the show
>"She started around 10, so an early bloomer like you and me."
>sister moans harder as aunt cums next to them
>"May I?" Says my aunt as she leans forward to their fucking
> Sister in ecstasy nods and aunt licks her clit as mom fucks my sister's pussy hole
>sister holds aunties' head as she cums hard
> I came hard too, wipe it real quick

To this day I still don't know why I didn't join in, this is one of my biggest regrets.

>>580216567
4 years ago and earlier this thread would be spammed to oblivion and back, possibly deleted. If you were lurking back then, you'd know. Not saying you weren't but it seems like

>>580216626
meant to ask- can't remember every one of your stories as I posted my own (guy with sister) but did your sister ever get some cock inside her?

>>580216368
How the fuck do you have ginger pubes when you apparently have black or dark brown hair? Fuck off faggot.

Fucking come on texting dude.

Shit went south, he's not coming back.

>>580216520
if it's called fantasy, why do you need op's retarded messages for? imagine the conversation as well

>>580216368
Bump OP I need an update

>>580216626
Top kek

>welcome to 70% of the usa

>>580216440
regardless of whether it was hated or liked, doesn't really matter now. As judging by the rapid responses to this thread you are outnumbered

>>580216814
Well then why does porn exist? You can just imagine two people fucking.

>>580216656
ok, lets take it this way
you wanna bang this bitch, but you know she cray
you do it anyway
oh must be a disease
Seriously, we are literally walking chemical reactions. Fuck off with your right and wrong bullshit.

>>580216745
>implying spiderman spammed only wincest

maybe anon scored and in excitement forgot this thread and later will be story.. i w ant to believe.

>>580216368
Your supposed 15yr old cock has more hair then a wildebeast.

Fake as fuck

>>580216809
Orrrrrr he's breaking speed limits to go fuck his mom and can't screenshot for a load of neckbeards.

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You're sister can always suck you off m8s. It's sad you neckbeards have to go as far to fuck your own relatives. What's next, animals?

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>>580216743

op, i am so close to a good fap, please dont leave us now

>>580216696

It doesn't really matter if the 1st generation or the 4th generation are parasitic shits that feed on tax money. Nature should instinctively hold you back of fucking your mum and ruining your family and children's genes

if you're not repulsed by it, you're what's wrong. I tried to stay neutral when talking about incest itself but it's nonetheless a disease

>>580216858
Of course someone who has a fucked head would try and justify fucking their mom. Go see a therapist.

>>580213558
SINGLE CHILDS IN THIS THREAD!

>>580216874
Pretty sure he is bullshitting, but that amount of pubes is average for a 15 year old.

>>580216745
the power of incestuous love has defeated fucking Spiderman twice this night. Remember that.

>>580216914
>Takin a shit

kek

>>580216914
Get your fucking ass there right now!

>>580216914
>i was takin a shit
#1 Mom

>>580216914
OP can we get a timestamp of you so we can silence some of the infidels infesting this?

>>580216914
>>I was taking a shit
classy mom you've got there

>>580216914
>I was takin a shit

.... all yours OP

>>580216914
Keep goingggggg

Send her a strokin vid

>>580216762
I have it too.

>>580216914
>I was takin a shit
fucking lol'd

>>580216914
Because it just kinda came up in text.